Guild Wars 2

Why can’t players knock enemy NPCs out of edges?
Why can enemy NPCs knock players out of edges?

I think the more ANet makes the mechanics equal between players and NPCs, the better the game will feel, less frustration, more intuitive gameplay.

If players get knocked out of edges and fall and take damage, I expect enemy NPCs should suffer the same consequences.

Regarding the possibility of “bugging” events due to friendly/enemy NPCs getting knocked off a cliff and dying from fall damage (or even surviving), said NPC would fade into the background shortly after starting to run back up, then fade in from the background already where he should be.

It’d be an immersive teleport, so to speak.

I agree. It’s really annoying when doing some vista’s. Just not fair that they can knock you off the ledge causing costs due to having to go to a waypoint but you can’t knock them off the same ledge.

I see your point but I can also see a lot of people complaining that they can’t loot one mob because they accidentally knocked it off the ledge and into an unreachable spot if it was possible.

If players could knock down (knock off) NPCs, it would most likely end up being abused. I can see before me several boss battles turning into “let’s push him down the cliff” events.

Besides, please name a game that has npc fall damage. I really couldn’t think of any.

Because players have much better spatial awareness (or should have), so otherwise this could be easily abused.

zogrim.6925:

Besides, please name a game that has npc fall damage. I really couldn’t think of any.

Star Wars the Old Republic

Yes, it’s a crappy game overall, but every game MMO so far has had something worth keeping for future games.
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Regarding abusing of NPCs, most “World Events” have immunity to knock back, like Stability.
That’s fine.
What I’m talking about is – for those who can be knocked back, why can’t they be fall and take damage?

ANet could implement a measure that when an NPC dies from falling, it’s perfectly normal.
If an enemy NPC causes a friendly NPC to die from fall damage, when you revive it, he would “run back and fade into the background”, and then “fade in from the background” where he belongs.

Nurvus.2891:

zogrim.6925:

Besides, please name a game that has npc fall damage. I really couldn’t think of any.

Star Wars the Old Republic

Yes, it’s a crappy game overall, but every game MMO so far has had something worth keeping for future games.

Thanks! I did not know that.

The answer to that is two fold.

If monsters couldn’t knock players off edge’s it would be immersion breaking to watch yourself hit an invisible wall.

If players could knock enemies off edges it would likely cause more bugs. (For example, knocking mobs down holes in SWToR used to bug regularly and you’d get mobs fighting you that you couldn’t hit and couldn’t get out of combat)

Nurvus.2891:

Why can’t players knock enemy NPCs out of edges?
Why can enemy NPCs knock players out of edges?

I think the more ANet makes the mechanics equal between players and NPCs, the better the game will feel, less frustration, more intuitive gameplay.

If players get knocked out of edges and fall and take damage, I expect enemy NPCs should suffer the same consequences.

Regarding the possibility of “bugging” events due to friendly/enemy NPCs getting knocked off a cliff and dying from fall damage (or even surviving), said NPC would fade into the background shortly after starting to run back up, then fade in from the background already where he should be.

It’d be an immersive teleport, so to speak.

I can’t +1 this enough. Agreed and /signed. SWTOR had the same problem, I’d knock down a mob (who is clearly weaker than my character so should be expected to die by falling) and it would not only live, but go right through the ground under me and attack! They should also get rid of the stupid “evade” and “invulnerability” crap since it mitigates any tactical positional advantage you may have over them (e.g., you can hit them but they can’t hit you).

Pants.8315:

The answer to that is two fold.

If monsters couldn’t knock players off edge’s it would be immersion breaking to watch yourself hit an invisible wall.

If players could knock enemies off edges it would likely cause more bugs. (For example, knocking mobs down holes in SWToR used to bug regularly and you’d get mobs fighting you that you couldn’t hit and couldn’t get out of combat)

1. You mean those invisible walls I already run into yet clip right through planks and other things I should reasonably be able to stand on?

2. Just let the mobs take falling damage.

3. Any mob that you tag and dies should be autolooted straight into inventory to avoid the unreachable mob problem.

Calavera.1086:

I see your point but I can also see a lot of people complaining that they can’t loot one mob because they accidentally knocked it off the ledge and into an unreachable spot if it was possible.

That’s just one option.

The other one is that players can’t get knocked off the ledges.

Let’s be honest here. I’ve never seen a game with so many ledges and structures without a railing or fencing around it. Any sane being would, but if people complain about immersion, just stick fences or walls along the edges. Trust me that’s more realistic as it is.

Edit: Also, in certain circumstances mobs could traverse normally unclimbable inclines and move at amazing speeds to reach the player far more conveniently than they should, and this should change, big time, in every game, because the player creates such a position and situation precisely to minimize the mobs’ convenience, and sometimes some spots are better to only pull one at a time to avoid more aggro than necessary so you could punch your way through the area while minimizing risks.

I don’t want this. Sorry.

It would turn boss battles that may have been challenging or at least fun at one point into a knockback contest. OR Anet would simply add stability to all bosses and/or make them immune to knockback.

In addition, this could be abused ridiculously. Pull 4 veterans to a cliff, dodge roll behind them, use fear, they fall and die, collect reward.

The invisible walls and boss buffs that would be added…nty

Vorch.2985:

I don’t want this. Sorry.

It would turn boss battles that may have been challenging or at least fun at one point into a knockback contest. OR Anet would simply add stability to all bosses and/or make them immune to knockback.

In addition, this could be abused ridiculously. Pull 4 veterans to a cliff, dodge roll behind them, use fear, they fall and die, collect reward.

The invisible walls and boss buffs that would be added…nty

And what about the other option where mobs can’t knock us off the edge either?

Pants.8315:

The answer to that is two fold.

If monsters couldn’t knock players off edge’s it would be immersion breaking to watch yourself hit an invisible wall.

If players could knock enemies off edges it would likely cause more bugs. (For example, knocking mobs down holes in SWToR used to bug regularly and you’d get mobs fighting you that you couldn’t hit and couldn’t get out of combat)

1. You mean those invisible walls I already run into yet clip right through planks and other things I should reasonably be able to stand on?

2. Just let the mobs take falling damage.

3. Any mob that you tag and dies should be autolooted straight into inventory to avoid the unreachable mob problem.

Agemnon.4608:

Pants.8315:

The answer to that is two fold.

If monsters couldn’t knock players off edge’s it would be immersion breaking to watch yourself hit an invisible wall.

If players could knock enemies off edges it would likely cause more bugs. (For example, knocking mobs down holes in SWToR used to bug regularly and you’d get mobs fighting you that you couldn’t hit and couldn’t get out of combat)

1. You mean those invisible walls I already run into yet clip right through planks and other things I should reasonably be able to stand on?

2. Just let the mobs take falling damage.

3. Any mob that you tag and dies should be autolooted straight into inventory to avoid the unreachable mob problem.

1. No I mean the artificial walls you hit in Guild Wars 1 when you run up to a cliff. Not invisible walls you run into when climbing places.

2/3. It wasn’t an issue with looting, or the falling damage. It was when the mob got stuck somewhere unreachable to the player and kept you continually in combat.

As much as it would be fun to knock mobs off of high places, I think it would cause more problems than you are considering. Leap skills for example, players knocking skill point NPC’s off of edges. etc etc. You’d have to go around making separate rules for separate enemies. What if during an event somebody knocks all the mobs off the side, this trivializes the entire event.

It might sound simple, but in reality it would be more of a hindrance than something fun.

this is extremely annoying, and DEADLY. especially on jumping puzzles.

another issue is leap skills (or other skills that move you) that can get you thrown off cliffs.

give us combat safety against leaps and knockbacks. a D/D thief loses half of his skills (usually the most important ones in PvE) whenever he’s fighting in a tight environment, because using them could mean you throw yourself off a cliff, and you either die, or you stay stuck in combat forever.

the solution is simple: skills can’t let you fall, but walking/jumping can. apply the same restriction shadowsteps and teleports have to all skills (and to rolling).

At least make enemies unable to knock you off cliffs as well.
Jump? Sure.
Knocked off? No.
Feared off? No.

yesterday i got knocked off a cliff that was at least 3 times higher than the deadly treshold. there wasn’t even a tell, and not that i could do much about it, the passage was so narrow i couldn’t even roll out of the way.