Guild Wars 2

There are players right now who feel Entitled to a Precursor. They want easier access to it, simply because they desire it. Much like a government that controls the output of all goods, these players are demanding that this luxury item be shared with the masses, so as to have no class divisions between the lucky or rich players from the Casual ones.

Right now, in our current state, Casual gamers are liken to the Proletariat, while TP players are much like Bourgeoisie. Arguments between these classes are lop sided, since rich players are few, and the Casual or non-rich are the majority. But just because the majority would demand a certain thing from the government to make them happy, the government currently knows better than to give into the demands.

Human nature is to want. There is no problem with wanting to own a Dusk. There is no problem asking for a Dusk. But you need to take a step back, and look at the situation from a perspective that’s beyond just yourself. You would satisfy your own desires if you got what you wanted, but where would that lead the GW2 community as a whole if everyone suddenly had something that was ultra rare?

If you want a Precursor just so you can make a Legendary, you have cheap options to pick from on the TP. If you want Dusk because Twilight is cool looking, or is a status symbol since it’s pretty, or whatever, that’s your choice. Having made that choice, you join the thousands of others with the same desire, competing for the same item on the TP. If someone is willing to spend more Gold than you can afford to spend, then your options become limited. And because you made that choice, you agree to live with the consequences.

Title misleading. Please re-title it as precursors that you’ll never see because underwater weapons selling for 90g. Thanks.

Seriously though, if you had made the argument/point about Rodgort’s Flame or something you would have been better off.

Telling people to be happy with an underwater legendaries is like some one saying they want a more affordable car and you point them towards a go cart.

Ohoni.6057:

I read them the first time through and they didn’t make your case. They aren’t worth re-reading.

No. You just don’t agree with them and are trying to shrug them off as nothing as you cannot argue against them.

Aberrant.6749:

Title misleading. Please re-title it as precursors that you’ll never see because underwater weapons selling for 90g. Thanks.

Seriously though, if you had made the argument/point about Rodgort’s Flame or something you would have been better off.

I posted a pic of Rodgort’s in my OP, and made mention about it’s price as well. The main thing here is that people complained that Precursors were too expensive or hard to get. I disproved that by showing people that there are Precursors that are affordable.

I think the use of entitlement kind of place the blame on the players. But more or less players always complain if they don’t like something.

I think the truth is GW2 is just like any other Korean cashshop mmorpg. The payment model dictate how the game is designed. The real reason legendary is so expensive so a certain fraction of players will always be out of money and they’ll be pushed to buy gems.

Players shouldn’t complain about precursor price because it is your fault that you play a cashshop game. If you dont’ like the system, you should go play subscription or freemium games. Because quite honestly GW2 is already one of the most lenient cashshop games out there.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

There are players right now who feel Entitled to a Precursor. They want easier access to it, simply because they desire it. Much like a government that controls the output of all goods, these players are demanding that this luxury item be shared with the masses, so as to have no class divisions between the lucky or rich players from the Casual ones.

Right now, in our current state, Casual gamers are liken to the Proletariat, while TP players are much like Bourgeoisie. Arguments between these classes are lop sided, since rich players are few, and the Casual or non-rich are the majority. But just because the majority would demand a certain thing from the government to make them happy, the government currently knows better than to give into the demands.

Human nature is to want. There is no problem with wanting to own a Dusk. There is no problem asking for a Dusk. But you need to take a step back, and look at the situation from a perspective that’s beyond just yourself. You would satisfy your own desires if you got what you wanted, but where would that lead the GW2 community as a whole if everyone suddenly had something that was ultra rare?

If you want a Precursor just so you can make a Legendary, you have cheap options to pick from on the TP. If you want Dusk because Twilight is cool looking, or is a status symbol since it’s pretty, or whatever, that’s your choice. Having made that choice, you join the thousands of others with the same desire, competing for the same item on the TP. If someone is willing to spend more Gold than you can afford to spend, then your options become limited. And because you made that choice, you agree to live with the consequences.

Woahwoahwoah let’s stop this thread right here. I think this post is probably the most thought out intelligent posts on the forums. +1. Agree wholeheartedly.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

You would satisfy your own desires if you got what you wanted, but where would that lead the GW2 community as a whole if everyone suddenly had something that was ultra rare?

I am not even trying to get a legendary, I am happy enough with my black lion skins and fractal weapons that I got from evil, capricious RNG. But I take serious issue with your mindset.

It makes no difference to me if everyone has ultra rare skins, I can still fight in WvW, do dungeons, the periodic Living Story stuff, whatever. Why should I care about your skins? I’m sure many people share my opinion.

Would it not be interesting to see what everyone would make their characters look like without skin unlock restrictions? Then you can see their true aesthetic choices.

Everyone would be happier, except the people who must rely on the relative deprivation or inferior rank of others for self-validation.

If someone enjoys playing the game for its own sake, then removing the legendary grind will only make them happier. They can go and do dungeons and events and whatever with their friends, while enjoying their fancy skins. They’ll get new goals periodically anyway, like new backpieces or weapon sets.

If the legendary grind is the main or only thing that compels someone to play the game, then I argue they’ll be happier if you just let them get it over with and move onto something else.

You say that people are “entitled”; I could say that you are being vain and masochistic.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

But you need to take a step back, and look at the situation from a perspective that’s beyond just yourself.

Okay, let’s step back even further, and look beyond the game. Let’s make legendaries easy to get. If even a small number of people stop grinding for legendaries, and go do something more productive, is that not beneficial for society?

Is it socially beneficial to have games with psychologically addicting and frustrating grinds that eat up a large amount of time? Is that good for people’s mental health? If you look broadly enough, it becomes quite hard to say whether something is good or bad. You like to ride the values and morality horse, go ride it all the way to town.

You keep trying to make some moral argument about entitlement by equating the virtual economy with real economies. In the real world, we must deal with the harsh scarcity of resources. This simply doesn’t apply to virtual items with potentially infinite supply.

If scarcity were not a constraint in the real world (e.g. free energy, magic duplication devices, and robot servants), I see no compelling argument for making goods/services artificially scarce.

Since this a game, fun and enjoyment are what matters. Scarcity is introduced to add a fun and interesting challenge, give you some context. Find the point where the effort of getting a legendary is just right. Too easy, and it’s not fun (boring). Too hard, and it’s not fun either (anger and frustration). It is certainly valid to argue that it is too hard to acquire a precursor right now. You could set a price ceiling on precursors by having some NPC sell them for X gold, for example.

You make your arguments so you can tell yourself how gritty and hardworking you are, compared to all the lazy and entitled people. Others just want their skins. What makes one arbitrary value of item supply morally superior to others?

Right now, in our current state, Casual gamers are liken to the Proletariat, while TP players are much like Bourgeoisie. Arguments between these classes are lop sided, since rich players are few, and the Casual or non-rich are the majority. But just because the majority would demand a certain thing from the government to make them happy, the government currently knows better than to give into the demands.

So what you’re saying is we need to storm the Bastille and put some heads on pikes? I hardly think that’s the most constructive resolution to this.

But to borrow your example, the proletariat rebelled because they were starving, and that was because there didn’t exist enough food for everyone. If the government could produce infinite food at will, and merely chose not to, then that would have been fantastically irresponsible of them, even unconscionable.

Now obviously players don’t need Pres like people need food, but still, they want them, and if ANet could almost effortlessly provide them, which they can, then why shouldn’t they? Why not make people happy if you can?

Human nature is to want. There is no problem with wanting to own a Dusk. There is no problem asking for a Dusk. But you need to take a step back, and look at the situation from a perspective that’s beyond just yourself. You would satisfy your own desires if you got what you wanted, but where would that lead the GW2 community as a whole if everyone suddenly had something that was ultra rare?

Everything would be better for most players, maybe slightly worse for a few that have so far been doing better than the rest. Net win, I’d say.

If you want a Precursor just so you can make a Legendary, you have cheap options to pick from on the TP.

Which is a strawman that applies to almost no players ever.

If you want Dusk because Twilight is cool looking, or is a status symbol since it’s pretty, or whatever, that’s your choice.

It’s actually not a choice, to be technical. It’s a desire. You don’t choose your desires, you only choose how you react to them.

Having made that choice, you join the thousands of others with the same desire, competing for the same item on the TP. If someone is willing to spend more Gold than you can afford to spend, then your options become limited. And because you made that choice, you agree to live with the consequences.

Again, you are describing the current situation. Everyone understands the current situation, and I don’t understand why you believe there is a point to repeating it constantly. We;re not asking for the current situation to be explained to us, we’re asking for it to be changed into a new situation with different rules to it and different outcomes.

I would have thought this common sense by now.

No. You just don’t agree with them and are trying to shrug them off as nothing as you cannot argue against them.

No, I meant what I said and said what I meant, if you want your points to back your position then you’ll need to do better.

I posted a pic of Rodgort’s in my OP, and made mention about it’s price as well. The main thing here is that people complained that Precursors were too expensive or hard to get. I disproved that by showing people that there are Precursors that are affordable.

That’s a semantic argument though, it really helps nothing. When people say “precursors are too expensive,” what they almost exclusively mean is some variation on “the specific precursor I want is too expensive,” or “the several precursors for legendaries I would ever care to wield are too expensive,” or even “precursors on average are too expensive,” all of which would be true for people to whom 500g+ is “too expensive.” These are all reasonable claims to make, and not at all affected by the price of the unwanted precursors.

Perhaps these complainants could have better phrased what the point they were making, but their intent should be obvious from the context, and it helps nobody to ignore that.

I think the truth is GW2 is just like any other Korean cashshop mmorpg. The payment model dictate how the game is designed. The real reason legendary is so expensive so a certain fraction of players will always be out of money and they’ll be pushed to buy gems.

I would not mind if that market shifted from Pres to completed Legendaries. If people want to turn gems to gold and buy a Sunrise off the TP, then fair enough, let that be the “big money” purchase. But if a player wants to make one himself, and get all the other components necessary, a 1000g+ precursor should not be the stumbling block in that plan.

I installed a private server of another mmo a few years ago, where you could tamper with the settings make yourself a GM and instantly give yourself anything in the game. It was fun for about 40 minutes but when everybody had the same stuff it took any kind of differentiation between what was special and what wasn’t. Removed the server shortly after.

I would probably agree make everything as accessible as each other previous to that experience but IMO “ultra rare” adds enough staying power to a game for it to be a valuable feature of gw2, RNG or otherwise.

well duh we all kno the lamest legendaries have cheap pre, but honestly do we really want cheap pre cursors? legendaries r already too easy to get and with anet promising “best in slot for life” this could really ruin the game if they are easier to get, personally i think they should become more expensive

Wow…you are really obsessed with the word entitlement, penguin. You even capitalise it…

You also seem to think the word has an innate negative meaning, which is false.

Ohoni.6057:

No. You just don’t agree with them and are trying to shrug them off as nothing as you cannot argue against them.

No, I meant what I said and said what I meant, if you want your points to back your position then you’ll need to do better.

So arguments about what the affects that could happen if precursors were made easier and/or cheaper to get are automatically invalid because they disagree with what you believe? That’s essentially what you’re saying while making very little effort to actually back up your claims.

I installed a private server of another mmo a few years ago, where you could tamper with the settings make yourself a GM and instantly give yourself anything in the game. It was fun for about 40 minutes but when everybody had the same stuff it took any kind of differentiation between what was special and what wasn’t. Removed the server shortly after.

Two points. First, some MMOs don’t have a lot of variety, everyone just goes for the “BiS gear” of the moment, so opening up every item to every player would just mean everyone walking around in full Ascended and nothing else. GW2 has a lot more variety to it, and I doubt most long term players at 80 are significantly held back by availability. Second, there is some value in the loot chase, and nobody is asking for free Legendaries, or even free Precursors, just for them to be made a bit more affordable (by increasing their drop rate into the world). They would still take effort to get, just a more reasonable effort than they currently do for most players.

So arguments about what the affects that could happen if precursors were made easier and/or cheaper to get are automatically invalid because they disagree with what you believe?

No, but all the potential negative impacts that have been pointed out so far could easily be accounted for, such as temporarily increasing T6 drop rates to combat T6 inflation. So far you haven’t introduced any potential negatives to increased Precursor availability that could not be accounted for.

Ohoni.6057:

So arguments about what the affects that could happen if precursors were made easier and/or cheaper to get are automatically invalid because they disagree with what you believe?

No, but all the potential negative impacts that have been pointed out so far could easily be accounted for, such as temporarily increasing T6 drop rates to combat T6 inflation. So far you haven’t introduced any potential negatives to increased Precursor availability that could not be accounted for.

No. You’re wrong there.

Let’s say the total cost of a legendary is roughly 2,800 gold. This is split between 1,300 for the precursor and 1,500 for everything else.

Suppose that the price of the precursor is influenced in such a way to cause it to drop 50%. Either by increasing the drop rate or easier to get by crafting. Prices for all of the other components for the legendaries would go up. Let’s say they go up just enough to make up the drop in the precursor prices. The precursor is now 650 gold and crafting materials are 2,150 gold. It still costs 2,800 gold.

You just said that the drop rate of the other materials can be adjusted so that they are not affected or at least not so much. Let’s say that the drop rates are made so that the material prices only go up half the how much the precursor drop (325). The precursor is 650 gold and materials are now 1,825 gold. This bring it to a total of 2,475 gold to craft a legendary.

Oh wait, it’s now cheaper to craft a legendary as the overall cost has shifted down. Now more people are enticed to get their legendary weapons increasing demand and prices back up again. Let’s say that this new increase in demand causes prices to rise by 13%. It now costs ~2,800 gold again. Precursors are cheaper but you jacked up the prices of everything else that use those materials just so you could get your precursors easier. Way to go!

Unfortunately, it’s been stated that Anet does not want to ruin the precursor market. A 50% drop would certainly do that. A drop in the price would also make it less worth it to forge one so this reduces supply as well including the demand on a lot of materials that were used in that process.

Suppose that the price of the precursor is influenced in such a way to cause it to drop 50%. Either by increasing the drop rate or easier to get by crafting. Prices for all of the other components for the legendaries would go up. Let’s say they go up just enough to make up the drop in the precursor prices. The precursor is now 650 gold and crafting materials are 2,150 gold. It still costs 2,800 gold.

You just said that the drop rate of the other materials can be adjusted so that they are not affected or at least not so much. Let’s say that the drop rates are made so that the material prices only go up half the how much the precursor drop (325). The precursor is 650 gold and materials are now 1,825 gold. This bring it to a total of 2,475 gold to craft a legendary.

Let’s instead say that the drop rates are made so that (after a short period of instability) the mat rates do not change at all. That would leave the price at 2150. If that’s still seen as too much, they could even further increase the precursor drop rates, or increase the T6 mat drop rates (they are already too high, really, and could stand a correction).

Oh wait, it’s now cheaper to craft a legendary as the overall cost has shifted down. Now more people are enticed to get their legendary weapons increasing demand and prices back up again. Let’s say that this new increase in demand causes prices to rise by 13%. It now costs ~2,800 gold again. Precursors are cheaper but you jacked up the prices of everything else that use those materials just so you could get your precursors easier. Way to go!

And this is why you hire an economist, because they can predict this sort of trend as well as you can, and plan for it. As I said, the likely solution would be to institute (and announce) two planned changes to T6 mats, both a permanent increase in drop rates through traditional means, and a temporary one through unusual methods (like having a LW event chain that people can farm for T6 mats but that will go away in a month or so). They would be designed so that without the Pre change the price of T6 mats would plummet, but that with the changes, the prices would quickly stabilize to around the existing levels.

They have enough experience rolling out similar changes to reasonably estimate the supply and demand results, and if they make a mistake, they can make corrections to their initial model, increasing or decreasing supply as necessary. It might temporarily rise above their projects or fall below them, but so long as they keep a hand on the wheel those peaks and valleys should only last a day or two, and fear not day-traders because you guys are the ones most likely to profit off of the fluctuations anyways.

If your argument is that it’s impossible for them to predict and account for these sorts of changes and so they should never make them, then how do you explain the “account unlocked dye” change?

Honestly though, I think the best way to increase Precursor availability would not be to just increase the drop rates through traditional methods, but rather through a process in which you are guaranteed to get the Precursor you wanted, but the result is account bound, meaning that the supply on the TP would not increase (though the demand would fall a bit), and it would be a difficult to repeat process, like crafting the legendaires themselves, so players could not just easily make dozens of pres, they would only be able to make one every month or two of effort, meaning just buying the pre off the TP might be easier from time to time.

Ohoni.6057:

Suppose that the price of the precursor is influenced in such a way to cause it to drop 50%. Either by increasing the drop rate or easier to get by crafting. Prices for all of the other components for the legendaries would go up. Let’s say they go up just enough to make up the drop in the precursor prices. The precursor is now 650 gold and crafting materials are 2,150 gold. It still costs 2,800 gold.

You just said that the drop rate of the other materials can be adjusted so that they are not affected or at least not so much. Let’s say that the drop rates are made so that the material prices only go up half the how much the precursor drop (325). The precursor is 650 gold and materials are now 1,825 gold. This bring it to a total of 2,475 gold to craft a legendary.

Let’s instead say that the drop rates are made so that (after a short period of instability) the mat rates do not change at all. That would leave the price at 2150. If that’s still seen as too much, they could even further increase the precursor drop rates, or increase the T6 mat drop rates (they are already too high, really, and could stand a correction).

You can’t. Current demand for a particular legendary dictates what the total price would be. If you lower the precursor cost, the price for materials will increase. You will not get both do decrease and remain at 2,150 unless you remove demand or greatly increase drop rates. Anet has already stated that they will not do this. I also do not feel it’s necessary just so that some people can get their precursors a little easier.

Ohoni.6057:

Oh wait, it’s now cheaper to craft a legendary as the overall cost has shifted down. Now more people are enticed to get their legendary weapons increasing demand and prices back up again. Let’s say that this new increase in demand causes prices to rise by 13%. It now costs ~2,800 gold again. Precursors are cheaper but you jacked up the prices of everything else that use those materials just so you could get your precursors easier. Way to go!

And this is why you hire an economist, because they can predict this sort of trend as well as you can, and plan for it. As I said, the likely solution would be to institute (and announce) two planned changes to T6 mats, both a permanent increase in drop rates through traditional means, and a temporary one through unusual methods (like having a LW event chain that people can farm for T6 mats but that will go away in a month or so). They would be designed so that without the Pre change the price of T6 mats would plummet, but that with the changes, the prices would quickly stabilize to around the existing levels.

They have enough experience rolling out similar changes to reasonably estimate the supply and demand results, and if they make a mistake, they can make corrections to their initial model, increasing or decreasing supply as necessary. It might temporarily rise above their projects or fall below them, but so long as they keep a hand on the wheel those peaks and valleys should only last a day or two, and fear not day-traders because you guys are the ones most likely to profit off of the fluctuations anyways

They won’t disrupt the market for precursors so they will not do anything that will drastically change the price. You’re stating that this should be done, despite that they stated they would not do it, and you’re not really balancing anything by having a temporary influx of supply.

Ohoni.6057:

If your argument is that it’s impossible for them to predict and account for these sorts of changes and so they should never make them, then how do you explain the “account unlocked dye” change?

I don’t know what the point of this is. I never stated that it was impossible for the devs to anticipate changes so you brought this up on your own for whatever reason. In fact, I never brought it up. Please stay on topic and don’t add made up arguments, say they came from me, and then try to argue against them.

Ohoni.6057:

Honestly though, I think the best way to increase Precursor availability would not be to just increase the drop rates through traditional methods, but rather through a process in which you are guaranteed to get the Precursor you wanted, but the result is account bound, meaning that the supply on the TP would not increase (though the demand would fall a bit), and it would be a difficult to repeat process, like crafting the legendaires themselves, so players could not just easily make dozens of pres, they would only be able to make one every month or two of effort, meaning just buying the pre off the TP might be easier from time to time.

Account bound or not doesn’t matter as it will still affect supply and demand.

Ayrilana.1396:

Ohoni.6057:

No. You just don’t agree with them and are trying to shrug them off as nothing as you cannot argue against them.

No, I meant what I said and said what I meant, if you want your points to back your position then you’ll need to do better.

So arguments about what the affects that could happen if precursors were made easier and/or cheaper to get are automatically invalid because they disagree with what you believe? That’s essentially what you’re saying while making very little effort to actually back up your claims.

legendary was much cheaper 1 year ago. That don’t mean the economy was completely broken 1 year ago.

I dont’ think people are saying making precursor much easier, making it slightly easier wont’ broke the economy.

laokoko.7403:

Ayrilana.1396:

Ohoni.6057:

No. You just don’t agree with them and are trying to shrug them off as nothing as you cannot argue against them.

No, I meant what I said and said what I meant, if you want your points to back your position then you’ll need to do better.

So arguments about what the affects that could happen if precursors were made easier and/or cheaper to get are automatically invalid because they disagree with what you believe? That’s essentially what you’re saying while making very little effort to actually back up your claims.

legendary was much cheaper 1 year ago. That don’t mean the economy was completely broken 1 year ago.

I dont’ think people are saying making precursor much easier, making it slightly easier wont’ broke the economy.

Demand wasn’t the same before. Notice the big spike in April?

Ayrilana.1396:

laokoko.7403:

Ayrilana.1396:

Ohoni.6057:

No. You just don’t agree with them and are trying to shrug them off as nothing as you cannot argue against them.

No, I meant what I said and said what I meant, if you want your points to back your position then you’ll need to do better.

So arguments about what the affects that could happen if precursors were made easier and/or cheaper to get are automatically invalid because they disagree with what you believe? That’s essentially what you’re saying while making very little effort to actually back up your claims.

legendary was much cheaper 1 year ago. That don’t mean the economy was completely broken 1 year ago.

I dont’ think people are saying making precursor much easier, making it slightly easier wont’ broke the economy.

Demand wasn’t the same before. Notice the big spike in April?

Right, if demand isn’t the same before, how will raising the supply a bit broke the economy.

Slightly increasing mystic forge rate, or tier 6 materials.

They increased the supply of crystaline dust or lodestone through different methods before, they didn’t broke the economy did it?

laokoko.7403:

Ayrilana.1396:

laokoko.7403:

Ayrilana.1396:

Ohoni.6057:

No. You just don’t agree with them and are trying to shrug them off as nothing as you cannot argue against them.

No, I meant what I said and said what I meant, if you want your points to back your position then you’ll need to do better.

So arguments about what the affects that could happen if precursors were made easier and/or cheaper to get are automatically invalid because they disagree with what you believe? That’s essentially what you’re saying while making very little effort to actually back up your claims.

legendary was much cheaper 1 year ago. That don’t mean the economy was completely broken 1 year ago.

I dont’ think people are saying making precursor much easier, making it slightly easier wont’ broke the economy.

Demand wasn’t the same before. Notice the big spike in April?

Right, if demand isn’t the same before, how will raising the supply a bit broke the economy.

Slightly increasing mystic forge rate, or tier 6 materials.

They increased the supply of crystaline dust or lodestone through different methods before, they didn’t broke the economy did it?

It all depends on how much. However, what people are calling for is quite a bit.

Ayrilana.1396:

laokoko.7403:

Ayrilana.1396:

laokoko.7403:

Ayrilana.1396:

Ohoni.6057:

No. You just don’t agree with them and are trying to shrug them off as nothing as you cannot argue against them.

No, I meant what I said and said what I meant, if you want your points to back your position then you’ll need to do better.

So arguments about what the affects that could happen if precursors were made easier and/or cheaper to get are automatically invalid because they disagree with what you believe? That’s essentially what you’re saying while making very little effort to actually back up your claims.

legendary was much cheaper 1 year ago. That don’t mean the economy was completely broken 1 year ago.

I dont’ think people are saying making precursor much easier, making it slightly easier wont’ broke the economy.

Demand wasn’t the same before. Notice the big spike in April?

Right, if demand isn’t the same before, how will raising the supply a bit broke the economy.

Slightly increasing mystic forge rate, or tier 6 materials.

They increased the supply of crystaline dust or lodestone through different methods before, they didn’t broke the economy did it?

It all depends on how much. However, what people are calling for is quite a bit.

I think you are just coming up with righteous reason calling what Anet doing is right. Which Anet really don’t do anything because they want to push people to buy gems.

You can’t. Current demand for a particular legendary dictates what the total price would be. If you lower the precursor cost, the price for materials will increase. You will not get both do decrease and remain at 2,150 unless you remove demand or greatly increase drop rates. Anet has already stated that they will not do this.

You miss my point. If you lower the precursor cost, price for T6 mats will increase. So you increase the supply of T6 mats too, which will cause their price to decrease. Using data from previous similar events, it shouldn’t be hard for an economist to calculate roughly what supply increase would be necessary to offset the demand increase completely.

I also do not feel it’s necessary just so that some people can get their precursors a little easier.

I’m aware that you don’t. Others disagree. If Anet never agrees with us rather than with you, then no changes will be made and any discussion about it is moot, but if they do not feel that precursors should be made more available then why even bother talking about crafting them?

They won’t disrupt the market for precursors so they will not do anything that will drastically change the price. You’re stating that this should be done, despite that they stated they would not do it, and you’re not really balancing anything by having a temporary influx of supply.

When have they said that they would never disrupt the Precursor market? And as I said, there would be both a temporary and a permanent increase in T6 supply, intended to head off the short term demand increase, and then maintain a steady demand increase. Basically, if the demand would currently be 1000 per week, then an increase in Pres might result in a rise to 4000 per week for the first few weeks, as people rush to complete the Legendaries they’ve wanted, but would likely fall off to more like 2000 in subsequent weeks (ANet would have data to more accurately predict the curve, of course). So if that’s the curve, then they would need to permanently increase the supply by around 1000 per week, and also temporarily increase supply (as explained above) by 2000 per week. There would be peaks and valleys, but the prices would fairly quickly stabilize once the markets understood this was happening, as they have done during similar past adjustments.

Account bound or not doesn’t matter as it will still affect supply and demand.

Yes, I said exactly that, but it does effect it differently at least than if they were not account bound, since people would not be making them just for resell. Basically, demand for the ones on the market would go down a bit, but the supply of the ones on the market would not rise. It would have a price impact, but not nearly as much as if they were not bound.

Demand wasn’t the same before. Notice the big spike in April?

Essential demand was the same. It wasn’t like people suddenly realized they wanted a Legendary in April. But practical demand did increase, we had more people who suddenly viewed it as a plausible goal.

I just think it’s so cool how he capitalizes “Entitled” every time he writes it.

I bet this guy is a real hit at parties.

(Edited out all the good jokes because I’m sure I’d get banned for them)

People keep saying increase Precursor drop rates for the stuff everyone wants…. because happiness. Let’s replace the item in question, Dusk, with something else that’s rare.

• Anet should increase the drop rates of Giant Eyes because we want more of them.
• Anet should increase the drop rates of Charged Lodestones because we want more of them.
• Anet should increase the drop rate of Black Lion Claim Tickets because we want more of them.

Are you can see, the narrative is the same. People want more of something, because they are hard to get and highly desirable. That means everything is working as intended in the greater scheme of things.

As for Rage or Venom, these items have the same drop rates of Dusk, but aren’t as expensive. This is because there’s less demand for these items. This is also an opportunity for a player to be able to start their Legendary crafting 1,500 to 2,000 Gold cheaper.

Last point on this, to increase the supply of Precursors is a self defeating problem. People want them because they make epic looking Legendaries, and aren’t so common that everyone is wielding one. The more people walking around with a Twilight, the less desirable it becomes. Then the complaint moves to “where are the new greatsword Legendaries?”

We seem to have gotten far afield from the original post, which stated that the issue isn’t that precursors are expensive, it’s that there’s a high demand for only a few specific ones. I haven’t seen anyone disagree with that.

I also haven’t see anyone disagree with the statement that the drop rate supply of the coveted precursors is probably the same as for the undesirable ones. (The Mystic Forge supply might not be, since people tend to try for specific ones.)

So the question is: should ANet be responsible for artificially increasing the supply of high-demand items? Or is it reasonable to let the Free Market set the price? Any economist will tell you that markets are always more efficient about allocating resources than any government or business consortium. But “efficient” isn’t necessarily the same as “fair” or “fun.”

For some reason, acquiring a legendary has become important enough to some people that it’s interfering with their ability to enjoy the game as whole. I happen to think that’s a shame, regardless of whether that’s from some sense of Entitlement™ or because it feels so random when someone gets a pre or for some other reason.

I also think it’s probably not something that ANet can resolve to everyone’s satisfaction. Having total control over drop rates and the economy doesn’t mean they are omniscient enough to deliver to each according to their needs and demand from each according to their abilities. It doesn’t mean they know how to set the perfect drop rates so that everyone who Deserves™ a legendary is able to earn one, without spending too much (or too little) effort and without upsetting the rest of the economy.

I don’t really have a tl;dr except to say this sort of problem is so complicated to untangle (economics, sociology, psychology, ecology, & a few other logies) that I can’t think of any community (government, business, game environment) that’s gotten it right. It would be great if people recognize it’s not just one or two things and there aren’t any simple fixes.

People keep saying increase Precursor drop rates for the stuff everyone wants…. because happiness. Let’s replace the item in question, Dusk, with something else that’s rare.

Anet should increase the drop rates of Giant Eyes because we want more of them.
Anet should increase the drop rates of Charged Lodestones because we want more of them.
Anet should increase the drop rate of Black Lion Claim Tickets because we want more of them.

Are you can see, the narrative is the same. People want more of something, because they are hard to get and highly desirable. That means everything is working as intended in the greater scheme of things.

Agreed on all of that. See, you don’t always have to be a grouch.

As for Rage or Venom, these items have the same drop rates of Dusk, but aren’t as expensive. This is because there’s less demand for these items. This is also an opportunity for a player to be able to start their Legendary crafting 1,500 to 2,000 Gold cheaper.

Again, players don’t “start their legendary crafting.” They “craft the legendary they want.” Any player that has delusions of ever getting all the legendaries or somethignprobably already has enough to start with Dawn or Dusk anyways. The players that cannot casually afford Dusk are not thinking “I want to get any legendary I can afford,” they are saying “I can’t afford it, but I would really like X legendary.” Any other legendary is of no more value to them than getting random junk exotics.

What is so very difficult about this for you to understand?

Last point on this, to increase the supply of Precursors is a self defeating problem. People want them because they make epic looking Legendaries, and aren’t so common that everyone is wielding one.

People want Legendaries because they have cool effects, not because other people don’t have them. What sort of jerks only want things because other people don’t? It doesn’t matter in the least whether everyone has a Sunrise or not, I just want one on my character.

So the question is: should ANet be responsible for artificially increasing the supply of high-demand items? Or is it reasonable to let the Free Market set the price? Any economist will tell you that markets are always more efficient about allocating resources than any government or business consortium. But “efficient” isn’t necessarily the same as “fair” or “fun.”

The free market is efficient for “allocating” resources, but only ANet creates them.

I also think it’s probably not something that ANet can resolve to everyone’s satisfaction. Having total control over drop rates and the economy doesn’t mean they are omniscient enough to deliver to each according to their needs and demand from each according to their abilities.

They don’t have to get it right in one pass. They can always make a tweak, see how it plays out over a month or so, and then make another if it wasn’t enough. Even if they overshoot and provide too many (as some would argue they did during the initial South Sun event) they can always pull it back and the added supply will balance out within weeks.

As you can see, it’s a self inflicted problem. Everyone wants the same item (i.e. Dusk), that’s also very limited. Add in the fact that we have a free market where players can determine prices, and you have yourself a rare and expensive commodity. The problem is not Anet’s “lack of Precursors”. It’s the player’s lack of understanding that other Precursors exist, but the hyper focus on two or three force prices up.

The solution is not to increase drop rates just to satisfy these players. The solution is to educate people that there are other options for Legendaries, thus the purpose of this thread.

I think there has been one major thing omitted from the discussion in this thread.

Precursors for weapon types that players use in great abundance (re: Greatswords, Swords, Staves, etc.) being expensive is only a problem because there is no other guaranteed way to get them. People like making progress towards a fixed goal, and being able to do that also creates a sense of accomplishment as you move along towards that goal. A fluctuating market with prices that constantly change makes that much more frustrating to players. It gets even more frustrating when someone RNGs that one precursor you need (and then brags about it) and yet you never get that lucky. This is a very frustrating and angering experience for players, and it has nothing to do with entitlement, it has everything to do with feeling as if the game was designed in a way to make an item that is designed as the primary end-game cosmetic goal of the game unobtainable to the unlucky and unskilled at economics.

The comparison to Rodgort, the underwater weapons, and so forth would make more sense if they all fulfilled the same functional use. That’s not the case, however, as a Torch is a much less useful item on average than a Greatsword or a Sword or a Staff. So not only is the demand driven by wanting to make a legendary, it’s also driven by wanting to make a useful legendary.

You’re right about the solution not being about drop rates, though. The solution also isn’t about educating players, either. Rodgort is never a suitable alternative to Sunrise because they carry different weapon skills. You can’t use Rodgort as a Greatsword. The solution is to create a standardized system by which any player can create any precursor for roughly the same fixed price. Maybe that means Rage and Venom are cheaper to buy than craft (no one going for those legendaries will complain), but having a more fixed upper limit will keep players able to constantly make progress without feeling like they have to fight a rising tide in the case of Dusk, Dawn, Zap, and so forth. It doesn’t even matter if that “rough fixed upper limit” is upwards of 1000g. Having that process there will on its own ameliorate almost every random player’s complaints. Now they’re not necessarily fighting RNG at the mystic toilet or having to feel frustrated that they’re throwing gold at luckier players; now they can just make progress at their own pace and be happy with their daily progress.

That is why precursor crafting, if it even involves crafting at all, is such a lynchpin to the legendary ‘problem’.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

The problem is not Anet’s “lack of Precursors”. It’s the player’s lack of understanding that other Precursors exist, but the hyper focus on two or three force prices up.

The solution is not to increase drop rates just to satisfy these players. The solution is to educate people that there are other options for Legendaries, thus the purpose of this thread.

ZOMG guys! Dawn/Dusk are only expensive because people don’t know the other precursors exist! That is obviously why some of the others are so cheap!

Thank you for providing this invaluable public service.

Rising Dusk.2408:

~~~ snip ~~~

I, too, am waiting for the Precursor crafting. I’ve been prepared for months upon months, gathering items that I’m speculating will be necessary for each step. But even with the Precursor scavenger hunt, that only give an additional option, not pure alternative. I say this because I’m highly confident that the requirements will be so high, that it’ll be easier/cheaper just to buy one from the TP. I’ll go as far to say that there’ll be some players who’ll be unable to do the crafting, simply because it may require something like a hard JP, or even FotM 50. The usual complaints will pour into the forums about being “physically unable to do JPs” to being “force to do content he/she doesn’t like”.

Nathrax.3980:

ZOMG guys! Dawn/Dusk are only expensive because people don’t know the other precursors exist! That is obviously why some of the others are so cheap!

Thank you for providing this invaluable public service.

My pleasure mate!

Smooth Penguin.5294:

…

Wow…
You have a serious problem, but it boils down to the fact that you compare the real life with the game. You are doing huge mistakes by comparing those who want precursors but don’t have the gold with poor fellows and those who have the gold with the high society.
I think it should be clear by now that there is no “high society” in GW2. just some players who have decided that they want to flip the traiding post because it offers way more gold than anybody else.
That shouldn’t be in the game, it creates a disparity that doesn’t has to be so big, it ruins the fun. And that’s what this game all about: Fun. Grinding gold over and over while seeing players making much more gold in the same time isn’t fun. Grinding gold in general isn’t fun. The entire endgame resolves around grinding gold to get stuff.

And you are one of the few that are happy with the current system becasue you are not on the receiving end. That’s what you have to learn once for all: Just because you have fun with the game doesn’t mean others have too. That doesn’t mean that the whole community agrees with you. That doesn’t mean that the ones disagree with you are astray and have to be brought into line.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

…

Wow…
You have a serious problem, but it boils down to the fact that you compare the real life with the game. You are doing huge mistakes by comparing those who want precursors but don’t have the gold with poor fellows and those who have the gold with the high society.
I think it should be clear by now that there is no “high society” in GW2. just some players who have decided that they want to flip the traiding post because it offers way more gold than anybody else.
That shouldn’t be in the game, it creates a disparity that doesn’t has to be so big, it ruins the fun. And that’s what this game all about: Fun. Grinding gold over and over while seeing players making much more gold in the same time isn’t fun. Grinding gold in general isn’t fun. The entire endgame resolves around grinding gold to get stuff.

And you are one of the few that are happy with the current system becasue you are not on the receiving end. That’s what you have to learn once for all: Just becuase you have fun with the game doesn’t mean others have too. That doesn’t mean that the whole community agrees with you. That doesn’t mean that the ones disagree with you are astray and have to be brought into line.

From all your posts, it’s clear that you don’t understand the mechanics of a free market. We players decide on prices. We players decide if we pay those prices. You’ve been upset for many months now that certain players are able to take advantage of sales opportunities. If I sold my Dusk for 2,500 Gold, that means the buyer felt it was worth that much. If I sold my Venom for 1,000 Gold, same thing applies. There’s nothing broken about it.

Right now, there are cheap items on the TP that anyone can purchase. Precursors are rare. Their drops rates are equal, yet their individual demand is not. Highly demanded ones are more expensive, because way more people want them. Simple market principles.

As you can see, it’s a self inflicted problem. Everyone wants the same item (i.e. Dusk), that’s also very limited.

That’s not a self-inflicted problem though. ANet made Dusk the way they did, they created an item with the intention that it would be in high demand. You can’t then turn around and say that it’s the player’s fault that the item is in high demand. The Dusk price is what it is because of decisions ANet made, and perfectly predictable human nature, and it’s just farcical to try and remain willfully ignorant of that fact.

It’s the player’s lack of understanding that other Precursors exist, but the hyper focus on two or three force prices up.

Utter nonsense. The players are in no way whatsoever unaware of the other precurors, they are plenty aware of them, they just don’t WANT them. You can stack up dozens of Rages, but so long as they never add up to a Twilight they don’t get the job done. It’s like there is a flat head screw and someone is asking for a flat head screwdriver to remove it, and you just keep offering them dozens and dozens of philips head ones.

That is not the right tool for the job.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Simple market principles.

Simple market principles.

Simple, bad game design.
Well, for a very specific facet, anyway.

People have come up with a dozen different ways to make attaining precursors more palatable, but nothing’s changed so far. Is the Maudry II a test run for it, as whispers suggest? I hope so. There’s much more agency in that method, foxfire clusters included.

Reminds me that I need to head back to Dry Top~

Smooth Penguin.5294:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

…

Wow…
You have a serious problem, but it boils down to the fact that you compare the real life with the game. You are doing huge mistakes by comparing those who want precursors but don’t have the gold with poor fellows and those who have the gold with the high society.
I think it should be clear by now that there is no “high society” in GW2. just some players who have decided that they want to flip the traiding post because it offers way more gold than anybody else.
That shouldn’t be in the game, it creates a disparity that doesn’t has to be so big, it ruins the fun. And that’s what this game all about: Fun. Grinding gold over and over while seeing players making much more gold in the same time isn’t fun. Grinding gold in general isn’t fun. The entire endgame resolves around grinding gold to get stuff.

And you are one of the few that are happy with the current system becasue you are not on the receiving end. That’s what you have to learn once for all: Just becuase you have fun with the game doesn’t mean others have too. That doesn’t mean that the whole community agrees with you. That doesn’t mean that the ones disagree with you are astray and have to be brought into line.

From all your posts, it’s clear that you don’t understand the mechanics of a free market. We players decide on prices. We players decide if we pay those prices. You’ve been upset for many months now that certain players are able to take advantage of sales opportunities. If I sold my Dusk for 2,500 Gold, that means the buyer felt it was worth that much. If I sold my Venom for 1,000 Gold, same thing applies. There’s nothing broken about it.

Right now, there are cheap items on the TP that anyone can purchase. Precursors are rare. Their drops rates are equal, yet their individual demand is not. Highly demanded ones are more expensive, because way more people want them. Simple market principles.

You assume that the game needs a “Free Market” to be successful and you assume that the current implmentation of the TP serves all that purposes well.

I’m not sure what this free market is heading.

Anet double the chances of precursor from mystic forge still makes it a free market.

Anet interfere with the supply of various item before.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

You assume that the game needs a “Free Market” to be successful and you assume that the current implmentation of the TP serves all that purposes well.

It serves this game extremely well. The TP allows players to trade goods between each other securely, and acts as a Gold Sink to keep currency values stable.

And the TP gives you the ability to get a Precursor for a very reasonable price, rather than playing with Zommoros’ RNG.

It serves this game extremely well. The TP allows players to trade goods between each other securely, and acts as a Gold Sink to keep currency values stable.

And the TP gives you the ability to get a Precursor for a very reasonable price, rather than playing with Zommoros’ RNG.

But of course there’s no reasons that they could not introduce even better methods of obtaining one. I mean, if they believe that throwing money at the TP is a perfectly valid way of gaining a precursor, why not allow you to throw even less money at a vendor? It would even be a great money sink, which they seem to like. I mean currently, whenever a Dawn is sold on the TP, ANet only sinks 175g from that purchase. They could have a vendor offer them for 350g and sink twice as much, while saving the players almost 900g!

But that idea would make Precursors common. And most BLTC forum regulars would agree that removing the rarity is a very bad idea for the economy.

In fact, your idea would punish players who would be forced to buy a Rage or Venom for 3x the current prices.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Currently, they’re quite easy to get, and very affordable. I could go out and buy dozens of Precursors from the TP right now. So what’s going on here? People complain because they feel Entitled to getting a certain item they really want.

The solution isn’t to make Dusk or Zap easier to get, just to satisfy the Entitled masses. The real solution is to change mindsets of people. Lots of players want an item that’s very rare, so that item will be very valuable. The less these players desire said item, the more affordable it will become.

You must be swimming in gold if you can easily go out and buy dozens of precursors. Even at 90g per, that’s still not cheap for the average player.

Furthermore, you continue to ignore one important point (I’m honestly not sure if it’s unintentional at this point): People want stuff like Dusk or Zap, or even The Legend because they are popular items in general.

Staff guardians are incredibly popular for farming in PvE. Warriors (who often love to use Greatswords) are one of the most popular classes, as far as I know. Guess what, warriors also use Swords. So do Thieves (another popular class). Heck, Mesmers have viable builds utilizing Staff, Greatsword, and Sword in various ways.

These are popular weapon choices. You are not going to sell people on shifting their mindset and investing hours of mat gathering and gold farming to create an item whose primary distinguishing mechanics will be noticeable by frequently using the item (particle effects and stat-swapping), only to have it rarely used in actual combat.

Yes, there are people walking around feeling entitled, but that’s not what this is about. It’s about the painfully obvious truth that most people who want a precursor are simply not interested in more than half of them – at least, not when the effort required is so high.

What you’re confusing here (and I think someone already said this, but it bears repeating) is that a lot of people don’t want a legendary, they want one of the legendaries that fits their primary weapon set. I can tell you right now that the only way I would ever consider putting in the time to make a legendary, is if it was for a weapon that I knew I would be using nearly all the time on a toon that I play most of the time.

Otherwise, it is just not worth the time.

But that idea would make Precursors common. And most BLTC forum regulars would agree that removing the rarity is a very bad idea for the economy.

Nah.

And I’m not saying that vendoring them would be the best possible solution, I’m just pointing out that if ANet considers “buy it with gold” to be a valid way of getting it, then why is the amount of gold the important bit? It’s like that old joke, “we’ve already determined what you are, my dear, now we’re just negotiating on the price.”

In fact, your idea would punish players who would be forced to buy a Rage or Venom for 3x the current prices.

Not necessarily. The current TP prices give a pretty good idea of what the demand for various items are, those figures aren’t likely to change much, relatively speaking, so why not use those to determine the vendor price? Just take the current market values, and make the vendor price 30% of that. So Dawn would sell for 350g, Rage would sell for 21g, everyone wins.

Labjax.2465:

~~~ snip ~~~

Part of the point of this thread that many seem to have missed, is that the common complaint about “precursors being too expensive” is a fallacy. Precursors costing around 100 Gold are available. Just because no one wants them doesn’t change the fact that you can still get them far cheaper than Dusk.

I fully understand why certain Precursors cost so much. Why do you think so many traders are able to profit as much as they do? People are willing to pay the current prices. And I can almost guarantee that prices will still be high even after the Precursor crafting comes out.

Ohoni.6057:

So Dawn would sell for $350, Rage would sell for $21, everyone wins.

I think the loonies would be screaming “P2W!” as soon as Anet puts Precursors in the Gem Store. Can you imagine seeing “Dawn – 28,000 Gems or Dusk – 32,000 Gems”? The forums would be full of misdirected rage.

Part of the point of this thread that many seem to have missed, is that the common complaint about “precursors being too expensive” is a fallacy.

But as I’ve pointed out several times, and you willfully ignore each time, is that when people say “precursors are too expensive,” they are not being entirely accurate in expressing their real concern. They are not worried about the precursor market in the abstract, they are worried that the specific precursor(s) that they want IS too expensive, and the price of the low-end precursors is entirely irrelevant to that.

You are confusing a poorly phrased complaint for an invalid complaint. The sentiment is a valid one, if perhaps people are sometimes inarticulate in voicing it. Any rational observer should understand the point they are attempting to make, however, and react to that rather than engaging in semantic discussions about their word choice.

And I can almost guarantee that prices will still be high even after the Precursor crafting comes out.

Perhaps so, but there would at least be better alternatives to paying them.

I think the loonies would be screaming “P2W!” as soon as Anet puts Precursors in the Gem Store. Can you imagine seeing “Dawn – 28,000 Gems or Dusk – 32,000 Gems”? The forums would be full of misdirected rage.

Obviously that was not my intent, I’ve corrected my post to reflect that I intended those prices to be in gold, not USD. You are now free to take a crack at addressing the substance of my posts, or just continue to dance around them when they hit too close, as you usually do.

Labjax.2465:

You must be swimming in gold if you can easily go out and buy dozens of precursors. Even at 90g per, that’s still not cheap for the average player.

I’m sorry that some players can’t afford a 90g item, but they also can’t afford a 1500g item, either. If they’re unwilling to make the effort to [save to] buy a 90g item, then why should it be made easier to get a 1500g item?

Ohoni.6057:

Obviously that was not my intent, I’ve corrected my post to reflect that I intended those prices to be in gold, not USD. You are now free to take a crack at addressing the substance of my posts, or just continue to dance around them when they hit too close, as you usually do.

What’s there to dance around? The current prices of certain Precursors are working perfectly fine. High demands = high price. There’s no need for Anet to increase supply of certain items just because more players want them. This isn’t fair to those who spend the time and money MFing Longbows over Greatswords. Each Precursor has an equal drop rate. Asking that the most popular ones have their rates buffed borders on Entitlement.

I think I should start a thread called “Precursor prices are perfectly fine.”

I love this thread. Thanks. Same “I want it = make cheaper precursors” argument over and over.

What’s there to dance around? The current prices of certain Precursors are working perfectly fine.

Well, for on thing you keep bringing up your “people who can’t afford a Dusk can just by a Rage” premise, even though numerous people have pointed out that it does nothing to address the actual concerns of real players. You’re passing beyond the point where it can be considered innocent ignorance and passes into deliberate trolling.

There’s no need for Anet to increase supply of certain items just because more players want them.

Why not? This is a game, the goal is to make as many players happy as possible. If a lot of people are not getting the things they want, it IS in ANet’s best interest to fix that. Pretty much every change they make to this game, whether successful or not, is at least intended to result in happier players.

This isn’t fair to those who spend the time and money MFing Longbows over Greatswords. Each Precursor has an equal drop rate. Asking that the most popular ones have their rates buffed borders on Entitlement.

Lol, first, I never said that Dusk should have a higher RNG rate than Longbows. If hey were just upping the RNG rate then they should do it evenly, which would result in all the prices going down, including for Rage. The adjusted price system was for if they offered vendor versions, since the result is guaranteed and supply would be infinite, there’s no reason why they should not reflect relative demand.

I think I should start a thread called “Precursor prices are perfectly fine.”

Go ahead.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I think I should start a thread called “Precursor prices are perfectly fine.”

Sums up your entirely point.

If the price wasn’t fine, people wouldn’t buy it and the prices would either have to fall or stay up there because the sellers are just as stubborn.

As it stands, there are players willing to buy at the listed price (or higher) although there are many, many more players who aren’t willing to or can’t buy them. But that’s kind of natural for high-end goods. I mean, I’d like a Tesla, but I can’t afford one. Does that mean Tesla should lower the price of their cars? No. They’re actually priced fairly.

Actually, my household has a Tesla, a Volt, and we’ve setup a second power line that gets custom, cheap rates specifically for charging the cars, along with special plugs to charge the cars. I also don’t have a driver’s license. Go figure.

Ohoni.6057:

Why not? This is a game, the goal is to make as many players happy as possible.

I think your problem is that you put the cart before the horse. The GOAL of the game is to make money for Anet and it’s shareholders. This is a business. That’s not necessarily done by making as many players as happy as possible in a game with no sub. I honestly don’t think that happiness motivates players to spend money on gems. Making them feel they need something does.

The other thing that sinks that “make more players happy = gimme legendary” is the fact that the game already experiences some level of success. There is no way for you establish the need to do what you are suggesting, other than the general sense that it will make everything better to make it more successful. That’s a baseless claim.

It’s funny, because they haven’t done much to make people feel they need Legendaries other than the name alone.

And saying that they have unique skins is a fair point, but I’ll quibble with the fact that there are plenty of unique skins in this game, just as glowy although without the footprints and skill model changes.

Additionally, the stat swapping isn’t particularly necessary (how many people do this on a daily basis? weekly basis? monthly basis?) since it doesn’t incorporate sigils, making it hard to utilize.