Guild Wars 2

“poll” because to most people magic find is just ruining this game, I’ve never ever used it to boost my drops because I didn’t care rly about them and felt it’d be a lil broken and backfire-ish to my performances.

SO post a yes or no if you want to change magic find into something new (and then describe that “something new” you’d like to see).

I’ll start first

-Yes

-The only thing I came up with would be cooldown on all skills reduced by X% where X is half the magic find we got atm (or even a third ‘coz some traits could cut down some imba skills, lez keep some balance), also keep in mind magic find isn’t part of pvp so pve-wise it shouldn’t be too game-breaking.

What do you guys think?

We don’t even know how Magic Find works in the first place, it seems premature to rethink it.

Still I think that just knowing a stat would somehow boost your drops… makes you feel you wanna stack some now ain’t it? for what? I feel like it’s just wrong… anyway we could come up with so many ideas devs might decide to change it to something actually useful gameplay-wise, plus it’s fun to think about it. =D

I vote to get rid of it all together, not change it into something else.

Yes
Because of magic find people walk around with no toughness and some even go to dungeons with it on. It was a terrible idea from the start and it would do the game a favor to get rid of it. (im not even sure magic find works anyway) Magic find only benefits the guy who has it on and NO ONE else, isn’t this game meant to be about teamwork and supporting each other?

Anyway i would like to see a cond/duration and con/damage reducing stat called “hardiness” or something, maxing this stat out would only reduce condition times by about 25% and condition damage by about 20%. Change the name of the explorer armor to something hardy.

I vote it gets taken off too, even if my magic find sets become useless and need replacing.

Sef.6918:

Anyway i would like to see a cond/duration and con/damage reducing stat called “hardiness” or something, maxing this stat out would only reduce condition times by about 25% and condition damage by about 20%.

I quite like the sound of that.

Rather than Magic Find as a passive stat, why not make it an activity somehow?

Or as a mechanic for a new crafting profession who can find the hidden value / magickal properties of items?

Get rid of it.

Tired of people in magic find only gear ruining dungeon runs for the rest of us cause they drop like flies.

Or they want to pull unnecessary mobs and get us involved so they can “hopefully” get a drop…

I don’t see how it would be considered broken. Its not like your chances of finding an item are X% out of 100.

Sef.6918:

isn’t this game meant to be about teamwork and supporting each other?

Not really, it’s about that you should be equally viable in a group,
no matter your choice of proffession and/or not rely on the holy trinity system.

People are actually stacking magic-find? That’s hilarious.

I don’t mind people wiping occasionally. It’s part of the experience. Even when people are stupid, it only takes 2 or 3 tries to get it done.

Don’t see the point in stacking magic-find.

Eating a food item for the extra drop-rate is nice for making pocket change, but anything you can find off a mob, you can probably buy (or buy something equivalent in stats) from LATC with enough gold.

I think you guys are overreacting.

I don’t think it should be removed, but having a full set of magic-find gear is clearly making people deadweight.

I could see making magic-find stats (on gear) unstackable, so the rest of your equips have to have normal “useful” stats.

“I could see making magic-find stats (on gear) unstackable, so the rest of your equips have to have normal “useful” stats.”

At which point why not just remove it completely?

GADefence.5634:

“I could see making magic-find stats (on gear) unstackable, so the rest of your equips have to have normal “useful” stats.”

At which point why not just remove it completely?

Because this is a discussion about a feature entirely PvE. Last I checked, people are allowed to screw around in PvE.

Magic-Find is just another way of making PvE fun.

If you want to get super-serious, get your kitten into WvW and fight for your server like real manly men.

I’d keep MF, people that are dying because they run it will quickly lose money through armor repairs.

I recently ran AC story with 3 other 30-40 lvl characters. The one lvl 80 character was running MF, to no suprise he also died the most, was the most selfish behaving player (he wouldn’t res or use party wide benefit skills), and pretty much just sucked as a player. It was slightly agrivating, but it was a clear sign that I need to stay away from this type of player, so it was also a learning expierence for me.

On the other hand removing MF means that skilled players that survive while running it limits there selection.

To sum my point up; let players run it if they want to, many of these players will find out its not worth the risk therefore theyll switch it out. And if you’re having trouble with anything, like finding a dungeon group, join a helpful guild.

Keep it. Sometimes I just run around the map killing things randomly. It’s about the most unproductive thing you can do in the game. MF at least gives me the illusion that I’m getting something out of it. I like my happy little bubble world.

Lord Aargadon.4135:

I’d keep MF, people that are dying because they run it will quickly lose money through armor repairs.

I recently ran AC story with 3 other 30-40 lvl characters. The one lvl 80 character was running MF, to no suprise he also died the most

I already got a dungeon motto out of that.

‘Level is not indicative of skill’

I’ve met level80s who haven’t even run dungeons yet. This game as all about experience.
If they haven’t done it before, it can be presumed that they will perform poorly for the first few fights.

I really do love your view about WvW Dream (I wish many more played it) and thanks for refering to my post, but how do you view MF in armor sets and as an attribute?

Yes. I’d prefer it “partially removed.”

Not necessary, if “contribution” is also factored in magic find rate.

Let’s say 5 persons do a dungeon run. One of them contributes less than 10% (half of the average). His “external” magic find rate shall be reset to 0.

Similarly, in terms of tagging mobs in group activities (percentages are just given as an example)
10%: got exp and loot
20%: got external MF in full effect

When one is soloing, Duo-ing, or 5-man partying, this rule is less likely to occur to him.

If one has better skills and better gears, he can make sure his contribution is on par with his teammates and he can make his MF effective. He deserves it.

“Magic-Find is just another way of making PvE fun.

If you want to get super-serious, get your kitten into WvW and fight for your server like real manly men."

Magic find is derivative, unoriginal, boring, idioctic, potentially not working and just aggravatingly “pick this or get no loot” inducing. That is not fun. That is stupid.

You want fun, how about a rune of the felled doylak that makes a doylak drop from the skies on your enemies as a small % chance on hit? That’d actually be fun. (potentially) Bigger loot is more a way of forcing everyone to play one way. “Rares only handed to people who play while holding one hand int he air!” would get panned, so should this.

Also, by real manly men I assume you mean real unemploye kids forming gank parties. Manly. (real manly men go sPvP)

“I recently ran AC story with 3 other 30-40 lvl characters. The one lvl 80 character was running MF, to no suprise he also died the most, was the most selfish behaving player (he wouldn’t res or use party wide benefit skills), and pretty much just sucked as a player.”

My guild runs full MF sets ranging from exotic (me) to blues (el cheapo members), we basically do full dungeon clears on pretty close to all dungeons without a problem. I think the “he sucked” potion of you saying he sucked it why he sucked.

Magic Find is counter to pretty much every cooperative aspect of GW2.
If you exclude the part where 5 players deliberately run a dungeon in MF gear, in order to get more loot/challenge, every other situation involves a bunch of players being penalized because of a few who are wearing MF gear and thus contributing considerably less to what they are doing – whether this is WvWvW, World Events and whatnot.

Bad players and good players are still the same kind of players whether they use MF gear or not.
The characters, however, aren’t the same if they wear MF gear.
The players controlling them won’t produce the same results either.

My suggestion is to simply make Magic Find either:
a) an EXTRA stat on gear, obtained with more difficulty than currently
OR
b) something you “unlock” for your character, a little like the Paragon System in D3, rewarding veteran players, retroactively obtained through some achievements and whatnot.

As for Dungeon Challenge, you could change how low the game “downlevels” you, or grant a buff to the enemies, or simply have different difficulty modes within the existing modes.

This will also give established players an edge over bots.

“a) an EXTRA stat on gear, obtained with more difficulty than currently”

You know, trying MF to a third item that gives you bonus MF or gold find (scavanger runes exist) would be acceptable.

MF is a downright kitten attribute. Simple as that. It’s great as a food buff maybe but it doesn’t work for gear, period. The result of it is that you’re always teaming up with greedy kitten people (80% of the mmo playerbase i’d guess) packed up with with MF while lacking important stats. Just please take it out of gear already.

Because this is a discussion about a feature entirely PvE. Last I checked, people are allowed to screw around in PvE.
Magic-Find is just another way of making PvE fun.
If you want to get super-serious, get your kitten into WvW and fight for your server like real manly men.

Exactly, i dont see how using a trait thats in every other game is a bad thing, so what if it doesn’t promote teamwork, so what if you arent as strong as other people, and who cares if that’s how other people want to play. Boo hoo hoo, if you don’t like it don’t use it, there are ways to increase MF other then armor and weapons use food or a weapon sigil if you feel at a disadvantage. I don’t see how this is even a valid argument i understand its just a “suggestion” but seriously, who cares if that guy over there does less damage then you that’s his choice to do so and he shouldn’t be punished for wanting to get better gear without spending 3g for a fancy shirt.

“Exactly, i dont see how using a trait thats in every other game is a bad thing, so what if it doesn’t promote teamwork, so what if you arent as strong as other people, and who cares if that’s how other people want to play. Boo hoo hoo, if you don’t like it don’t use it, there are ways to increase MF other then armor and weapons use food or a weapon sigil if you feel at a disadvantage. I don’t see how this is even a valid argument i understand its just a “suggestion” but seriously, who cares if that guy over there does less damage then you that’s his choice to do so and he shouldn’t be punished for wanting to get better gear without spending 3g for a fancy shirt.”

I really don’t think you’re understanding the argument. Also, you’re not uderstanding magic find, and that’s a guarantee.

People who stack magic find don’t stack 50% from a buff or just 15% from a sigil, they stack it all – armour, weapons, sigil, jewels, etc.

The issue is not that “you’re weaker”, I could be cheap and wear blues and still do well. The issue is that you are 100% FORCED to wear this stuff because you want good loot. It’s like if the game had an option to make everyone hot pink 100% of the time, and gave you 500% more loot for it. Sure, you CAN turn it off if you don’t like hot pink, but everyone who’s not kitten really stubborn will have it on for bonus loot. This lack of choice is the issue. “But you don’t have to wear it if you don’t want to !!!!!!!111!!!1oneoneone” might as well be “But you can run a dungeon and NOT open any chest, then it’ll feel more epic since the loot mechanic isn’t there!” Sure you can but it’s kitten The only difference is not opening chests is 100% kitten while not wearing magic find is just ineffecient enough to make you feel kitten

I would agree on remove it from items and upgrades but leave it in foods or potions.
Or maybe do something a little different, that would work a little like karma (not the game kind karma but more like the actual indian religious karma).
For instance, something that everytime you help somebody or do a DE you get a 1% magic find, and everytime you pass on helping you lose some % too…in the end good things happen to those who do good things or something like that.

Definately dont remove it, but it needs a change. I also agree its broken…I went to orr for an hour on my necro with 80% magic find, i got 2 blues and thats the only rareish thing i got. today i took my guilds 10% magic find on warrior when i was leveling, and i got friggin 5 blues 4 dyes 2 masterwork in 20minutes…So yeah, In the end whatever Anet does, its going to be about persons own luck….Long as they wont make it so you get a rare every 100kill and with 100% magic find it becomes 50kill….that’d be plain funbreaker.

Eh, I don’t mind it.

Honestly, the arguments for it are pretty weak:

People go in with no toughness – People do that without Magic Find gear. If that’s your argument, then all glass cannons should be banned from the game.

People are less effective – Barely. Exotic MF gear may not be ‘the best’ for DPS or whatever, but it doesn’t affect performance that badly.

You -have- to have it to get good loot – Not particularly. Studies on it (Yay reddit) have shown its affect is touch and go. It’s not like 100% magic find doubles the money you make.

It’s a waste – Obviously not, or people wouldn’t be wearing it.

People are greedy – b->_>-b Real mature argument there.

It’s a kitten mechanic and ANet is kitten for allowing it – Okay, we’re done now.

If you don’t like it, don’t wear it. It’s really that simple. You don’t -need- to wear it to make money. If you say you do, it’s because you think you do, not that you need to.

If they made it another slot purely for MF, everyone would just walk around with the best item in it. Which would be an awesome gold sink, but would still run in to the same problem. You “have” to use it.

Lord Aargadon.4135:

I really do love your view about WvW Dream (I wish many more played it) and thanks for refering to my post, but how do you view MF in armor sets and as an attribute?

I already posted that. (You’ve only noticed 2/3 of the posts I’ve made on here)

I think this thread is overreacting. It’s just PvE, magic-find is fine.

GADefence.5634:

Magic find is derivative, unoriginal, boring, idioctic, potentially not working and just aggravatingly “pick this or get no loot” inducing. That is not fun. That is stupid.

Invalid statement.

“Fun” is subjective. You’re trying to impose your fun as the only “right” way to have fun. Which is total kittencrap.

I only said it was one way of making PvE fun. You don’t have to agree, but that does not make it unfun for other people.

If enough other people find it fun (and clearly, a substantial amount do, because there’s a thread complaining about it), that’s enough justification for its existence.

Your disapproval bears no weight on this node of the discussion. And Nelson says “Ha ha.”

Doesn’t matter one way or the other to me. I figure the devs have more important fish to fry than worrying about magic find right now.

“Invalid statement.

“Fun” is subjective. You’re imposing your sense of fun onto others.

I only said it was a way of making PvE fun. You don’t have to agree, but that does not make it wrong for other people."

Forcing you to do something for something else is generally not considered fun (I say generally as there always are exceptions – ex: Liking your job, but it’s not a commonality).

“I want loot and I want to be effective – but I have to give one up for the other.” isn’t smart. “Man I’d love a harger challenge with more loot but the closest thing I can get is by reducing my survivability with this rune set and hoping I actually get more loot” is not fun. “I’d like to try out the cleric’s armour to see what it does but then my drop rate will probably become nill” is not freedom of choice.

My statement is not invalid. If the game forced everyone to wear hot pink for a drop rate increase, everyone would wear hot pink. The people who like hot pink who say they can choose NOT to wear hotpink, and everyone else would complain.

That’s not true GAD.

Primarily because there are non-MF players out there. Quite a few of them.

Just because some that really care about always getting the most out of their drops would doesn’t mean everyone would.

guys don’t turn this suggestion topic into a general discussion one, keep it constructive and “suggestion”-ish so, at least, give some kind of suggestion instead of a dumb “get rid of it entirely” that’s just… lame-.-’….

I made a suggestion.

Make magic-find unstackable on equips. And possibly increase them individually, to make up for it.
Then people can have some of it, without completely gearing down their other stats.

GADefence.5634:

My statement is not invalid. If the game forced everyone to wear hot pink for a drop rate increase, everyone would wear hot pink. The people who like hot pink who say they can choose NOT to wear hotpink, and everyone else would complain.

Strawman arguments are invalid too.

Wearing hot-pink to increase drop rate is incomparably exaggerated to what’s being discussed here.

Magic-find isn’t required because increasing drop-rate isn’t required.
Anything you can find off a mob, you can probably buy with gold, or find something entirely equivalent.

You just dug yourself into a deeper ditch, buddy.

Just rip off Diablo 3 a little bit…

Get rid of MF as a stat on gear

Keep MF Boon foods, boosts and what not

Make non-dungeon Champs and World Bosses (Dynamic events or what not) give you X% MF for X amount of time after killing them. Stacking up to X% and X amount of time. After killing the Mob, you can not gain anymore MF off that mob for one hour. (So people dont just sit and kill the same thing over and over)

This would not only allow people to keep their MF with out choosing it over another stat but also encourage higher levels to venture into lower level areas.

To keep higher levels from achieving this too easily… make it so that the bigger the level gap between the player and the mob means less % MF boon applied. (I know were all “scaled” but you can’t deny that you can go back and solo stuff you couldn’t when you were actually leveling in that area.)

Level req, Can not gain MF til level 30

Just like events, if you do not do your part then you will receive less MF %.

The MF Champ Boon will last through death at the cost of 10% time reduction of the remaining time on the Boon.

The MF Boon can be taken into Dungeons with you.

The MF Boon will stay on you for up to one hour after logging out (so that people that get D/C a lot don’t get punished for having a crap ISP)

Azaziel.3608:

I would agree on remove it from items and upgrades but leave it in foods or potions.
Or maybe do something a little different, that would work a little like karma (not the game kind karma but more like the actual indian religious karma).
For instance, something that everytime you help somebody or do a DE you get a 1% magic find, and everytime you pass on helping you lose some % too…in the end good things happen to those who do good things or something like that.

I kind of like this idea.

The more you helped other people, the more MF you should get or stack. This may include killing a SP that you already have, killing the champion guarding a vista you’ve already had. When you rezz someone in a rather less populated area, you got more MF. You don’t get MF by rezzing in a crowded group or in dynamic events where people keep dying.

People can get MF during the time they party with

(1) “one or two” new player (which means, one among those you never partied with before, or at least not within one week time),

(2) “one or two” lower level player, say 2/3 of your levels,

(3) “one or two” players in an area that the players haven’t done but you have already completed the Map, etc.

People will not get MF by forming a full party with those you party everyday.

People can win MF from wining a renown heart, completing a map, finishing a puzzle achievements, reaching their Daily achievement.

People can also win MF by 1-2-3 manning a champion, soloing a dynamic event with veteran boss(es), 1-2-3-4-manning a dungeon, etc, but they won’t get additional MF by tagging in the events that were already crowded with people.

People can buy MF with Karma. Or another MF salvage kit that transforms items into MF stacks. The rarer the items, the higher MF % stacks. Items include crafting stuffs, jewelries, gears and every loot. The upgraded component embedded in a weapon/armour counts as well. The salvaged items/gears disappeared totally without turning into any crafting materials.

would be nice for areanet to explain their ingame system b4 sending it out. Is it drop quality or chance? The 50g question…

Nerf the percentage to 1/5 of current stats but make it “Increase Magic Find for you and your party members”. Then at least they contribute to the group.

Magic Find works as it should. You don’t like it, then don’t use it. Either way, you shouldn’t have the right to dictate what other players choose to do.

This game was sort of inspired by the idea that anyone could choose any kind of skills/gear etc. and still get a goal accomplished. So don’t go beckoning Anets efforts just because you got some ants in your pants.

By the way, you do have a choice to be more stringent about your gameplay style, but segregating people because they don’t follow suit does kinda defeat the purpose of the game.

They wouldn’t put it in the game if it didn’t work, they simulate millions of times to test.
However, almost everyone uses it, which in turn makes everyone weaker and punishes team players who don’t use it.