Guild Wars 2

I know that in general elite skills are better and so fun.
But I am playing a Necromancer in sPvP and none of the elite skills fit my build so barely use my elite skill.

I think this would be really nice in sPvP if not else where in the game.

This would unbalance things.

K Cross.3458:

This would unbalance things.

oh really why don’t you explain how it unbalances things

It will change the balance. For the most part people will use elites being they are the most powerful skills.

I agree.
Elites are supposed to be outright better, either lower recharge, more powerful, combining the effects of multiple utility skills, or a combination of the former.

If some particular build rather use a non-elite utility skill instead, I don’t see why not.

Personally, I wish they’d just made slots 6-10 completely interchangeable with all your non-weapon skills (similar to how Diablo 3 is if you change it in the options menu), but at this point, I’m not sure they’d be willing to redesign encounters that may be unbalanced by it. As far as I’m concerned, allowing players to slot 6-10 with all their heals and a couple support utilities would’ve gone a long way to smooth out the twitch learning curve that group activities have because of all the players used to trinity game design.

Bonzoso.7014:

Personally, I wish they’d just made slots 6-10 completely interchangeable with all your non-weapon skills (similar to how Diablo 3 is if you change it in the options menu), but at this point, I’m not sure they’d be willing to redesign encounters that may be unbalanced by it. As far as I’m concerned, allowing players to slot 6-10 with all their heals and a couple support utilities would’ve gone a long way to smooth out the twitch learning curve that group activities have because of all the players used to trinity game design.

No. This won’t simply smooth out the learning curve, it will outright bring Holy Trinity back.
“DPSers” would bring offensive utility instead of Healing.
“Healers” would bring more healing.

Just no.

To the OP, yes, it would be a nice option, but only replace Elite with Utility, not Healing.

Nurvus.2891:

Bonzoso.7014:

Personally, I wish they’d just made slots 6-10 completely interchangeable with all your non-weapon skills (similar to how Diablo 3 is if you change it in the options menu), but at this point, I’m not sure they’d be willing to redesign encounters that may be unbalanced by it. As far as I’m concerned, allowing players to slot 6-10 with all their heals and a couple support utilities would’ve gone a long way to smooth out the twitch learning curve that group activities have because of all the players used to trinity game design.

No. This won’t simply smooth out the learning curve, it will outright bring Holy Trinity back.
“DPSers” would bring offensive utility instead of Healing.
“Healers” would bring more healing.

Just no.

To the OP, yes, it would be a nice option, but only replace Elite with Utility, not Healing.

Well, I think that’s an exaggeration, but we’ll just have to disagree. Sure, you’d see some “trinity light”, but the game pretty much has a trinity light already, and not even a player with all 3 heal skills slotted would be able to keep up someone who wasn’t dodging and kiting when aggro’d.

It has been my experience that many of the Elite skills are not that great anyway. Yes, they are powerful, but they have such long cooldown times that they often have very limited and situational usefulness. I think that having the option of using a fourth Utility Skill in that skill slot, instead of an Elite skill, would be a nice option to have, and I think you would find more than a few players choosing that option. I also think that it should not be restricted to sPvP only, but should be allowed in PvE as well.

No. Elites are *supposed* to give you a very good bonus and have a very long cooldown. Allowing you to bring four utility skills, instead of an elite, would allow for exploitation.

Example: Greatsword Ranger, with Muddy Terrain, Quickening Zephyr, Signet of Renewal, and Lightning Reflexes instead of Rampage as One. Now, instead of having stability, he has an instant evade, vigor, and stun break, weapon swap gets him fury and might. Suddenly, he’s got a better stack of buffs than his elite would give him, and can do this burst every 36 seconds instead of every 120.

And that is why this is a bad idea.

Nels the Cornwhisperer.8025:

No. Elites are supposed to give you a very good bonus and have a very long cooldown. Allowing you to bring four utility skills, instead of an elite, would allow for exploitation.

Example: Greatsword Ranger, with Muddy Terrain, Quickening Zephyr, Signet of Renewal, and Lightning Reflexes instead of Rampage as One. Now, instead of having stability, he has an instant evade, vigor, and stun break, weapon swap gets him fury and might. Suddenly, he’s got a better stack of buffs than his elite would give him, and can do this burst every 36 seconds instead of every 120.

And that is why this is a bad idea.

Better? It is not better you don’t get stability which is like the best boon. You don’t fury for 20 seconds and the fact the Lightning Reflexes jumps you backwards. So the escape is nice if that’s what you want but greatsword build is about charging. So why is this better. Nice looking at the facts.

Nels didn’t account for the fact you can swap weapon with the Elite as well.
It’s all about distorting or hiding the facts in order to win the internet.

The OP is kinda solving the wrong problem here. If a utility is more appealing than the Elite, then the problem is the Elite skill. So allowing a utility to replace an Elite doesn’t solve this “weak Elite skill” problem – it only sweeps it under the rug.

So instead, in my opinion, either Anet re-balance the Elite skill or create new ones that is slightly stronger that the utility of your choice. They created an Elite like this in GW1 (a stronger version of the weaker one) so therefore they can make it again.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The OP is kinda solving the wrong problem here. If a utility is more appealing than the Elite, then the problem is the Elite skill. So allowing a utility to replace an Elite doesn’t solve this “weak Elite skill” problem – it only sweeps it under the rug.

So instead, in my opinion, either Anet re-balance the Elite skill or create new ones that is slightly stronger that the utility of your choice. They created an Elite like this in GW1 (a stronger version of the weaker one) so therefore they can make it again.

No the Nerco skills are not weak is just the fact that most don’t allow you use your utility skills when using them. And the other one is fine. I just like a different skill.

The skills you just like don’t make for a good reason to upset game balance. I would *love* to equip utilities over some of my weapon slots, but that wouldn’t be a good idea either.

The idea behind Elites, going off of what ArenaNet said in blog posts and the old gw2 webpage, elites were always designed to be slow-recharge game-changers. If you ever played D&D, they could be compared to daily powers (utilities would be encounter powers). These are (generally last-ditch) efforts that can turn a loss to a win.

Timing an elite drop is critical, especially in PvP. While some utilities do exist with recharge rates that excel those of some elites, they are few and far between and almost always signets. Thus, utilities can generally be dropped with more leniency than elites, especially when combined with traits that reduce their recharge times.

This can be converted to the quantity of skill required to use a bar.
Utilities have lower-skill requirements, although some can require more player skill.
Elites have higher player skill requirements.

Therefore, 4 utilities would promote lower-skilled players while possibly hindering higher skilled players, and would certainly detract from the idea of an elite skill.

@Doombringer well spoken although I don’t think you are correct.

Options will never hinder a higher skill player because they learn to use the options to there advantage. In theory this promote lower skill players I don’t see that as a bad thing.

GW2 is not D&D and if the idea is wrong it should be changed. GW2 is an action game and the elite’s don’t work on nearly the same scale as D&D.

I also think you are wrong the elite skills are not based on D&D but based on the rise off the rise on DotA like games and yes those elite skills are about timing. In general in DotA like games the elite is core of your skill set enhancing your ability to use you other skills effectively.

In GW2 you don’t have a skill set you choose your skill set and there is the problem. So what did they do they made the skill do something completely of the beaten track. Now this could be good or not be good. Like I said for me it doesn’t fit what I like to achieve in my build.

But I have a spirit ranger as well and the elite is amazing especially in WvW. I think it is not about timing in this game but about what you like to achieve and combat fits that attitude.

I too play a Necro ~ and I also agree… other than the Flesh Golem in PvE.. the elites for a Necro are virtually pointless in PvP/WvW/Dungeons.

+1 to the idea of other utility skills in place of elite.

As of right now, the game’s skill setup is balanced around having five weapon skills, one healing skill, three utility skills, and one elite skill. You allow players to put an extra utility skill into the elite slot, without adjusting the balance — which would be time consuming and take away from the things we need right now — and things will get messy. Maybe not immediately, but an imbalance would occur and likely not on a small scale, either.

I vote to leave it as it is and let the developers/balance testers work out how to make elite skills more interesting and useful. Player suggestions and input on that would be far more beneficial to the team behind this.

I agree with the ability to put a utility in the elite spot, or make the elite skills more elite?.?. I personally find the Guardian elite skills boring I love the class just not so big on there elites.