Guild Wars 2

illo.5106:

Making up to 1000G+ only with this ONE niche (Dusk) is pretty easy in my eyes – just think, how much time and effort it costs to get this amount of gold the “common” way.

Risk-reward says lolno here.

Precursor price is fairly stable short term (long term is quite a different story) which means flipping is somewhat minimal.

You saw people make a bit of gold as the price skyrocketed to 2000. Consider how much people lost as the price came back down to 1200.

Wanze.8410:

illo.5106:

linuxotaku.4731:

This only works when there’s sufficient demand above 700-800g (if not, those trying to manipulate the price will lose more than they make).

There’ll be always demand, because it’s a pre and due to the often unfair progress of getting it. And you will always find someone willing to pay the actual price, so they keep the bidding price getting up and on the raised level. Maybe those who are buying out of fear that it can be even more expensive next week – or those, who simply don’t care if it’s 100 G more or less.

linuxotaku.4731:

This particular example — whether it was one or several trying to flip Dusks — looks like more evidence that manipulating markets isn’t an easy way to make money.

Making up to 1000G+ only with this ONE niche (Dusk) is pretty easy in my eyes – just think, how much time and effort it costs to get this amount of gold the “common” way.

In order to make 1000g+ profit just with Dusk, you need 10000g+ initial investment in the first place. If you consider the high initial investment, there are better ones out there, that make you faster profit.

real estate can work the same way irl, and yet it is a pretty common investment. 10% interest is 10% the initial investment only matters when you are poor.

As for smaller investments, they are really good, but they are short term and have a low limit in the market.
for example say you have a crafting recipe that makes 1 gold with a 3 gold investment, or 33% profit, seems great, till you realize manufacturing more than 5 a day begins to flood the market, doing more than 10, crashes it completely. so that limits you at around 5 gold a day, then you have to find a new hustle. so on, and so forth.

dusk is also a limited market, but each sale is a lot more huge, and unlike the crafted mats, so far dusk has always gone up, eventually.

Short story
large initial investment: only matters if you dont have massie gold
Other hustles: yes and one may already invested in them to their limits and looking for more things to invest in.
Dusk has consistently gone up over time at a faster rate than inflation, which means it would be better to turn your money into dusks than keep it as gold.

I think one reason, why the price went up after last patch, we didnt even consider yet and that is the price of mithril and elder wood.

To craft a rare lvl 80 greatsword, roughly 40% of the crafting costs are needed for those two ressources. And due to the exchange for supply boxes, mithril experienced a price spike of 50-75% right after the patch.

If I was a professional precursor forger, i would have taken a break right after the patch or list my dusk at a higher price to cover the additional crafting/forge costs.

Wanze.8410:

I think one reason, why the price went up after last patch, we didnt even consider yet and that is the price of mithril and elder wood.

To craft a rare lvl 80 greatsword, roughly 40% of the crafting costs are needed for those two ressources. And due to the exchange for supply boxes, mithril experienced a price spike of 50-75% right after the patch.

If I was a professional precursor forger, i would have taken a break right after the patch or list my dusk at a higher price to cover the additional crafting/forge costs.

whats the cause of that anyhow?
i mean even with a supply box, shouldnt people use the cheapest material available?
considering taxes of course

phys.7689:

Short story
large initial investment: only matters if you dont have massie gold
Other hustles: yes and one may already invested in them to their limits and looking for more things to invest in.
Dusk has consistently gone up over time at a faster rate than inflation, which means it would be better to turn your money into dusks than keep it as gold.

Dusk went down the last couple of days, does that mean, we actually had deflation at a higher rate in the last couple of days?

I think it would be interesting for alot of people, to know how you determine inflation/deflation in game without having any data about how much gold per day is generated and sunk in and out of the game to make such claims.

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

I think one reason, why the price went up after last patch, we didnt even consider yet and that is the price of mithril and elder wood.

To craft a rare lvl 80 greatsword, roughly 40% of the crafting costs are needed for those two ressources. And due to the exchange for supply boxes, mithril experienced a price spike of 50-75% right after the patch.

If I was a professional precursor forger, i would have taken a break right after the patch or list my dusk at a higher price to cover the additional crafting/forge costs.

whats the cause of that anyhow?
i mean even with a supply box, shouldnt people use the cheapest material available?
considering taxes of course

1.) Even the cheapest material available will not be the cheapest for long. People will flock to the most efficient material and buy it up to the point that it is on the same level as other materials.

2.) Not all buyers in the market are rational. Thick Leather Section buyers are such an example.

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

I think one reason, why the price went up after last patch, we didnt even consider yet and that is the price of mithril and elder wood.

To craft a rare lvl 80 greatsword, roughly 40% of the crafting costs are needed for those two ressources. And due to the exchange for supply boxes, mithril experienced a price spike of 50-75% right after the patch.

If I was a professional precursor forger, i would have taken a break right after the patch or list my dusk at a higher price to cover the additional crafting/forge costs.

whats the cause of that anyhow?
i mean even with a supply box, shouldnt people use the cheapest material available?
considering taxes of course

People, especially casuals, dont always act rational on the tp. The same goes with the supply boxes. I guess, when the trader went live, people just used whatever they had in the collectible tabs and were gathering over the first couple of days, to trade it for supply boxes. Usually they would sell those mats on the tp but now they didnt, so supply on the tp dried up and prices rose.

To the OP, I also have a Master in Economics, and a PhD, and I agree on the cause of the price increase as you said, but you are forgetting something about market forces. If the sellers put the price too high they would not be able to sell it and because new supply is being created all the time (precursors continue to drop) the price will go down again until it reaches the equilibrium price but not to the same levels as before, because as you said, the demand curve also shifted. In a market economy, the price will always be in equilibrium in the medium to long term.

illo.5106:

linuxotaku.4731:

This only works when there’s sufficient demand above 700-800g (if not, those trying to manipulate the price will lose more than they make).

There’ll be always demand, because it’s a pre and due to the often unfair progress of getting it. And you will always find someone willing to pay the actual price, so they keep the bidding price getting up and on the raised level. Maybe those who are buying out of fear that it can be even more expensive next week – or those, who simply don’t care if it’s 100 G more or less.

I am aware that the supply/demand curve predicts continued demand at all price points. However, there are other sources of the Dusk other than the TP — even if only 24 drop each day (to players who don’t want them and will thus list them on the TP), if you push the price to the point where demand is only 20, then you have to make enough money to accumulate 4 extra dusks each day to avoid having the price move down from your desired range, and if the range is > 15%, you’re vulnerable to competition. The range for Dusk doesn’t really have space for flipping anymore, so I’m not sure how you make money on this scheme … if you inflate demand somehow (encouraging people to believe that they have to buy now or the price will go up), you can maybe get a few to pay more than they would have be willing otherwise (and scare a few who got drops into waiting longer to sell) … but this sounds like you’d mostly be throwing away money to keep the price in a range where demand is less than supply.

illo.5106:

linuxotaku.4731:

This particular example — whether it was one or several trying to flip Dusks — looks like more evidence that manipulating markets isn’t an easy way to make money.

Making up to 1000G+ only with this ONE niche (Dusk) is pretty easy in my eyes – just think, how much time and effort it costs to get this amount of gold the “common” way.

If you mean buying when the price is 700g because you think the price has room to rise — esp after the wardrobe announcement — that’s speculation. There are lots of available markets where you can make a lot of money if you’re correct with your speculation (over 1000g, with relatively minimal effort … but some risk).

If you think you can make 1000G doing range trading or price manipulation … right now the range isn’t large enough to make that seem an easy proposition; and I’m unconvinced that the attempts to do the latter will be successful. I could be wrong, of course … I haven’t tried this, and what I do professionally isn’t anything like this market.

I agree that you could have made a lot betting that precursors would continue to rise after the wardrobe announcement, though.

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

Short story
large initial investment: only matters if you dont have massie gold
Other hustles: yes and one may already invested in them to their limits and looking for more things to invest in.
Dusk has consistently gone up over time at a faster rate than inflation, which means it would be better to turn your money into dusks than keep it as gold.

Dusk went down the last couple of days, does that mean, we actually had deflation at a higher rate in the last couple of days?

I think it would be interesting for alot of people, to know how you determine inflation/deflation in game without having any data about how much gold per day is generated and sunk in and out of the game to make such claims.

i said at a faster rate than inflation, I specifically didnt say that dusk was inflation because people have a lot of contention with that word

maybe i wasnt clear
dusks price goes up faster than the the inflation of gold in general.

IE say moneys value has had minimal inflation in a year, say 1%(just a random value for purpose of illustration) dusk has doubled in price. that means its better to turn any money that is not being used to make more money into items like dusk, or commodities.

If you want to say things havent inflated, thats fine, but it actually makes dusk an even better investment.

Unless YOU are saying dusks inflation represents inflation in general, and money is essentially half as valuable as before, but thats not what I was saying anyhow.

i see people like to disagree with me, and pay little attention to what i am actually saying.

You’re speaking to people who make their profit from the inefficiencies of the market. Some of them have a conflict of interest in discussing more efficiency/velocity in the market, and others are blinded by their position in the current status quo.

There have been plenty of people whose replies to you have been less educational than no reply, but understand that some of them are also being rationally irrational. I think Wanze himself has been pretty fair.

In addition, there has been valid skepticism of profitable precursor manipulation, as there are many more safe and profitable ways of investing that 1000-2000g. People have not been arguing that precursors aren’t being manipulated; they’re mostly saying that it’s generally not profitable and they wouldn’t touch it with a 30 ft pole themselves.

I thought that even unranked economics departments would teach time series analysis. Prices get volatile after a shock, and individual data points during that period of volatility tell you next to nothing about where prices will stabilize.

Especially if you’re cherry picking the highs and lows of the fluctuations. Yes, you found someone making a mistake in a low information period and blowing themselves up. It’s happened thousands of times before and this won’t be the last. Why think it’s more than that?

DaveGan.8065:

i see people like to disagree with me, and pay little attention to what i am actually saying.

You’re speaking to people who make their profit from the inefficiencies of the market. Some of them have a conflict of interest in discussing more efficiency/velocity in the market, and others are blinded by their position in the current status quo.

There have been plenty of people whose replies to you have been less educational than no reply, but understand that some of them are also being rationally irrational. I think Wanze himself has been pretty fair.

In addition, there has been valid skepticism of profitable precursor manipulation, as there are many more safe and profitable ways of investing that 1000-2000g. People have not been arguing that precursors aren’t being manipulated; they’re mostly saying that it’s generally not profitable and they wouldn’t touch it with a 30 ft pole themselves.

yeah i edited out that line because, it wont really solve anything for me to say that.

That said, my claim is not really that precursors are being “manipulated” merely that there are times when it makes economic sense, to try to buy out the supply, or list them at high prices. regardless to anything else, we can say that the move is correlated to an increase in the average sale value since the event. Even not counting those that sold previously, the value is currently at 100 gold more than before. And for the short term investors, they saw increases of 200-400 gold.

as for other means of investing, as i said, yes there are other means, but the richer you get, the more different investments you need, because each investment has a limit to how much of it you can do at a time.

Ensign.2189:

I thought that even unranked economics departments would teach time series analysis. Prices get volatile after a shock, and individual data points during that period of volatility tell you next to nothing about where prices will stabilize.

Especially if you’re cherry picking the highs and lows of the fluctuations. Yes, you found someone making a mistake in a low information period and blowing themselves up. It’s happened thousands of times before and this won’t be the last. Why think it’s more than that?

i understand what you are saying, but what exactly is the endpoint of what you are saying?
or the main idea?

this is a shock period and everything is unknown? i dont know if people were really disagreeing with that.

phys.7689:

That said, my claim is not really that precursors are being “manipulated” merely that there are times when it makes economic sense, to try to buy out the supply, or list them at high prices.

Precursor speculation creates more net loss than gain. The only difference is that the gains and losses are not uniform. A lot of people gain a bit as the speculation goes on, and then a few people (sometimes also the people who gained a bit) lose a lot when it crashes.

Nobody knows when the bubble will burst, so it’s a high risk, medium reward venture.

phys.7689:

Ensign.2189:

I thought that even unranked economics departments would teach time series analysis. Prices get volatile after a shock, and individual data points during that period of volatility tell you next to nothing about where prices will stabilize.

Especially if you’re cherry picking the highs and lows of the fluctuations. Yes, you found someone making a mistake in a low information period and blowing themselves up. It’s happened thousands of times before and this won’t be the last. Why think it’s more than that?

i understand what you are saying, but what exactly is the endpoint of what you are saying?
or the main idea?

this is a shock period and everything is unknown? i dont know if people were really disagreeing with that.

The main point is that its basic market forces at work here and not a few rich people messing with the market.

What happened to Dusk since patch is more related to raised demand due to changes made to Eternity and and a price spike to mithril which raised the average forging costs of dusk.

The market for a precursor has a way too high volume and supply cant be manipulated efficiently by anyone or any group to have an impact higher than general demand and supply from the average player base.

DaveGan.8065:

phys.7689:

That said, my claim is not really that precursors are being “manipulated” merely that there are times when it makes economic sense, to try to buy out the supply, or list them at high prices.

Precursor speculation creates more net loss than gain. The only difference is that the gains and losses are not uniform. A lot of people gain a bit as the speculation goes on, and then a few people (sometimes also the people who gained a bit) lose a lot when it crashes.

Nobody knows when the bubble will burst, so it’s a high risk, medium reward venture.

Hmm, i think its a high stakes game, but i think some people play it well, and turn a pretty decent profit.

probably not as much and definately not as stable as some other ventures, but those really stable ventures generally take a lot more time, or a lot more work to make the same gold.

Im very certain that constantly reinvesting in smaller ventures repeatedly will grow you money a lot faster (due to geometric growth), but you have to be constantly monitoring, redjusting, find new markets, or possibly just buying and listing a ton of items. That work has a real cost in time and effort that you consider when you consider profit.

also every market has instabilities, and you can get caught out there. something you at one time could do 20 times a day, sometimes something happens, and for whatever reason takes a week to bear fruit. the advantage is thats less money tied up if that happens, but that is only a consideration if you dont have tons of money to tie up.

APW.1569:

phys.7689:

Ensign.2189:

I thought that even unranked economics departments would teach time series analysis. Prices get volatile after a shock, and individual data points during that period of volatility tell you next to nothing about where prices will stabilize.

Especially if you’re cherry picking the highs and lows of the fluctuations. Yes, you found someone making a mistake in a low information period and blowing themselves up. It’s happened thousands of times before and this won’t be the last. Why think it’s more than that?

i understand what you are saying, but what exactly is the endpoint of what you are saying?
or the main idea?

this is a shock period and everything is unknown? i dont know if people were really disagreeing with that.

The main point is that its basic market forces at work here and not a few rich people messing with the market.

What happened to Dusk since patch is more related to raised demand due to changes made to Eternity and and a price spike to mithril which raised the average forging costs of dusk.

The market for a precursor has a way too high volume and supply cant be manipulated efficiently by anyone or any group to have an impact higher than general demand and supply from the average player base.

I dont think the value of the item can go past the what the market will bear, but that is kind of impossible for it to do so, what the market will bear is defined as what it sells at.

I do think people can alter prices in the short term via buying selling etc, in times of shock though. Not that that is wrong, but it is something they are known to do, and will do, and until the dust settles(in fact it is the service JS believes they provide, faster equilibrium), no one knows who is genius and who is fool. I think the key for a lot of people, is this is only something that extremely rich people can even play at. So they in general feel helpless, because the dude with 800 or even 1000 doesnt have much say in the high end precursor game. But this is according to game design.

phys.7689:

APW.1569:

phys.7689:

Ensign.2189:

I thought that even unranked economics departments would teach time series analysis. Prices get volatile after a shock, and individual data points during that period of volatility tell you next to nothing about where prices will stabilize.

Especially if you’re cherry picking the highs and lows of the fluctuations. Yes, you found someone making a mistake in a low information period and blowing themselves up. It’s happened thousands of times before and this won’t be the last. Why think it’s more than that?

i understand what you are saying, but what exactly is the endpoint of what you are saying?
or the main idea?

this is a shock period and everything is unknown? i dont know if people were really disagreeing with that.

The main point is that its basic market forces at work here and not a few rich people messing with the market.

What happened to Dusk since patch is more related to raised demand due to changes made to Eternity and and a price spike to mithril which raised the average forging costs of dusk.

The market for a precursor has a way too high volume and supply cant be manipulated efficiently by anyone or any group to have an impact higher than general demand and supply from the average player base.

I dont think the value of the item can go past the what the market will bear, but that is kind of impossible for it to do so, what the market will bear is defined as what it sells at.

I do think people can alter prices in the short term via buying selling etc, in times of shock though. Not that that is wrong, but it is something they are known to do, and will do, and until the dust settles(in fact it is the service JS believes they provide, faster equilibrium), no one knows who is genius and who is fool. I think the key for a lot of people, is this is only something that extremely rich people can even play at. So they in general feel helpless, because the dude with 800 or even 1000 doesnt have much say in the high end precursor game. But this is according to game design.

Of course people can alter prices via buying and selling, thats how this economy works.
I dont doubt that some people make decent profit with precursors either because, as you mentioned, if you speculate on the price to rise, its an easy couple of hundred gold profit just with a few clicks, if you know what your are doing and know the market.

But its still hard to believe that those people are responsible for the mayority of supply and demand and therefore have any significant impact on the price rise because that is determined by those players that pay the price and bind the dusk to their account.

phys.7689:

That said, my claim is not really that precursors are being “manipulated” merely that there are times when it makes economic sense, to try to buy out the supply, or list them at high prices. regardless to anything else, we can say that the move is correlated to an increase in the average sale value since the event. Even not counting those that sold previously, the value is currently at 100 gold more than before. And for the short term investors, they saw increases of 200-400 gold.

Then the situation is no different than other recent happenings, where items such as unidentified dyes, runes, various crafting materials and such went up in price (often doubling or tripling or more) and then fell abruptly when there was, um, “irrational exuberance” and speculation following announced changes to the game. The main difference being that while individual units were worth more, the actual sale value of Dusk went up only 40% to 50% instead of several 100%.

That is, people got excited about the potential of the market and overreacted, a few people made some money and a lot of people got burned.

Well, at least your stepping back from your conspiracy theories from the other day. Good progress towards learning what really happened.

tolunart.2095:

phys.7689:

That said, my claim is not really that precursors are being “manipulated” merely that there are times when it makes economic sense, to try to buy out the supply, or list them at high prices. regardless to anything else, we can say that the move is correlated to an increase in the average sale value since the event. Even not counting those that sold previously, the value is currently at 100 gold more than before. And for the short term investors, they saw increases of 200-400 gold.

Then the situation is no different than other recent happenings, where items such as unidentified dyes, runes, various crafting materials and such went up in price (often doubling or tripling or more) and then fell abruptly when there was, um, “irrational exuberance” and speculation following announced changes to the game. The main difference being that while individual units were worth more, the actual sale value of Dusk went up only 40% to 50% instead of several 100%.

That is, people got excited about the potential of the market and overreacted, a few people made some money and a lot of people got burned.

Well, at least your stepping back from your conspiracy theories from the other day. Good progress towards learning what really happened.

Conspiracy just means that people were acting to achieve a certain goal, you believe it was just a natural phenomenon, i believe people put it into play with intent to profit.

its like global warming, it can be proven that the average temperature of the earth is increasing, some people beleive it is natural, and others believe it is man made.

Actual global warming is a natural process that is being accelerated by the actions of humans. We are a phenomenon that has never happened before in the history of the earth. Evolution works on scales involving millions of years, mankind went from hunting with sharp sticks and rocks to nuclear fission in a few thousand years. The world simply isn’t prepared to react to our actions quickly, and the industrial process, pollution, overpopulation and such has knocked nature out of balance. We are seeing the beginnings of nature’s attempt to return to equilibrium.

But I digress. The TP is not so different, but it reacts to changes in hours, not years. I remembered something I heard on one of those medical TV shows about young doctors thinking their patients have some exotic disease – “when you hear hoofbeats, think of horses, not zebras.”

Or to apply Occam’s Razor, the simplest explanation is usually the best. And the simplest explanation is that someone (or several unconnected individuals) is trying to take advantage of the increase in demand for precursors to try to manipulate the market. And failing miserably, because they cannot maintain the artificial price increases long enough to profit from them.

That there are several individuals working together would require several people to sacrifice hundreds of gold in profit so that others can make money – why? There’s no point to it. As others have pointed out, there are other ways to make more money with less risk. This is a high profile market and I can accept someone with too much money is doing it just for fun, but this is an extremely foolish way for a cartel of TP traders to make money when they can just ride the shifts in demand that come naturally.

Now just under 1300g with one appearing to sell for 1111.1111g today.

Wanze.8410:

In order to make 1000g+ profit just with Dusk, you need 10000g+ initial investment in the first place. If you consider the high initial investment, there are better ones out there, that make you faster profit.

Sure, but with greater risk potential, because many could join in. I loved trading with “GW pennystocks” like sigills, runes or cosmetic stuff, that are way cheaper – but I had to compete against more players joining the market, when I got the prices up. TP with Pre’s is kinda safer compared to this – I made my biggest profits when I started flipping the “cheap” pre’s with some mates. The profit per item was lower in %, but higher in gold and almost on the same gold/day level. So I had to flip less items and to sacrifice less time for the same amount of gold.

And: a lot of TP guys and gold sellers have no problem with such a high initial investment. I met e.g. a lot of players during my TP time, that sometimes didn’t even had an Level 80 char and played this game like a tycoon game.

You don’t need to have a max level toon to buy gems. Put $25 into gems for initial investment, make smart trades, and you’ll have the riches level 2 toon in the game.

i wish i could sell my twilight gs. i regret getting this. everyone has it now and it’s not unique. i never use mine. biggest mistake. just waits in storage…

phys.7689:

i understand what you are saying, but what exactly is the endpoint of what you are saying?
or the main idea?

The point is that cherry picking high points out of a really volatile series and using it to justify theories about monopolism and manipulation makes you a hack.

Add in appeals to authority, which are awful in the best of circumstances, while making incredibly shoddy arguments; this is rabble rousing, pure and simple.

Pray For Kosmos.5849:

i wish i could sell my twilight gs. i regret getting this. everyone has it now and it’s not unique. i never use mine. biggest mistake. just waits in storage…

It was never intended to unique or limited to prevent a select few to feel special for owning it, and it was never advertised as such either. The skins are there for players to enjoy using them. Any other motive to obtain a skin is not justified.

Pray For Kosmos.5849:

i wish i could sell my twilight gs. i regret getting this. everyone has it now and it’s not unique. i never use mine. biggest mistake. just waits in storage…

There are somewhere around four million accounts. How can you expect anything in the game to truly be unique? If just 1% of the players had a Twilight, there would be around 40,000 of them.

also, there are plenty of other infrequently seen (and cheaper) greatswords if all you care about is uniqueness. Go buy a beladonna of dreams, make a foefire’s essence or volcanus, etc…

I like that the people asking the question missing the point of what a Legendary weapon is all about …

Obtena.7952:

I like that the people asking the question missing the point of what a Legendary weapon is all about …

What a Legendary is all about is different for every player — no one person can dictate that meaning for all players. I’m not surprised you feel differently though.

juno.1840:

Obtena.7952:

I like that the people asking the question missing the point of what a Legendary weapon is all about …

What a Legendary is all about is different for every player — no one person can dictate that meaning for all players. I’m not surprised you feel differently though.

Agreed, but as a player you certainly don’t get to dictate how easy or hard it is to get, regardless of what it means to you. This is the ‘about’ I’m referring to.

I find extremely ridiculous a TP where its clear people put fake offers to push prices.

Precursor X goes under price Y?
Let them put a 100+ gold offer for no reason…..they don t risk much since they are manipulating the price with guilds and friends

If you put something under price K, they buy and relist.

This is called cartel and is illegal in real economy…but in GW2 economy is a bad joke…

P.S: unique sellers…. yeah what about looking at those unique sellers/buyers friendlist?
What i really hate about john Smith is how he gives partial information that leads to wrong assumptions.

Can you STATE there is no precursor manipulation (not monopoly) officially?
I guess you won’t…..

All that the slew of fake 1c orders do is push items onto the TP Top 10 Bids list.

Starting a bidding war and pulling out once it gets high enough I can understand and that can be, well the upping of bids, by bot. Unless manned however you could end up with items you don’t want.

There are not only 1c fake orders.
There are also people who up the bids with 50-200 gold for few hours to push the min offer.

As anyone outbid they remove until the price get low again and proceed again.

Why on earth would you outbid an offer by 200 if not to push the price?
Most of times would be easier even to “buy now”…

And its not something new…..

It happens even on low value goods they put a single item at a real low price in the hope someone buy a stack at way higher price.

All things that would not happen in real economy.

There isn’t a proper control of the economy in gw2, to arrest the inflation, the speculation and so on.
But Anet doesn’t care that much about it, cause in this case if something “unexpected” happen, it will be in favor of Anet in anycase.
See the answer of that dev.

Precursors increased in the price for about 10% in 1 month.
However is not that normal to grind 1200g for a kittening precursor, neither is normal that the price itself is 1200g, neither is normal that precursors are lucky-drop only.

LordByron.8369:

There are not only 1c fake orders.
There are also people who up the bids with 50-200 gold for few hours to push the min offer.

As anyone outbid they remove until the price get low again and proceed again.

Why on earth would you outbid an offer by 200 if not to push the price?
Most of times would be easier even to “buy now”…

And its not something new…..

It happens even on low value goods they put a single item at a real low price in the hope someone buy a stack at way higher price.

All things that would not happen in real economy.

The more you up the highest bid, the faster your buy order gets filled.
How you can determine that those bids are for manipulation is beyond me.
Whats next? as soon as somebody buys the lowest listing of a precursor you deem it manipulation too?

this thread is cute considering that there are several dusks selling at around 1180g right now

So basically within a week it’s virtually at the same price as before the spike.

Behellagh.1468:

So basically within a week it’s virtually at the same price as before the spike.

This must be the doing of a super rich cartel of samaritans, that stocked up on precursors early in the game or keep forging day and night and whenever precursors run out of supply by popular demand of the general player base, they just put new ones onto the tp, undercutting each other, to lower prices.

I cant think of any other reason, why the price would go down, must be market manipulation.

Wanze.8410:

Behellagh.1468:

So basically within a week it’s virtually at the same price as before the spike.

This must be the doing of a super rich cartel of samaritans, that stocked up on precursors early in the game or keep forging day and night and whenever precursors run out of supply by popular demand of the general player base, they just put new ones onto the tp, undercutting each other, to lower prices.

I cant think of any other reason, why the price would go down, must be market manipulation.

well, i didnt think it would drop down this fast, which is actually more disturbing. It presents the possibility that the precursor market is slow and suceptible to forced scarcities.

still possible there was a micro boost in demand, but yeah, if the price stayed high it would just have showed there was a new market value, and some people pushed it.

I think the rate it changed shows the market responds really quickly to schemes where people try to artificially jack up the prices, demonstrating they don’t work. I guess it’s a matter of perspective.

Getting lucky or grinding out a bunch of gold does not seem legendary to me, so I don’t do it.

The fact is that ANet make MONEY from rl purchases. That’s the biggest issue here and why we are stuck in this sorry state for Legendary acquisition.

Multiple legendary holders are anything but skilled players.

EDITED: Because some people can’t see the forest for the trees.

Much Pro, such achievement, wow.

SoPP.7034:

I currently sit on 18k+ AP.

I have the Dungeon Master title.

I have a high lvl FotM rating.

I have a wolf rank in PvP,

I have 100k kills in WvW.

I even beat Liadri down.

I have no legendary.

I don’t deserve a legendary, but given my time and effort in the game I deserve meaningful progression towards one. Progression towards one by the fact I PLAY THE ACTUAL GAME.

Getting lucky or grinding out a bunch of gold does not seem legendary to me, so I don’t do it.

The fact is that ANet make MONEY from rl purchases. That’s the biggest issue here and why we are stuck in this sorry state for Legendary acquisition.

Multiple legendary holders are anything but skilled players.

Wow, such a good player. Please tell us more about how wvw kills and PvP rank which you can just farm, liadri which takes almost zero skill, dungeon master which you can just buy and fotm rank which you can just be carried through are demonstrations of skill.

maha.7902:

SoPP.7034:

I currently sit on 18k+ AP.

I have the Dungeon Master title.

I have a high lvl FotM rating.

I have a wolf rank in PvP,

I have 100k kills in WvW.

I even beat Liadri down.

I have no legendary.

I don’t deserve a legendary, but given my time and effort in the game I deserve meaningful progression towards one. Progression towards one by the fact I PLAY THE ACTUAL GAME.

Getting lucky or grinding out a bunch of gold does not seem legendary to me, so I don’t do it.

The fact is that ANet make MONEY from rl purchases. That’s the biggest issue here and why we are stuck in this sorry state for Legendary acquisition.

Multiple legendary holders are anything but skilled players.

Wow, such a good player. Please tell us more about how wvw kills and PvP rank which you can just farm, liadri which takes almost zero skill, dungeon master which you can just buy and fotm rank which you can just be carried through are demonstrations of skill.

and how does Tp playing show any more skill? or lottery winning from the mystic forge.

maha.7902:

Wow, such a good player. Please tell us more about how wvw kills and PvP rank which you can just farm, liadri which takes almost zero skill, dungeon master which you can just buy and fotm rank which you can just be carried through are demonstrations of skill.

If you’d bothered to read what he posted…..

From what I see he actually plays the game and his comments about skill were related to legendary acquisition and he was asking for meaningful progression.

You must be one of the multi-legendary wep holders he was talking about.

and how does Tp playing show any more skill? or lottery winning from the mystic forge.

If TP flipping didn’t take skill, everyone would do it, everyone would be able to do it and there wouldn’t be all of these complaint threads. Same applies with how people say “PvE takes no skill” – well if that was the case everyone would be trying to sell Arah paths and have no buyers since anyone could do it since it would take no skill.

f you’d bothered to read what he posted…..

From what I see he actually plays the game and his comments about skill were related to legendary acquisition and he was asking for meaningful progression.

You must be one of the multi-legendary wep holders he was talking about.

Or I’m just someone who realises that nothing he listed is a demonstration of skill, and people playing the TP are playing the game just as much as everyone else is. TP speculators and flippers are the ones who depress prices (exhibit #1 – unidentified dyes), introduce supply of highly demanded items (that they hold on to) and are doing the community a service by offering their goods – it’s your average “player” who is responsible for price spikes, if people weren’t so willing to pay massive prices for things, they’d just crash down to a level at which people would be willing to pay for them.

maha.7902:

Same applies with how people say “PvE takes no skill”

maha.7902:

Or I’m just someone who realises that nothing he listed is a demonstration of skill

Well either it does or it doesn’t and picking and choosing your argument along with your “because I said so” doesn’t make you look any better.

For all intents and purposes you’ve completely missed the point and got hung up on inconsequential information that you subsequently disagreed with yourself over.