Guild Wars 2

I’ve been playing in WvW for quite a while now and i noticed how crazy mesmer’s confusion hits elementalist for. When i tornado and just get a stack of confusion on me, i would get hit multiple time(around 5-8x) by the feedback damage in a single second. Personally I think that the confusion damage is overly powerful when it meets the tornado. Just one stack of confusion on the ele with a duration of 5s is able to reduce the elementalist down to like 1/5 without even hitting the elementalist

You may personally want to try this out to get a full sense of what i mean.
I was wondering would the tornado’s passive skill cast be properly adjusted eventually.

Confusion is single most OPed condition of them all especially if timed right. It even punishes you when you attempt to heal. Seriously Confusion > Agony. It’s not just your tornado. I play a guardian with GS and while im in the middle of whirling wrath there is always somebody to cast confusion on me and I almost kill myself. All the toughness and armor is rendered useless. So yeah something must be done to confusion, the way it is, is just too OP. Some mobs give you 4-5 out of the blue for ~10 seconds, and in mass pvp mesmers easily stack you good for 6-7 seconds. That’s 10 seconds in which I’m completely useless or usually getting myself killed

When I saw the title, I thought I’d be reading about an idea of having Tornado grant confusion.

I don’t know which of the Ele elites is the community favorite, so I thought it would have been a cool idea.

/disappointment

Whut Ele’s have elites? Kitten me, never noticed, that’s how bad 99% of them are, even without confusion stacks Tornado is a suicide button. Remove them already and let us use another utility plox.

I’d rather have an elemental by my side than a little better Endure Pain

Mesmer’s just got 2 nerds the last freaking thing we need is for artards to be calling for others. Confusion is the ONLY consistent condition that mesmers really have going for them. Here’s a thought have some dmg mitigation/condition removal ready… Kudo’s to the mesmers for PROPERLY TIMING their shatter to stomp you into the ground…

elementalist elites in general need to be redone…. i only use glyph of elementals because although tornado is good it cant be used the least of which is confusion. but it doesnt add anything to survivability . only people that dont know how weak tornado is run from it.

Well jportell u might wanna read my post again. I quoted on the last part on the issue of fixing the passive spell cast on ele’s tornado. I never once said nerf confusion. That is why this topic was “when confusion meets tornado” not confusion is OP. Please just read before u jump to stupid and dumb conclusions.

By saying that you think confusion is overly powerful that is in fact calling for it to be brought down in duration or stacking… Which is passively asking for it to be nerfed… But the other posts after you were also calling for it by saying it was OP alot.

jportell.2197:

By saying that you think confusion is overly powerful

Junjie.3074:

Personally I think that the confusion damage is overly powerful when it meets the tornado.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

jportell.2197:

By saying that you think confusion is overly powerful

Junjie.3074:

Personally I think that the confusion damage is overly powerful when it meets the tornado.

Which is saying the tornado is overly powerful because confusion just redirects damage that you would do to the target back onto you when you use the skill… its a defense mechanism as well as good for destroying overpowered zealots.

My personal favorite death to confusion: Mad King Rune birds in a stack of enemies.

5+ stacks of confusion and its game over in less than a second. Even better is that the MK birds trigger after an elite cast, so you can’t cancel them once they’ve started.

jportell.2197:

Which is saying the tornado is overly powerful because confusion just redirects damage that you would do to the target back onto you when you use the skill… its a defense mechanism as well as good for destroying overpowered zealots.

No.

He is saying confusion is bugged when it interacts with some skills, resulting in a large amount of incoming damage in a short period of time that most players would not expect from a condition.

Confusion is a powerful enough condition that it does not need to rely on buggy behavior. It should be fixed, and if that makes Mesmers too weak as a result, they should be propped-up in other ways. Class balance should not rely on buggy skills.

ATMAvatar.5749:

jportell.2197:

Which is saying the tornado is overly powerful because confusion just redirects damage that you would do to the target back onto you when you use the skill… its a defense mechanism as well as good for destroying overpowered zealots.

No.

He is saying confusion is bugged when it interacts with some skills, resulting in a large amount of incoming damage in a short period of time that most players would not expect from a condition.

Confusion is a powerful enough condition that it does not need to rely on buggy behavior. It should be fixed, and if that makes Mesmers too weak as a result, they should be propped-up in other ways. Class balance should not rely on buggy skills.

Confusion is a condition that deals damage each time a foe uses a skill. Confusion stacks in intensity. Characters suffering from confusion can be identified by twirling, purple tinted spiral over their heads. Additionally, the same effect will appear alongside damage dealt by confusion when using a skill.

That is the description from the Wiki which gets its info from the game designers… It is not bugged… Follow me on this progression if it is a confusion/shatter heavy mesmer they can easily throw down several stacks of confusion… And if I am not mistaken tornado is an elite skill that does immense amounts of damage… SO it would suffice to say that the MORE stacks of confusion an ele has on it when they activate tornado the MORE DAMAGE they would take from using the skill… Sounds like the game mechanic is working properly to me.

Did they fix the bug with confusion and elementalist (and probably other classes) ranged 1 skill on some weapons? If you used the 1 skill while not facing correctly the target, you’d get hit by confusion damage and the skill doesn’t fire at all. It allows you to receive confusion damage as fast as you can spam 1 and it’s probably the fastest way to suicide in the game by far.

Normal confusion damage should be exactly 1 packet of damage for 1 skill usage. So casting Tornado is one skill so it should apply the confusion damage only once. Or 10 times for 10 stacks obviously. But not 10 times each second while in Tornado form.

Something IS broken with confusion here.

jportell.2197:

ATMAvatar.5749:

jportell.2197:

Which is saying the tornado is overly powerful because confusion just redirects damage that you would do to the target back onto you when you use the skill… its a defense mechanism as well as good for destroying overpowered zealots.

No.

He is saying confusion is bugged when it interacts with some skills, resulting in a large amount of incoming damage in a short period of time that most players would not expect from a condition.

Confusion is a powerful enough condition that it does not need to rely on buggy behavior. It should be fixed, and if that makes Mesmers too weak as a result, they should be propped-up in other ways. Class balance should not rely on buggy skills.

Confusion is a condition that deals damage each time a foe uses a skill. Confusion stacks in intensity. Characters suffering from confusion can be identified by twirling, purple tinted spiral over their heads. Additionally, the same effect will appear alongside damage dealt by confusion when using a skill.

That is the description from the Wiki which gets its info from the game designers… It is not bugged… Follow me on this progression if it is a confusion/shatter heavy mesmer they can easily throw down several stacks of confusion… And if I am not mistaken tornado is an elite skill that does immense amounts of damage… SO it would suffice to say that the MORE stacks of confusion an ele has on it when they activate tornado the MORE DAMAGE they would take from using the skill… Sounds like the game mechanic is working properly to me.

I think the issue is, basically, condition’s intent is to notify you that you’re confused, and allow you to counter-play it by not using skills while under its effects. The problem isn’t with confusion, but rather the mechanics of a few abilities that make them automatically cast pulses of “skill activations” at a rapid rate, which prevents the user from counter-playing the confusion effectively.

For instance, in my MK birds example, each bird attack counts for the purposes of confusion as a “skill activation” which results in 20+ skill activations firing at once and again every second or so for 7-8 seconds. The problem with this isn’t that confusion punishes me for casting, but rather than I can not cancel these “casts”

A smart player will simply wait for the birds to start, then cast confusion, and I can’t stop the “skill activations”

Similarly, skills like tornado or plague have this problem to a lesser degree. The user can’t counter-play the confusion by not using skills, as the form uses a damage pulse that counts as a “skill activation” all by itself.

This is inconsistant, as not all channeled attacks count as multiple activations. Daggerstorm, for instance only counts as one cast, at the beginning of the skill, but not a cast for each dagger it fires. Similarly all pulsing ground targeted AoE skills count as a skill activation when cast, but not each time they deal damage.

Its a matter of consistency. Confusion needs to apply either per skill activation by the player, or per damage pulse and do so consistantly in all cases. Currently it applies mostly to the former and not to the latter, but its current effects are inconsistant.

It isn’t confusion that needs changed, but rather the skills that proc a “skill activation” without the user activating a skill. Fix those few outliers and the problem is solved without removing confusion from its intended role as a control mechanism for PvP and a source of solid damage for PvE.

jportell.2197:

confusion just redirects damage that you would do to the target back onto you when you use the skill…

No, it doesn’t return anything.

It deals a fixed amount of damage.

Confusion deals the same damage per skill activation whether the activation deals 10.000 or 1000.

It simply penalizes several skills that internally count as multiple activations.

A Warrior activating Kill Shot suffers X damage from Confusion.
An Elementalist activating Tornado suffers dozens of times X damage.

It’s a stupid behavior.

The issue doesn’t seem to be confusion itself, it’s confusion used on abilities that are ALREADY FIRING.

Confusion should only apply damage if you consciously press a button on your bar to use an ability. If you’re channeling something and hit with confusion, it should not apply damage until you, the player, input another keystroke on the action bar.

People who can’t be bothered to look at their conditions should not be spared the wrath of confusion, but people who are already channeling abilities they can’t cancel should not be punished either for something beyond their control.

Confusion, if anything, is too cumbersome. It should behave more like an offensive version of aegis.. you put it on someone and it lasts a long time, stacking in duration instead of intensity, until the next ability is used, and hits for significant damage (I keep thinking C&D level damage), but only once.

There’s no need for that plasmacutter.
All Anet has to do is properly flag skills such that each skill counts as 1 activation.

Chains are considered separate skills, ofcourse, so if you auto-attack, you get hit by Confusion once per chain.

But just because your attack deals 1.000 damage 10 times, instead of 10.000 in one go, you shouldn’t be penalized 10x harder.

Thank you very much guys on understanding the issue I’ve meant. Yes i do believe the passive skill cast of tornado has some issue with it when confusion is placed onto the user. The damage the elementalist takes for its passive cast is just too huge for its users. I was wondering if there are any way to fix the “bug” of the passive cast for tornado.

Some might argue that you can just cancel tornado when you get confusion. But tornado is supposed to be an elite which have a 3 min cooldown. Its not just some 30s cooldown skill. For example if you’ve just casted tornado and got stacks of confusion, there will never be a situation where tornado is useful with an enemy meser around.
I was wondering if anet could fix this tornado issue for it to become something similar to dagger storm instead of a multicasting spell where it takes in unnecessary amounts of damage.

A 3 minute elite rendered useless/unusable/countered by a stack of confusion? Yeah, ok. Seems legit to me…. If that stays then how about Moa being cleansed by condition removers?

Biomanz.9302:

A 3 minute elite rendered useless/unusable/countered by a stack of confusion? Yeah, ok. Seems legit to me…. If that stays then how about Moa being cleansed by condition removers?

Moa isn’t a condition, it’s a way of life.

Just kidding but in all seriousness… The tooltip for confusion states that the confused shall take damage on any skill or action, the damage should reflect as thus. Movement is not considered a trigger but swinging your weapon is , therefore your body in tornado form is a weapon and you should be taking damage while spinning multiple times in one second. Makes sense… is it fair, not to you, is it working as intended? Yes it is.

Elspeth Tiriel.9243:

Biomanz.9302:

A 3 minute elite rendered useless/unusable/countered by a stack of confusion? Yeah, ok. Seems legit to me…. If that stays then how about Moa being cleansed by condition removers?

Moa isn’t a condition, it’s a way of life.

Just kidding but in all seriousness… The tooltip for confusion states that the confused shall take damage on any skill or action, the damage should reflect as thus. Movement is not considered a trigger but swinging your weapon is , therefore your body in tornado form is a weapon and you should be taking damage while spinning multiple times in one second. Makes sense… is it fair, not to you, is it working as intended? Yes it is.

Yep in this way I do agree it is working as intended. But if you were to look it in this way, when you tornado, its only once every few second you knock down people using this ulti. Its not knocking them down multiple times each second. Also you are not dealing multiple damage each second on ur tornado passive, you only do the damage/knockdown once every few second. But you receive multiple damage from confusion per second. Thus i do believe the tornado kill needs to get fixed somehow.

I’ve been using tornado in WvW a lot, and i’ve never been killed once by confusion, so I think you are doing it wrong.

This is how you should use tornado:

- you see a large group of enemies hitting a door or a wall
– you sneak behind them
– you use Meteor Shower on the back of their group
– you use tornado in the same area that you used Meteor shower and you keep hitting “3” to knock everyone back
– when your HP reach 50%, you drop tornado form, immediatly after you use mist form, and if needed immediatly after, use Lightning Flash to reach the gate of the building you are trying to protect.
– if you get downed because it went wrong, immediatly use vapor form to reach the door as well, and wait for your team mates to ressurect you.

The key to use tornado is not beeing spotted before you run into your enemies, else they can cc you and it’s over.

PS: tornado is also great to chase runners. Use ride the lightening, lightening flash to get closer to a runner, use a CC to root him, then use tornado and spam knockback. GG.

Biomanz.9302:

A 3 minute elite rendered useless/unusable/countered by a stack of confusion? Yeah, ok. Seems legit to me…. If that stays then how about Moa being cleansed by condition removers?

Id be fine with that if they could let you keep a condition removal in slot skills when you are moa morphed… But I and most other mesmers RARELY use it because time warp and mass invis just have way better group utility

Neutro.3079:

I’ve been using tornado in WvW a lot, and i’ve never been killed once by confusion, so I think you are doing it wrong.

This is how you should use tornado:

- you see a large group of enemies hitting a door or a wall
– you sneak behind them
– you use Meteor Shower on the back of their group
– you use tornado in the same area that you used Meteor shower and you keep hitting “3” to knock everyone back
– when your HP reach 50%, you drop tornado form, immediatly after you use mist form, and if needed immediatly after, use Lightning Flash to reach the gate of the building you are trying to protect.
– if you get downed because it went wrong, immediatly use vapor form to reach the door as well, and wait for your team mates to ressurect you.

The key to use tornado is not beeing spotted before you run into your enemies, else they can cc you and it’s over.

PS: tornado is also great to chase runners. Use ride the lightening, lightening flash to get closer to a runner, use a CC to root him, then use tornado and spam knockback. GG.

^Thank you… I was having a hard time figuring out why a D/D els was whining about some confusion lol… U sir are doing it right.