Guild Wars 2

I’m sure this or something similar has been suggested before, but not that I have seen, so here is my suggestion for Necromancer’s lack of vigor/evade/invulnerable/block.

F2 Key: Hollow Shroud (Could use a better name.)

Cooldown: 0~30 Seconds (Because it is gated by Lifeforce a CD may not be needed)

Effect: Evade 3/4 sec or Block 2 sec

(The duration are examples and should be increased/decreased based on CD/Lifeforce used, or both.)

Requires: Minimum 50% Lifeforce and Consumes 25% Lifeforce

Essentially giving us 2 (3 if generating LF) extra Damage Avoidance moves. Putting us significantly above where we are, but still behind Evade Ranger/Thief, Focus Guardian, and Shield/Toolkit Engineer, etc.

This also comes at a cost of Health/Damage, in that we are skillfully trading a massive amount of Lifeforce for a short active defense. (Blocking or Evading a blow could generate LF though, punishing the enemy for less skilled play and allowing us recuperate our cost.)

I personally think that a high up time on vigor or a block/evade that does not draw Lifeforce would most likely be overpowered, (Resulting in nerfs to DS or our offensive capabilities.) as we have a massive health pool due to high base health + deathshroud. This solution would avoid that issue, while still giving us the tools to avoid insta-downs and mass spikes.

(I originally posted this in the Necromancer Profession forum but felt it might be better suited to here.)

i’m curious — is necromancer built with less endurance than the other professions? i know that a couple of others can increase endurance through traits, and i believe there’s a sigil that can give endurance on weapon-swap, but i wasn’t aware, while playing my nec, that she was caught short-handed when it came to endurance.

I don’t think that necros need any more defense, in any form.

Morinmeth.9823:

I don’t think that necros need any more defense, in any form.

Do you play Necromancer?

I don’t think endurance gain (lack of) was a huge problem until they took our ability to absorb hits.

but i have to fall back on — does necro have less endurance than an engineer? than any of the other professions that don’t have endurance gains traited in? i’ll be bloody well honest, i didn’t play with whatever it was you guys must have, so i’ve not noticed my necromancer “failing” or having difficulties with dodges — she dodges as much as my engis do, as much as my guardian does — far less than my thief, slightly less than my warriors …

Does Engi have access to vigor and/or viable and reliable stun breakers?

Isende.2607:

i’m curious — is necromancer built with less endurance than the other professions? i know that a couple of others can increase endurance through traits, and i believe there’s a sigil that can give endurance on weapon-swap, but i wasn’t aware, while playing my nec, that she was caught short-handed when it came to endurance.

Necros have no inherent means of increasing endurance. There is a very indirect and situational means for them to gain Vigor; convert the Chilled condition to Vigor using Well of Power.

Though I agree with the spirit of the OP’s post, I disagree with it as written. This is not the first post to suggest a method for making up for what was lost when necromancer’s Death Shroud was nerfed by allowing damage to overflow to the normal health pool.

Despite all the convoluted suggestions for how to restore some measure of survivability for necros against 1-shot-kill mechanics, the simplest and easiest still remains to eliminate the overflow damage from Death Shroud to the normal health pool as existed prior to the nerf.

For nearly a year necros had this ability and no one, anywhere, ever complained about it being OP, unbalanced, or unfair. If anything, necros were considered a free kill in WvWvW and PvP despite having this ability. It wasn’t saving us from certain death or making us unkillable; at most – in those game modes – it delayed a necro’s inevitable defeat by only one hit.

What it did do was – through skillful timing and efficient life force generation/management – give us our only means of surviving 1-hit-kills from dungeon bosses and champions and surviving otherwise fatal jumps from great heights (such as cliffs in WvWvW). That’s it. No game breaking, OP, unbalanced, exploited, abused mechanic. Just simply the ability to absorb a single hit or fall that would have sent us to defeat.

It was not a freebie either; that single hit or fall would eat up all remaining life force, leaving us without any defense until we managed to build more life force (which was appropriate and which necros themselves had no complaint). It was no different, in practice, than the myriad sources of block, evade, invulnerability, and vigor available to other professions but with an opportunity cost of sacrificing all of our life force to use it.

With the nerf, however, it was stripped from us. Coupled with our complete lack of access to alternative sources of defense (no block, evade, invulnerability, or vigor), this makes necros sitting ducks against 1-shot-kills. It’s no wonder necros are asked to sit out boss encounters by their party members (if we’re lucky enough to even get into a dungeon or fractal group). Way to go, ArenaNet; implement a change that has players asking other players to not play the game. Fail!

Some will counter that necros got Dhuumfire in return. Of note is the necro community as a whole was opposed to Dhuumfire; we didn’t want it. What was asked was to show some love for the conditionmancers; but ArenaNet screwed up with their Dumbfire implementation. Furthermore, not every necro uses conditions. So in exchange for burning that few necros wanted, our profession-specific mechanic and sole means of surviving 1-shot-kills was nerfed.

Many necros would be happy to see Dhuumfire removed in exchange for reverting Death Shroud to its pre-nerf state. Of course, Dhuumfire won’t be removed now. One compromise I’ve seen suggested would be to revert Death Shroud, then change our traits around so a necro can’t equip both Dhuumfire and Terror in the same build; they’d become mutually exclusive.

Rather than reinventing the wheel, the simplest solution remains to revert Death Shroud such that damage does not overflow to the normal health pool.

@Isende

Necromancer has the same endurance as all classes; however, we have extremely limited access to Vigor.

Many class can maintain permanent or near permanent vigor, whereas necromancers can get only 9 seconds of it on a 50 second cooldown, using two utilities slots. (Blood is Power and Well of Power)

One top of this every class in the game has access to at least one block, evade, or invulnerablity move. (Making insta-down/assist-trains much much more avoidable.)

Not a full list but:

Necromancer:

*Vigor 9sec on 50sec CD (40sec Traited) requires two utilities

Elementalist:

*Vigor 5sec on Crit with 5 sec CD
*Vigor 6sec on Cantrip use
*Invuln 4sec on 50sec CD (Focus)
*Projectile Reflect 5sec on 30sec CD (Staff)
*Projectile Destroy 6sec on 30 CD (Focus)
*Block 5sec/3atks on 75sec CD (Arcane Shield)
*Invuln 3sec on 75sec CD (Mist Form)
*Invuln 3sec on 45sec CD (Earth Shield)

Warrior:

*Vigor 10sec on 20sec CD (Warhorn)
*Vigor 8sec when you use a Stance
*Block 3sec on 30sec CD (Shield)
*Evade 3/4sec on 10sec (Greatsword)
*Invuln 4sec on 60sec (Enduring Stance)
*Block 1atk on 15sec CD (Sword OH)

Ranger

*Vigor 10sec on 40sec CD (Lightning Reflexes)
*Vigor 5sec on 15sec CD (when crit)
*Vigor 5sec or 3sec/pulse on Heal
*Vigor 5sec when swap to Moa/Bird/Jellyfish
*Evade 1sec in AA chain
*Evade 3/4sec on 40sec CD (Lightning Reflexes)
*Invuln 6sec on 60sec CD (Protect Me)
*Evade 1/2sec on 8sec CD (Sword)
*Evade 3/4sec on 15sec CD (Sword)
*Evade 1 1/4sec on 10sec CD (Dagger OH)

Guardian:

*Vigor 10sec on 60sec CD (Save Yourself!)
*Vigor 5sec on 5sec CD (on Crit)
*Aegis on 60sec CD (Virtue of Courage)
*Block 2sec on 30sec CD (Shelter)
*Projectile Destroy 6sec on 120sec CD (Sanctuary)
*Projectile Reflect 10sec on 40sec CD (Wall of Reflection)
*Aegis on 60sec CD (Retreat!)
*Invuln 3sec on 90sec CD (Renewed Focus)

Thief:

*Vigor 15sec on 35sec (untraited) CD (Steal)
*Vigor 8sec on Heal
*Evade 3/4sec on 15sec CD (Withdraw)
*Dodge returns some Endurance (Feline Grace)
*Stealth

Engineer:

*Vigor 5sec on 5sec CD when gaining swiftness (Swiftness can be gained on Crit)
*Projectile Reflect 3sec on 30sec CD (Shield)
*Block 2sec on 40sec CD (Shield)
*Block 3sec on 20sec CD (Gear Shield)
*Invuln 3sec on 60sec CD (Elixir S)
*Projectile Reflect on 15sec CD (Air Blast)

Mesmer:

*Evade 1~4sec Evade on 60sec CD (Distortion)
*Vigor 5sec on 5sec CD (on Crit)
*Vigor 5sec/Illusion Shattered
*Projectile Block on 25sec CD (pWarden)
*Block 2sec on 15sec CD (Sword OH)
*Evade 2 1/2sec on 12sec CD (Sword)
*Block 2sec on 12sec CD (Scepter)
*Projectile Reflect 2sec on 15sec CD (Mirror)
*Projectile Reflect 6sec on 40sec CD (Feedback)
*Focus can be traited to Reflect Projectiles
*Stealth

Honestly I love the flavour of the Necromancer but an “expensive” at will block/evade/invulnerability would greatly improve the class, without increasing its overall power.

@Kraag Deadsoul.2789

I don’t disagree with just reverting the deathshroud overflow change either, but I really doubt they will, so instead I was looking for a solution that promoted good lifeforce management. (Versus gain 10% and pop to absorb a hit.)

Either way (my suggestion or reverting Deathshroud absorb) it still puts Necromancers significantly behind other classes in active defense.

Myrkr.5803:

@Kraag Deadsoul.2789

I don’t disagree with just reverting the deathshroud overflow change either, but I really doubt they will, so instead I was looking for a solution that promoted good lifeforce management. (Versus gain 10% and pop to absorb a hit.)

Either way (my suggestion or reverting Deathshroud absorb) it still puts Necromancers significantly behind other classes in active defense.

Sadly, I believe you’re right. Even though it was never truly an OP mechanic and there was no reasonable justification for nerfing it. It took skill, timing, and good resource (life force) management to use it as a de facto block. A block that – under ideal circumstances – could only be used once every 10 seconds if the necromancer had sufficient life force built up.

The irony of it is early in the game the necro community was told by a developer to, “Learn to Death Shroud.” And we did exactly that; we learned how to use Death Shroud as our means of active defense. Then, after having mastered it, they nerfed it.

The reason given for the nerf was that a necro used Death Shroud to survive a fall outside the map (and which, if I recall correctly, was unintentional; they were knocked off a ledge in a PvP map and popped DS) and was able to see parts that no player was intended to see (possibly areas under development).

Instead of taking the measured step of putting counters in place to prevent players from accessing these zones (insta-death, invisible walls, teleporting the player out of the zone, etc.) they simply came down hard with the nerf hammer on necro’s Death Shroud.

So you see, the nerf wasn’t because Death Shroud was being used to block damage or survive falls from cliffs in WvWvW; that was never an issue for the 10 months preceding it. Never once was there a post complaning, “Nerf necros! They’re so OP because they can jump off cliffs and survive the fall!” or “Nerf Death Shroud! Necros use it to absorb a hit from Subject Alpha in Crucible of Eternity!”

It was nerfed because they didn’t want necros surviving a fall into an area outside the map. There were better ways to resolve this – many of which were suggested by the necro community itself – than removing our one source of active defense.

Your suggestion isn’t a bad one. It’s well written and well thought out. It’s just that I’m tired of the necro community having to come up with band-aid solutions to the developers’ short-comings with regards to our profession. It’s like the abuse victim who tries to apologize and excuse the behavior of the abuser and then falls all over themselves trying to make things better. That shouldn’t be our responsibility.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789
It was nerfed because they didn’t want necros surviving a fall into an area outside the map. There were better ways to resolve this – many of which were suggested by the necro community itself – than removing our one source of active defense.

It’s just that I’m tired of the necro community having to come up with band-aid solutions to the developers’ short-comings with regards to our profession.

I agree and I think that is the thing that a lot of people miss is Necro /was/ fine for activate defense until they removed the Deathshroud absorb. I just wish they would compensate that change with something.

Honestly I have done every bit of meaningful content (FotM 40, Arah all Paths, CoE, WvW, tPvP solo and team, and Liadri) in this game on my Necro, both before and after the patch, and was able to complete it. Its just more challenging. (If you waste a dodge, you don’t have 9 (exaggeration) other safety blankets.)

Hopefully more threads like this (particularly comparison to other classes active defenses) will make them realize this is an issue.

Necromancers don’t need any more defensive skills.

Our defenses is in our offensive CC. The best skill that describe this is Doom.

Many times, thieves tried to burst me down with HS. One fear and their spike is gone. After that, Dark Binding or other snares will make HS spam worthless.

@runeblade.7514

For PvP 1v1 I agree. Assist-train in WvW or tPVP team fights it is not even close to what a 2sec Block can do. (An entire bar of Lifeforce is significantly less in some cases of multi-player burst.)

On top of that in PvE almost all enemies we would want an active defense for have defience and are immune to our CCs. (Or the AoE that one-shots us through deathshroud goes of regardless of the bosses state.)

Lupi – Arah all Paths
CoE – Alpha
Queens Guantlet – Liadri
Fractals – Dredge Boss, Cliffside Boss, etc

(All require a dodge – which can be done with two dodges if you are very careful. Every other class has far far more then two dodges. See the second post I put in this thread.)

Don’t get me wrong I love our CCs and I love Deathshroud but the idea behind this suggestion is not to increase our 1v1 ability, in fact (except for an ele with stability doing a full burst) it would actually be worse to use because it costs lifeforce. The idea is to increase our defense against team burst and insta-down PvE attacks.

Myrkr.5803:

@runeblade.7514

For PvP 1v1 I agree. tPVP team fights it is not even close to what a 2sec Block can do.

In that case, you can use Staff 3 + 4 for area weakness and then use spectral armor.

58-83% damage reduction. Your hp pool should be high enough to survive a focus.

Myrkr.5803:

Kraag Deadsoul.2789
It was nerfed because they didn’t want necros surviving a fall into an area outside the map. There were better ways to resolve this – many of which were suggested by the necro community itself – than removing our one source of active defense.

It’s just that I’m tired of the necro community having to come up with band-aid solutions to the developers’ short-comings with regards to our profession.

I agree and I think that is the thing that a lot of people miss is Necro /was/ fine for activate defense until they removed the Deathshroud absorb. I just wish they would compensate that change with something.

Honestly I have done every bit of meaningful content (FotM 40, Arah all Paths, CoE, WvW, tPvP solo and team, and Liadri) in this game on my Necro, both before and after the patch, and was able to complete it. Its just more challenging. (If you waste a dodge, you don’t have 9 (exaggeration) other safety blankets.)

*Hopefully more threads like this (particularly comparison to other classes active defenses) will make them realize this is an issue. *

That’s the sad part; there were plenty of threads discussing this and not a one received a single dev response.

Anyone else getting tired of this?

Aren’t we worse off now?

Can Death Shroud actually be balanced?

Death Shroud brainstorming

DeathShroud is now base 100% HP

Defensive Suggestions

July 23rd patch notes: hidden buffs edition

Necro Demotivational Poster

Necromancer’s only defense!

Respect for Necro Mains

sPvP forum to dictate the future of Necros

with new dhumfire patch

Would you like some cake?

However, I’m glad you started this thread, Myrkr. I think the devs’ secret hope is that we would just forget about this and it could be swept under the rug. Ain’t happenin’ ! Necros are the only profession with no defense against 1-hit-kills. The profession the devs have stated they expect to facetank everything, yet nerf our ability to facetank. LOL! Well done, ArenaNet! Death Shroud is not a substitute ever since the overflow damage mechanic was introduced.

The simplest solution (since the code already exists for it and requires practically no programmer time) is to revert Death Shroud back to the state it was prior to July 23rd, 2013 in which we were able to absorb a single hit of any amount provided we had sufficient life force to enter Death Shroud (with the consequent loss of that life force and forced exit from the DS state).

Personally, I’m in agreement with the devs’ sentiments that necros should have no access to block, evade, invulnerability, leaps, or stealth. I don’t want those boons as a necro. It’s not necro-y; no argument from me. I just want to be able to skillfully manage my life force and time my Death Shroud just right to absorb that incoming hit like I was able prior to July 23rd. If you want to take away the ability to survive a fall from any height, I’d even be willing to live with that as a compromise (fun though it was).

Failing that, we need some form of active defense as suggested by Myrkr and others; even if it breaks with the theme or “feel” of the profession. Hitpoints in this game is not a substitute for active defense when one-shotted by bosses and champs.

runeblade.7514

In that case, you can use Staff 3 + 4 for area weakness and then use spectral armor.

58-83% damage reduction. Your hp pool should be high enough to survive a focus.

It helps and as said before I play a fair amount of sPvP, but the entire game is not sPvP. Nor would this change make Necro OP in sPvP. (Generating the 50% Lifeforce required to use it and it burning 25% is a huge resource barrier in sPvP.)

Kraag Deadsoul.2789

I think the devs’ secret hope is that we would just forget about this and it could be swept under the rug. Ain’t happenin’ ! Necros are the only profession with no defense against 1-hit-kills. The profession the devs have stated they expect to facetank everything, yet nerf our ability to facetank. LOL!

Exactly, figured it couldn’t hurt to spitball some ideas and let them know we haven’t forgotten.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789

Hitpoints in this game is not a substitute for active defense when one-shotted by bosses and champs.

Again agreed, particularly when the insta-down mechanic is so often used. (or in some cases, like Lupi, getting hit actually actively hurts your group.)

Gnat.9405

Does Engi have access to vigor and/or viable and reliable stun breakers?

I missed your post, but yes engineers with infused precision (firearms) and invigorating speed (alchemy) have 100% uptime on vigor (With decent critical chance) and the most blocks in the game.

Also engineers have six potential stun breaks on, 60sec, 50sec, 40sec, 40sec, 45sec, and 45sec cooldowns.

Necros have five potential stun breaks on, 40sec, 60sec, 60sec, 60sec, and 50sec.

(In both cases the cooldowns are untraited values.)

I see, I play Necro almost exclusively and haven’t even tried Engi. I’m also mostly WvW and PvE player so some of the more prominent builds designed specifically for PvP I’m unfamilar with.

I know that a lot of complaints come from a couple facts. One being that for Necro to have reliability in mobility, you have to stretch so far out of certain areas of effect that you’re pigeonholed into a sub-par build. Like I said I may not be the most knowledgeable source to speak on this but I like to stay up to date in all areas of Necro community.

Another (and one that I can closer relate to) is the fact that they removed DS ability to absorb big hits, but gave zero compensation for the loss of a significant defense. I understand that Necromancer is supposed to be amongst the most aggressive classes, and it certainly shows, but there are some core aspects of all professions that seems lacking in the Necro.

@Gnat.9405

I also play Necro almost exclusively (I have tried most other classes to get a feel for them and theorycraft counters etc.) and agree the Deathshroud absorb removal without any form of active defense compensation is what caused the problem.

Personally I don’t hate our lack of mobility (I would love more) and love that we are supposed to be an attrition class. If we have to commit to every fight with little hope of escape, I at least want some tools to allow us some survival in team fights. As well as the ability to survive the insta-down pve attacks more often.

I think my favorite suggestions are the ones that offer we have some sort of endurance siphon ability

Myrkr.5803:

runeblade.7514

In that case, you can use Staff 3 + 4 for area weakness and then use spectral armor.

58-83% damage reduction. Your hp pool should be high enough to survive a focus.

It helps and as said before I play a fair amount of sPvP, but the entire game is not sPvP. Nor would this change make Necro OP in sPvP. (Generating the 50% Lifeforce required to use it and it burning 25% is a huge resource barrier in sPvP.)

I am going to talk about the PvE side now. PvE has so many wrongs in it that makes Necromancer worthless. It made PvE too dodge-dependent. 99% of the Necromancer’s tool are worthless in PvE. If a fix were to be made, I rather have Necromancer’s tools to be worthwhile than having PvE to be saturated into a dodgefest.

For example,

• All mobs get a 10% passive speed boost, a single chill, cripple, immobilization decrease the mob’s speed but also removes the passive speed boost. Ranged mobs will kite melee players, so ranged weapons become much more useful
• Mobs getting an increased attack speed. This will make weakness much more worthy.
• Prevent mob stacking in the first place, this will make single target skills much more useful.
• Disabling skills like Fear actually become worth using. Example of that is mob displaying teamwork. When a mob tries to self-heals, other mobs will prevent your party from killing the low health mobs. Another example is CC mobs will stun-lock one of your party members and another one will kill him. A single disturbance on one of the mobs, like fear, may actually effect the battle.
• Boons become way more common so that Boon removal will not be a niche.

These small fraction of a change will give a tremendous impact to control and support role. It will give necromancers more depth than dodge-fest will ever do. Also, Necromancer getting vigor for PvE will effect PvP Necromancer no matter if you care about PvP or not. I believe that PvE itself should be changed, not the necromancer.

Newer mechanics put some unblockable heavy hits on the bosses (p.e. Svanir champion at maw chain). A full block of any attack will make the necro better than every other class.

runeblade.7514

Also, Necromancer getting vigor for PvE will effect PvP Necromancer no matter if you care about PvP or not.

Never did I ask for Vigor on Necro, I suggested an evade or block at a significant cost to Lifeforce. Also I love and care about sPvP along with every other aspect of this game. (Proudly PvX)

Horst Hortensie

A full block of any attack will make the necro better than every other class.

My suggestion actually addresses that, by not just reverting the Deathshroud absorb, my suggestion would give Necromancer the standard Block/Evade/Invulnerable that other classes already have. And again it gives it at a cost of the Necromancer Lifeforce which is often used as a passive defense (more Health).

Gnat.9405

I think my favorite suggestions are the ones that offer we have some sort of endurance siphon ability

Wouldn’t mind that either, but the main reason I suggested the block/evade/invuln cost Lifeforce is that Necromancer have alot of Health (when you factor in Lifeforce), so having a high amount of endurance to evade really could make us OP.

Myrkr.5803:

runeblade.7514

Also, Necromancer getting vigor for PvE will effect PvP Necromancer no matter if you care about PvP or not.

Never did I ask for Vigor on Necro, I suggested an evade or block at a significant cost to Lifeforce. Also I love and care about sPvP along with every other aspect of this game. (Proudly PvX)

It doesn’t matter, vigor increases the rate of dodging and dodging is just pseudo-version of blocking/evasion. What matter is that your solution will not fix the problem to Necromancer’s role in dungeon/PvE. PvP necromancers are fine and do not need buffs.

I rather have all of the necromancer tools be useful in dungeons than necromancer be buffed and I rather have dev change the dungeon than some stupid band-aid fix like your suggestion.

runeblade.7514

I rather have all of the necromancer tools be useful in dungeons than necromancer be buffed and I rather have dev change the dungeon than some stupid band-aid fix like your suggestion.

I’d love the tools we already have to be more useful in PvE as well, but honestly I cannot see them changing an entire mode of play at this point. Especially when they “fixed” fear bypassing defiance (about 6 months after the game came out) and the dodge or die mechanic becoming more common.

Either way my, whether my suggestion is the “Best” one or a “Stupid” one, at least people are discussing that it is an issue. (Particularly in PvE/WvW) So keep the ball rolling and alternative suggestions coming.

Informed by guildies I missed a few abilities in the list above

Guardian:
*Vigor 10sec on 60sec CD (Save Yourself!)
*Vigor 5sec on 5sec CD (on Crit)
*Aegis on 60sec CD (Virtue of Courage)
*Block 2sec on 30sec CD (Shelter)
*Projectile Destroy 6sec on 120sec CD (Sanctuary)
*Projectile Reflect 10sec on 40sec CD (Wall of Reflection)
*Aegis on 60sec CD (Retreat!)
*Invuln 3sec on 90sec CD (Renewed Focus)

Block 4sec (3 atk) on 45sec CD (Focus OH)

Thief:
*Vigor 15sec on 35sec (untraited) CD (Steal)
*Vigor 8sec on Heal
*Evade 3/4sec on 15sec CD (Withdraw)
*Dodge returns some Endurance (Feline Grace)
*Stealth

Evade 3/4sec on 60sec CD (Roll for Initiative)

I really hope the devs read the comments made by the necro community for a change, and undo the damage they’ve done to Death Shroud. It’s okay to make a mistake, as long as you’re willing to fix what was destroyed.

This certainly explains why my necro seems a little more squishy than it used to. I had to respec/retrait to add toughness at a cost to power and some vit. Anyone know what the exact patch date was so I can go and read the release notes myself? FYI, more necro nerfs coming with the Dec 10th patch. :/ Warriors too…

Myrkr.5803:

@Isende

Many class can maintain permanent or near permanent vigor, whereas necromancers can get only 9 seconds of it on a 50 second cooldown, using two utilities slots. (Blood is Power and Well of Power)

Thanks for this! I actually didn’t realize that bleed is converted to vigor! Let alone a 9 second vigor not depending on the duration bleedstack. I was already carrying blood is power and well of power, and it has actually helped me quite a bit to have access to vigor. If I know I’m dueling a class that doesn’t have all that much condi, I can access vigor instead, in this case I don’t feel like I have wasted a slot on well of power

Thanks for the info!

runeblade.7514:

Necromancers don’t need any more defensive skills.

Our defenses is in our offensive CC. The best skill that describe this is Doom.

Many times, thieves tried to burst me down with HS. One fear and their spike is gone. After that, Dark Binding or other snares will make HS spam worthless.

Sad news is we don’t only fight thieves. I don’t have an issue with thieves either.

Try doing that (doom works because it is instant cast, but try using chill or blind) while getting chain interrupted by warriors or engineers.

Lack of stability is a problem as well.

Dietzen

Thanks for this! I actually didn’t realize that bleed is converted to vigor! Let alone a 9 second vigor not depending on the duration bleedstack.

No problem That plus having a wall wurm (or a wurm that can actually hit him if you like to live dangerously) make Lupi a much more Necro friendly fight. (The Wurm-a-Port gets you out of green bubbles fast.)

Still would trade it all for some kind of active defense, mind you!