Guild Wars 2

Dustfinger.9510:

I don’t think those of us who oppose it are saying everyone who wants it is specificly to use it for elitism. (Though, you can put money on some posters just by how abusive they try to be while talking about it) What we are saying is that history has proven that this is what eventually happens because it caters to that elitism.

So it really comes down to which attitude dominates the community. One where elitists are restricted to their own little corners of the world, or one where everyone else is restricted to their own little corners of the world. I prefer it if elitists do their own thing without imposing on me. Since their philosophy is based on imposing where as non-elitism is not.

I think your mis-attributing the reasons for the “spread of elitism.” Elitism occurs most strongly in games like LoL, where there is an explicit set of rules and etiquette that you learn through experience. An obvious one is “don’t feed” which is really obvious to anyone except a new player, who gets upset when they get berated for feeding.

Then look at games like WoW, where classes have rigid party roles and an explicit set of rules for optimally completing the dungeon. Again, the elitism is developed through experience. Some of this experience comes in the form of optimal gearing, where /inspect would come into play. But /inspect only factors into this as a victim of elitism, not a tool of elitism itself. /Inspect is a useful tool for determining if your party is geared optimally, but not a catalyst for elitism in itself.

If you look at GW2, you already have widespread elitism. At least in my case, i have been berated in groups for making noob mistakes, even after saying it was my first time.

The more experience a community gets with dungeons, the more optimal ways to complete it become common knowledge. Lack of that knowledge leads to bad mannered reactions and what we perceive as “elitist” attitudes. This type of gameplay is even more magnified in zerker cof runs, where you are not welcomed unless you conform to the most optimal standards to complete the dungeon.

I will not argue, that if /inspect was implemented, you would no doubt get /inspected and booted from a zerker run. But that is no different to the current environment, except you have to ping your gear to be evaluated. Or they assume you have zerk gear and then berate you later for under performing.

These issues only occur when people with two different goals unknowingly intermingle. If i post for a run for all classes, chances are the people that join will be easy going, because if they were trying to run the dungeon most optimally, they would seek out a zerker group. I think /inspect would provide useful information to prevent these two types of players from unknowingly grouping, thus lessening the amount of animosity you see in the community from casuals vs elitists.

I would much rather people ask me to link my gear so that I know who to avoid. It is only people that need others to carry them that request linking gear and want to see stats to make sure I’m of their particular build.

Dustfinger.9510:

^

bad idea. Only promotes elitism from people who don’t know the difference between “viable” and “optimal”.

Dustfinger hit the nail on the head.

diversecape.1465:

Naw. Mind your own business ppl.

Might as well item scores, that way we can quantitatively judge people. >_>

So once again. Me wanting to see skins that people are using is not minding my own business and somehow equates to me checking someone’s gear?

I leave for a weekend and this thread blows up with a confused all over feeling to inspecting vs templates and whether inspecting is good or not. lol

TehPwnerer.7215:

diversecape.1465:

Naw. Mind your own business ppl.

Might as well item scores, that way we can quantitatively judge people. >_>

So once again. Me wanting to see skins that people are using is not minding my own business and somehow equates to me checking someone’s gear?

Easy fix with templates: First you are linked the template > you open it > you hover over the armor skins > right click > Preview > ???? > Profit?

Though I agree that, in some cases, Inspecting can help a player out by providing stat combo ideas for newer players, or even help with the whole skin thing you were talking about, can be good, 9 times outta 10 the feature will mostly be used by the elitist crew that want to weed out the ‘weak’ or non-optimal build players.

diversecape.1465:

Naw. Mind your own business ppl.

Might as well item scores, that way we can quantitatively judge people. >_>

Don’t you know, we have that already! If you aren’t wearing exotic 80 gear, you’re doing it wrong. huehuehuehuehue >.>

Draco.9480:

I’m not against the template that someone asks me to accept his inspection request.
If he wants to see my gear/traits/achievements, I can choose yes or no.
Stalking people’s gear and traits without permission maybe break privacy so at least make inspection requests but do it. I have to who do I add to a dungeon group.
That’s a basic option in MMORPG, people wear wrong items for anything shall break their head a bit and advance a bit

TL;DR at bottom

It’s not generally seen as a break of privacy. Usually, in games that have it, lets say WoW for an example; Usually its generally ignored. I know that, even though I did inspect people from time to time in random LFG groups, it was more or less to check the stats to see why they were either doing really good on the recount DPS tracker, or to see why I was beating them out in DPS.

Other than that though, I never really touched the feature. Never used it to see what kinda armor look they had, nor was ever told anything about my armor being wrong by someone inspecting me. Sure, more than likely others inspected me as well, but never mentioned anything like that. Hell sometimes people would actually ask me what my weapons or armor were, thus showing us that generally people are too lazy to inspect.

TL;DR:
It’s mostly a feature for those elitist that want the best possible results. Most other people ignore it otherwise. That being said, its still not a good system imo. I would prefer, at minimum, a request pane to pop up with a yes or no option like you stated, but if given the option, would choose the template pinging feature.

Draco.9480:

I think we need the inspect option to see other player’s armory, traits and achievements. Each game has that option but gw2 doesn’t have it.
It’s hard to tell if the person is skilled or not without checking his gear, of course gear doesn’t always show the player’s skill, But we need at least some clue who do we take with us to the group or any sort of event. I’m also curious to check people sometimes when I’m bored. It’s a basic option in any MMORPG.

Never.
I will quit the game if they add this (comes from person with 9characters geared with exotics)
I had enough problems with CoF farmers who forced me to ping my gear each time I joined party for daily run.

NO MORE gear checking or any other hate generating options.

Thank you.

Septemptus.7164:

Draco.9480:

I think we need the inspect option to see other player’s armory, traits and achievements. Each game has that option but gw2 doesn’t have it.
It’s hard to tell if the person is skilled or not without checking his gear, of course gear doesn’t always show the player’s skill, But we need at least some clue who do we take with us to the group or any sort of event. I’m also curious to check people sometimes when I’m bored. It’s a basic option in any MMORPG.

Never.
I will quit the game if they add this (comes from person with 9characters geared with exotics)
I had enough problems with CoF farmers who forced me to ping my gear each time I joined party for daily run.

NO MORE gear checking or any other hate generating options.

Thank you.

Then quit. Or join a good guild that won’t make you ping gear. Or stop farming CoF p1 like a casual. Having an inspect feature is not elitist and people already require you to link gear for pugs. This would be no different. It would however help players like me who are interested in seeing other people’s armor and weapon skins.

But yeah if you quit nobody but you will care so I guess do what you want.

1st read,
2nd understand what I wrote
3rd then post about it.
Please do that.
If you fail any of the points, start from the begining.

Septemptus.7164:

1st read,
2nd understand what I wrote
3rd then post about it.
Please do that.
If you fail any of the points, start from the begining.

I read what you said and being a college graduate I possess adequate reading comprehension ability. I am saying that if you are looking for reasons to quit, nobody will miss you.

I’m also saying that having an inspect feature will not change people gear-checking for pugs. It’ll only make their jobs easier. I want inspect to see people’s armor and weapon skins. I could care less about their build or their gear stats. I would be curious to see builds especially if someone requests assistance in a build I’d be able to just open up an inspect on them and guide them through changes or suggestions.

Player skill isn’t derived from gear, all gw2 players should know this by now. So really, there is zero use in an inspect option, just ask what build they’re running. Usually this can be found out by just looking at what weapon’s the player has out, I laughed when I was asked to link my gear in cof farm runs. I was full zerk, said I was full zerk, and they were still asking for links, half the party left 1 minute after forming because “we were taking too long”….

Elitism is horrible, and it isn’t inviting to new players. Thankfully at high level fotm most people know each other and don’t have to ask for a link to know whether you’re good or bad. Want to know what the guy next to you is using? Ask. Mf gear is going out the window so there is really no need to ask for some youtube hero team.

TehPwnerer.7215:

Septemptus.7164:

Draco.9480:

I think we need the inspect option to see other player’s armory, traits and achievements. Each game has that option but gw2 doesn’t have it.
It’s hard to tell if the person is skilled or not without checking his gear, of course gear doesn’t always show the player’s skill, But we need at least some clue who do we take with us to the group or any sort of event. I’m also curious to check people sometimes when I’m bored. It’s a basic option in any MMORPG.

Never.
I will quit the game if they add this (comes from person with 9characters geared with exotics)
I had enough problems with CoF farmers who forced me to ping my gear each time I joined party for daily run.

NO MORE gear checking or any other hate generating options.

Thank you.

Then quit. Or join a good guild that won’t make you ping gear. Or stop farming CoF p1 like a casual. Having an inspect feature is not elitist and people already require you to link gear for pugs. This would be no different. It would however help players like me who are interested in seeing other people’s armor and weapon skins.

But yeah if you quit nobody but you will care so I guess do what you want.

Sorry, I can’t get past Farming CoF like a casual. Casuals don’t farm. Either they are casual because they don’t play hard, or they are casual because they only have an hour to play. In either case farming isn’t a thing, therefore that statement makes no sense.

I completely support a /inspect feature purely to examine and help fellow gw2 players. If my a simple suggestion or question of your gear would make you think “Elitist” then we could only assume you yourself know you aren’t playing your character to its best potential.

Freakfire.7248:

If my a simple suggestion or question of your gear would make you think “Elitist” then we could only assume you yourself know you aren’t playing your character to its best potential.

“Best potential” as decided by whom? You?

Skills are all that’s important in this game. There’s absolutely no point in having the best specced group around if nobody knows how their toons function properly.

No inspects.

ParnAshwind.4823:

Bright.9160:

Like I said: pingeable templates like in GW1, and that way, everyone is satisfied.

The people that want inspect can ask the people in their team to ping their build and inspect it. You can already ping gear, so that’s not hard to inspect either. With MF going away, it’s not like people will lie about their gear in an effort to leech, so that’s a worry less.

The carebears on here that don’t want naughty elitists to look at their gear/build can decline the request of pinging their setup, and the party can choose to react to that as they please.

The benefits of templates:

• Share builds easily

• Load up builds easily instead of all the manual bull****

• Can serve as a form of voluntary inspect

• Can be used to ping internet links like in GW1

• Has absolutely not a single downside what so ever

The downsides are:

ArenaNet should not waste their time to entertain (mainly) people who are selfish and mean to new players. These people are a minority and they will not be missed.

ArenaNet should spend their time coding USEFUL features like 1st Person View, MouseLook Mode, Buy multiple items, Submit multiple quest items, fix bugs, fix glitches, etc.

Share build? Who are you trying to kid. Everyone knows the “best” build.

I feel like you just read the elitist part of that post. Templates IMO would be more useful then 1st Person View…if only to save some people that play multiple builds a bit of time (or link builds to others without having to log into a voice/txt msg server).

Septemptus.7164:

Draco.9480:

I think we need the inspect option to see other player’s armory, traits and achievements. Each game has that option but gw2 doesn’t have it.
It’s hard to tell if the person is skilled or not without checking his gear, of course gear doesn’t always show the player’s skill, But we need at least some clue who do we take with us to the group or any sort of event. I’m also curious to check people sometimes when I’m bored. It’s a basic option in any MMORPG.

Never.
I will quit the game if they add this (comes from person with 9characters geared with exotics)
I had enough problems with CoF farmers who forced me to ping my gear each time I joined party for daily run.

NO MORE gear checking or any other hate generating options.

Thank you.

See this isn’t an /inspect problem, or an elitism problem. You just joined a group with different expectations than your own.

If you prefer to run with groups that don’t care about gear, don’t try to join “lfm zerkers only” groups. And if you didn’t know it was a zerker group, then it was their fault for not explicitly advertising as such, or them asking for your to ping your gear should have been a red flag.

If you don’t want to run a dungeon as fast as possible, don’t join groups who’s goal it is to run the dungeon as fast as possible.

What i’m seeing from the “anti-inspect” is a lot of misplaced anger. /inspect is not a malicious tool. It can be used just as maliciously as map chat, yet I don’t see you guys advocating for the removal of map chat.

Scrambles.2604:

Septemptus.7164:

Draco.9480:

I think we need the inspect option to see other player’s armory, traits and achievements. Each game has that option but gw2 doesn’t have it.
It’s hard to tell if the person is skilled or not without checking his gear, of course gear doesn’t always show the player’s skill, But we need at least some clue who do we take with us to the group or any sort of event. I’m also curious to check people sometimes when I’m bored. It’s a basic option in any MMORPG.

Never.
I will quit the game if they add this (comes from person with 9characters geared with exotics)
I had enough problems with CoF farmers who forced me to ping my gear each time I joined party for daily run.

NO MORE gear checking or any other hate generating options.

Thank you.

See this isn’t an /inspect problem, or an elitism problem. You just joined a group with different expectations than your own.

If you prefer to run with groups that don’t care about gear, don’t try to join “lfm zerkers only” groups. And if you didn’t know it was a zerker group, then it was their fault for not explicitly advertising as such, or them asking for your to ping your gear should have been a red flag.

If you don’t want to run a dungeon as fast as possible, don’t join groups who’s goal it is to run the dungeon as fast as possible.

What i’m seeing from the “anti-inspect” is a lot of misplaced anger. /inspect is not a malicious tool. It can be used just as maliciously as map chat, yet I don’t see you guys advocating for the removal of map chat.

Did you ever consider that maybe this person has, oh I don’t know, put up an lfg just saying something MAYBE along the lines of: “lfg cof p1” and was picked up by a group that requests to ping armor?

It does happen. Its happened to me.

Also, we don’t have to remove map chat because they have the option to turn it off. I keep map chat in another tab with say chat, and other chats in other tabs for that reason. If the inspect element was in the game, we would have no choice over the matter and if someone was not using the proper gear, the could very well be kicked without knowing why. Well they probably would figure it out, but still some might not and thats just not fun.

I’m not completely anti-inspect, I would prefer a template pinging option, but at the very least, an inspection request would be nice.

Topher.1684:

ParnAshwind.4823:

Bright.9160:

Like I said: pingeable templates like in GW1, and that way, everyone is satisfied.

The people that want inspect can ask the people in their team to ping their build and inspect it. You can already ping gear, so that’s not hard to inspect either. With MF going away, it’s not like people will lie about their gear in an effort to leech, so that’s a worry less.

The carebears on here that don’t want naughty elitists to look at their gear/build can decline the request of pinging their setup, and the party can choose to react to that as they please.

The benefits of templates:

• Share builds easily

• Load up builds easily instead of all the manual bull****

• Can serve as a form of voluntary inspect

• Can be used to ping internet links like in GW1

• Has absolutely not a single downside what so ever

The downsides are:

ArenaNet should not waste their time to entertain (mainly) people who are selfish and mean to new players. These people are a minority and they will not be missed.

ArenaNet should spend their time coding USEFUL features like 1st Person View, MouseLook Mode, Buy multiple items, Submit multiple quest items, fix bugs, fix glitches, etc.

Share build? Who are you trying to kid. Everyone knows the “best” build.

I feel like you just read the elitist part of that post. Templates IMO would be more useful then 1st Person View…if only to save some people that play multiple builds a bit of time (or link builds to others without having to log into a voice/txt msg server).

Its also good because Anet plans on adding kitten to traits and skills. So with templates, someone could make a build around w.e new kitten they add and if someone comes up with a good build for that new stuff, they could share it with the community with a simple build ping.

Inspect is the feature that spawned that demonic addon Gearscore in WoW. That addon destroyed the pug community. Basically people are far more likely to be elitist if they don’t have to go out of their way to do it. And once they go Elite they don’t go back (hence achievement barriers for getting into pug groups)

I strongly oppose the idea of an inspect option. Gear does not equate to skill. For example, the first time I ever did Fractals (shortly after it came out), I was in a party with four 80s, most of whom claimed to have done it before. I was a level 30 mesmer. I was also the one who stayed alive the longest and died the least in each of the three fractals we did. I’m not the best player, but I’m competent, and really that’s all you need—competence. No amount of goodies or shinies will make up for that; all it does it make you look like you know what you’re doing.

ArtemusHunter.9521:

Did you ever consider that maybe this person has, oh I don’t know, put up an lfg just saying something MAYBE along the lines of: “lfg cof p1” and was picked up by a group that requests to ping armor?

It does happen. Its happened to me.

Also, we don’t have to remove map chat because they have the option to turn it off. I keep map chat in another tab with say chat, and other chats in other tabs for that reason. If the inspect element was in the game, we would have no choice over the matter and if someone was not using the proper gear, the could very well be kicked without knowing why. Well they probably would figure it out, but still some might not and thats just not fun.

I’m not completely anti-inspect, I would prefer a template pinging option, but at the very least, an inspection request would be nice.

I’m very sorry that group made you ping your gear. But in this case you should be upset with the people that didn’t properly indicate the group they were looking for. Or even mad at Anet because they don’t provide a LFG that would help you avoid running with players you’d prefer not run with.

But i don’t see how /inspect has anything to do with it. If you accidentally join a zerker group, they would just boot you after inspecting you, instead of asking you to ping and then boot you. Less hassle for you, the way i see it, besides the anxiety of never knowing for certain why they booted you, lol.

Considering we know nothing about a /inspect feature, as it’s all hypothetical at this point, it’s just as safe to assume they would add a “block inspect” feature, or even just make /ignore block inspects.

Otherwise, i advocate /inspect over an optimized gear/build ping simply because you don’t have to bother anyone. When i played WoW i couldve been inspected a thousand times or not-at-all because the feature itself is not obtrusive. However, it was useful for me when i was learning the game, or even just to look at shinies or see various ways people built their characters.

edit; to address the other posts…If gear does not equate skill then what is the big deal about people looking at your gear? Obviously we all know it’s not a true indicator of performance, so if someone is dumb enough to judge you solely on your gear then I say, you are better off without him, girlfriend!

and inspect didn’t spawn gearscore. The nature of the game did, you needed a certain level of stats to complete certain content, so gearscore was the measure of that. GW2 has a stat cap at 80 and doesn’t gate any content the way WoW did, you can complete anything as long as you are good enough and can dodge at the right times (exlcuding fractals).

Dustfinger.9510:

bad idea. Only promotes elitism from people who don’t know the difference between “viable” and “optimal”.

This.

Not interested in any sort or inspect feature. It brings out the worst in people.

Septemptus.7164:

Never.
I will quit the game if they add this (comes from person with 9characters geared with exotics)
I had enough problems with CoF farmers who forced me to ping my gear each time I joined party for daily run.

NO MORE gear checking or any other hate generating options.

Thank you.

Why ever where you joining the pinging gear groups if you did not want to play that way? If you are joining random groups and they are asking for you to ping your gear, not forcing, why are you doing so If if gets you this upset. There where plenty of groups formed for CoF1 on gw2lfg that where not asking for gear pings, join those, or advertise your own.

Don’t ping if you don’t want to. Don’t reward behavior that you do not want to play with. The other players cannot force you to do anything except through vote kick. They can however choose not to play with you. You have the same option.

Don’t encourage the behavior you seem to perceive as “bad” by submitting. Leave or vote kick them instead!

This sort of feature needs to be in the game. Also a template share and save system would be incredibly useful. Why? Because it would be easier to promote a build,share it, or receive another one without having to go through the trouble of typing it all out. Quality of life!

As to the inspect feature : it has to happen. Why? Because it’s terrible having to carry people around.

People like Septemptus for example are saying that this would make them quit the game. WHY? He mentions hate generating options but there’s already a lot of hate generated when I get in a group for a dungeon for example and notice some people have no idea what they are doing. I write down " expert " on LFG, but they join anyway. And have NO clue as to what they’re doing.
It should be fair that we can spot these people by inspecting their gear/traits.

Does gear mean everything? No.
Does gear mean you are skilled? No.
BUT – it means that you’re competent enough to get it, and even if you bought it all with real money it still means you’re invested enough in the game to at least WEAR THE RIGHT GEAR. That right there makes enough of a difference.

This sort of option will separate players between those who CARE about the game and what they’re doing, care about their utility to the party and those who just join to be carried along. If anything it will IMPROVE people to step up their game and become better.

People already want an " elite " separator – Achievement Points are now the in place system that people use.
As a personal experience – anything under 2k achievement points has been less than up to par. I have nothing against those players BUT I’m running things to be efficient and effective. I have a right to choose who I play with.

Also the terms – viable and optimal were mentioned.
Viable – it works – take it if you’ve got nothing better to do.
Optimal – gives maximum and is fine tuned – I wouldn’t take anything else.

Why can’t we have a simple option that allows Viable-oriented and Optimal-oriented players to find like minded individuals and play with them?

Why must I go through situations where I join a bad party and get called out when I point out how to improve their game and make the run go better? Or when I get a guy so bad we’re forced to kick him to complete the run because he won’t even listen?
A inspect system would allow these situations to be resolved before they even happen.

You’re amusing. You have no arguments so you just made some ridiculous ones up.
It’s opinions like yours that keep me coming back to the forums. Never miss out on a good laugh.

Diamandis.7483:

No! =/ nothing about this kinda system in the game feels right about it. I would only support it if you could help a guildy or friend directly and only them with such a feature as in if they are on your friends list and you are on their list. If they add this feature they should also just change all waypoint fees to 1-2g while they are at it too cause well that makes sense too right!? Then you could also add debuffs to the entire player base for all those who do not wanna be inspected to reduce movement speed by 99%!! Genius! oh I think I might be in favor of a inspect feature if they fix our op movement skills and waypoint abuse then

None of this makes sense, nor is it a good argument for anything. You’re not helping here.

Harper.4173:

As to the inspect feature : it has to happen. Why? Because it’s terrible having to carry people around.

This is the problem, right here. You are an elitist. You feel that just because someone isn’t playing the game just the way you want YOU are somehow being imposed upon if you are “stuck” working with them.

You are not carrying people around. That isn’t how this game works. Just because they might not be killing things quite as fast as you like doesn’t make them deficient.

The problem is you and your rude expectations. I’m not going to say you’re doing it wrong, because the point is to do it the way you want to. But that also means not imposing your view of how to do it on anyone else either.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Harper.4173:

As to the inspect feature : it has to happen. Why? Because it’s terrible having to carry people around.

This is the problem, right here. You are an elitist. You feel that just because someone isn’t playing the game just the way you want YOU are somehow being imposed upon if you are “stuck” working with them.

You are not carrying people around. That isn’t how this game works. Just because they might not be killing things quite as fast as you like doesn’t make them deficient.

The problem is you and your rude expectations. I’m not going to say you’re doing it wrong, because the point is to do it the way you want to. But that also means not imposing your view of how to do it on anyone else either.

Besides, you’ll “carry” people who have great gear but no skills. Gear alone means very little. The best player might be ungeared, and the worst might have fine gear. How does gear tell you anything at all? The best possible stats mean nothing without experience and intelligence.

Equinox.4968:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Harper.4173:

As to the inspect feature : it has to happen. Why? Because it’s terrible having to carry people around.

This is the problem, right here. You are an elitist. You feel that just because someone isn’t playing the game just the way you want YOU are somehow being imposed upon if you are “stuck” working with them.

You are not carrying people around. That isn’t how this game works. Just because they might not be killing things quite as fast as you like doesn’t make them deficient.

The problem is you and your rude expectations. I’m not going to say you’re doing it wrong, because the point is to do it the way you want to. But that also means not imposing your view of how to do it on anyone else either.

Besides, you’ll “carry” people who have great gear but no skills. Gear alone means very little. The best player might be ungeared, and the worst might have fine gear. How does gear tell you anything at all? The best possible stats mean nothing without experience and intelligence.

Exactly, I consistently out played my groups in dungeons with sub par gear in a spec people scoff at, with a class people have no faith in. But if anyone carried anyone it was me carrying them, because I know how to play my character.

@Kal – first and foremost carrying means more than just " people who don’t live up to my expectations".
It means knowing absolutely nothing about AC P2 end boss and me having to explain it on chat when they could’ve watched a youtube video.
Yes – I’m an elitist. I want to play with similar people and I want a system that allows us to spot each other.
If someone isn’t playing up to " my standards " they are in a sense as you have said imposing. Why? Because it’s MY TIME that we’re wasting in that dungeon wiping for the third time at that final boss. Why? Because they can’t listen. Or bring a decent set-up.

I’ve said it a thousand times before. Gear does not equal skill BUT a gear check allows me to verify intent.
I trust a player that is traited and geared for maximum efficiency more than one that isn’t. First and foremost I need a means to identify similar minded individuals. And gear check gives me that.
You can’t cut out a person’s skill out of the equation but you can at least reduce the influence all the other factors play.

The bottom line is this : If someone doesn’t want to play with somebody else they should have the right to. Right now the system in place HIDES other players through the lack of a functional inspect system.

If such a system would be in place people like me would play with other " elitist scum" and casuals would play with other casuals. Less interaction, less friction, more gold and fun for everyone. How is that bad?

Kal Spiro.9745:

Equinox.4968:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Harper.4173:

As to the inspect feature : it has to happen. Why? Because it’s terrible having to carry people around.

This is the problem, right here. You are an elitist. You feel that just because someone isn’t playing the game just the way you want YOU are somehow being imposed upon if you are “stuck” working with them.

You are not carrying people around. That isn’t how this game works. Just because they might not be killing things quite as fast as you like doesn’t make them deficient.

The problem is you and your rude expectations. I’m not going to say you’re doing it wrong, because the point is to do it the way you want to. But that also means not imposing your view of how to do it on anyone else either.

Besides, you’ll “carry” people who have great gear but no skills. Gear alone means very little. The best player might be ungeared, and the worst might have fine gear. How does gear tell you anything at all? The best possible stats mean nothing without experience and intelligence.

Exactly, I consistently out played my groups in dungeons with sub par gear in a spec people scoff at, with a class people have no faith in. But if anyone carried anyone it was me carrying them, because I know how to play my character.

It’s really hard not to believe you when your signature says ranger and cleric’s spec…

Oh wait, yes it is. Those sub 1k autoattacks must really be impressive.

I don’t mind taking a ranger on my run, as long as they run a DPS build.

I can 100% guarantee you that if you came on one of our runs, using your build, we might as well be 4manning, because we’d be carrying you so hard our backs would physically hurt.

The nonsense of good build =/= good player needs to stop, because yes it’s true, but bad build = bad player is at least a given. A good player will not run a bad build, hence, someone with a bad build can already be weeded out easily.

And I’m not even asking for /inspect, I just want the template system back so people can ping their builds, leaving room for both sides to play the way they like. The pro-inspectors can ask for people to ping their build. The people who want their ‘privacy’ can refuse to ping it and that way won’t have to play with people they don’t like to play with.

What I find funny about these elitists and their claims of having to “carry people through” is that they would like us to believe that they were experts in the game from day one; they rolled a level 80 character with full exotics and an automatic mastery of every dungeon and every boss (even those that have yet to be created by ANet). In other words, they like us to believe that they are the Kim Jong-Il of GW2 – can get 18 holes in one despite never picking up a golf club in their lives!

What I find funny about the anti-elitist elitists is that they put words in other people’s mouths and then pretend they made an argument, and then stroke their peen in self-indulgence, thinking they changed the world.

I dont see much wrong with pinging builds, there are build you like to play, but there are also very bad builds. That would make you assume the person does not understand the char he or she is playing at all.
Myself I would not mind in such a person in the group, but i can see people who want to do is as fast as possible find that person unsuited for the group.
Pinging armour and weaps is nothing I would want in the game. I do not need omg look at his rings rofl kick.

You could have the best build in the world and still be useless at playing it. Stats/builds are irrelevant if you have no skill.

You didn’t bother to check the second page, where there are 3 suggestions for this, all full of no. Two of them are by the same guy.

Nobody wants to give the elitist tools more ways to be elitist tools. Live with it.

@stale – two words : Achievement Points.

uknortherner.2670:

You could have the best build in the world and still be useless at playing it. Stats/builds are irrelevant if you have no skill.

Yes, but there are several factors that will determine a player’s ability to pull their weight in a group.

- Gear
- Build
- Skill
- RNG of the encounters

The last one is obviously not possible to take into account, so that leaves us with 3 factors. The more factors you can eliminate, the bigger the chance the player is going to pull their weight.

Oh, and stop saying that crap about “a good player can run a bad build and do better than a bad player with a good build” or anything along the lines of “good build =/= good player”. Because an actually good player wouldn’t run a bad build to begin with. A player with a good build is either a bad player running a good build, which will show itself during the run, or a good player running a good build. A player with a bad build is going to perform sub par no matter how you twist or turn it, because if he was a good player, and he’d run a good build, his performance would be significantly better, hence there is no reason to take someone with a truly bad build no matter what.

Llyren.3904:

Septemptus.7164:

Never.
I will quit the game if they add this (comes from person with 9characters geared with exotics)
I had enough problems with CoF farmers who forced me to ping my gear each time I joined party for daily run.

NO MORE gear checking or any other hate generating options.

Thank you.

Why ever where you joining the pinging gear groups if you did not want to play that way? If you are joining random groups and they are asking for you to ping your gear, not forcing, why are you doing so If if gets you this upset. There where plenty of groups formed for CoF1 on gw2lfg that where not asking for gear pings, join those, or advertise your own.

Don’t ping if you don’t want to. Don’t reward behavior that you do not want to play with. The other players cannot force you to do anything except through vote kick. They can however choose not to play with you. You have the same option.

Don’t encourage the behavior you seem to perceive as “bad” by submitting. Leave or vote kick them instead!

For your information not every group advertises being zerg/gear checking.
Also I see that people are acting really bad towards each other within a zerg groups and that is passed on to another locations. That gives bad game experience for others and so on. If you hit that wall few times it makes you mad and you don’t want to spend time in game anymore. I talked to some quite fresh people who were really frustrated about it, so think about it.

Now we have map zergs and you can join them wearing blues and wrong stats and everyone is having fun (at least for now since it will eventually be boring).
That’s the way to play. Have fun not to be inspected, treated like trash cause you don’t have specs at your gear like someone wishes.

SO PLEASE NO MOR WITH THIS INSPECTION NONSENCE.
(I wont most in here anymore)

Septemptus

You just don’t get it do you?
Everyone is having fun in a zerg wearing blues and whatever they want ? THAT’S FINE IN A ZERG. Not in a dungeon where there’s only 5 people – each one being directly responsible of 20% of the party’s effectiveness.

Having fun is DIFFERENT for different people. Some people have fun taking 2 hours in a dungeon. Others have fun taking 10-15 minutes.
For me a dungeon experience that doesn’t end within 20 minutes is not fun. It’s not effective and not profitable. There are a lot of people like me that don’t enjoy the game if it’s being played too slowly.
Doing a dungeon path in one hour might be fun for some of you but there are serious players out there for whom this sort of experience is not fun, but aggravating and frustrating.
I want the means to SPARE MYSELF THIS SORT OF EXPERIENCE.

Not having the gear/specs that me or other " elitist scum" desire doesn’t mean you’ll be treated like trash – it just means we won’t be playing together. It doesn’t mean he’ll be insulted or called names – just that he won’t be taken in the run.
In GW1 if someone pinged a build that was terrible i’d just say " Sorry – we need more experience people – you should check out the build for this on PvX". That’s not being treated like trash imo.

The alternative to the situation above is taking people in a run – seeing they’re doing terrible and then having to kick them mid-run. HOW IS THAT BETTER?

You’ve very well illustrated all that’s wrong with the " casual no inspect " crowd. You want no-stress-no-skill zerg farming that’s totally forgiving, you want to play however you desire with no consideration of how your way of playing affects other people’s fun AND since you’ve run out of arguments you just spam " PLEASE NO MORE " and " I won’t post anymore " because QQ – You can’t support an opinion with arguments and facts.
Just " PLEASE DO IT MY WAY ANET PLEASE, I NEED TO BE CATERED TO"

You’re stereotypical for all that’s bad in this community.

I get the feeling a lot of you guys don’t want to play with “ZERKER or GTFO” elitists, but at the same time are getting upset when they don’t let you in their party.

Also, you seem to dismiss the idea that some people actually prefer to play in “ZERKER or GTFO” groups, as content can be completed with mostly any group/build makeup there is no explicit ‘need’ for a type of gear. It’s like you disagree with their playstyle so hard that you refuse to acknowledge it’s right to exist.

You guys need to look inside yourselves and realize it’s not /inspect that’s really troubling you.

Harper.4173:

It means knowing absolutely nothing about AC P2 end boss and me having to explain it on chat when they could’ve watched a youtube video.

For the record, I and 3 other people who had never done AC P2 before teamed up with one guy who had. He explained that boss fight in 30 seconds and commented afterwards that we had pretty much destroyed it in record time, with no deaths and maybe one person briefly downed. It’s ludicrous to suggest that something like that could never happen, or that you can’t bother to spend 30 seconds of your life to enlighten others and make everyone’s experience a little better. Is 30 seconds that big of a deal? If it is, then I’m rather concerned.

Equinox.4968:

Besides, you’ll “carry” people who have great gear but no skills. Gear alone means very little. The best player might be ungeared, and the worst might have fine gear. How does gear tell you anything at all? The best possible stats mean nothing without experience and intelligence.

Aren’t you the guy who basically suggested that Anet should make some sort of ‘test of skill’ that people need to pass in order to play the game?

So an inspect is totally off limits, but something as intrusive and quite insulting as having a test before being allowed to play a game is totally normal.

That sounds fair…

Bright.9160:

uknortherner.2670:

You could have the best build in the world and still be useless at playing it. Stats/builds are irrelevant if you have no skill.

Yes, but there are several factors that will determine a player’s ability to pull their weight in a group.

- Gear
- Build
- Skill
- RNG of the encounters

The last one is obviously not possible to take into account, so that leaves us with 3 factors. The more factors you can eliminate, the bigger the chance the player is going to pull their weight.

Oh, and stop saying that crap about “a good player can run a bad build and do better than a bad player with a good build” or anything along the lines of “good build =/= good player”. Because an actually good player wouldn’t run a bad build to begin with. A player with a good build is either a bad player running a good build, which will show itself during the run, or a good player running a good build. A player with a bad build is going to perform sub par no matter how you twist or turn it, because if he was a good player, and he’d run a good build, his performance would be significantly better, hence there is no reason to take someone with a truly bad build no matter what.

And once again you say nothing worth taking note of. You scoff at my cleric spec. Like I care. Yes, I do less damage, but I also survive your RNG argument because I built my character specifically for that situation. You want damage damage damage because the game makes life easier, as long as everything goes right in those circumstances. Me, I know better. I don’t need the dungeon to be over in an instant cause I actually like playing the game. I don’t know why you’re in such a rush for the same reason. But where you die when the RNG gods frown, I get hurt and keep going. The only thing in any dungeon that has ever consistently slowed me down are my companions. The only thing that has killed me is trying to res them instead of leaving them to rot because they couldn’t take a hit.

You know how your build works. You know how to play your character. But you don’t know a kitten ed thing about me, how I play, nor what I’m capable of. So in what way, exactly, are you qualified to judge me based on numbers on a spreadsheet?

You are the absolute worse type of person in any MMO. You aren’t willing to just play the game. You can’t take the good with the bad and deal with it. If it isn’t the most you can’t deal with it at all, but you don’t have to. You don’t need /inspect because you don’t play with other people. You only play with your people already. Therefore this tool wouldn’t even be needed by you. I also understand you’re advocating templates, but if you want templates to be your salvation join a templates thread. This is about /inspect, which we don’t need.

Kal Spiro.9745:

And once again you say nothing worth taking note of. You scoff at my cleric spec. Like I care. Yes, I do less damage, but I also survive your RNG argument because I built my character specifically for that situation. You want damage damage damage because the game makes life easier, as long as everything goes right in those circumstances. Me, I know better. I don’t need the dungeon to be over in an instant cause I actually like playing the game. I don’t know why you’re in such a rush for the same reason. But where you die when the RNG gods frown, I get hurt and keep going. The only thing in any dungeon that has ever consistently slowed me down are my companions. The only thing that has killed me is trying to res them instead of leaving them to rot because they couldn’t take a hit.

You know how your build works. You know how to play your character. But you don’t know a kitten ed thing about me, how I play, nor what I’m capable of. So in what way, exactly, are you qualified to judge me based on numbers on a spreadsheet?

You are the absolute worse type of person in any MMO. You aren’t willing to just play the game. You can’t take the good with the bad and deal with it. If it isn’t the most you can’t deal with it at all, but you don’t have to. You don’t need /inspect because you don’t play with other people. You only play with your people already. Therefore this tool wouldn’t even be needed by you. I also understand you’re advocating templates, but if you want templates to be your salvation join a templates thread. This is about /inspect, which we don’t need.

You actually seem to care an aweful lot, since you basically only insulted me during that post.

You’re still free to come on a run with us in any dungeon of your choosing (not CoF or HotW, I hate those dungeons with a passion) and run whatever build you like. I’d just like to show you why we care about builds/setups so much.

And I indeed only advocate a template system, and I keep bringing it up here, because the discussions get pretty heated sometimes, while I try to keep pointing out that templates would make everyone happy…

I’m good with gw2skills.net. It lets you choose everything, skills, traits, armor, weapons and upgrades. I don’t see a value in displaying the current incarnation of my character when I can show what the intended final value is going to be.

That’s why the description of your template idea isn’t any different than /inspect and is just as worthless. If you’re saying make gw2skills.net into an ingame function so I can build the path from level 1 fine. But I don’t need anyone to know where I am before I reach my goal. Neither do you.

As for running with you. No thanks. I’ve already established that I’m not in a hurry. I like to play the game for what it is, not for a prize dispenser. I like to watch cut scenes and enjoy the stuff between the bosses too. I even like to clear a path from time to time rather than skipping all the junk. Even if I had a build you would find acceptable that would still be how I like to play and we would not get along, cause you’re in a rush to finish it.

Kal Spiro.9745:

You aren’t willing to just play the game my way

fixed that for you to better explain your point of view. While we all may complete the same dungeons, our goals may still differ. It’s like, you’re upset people may discriminate you for your gear, yet you continue to discriminate against people that play the game “wrong” and aren’t willing to “just play the game.”

I gotta admit, in all these /inspect threads, i’ve never seen an elitist also take the side of the anti-inspect crowd, haha.

Equinox.4968:

Harper.4173:

It means knowing absolutely nothing about AC P2 end boss and me having to explain it on chat when they could’ve watched a youtube video.

For the record, I and 3 other people who had never done AC P2 before teamed up with one guy who had. He explained that boss fight in 30 seconds and commented afterwards that we had pretty much destroyed it in record time, with no deaths and maybe one person briefly downed. It’s ludicrous to suggest that something like that could never happen, or that you can’t bother to spend 30 seconds of your life to enlighten others and make everyone’s experience a little better. Is 30 seconds that big of a deal? If it is, then I’m rather concerned.

For the record – I’ve given up on doing AC path 2. I’ve explained it countless of times taking MORE than 30 seconds and people still find a way to screw it up. Simple as that.
I’m done wasting my time and taking my chances. When I go in a dungeon i want to space out and just focus on doing MY job with everyone else around me doing THEIRS. I want things to run like clockwork. I want people who’ve done the dungeon as many times as me, are just there for the reward and can cut it to ribbons in 10 minutes or less.

And once again you say nothing worth taking note of. You scoff at my cleric spec. Like I care. Yes, I do less damage, but I also survive your RNG argument because I built my character specifically for that situation. You want damage damage damage because the game makes life easier, as long as everything goes right in those circumstances. Me, I know better. I don’t need the dungeon to be over in an instant cause I actually like playing the game. I don’t know why you’re in such a rush for the same reason. But where you die when the RNG gods frown, I get hurt and keep going. The only thing in any dungeon that has ever consistently slowed me down are my companions. The only thing that has killed me is trying to res them instead of leaving them to rot because they couldn’t take a hit.
You know how your build works. You know how to play your character. But you don’t know a kitten ed thing about me, how I play, nor what I’m capable of. So in what way, exactly, are you qualified to judge me based on numbers on a spreadsheet?
You are the absolute worse type of person in any MMO. You aren’t willing to just play the game. You can’t take the good with the bad and deal with it. If it isn’t the most you can’t deal with it at all, but you don’t have to. You don’t need /inspect because you don’t play with other people. You only play with your people already. Therefore this tool wouldn’t even be needed by you. I also understand you’re advocating templates, but if you want templates to be your salvation join a templates thread. This is about /inspect, which we don’t need.

He wants damage damage damage because that’s what wins a fight in this game. The less time you spend fighting the less chance there is of something going wrong. SIMPLE as that.
And trust me – if you know your runs perfectly there are no RNG gods. You pull, you corner, and dps anything to the ground without even bothering.
You know how your build works and how you play but based on what you use it is HIS right and MY right to choose not to play with you. Why? Because we don’t want to and there’s no reason for anyone to force us to have you along.

You’re asking why he’s in a rush to do the dungeons – same reason I’m in a rush- GOLD. I want to get the max amount of gold possible for my time spent in that dungeon. Since the gold reward is FIXED the only way to fix this is to spend as little time inside as possible.
And yes – an inspect function is necessary. I should’t have to build a guild just so I know the people are " safe" to play with.

You clearly dislike people like me – "elitist scum " – so why won’t you agree to give us the opportunity to never have to interact with you again? Wouldn’t that make your day?

Why not have the means through which the two parts of the player base can clearly distinguish between each other. This way no more friction is created.

@unrelated – Kal – i ran a run of AC with some people from TC a few days ago. They refused to skip and generally wasted a lot of time in the run. I can’t help but feel your name is familiar. Did we run in the same run by any chance?

I’ll just copy&paste my answers out of the old topics about /inspect.

Molch.2078:

There is a difference between
I want to play the game the way I want
and
I want you to play the game the way I want

Let’s imagine this is implemented in the game. The uberzerker CoF1 elitist can create a group and sort everyone out who doesn’t match his needs. This part of the game is happy.

The hippie can create a group, too. Go to gw2lfg and make a “lf4m cof p1 everyone welcome” – you’ll find ppl in no time. This group isn’t affected by the change at all, because noone uses gear check. They are happy, too.

The one and only victim would be the one, who enters a elitist speedrunn group wit ha crap build and expects to get carried. But remember, the stupid elitist has the same rights you have. And currently he has no way to figure out if you match his needs or not.
And you have no way to recognize him as a elitist prick. You don’t want to play with him, he doesn’t want to play with you – a kick would be a win-win situation.

Play the game the way you want is awesome, but we need tools to find other like-minded players. With out them, there are groups with two or more players, who have contradicting ways to play the game.

This would be one such tool.

And anotherone about a dps-meter:

Molch.2078:

Pros:

• More possibilities for personal and teamwide optimisation.
• A way to compare yourself to others – better and more realistic self-evaluation.
• Easy way to determine if you want to play with somebody or not – for both elitists and casuals.
• Better and easier way to spot balance-issues.

Cons:

• You would notice very fast if your guild is friendly or or a bunch of kitten.
• If you are a bad player and have no interest in getting better, you would have trouble to find a decent group/guild.

Those arguments are always the same. There are lots of pros and the only real con – more ways for idiots to flame ppl – can easily be answerd with: If somebody kicks you for low DPS [edit.: and/or a bad build], you probably didn’t want to play with that person in the first place.

Holy crap, dem assumptions… Okay, let’s break this down.

Kal Spiro.9745:

I’m good with gw2skills.net. It lets you choose everything, skills, traits, armor, weapons and upgrades. I don’t see a value in displaying the current incarnation of my character when I can show what the intended final value is going to be.

That’s why the description of your template idea isn’t any different than /inspect and is just as worthless. If you’re saying make gw2skills.net into an ingame function so I can build the path from level 1 fine. But I don’t need anyone to know where I am before I reach my goal. Neither do you.

No, I mainly want a template system so I can save and load builds. This includes sharing them and pinging them for people asking for the builds etc. I don’t want it as a form of inspect, but as a form of convenience. I just propose it because it so happens to make the pro-inspect crowd happy, while at the same time working around all the complaints of the anti-inspect crowd, and providing everyone in the game with an exceptionally useful tool.

Kal Spiro.9745:

As for running with you. No thanks. I’ve already established that I’m not in a hurry. I like to play the game for what it is, not for a prize dispenser. I like to watch cut scenes and enjoy the stuff between the bosses too. I even like to clear a path from time to time rather than skipping all the junk. Even if I had a build you would find acceptable that would still be how I like to play and we would not get along, cause you’re in a rush to finish it.

I do dungeons because I enjoy them, not for the gold. Part of my enjoyment is doing them fast and smooth. Mainly smooth though, fast is usually just a side-product of smooth. You seem to think I’ll rage a run when it takes 5 minutes longer than it should, which I don’t. I’m usually happy enough to actually just do dungeons. I’ve had terrible runs, and I’ve had amazing runs. I’ve also had terrible runs that were more fun than amazing runs.

And like I said, I wouldn’t even tell you what build to run, I’d just like to show you why we focus on builds so much. Mainly stuff like Subject Alpha dieing in ~15 seconds, <1min Lupicus, <40s Nightmare Tree in F/U etc.

I’m not even saying it in a hostile manner, in fact, I haven’t really been hostile at all. Except maybe when I pointed out I personally think your build is bad, which wasn’t hostile at all. You however seem to have some deep hatred for me without even knowing me. I’m rarely in a rush to finish a dungeon. The only things that make me annoyed on runs is people running key roles like Guardian or Mesmer on some paths without knowing how to play the class, or people not listening and screwing up things after I explain them because they weren’t listening.

Other than that… People make mistakes. So do I. No need to be so hostile. And the offer still stands.

Harper.4173:

He wants damage damage damage because that’s what wins a fight in this game. The less time you spend fighting the less chance there is of something going wrong. SIMPLE as that.
And trust me – if you know your runs perfectly there are no RNG gods. You pull, you corner, and dps anything to the ground without even bothering.

Well, not really true, there’s always stuff that can go horribly wrong… Lupicus of course, although I haven’t wiped on him in a while. CM has a couple of encounters that can go really well, or really really wrong. Champ wolf in CoE etc. Destroyer in CoE p3 with his AoE attack. Even if you know all the encounters, sometimes, it can still go south.

Harper.4173:

You’re asking why he’s in a rush to do the dungeons – same reason I’m in a rush- GOLD. I want to get the max amount of gold possible for my time spent in that dungeon. Since the gold reward is FIXED the only way to fix this is to spend as little time inside as possible.

Actually, no. I like doing dungeons fast because I like doing dungeons fast. I don’t care about gold, it’s just a side product. I do think that rewards for dungeons should be better, but that’s only because rewards for open-world mindless zerg rushing is better than dungeons, which isn’t really fair Risk-Reward wise.

I actually don’t want an inspect. I wouldn’t mind an inspect, I just would be a lot happier with a template system like in GW1, because it would be an amazing QoL feature and it would make both sides of this argument happy.