Guild Wars 2

Mirta.5029:

Manoa.5897:

Hamidon Raids in City of Heroes required a significant amount of players and a similar level of coordination. When they revamped Hami Raids to be more difficult and engaging, it took some time for the players to puzzle out how to take him down. The players pulled together, worked together, kept at it, learned the new mechanics and nuances. And once they figured it out, they were able to take Hami down consistently and reliably.

The GW2 playerbase still needs a chance to puzzle Teq 2.0 out. Don’t let less than a day of playing dictate whether or not the new Teq is impossible.

What you’re talking about is a raid. Were people enter with an organized group. Not a PVE mob where there’s lots of randoms upscaling it.

Not really. I did Hami on CoH with pugs and a couple of people telling them the phases and what to do. The level of co-ordination is similar, and can easily be done with randoms if they know what to do and when. The difference here is that no-one is entirely sure what to do yet.

Mirta.5029:

Manoa.5897:

Hamidon Raids in City of Heroes required a significant amount of players and a similar level of coordination. When they revamped Hami Raids to be more difficult and engaging, it took some time for the players to puzzle out how to take him down. The players pulled together, worked together, kept at it, learned the new mechanics and nuances. And once they figured it out, they were able to take Hami down consistently and reliably.

The GW2 playerbase still needs a chance to puzzle Teq 2.0 out. Don’t let less than a day of playing dictate whether or not the new Teq is impossible.

What you’re talking about is a raid. Were people enter with an organized group. Not a PVE mob where there’s lots of randoms upscaling it.

You’re thinking raids WoW-style. COH Hami raids were nothing like that. Hami “Raids” were in an open zone that anyone at the appropriate level could enter. Everyone started out as a disorganized PvE mob of 50 random players (the max the zone would hold) who had to learn how to work together to puzzle out the content. Just like Teq 2.0. As time went on, those players puzzled it out, took Hami down reliably, bonded as a community and taught new players the mechanics to continue the knowledge.

Even though I think a few servers will get him down tomorrow or in the next week, he’ll need a nerf. Not because it’s too hard, but there’ll be less people after some weeks..

The best thing that could be added is more time to beat teq. I say raise it to 30-45min and see how it goes.

Manoa.5897:

You’re thinking raids WoW-style. COH Hami raids were nothing like that. Hami “Raids” were in an open zone that anyone at the appropriate level could enter. Everyone started out as a disorganized PvE mob of 50 random players (the max the zone would hold) who had to learn how to work together to puzzle out the content. Just like Teq 2.0. As time went on, those players puzzled it out, took Hami down reliably, bonded as a community and taught new players the mechanics to continue the knowledge.

Hami Raids were also one of the few ways to get Hami-Os which were the enhancement to have prior to IOs. In the last couple years I don’t recall a whole lot of Hami raids being PuGged, at least not as often as the mothership raids. Everyone <3 their IO set bonuses. And I also remember Keyes and Underground and MoM and how rarely those got PuGged before Keyes got nerfed.

Now if all you’re guaranteed from Teq is the world boss rare…

Uruz Six.6594:

Manoa.5897:

You’re thinking raids WoW-style. COH Hami raids were nothing like that. Hami “Raids” were in an open zone that anyone at the appropriate level could enter. Everyone started out as a disorganized PvE mob of 50 random players (the max the zone would hold) who had to learn how to work together to puzzle out the content. Just like Teq 2.0. As time went on, those players puzzled it out, took Hami down reliably, bonded as a community and taught new players the mechanics to continue the knowledge.

Hami Raids were also one of the few ways to get Hami-Os which were the enhancement to have prior to IOs. In the last couple years I don’t recall a whole lot of Hami raids being PuGged, at least not as often as the mothership raids. Everyone <3 their IO set bonuses. And I also remember Keyes and Underground and MoM and how rarely those got PuGged before Keyes got nerfed.

Now if all you’re guaranteed from Teq is the world boss rare…

The point I was making was that like Teq 2.0, Hami was challenging open-zone content that required a large group of players and with good coordination. Those players initially never worked together as a large group and had to invest quite a bit of time in order to puzzle out how to take him down when the mechanics were first introduced. It took time, but the players eventually puzzled it out. And when they puzzled him out, they were able to refine their tactics so they could to beat him reliably.

We can’t call for a nerf for Teq 2.0 when the players don’t even have a full grasp of the mechanics.

Manoa.5897:

The point I was making was that like Teq 2.0, Hami was challenging open-zone content that required a large group of players and with good coordination. Those players initially never worked together as a large group and had to invest quite a bit of time in order to puzzle out when the mechanics were first introduced. It took time, but the players eventually puzzled it out. And when they puzzled him out, they were able to beat him reliably.

We can’t call for a nerf for Teq 2.0 when the players don’t even have a full grasp of the mechanics.

Fair enough, that’s a solid point. What I’m saying, though, is that full grasp of the mechanics or not, if its not worth the trouble its not going to be worth the trouble. And I’m not sure if Anet is willing to let Teq rot if it turns out not worth the trouble.

Uruz Six.6594:

Manoa.5897:

The point I was making was that like Teq 2.0, Hami was challenging open-zone content that required a large group of players and with good coordination. Those players initially never worked together as a large group and had to invest quite a bit of time in order to puzzle out when the mechanics were first introduced. It took time, but the players eventually puzzled it out. And when they puzzled him out, they were able to beat him reliably.

We can’t call for a nerf for Teq 2.0 when the players don’t even have a full grasp of the mechanics.

Fair enough, that’s a solid point. What I’m saying, though, is that full grasp of the mechanics or not, if its not worth the trouble its not going to be worth the trouble. And I’m not sure if Anet is willing to let Teq rot if it turns out not worth the trouble.

Time will certainly tell whether or not the rewards make it worth the effort. But at this point, we have yet to puzzle this guy out. Much less whether the rewards are worth the effort involved (as we have no idea what the end reward is since nobody has taken him down yet).

At this point, it’s simply just too early to cry “NERF!”

Mirta.5029:

timestandstill.8964:

Not everyone is as easily discouraged as you. Go run CoF. You just made your 40 silver back plus some.

Because we all have time for everything in one day, do we?
Also I hope that not everyone is as easily discouraged. Else it will be yet another forgotten event.

Teq is a 15 minute fight for the first phase… if you have time to wipe on him for 15 minutes you have time to clear CoF which is usually less time… quit trolling. -_-

Manoa.5897:

I was part of that sneak peak. Please keep in mind the following…

*The developer intervention seemed to be only just enough to progress the event along so they could show off the whole event for the live stream.

*There were three groups of 20 people each participating who had never experienced the content before.

*The number of people we had participating was nowhere near the 80 players the devs said they though would be needed to take Teq down.

*We players were playing with a bunch of people we had never played with before and playing mechanics we had never encountered before.

*Many of us players didn’t have any time to digest the new mechanics.

*Many players didn’t have time to familiarize ourselves with the LFG tool and take advantage of it before we had to jump into the fray.

*We players were dumped onto pre-generated characters and many of us were playing unfamiliar builds. Most folks barely had a chance to swap out to different weapon sets.

*All the pre-made characters were on accounts with keybinds set to default, which very much felt like playing with your hands tied behind your back if you rely heavily on customized keybinds.

Due to the above factors, the Anniversary Bash sneak peek is NOT good support/evidence for nerfing Teq 2.0.

I was also part of the sneak peek. In the first group.

One thing you should probably know, Manoa. They lowered Teq’s health for the second group when the first failed that badly. Then again, and more drastically, for the third.

What I’m seeing in game in all the attempts I’ve been a part of on TC and on overflows is akin to that second PAX group. I honestly thing that the boss has either too much health/armor or that there is too little time.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Manoa.5897:

I honestly thing that the boss has either too much health/armor or that there is too little time.

And even with testing it – for 5 minutes – they released it while nobody was able to beat it in testing… What sort of release policy is that?

You are ment to have Ascended to beat him.

Andross.5183:

And even with testing it – for 5 minutes – they released it while nobody was able to beat it in testing… What sort of release policy is that?

To see how the community handles it.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Andross.5183:

And even with testing it – for 5 minutes – they released it while nobody was able to beat it in testing… What sort of release policy is that?

To see how the community handles it.

Well if after SAB 2.0 they still needed to see how the community reacts to content that is too difficult, they now have the perfect chance to do so. Until today I thought every MMO developer is trying to retain their player base, but Anet seems to be special – they are obviously trying to anger people enough so they quit playing their game entirely… That sounds like the perfect business strategy to me… Not.

Andross.5183:

Well if after SAB 2.0 they still needed to see how the community reacts to content that is too difficult, they now have the perfect chance to do so. Until today I thought every MMO developer is trying to retain their player base, but Anet seems to be special – they are obviously trying to anger people enough so they quit playing their game entirely… That sounds like the perfect business strategy to me… Not.

Nah. I think it’s more that they overestimated the community and don’t realize how on-the-edge most seem to be regarding the game.

i dont know if it needs a nerf, but from my point of view its still the same boring zergfest thats just drawn out longer due to a bigger healthpool. With a random zerg of people (especially after this isn’t ‘new’ anymore) the chance to fail is incredibly high which if you fail often makes it just not even worth your time to port out there because failing rewards squat. Certainly not worth sitting there for another respawn like I’ve been doing for the past three attempts since about…hell it’s 10:35 now so it’s been a good 5 hours now. Thank kitten for netflix right? Anyway…

However, this could be cool for guilds as long as they run trait checks and zerker checks to make sure they can get the damage they need and kick the bads from the group…sure why not.

dcypher, you can’t zerker Teq until those moments he’s stunned from the laser, because he’s normally immune to criticals. All other times it’s worth little to be a zerker.

So because you cant roflpwns the content on day1 you think people are going to up and quit? Nay, infact the challenge is going to bring people back once its proven to be done. Hell its going to have bragging rights for weeks, just being able to say “I took part and we killed teq”. Thats worth more to some people than 10 legendaries or any number of minis.

RyuDragnier.9476:

dcypher, you can’t zerker Teq until those moments he’s stunned from the laser, because he’s normally immune to criticals. All other times it’s worth little to be a zerker.

you still want whatever does the most damage in order to beat the timer…this is a veiled gear/trait check because dodging mostly everything in the fight is pretty easy. That was what I was trying to say.

Do you remember the Karka Queen? I can’t remember when she died last time on our server. I think nobody goes there anymore. She was the first big boss with a time constraint and what happened? People realised that she’s not worth the effort and that the chance for failure is much too high to risk wasting a lot of time. The same is about to happen with Tequatl. Open world bosses with time constraints do not work. I wonder how many more bosses Anet needs to ruin, until they notice that.

Andross, all the world bosses have time constraints now.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Andross, all the world bosses have time constraints now.

Great – at least they aren’t overly difficult yet, unlike Tequatl.

Andross.5183:

Do you remember the Karka Queen? I can’t remember when she died last time on our server. I think nobody goes there anymore. She was the first big boss with a time constraint and what happened? People realised that she’s not worth the effort and that the chance for failure is much too high to risk wasting a lot of time. The same is about to happen with Tequatl. Open world bosses with time constraints do not work. I wonder how many more bosses Anet needs to ruin, until they notice that.

Yea I agree. The guy above you talked about bragging rights… Hey everyone I killed Karka Queen….YaY

Andross.5183:

Do you remember the Karka Queen? I can’t remember when she died last time on our server. I think nobody goes there anymore. She was the first big boss with a time constraint and what happened? People realised that she’s not worth the effort and that the chance for failure is much too high to risk wasting a lot of time. The same is about to happen with Tequatl. Open world bosses with time constraints do not work. I wonder how many more bosses Anet needs to ruin, until they notice that.

The reward is well worth it now. Infact Ive been in a group thats killed Queen karka three times now on Gandara since the SAB patch and never ever even considered it prior to that.

Truth be told a lot of people want to do karka these days, or at least as far as Ive seen they have.

The difficulty definitely needs to be lowered. Its typical of everything they do, whenever they change something, its to the extreme. There is no middle ground with Arenanet.

You can mark my words, if they leave it like it is, eventually people will just not even do the event anymore and the zone will become a ghost town.

95% of your time is spent reviving others ( not even talking about people who are dead).

My personal opinion is… open world raids are something that most games don’t try for a reason-they don’t work. You and your guild of maybe 20 something people could be extremely talented and still wipe because you have a group of 280 others who don’t know what they’re doing.

I vote for a raid system with like 20 people to do Teq. So that way, you can tell what you’re doing wrong, who’s doing what, and can properly organize raids. It is much more satisfying when you have a group of 20 people who know what they’re doing finish a raid, instead of a group of 300 people killing a boss mindlessly. As I said before, it’s not that it’s too difficult, it’s that we need a way to organize ourselves, and I think a raid system would make this all possible.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Andross.5183:

And even with testing it – for 5 minutes – they released it while nobody was able to beat it in testing… What sort of release policy is that?

To see how the community handles it.

It’s just lazy work by anet.

Too much work to test and actually complete content. Just release it and let the user community figure it out. One big beta.

Mirta.5029:

kRiza krimos.1637:

How about fact that there is finnaly something for guilds to do in pve. I cant beleve what i read from some of posters here, starting with OP.

Yes it is hard, which is egzactly something this game needed badly. I guess that mentality “show up and get rewarded” is deeply rooted in this games population. Finnaly an event that is challenging, requires coordination, and after first fail here they are crying how its too hard.

Guilds have guild missions, open world bosses should be something everyone can participate in.

Junkpile.7439:

Failing should cost 10g. Maybe then we would see some serious attempts.

Failed twice. It cost me 40 silver. Won’t be trying again. Is there a point?

butch.8136:

Coordinate and win. Get 40 people organised and go to an overflow after it finished.
I think this boss is easy if organised well.

If they nerf this, it’ll be the ultimate stamp on gw2 “casual game”.

I thought that GW2 is a casual game and that world bosses are accessible to the masses and not only to the top elite.

Nobody can stop you from showing up.

kRiza krimos.1637:

Nobody can stop you from showing up.

Which is one of the reasons why Tequatl keeps failing and why GW2 “raids” like this are not raids in the traditional sense. There is barely any coordination and no requirements to be there. 6 people (fewer actually) can ruin the whole fight for everyone else, if they want to. In a real raid, players could try these bosses on their terms and coordinate properly with a limited amount of people.

Andross.5183:

Do you remember the Karka Queen? I can’t remember when she died last time on our server. I think nobody goes there anymore. She was the first big boss with a time constraint and what happened? People realised that she’s not worth the effort and that the chance for failure is much too high to risk wasting a lot of time. The same is about to happen with Tequatl. Open world bosses with time constraints do not work. I wonder how many more bosses Anet needs to ruin, until they notice that.

Kaineng does Karka Queen at least a couple times a day now. Fast and easy, best reward chest in the game, and there’s usually T6 nodes near where she spawns.

I’ve participated in about 6 attempts on Tequatl in Crystal Desert and all 6 never got below 75%. It happened to be my day off from work so I figured what the hell. I do consider myself a casual gamer and this is probably the most difficult dragon fight to date. what doesn’t help is the 15 min time period. if it were a 35 to 40 time period then the dragon being killed, but not on 15 min.

There has also been talk on TeamSpeak that ArenaNet never did a proper beta test and rushed the build out.
Either increase the time period or do a nerf on the dragon.

So basically it’s up to pure dumb luck that your server will happen to have enough people not on afk, who are willing to constantly revive at waypoints and who know what to do with the turrets. Or maybe you just need to be on a server with a larger population that is willing to learn faster than others. Which eliminates most of the servers out there, save for a handful. The vast majority of the players are unhappy with these changes and it requires small tweeking like lowering the health bar or increasing the time it takes to defeat him.

I’ve seen elitist attitudes about difficulty and fun ruin games like this over and over again. A game that is advertised as casual friendly will only have more deserted areas if the content in said places are too difficult. Has Anet learned nothing from SAB2?

I have little doubt some servers will beat this content, sooner rather than later. It may be happening even as I type. I have little doubt that some servers will do this event regularly. I have little doubt that some servers will never beat Teq, and will abandon the event. I have little doubt that those few players from those servers who are still interested will guest elsewhere, taking a spot away from some native. I have little doubt that the days of wandering open world and happening on challenging, fun events doable by just a few people are more in the past than in the present.

IndigoSundown.5419:

I have little doubt some servers will beat this content, sooner rather than later. It may be happening even as I type. I have little doubt that some servers will do this event regularly. I have little doubt that some servers will never beat Teq, and will abandon the event. I have little doubt that those few players from those servers who are still interested will guest elsewhere, taking a spot away from some native. I have little doubt that the days of wandering open world and happening on challenging, fun events doable by just a few people are more in the past than in the present.

Sad, but true. Sad, but true.

Mirta.5029:

Okay, I’m not crying about it. Difficulty increase is good. However this is a full map of people that genuinely tried for 15 minutes. Look where his health is at.

Asking for a nerf already, come on !
this is the only challenge in the game, nobody is forcing you to do it.
leave it for the challenge seekers to deal with it and go do the care bear pve stuff.

kitten sakes, the content hasn’t even been up a full day and already you want a kitten nerf, how about you take the time to learn the mechanics of the fight 1st !!!!

your kind is what is wrong with this game GOD !!!!! makes me kitten angry !!!!

Im From IOJ

I played against Teq about 3 times in 6 hours
first time I got to 89% second time it was 65% third time it was 60% Kept running out of time for some reason, had all major guilds on my server on there playing. hell even a few Guilds from WvW.

from what we learned from the first time Pugs were running Berserker builds, Can’t Crit a WB LoL.

but other than the Pugs can’t complain much I really liked it, Wish I had an extra 6 mins on Timer not to much to ask can’t really sit and farm with teq, It’s pretty decent challenge now.

Mirta.5029:

Hule.8794:

Are You on RoF? Because the same happened to us.

Underworld. But if RoF is EU the nwe might have been in the same overflow

Mythazor.4570:

Let’s complain about the difficulty 20 minutes after the update!!!!!!!!11one!1.

No.

Give people a chance to learn the fight before you start complaining.

I didn’t expect to succeed, however managing to only get 5% of his health off with a huge amount of people, fighting for 15 minutes (and yes there were people on turrets) I don’t think that the difficulty is right.

I am really amazed and shocked to see that a person from my server used the word “nerf” as a topic for Teq 2.0 . Being one of the biggest PvE servers in EU, people should be thinking positively, let us do it before Desolation or that kinda stuff. It’s not been 24 hours yet and Blackgate has done it, and they are a T1 WvW server. So it means a group of organized people can do it. Finally something challenging comes and people started the “nerf” cry within the 12 hour mark lol. Best you could ask ..is for better reward maybe , depending on the difficulty. It will be nerfed eventually, as nothing stays challenging in GW2 sadly. So I’d say learn the mechanics, try and eventually defeat it and you can say UW did it. Don’t worry about one autoattack-dodge-2rares boss as there are plenty of facerolls, like maw or behemoth. Let people get more organized on an event as it’s just been released. And don’t make Underworld known as Farming server from a PvE server. :/

They should NOT nerf the encounter, but they definitely should remove the timer completely. Let people take how long they take. If it takes an hour or more, it takes an hour or more. Of course you’d ideally WANT to take as little time as possible, so you can get on to other activities. If they want, they can leave in an achievement “beat Teq in under 15 minutes” for those that care, but for the rest of us, just let us play the game without a clock.

I think that’s fair, Ohoni. I know some servers may lack the people or teamwork needed to complete the event in the needed time. Yes, if the timer was removed, I’m betting it’ll make all these complaints go away.

Again, it’s an excellent suggestion.

It most certainly needs a time increase. How silly is it that the Claw of Jormag gets a 30 minute timer when the new Tequatl takes much more coordination and placement, yet only gets half the time.

At 30 mins it will still be very challenging!

Evans.6347:

It most certainly needs a time increase. How silly is it that the Claw of Jormag gets a 30 minute timer when the new Tequatl takes much more coordination and placement, yet only gets half the time.

At 30 mins it will still be very challenging!

Yeah but think about this, 30mins is still pretty long. If you’ve raided in WoW, you’d know that bosses (25man) only needed 5-7mins to kill them, most of the time spent is trash clearing (which is why ToC was clearable in 40mins).

15min timer would make sense if he only had enough HP to soak 5-7mins of dps.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

I think that’s fair, Ohoni. I know some servers may lack the people or teamwork needed to complete the event in the needed time. Yes, if the timer was removed, I’m betting it’ll make all these complaints go away.

Again, it’s an excellent suggestion.

I still think the timer is more for making sure all the servers (and overflows) are on the event at the same time and not overlapping. I don’t know if 15 minutes is necessary (I don’t see why it can’t be 30), but it seems to me like Arena.net wants to keep a tight schedule of appearances and downtime.

That would also make sense, Chemiclord, being that it appears near all the world bosses, including Shadow Behemoth, are now on this timer.

I wonder what brought about this change.

I just think they got the Claw of Jormag timer and the Teq timer reversed. It only took 15 minutes out of 30 to kill Claw on my server, but in the same 15 minutes, teq ended consistently at above 75% after 15 minutes.

People keep saying “oh, it’s a raid style content,” and that’s fine, if it was designed as a raid. But it isn’t, it’s an open world boss, with an open amount of participation. People that are poorly geared and/or poorly skilled can take the spot of others who would be more of an asset and more coordinated, and the thing is, everybody else shouldn’t be punished for that just because a few lackluster people want to participate and have fun.

Open world and raid content are really just contrasting mechanisms at that point.

Well, I suspect that once Claw gets IT’S rework, you’ll probably need all 30 of those minutes.

Dendail.4896:

Teq is a 15 minute fight for the first phase… if you have time to wipe on him for 15 minutes you have time to clear CoF which is usually less time… quit trolling. -_-

seriously not trolling. Sometimes you log on for enough time for either Tequatl or CoF.

demetrodon.1457:

I am really amazed and shocked to see that a person from my server used the word “nerf” as a topic for Teq 2.0 . Being one of the biggest PvE servers in EU, people should be thinking positively, let us do it before Desolation or that kinda stuff. It’s not been 24 hours yet and Blackgate has done it, and they are a T1 WvW server. So it means a group of organized people can do it. Finally something challenging comes and people started the “nerf” cry within the 12 hour mark lol. Best you could ask ..is for better reward maybe , depending on the difficulty. It will be nerfed eventually, as nothing stays challenging in GW2 sadly. So I’d say learn the mechanics, try and eventually defeat it and you can say UW did it. Don’t worry about one autoattack-dodge-2rares boss as there are plenty of facerolls, like maw or behemoth. Let people get more organized on an event as it’s just been released. And don’t make Underworld known as Farming server from a PvE server. :/

Did I ever ask for an auto attack boss? I’m asking for something that we could either actually beat or that wouldn’t cost 20 silver a try. I’m just disappointed that from now on I’ll probably never get to actually finish Tequatl again even if we try again and again. Or I could just go to Blackgate, like most people will do.

Mirta.5029:

Okay, I’m not crying about it. Difficulty increase is good. However this is a full map of people that genuinely tried for 15 minutes. Look where his health is at.

less zerker, more pvt

SynfulChaot.3169:

I was also part of the sneak peek. In the first group.

One thing you should probably know, Manoa. They lowered Teq’s health for the second group when the first failed that badly. Then again, and more drastically, for the third.

I’m well aware. They did the same for the first group as well. I did mention the dev intervention in my earlier list. Again, they did this so they could show off all phases of the revamp during the livestream. If they had not done dev intervention and left it entirely in the players’ hands, they would have not been able to progress far to show off the first battery event in the livestream since it was many people’s first time experiencing this content (not to mention on different builds and and had different keybinds)/

hmm. i kinda like how dragons don’t die after a minute or two of hackign and slashing it.