Guild Wars 2

Number 5: Guesting and Realms

I was sad about guesting and realms ever since Anet announced players would be bound to separate worlds. Anet was trying really hard to push the whole ‘server pride’ thing in PvE, but I think most people naturally relate to their guild or group of friends more than their server.
Guild wars 1 had districts which were basically the same as stacking overflow servers for each zone. This system of districts allowed Anet to dynamically adjust according to the the popularity of the town, so that no town would be completely desolate or unbearably crowded.
Especially before guesting was implemented (but even after it to an extent), the fact that your PvE world inseparable to your WvW world helped create the population imbalance. Many people wanted to go to the low-medium worlds for lower queue times, but that meant purpetually empty PvE zones. So if you or your guild was PvX that was a pretty bad deal.

I have also come across some counter arguments.

Because dynamic events have a persisting effect on the world (ok they really don’t, but they’re supposed to), each overflow will have their own different little world. Every time the player re-enters the zone and gets put into another overflow, everything is different, the village he saved against the centaurs in the previous overflow is burned down, etc.

Number 8: Loot and Magic Find
Definitely agree. Either MF benefits need to extend to everyone in your party (for an instance), or it needs to be scrapped for a better self imposed difficulty system that doesn’t hurt your team. GW1 had hard mode. Other MMOs have instances that let players scale the difficulty for increased rewards.

Number 4, 6, 10
These things are limited by available resources and developer time more than anything else. WoW excels in these areas over Anet because Blizzard has these resources to polish their game until it shines.

NornBearPig.9814:

Number 5: Guesting and Realms
Because dynamic events have a persisting effect on the world (ok they really don’t, but they’re supposed to), each overflow will have their own different little world. Every time the player re-enters the zone and gets put into another overflow, everything is different, the village he saved against the centaurs in the previous overflow is burned down, etc.

Because most events reset to fast I didn’t even consider that an issue. And for the larger ones that are (like the world bosses or statues) the algorithm could put you in a server that had compelted them. I breifly mention this at 20:52.

NornBearPig.9814:

Number 8: Loot and Magic Find
Definitely agree. Either MF benefits need to extend to everyone in your party (for an instance), or it needs to be scrapped for a better self imposed difficulty system that doesn’t hurt your team. GW1 had hard mode. Other MMOs have instances that let players scale the difficulty for increased rewards.

A few people have mentioned extending Magic find to benfit the whole party. Hard mode is a great example. I also threw up the idea of “Magic Find Skills” you could equip that would have obvious animations for groups that wanted more magic find.

Number 4, 6, 10
These things are limited by available resources and developer time more than anything else. WoW excels in these areas over Anet because Blizzard has these resources to polish their game until it shines.

And even WoW took YEARS to get it right.

Also funny how you talk about resources and developer time when they add things like 1 time events. Which, in the long term, don’t affect us as much as let’s say… bug fixes, UI additions and other smaller things they could focus on.

They are literally throwing away their resources away.

I like these story events but i’d rather have a polished game with awesome everything rather than a mediocre story which lasts for a couple of months and then forgotten about.

Torguish.4786:

Also funny how you talk about resources and developer time when they add things like 1 time events. Which, in the long term, don’t affect us as much as let’s say… bug fixes, UI additions and other smaller things they could focus on.

They are literally throwing away their resources away.

I like these story events but i’d rather have a polished game with awesome everything rather than a mediocre story which lasts for a couple of months and then forgotten about.

Yeah, If they added more personal story events like the one The Balrog got (11:13) slowly they’d steadily build more permenant content into the game. Could also be used to fill out the quieter zones.

Hey Kaboose saw you moved it here and to Guru2, will not use Guru2 anymore it’s a troll free for all over there anymore. I saw in fan generated there is the plea for steeds. Being from gw1 myself, I ran everywhere. There were no wp’s in PvE. I really do not want steeds, at least for a year or longer. Let them iron out other issues before they throw another wrench into the mix. Honestly if we never got steeds I’d still be OK. In my generation we walked a lot as kids in rl, the newest generations now wants to become virtually lazy.

Krynn Bowlroaster.8429:

Hey Kaboose saw you moved it here and to Guru2, will not use Guru2 anymore it’s a troll free for all over there anymore. I saw in fan generated there is the plea for steeds. Being from gw1 myself, I ran everywhere. There were no wp’s in PvE. I really do not want steeds, at least for a year or longer. Let them iron out other issues before they throw another wrench into the mix. Honestly if we never got steeds I’d still be OK. In my generation we walked a lot as kids in rl, the newest generations now wants to become virtually lazy.

Never mentioned mounts because I believe it’s not a good idea. The Guru2 forum post for this, is for the most part, a good level headed discussion on what could be done to improve the game, going over potenial por’s and cons’s of each propsed solution.
Seems almost trollish in of itself to throw a “back in my day” into your post as well.

Krynn Bowlroaster.8429:

Hey Kaboose saw you moved it here and to Guru2, will not use Guru2 anymore it’s a troll free for all over there anymore. I saw in fan generated there is the plea for steeds. Being from gw1 myself, I ran everywhere. There were no wp’s in PvE. I really do not want steeds, at least for a year or longer. Let them iron out other issues before they throw another wrench into the mix. Honestly if we never got steeds I’d still be OK. In my generation we walked a lot as kids in rl, the newest generations now wants to become virtually lazy.

While i agree that mounts shouldn’t be rushed and everything else should be ironed out before they get added, I have multiple good reasons for steeds or mounts and yes, i did walk too when i was younger.

1) Mostly cosmetic

And by the word ’’mostly’’ i mean it could give something like a 25 – 30% movement speed bonus. Think about how would things like legendary mounts look. Faction mounts, mounts recieved from instances etc.
This could be something really, really epic.

2) Something other to farm and achieve other than PRETTY gear.
Seriously now, i have achieved my epic level of coolness, not the only thing missing in my opinion is a motorcycle from my charr. I’m literally sick and tired of having nothing new to look forward to in… anything. Always gear, which in the end, looks the same and makes no difference what so ever.

I just want a really cool hard to get mount with what i can boast to other people and be all like ‘’look at my amazing steed, let your eyes feast on it.’’

Because that’s the only reason to farm in this game really. There’s just no variety in farming anything anymore. I’m bored.

3) I don’t have use up the kitten skill slot to run 25% faster outside of combat.

Covered in point 1. I seriously hate to run annoying short distances, specially on my newer characters.

4) No real reason not to have them.

It adds immersion
It fits the lore
It adds variety to the endless grinding
It creates life (Stables in the cities, guards patrolling on horses)
We already have cars and whatnot at the black citadel.
Some classes don’t have a passive running like rangers or thieves.
Cosmetics! Which the game is mostly about.

While i do agree that they should not add mounts before everything else is ironed out.

And if implemented in a bad way, it could be a bad influence in the game but it, in my opinion, it’s rather hard to get it wrong. Not to mention the reasons not have them which people have thrown around are really useless shouts which have no substance of facts, just their opinion based on something like ‘’some games did it first’’.

I mean, at the moment, the cities look really bland with everyone standing around and we have empty stable like areas which are not in any use in multiple areas. Not to mention not having mounts seems to me just a huge step backwards.

It doesn’t make SENSE.

They could add something like:
- Only usable mounts in areas where you fully explored everything.
- Shared on characters
- Because i’m sick of running some areas twice. It’s mind numbing and annoying.
- Drive your friends around!
- Not usable in PvP.

Dueling, definitely dueling. Now please.

Kaaboose.3897:

Because most events reset to fast I didn’t even consider that an issue. And for the larger ones that are (like the world bosses or statues) the algorithm could put you in a server that had compelted them. I breifly mention this at 20:52.

Does that mean each player kills the world bosses once in their character’s lifetime unless they guest on a newer player’s overflow?

Kaaboose.3897:

I also threw up the idea of “Magic Find Skills” you could equip that would have obvious animations for groups that wanted more magic find.

Can you elaborate on what magic find skills are? Like poach from final fantasy games? Or low powered duplicates of existing skills?

People have a mis-conception on how magic find works, first off

Gear does not determine a players skill, if your looking for a speed run and want the best of the best gear then someone not in X gear will always be counter productive to your cause. In a non speed run, players in MF can survive and last just as long as the next person as it goes off of personal skill. Sure not having all Zerker gear means you don’t kill as fast, but lets face it that extends to anyone not in all zerker gear not just magic find.

Secondly, magic find boost the party.

Loot tables do not work off of party, each player has an individual loot table that is in not way affected by any party memeber. MF simply allows a player to have a higher chance at getting a better drop in the game for him self, it does allow a player to gain more drops. This also means that they wittness Diminishing Returns faster on the loot table, than someone not in MF gear. So in turn a group of 5 will never be affected as far as their loot drops by the 1 guy in MF as the loot tables are personal to the player not the group.

If you don’t want Magic find in your party then state that on your LFG spam or post. A lot of players that use MF generally never try and join those groups, anyhow. cause in the end to find out if MF is truly a problem you have to look at these facts

• can a group in MF complete the dungeon
• can a group in MF succeed in hard task in the set scenario

not

• do they do as much damage
• do they last as long

Those last two are to the players skill. Lets face it people blame MF for bad players skill all the time, then insist that Zerker gear is the only way to go, and yet I have run fractals level 28 with a person in all Zerker gear, 6 Ascended items 2 of them infused ( again all zerker stats) that was downed and died at least 20+ times in the length one on fractals of 4. Yet a Guild mate of mine in yellows and 3 pieces of ascended gear and half MF gear died 1 and was downed once in the course of 4 fractal runs. He only died on Jade maw form one agony burst. If your going on a witch hunt to chasties MF gear you better start with Zerker gear also, since usually anymob so much as breaths at them they die or downed, which means all that damage output they geared for means nothing if they are dead or downed.

Upto number 5 currently. Love the video.

Outlines some easy fixes Anet needs to implement. Developers listen up, the majority of this is (from my experience) the definitive list of player complaints and suggestions consolidated.

Definitely agree with 5 as a special mention. No idea why the world system is there outside wvw. With the system mentioned in the video, anytype of current player community currently in guild wars 2 will remain exactly the same anyway.

NornBearPig.9814:

Does that mean each player kills the world bosses once in their character’s lifetime unless they guest on a newer player’s overflow?

I was thinking more along the lines of a few days to a week. And with a robust LFG system you could use that to find an overflow with the boss near spawning if that is what you want. A LOT of these points are intertwined with one another.

NornBearPig.9814:

Can you elaborate on what magic find skills are? Like poach from final fantasy games? Or low powered duplicates of existing skills?

It was just an idea that came up on the guru forums. I could see something like poach from FF working but I was thinking more like the way the MF sigils work (a stacking buff) but built into a skill that can easily be switched in or out depending on the situation.
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1. PvP – the whole

Kaimick.5109:

Wall Of Text

Kaimick, the problem with MF is that is ONLY benifits the player running it. You can say how player skill is more important than gear, and I certinly agree with you on this, but a skiled player running normal gear IS (statisiticly) going to benifit his team more then a skilled player in regular gear.
And comparing MF to non-zerker gear is not a good comaparison. A player running Apocracerys might be doing less dmg, but they’ll be offering more healing.
Same could be said for a player running soildeirs. Less dmg, but capable of taking more hits. (Which if he died, might be hits directed at you)
However a player running MF is offering nothing else to his group in place of the stats lost.
I stand my stance that players running MF are being selfish by putting their needs above the group.

Kaaboose.3897:

Kaimick.5109:

Wall Of Text

Kaimick, the problem with MF is that is ONLY benifits the player running it. You can say how player skill is more important than gear, and I certinly agree with you on this, but a skiled player running normal gear IS (statisiticly) going to benifit his team more then a skilled player in regular gear.
And comparing MF to non-zerker gear is not a good comaparison. A player running Apocracerys might be doing less dmg, but they’ll be offering more healing.
Same could be said for a player running soildeirs. Less dmg, but capable of taking more hits. (Which if he died, might be hits directed at you)
However a player running MF is offering nothing else to his group in place of the stats lost.
I stand my stance that players running MF are being selfish by putting their needs above the group.

What they offer is not the case what is completed is the case, be it selfish or not if a dungeon can be complete with no issues from a good player, then why is it an issue, because you would rather blame a stat becuase you don’t think it is optimal? Plain and simple harsh truth for players that go on witch hunts against magic find.

• Magic find doesn’t affect the sucess of a dungeon, players do
• Arena Net keeps adding more Magic find gear, they obviously don’t think it is an uissue either.
• Your using bad players as an excuse to chastise a stat is wrong.

Yet I see nothing about people in all zerker gear that die constaintly becuase they have no survivability, yet something that gives a “Selfish” stat is the bane of your game playign experince. Doesn’t matter that a player is dead 80% of the time and the knights gear person dies also cause the zerker wasn’t there contributing his share to the fight. If Magic find is selfish, then zerkers is just as selfish, to max out your self to do high damage and no survivability what so ever just so you see larger numbers.

Bottom line is if the guy in MF never dies during a run or never goes down, and everyone else not in MF gear goes to a down state or dies just once then the MF gear person is pulling their wieght in helping the group.

To quote you from your video,
How is it fair someone is doing less than me and getting better loot.
How is it fair that someone is dead 80% of the fight and still gets loot and possiably better than me.
Stop worryign about what the other person is doing and worry about your self. If your dungeon run is sucessfull with no draw backs then how much or what another person is doing should be none of your concearn. You suggest a pary wide MF buff, from plaers that have it, yet you don’t want to stat it, now who is being selfish. You want the buff go get it, you don’t want the buff cause you obviously feel it is a detriment then don’t use it, again arena net see’s no issue, just becuase you do doesn’t make it an issue.

Good points. You did forget the top thing that needs improvement though: SPvP.

Video might get taken more serious if you didn’t swear or burp in it. Not sure whether that was supposed to be humour or what, it certainly brought the IQ level down on the video itself.

Kaaboose.3897:

Kaimick.5109:

Wall Of Text

Kaimick, the problem with MF is that is ONLY benifits the player running it. You can say how player skill is more important than gear, and I certinly agree with you on this, but a skiled player running normal gear IS (statisiticly) going to benifit his team more then a skilled player in regular gear.
And comparing MF to non-zerker gear is not a good comaparison. A player running Apocracerys might be doing less dmg, but they’ll be offering more healing.
Same could be said for a player running soildeirs. Less dmg, but capable of taking more hits. (Which if he died, might be hits directed at you)
However a player running MF is offering nothing else to his group in place of the stats lost.
I stand my stance that players running MF are being selfish by putting their needs above the group.

Yes someone with magic find offers less of statistical help, but so does certain classes, lets remove classes like Rangers from being able to enter dungeons because as we can already see, Warriors do everything better statistically.

Statistically certain builds are worse than other builds and offer less to the group in dungeons, we should also disallow them for being used in group play.
Statistically there are far worse problems then MF gear in dungeons.

Varyag.3751:

Good points. You did forget the top thing that needs improvement though: SPvP.

One could argue that falls under lack of polish and optimization.. then again so can nearly every point, that’s why it’s point No. 1.

Kaaboose.3897:

One could argue that falls under lack of polish and optimization.. then again so can nearly every point, that’s why it’s point No. 1.

Lack of content or depth doesn’t fall under the category of “polish and optimization”.

Kaimick.5109:

Kaaboose.3897:

Kaimick.5109:

Wall Of Text

Kaimick, the problem with MF is that is ONLY benifits the player running it. You can say how player skill is more important than gear, and I certinly agree with you on this, but a skiled player running normal gear IS (statisiticly) going to benifit his team more then a skilled player in regular gear.
And comparing MF to non-zerker gear is not a good comaparison. A player running Apocracerys might be doing less dmg, but they’ll be offering more healing.
Same could be said for a player running soildeirs. Less dmg, but capable of taking more hits. (Which if he died, might be hits directed at you)
However a player running MF is offering nothing else to his group in place of the stats lost.
I stand my stance that players running MF are being selfish by putting their needs above the group.

Same thing that was said in the last wall of text

Yet I see nothing about people in all zerker gear that die constaintly becuase they have no survivability, yet something that gives a “Selfish” stat is the bane of your game playign experince. Doesn’t matter that a player is dead 80% of the time and the knights gear person dies also cause the zerker wasn’t there contributing his share to the fight. If Magic find is selfish, then zerkers is just as selfish, to max out your self to do high damage and no survivability what so ever just so you see larger numbers.

Bottom line is if the guy in MF never dies during a run or never goes down, and everyone else not in MF gear goes to a down state or dies just once then the MF gear person is pulling their wieght in helping the group.

To quote you from your video,
How is it fair someone is doing less than me and getting better loot.
How is it fair that someone is dead 80% of the fight and still gets loot and possiably better than me.
Stop worryign about what the other person is doing and worry about your self. If your dungeon run is sucessfull with no draw backs then how much or what another person is doing should be none of your concearn. You suggest a pary wide MF buff, from plaers that have it, yet you don’t want to stat it, now who is being selfish. You want the buff go get it, you don’t want the buff cause you obviously feel it is a detriment then don’t use it, again arena net see’s no issue, just becuase you do doesn’t make it an issue.

Yet if that player in full zergers is good he does more dmg then the guy in MF gear. If the player in Knights is abosrbing dmg while his zerker mates dps down the mobs he does more then the guy in MF.
And if the guy in MF gear doesn’t die, it’s usually because his teamates are picking up his slack. And if he’s the last one up it’s going to become quickly aparent how little he’s doing too. I would LOVE to see a full group of MF leaches trying to run something like arah and then wonder why that can’t kill Lupi.
Stop trying to defend the selfishness of people sacrificing performance to increase their rewards, because that’s all you are doing by defending MF in Dungeons.
Oh and the party wide benifits of MF was an attempt at finding some sort of middle ground. If it was up to me it would be turned off in dungeons all together.
Oh and going by the logic that ‘anets see’s it as no issue’ can be applied to this entire video.

Varyag.3751:

Kaaboose.3897:

One could argue that falls under lack of polish and optimization.. then again so can nearly every point, that’s why it’s point No. 1.

Lack of content or depth doesn’t fall under the category of “polish and optimization”.

Oh so you’re saying that if all the classes were balanced then sPvP would still need a lot more done? I could probably agree with that, but it wouldn’t make the top 10 for me.

MeveM.7913:

Video might get taken more serious if you didn’t swear or burp in it. Not sure whether that was supposed to be humour or what, it certainly brought the IQ level down on the video itself.

Sorry friend but I’m not uptight enough to give a rats kitten about being PC over having a little harmless fun.
The belching at No. 8 is a reference to a classic Simpsons Episode BTW.

As suggested, the problem with this version iis the annoying respawn crap that makes the style of play that was a hallmark of both Diablo II and GW-1 was to carefully draw what you could handle. No more. Forget it. You try that and the stuff you killed two freaking minutes ago is going to respawn right on top of your head and you’ll get smothered.

It makes solo playing near impossible — you just have to run in and run out of places and hope you can survive. And yet they provide virtually no tools for finding groups who are aiming for the same activities.

It makes the game annoyingly frustrating in places. There needs to be far more instancing outside just the personal story that allows you — or a group, with the opposition rationally buffed — that allows you to aim for goals and accomplish them.

MeveM.7913:

Kaaboose.3897:

Kaimick.5109:

Wall Of Text

Kaimick, the problem with MF is that is ONLY benifits the player running it. You can say how player skill is more important than gear, and I certinly agree with you on this, but a skiled player running normal gear IS (statisiticly) going to benifit his team more then a skilled player in regular gear.
And comparing MF to non-zerker gear is not a good comaparison. A player running Apocracerys might be doing less dmg, but they’ll be offering more healing.
Same could be said for a player running soildeirs. Less dmg, but capable of taking more hits. (Which if he died, might be hits directed at you)
However a player running MF is offering nothing else to his group in place of the stats lost.
I stand my stance that players running MF are being selfish by putting their needs above the group.

Yes someone with magic find offers less of statistical help, but so does certain classes, lets remove classes like Rangers from being able to enter dungeons because as we can already see, Warriors do everything better statistically.

Statistically certain builds are worse than other builds and offer less to the group in dungeons, we should also disallow them for being used in group play.
Statistically there are far worse problems then MF gear in dungeons.

Warriors can’t heal as well as rangers, and they can’t lay as many combo fields. And it’s not like that ranger is trying to bring his teamates down by joining the dungeon.
Who do you think would have a better chance of joining a PUG. The ranger that is running normal gear, or a warrior that admits he’s running MF?

Kaaboose.3897:

MeveM.7913:

Kaaboose.3897:

Kaimick.5109:

Wall Of Text

Kaimick, the problem with MF is that is ONLY benifits the player running it. You can say how player skill is more important than gear, and I certinly agree with you on this, but a skiled player running normal gear IS (statisiticly) going to benifit his team more then a skilled player in regular gear.
And comparing MF to non-zerker gear is not a good comaparison. A player running Apocracerys might be doing less dmg, but they’ll be offering more healing.
Same could be said for a player running soildeirs. Less dmg, but capable of taking more hits. (Which if he died, might be hits directed at you)
However a player running MF is offering nothing else to his group in place of the stats lost.
I stand my stance that players running MF are being selfish by putting their needs above the group.

Yes someone with magic find offers less of statistical help, but so does certain classes, lets remove classes like Rangers from being able to enter dungeons because as we can already see, Warriors do everything better statistically.

Statistically certain builds are worse than other builds and offer less to the group in dungeons, we should also disallow them for being used in group play.
Statistically there are far worse problems then MF gear in dungeons.

Warriors can’t heal as well as rangers, and they can’t lay as many combo fields. And it’s not like that ranger is trying to bring his teamates down by joining the dungeon.
Who do you think would have a better chance of joining a PUG. The ranger that is running normal gear, or a warrior that admits he’s running MF?

Statistically, as that’s what you were talking about, Warriors are still a better choice than a ranger. So again, MF is the least of the problems in this instant. In dungeons pets are dead 90+% of the time or sitting next to you on passive, limiting the damage by a massive chunk. Everything else rangers can bring other than bad damage other classes can do better.

Doesn’t matter if a player removes for example toughness or vitality in favour of MF stats since all defensive stats are there to be more or less noob friendly. You mention someone soaking damage is doing more than someone with MF gear, Maybe you should ask why he’s soaking damage at all instead of dodging out of it?

Guardian is the only classes that can successfully soak anything.

So statistically, MF is a lesser problem than balancing classes.

I don’t see what the problem is, to be honest. MF amor gives power and precision, so the dps won’t be much lower.

For whatever my 2 cents are worth on this:

I feel Magic Find armor should just be gotten rid of as all it achieves is anger in a group, and unbalancing the economy. Maybe magic find food that can only be made as a feast, so everyone who wants to can take some.

My issue with the personal story is that while it was well done (never before done in an MMO that I have seen) it lacks real options! join this faction or that one, what did you choose in character creation etc. When my thief and necromancer were talking about honor and the best for their nation, i wanted to delete the characters! Thieves steal, necromancers raise the dead, where is my option to be evil, or at least not a goody two shoes! When you talk to an NPC, you have one response, no choices, other then choosing what faction you want to join, and a little bit of what path you take there, but no choices but to be the nice hero, and not every character wants that.

LFG tool- yes please, I was amazed this was not fully working at launch! further more, give rewards for being in a group, such as a magic find bonus, or karma bonus, or some reason to group in PvE. so far, the game is really a RPG where you pass other players. and even if grouping became a normal occurrence, unless a group starts a zone together and does everything together, it would fall apart when they reach a heart someone already has and doesn’t need to do. I further suggest hearts be repeatable once a day, for greatly reduced reward, so that there is more encouragement to stay with a group and to go back to lower and mid level zone.

Okay, I love this video. It’s actually constructive criticism that the devs could use when discussing improvements and changes.

I strongly agree with all but one of your points, #8, so I’d like to offer my own counterpoint. I think that adding boss and event-specific gear is a really bad idea, and it would work against your intended goal.

I don’t want to play through content because I have to, in order to be competitive or have a functional character. I want to play through content because I enjoy it. If AN wants to incentivise events and dungeons, they should tweak or redesign them to make them fun, instead of necessary.

If a friend just bought the game, I can go spend a few days playing with her and not fall behind. I can go exploring, or crafting or jump puzzling or whatever I want and not feel like I’m wasting my time. I mean, look at your example of Leeroy Jenkins. I know it was staged, but we’ve all been there before:

“Do we have to do this, or can we skip it?” “Uh, Joe needs X from this guy.” collective groan “Alright, if we have to, we’ll do it.”

By adding event or boss-specific items, this is exactly what would happen. It’s also one of the reasons WoW stopped being fun and started being a chore. There was content I wanted to play, and content I had to grind.

I’m happy there is no incentive to do anything in GW2 other than my own enjoyment. If we need more incentive to play certain dungeons, bosses or events, I think your #7 and 6 are much better options: just make that content more fun and engaging!

Rhindon.5903:

Okay, I love this video. It’s actually constructive criticism that the devs could use when discussing improvements and changes.

I strongly agree with all but one of your points, #8, so I’d like to offer my own counterpoint. I think that adding boss and event-specific gear is a really bad idea, and it would work against your intended goal.

I don’t want to play through content because I have to, in order to be competitive or have a functional character. I want to play through content because I enjoy it. If AN wants to incentivise events and dungeons, they should tweak or redesign them to make them fun, instead of necessary.

If a friend just bought the game, I can go spend a few days playing with her and not fall behind. I can go exploring, or crafting or jump puzzling or whatever I want and not feel like I’m wasting my time. I mean, look at your example of Leeroy Jenkins. I know it was staged, but we’ve all been there before:

“Do we have to do this, or can we skip it?” “Uh, Joe needs X from this guy.” collective groan “Alright, if we have to, we’ll do it.”

By adding event or boss-specific items, this is exactly what would happen. It’s also one of the reasons WoW stopped being fun and started being a chore. There was content I wanted to play, and content I had to grind.

I’m happy there is no incentive to do anything in GW2 other than my own enjoyment. If we need more incentive to play certain dungeons, bosses or events, I think your #7 and 6 are much better options: just make that content more fun and engaging!

Glad you enjoyed the video Rhindon. The thing With GW2 items is that statisicly (with the exception of ascended items) once you’re max level it’s all about the looks. A plyer wouldn’t be farming a boss for gear they NEED as in WoW, but rather gear they WANT.
I defintly agree that events need to be fun and enguaging but a little extra incentive never hurts either!

TheLazyOne.8509:

I don’t see what the problem is, to be honest. MF amor gives power and precision, so the dps won’t be much lower.

Oh dear, I’m going to do a video on just how BAD Mf gear is. Did you know the total stats on an 80 EXOTIC MF piece that effect combat are less then a WHITE lvl 80 item? And that a BLUE lvl 80 item will give more power then an exotic MF piece if it’s the major stat?

People wonder why MF is loathed so much. If you were to say “It’s skill that counts in this game, That’s why I’m in all Whites/Blues” do you think any party would take you along?

8) Magic Find: I personally have no problem with people using magic find boosts in their build. There’s no perfect ‘right way’ to create your build, and the person who uses MF is making a conscious decision to limit themselves while playing. I’m perfectly fine with this – I have no right to dictate to someone else how to build or run their character, and if they want to dip some of their benefits to increase the chance of getting rarer drops, that’s their perogative.

7) Personal Story: I would like to see the personal story expanded on / continued. It would be great to see all the choices I made through the personal story and at character creation brought into play, and I’m optimistic that ArenaNet will add more over time. I’d love to have the option of joining the Seraphs or the Shining Blade with my character, or find out what happens from saying I was blessed by Dwayna.

Other: Grinding
My sister recently found out she’d have to do a dungeon at least 25 times to get an outfit she’s after. She’s only interested in the story mode of dungeons, as part of her personal story, she’s got no interest in grinding through it in exploration mode. Origianlly, we were under the impression you got one piece of armour each time you went through. Six times to get a set? Certainly, that takes a bit of work, and a bit of time, but that’s not too bad. But tipping over the 20 mark? That’s a bit… extreme. I think it would be nice if you were able to get top level things from exploring the game and seeing what the world has to offer – not grinding something repetitively and fixating on one specific aspect of the game. “Do this jumping puzzle 20 times, and you’ll get something good” would be a pain in the rump. Doing a 30-40 minute dungeon 25 times (or more if you’re unlucky) is horrific. I’ll admit, the fractals look cool, having only tried them out recently, but finding out that I actually have to grind fractals to get certain things? Seriously?

Other: Mounts
I really have trouble with the idea of mounts. Okay, admittedly it might be interesting to have something to race across the landscape with, but the thing that comes to mind quickly is that the amount of effort that would have to go into these would not be worth it – either from a design standpoint or from a game standpoint. First – there’s coming up with race-dependant mounts: What do the charr get? What do the sylvari get? What do the asura get? And norn? Second, animating these things, and then making them practical. Sure, you could use one to get from Point A to Point B, but is that seriously all you want from a mount? If a charr gets a combat bike, you know it would be designed with offence in mind. Having a human on horseback to travel might be interesting, but then I’d want to see mounted combat. What does it provide you when you’re attacking centaurs, and what about mounted weaponry? (Lance / spears come to mind, horse bows, guns…)

Next of course, what does it take to get one? If you say ‘grinding’, then forget about it. Honestly, anything a dedicated player has, a casual player should be able to get too. The only difference is that a dedicated player should have more of it. If someone hates jumping puzzles, they shouldn’t have to hit every single jumping puzzle multiple times to get a piece of candy (thankfully, there’s no need to do jumping puzzles until you’re blue in the face). Nobody should be forced to do dungeon crawls a score of times or more to get armour. Six times for a full set made sense, way back when they were talking about the game originally. That’s enough that people who hate dungeons could grit their teeth and slog through it to get the armour. Fractals are interesting, but I don’t see myself wanting to do the same fractals 6, 12, 18, 24 times to get ‘stuff’. That’s a huge investment in time I don’t have.

Other: Evil
Guess what? In Guild Wars 2 you’re playing a big kitten hero. You knew this when you signed up for the game. If you don’t want to play the big kitten hero, I’m certain there’s other games where you can be morally compromised. That’s like joining a D&D game, knowing the GM said ‘no evil alignments’, then getting ticked when he says no to your evil character. If you knew this going in, why are you complaining about it now that the campaign / story’s enforcing it? I get it, some people get their rocks off being the bad guys, but not everything has to allow you that option.

Kaaboose.3897:

TheLazyOne.8509:

I don’t see what the problem is, to be honest. MF amor gives power and precision, so the dps won’t be much lower.

Oh dear, I’m going to do a video on just how BAD Mf gear is. Did you know the total stats on an 80 EXOTIC MF piece that effect combat are less then a WHITE lvl 80 item? And that a BLUE lvl 80 item will give more power then an exotic MF piece if it’s the major stat?

People wonder why MF is loathed so much. If you were to say “It’s skill that counts in this game, That’s why I’m in all Whites/Blues” do you think any party would take you along?

I’ve compared some armor pieces to check:
Draconic MF armor vs Cultural rampager armor vs plain white lvl80 armor:
def 363 power, prec, mf: 72, 72, 3%
def 324 power prec, cond: 64, 89, 64
def 219 power ,prec, crit: 61, 43, 3%
Certainly, overall the combat efficiency will drop, that’s part of the MF trade-off, but I don’t see any huge number differences you are alluding to.
We’re running dungeons with friends semi-regularly and I’ve yet to see MF causing us any performance dips.
And so, I have to ask. If I decide to wear MF on MY character, what’s it to you exactly?
We don’t kick anyone out of our instance party, regardless of skill level, experience, even if he’s a GS warrior glass cannon who gets one-shot by any boss aoe.

Frankly, I’ve heard of the WoW link your armor nonsense, or that you need x tier gear to enter the only dungeon that drops said gear, and would love if GW2 stayed clear of that.

Oh I forgot: If MF is so loathed, why does a Sup. Traveler rune cost 1,5 gold, while others cost 20 silver?

Kaaboose.3897:

Kaimick.5109:

Kaaboose.3897:

Kaimick.5109:

Wall Of Text

Kaimick, the problem with MF is that is ONLY benifits the player running it. You can say how player skill is more important than gear, and I certinly agree with you on this, but a skiled player running normal gear IS (statisiticly) going to benifit his team more then a skilled player in regular gear.
And comparing MF to non-zerker gear is not a good comaparison. A player running Apocracerys might be doing less dmg, but they’ll be offering more healing.
Same could be said for a player running soildeirs. Less dmg, but capable of taking more hits. (Which if he died, might be hits directed at you)
However a player running MF is offering nothing else to his group in place of the stats lost.
I stand my stance that players running MF are being selfish by putting their needs above the group.

Same thing that was said in the last wall of text

Yet I see nothing about people in all zerker gear that die constaintly becuase they have no survivability, yet something that gives a “Selfish” stat is the bane of your game playign experince. Doesn’t matter that a player is dead 80% of the time and the knights gear person dies also cause the zerker wasn’t there contributing his share to the fight. If Magic find is selfish, then zerkers is just as selfish, to max out your self to do high damage and no survivability what so ever just so you see larger numbers.

Bottom line is if the guy in MF never dies during a run or never goes down, and everyone else not in MF gear goes to a down state or dies just once then the MF gear person is pulling their wieght in helping the group.

To quote you from your video,
How is it fair someone is doing less than me and getting better loot.
How is it fair that someone is dead 80% of the fight and still gets loot and possiably better than me.
Stop worryign about what the other person is doing and worry about your self. If your dungeon run is sucessfull with no draw backs then how much or what another person is doing should be none of your concearn. You suggest a pary wide MF buff, from plaers that have it, yet you don’t want to stat it, now who is being selfish. You want the buff go get it, you don’t want the buff cause you obviously feel it is a detriment then don’t use it, again arena net see’s no issue, just becuase you do doesn’t make it an issue.

Yet if that player in full zergers is good he does more dmg then the guy in MF gear. If the player in Knights is abosrbing dmg while his zerker mates dps down the mobs he does more then the guy in MF.
And if the guy in MF gear doesn’t die, it’s usually because his teamates are picking up his slack. And if he’s the last one up it’s going to become quickly aparent how little he’s doing too. I would LOVE to see a full group of MF leaches trying to run something like arah and then wonder why that can’t kill Lupi.
Stop trying to defend the selfishness of people sacrificing performance to increase their rewards, because that’s all you are doing by defending MF in Dungeons.
Oh and the party wide benifits of MF was an attempt at finding some sort of middle ground. If it was up to me it would be turned off in dungeons all together.
Oh and going by the logic that ‘anets see’s it as no issue’ can be applied to this entire video.

So your whole point is I hate MF, cause I can’t realize the truth. Your on a witch hunt, cause youdon’t understand. That is fine, I feel sorry for people like you that defend Zerker gear, but bash MF becuase they can do more damage, then ignore the end result. As of right now MF is going no where, if they remove it no big deal to me becuase I hardly use it, but I am not on a witch hunt to remove it either. I have seen plenty of players hold their own. Although my guess is you run with some pretty sad players if youhaven’t seen it yet, or your mentality is far from corrcet.

End result isn’t what they are doing, it is completing it. I have seen a full MF Exotic gear group clear Araha path 1 – 4 in roughly 4 to 4 1/2 hours. Again looks like your wild witch hunt assumptions are completly and utterly wrong. Have a nice day, your obviously to stubbron to even realize the truth of the matter. reply to it as you wish I am done with your thread.

Kaaboose.3897:

Rhindon.5903:

Okay, I love this video. It’s actually constructive criticism that the devs could use when discussing improvements and changes.

I strongly agree with all but one of your points, #8, so I’d like to offer my own counterpoint. I think that adding boss and event-specific gear is a really bad idea, and it would work against your intended goal.

I don’t want to play through content because I have to, in order to be competitive or have a functional character. I want to play through content because I enjoy it. If AN wants to incentivise events and dungeons, they should tweak or redesign them to make them fun, instead of necessary.

If a friend just bought the game, I can go spend a few days playing with her and not fall behind. I can go exploring, or crafting or jump puzzling or whatever I want and not feel like I’m wasting my time. I mean, look at your example of Leeroy Jenkins. I know it was staged, but we’ve all been there before:

“Do we have to do this, or can we skip it?” “Uh, Joe needs X from this guy.” collective groan “Alright, if we have to, we’ll do it.”

By adding event or boss-specific items, this is exactly what would happen. It’s also one of the reasons WoW stopped being fun and started being a chore. There was content I wanted to play, and content I had to grind.

I’m happy there is no incentive to do anything in GW2 other than my own enjoyment. If we need more incentive to play certain dungeons, bosses or events, I think your #7 and 6 are much better options: just make that content more fun and engaging!

Glad you enjoyed the video Rhindon. The thing With GW2 items is that statisicly (with the exception of ascended items) once you’re max level it’s all about the looks. A plyer wouldn’t be farming a boss for gear they NEED as in WoW, but rather gear they WANT.
I defintly agree that events need to be fun and enguaging but a little extra incentive never hurts either!

Sorry sorry, you complain about MF then you make statements like this. stop your witch hunt and you can’t complain about the preformance drop in MF gear then state that gear is all about the looks at max level minus ascended gear.

Kaimick.5109:

So your whole point is I hate MF, cause I can’t realize the truth. Your on a witch hunt, cause youdon’t understand. That is fine, I feel sorry for people like you that defend Zerker gear, but bash MF becuase they can do more damage, then ignore the end result. As of right now MF is going no where, if they remove it no big deal to me becuase I hardly use it, but I am not on a witch hunt to remove it either. I have seen plenty of players hold their own. Although my guess is you run with some pretty sad players if youhaven’t seen it yet, or your mentality is far from corrcet.

End result isn’t what they are doing, it is completing it. I have seen a full MF Exotic gear group clear Araha path 1 – 4 in roughly 4 to 4 1/2 hours. Again looks like your wild witch hunt assumptions are completly and utterly wrong. Have a nice day, your obviously to stubbron to even realize the truth of the matter. reply to it as you wish I am done with your thread.

My point is still valid. In fact claiming I’m on a witch hunt and telling me I should just run with people using MF to benifit themselves at their teams expense only highlights my problems with the way MF is atm. I don’t want MF removed, I just want the way it works in group play to altered so it’s fairer to the team. There have been some great ideas put foward (Strangley on the YouTube chat AND the Gw2Guru forums, but not here) on how to fix this.
And I’ll clarifiy this once again: “I do not want to run with someone who will penalise himself, and therefore his group, just to increase his own gain.” Spin this arguement any way you want that point is not going to change.
Now I mentioned in the video an inspect feature would be nice. It’s been pointed out on Guru that woul engourage “gear exclusion.” That’s kind of what I want with MF but there’s no way I want to engourage the “You must be running x build in y gear oy you are not running with us” mentality.
What’s that? That’s what I’m doing right now with MF? Yes, I know. But there’s a big diference between someone working to improve their gear then someone who has worked to handicap themselves. As TheLazyOne stated: “… a Sup. Traveler rune cost 1,5 gold, while others cost 20 silver?”
So after listing to solutions proposed in a contructive manner I’ve renouced that idea, An inspect funtion would be a terrible idea.
So what other solutions have been put forawrd? Let’s go over them.

Solution 1: Have MF dispalyed as a buff on characters using it that when you hover over it says something like “Has an X bonus to magic find.”
Pro’s: Simple and easy to impliment.
No changes needed to be made to existing MF gear.
Con’s: People running MF in groups will find it harder to get into groups (If that’s a con to you.)

Solution 2: Have MF a group wide buff, with a cap (say 100%) so it doesn’t get out of hand.
Pro’s: Should not be difficult to impliment.
Encourages groups to consider using MF in groups.
MF will no longer be seen as a ‘selfish’ stat.
Con’s: Would need to be implimented carefully so as to not unbalance the economy.

Solution 3: Have MF as an optional upgrade on all gear that doesn’t sacrifice other stats.
Pro’s: MF will not be disadvantageing the group. No longer a slefish stat.
Con’s: Remvoes the “Work harder for better loot” idea behind MF.
Needs to be implimented carefully so as to not unblance the economy.
Would require a lot of work to impliment,

Solution 4: This ones left field so keep an open mind! Remove MF from items and give us MF SKILLS. These skills could work in various differnt ways with obvious ‘tells’ that they are in use. If a party doesn’t want them in a run they can easily be switched out. Could go as far as MF combo fields that can be combined with regular skills for effects.
Pros: Make MF interesting, requiring use of skills rather then a passive boost.
Aqquring the skills could be a quest in of themselves.
Cons: Extreemly difficult to impliment.
Would have to be implimented carefully so as not to disrupt economy.
Would have to have group benifits to aviod exlusion in runs.

Do the naysayers have any thoughts at any of these proposes to change MF? I’m honestly open to some good discussion, I’m not the ‘burry my head in the sand’ type.
Oh and don’t bother with the “Anet made it this way so that’s the way it should be” angle because that flies in the face of the entire video, not just the MF aspect.

Kaaboose.3897:

Never mentioned mounts because I believe it’s not a good idea. The Guru2 forum post for this, is for the most part, a good level headed discussion on what could be done to improve the game, going over potenial por’s and cons’s of each propsed solution.
Seems almost trollish in of itself to throw a “back in my day” into your post as well.

lol old retired guy playing this game so “back in the day” counts

Krynn Bowlroaster.8429:

Kaaboose.3897:

Never mentioned mounts because I believe it’s not a good idea. The Guru2 forum post for this, is for the most part, a good level headed discussion on what could be done to improve the game, going over potenial por’s and cons’s of each propsed solution.
Seems almost trollish in of itself to throw a “back in my day” into your post as well.

lol old retired guy playing this game so “back in the day” counts

Off topic but when did you start gaming? And sorry if I sounded disrespectful.

I started when we played these games at a table with multi sided dice back in the 70’s. And even played a Star Trek strategy based game on a computer that required punch cards lol. I first played an MMO RPG when WoW came out, then switched to gw1 after a few years. Have tried various console games but don’t really enjoy them, and you didn’t sound disrespectful at all I can take good natured ribbing and the winky face says it wasn’t meant to be anything other than a little ribbing.

And I say that about Guru2 because shortly after game launched I was on a discussion board that was full of WoW, DAoC etc trolls and gave them all a small piece of mind about how the site is called gw2guru and discussion should be about that game not which game is better (used no profanity or name calling), and of all things I got an admin warning for wanting to discuss gw2.

Kaaboose.3897:

So after listing to solutions proposed in a contructive manner I’ve renouced that idea, An inspect funtion would be a terrible idea.
So what other solutions have been put forawrd? Let’s go over them.

Solution 1:
I’m personally not a huge fan of displaying certain stats, especially for the purpose of party finding. It as a quite similar effect to the inspect function with the added note saying “watch out for this stat”, or otherwise why would it be there? This so far can be viewed as either a good thing or a bad thing, for my point, it doesnt matter. The problem is that it encourages people to look for things they perceive bad. This again can be a good thing when its done with deep understanding and based on facts and informations, on the other hand i think basically anyone with online experience knows that people who just think without ideas to back them up have the power to ruin plans like this.

Solution 2.
This again will most likely create an interesting situation. If a party, a whole party can have a united MF boost, then it might come to the point of “we need that 100% MF or we are not doing an optimal course”. It might not be as much os a complication as it is in other games since in GW2 we rarely do the instances for the random loot itself, but it definitely might have long running side effects.

Solution 3.
I find this one to be the most interesting, and promising out of the 4 listed. Something similar to the ascended gear’s AR+stat system with lower resource need could turn MF into a kind of “endgame” stat where your best armor would definitely have it, and it might help you with achieving contents added later or farm for resources for legendaries. So in my opinion it wouldn’t "Remove the “Work harder for better loot” idea behind MF." but change it into a whole different concept. So in the end the drawback comes to AN where they have to make serious considerations before even begining to implement this, and then work a lot to actually do it.

Solution 4.
Since my main character is a Ranger, i usually do have 1 skill slot that for most bosses i could switch up for an MF skill, but as far as i know, its hardly the case for most classes. Seems to me that most classes have quite a tight fit with the skill slots, and most of the time are already sacrificing something that could help them or the team (well, rangers also have good stuff for their team, just less vital). So in the end the cons add up here to the most.
With added difficulty to manage your character, to manage the party, and requiring a nearly whole system balance overhaul on the side of AN, i dont see this one even plausible for consideration.

As a side note, without the intention of derailing the topic, i’d suggest everyone to be a bit more specific when you mention “unbalancing the economy”, because this term is quite vague in this form.
For example, only within a week the the dragon chest changes decreased the price of rare items from 32-37 silver to 18-20 silver, and as a result, the price of Ecto from 35-40 silver to roughly 25 silver. Did this unbalance the economy? No, it just created a new balance point.
Unbalancing only occures when some result of a change cannot be kept up in the long run. And considering that it can have disastrous results in MMORPGs, please be a bit more specific if you have something particular in mind,, or just be careful with the term. Thank you.

TheLazyOne.8509:

Kaaboose.3897:

TheLazyOne.8509:

I don’t see what the problem is, to be honest. MF amor gives power and precision, so the dps won’t be much lower.

Oh dear, I’m going to do a video on just how BAD Mf gear is. Did you know the total stats on an 80 EXOTIC MF piece that effect combat are less then a WHITE lvl 80 item? And that a BLUE lvl 80 item will give more power then an exotic MF piece if it’s the major stat?

People wonder why MF is loathed so much. If you were to say “It’s skill that counts in this game, That’s why I’m in all Whites/Blues” do you think any party would take you along?

I’ve compared some armor pieces to check:
Draconic MF armor vs Cultural rampager armor vs plain white lvl80 armor:
def 363 power, prec, mf: 72, 72, 3%
def 324 power prec, cond: 64, 89, 64
def 219 power ,prec, crit: 61, 43, 3%
60% 88% 59% 100%
89%
Certainly, overall the combat efficiency will drop, that’s part of the MF trade-off, but I don’t see any huge number differences you are alluding to.
We’re running dungeons with friends semi-regularly and I’ve yet to see MF causing us any performance dips.
And so, I have to ask. If I decide to wear MF on MY character, what’s it to you exactly?
We don’t kick anyone out of our instance party, regardless of skill level, experience, even if he’s a GS warrior glass cannon who gets one-shot by any boss aoe.

Ah crap I forgot to take base armour into account! Well that throws my calculations way off base!
The extoic MF piece wins hands down vs White. 144 more armour then the white, I’m embarrased I missed that! let’s see by how much. First we need to work out how much armour is worth vs regular stat points.
Calcuating the differnce in armour between Exotic MF and White puts the MF item 60% ahead of the white. Ironiclly thats the same differnce between the minor stas on each item. So I can safely say that the 144 differnce in armour between a white and exotic gear would be roughly 43 Stat points.
so the exotic is now 43+72+72+0(mf) = 187 stat points
the white is now 0(armour)+61+43+43 = 147 stat points.
and cultural is now 35+69+84+69 = 257 stat points.
Clearly the Exotic MF armour is statiscly superior to the White. My appologies on that! The White set works out 21% weaker then the MF set.
And the Exotic MF set works out 27% weaker then the Cultural set.

For arguemnts sake lets try this again without taking armour into account.
Just for carification a chest piece’s Major stat is 101 on exotic armour. That’s how much has been given up to aquire the MF boost. It still gets the two minor stats at 72 a piece. So a total of 144 stat points.
The total stat points on the cultural is 217, while the whites is 147. Both higher then the Exotic MF piece, However that is without taking the armour into account.

Let’s compare a FULL set of Exotic Gear to a full Exotic MF gear set to safely take armour out of the equation (Since it’s not a stat that can be modified.)
MF SET total stats: 1396. (MF, 698, 698)
Normal total stats: 2399. (1003, 698, 698)
Now I realize this is all just numbers and such but that’s makes the MF set 42% weaker than a non MF set.

Is it really okay to be purposly handicapping yourself that much for personal gain? Would it have to be more or less for it to be okay/not okay? I’ll say it again “Using MF handicaps you for the chance at better loot.” Running solo or with other players running MF is just fine since everyone is handicaping themselves for better loot. But when running with others not running MF everyone is taking part of that handicap and only the player causing it stands to gain from it.

Also it’s a bit unfair to be comparing zerkers to MF gear with these examples:

even if he’s a GS warrior glass cannon who gets one-shot by any boss aoe.

Explorer Chest: DEF 363, POWER: 72, PRECISION: 72 MF: 3%
Traveler’s Chest: DEF 363, POWER: 72, CONDITION DMG: 72 MF: 3%
Wayfarer’s Chest: DEF 363, VITALITY: 72 TOUGHNESS: 72 MF: 3%
Beserker’s Chest: DEF 363, POWER: 101, PRECISION: 72 CRIT DMG: 5%

They all (with the exception of Wayfarer’s) Have the same amount of defensive stats: 0
So unless the guy with the MF set is running Wayfarer’s he’s going to get one shot by boss AOE just as much as the gur running Beserkers.
And if the MF guy WAS running Wayfarer’s he’d be running 0 dmg outside what he got from his traits.

So in conclusion, I was wrong, Someone running an exotic MF set is going to be better all round then somone running whites. However my view that handicaping the team for your own gain via MF gear is wrong still stands.

Zanador.5810:

Kaaboose.3897:

So after listing to solutions proposed in a contructive manner I’ve renouced that idea, An inspect funtion would be a terrible idea.
So what other solutions have been put forawrd? Let’s go over them.

Solution 1:
I’m personally not a huge fan of displaying certain stats, especially for the purpose of party finding. It as a quite similar effect to the inspect function with the added note saying “watch out for this stat”, or otherwise why would it be there? This so far can be viewed as either a good thing or a bad thing, for my point, it doesnt matter. The problem is that it encourages people to look for things they perceive bad. This again can be a good thing when its done with deep understanding and based on facts and informations, on the other hand i think basically anyone with online experience knows that people who just think without ideas to back them up have the power to ruin plans like this.

Solution 2.
This again will most likely create an interesting situation. If a party, a whole party can have a united MF boost, then it might come to the point of “we need that 100% MF or we are not doing an optimal course”. It might not be as much os a complication as it is in other games since in GW2 we rarely do the instances for the random loot itself, but it definitely might have long running side effects.

Solution 3.
I find this one to be the most interesting, and promising out of the 4 listed. Something similar to the ascended gear’s AR+stat system with lower resource need could turn MF into a kind of “endgame” stat where your best armor would definitely have it, and it might help you with achieving contents added later or farm for resources for legendaries. So in my opinion it wouldn’t "Remove the “Work harder for better loot” idea behind MF." but change it into a whole different concept. So in the end the drawback comes to AN where they have to make serious considerations before even begining to implement this, and then work a lot to actually do it.

Solution 4.
Since my main character is a Ranger, i usually do have 1 skill slot that for most bosses i could switch up for an MF skill, but as far as i know, its hardly the case for most classes. Seems to me that most classes have quite a tight fit with the skill slots, and most of the time are already sacrificing something that could help them or the team (well, rangers also have good stuff for their team, just less vital). So in the end the cons add up here to the most.
With added difficulty to manage your character, to manage the party, and requiring a nearly whole system balance overhaul on the side of AN, i dont see this one even plausible for consideration.

As a side note, without the intention of derailing the topic, i’d suggest everyone to be a bit more specific when you mention “unbalancing the economy”, because this term is quite vague in this form.
For example, only within a week the the dragon chest changes decreased the price of rare items from 32-37 silver to 18-20 silver, and as a result, the price of Ecto from 35-40 silver to roughly 25 silver. Did this unbalance the economy? No, it just created a new balance point.
Unbalancing only occures when some result of a change cannot be kept up in the long run. And considering that it can have disastrous results in MMORPGs, please be a bit more specific if you have something particular in mind,, or just be careful with the term. Thank you.

I used a vague term because to be perfectly honest I’m terrible at MMO economies. All I know is that fiddling with loot systems can cause long standing changes over time.
Thanks for your imput on each proposed solution.
I’m still going to say Solution 2 is my favorite (I want to say 4 but it’s just not feasible to put that many rescources into an entirely new system when other solutions are easier, and potentially better.) as it keeps the whole ‘MF handicaps you for the increased rewards’ mentaility there while putting it in a more posative light.
Solution 3 would be my next choice, followed by 1.

MeveM.7913:

Kaaboose.3897:

Kaimick.5109:

Wall Of Text

Kaimick, the problem with MF is that is ONLY benifits the player running it. You can say how player skill is more important than gear, and I certinly agree with you on this, but a skiled player running normal gear IS (statisiticly) going to benifit his team more then a skilled player in regular gear.
And comparing MF to non-zerker gear is not a good comaparison. A player running Apocracerys might be doing less dmg, but they’ll be offering more healing.
Same could be said for a player running soildeirs. Less dmg, but capable of taking more hits. (Which if he died, might be hits directed at you)
However a player running MF is offering nothing else to his group in place of the stats lost.
I stand my stance that players running MF are being selfish by putting their needs above the group.

Yes someone with magic find offers less of statistical help, but so does certain classes, lets remove classes like Rangers from being able to enter dungeons because as we can already see, Warriors do everything better statistically.

Statistically certain builds are worse than other builds and offer less to the group in dungeons, we should also disallow them for being used in group play.
Statistically there are far worse problems then MF gear in dungeons.

But isn’t removing/balancing MF a good start? You cannot compare unbalance between classes to a completely useless stat which only affect the player.

The issue needs a fix and i think balancing MF is a really good start, considering balancing professions acquires a lot more… well… everything.

Also, you made my ranger cry, hope you are happy Altho i agree with you…

Torguish.4786:

MeveM.7913:

Kaaboose.3897:

Kaimick.5109:

Wall Of Text

Kaimick, the problem with MF is that is ONLY benifits the player running it. You can say how player skill is more important than gear, and I certinly agree with you on this, but a skiled player running normal gear IS (statisiticly) going to benifit his team more then a skilled player in regular gear.
And comparing MF to non-zerker gear is not a good comaparison. A player running Apocracerys might be doing less dmg, but they’ll be offering more healing.
Same could be said for a player running soildeirs. Less dmg, but capable of taking more hits. (Which if he died, might be hits directed at you)
However a player running MF is offering nothing else to his group in place of the stats lost.
I stand my stance that players running MF are being selfish by putting their needs above the group.

Yes someone with magic find offers less of statistical help, but so does certain classes, lets remove classes like Rangers from being able to enter dungeons because as we can already see, Warriors do everything better statistically.

Statistically certain builds are worse than other builds and offer less to the group in dungeons, we should also disallow them for being used in group play.
Statistically there are far worse problems then MF gear in dungeons.

But isn’t removing/balancing MF a good start? You cannot compare unbalance between classes to a completely useless stat which only affect the player.

The issue needs a fix and i think balancing MF is a really good start, considering balancing professions acquires a lot more… well… everything.

Also, you made my ranger cry, hope you are happy Altho i agree with you…

If it makes you feel any better Torguish my Ranger PvE build is coming along nicely (God, I though the elementalists had some buggy traits!) and I’m doing my best to get my ranger to 80 so I can trial it out.

I’m astounded that the OP’s list does not contain ANY of the game’s biggest issues at this point. This is just a personal wish list, not a top 10 of things that needs improving.

Here are the actual top 10 things that need to be improved:

• 1. An option to disable right click targeting.
• 2. A fix for mouse targeting, so it properly selects what you click on.
• 3. A fix for the camera so it doesn’t bounce around any more.
• 4. A FOV slider for the camera, so we can see where we are going and don’t get sick.
• 5. A fix to the chat window, so we don’t open up every panel on our screen by accident.
• 6. An overhaul of the chat window so we can more easily select proper chat channels.
• 7. A fix to dodging, so it doesn’t ignore dodge inputs, or dodge in the wrong direction.
• 8. A fix to joining parties, so you can easily merge parties, and join any member of a team by simply right clicking their name.
• 9. A fix to the auctionhouse, so we don’t need to restart GW2 every time we can’t access the darn thing. Also, make the auctionhouse remember the page we last visited.
• 10. Removal of the slowdown while in combat. It makes jumping puzzles a living hell.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I’m astounded that the OP’s list does not contain ANY of the game’s biggest issues at this point. This is just a personal wish list, not a top 10 of things that needs improving.

Here are the actual top 10 things that need to be improved:

• 1. An option to disable right click targeting.
• 2. A fix for mouse targeting, so it properly selects what you click on.
• 3. A fix for the camera so it doesn’t bounce around any more.
• 4. A FOV slider for the camera, so we can see where we are going and don’t get sick.
• 5. A fix to the chat window, so we don’t open up every panel on our screen by accident.
• 6. An overhaul of the chat window so we can more easily select proper chat channels.
• 7. A fix to dodging, so it doesn’t ignore dodge inputs, or dodge in the wrong direction.
• 8. A fix to joining parties, so you can easily merge parties, and join any member of a team by simply right clicking their name.
• 9. A fix to the auctionhouse, so we don’t need to restart GW2 every time we can’t access the darn thing. Also, make the auctionhouse remember the page we last visited.
• 10. Removal of the slowdown while in combat. It makes jumping puzzles a living hell.

Pretty much all those things fall into the categories Kaboose already mentioned in the video. Wether it being User Friendliness or UI polishing. :P

Torguish.4786:

Pretty much all those things fall into the categories Kaboose already mentioned in the video. Wether it being User Friendliness or UI polishing. :P

In that case, never mind then.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Torguish.4786:

Pretty much all those things fall into the categories Kaboose already mentioned in the video. Wether it being User Friendliness or UI polishing. :P

In that case, never mind then.

I’ll forgive you because right click targeting was your No.1
I cannot belive that hasn’t been fixed. Skip to point 2 of the video (It’s okay not to watch the whole thing) as point 2 and 1 cover your complaints.

Wow… Big thread that seems largely about MF. I think I’m on this side of MF being a little messed up right now.