Guild Wars 2

I really like good/evil themes, so its natural I’m deciding between a necro and a guardian. Guardians are like shining beacons of goodness ( I mean, their magic is BLUE! ), and Necromancers SHOULD be masters of darkness, evil, and terror.
I just have a hard time seeing it. I’m no fan of horror games or movies, but I know that one thing that makes a good horror game/movie is that you don’t know exactly what is attacking/chasing/…..ing you.
Not that Guild Wars 2 should be a horror game, but I feel that the “Evil” class should feel a bit more evil. The minions made of flesh and bone makes me think someone had a horrible kitchen accident rather than conjured them from the grave. I mean, what corpse actually looks like that?
The shadow fiend is kindof appealing, but it still doesn’t feel evil. If it looked a bit more dark, or was shaped a bit more hideously, then that would feel better in my opinion. Which is more intimidating to your enemies? A giant, hunk of meat charges at you in the forest and you think, “Oh god, I’ll never get that smell off my armor.” Or you’re in a dark forest alone, when suddenly tendrils of shadow shoot up from the ground and choke the life out of you.
And the lich form might look cool, but it doesn’t feel intimidating either. You’re basically a giant glowstick that shoots hands at your enemies. It could instead swath you in dark robes, making you look more like a reaper, or shadows could partially envelop you, making you look like you were possessed by spirits from another realm clawing their way into our own.
The necromancers need a graphical overhaul, or at least a color overhaul. Green doesn’t feel very evil, black does.

Unless ANet gives us the option to play Nightmare Court and other “evil” factions, it makes no sense whatsoever for a profession to feel “evil”.

Ruthless? Sure.
Evil? No.

I do miss the GW1 Necromancer animations, in particular the long cast animation (hovering in the air arched back)

Well, by definition Necros in GW2 are not evil, so I don’t get why they should feel like they were.

If you look at the recent blog, the devs want all the player characters to be heroes. They design the story and the world from that assumption. Nothing stops you from RPing things darker, of course, but they have specifically asserted that necromancy is not inherently evil in Tyria, just another use of magic.

But necro’s spells are black…they are evil…

Ok maybe I should rephrase that. A person could use Necromancy and still be a hero, but it is Black Magic. By nature we look at that magic being used for evil and grotesque things, such as corpse reanimation.
While necromancers themselves may not be inherently evil, their magic is. They summon dark and twisted magic into the world to accomplish their goals and their magic should be just that in game, dark and twisted, not green and flashy.
If I go onto the battlefield as a hero, it doesn’t mean I have to fight with a spatula or a rainbow-colored flail just because the sword is seen as a weapon of violence.

A spell or class can’t be “evil” or “good” because morality is decided by how you act. The class has a dark tone to it, but it is far from an evil class.

If I sacrifice a baby to the lords of the underworld to save a town of people, it doesn’t matter how good my intentions are, that magic is evil. I just think necromancer spells should reflect their nature more. If we can agree that Necromancy is “Black Magic”, then shouldn’t the spells themselves be more black?

Blood Fiend = Wind Rider

Bone Fiend = Devourer

Flesh Wurm = I shouldn’t have to say

Bone Minion/Jagged Horror = Rats/baby skritt (they look very similar to me)

Shadow Fiend = Random summoned Spirit

Flesh Golem = An abomination, although i’ve heard the argument it’s a dredge, i personally think it’s just a bunch of corpses thrown together.

Those are what each thing is, just so ya know… personally i miss the OLD minions from GW1 those looked more horror esc, however i totally feel like necros are of the darker side, just listen to some of the things they say while using abilities and you’ll know what i mean…

Well necromancers mostly were on the chatoic evil side sometimes stepping into some weird limbo between lawful evil (khilbron while on “our” side/most necro trainers) or chaotic good (Eve, Master of Whispers).

The coloration for Necromancy is fine. The spells vary from Black and Green to Black and Red, some with touches of White or Purple… mostly the Green spells are in connection with poisons, while the Red spells are Blood.

While I’d love to see the Minions overhauled (Golem excluded), I don’t see much of a need for the spells to be altered in any graphical manner. Perhaps inhancing them later down the road, but thats not nessisary by any means.

As for looking “evil” or not… The only skills in the Necro set that don’t give off an evil esque aura are the minions… Especially Bone Minions… They should give them back the old skeletal structure with little or no flesh. Or perhaps make the flesh look more rotted… just so they don’t seem like animated turkey dinners

Durzlla.6295:

Blood Fiend = Wind Rider

Bone Fiend = Devourer

Flesh Wurm = I shouldn’t have to say

Bone Minion/Jagged Horror = Rats/baby skritt (they look very similar to me)

Shadow Fiend = Random summoned Spirit

Flesh Golem = An abomination, although i’ve heard the argument it’s a dredge, i personally think it’s just a bunch of corpses thrown together.

I actually think the Flesh Golem is a Charr. He does make the same sounds as one.

As for all the green, well it’s the profession’s theme colour. I do agree that the minions look too cute, the flesh is too fresh as well.

That’s one of the reasons I decided not to play Necromancer in this game. I’ve always like “dark”, “rotten” classes in other games but after playing a Necro in the beta I got the same feeling as you. It didn’t feel “dark” and “evil” at all.. and the pets…I hated them, I didn’t like a single one of them.. But I’m also happy because now I get to play Engineer and I love it :P

In terms of Lore, Necromancers are not by default “evil”. It’s a valid type of magic that just exists in the world. In GW1, one of the types of skills that Necros had involved sacrificing their own health to access powerful healing skills which could benefit allies as well as themselves. The magic itself is considered a natural, neutral thing.

Does Necromancy have a tendency to attract more than an average number of creepy, evil types? Well, yes. Yes it does. And it also creeps people out in its normal usage because of the whole “raising the dead” thing. But it is acknowledged by most people as an acceptable branch of magic to be schooled in, even if it’s kinda weird, and in GW1 there were regulations and Necromancers kept an eye on each other to keep themselves in line. One GW1 quest involves hunting down a rogue Necromancer and putting an end to it. The quest is given by another Necromancer.

In short, Necromancers have a higher than usual tendency to attract or be perceived as creepy/evil types. But the school of magic is not in and of itself evil. I actually think that it’s a nice change – it’s quite dull for it to always be the same “evil” thing that limits how you want to perceive your character.

Not to be rude but…

I swear you people need to look at necromancy on both sides rather than just believing that it is evil because all our time in life we have been raised to see necromancy as something only “evil” people would us.

Take a look at the other side of necromancy for once in your life than the usually “oh necromancy is pure evil” stuff we’ve been raised to believe.

Necromancers are not bound to being only evil. They can also be good too. Necromancy allows them to learn a lot about living beings biology which is how they know how to control undead minions and why they have a understanding of many creatures biology. Those biology knowledge necromancers learn and have are also sometime used as medical knowledge to help treat diseases or abnormal symptoms in people.

Ya they can use diseases and abnormal symptoms as attacks but it their way of fighting. To use what you learn and know is part of combat and for necromancers the knowledge of biology for undead minions and medical knowledge with disease is what they use.

What’s not evil about a 9 foot tall cheerleader that has a few skinless pets?

But yeah seriously, we need some outfits that don’t make me look like a little school girl.
Skirt or Dress ? pick one. Where are my pants with spikes, bone accessories, accents of BLOOD, etc. ???

I loved the necro armors from gw1, in gw2 the creepiest I can have is the ‘goat helmet’ and pretend that I don’t really see the skirt/dress. Don’t get me wrong, I like some of the dresses and overall matched outfits, but if I am even considering doing any role-playing as a necro I’m pretty much screwed unless I purchase the ‘Profane’ armor skin off the GS which is just a latex body suit that still doesn’t really convey “I eat souls and life force and love to make you bleed to death while simultaneously freezing to death”.

I’m sure some of the thieves would like some spike outfits like the assassin of gw1 as well. I just want some more ‘evil’ looking outfits. As it is, GW2 outfits are a little too much ‘little girl with self-esteem issues trying to anger daddy’. What happened to the fantasy part of the game? Is it too close to present time to have fantastical armors and outfits? Did Tyria get too commercialized already? Hook me up with some steam punk and dark grunge stuff – steam punk + asura = awesome

To comment about all the the ‘friendly necromancer’ people, you have plenty of those types of outfits, those of us who choose to have a more dark arts type of necromancer have to wear the same cheerleader outfits you do and that, for us, sucks.
The default for necromancers in gw2 is the nice type of necromancer, we are simply asking for some dark arts lingerie/outerwear for ours, something that conveys the ‘I want to make you bleed while siphoning your life force and then make your corpse fight for me’.

Necros in GW2 are actually just Golemancers that use expired flesh and bone. Nothing to hide.

SilverRule.7426:

Ok maybe I should rephrase that. A person could use Necromancy and still be a hero, but it is Black Magic. By nature we look at that magic being used for evil and grotesque things, such as corpse reanimation.

Well … no. You might think necromancy is evil, but in fact it’s neutral. People can do evil things with necromancy, but that doesn’t make necromancy evil. Come on, bunnies e.g. are not evil just cause you could do some evil things with them.

While necromancers themselves may not be inherently evil, their magic is. They summon dark and twisted magic into the world to accomplish their goals and their magic should be just that in game, dark and twisted, not green and flashy.

And once again, in GuildWars necromancy is neither twisted nor dark, it’s just as neutral as a guradians magic or a priests blessings.

If I sacrifice a baby to the lords of the underworld to save a town of people, it doesn’t matter how good my intentions are, that magic is evil.

No. By accepted opinion you would be evil cause you sacrificed a baby. The magic is still neutral and there would even be a lot of people which won’t think that you are evil cause you just sacrificed one life in order to safe thousands/millions.

I just think necromancer spells should reflect their nature more. If we can agree that Necromancy is “Black Magic”, then shouldn’t the spells themselves be more black?

I don’t agree on that. In GW necromancy is not “Black Magic”.

Voice acting is kinda dissapointing though
My buff Charr Guardian talks like a menace to everyone including himself while my really dark-tree-bark and green-glowing Sylvari Necromancer has the voice of an angel ^^

while i certainly think the necromancer is a fun and decent class, i agree that they don’t feel ‘necromancer’ enough to my liking. I think that most people who have played White wolf’s Vampire the masquerade will agree that the GW2 necromancer feels more like a Tzimische Vivisectionist flesh and bone crafter than like what i’ve come to expect from a Raise-the-Dead-and-enslaves-spirits Necromancer and the main reason for that is the pets.

i want undead pets that look like they came from the grave, not like a butcher-on-acid-bodge.

And yes, this is mostly a visual gripe.

Same with the Thief class. I want to be a Thief thinking the story would reflect that. But instead, I seem to be some kind of a hero.

necros being people who study life and lifeforces and how to bring back things from the dead.. I think the most fitting clothing would be a white mantle and a stethoscope.

necromancy isn’t evil, the color black isn’t evil. it’s just a different art from illusions and elemental control. studying dead stuff might be a bit creepy, but if its done ethically (as doctors would), it surely isn’t evil.

in our universe, anything that had something to do with magic was inherently evil and seen as a gift from the devil, but you don’t seem to apply the same standards to ele and mesmer – you really shouldn’t try to apply things from our world to the gw world.
in the gw universe, magic apparently is a tool used by many without any morality attached.

I even think the necro looks to dark in gw, as he’s as ‘good’ as any other class. I tell myself that studying dead stuff all the time instead of enjoying a moot with the other kids just made them emo or goth and that’s why they look so gloomy all the time.

I think the problem is that people in real life associate anything with death and it’s ‘uses’ as evil and I understand why people do that but that’s not a debate for these forums. In Tyria however it’s not considered evil.

Maybe they just consider death as valuable and real as the forces of life. Not as a separate thing that should be frowned upon and be shocked by for being used but just a part of the cycle of life. I mean you are confronted with a lot of ghosts, zombies and demons this suggests that there is a afterlife world in Tyria so it makes sense that it has some powers.

I don’t believe death and using it’s abilities is inherently evil but rather the person using them and the reasoning behind them. As a Necro in GW2 you’re using your powers to do good.

Just imagine if you had such powers in real life and you are a good person, you then have the opportunity to safe a life with it. Does that make you evil for using powers to raise flesh/bones? I don’t think so.

So yes, Necromancers are not meant to feel or be evil. The colours black and green are merely associated with death and gives the profession the vibe it needs. To us it would’ve been weird if the colours had been pink, white and sparkly.

Here’s an important point that I haven’t seen brought up yet.

For those of you who are arguing that the necro should feel evil because death magic is evil: not in Guild Wars it isn’t.

Consider that of the six human gods, one of them is Grenth, god of death, the Underworld, and winter. He’s viewed as completely equal to the other gods and not evil in the slightest. In fact he deposed the previous god of death, Dhuum, because Dhuum actually was evil and torturing the spirits of the deceased, and Grenth was not OK with that.

Now in that context, when death magic / necromancy is essentially channelling the power of Grenth, please explain to me why necromancy should be evil in the Guild Wars universe.

I was certain a necro would be my first choice for Guild Wars 2 after having one as my main in Guild Wars 1 but after getting a hold of a beta and starting up the game i saw the first minion and well, it put me off. I have tried to play the class but never got into it, i have no problem with the topic of the post, i dont care if my character seems evil or not but conjuring life from dead tissue should result in more… Twisted minions, right now the hovering crap which sacrifices for a heal is more of a meat baloon then an actual entity under the necromancers control. I dont know too much about the other minions but none of them has made me go, “Oh kitten thats awesome!”.

Necromancers , calling on the spirits of the dead, and even death itself, to overpower enemies and assist allies. In sacrificing Health and taking curses and diseases upon themselves, they can deal large amounts of damage to those foolish enough to oppose them. Dead and dying enemies become unwilling allies in their hands. Necromancers have the singular ability to absorb Energy from an enemy’s death, and can raise a fighting force from the corpses of their foes. Curses, which often cost the Necromancer dearly, exact an even greater toll from enemies, who find that their Enchantments and healing skills are rendered useless. Due to the sacrificial nature of their methods, Necromancers must practice patience and self-discipline to survive.

Necromancers in the Guild Wars world don’t share the same pseudo-gothic countenance as other games. It’s openly received as another form of magic in Tyria and is studied openly as is mesmerism, elementalism etc. Harnessing the power of blood and bone to create minions, to create curses and wells of power are no different to an elementalist binding an elemental to their will using reagents, or Ritualists harnessing the power of ancestral remains and ashes to manifest spirits from the mists to aid them. Necromatic arts have just as much healing capabilities as denial hexes. As for being an ‘evil’ class? Intent is what determines alignment.

Colour wise I think the choices are fine since the introduction of the other races, though they are wrong in regards to humans in Tyria as Grenth is the Deity of Ice and Death and embodies the Season of the Colossus “Winter”. The colours should be more along the lines of whites, blues and black.

What makes taking down a target with a fire spell or sword swipe less evil than using a disease or life steal?

I agree that Necromancy in GW2 is viewed differently than in other titles of the genre. This isn’t necessarily bad. It is an interesting way to play this usually shadowy and ‘dark’ class. I would like some gear skins more akin to the theme of Necromancy though.

^^ I think at the moment, alot of players have the same issue with all classes sharing the same armor. There is no class specific armor in the game, as someone who played GW1 alot it was kind of strange for myself to see the same armor shared by all classes as in GW1 you would have variants for each class. e.g. Primeval Armor was available to all classes, but they all looked vastly different on each particular class, there was no light/medium/heavy armor, it was all class specific. I think if they added a range of class specifics on top of what we already have, it could fill in a hole that’s appearing with diversity in characters, If I goto Lions Arch I couldn’t tell you of the light armor users who was a mesmer, elementalist or necromancer, unless I actually selected them, being able to make yourself unique looking on top of portraying your class is something that does need to be addressed.

I was disappointed when they said all characters will be good heroes. But hey, what can i do? This is MMO not a +A RPG game,

Look at Dungeons and Dragons for inspiration. After all a lot of RPG video game concepts stem from it’s rules and concepts. In it there are alignments. Lawful evil would be basically what a hero necromancer is. Using the dark arts for the benefit of the world. Being a hero doesn’t keep you from doing evil deeds it just means that your evil deeds are guided by the overall benefit of the world.