Guild Wars 2

HP summary page 41 to 46 Part 3
Again if I’ve missed anything let me know.

The Journey
Discussion about the journey becomes quite a large focus for the next six pages continuing the discussion previously started by Colin Johanson.

• Syker continues the journey discussion with Event vendor’s and Event Boards also looking at the existing world event notifications and the impact in game of the success or failure of Tequatl’s event.
• Nike remembers existing systems to measure the journey and adds The Painting Vendor idea.
• Short but to the point Dreamless points out dailies and LW meta’s.
• Malchior believes a large problem with GW2 now is that it’s TOO rewarding. A very good read for all. As it highlights that there is a thing as too many rewards, and when that happen rewards no long feel rewarding.
• Swagger believes the currents systems are fine and that a large problem ties into profession designs and the reliance on gear for stats.
• Patrikan Habaton writes an interesting post looking at GW2 rewards and journey as a TP player. Note: Quite some heated words regarding FotM and PvP ranks at the end of the post.
• Immanuel looks at the journey through an example with Racial titles and Racial skills. Conski Deshan & Chrispy run with Immanuel’s idea.
  Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4, Part 5, Part 6.
  Rebekka looks at replacing cosmetic skins with cosmetic skills.
  *Deified thinks about the journey and unlocking. Part 1, Part 2. Quite an interesting read. Gaebriel looks to add race-specific factions to Deified’s journey.
• Conski Deshan journey involves rewarding skill and specific gameplay.
• Timmyf creates a journey with an amazing vision in Order Missions. Just below Shiren worries about gameplay tied to one specific order. The Lost Witch compares timmyf’s idea with Hacking the Inquest.
• Yoh looks at non combat activities as journey options. Part 1 , Part 2

HP summary page 41 to 46 Part 4
Again if I’ve missed anything let me know.

Unlocking & Skill Challenges
A lot of the ideas are looking at skill challenges, skill capturing, story or order event rewards and exploration of surroundings other then just unlocking in the UI by a single currency (eg. Skill points).

• Gaebriel wonders how skill point challenges can be expanded and more interacting.
• Xae Isareth’s concerned if open world content can be difficult and sophisticated enough for group content. This would include small and large groups. Romo adds some issues regarding these open world events using Tequatl’s event for examples. Naetell believes difficult and sophisticated group content can exist in the open world but needs improved communication & organisational abilities (Improving, Expanding existing partying & commander systems). Naetell also looks at a Three Tier system for open world interactions.
• Misterdevious looks at ‘A trainer inside a challenge inside a mini-dungeon behind an event wall inside a profession-specific area.’ with at Queen’s Gauntlet theme.
• Myur describes the journey for unlocking.
• Lheimroo has an interesting idea using the existing hero’s panel skills section adding a new world skills tab. Ghotistyx expands the idea tying in personal story and achievement-like requirements presenting it in story form.
• Videoboy takes skill acquisition and tiers challenge difficulty. Quite a good list listing varying activities for each tier.
• Campalishous looks at Skill trainers & Faction upon 100% world completion.
• Ludovicus tosses a glass of water looking for a hunt for skills feeling the current skill point system leave out any reasoning or story of the skills.
• Orpheal enjoys unlocking creating a list of many ways to unlock.
• Timmyf wonders about unlocking and external guide websites (eg. Dulfy) but gets behind a skill capturing mechanic. With these website helping to create the path of least resistance. Orpheal looks at making in game unlocking more rewarding and engaging so people don’t feel the need to use these websites.
• TheDaiBish reuses existing skill point NPC’s for unlocking but also adds skill skin capturing.
• PopeUraban’s Skill Capturing relinked from the vertical discussion. A system PopeUrban explains that ties together crafting, cash sinks, opportunity cost, and old style skill capture.
• StriderShinryu looks to the Orders for unlocking through tiered quests. Symph investigates the order unlocking and unties it from individual Orders.
• Shockwave breaks down Colin’s post looking at each individual part.

HP summary page 41 to 46 Part 5
Again if I’ve missed anything let me know.

• Sondergaard wonders about the missed opportunity of skill challenges that rewarded skills. Jaken agrees investigating many other ways, capture skills, learning from your surroundings & masters.Part 1, Part 2.
• Yoh looks at replace the existing skill unlocking system with Skill Tracker. Marcus Greythorne gives Yoh idea a +1 but looks to unlock all skills in WvW similar sPvP.
• Gulsave unlocks different types of new abilities in different ways.
  *Mikuchan looks to Everquest for inspiration to unlocking Part 1. Part 2. Some great ideas.
• Atlas looks at GW1 Ascension quest and use of a doppelganger.
• ElysianEternity presents a Scavenger-Quest and an unlocking method.
• Shiren adds Zaishen Dojos to the ever increasing ideas. Again another interesting concept.
• Maze & videoboy looks to bring back Zaishen Challenge quest.
• Melliarc discusses problems with introducing new skills to the existing skill point system. How it worked well in the beginning but later on after player have amassed many skill points unlocking skill has little meaning or progression.
• Signet of Forums looks to Scarlet’s invasions for unlocking zone rewards.
• Septemptus dreams about a system similar to WvW’s rank progression.
• The Great AI tries out in event skill acquisition trying skill unlocks to playstyles (offensive or defensive/support).

HP summary page 41 to 46 Part 6
Again if I’ve missed anything let me know.

Colin them jumps in again looking to refocus the journey discussion.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Thanks folks lots of really great ideas, concepts and discussion here!

I think the biggest thing I was trying to get at with my question is: what should the journey towards an alternative system of horizontal progression really be like?

Folks talked a lot about different ways you could say acquire skills other than the current system, but that’s really more a change to an existing skill acquisition system, as opposed to the journey of unlocking something like an advanced profession (or masteries) as some of you discussed.

Say for example, we decided to allow your profession to gain an additional mastery as Nike and Chuggs in particular discussed above. I think we have a lot of fun ideas in here for the journey unlock specific aspects of that mastery, but what if you first had to unlock the core “mastery” track, which then allowed you collect the smaller components? What kind of experience do you think would be compelling here as an over-all journey?

Some of the ideas I’ve really enjoyed so far from this thread include ->

• Additional story lines with your orders that allow you complete or unlock new masteries/abilities.

• Adding new content to the existing maps (or re-using existing moments) that serves the purpose of being a bit like skill challenges, content on demand that allows you to overcome challenges to allow you unlock various abilities/masteries.

A lot of the ideas boiled down into variations of one of these two options, and really both have a lot of cool concepts and ideas. Can folks think of anything else that’s a bit more outside the box for something bigger?

• Cesmode looks at the Global Dominance system as out of the box. Colin Johanson asks about overflow / underflow servers, server population and advanced horizontal progression for your character in regards to global dominance. Further discussion continues in posts below.
• DiogoSilva comes up with Open World Mini-Scenarios and expands it here getting inspiration from GW1 Hall of Heroes
• Colin asks and Tobias Trueflight answers. Looking to give meaning to the Orders Tobias looks to GW1 EOTN’s PvE reputation skills (Norn, Asura and Ebon Vanguard).

That’s all of it.

Ok just finished I’ll give the forum a rest from me posting. I’ll look at getting 47-52 up tomorrow and then finally up-to-date.

But before I go, I just would like to say Nike loving your idea of the painting vendor. To expanded it here are some ideas;

• Individual painting could require one or a combination of different individual currencies(eg. Gold, Karma, Skill points, WvW badges, Glory). So different game plays all have purchasable options. The vendor could break then up into different tabs. Also could be controversial but purchases could be per item or one time unlocks. Of note this could be expanded to other vendors (eg. Town clothes, Costume Brawl items, Mini Pets, Alliance / Guild / Housing items etc. . )
• A very cool aspect could be purchase in game could correspond to real life items and real life purchases to in game items. Purchasing in real life unlocks the corresponding in game item and unlocking in game purchasing a real life item.
  Concept art – How amazing would it be if buying a piece in game also purchases a real life copy or buying in real life purchases an in game copy. You would be to have to option for in game or real life only purchases. Adjust pricing as needed.
  Town Clothes – Similar with concept art imagine buying in game or real life a T-shirt and receiving a copy for the other.
  
  Now this is were it could get controversial and interesting. Again purchases could be per item or one time unlocks. Note to unlocking in game once unlocked you would still need the option for real life purchases. This for example you want two copies of a concept art or two T-shirts.

Edit: Corrected 46-52 to 47-52 as page 46 was covered in 41-46, thanks Devata.

Hey Beza, did you get my contribution about subclasses or newer skills/masteries/abilities being linked to the three orders? I didn’t see it specifically in your recaps and wonder if someone else captured it better so I can go read their take on it before moving on.

Tobias, check your page where you did that. I know I had a minor point about housing permissions, but it was “about a day ago” (searching my posts clicks to the end of this thread instead of to the specific post) and the summary is at “about 2 days ago” by page count.

Donari.5237:

Tobias, check your page where you did that. I know I had a minor point about housing permissions, but it was “about a day ago” (searching my posts clicks to the end of this thread instead of to the specific post) and the summary is at “about 2 days ago” by page count.

Digging it up now

Edit: Started it here

Worked a bit more on it here

And I think my last bit was here

ColinJohanson.2394:

Thanks folks lots of really great ideas, concepts and discussion here!

I think the biggest thing I was trying to get at with my question is: what should the journey towards an alternative system of horizontal progression really be like?

Folks talked a lot about different ways you could say acquire skills other than the current system, but that’s really more a change to an existing skill acquisition system, as opposed to the journey of unlocking something like an advanced profession (or masteries) as some of you discussed.

Say for example, we decided to allow your profession to gain an additional mastery as Nike and Chuggs in particular discussed above. I think we have a lot of fun ideas in here for the journey unlock specific aspects of that mastery, but what if you first had to unlock the core “mastery” track, which then allowed you collect the smaller components? What kind of experience do you think would be compelling here as an over-all journey?

Some of the ideas I’ve really enjoyed so far from this thread include ->

• Additional story lines with your orders that allow you complete or unlock new masteries/abilities.

• Adding new content to the existing maps (or re-using existing moments) that serves the purpose of being a bit like skill challenges, content on demand that allows you to overcome challenges to allow you unlock various abilities/masteries.

A lot of the ideas boiled down into variations of one of these two options, and really both have a lot of cool concepts and ideas. Can folks think of anything else that’s a bit more outside the box for something bigger?

My top pick for horizontal progression is based on heroic diversity, in particular increasing weapon skills and the ability to use more weapons for professions, so the idea I have is based on that concept rather than mastery or traits. I think that this idea combines the two ideas above with almost like a quest line, although it is almost completely linear with the examples that I have laid out.

Start of the journey
Mail is sent to our hero…something is happening…visit the Applied Development Lab in Rata Sum to learn more.

Rata Sum
In the Applied Development Lab, locate your order representative, he has news from the Crystal Desert. You will have to piece together information from the Liongard, Seraph, and the Orders to find out what is happening. You are sent to Metrica Province to begin searching for clues.

Metrica Province
Go to Durotl Grounds and find an item amongst the Pots of Hylek Poison that will provide a clue. It is a strange artifact hidden in one of the pots. It seems to be human in origin, but old. How would it have been hidden amongst the Hylek? Maybe the Lionguard know more. Head to Arterium Haven to learn more.

At Arterium Haven, Lionguard Katlyth knows only that there have been an increase in attacks on trade routes. If the artifact was hidden amongst the Hylek, visit those in Michoan Marsh to find out if they have knowledge of it.

At Michoan Marsh at the Michotl Grounds, Chief Xoctic looks at the artifact and turns violent. Subdue the Chief to get answers from him. Once subdued, he reveals that it may have to do with the whispers of moving away to somewhere without krait, where there once was a desert, but is now lush and verdant. The artifact is human in origin and was sought as proof of this lands existence. The value of the artifact is priceless and trade caravans are being ambushed to find more. Caledon Haven is a near a hub of trade and houses Lionguard.

Caledon Forest
In Caledon Haven, speak with Captain Ragna. She knows about the attacks on traders and has provided armed escorts when possible. Hylek, krait, bandits, pirates, everyone seems to be disrupting trade. She suggest speaking with one of the Durmond priory investigating the ruins.

As you take out the artifact, the haven is overrun with nightmare court. A shiny sword is laying on the ground, picking it up, you deal heavy damage to the invaders. You learn new sword skills. Impressed with your abilities, Captain Ragna awards you with an account bound nightmare court sword skin.

In the aftermath of the invasion, the Durmond priory workers are injured. Escort a caravan to the Grove with the wounded. On the way, the Durmond priory worked tells a tale of the Crystal Sea.

The Grove
In Scholar’s Terrace, you meet with Mentor Gealach. He tells the tale of the forgotten. This artifact seems to hold traces of ascended materials and may be related to that race. The Tengu have much knowledge of the elder dragons now lost, maybe they can provide help with the artifact.

continued

continued

Caledon Forest
Travel to the Dominion of the Winds where the Tengu can be addressed. Approach Swift Arrow with the artifact and see if he will help provide information. Swift Arrow only suggests to speak to Lionguard Mikk at Kraitbane Haven.

Lionguard Mikk has heard already about the artifact. It isn’t safe to travel with it and wants to keep it safe with him. A feeling of unease washes over you: if you are Priory: make a great show of having the artifact and asking for more information on it so Mikk can’t steal it, Vigil: fight and then interrogate MIkk, or Whispers: offer the artifact to Mikk and then follow him to see what he does with it, then steal it back. Mikk reveals that the artifact is rumored to have belonged to a Zephyrite. He also heard a rumor that the Skritt King in Brisban Wildlands has another piece of the artifact.

Brisban Wildlands
Journey to Skrittsburgh and speak with the King. He won’t hand over the piece. He will offer a trade. Find something better and he would consider releasing it. He has heard of many things being found in ruins outside the city to the west.

Go to Koga Ruins where you encounter Arcanist Kera. Her mother knew much about the Zephyrites and shares what little information she can remember of them. Offering her the artifact for study, she reveals that it may be a piece of something that may have belonged to them; however, her knowledge is limited. She can help with providing something of interest to the Skritt King though.

Before leaving to return to the Skritt King, bandits attack. Fending them off, you take a dropped pistol and learn new skills. Thankful for the help, Scholar Eleanor Taelyr gives you an account bound bandit pistol skin. Seraph Soldier Michella also offers new direction: contact Seraph Soldier Goran in The Wendon Steps. He knows about bandits and the trade routes through the area.

After trading the Skritt King for the artifact he has, you now have two pieces which align roughly together, creating a stone tablet with a carving in it. Once arriving in Wendon Steps, Seraph Soldier Goran asks for you to send help from Fort Salma in Kessex Hills. The trade routes are nearly halted with all the trouble being caused by bandits in the area.

Kessex Hills
At Fort Salma in Kessex Hills, Lieutenant Elward agrees to send help to Goran. In the meantime, he has little information other than needing help as well at Overlake Haven. He’ll gather as much information as he can and send a messenger with details there.

You go to Overlake Haven and meet with Sheriff Bronden. Sheriff Bronden reveals that a cache of weapons were lost during the cave in of the Giant’s Passage. Luckily, no one was hurt, but he can’t leave those weapons for anyone to find. Find the missing weapons scattered through the cave based on your order: Vigil frontal attack and clearing of all the ettins reveals them scattered throughout the cave; Durmond Priory: scout the area and find broken pieces of the weapons crate; Whispers: disguise yourself as an ettin and walk in to the cave discovering the ettins carrying the missing weapons. How will you transport all the weapons back to Sherif Bronden? In the course of retrieving the weapons, fight the ettins with one of the maces to learn how to use the mace permanently. In appreciation of your efforts in returning the weapons, Sherif Bronden gifts you an account-bound ettin club mace skin. As you accept your gift from the Sherif, a messenger arrives from Lieutenant Elward: the Lionguard need help at Black Haven.

At Black Haven, you find the Lionguard has captured a bandit and are willing to let you interrogate him. Choose an approach: ferocity, charisma, or dignity. The bandit reveals little except that they are searching for a broken tablet. It is rumored to contain draconic energy once all the pieces are found and pieced together.

Another messenger arrives from Lieutenant Elward. The tablet may be even more dangerous than it was thought. It may be a key to awakening Dhuum. It would be dangerous to have all the pieces come together. A Scholar of the Durmond priory is nearby in Queensdale, north of Swamplost Haven. She may be able to determine the validity of this latest claim.

Queensdale
North of Swamplost Haven, you find Scholar Taryn. She reviews the two pieces, keeping them separated and then joining the two pieces. Suddenly portals open nearby and grow larger. Taking the two pieces and putting them away, you defend the scholars from the creatures emerging from the portals. Once the portals are closed, Scholar Taryn wants to see the artifacts again, to test if they truly caused the portals to open. As the pieces come together, portals start to be visible, pulling them apart, the portals disperse. She covers the history of the underworld and how it remains linked to Godslost Swamp. You must go to Divinity’s Reach and let the Queen know of the threat.

continued

continued

Divinity’s Reach
Go to Queen Jennah at the Royal Palace. Countess Anise and Logan Thackeray attend your report as well. Logan believes the two pieces should be destroyed to make sure they never come together again. Countess Anise believes this will not be possible due to the inherent purpose of the artifact. Queen Jennah believes the solution is to return the pieces to the Zephyrites.

The problem is this: all the pieces need to be found, yet kept separate from each other until the return. A plan is formed: Leave a piece with the Queen and disperse others to the separate Order headquarters to keep watch over them. When the Zephyrites return, the pieces can be taken to the Zephyr Sanctum secretly and separately.

Your mission is to find the remaining pieces and ensure their delivery to the different headquarters. You are given a sketch of the two pieces together and one piece to take to the Vigil Keep in Gendarran Fields. As you leave the Queen’s Room, a seraph guard approaches with a message from Scholar Taryn. The Shire of Beetletun may have another piece of the artifact.

Queensdale
At the Shire of Beetletun you talk to villagers and search for the missing artifact. Some have noticed strange things happening around the mansion of Minister Caudecus. As you search, you find nothing; however, you learn from Foreman Saaln that there were two men looking for work, but after two days left without a word. They came with a reference from Innkeeper Jannick in Nebo Terrace though.

Gendarran Fields
Speaking to the Innkeeper Jannick reveals the reference was a forgery, although he remembers two men the Seraph had to escort out of town a few weeks back. Seemed to be too nosey for their own good. Speak with Captain Bradin Glenavon he may know what happened to them. Glenavon recalls the Seraph escorted them out of the village and watched them walk north, but didn’t know what happened after that. They may have been a part of the jackdaw pirates. They have been running assaults on traders.

Find the pirates in Gendarran Fields that are leading the assaults on trade caravans. Those daggers they throw out seem to be a nifty fighting method, pick up a dagger or two dropped by pirates during the fight and learn new skills. Convince the leader to stop the trade assaults based on your faction. Be sure to choose the right method or you may fail and have to find another way. (Failure will result in traveling to Junction Haven and seeking help from the Lionguard to defeat the pirate leader completely). Once the pirate leader is either defeated or convinced to stop the assaults, you receive another piece of the artifact.

Head to Vigil Keep to give a piece to Warmaster Yosif. Having heard of your help with the pirates, you are given a pirate dagger account-bound skin and a message: the Seraph need your help in Harathi Interlands.

Hirathi Hinterlands
Seraph Soldier Reid has a mission for you to complete in the middle of the centaurs: find the underwater cavern with barracudas, an undercover whispers agent is missing and needs help out. Pick up a discarded torch from the centaurs, learning new skills, and fight your way to the agent. Revive her and make your way out of the cave.

The agent requests escort to Seraph’s Landing. At Seraph’s Landing, you speak with the agent and learn that the Vigil, Whispers, and Durmand Priory are working together to find out more about the Crystal Desert. She hands over an account-bound centaur torch skin in thanks for her rescue and a request to go to Wildspine Hills and report to Captain Seana Beach. Beach has information regarding the Lionguard that needs to be verified and then reported.

Gendarran Fields
Travel to Junction Haven to verify the reports that Beach has heard regarding the Lionguard. Talk to Sheriff Rollak Tornmuzzle about the trade routes and disruptions that have been happening. Find out from him the gossip around the reasons why. You discover that the Lionguard have been patrolling more than usual in an effort to prevent attacks, but it hasn’t helped. And there is a rumor that the Lionguard are causing some of the attacks, but it is only rumor and can’t be confirmed, although Lionguard Brena may have more specific information. She has received various reports recently. Brena confirms that there are two men dressed as Lionguards that have taken up attacking traders, but the reports have been from the Bloodtide Coast, not Gendarran Fields. She is certain that they aren’t really Lionguard though. The Captain of the Lionguard needs to be aware of the matter. She send you to Lion’s Arch with a message.

Lion’s Arch
Go to Captain Magnus Irondawn the Bloody-Handed at Fort Marriner in Lion’s Arch on the way to the Chantry of Secrets. Give Brena’s report to Magnus and report your own suspicions about the two men travelling together. You do not reveal the artifact pieces to him and continue south.

continued

continued

Bloodtide Coast
At the Chantry of Secrets, you make your way to Doern Velazquez. Provide him with the piece of artifact and explanation.

The journey will continue through these areas, learning more weapon skills, having outcomes with failure possible and choosing methods based on personality or order to accomplish the mission.

Sparkfly Fen,Straits of Devastation, Mount Maelstrom, Timberline Falls, Dredgehaunt Cliffs, Hoelbrak, Dredgehaunt Cliffs, Lornar’s Pass, Snowden Drifts, Wayfarer Foothills, Frostgorge Sound, Fireheart Rise, Iron Marches, Plains of Ashford, Diessa Plateau, Black Citadel, Plains of Ashford, Blazeridge Steppes, Fields of Ruin

The end of the journey
Crystal Desert
Queen Jennah opens the portal. The missing piece of the artifact must be found. Travel to the new land of the Crystal Desert and the LS story where you find the artifact and battle new enemies in an effort to help the orders recover control of the area. Find out new lore regarding Elona and what may come with the submission of the Crystal Desert.

brittitude.1983:

Crystal Desert
Queen Jennah opens the portal. The missing piece of the artifact must be found. Travel to the new land of the Crystal Desert and the LS story where you find the artifact and battle new enemies in an effort to help the orders recover control of the area. Find out new lore regarding Elona and what may come with the submission of the Crystal Desert.

Minor note, the Crystal Desert is not Elona and isn’t really close to it. There’s a lot of distance between the southernmost edge in the age of Prophecies and the northernmost edge of the Desolation in Elona. Someone worked out the math, and the result was something like . . .

. . . pretty fricking far

brittitude.1983:

The grand quest for the crystal desert

Interesting stuff, but perhaps a bit passive? It appears to be sort of an errant quest. In which you have to visit everything in the right order. Combat playing only a minor role.

While this could be great stuff for any lore lover, I can imagine it being a bit dull for players that are more interested in the challenges of combat. And perhaps even for the ‘explorers’ since we’re sort of being hand-held.

The idea could be tweaked to allow for more action though:

Perhaps an enemy would jump in and try to steal important parts of the puzzle. You would meet that enemy at pretty much every important step of the quest. Each time you try to stop him, sometimes you’ll win, sometimes you may fail. Near the end of the questline, we need those ingredients, and every ingredient lost must be found. You face the enemy once more, but this time you win, and find out that he has hidden what he has stolen in a number of caches all over the world. (One for each item he stole)

And perhaps for more exploration too:

In the soutshun update, we had a scanner to look for flowers. This felt a lot more like exploring than following my personal story stars. Maybe something like this can be used. Or perhaps there could be tracks left in the open world. Maybe a friend went ahead and marked the map with arrows on every crossing. The type of arrows you find when walking a nature trail, on trees and stones & such. Not part of the UI, but part of the landscape. Eventually you arrive at her location, where she lies defeated by your enemy. You help her back up, and together you end up at the end of the road.

As far as long – chase quests go for unlocking horizontal progression: I would LOVE to see environment based tracking in this game. Not of the type where you see a yellow name plate to interact with, but the type where you only see it if you are looking for it.

I want to link this idea: Region Ranks

Don’t mind the way it’s narrated, it’s part of a personal expansion theorycrafting so it may sound a bit out of place. The context is a new expansion opens up (Jormag), and this system is used to prevent abuses of rushing, as an alternative gating method to increasing the level cap. The level cap is still 80, but then you have these extra levels in each region that don’t affect your stats but give a sense of progression so you feel like you’re still leveling up after reaching 80.

(A region is something like Kryta or Ascalon, a group of zones)

Region Ranks are a new PvE progression system across both the new Far Shiverpeaks and classic regions, functioning similarly to the World vs World Ranks system. If you venture north to the most dangerous zones without experience, you will become weaker and have a harder time. To preserve your strength, you must first face Jormag’s champions across the first zones of the expansion. Level 80 characters will feel they progress even if they can’t level up any further, and new characters deciding to level up in the new regions will gain resistance to Jormag as they level up normally.

Each region has its own account bound Region Ranks. Each time you gain classic experience, you get an equal amount of Region Experience for the region of the zone you’re in. As you rank up, you get Region Ability Points, which can be spent on various new upgrades. These include passive bonuses of classic attributes like Magic Find, resistance against specific enemies and new utility skills. All the bonuses unlocked in all regions are available permanently no matter where you are. Unlike World vs World, each region has a rank cap, where you cease to gain Region Ability Points, and unlock all the upgrades.

The goal behind this new progression system is to reward world completion even further, preserving level 80 as the classic experience and item level cap, focusing on horizontal progression by adding new abilities and upgrades, instead of vertical progression by increasing level caps of the existing core systems.

I think this system is the way to go with future content, and a very effective way to add more and more layers of progression without changing the core leveling experience from 1 to 80 with the established trait system.

The gating part comes with the “dragon agony” system, where while facing specific dragon minions you’re weaker unless you build up resistance to them, which you get by leveling up across regions. The system is supposed to work as a light gate, that is, a new player taking the game for the first time and choosing to ignore the original content and level up in the new areas wouldn’t feel the gating at all. It’s not supposed to be a grind at all, you get it by playing normally. Only those that rush to the final zones get punished by being weaker.

Link to the section on the expansion theorycrafting: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/User:Lon-ami/First_expansion_theorycrafting:_Jormag,_Tengu_and_Far_Shiverpeaks#New_PvE_progression_system_-_Region_Ranks

The design for things such as Ascended and Legendary, AP and PvP Ranks have been based on the Manifesto that was released; you are ment to advance and acquire these things through normal gameplay, over time, rather than through hardcore grinding and session playing, which leads to burnout.

THE ASCENDED TIER
The Ascended tier is a divisive subject within the GW2 community, but in the long run I believe it was positive for the game as a whole to add this tier.

In part because it re-vitalised the game and encouraged the creation of community; world tours, mining runs, temple runs, all of these activities and then some started appearing and re-appearing with the addition of Ascended Weapons and then Armors. It gives players a long-term goal to work towards, whilst at the same time ensuring the community remains alive and active. It fulfilled the same function as the HoM did in GW1, to an extent.

In part because Ascended opens up for some interesting mechanics to be used in crafting and the progression towards Legendaries, more of which will be mentioned below.

In part because Ascended allows for an expansion and depth to be added to current gameplay systems, such as Fractals, which will be brought up below.

With this being said, I believe there should be other paths towards gaining the Ascended Gear, as this would encourage people to get involved in more gameplay systems, consume more content and be able to mix-and-match different methods to acquire their sets, choosing what they enjoy the most.

• Fractals of the Mists
  The Fractal System is a one with great potential and could be an excellent alternative path to gaining Ascended gear and materials. First of all, however, I believe some additions and modifications need to be made to the Fractals.

The brackets and their reward system could be something along the lines of the following, with the rewards of previous brackets being included in the next brackets, and with the chances of gaining those rewards, and the amount one receives, increasing with each level and bracket increase.

I also believe that boxes should be replaced with a choice of stats, so that one can choose directly whether to receive e.g. Ring with Berserker stats, rather than have the current double RNG of actually getting a box, and then hoping that box contains the desired stats.

• Level 1-10
  Ascended Materials
• Level 11-20
  Ascended Ring (Non-infused)
• Level 21-30
  Ascended Ring (Infused)
• Level 31-40
  Ascended Weapon (Non-infused)
• Level 41-50
  Ascended Weapon (Infused)
• Level 51-60
  Ascended Armor (Non-infused)
• Level 61-70
  Ascended Armor (Infused)

You might notice that Infusions have been added to weapons and armors, which is another mechanic that could be used to make Ascended more desirable, intertwine it more with the Fractals and further increase the progression within this tier.

Infusing these Ascended pieces would allow us to progress higher through the Fractal levels, give us a long-term goal to work towards in Infusing our sets and would solve the issue of insufficient AR as one progresses throughout the Fractals, ensuring that it might actually become an “endless” dungeon.

Account-wide Agony Resistance
Considering how Fractal Level is now account-wide, it’s logical for Agony Resistance to become account-wide aswell, to allow our characters to consume content at the current account level they’re at.

For example, Agony Infusions could be removed from gear and added to the character panel, so that infusing gear would add 5 Agony Resistance to the account.

The new +1 Agony Resistance Infusions that drop from Fractals could, once merged into a +5 minimum, then be used to add that much AR to the account.

It’s a quality-of-life measure that would encourage using alts, since one wouldn’t have to grind for so many +1 AR’s to be able to progress past 30 on alts, and would still retain the Infusion System, except adding it to the account, which would also encourage spec experimenting, since one wouldn’t have to switch gear setups and infuse all over again.

• Ascended Salvaging
  Allow us to salvage Ascended items in return for Ascended materials, with the added chance of Globs of Dark Matter, perhaps Globs of Ectoplasm and +1 Agony Resistance Infusions.

• Ascended Crafting
  Most crafting disciplines at the moment have the ability to craft Ascended Weapons and Armors. I suggest expanding this path even further, allowing Jewellers to craft Ascended backpieces and trinkets.

Eli Stormstrike.8637:

CONTINUED…

Account-wide Crafting
One measure that I’m surprised hasn’t been implemented is Account-wide Crafting disciplines. Since one character is able to max all crafting disciplines, and since the Achievement System is account-wide, there is truly no incentive for a player to go through the grind once more on a different character.

I suggest merging crafts across all characters to the highest one in each discpline currently on the account, and once unlocked at the highest level once it will be available to all characters on that account.

• ASCENDED PRECURSORS AND LEGENDARY GEAR
  I believe the opportunity exists to enshrine Ascended as milestone towards gaining a Legendary, rather than feeling as if one is wasting their time, spending resources and money to gain items that are on the same level as Legendaries, but sub-par in the sense that they lack stat-switching. I’ve seen much jaded talk about holding back on crafting Ascended in order to wait for the Legendary tier to be added to other slots.

Legendary Weapons are a great addition to the game, similar to how Ascended currently functions they encourage players to partake in activities across a broad spectrum, to enjoy the game to the fullest and work towards this long-term goal organically through normal gameplay.

The end goal should be to have Legendary Items available for all equipment slots currently in-game, and with the path to acquiring them, with perhaps the exception of Legendary Weapons because of the already-existing precursors, going straight through Ascended.

As was mentioned earlier, I proposed expanding the Infusion mechanism to incorporate Ascended weapons and armor, as this would allow us to progress further into Fractals, give the brackets more meaning and disperse the rewards across a broader range of levels, whilst also expanding the progression of the Ascended tier, another goal to work towards to infuse all of one’s gear.

This Infusion mechanism could then be used in the crafting of Precursors; the precursors for Legendary Weapons are already in-game as exotics, and changing this might be difficult at this stage, as I would propose using Ascended weapons as precursors instead.

However, for Legendary Armor and Trinkets, Ascended could be used as the precursors. Once a piece of Ascended armor has been infused, one is able to use it as a precursor component to crafting a corresponding Legendary piece; this will ensure Ascended is not perceived as a waste of time, won’t place it in competition to legendaries but will instead become an integral component to it, and will also connect these different kinds of progression to one another, so that those who have Ascended gear at the moment, and those who are working towards it, won’t feel as if their efforts were reset on a treadmill once other legendaries are gradually released.

One proposal given by Shriketalon.1937 was to craft Legendary Trinkets through the following method:

Uisng different orbs to craft exquisite jewels, these can then be combined in sets of 4 in order to create a “Chimeric Prism” and an “Iridescent Prism”. Combining these 2 with a “Chaos Diamond”, from salvaging Ascended items, and Thermocatalytic Reagents would then yield an “Inscribed Secret”.

This “Inscribed Secret” is then combined together with an Augur’s Stone and 2 items made from recipes containing the yet-to-be-added Ascended materials, Xunlai Electrum Ingots and Crystalline Ingots, which would then yield a Legendary Trinket.

See attachment at bottom for detailed description
Image is curtesy of Shriketalon.1937 (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Character-Progression-Vertical/page/5#post3369475)

To conclude: One should be able to acquire Ascended items through a wide range of activities, ranging from Fractals and Crafting to general PvE. These Ascended items should then be expanded, allowing players to infuse them to gain Account-wide Agony Resistance. The Infused versions of these Ascended Weapons, Armors and Trinkets should then become the precursors for crafting their legendary counterparts, creating a chain of progression for players to go through until the end goal of full Legendary is achieved, through normal and organic gameplay.

Eli Stormstrike.8637:

CONTINUED…

ALLIANCES, GUILDS AND SOVEREIGNTY – GUILD VS. GUILD/ALLIANCE VS. ALLIANCE
GvG would be another method of expanding the importance of guilds within the community, and could be used as a PvP, WvW and PvE mechanism.

It could be composed in different formats;

• Structured PvP
  Two Guilds fight eachother in the Mists throughout a rotation of all current maps, with the end score determining the rewards. This would not have a lasting impact upon the world, and would essentially be a form of PvP without outside factors such as gear affecting the outcome.

• WvW
  Guilds can claim castles, keeps and other objects within WvW, I say we give guilds a greater role to play in WvW and the outcome of battles. Allow them to challenge eachother for control of different objects, either in the current maps, which might be difficult because of how zerg capturing makes this function redundant, and because of the impact it might have on the rest of the world and other guilds.

The Edge of the Mists, however, might be a good place to test GvG out, allow guilds to fight for control of different areas and components of the map to grant boosts to themselves and their respective servers.

• PvE
  Now, this is where it becomes more interesting. Those who have played EVE Online know that Alliances and Guilds are able to control different zones and areas within the game in order to gain bonuses, boosts, buffs and rewards, with uneasy truces and eternal combat, drama and a truly living world ensuring that player politics is a highly decisive factor in the game’s direction.

A similar system could be implemented in GW2 with GvG and Alliance vs. Alliance in PvE being a system where these groups fight eachother for control of different zones or areas in the game. For example, gaining control of Frostgorge Sound might grant a Guild passive boosts and incomes to the Guild Bank, which can be utilized for different purposes, all to ensure Guilds become a more essential part of the game.

Rival Guilds and Alliances can then challenge eachother for control of these zones. Alliances could, for example, control entire areas, such as Shiverpeak Mountains, Ring of Fire and Maguuma Jungle, whilst Guilds control individual zones within these areas, such as Fireheart Rise and Snowden Drifts.

This control would not affect the playerbase as a whole from interacting with the zone, this system is instead placed in a different sphere than general PvE; the average player will not notice major changes in his gameplay, other than, for example, an extra text bar under the map name in World Map saying “Thiz zone is currently controll by X, Y or Z from Alliance X, Y or Z”.

There are great details that need to be added to this system to make it work, but the benefits are that the world becomes more dynamic, Guilds become an integral part of the gameplay, rewards are increased for successful guilds, a competitive element is added to general PvE and player politics becomes a more active subject within the community.

To prevent stalemates after the initial rush for control, different systems could be put in place; for example, sitting on a single zone forever can be discouraged through passive debuffs that deplete the resources the Guild gains from control, and would require it to gain control of a new zone.

Guilds and Alliances can be given the option to maximize their benefits from control through the upgrades panel; e.g. constructing Mines, Lumber Mills and other items in the map to gain resources, which would be a requirement to gain any benefits at all, ensuring only active guilds are able to compete and control zones, and with overextending and prioritization becoming important factors, as, depending on the merits, influence and guild commendations the Guild and its members have and are able to acquire, one has to choose where to put one’s efforts.

Eli Stormstrike.8637:

CONTINUED…

FACTIONAL REPUTATION AND WARFARE – CULTURAL ARMOR AND WEAPONS
Factional Reputation would be a great method for allowing for greater customization, as it would unlock paths for different races to gain access to the benefits of the others.

For example, a Norn who maximized their reputation with the Humans would gain access to that faction’s racial/cultural armor and weaponry. This might require a re-design to ensure these different armors and weapons match all races, but it’s an added incentive for exploring the world.

This could, of course, also become an interesting mechanism in the Living World, in GvG (see above) and in player politics and the Alliance System. Different factions could commit warfare against one another for control of different zones, with Guilds and Alliances being a part of this whole mechanism, allowing minor guilds, small groups and casuals/soloers to partake in the battle for zone control with factions to gain minor benefits.

We also have the Orders that seem to have been forgotten. Maximizing reputation with the different orders would grant access to their items and objects in a similar fashion, and these Orders could perhaps comprise an Alliance of their own against the major racial factions, adding another interesting story element to the Factional Warfare system and disturbing the balance of power in Tyria if the devs would like to see the LW go in that direction.

Factional Reputation, in any case, opens up for a wide variety of gameplay systems and new methods of cosmetic advancement, customization and character progression, which is only positive in my opinion.

PVE RANKS/PARAGON SYSTEM
We gain skill points, but we’re still locked down in levels in PvE. Some other games, such as Tibia and RuneScape, have no such lock on levels, but the whole game is based instead on gaining as many levels as possible.

What I suggest is adding a sort of PvE Rank System, similar to the one in PvP. Allow us to level to 80, and then expand into ranks beyond that, similar to the Paragon System in Diablo 3.

This rank system would be separate from levels, as we wouldn’t be gaining power. It would function as follows; a character that reaches level 80 would, in a party for example, have his level color changed to, e.g., blue, which would show his rank level, in a range of 1-80, to begin with. This rank could then be expanded in future updates, but 80 seems like a good number to start with, since that’s where PvP rank cap and Level cap are both at.

At each 5 and 10 level interval we would gain purely cosmetic rewards, for example, new titles and ranks, new portrait frames and so on.

See attachment at bottom for example

This PvE Rank System could be tied to the existing Achievement System, so that we might gain, for example, boosts to Karma Gain, Experience Gain, Magic Find and Gold Find at different intervals.

If ArenaNet desires, they could add different kinds of boosts to this system, for example passive movement speed boosts, loot pickup radius and so on, boosts that would be disabled in competitive environments such as sPvP and WvW, but be active in PvE, to reflect the fact that this is a PvE System.

PvE Leaderboards could then be added, showing the players with the highest PvE Ranks in the game.

This Rank System should be a blend between the WXP and sPvP Rank Systems in difficulty and time, since it’s ment to display personal dedication, experience and active time in the game, the design would be similar in its mindset to that of Ascended and Legendaries; it’s a nice goal to work towards, encourages one to take an active part in community activities, since all PvE activities would add rank points, and is ment to be maxed in an organic manner through normal gameplay.

Eli Stormstrike.8637:

CONTINUED…

STRUCTURED PVP
sPvP, as it currently stands, is in an in-between. The roadmap that has been set out promises new additions and major changes, though it remains to be seen what the exact details of these changes are, but what PvP needs on a macro level to be able to be successful and expand and incorporate new elements is the following:

• New Game Modes
  Deathmatch, Capture the Flag, Battlegrounds and so on, the current seize-and-defend system isn’t bad, but it becomes tiresome, and the potential exists for sPvP to become much more engaging and fun than it currently is, and would allow for new game formats to be added…

• Rank System
  Ranks are being preserved, as has been stated, and it’s a positive thing too, as it encourages people to partake in PvP; without Glory and Ranks, sPvP would be even less active than it currently is, for the simple reason that there is no motivator for people to engage in active PvP, similar to how PvE would be dead without Legendary and Ascended grinding to encourage people to organize mining runs, world tours, temple runs and so on.

I would suggest expanding the Rank system to incorporate more rewards and new elements, preserving glory as a currency, or, at the least, replacing it with some similar system, which was mentioned though the details were vague.

Rewards aren’t the reason for PvP’ing, but they encourage the mass of the playerbase to become interested in, and engage with, the Mists. The exceptions are those groups of people who have a social circle within the game; e.g. IRL friends playing together, networks within guilds and so on, who have an established position and are competing in a different league compared to those who casually sPvP.

• Arenas and PvP
  Now, this would be an interesting component to add to sPvP. It would allow for GW2 to become a serious e-sport, if that is what it aspires to become, and could exist in formats of 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 and 5v5.

Inspiration can be taken from WoW and GW1, who both have Arena Systems and where competitive playing is, and was, on a much higher level than it currently is in GW2. Despite the fact that GW2 states that it is based on skill alone with regards to PvP, there are too many different factors that influence the outcome of a match for the devs to claim that skill is the decisive factor in gameplay.

Skill can be defined in different ways, but playing skillfully, defending points, seizing others and using skills carefully is punished relative to zerging through the match, double-capping and clogging into groups to cap points or mindlessly killing enemies.

This is fine for the casual hot-join environment that sPvP at the moment is, similar to battlegrounds in WoW, and more engaging PvP can be found on the Solo and Team Arenas, but an Arena System a lá WoW would allow for much more skilled gameplay.

The Arena could be implemented in two different modes, one with organized gameplay, and one with hot-join gameplay, similar to Random Arena in GW1. A solution that could be used to address skill balancing without affecting PvE and WvW would be the PvP Effect that was used in GW1 to alter skills while active in Arenas.

This would, at the least, encourage more players to partake in PvP, allow for pure skill to play a bigger role in the outcome of matches and give factors such as LoS, CC and kiting a greater importance in Arena-style maps similar to GW1 and WoW.

SKIN WARDROBE, GEM STORE SKINS AND PERMANENT UNLOCKS
One thing that would encourage me to spend more on the Gem Store would be if the skins we purchase there became permanent unlocks, that could then be used, similar to achievement skins, an unlimited amount of times on that account.

These could be added to the Skin Wardrobe that has been suggested alot of times to be implemented for PvE, where we unlock skins rather than individual gear pieces. We have a Collections Tab already, and such a wardrobe in sPvP; adding it to PvE would greatly increase the sense of customization and allow for more cosmetic progression.

Transmutation Stones would still have to be used, of course, except for Gem Store Skins, which would be applied the same manner in which achievement skins are applied, as an added bonus to, and for, purchasing them.

See Attachment for Details
Curtesy of Shriketalon.1937 (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Character-Progression-Vertical/page/5#post3369475)

Eli Stormstrike.8637:

CONTINUED…

HALL OF MONUMENTS, ACHIEVEMENT SYSTEM AND PLAYER HOUSING
One of the great things about the Hall of Monuments in GW1 was that it gave you an overarching goal so to speak; it inspired people to go out and enjoy gameplay and different parts of the game that one might never have tried out without the HoM. GW1 became re-vitalised through the implementation of the Hall of Monuments, because it gave people a goal to work towards, it implemented a new reward system that incorporated all areas of the game, and it encouraged both new and older players to once again become active members of the community, through dungeon running, mission running, vanquishing, zaishen dailies, farming and all manner of different areas of gameplay.

Looking back at it in hindsight, the rewards don’t matter much to me anymore, but the experiences I received from pursuing those rewards were invaluable; I became a part of the community, the game felt more alive, I enjoyed the experiences and was motivated to continue doing them because there was always 1 more point to get in the HoM, and in the end I was filling out the HoM because I wanted to gain as many achievements as possible. I still login at times just to look upon my HoM and can almost re-experience the images in my head when looking at the statues and armors, minipets and weapons and so on.

I think GW2 would benefit greatly from adding a Hall of Monuments to its core game, to give players a place to show off their achievements, trophies, accolades, titles, rewards, armors, weapons, miniatures and legendaries.

It would work similar to how legendaries and ascended have worked so far; it would provide players with an overarching goal and nudge them into engaging with the community and the gameplay, it would function as a path for people who have reached max level and are curious as to what to do next; “Oh, I could finish all dungeon paths and gain some statues, then finish all dungeon armors and show them off on mannequins in my HoM!”.

There are only benefits and no detriments, and it could be a part of a new Living World Update to retake and rebuild the Hall of Monuments in the game, as part of a Dynamic World Event with a progression tick box, similar to Tower of Nightmares.

This would also address the issue of player housing in a simple stroke.

One could also combine it with the Achievement System, similar to how maxed reputations in GW1 gave more glow to the Knight’s Statue in the HoM, the amount of achievement points one has could give the same effect to such a background statue in our HoM.

LORE CODEX
One thing certain other games have, such as SWTOR and Diablo III, which would be very useful in GW2, is a Codex where the lore and story of the game world is stored.

We already have a similar log for our personal stories, except this expanded log might give us background information on the zones we visit, as a reward for map completion and exploration, could expand the achievement system with a new category, as a guideline on where to find these tidbits of lore.

The end goal is to provide an in-game library of lore, story and continuity that would allow both new and old players to find information on, for example, the time between GW1 and GW2 and compile the history of Guild Wars, which might also get more people interested in the zones and quests which they are doing.

Getting players immersed in the gameworld and interested in the content they’re consuming can only be a positive, and it would allow the Living World Story, which many find confusing, to be compiled in a simple, in-game log, for people to follow and read through, and could be another reward for completing the LW meta-achievement.

Eli Stormstrike.8637:

CONTINUED…

DAILIES, MONTHLIES + WEEKLIES
We already have dailies and monthlies, I suggest a simple expansion with adding weeklies, just a simple expansion of the achievement system already in-place and yet another added incentive to consume content.

SEMI-RAID DUNGEONS
Another topic which has been debated in the community is the addition of raids and longer dungeons, similar to Underworld, Fissure of Woe, The Deep, Urgoz’ Warren and Domain of Anguish in GW1.

These longer and more complex dungeons could become what the initial intent was for explorable mode to become, now designed with legendaries and ascended in mind and using the experiences gathered since launch.

These dungeons could be scalable from between, say, 8-20 players, would not grant superior equipment other than what is already available in the game, but would instead grant rewards in the sense of tokens for a new set of cosmetic gear, have a higher chance of dropping rare and Ascended materials and so forth.

These would be on a weekly lockdown, resetting at the same time as the Weekly Achievement mentioned above.

If ANet would prefer these to be cordoned off from PUGs in order to further promote the importance of Guilds and encourage active involvement within Guilds, it would be possible to add these as some form of Guild Dungeon, similar to the current Guild Rush, Challenges and Missions, allowing Guilds to partake in these dungeons once a week for Guild achievements, trophies, merits, influence, rewards for the Guild Halls, individual commendations and statues for the HoM and so on.

Regardless of if these are intertwined with Guilds or made available to the general public, I believe these would be an interesting addition to the game and could be designed with endgame challenge in mind, with exclusive cosmetic rewards at the end, similar to how Arah was functioning at the launch of this game, and with time a raise in the average gear and skill level in the community to Ascended would allow casual players to complete these dungeons.

They could also be designed with the Weekly lock in mind throughout the process, e.g. allowing Guilds to finish off a section each night instead of having to finish it all at once, as the dungeon wouldn’t reset until the lock was removed.

These are all different suggestions on how it could be implemented, of course, but I believe the addition of these semi-raids would be a positive addition to dungeoneering.

Eli Stormstrike.8637:

CONTINUED…

ACCOUNT-BIND/SOULBOUND
To encourage alt’ing even further, I suggest that soulbound be removed whereever possible and be converted to account-bound; considering currencies are account-bound, there is no reason for us not to be able to use the same armor sets for our other characters, instead of having them purchase it again with the tokens grinded for on our mains.

DOUBLE SPECIALIZATION/TEMPLATE SYSTEM
The Template System that existed in GW1 saved alot of time, encouraged trying out different builds and easily allowed players who were inactive and returned to be able to become re-connected to the gameplay more easily through remembering and reading through the titles and compositions.

I see no reason for us not to implement such a system for our Traits and Skills, allowing us to re-specialize on the fly depending on the demands of the encounters before us.

WEAPON TYPE ACCESSIBILITY
I don’t see the reason for weapon types being restricted based on class and profession, and removing those restrictions might attract more people to different classes and give players an even broader sense of customization and progression.

I would, for example, love to see a Ranger able to use Rifles.

LEGENDARY DYES AND ACCOUNT-BINDING
This suggestion has been brought up before, I don’t recall where, but it’s yet another method of customization and cosmetic progression which is only positive.

First of all, Dyes should become account-bound on acquire, which would further ease and encourage alt’ing and be a simple quality-of-life update.

As for Legendary Dyes, the suggestion that was put forth was to add effects to the armor similar to those gotten from Legendary Weapons, with fogs and glowing effects added to the character and its armor.

DONE

Ah, and by the way: Legendaries should stay at ascended stats. The only difference between legendaries and ascended should be the free stat-swap, the final stats should be the same. Ascended should be top stat.

CHIPS.6018:

darkace.8925:

CHIPS.6018:

Basically it comes down to this:

GW1 kept players playing by having multiple alt-characters. It was super easy to level up and max equip a new character. This means newbies zones are rarely empty, because veteran players will be bringing their alts though those newbie zones. Most players have a decent understanding of multiple classes, because they played though them all.

WoW kept players playing by power creep. It takes a lot of time and effort to max equip just one character. And so everyone have to focus on one character, that’s it. The newbie zones are emptied out very quickly, because veteran players do not have time to play an alt. Since most players only ever play though 1 class, they often have great misunderstandings on other classes.

I personally prefer GW1’s method. And so it was disappointing to see GW2 going toward the WoW method.

You’re missing a huge aspect of what kept people playing Guild Wars: the expansions. Every year we got what was essentially a whole new game; complete with a new story, new classes, new areas to explore, new skills, and new features. Don’t underestimate the amount of longevity the expansions added, or the interest they generated among non/potential players.

I don’t know about you, but I personally had 10 characters in GW1. So for me, the ease of leveling and max equipping an alt-character is one of the major reasons for me to kept playing GW1 for 7 years. I finished all 4 campaigns for so many times I don’t remember.

1 of each class here. I did delete my characters to reserve names for GW2 (shame on me I know), but leveling & gearing was easy and that’s the way it’s supposed to be. Why would you build a whole game around getting the highest stats? It’s the story, the combat and PvP that make a game, the gear should only serve to let you complete those.

VERY NICE SUMMARY ELI STORMSTRIKE.8637!

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

brittitude.1983:

Crystal Desert
Queen Jennah opens the portal. The missing piece of the artifact must be found. Travel to the new land of the Crystal Desert and the LS story where you find the artifact and battle new enemies in an effort to help the orders recover control of the area. Find out new lore regarding Elona and what may come with the submission of the Crystal Desert.

Minor note, the Crystal Desert is not Elona and isn’t really close to it. There’s a lot of distance between the southernmost edge in the age of Prophecies and the northernmost edge of the Desolation in Elona. Someone worked out the math, and the result was something like . . .

. . . pretty fricking far

Oh sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that the Crystal Desert is Elona, just that you would learn more about what happened to Elona by entering the Crystal Desert and exploring.

Hi everyone

First of all, i’m not a native english speaker so sorry if i make mistakes (i’m french for those who are interested). And in a second time, i hope i’m in the good thread (well, i’ll talk about skills and traits so it should).

I just want to share a few ideas about the currant gameplay and how it is related whit skills and traits. I play elementalist and guardian mostly so i’ll take those 2 class as an exemple since i don’t know much the others.
In the current game i see only a few things which differentiate the same class : equipement, some traits (but some are taken by everyone which it’s sad) and skills (same problem with traits), etc.

So i had this idea of introducing as trait or skill (developper choice) a give and take bonus changing the way the class is played. I’ll take the elementalist as an exemple.
What if i want to play a fast caster elementalist, or a AoE based elementalist, or a single-targeted strong spell elementalist ? I know there are already traits which can make a little difference in this, but i’m talking about something more significant (when i say significant it means not just 5 or 10 % but more like 25%, well it’s just a randomly given number but you understood me) :

- The AoE based elementalist skill (or trait) : your AoE skills are x% larger but your spells (single and AoE targeted) deal y% less damages.
- The fast cast elementalist skill (or trait) : your skills are cast x% faster and the cooldown is reduced by y% but you deal z% less damages.
- The single-targeted spell caster elementalist skill (or trait) : your single-targeted spells deal x% more damages but your Aoe spells deal y% less damages and all your spells are cast z% slower.

Just some idea, but it can change the gameplay of one class quite easily (maybe not for the developper, i don’t know). Of course it doesn’t have to be just about damage but why not skill duration, healing skills, there are a lot of possibility. Anyway, for a great bonus you have to had a great (hum… maybe not the right word) malus. I let the developper balance it, mine are just rough idea.

edit : whor those who know, i take the idea in the dungeons & dragons game, more specificaly the idea come from the metamagic feats which give the spellcaster a bonus on the spell he casts but it take more power to cast it

So, people, developper, think and share

The Lost Witch.7601:

brittitude.1983:

The grand quest for the crystal desert

Interesting stuff, but perhaps a bit passive? It appears to be sort of an errant quest. In which you have to visit everything in the right order. Combat playing only a minor role.

While this could be great stuff for any lore lover, I can imagine it being a bit dull for players that are more interested in the challenges of combat. And perhaps even for the ‘explorers’ since we’re sort of being hand-held.

The idea could be tweaked to allow for more action though:

Perhaps an enemy would jump in and try to steal important parts of the puzzle. You would meet that enemy at pretty much every important step of the quest. Each time you try to stop him, sometimes you’ll win, sometimes you may fail. Near the end of the questline, we need those ingredients, and every ingredient lost must be found. You face the enemy once more, but this time you win, and find out that he has hidden what he has stolen in a number of caches all over the world. (One for each item he stole)

And perhaps for more exploration too:

In the soutshun update, we had a scanner to look for flowers. This felt a lot more like exploring than following my personal story stars. Maybe something like this can be used. Or perhaps there could be tracks left in the open world. Maybe a friend went ahead and marked the map with arrows on every crossing. The type of arrows you find when walking a nature trail, on trees and stones & such. Not part of the UI, but part of the landscape. Eventually you arrive at her location, where she lies defeated by your enemy. You help her back up, and together you end up at the end of the road.

---

As far as long – chase quests go for unlocking horizontal progression: I would LOVE to see environment based tracking in this game. Not of the type where you see a yellow name plate to interact with, but the type where you only see it if you are looking for it.

I completely agree with you! I already felt like the posts I put up were excessively long, so I tried to keep it as simple as possible, but at least get the idea of what it could be out there before the CDI was closed. I just wanted a basic sketch of some of the things that could be used to explore Tyria from one side all the way to the other might have in it.

When I think epic, I really think of a long journey with a lot of obstacles and a lot of ways to complete it, but not just go here, do that. I would definitely want to see something epic with a lot of exploration, combat, failure options, puzzles, etc. To me, the lore was actually rather secondary to the journey, although I can see how it might not seem that way in those posts.

My original idea, which was way too long to through up here, would have more of a puzzle or clue based exploration feel in parts, similar to a scavenger hunt, but I also didn’t want to get it too convoluted to follow when I was writing it. The riddle event in Wayfarer Foothills is something I think about when I think of using puzzles to figure out what to do next. And using clues to tie some of the more frequently recurring dynamic events into it, so that the person you were to speak with would have to be in a gathering mode or escort mode before you would be able to further the journey, but only those that happen regularly so it wouldn’t be difficult to finish.

I also wanted a lot more exploration throughout the different areas with more combat and also interaction with friendly tribes along the way. So Harathi Hinterlands, you might meet up with the friendly Skritt there who have hear about your contribution to the King and want to help you with part of the journey. Or have a few extra Seraph escort you to another location, etc. And of course, plenty of ambushes along the way. I mean, these bandits, pirates, even centaurs, hylek, etc, are all trying to recover the pieces too, so you would constantly be under attack. Maybe someone is following you and you decide to ambush them and your order choice determines how this will happen. If you are in a party, you get to decide amongst the orders that are with you which path to choose.

Also, I love your ideas for an enemy. It was similar to what I was going for with the two pirates roaming. I didn’t get to expand upon that as much as I wanted. When you were mentioning arrows or tracks, it makes me think of the tracks in the mountain in wayfarer hills and Weyandt’s Revenge JP in the maze where the rocks are in arrow formation to the parts of the wall you can walk through.

There’s to much empty content required to complete to get horizontal progression. Horizontal progression should ALWAYS be a bonus, not the requirement. Today it’s the only thing to keep playing the game, to have some feel of progression. But most of it is way to grindy.

Ascended to grindy.
Gold sellers making non stop inflation. Wich means if you quit the game for some time your capital could be worth less. This should not be a concern of players.
WXP levels to grindy.
Achievements to grindy. Especially some daily ones (the ones that cost 1-10g to complete (remember the specific consumables you had to eat, costed 1,5g to get it that day), also to long ones. Dungeon + personal story + events that don’t seem to spawn in certain area? Players should not waste hours everyday just to get this virtual ‘get it now, or never’ pressure achievements.
Skill get negative progression. Instead of becoming better or staying the same (strength), most skills become weaker and weaker, to even uselessness in some cases. Why play if next month your favorite skill setup (that’s not op by any means) could be nerfed? Why do a dungeon if it took less time at launch because the same skills were stronger then?
Denial to farming specific (high demand) items. Like t6 items, linen, whool etc. You keep nerfing specific farm spots that get these well. This is completely wrong. First of all if these items are farmed it means they are high demand and expensive. Expensive means the market is unstable, because demand cannot be fully supplied. If these ppl farm these items all they do is bring balance, and not imbalance. They are not cheating because even at the rates of the BEST farming spots (like Orr at start of game), the item influx was not to much at all. But you didn’t think properly and instantly nerfed all of them. Every item in the game, is almost needed more then ever for ascended (that alone makes them more expensive), but nerfing the acquisition of them is plain wrong. It makes for crazy item inflation, and makes it not interesting to play the game at all, since it’s way to grindy to move even forward. Look at Silk prices… 8 silver to 2,2silver. If this will happen for most items, then sorry, but i’m wasting my time on something that’s not achievable. Farming specific items gives purpose to players, brings them together, and balances the economy. Taking these out is just wrong.

We need full baked cookies, not half baked ones like the temporary content, and the problematic ‘progressions’ listed above.

This Post might sound angry but if only written to Point out some things about Respect. It is somthing I needed to get rid off and knowing Chris will read it I needed to write it here. To all those People who make a good Job summorizing things just ignore the post it has nothing worth summorizing that wasn’t mentioned before.

Fractals: Why did you feel that resetting everybody to fractal level 30 was the best course of action?
“We were changing the relative difficulties of those levels and really wanted to level the playing field and give everyone a fresh start. We know this devalued some of the work people did but we wanted everyone to have a common language as far as the progression in fractals and didn’t want confusion in terminology for example ’I’m a pre change level 50 fractal’. Now if someone says they are level 50 in fractals everyone understand what they did and what that progress means, this becomes very important as we increase the levels in fractals.” ~Isaiah Cartwright

Why do answers to this Topic always have to be so unpersonal. Using the Word devalue of Work instead of naming it resetting/deleting or whatever for me isn’t very respectfull. You didn’t devalue my work after 30+ you deleted all 51 Levels I worked for getting on scale 81. You deleted em you didn’t devalue em I have absolutly no value of the work done after 30 (I invested about the Gold I got from chests so don’t talk about rewards that were crapy Greens before january 2013). The second Thing that really annoys me is that if you were fully Aware of what you are going to do to some of your playerbase why was there absolutly no : SORRY?
Why couldn’t Isaiah write after writing: We know this devalued some of the work people did AND WE FEEL SORRY FOR THIS, or just somthing along those lines..
And still the question lies now that it is actually official that you knew you just delete hours and hours of effort of a niche playerbase: WHY DIDN’T YOU THINK OR MENTION SOME SORT OF COMPENSATION AT ALL?

I know the text seems to be written not offensive at all. But for me the word devalue is a slap in the face. Because basicaly the Progress getting deleted / reseted not devalued.

I agree that you can use the word but it sounds zynic. I mean for a fact one can perfectly say: The twin Towers got devalued. Because the value of the Towers really has decreased. But than again it would be zynic and not respectfull at all to what have happened. I know this might be very provocative, but it’s maybe the best way to Show you why I feel that this word in combination with no sorry / or excuse from the People who have done it, in the full awareness that People will have somthing devalued after, sounds zynic and not respectfull at all to me.

Back to Progression: Is it likely to happen ever again that a small Group of really dedicted Players will have they’re efforts DEVALUED after a patch without compensation and excuse ?

The answer is Yes most likely: When they nerfed cof p1 Boss they devalued my Progress in the dungeontitel because it was easier to get now. Every nerf in a specific Content with a reward or achievment tied to it as well as any new form of getting better gear ( for example ascended) Is basicaly devalueing the reward from Players that has done it without this new stronger gear or when the Boss was still hard.

IIs it likely to happen ever again that a small Group of really dedicted Players will have they’re efforts DELETED after a patch without compensation and excuse

I don’t know the answer to this question yet but it is pretty important when speaking about Progression. Remember this was basicaly the first question asked in the whole Progression CDI but still the one takes the longest to answer. I’m ok with this as Long as it gets an answer and will be treated with RESPECT and not some nice sounding buisness words!

Thanks for reading and sorry the stuff that might sound offensive in the end we’re all human and we all do mistakes saying sorry is at least a way to let the People you hurt know that you did one.

There’s recently been a short discussion thread on reddit on the topic of subclasses within GW2; I was asked to cross-post one of my responses here. To save time adjusting the character count and formatting, I’m just going to link it:

My thoughts on the role of a subclass system within GW2

Eli Stormstrike.8637:

This Rank System should

I like that picture you put in there. it would be nice to get different portrait frames even in party or when you are selected by someone depeonding on your number of levels after lvl 80
Because leveling will be done easily after lvl 80… I suggest like every 50 levels you get a new rank so a new portrait frame.

Really cool catching up on all of this. Some fantastic ideas in here. I like the advance profession stuff. All of that aside, none of this really matters to me if it isn’t in new permanent maps with new content. We are going on a year and a half without a new region. Not new map, but whole new region.

I think all of the ideas here would be best implemented with all new maps, races, stories etc. You know, like an expansion. That is the expansion like part of these two week updates we haven’t gotten yet. With all due respect because I love this game, but it’s long overdue.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi Tobias,

I like your commentary on housing. In a game like GW2 I think that the focus is best pointed at ‘Character’ Progression rather than ‘World’ progression and I think your housing ideas fit nicely within this paradigm.

The focus should be on the character and the story and the synergy between the two.

Chris

A dev responded directly! Quick, someone check my hair…

I think the housing idea is something which can be meshed very well as a quality-of-life improvement and in a weird way can also serve as a replacement for Guild Halls on a lower level. (“Guild meeting will be at the leader’s house this week.”) It can’t truly replace how Halls worked, or work in other games, but it does remind me somewhat of “Guild Airships” from DDO. In that they were real nice for a few things.

The housing idea can easily also dovetail out into personal story bits (not “Personal Story” exactly) as players are willing to unlock or otherwise seek out starting threads. A Living Story concept which would take prior-introduced housing and thread in unrelated but ongoing stories through some NPCs which evolve over time?

Lets the player progress through a different story if they don’t like the current one, at their own pace, and progresses something intangible or purely a cosmetic effect. Such as helping a charr gladium set up shop and as you assist him/her more options open up for your housing.

(Save that one for a Living World CDI or if it’s already passed, I’ll leave that here.)

Chris Whiteside.6102:

cesmode.4257:

ColinJohanson.2394:

A lot of the ideas boiled down into variations of one of these two options, and really both have a lot of cool concepts and ideas. Can folks think of anything else that’s a bit more outside the box for something bigger?

I had suggested several times about Global Dominance system. Similar to WvW…we as players and as a server, complete events across the entire map of Tyria and receive passive bonuses based on the % of the map that we control as players. So if we leave entire zones(say the lesser traveled zones) to be completely occupied by centaurs, for example, we won’t be receiving maximum benefits. And you can use most of the existing dynamic events to accomplish this. There are many DEs that take over way points and camps that we as players can complete and push enemy NPCs back…thus acquiring a larger portion of the world.

This encourages players to play in more than one zone, get sthem out in the world, etc.

On top of this, put in a reward system for completing unique(different) dynamic events in a month. I.E. Complete 90 unique dynamic events in January and receive a Cesmode mini(just kidding). But you get the picture.

Is that big enough and outside the box?

Just catching up now. I really do like this idea, always have. I see this as a base system that would be applied to content across the board that would impact many features and mechanics, not just Horizontal Progression. I bet this idea comes up in many more CDIs as it has already done in the past.

Chris

Not to be a gamebreaker but why would people care about not receiving maximum benefit. There is already a system like that in place. Killing mobs that haven’t been killed in a long time are more rewarding. But that does not work.

The only way I think this would work if is the economy is tight to it (you buy stuff at a vendor but he needs materials that are being collected with some event so if that event is never done he does not sell it). In a way thats also already in place but then the problem is that vendors don’t really sell stuff you need.

Another way it might work if you would have factions and are competing with another faction over territory. Problem there is that one faction has more people and so is always dominating. But there might be thinks to balance that out (giving the faction with less people more NPC’s to fight over territory). However we do not have factions.

About the reward. Please not like that. That would mean yet another grind. If you follow the forums a little bid you can see how grind is one of the main complains. And not only a grind even worse, a temporary grind (that other complain you see all over the place). “Oow nice mini you have there, where can I get that?”, “You can’t, that was last months”, “oow:(“, “Well maybe it’s on the TP.. Go grind gold and buy it”, “More grind??? I just want to play for my rewards, not grind”.
Seriously. Rearding for something like that with unique rewards would introduce yet another grind and we should lose some of the grind.

Do the oposit of this with the LS. A living (temporary) story without achievements and rewards that leaves behind content that might have achievements linked to it and new drops and rewards. Then you add new stuff to the game.

Making it temporary rewards would just introduce a new grind.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Conski Deshan.2057:

1. Communities or Solo instances?, do you want to see groups of players houses in the one instance or a private instance with only your house in it? (people can still visit either way.)

Snip…

2. Construction, what level of involvement would you like? building it block by block? A room by room function where you can pick and choose rooms to add? A series of set designs?

I love games like Minecraft and Terraria’s control over what you can do and the sheer RIDICULOUS amount of effort people can put into doing things terribly unique with construction. I’d rather they stick to those games than Guild Wars 2. I’m sorry, don’t get me wrong, those of you who do things like rebuild Minas Tirith or make soaring citadels of glass and stone which look like they took hours – I salute you. But trying to satisfy you with that level of control is going to drive the developers MAD. MAD I SAY.

What I’d expect is a modular approach. You can choose a floorplan/blueprint from a few predeveloped shells with “X large rooms, Y small rooms, and Z floors”. Then you can pick and choose from a list of “large rooms”, “small rooms” to fill it in. Things like a trophy hall, a crafting workshop, or something just decorative . . . like your asura has a golem foundry, my human has a chapel to Grenth, his charr can have a room where he works on his charrzooka or mortar system. But almost all of the basic rooms come unfurnished.

Then you can use artisans or interior decorator NPCs to create from a menu using some materials (not huge amounts though) to craft furniture or decorations which get placed like siege blueprints – you get a bundle item and a red outline turning green where you can place it. Standing close you can target it for context specific things . . . like sitting on the couch or posing before a trophy on the wall.

3.Functionalities, I think we can all agree at a basic level housing should allow for some storage and display of trophies/achievements/weapons/armor , in addition to this what would you like to see, Farming? nodes? intractable objects? side missions?

~

4. Interior customization, placing objects within the house how would you like it to work?

~

5. Getting items, How do you get items to put in your house?

~

6. Linking to other content, is there anything you would like to link with housing? (i.e in a perfect vision of the future I could walk out of my house onto an airship dock and take my airship into combat)

~

Hi Tobias,

I like your commentary on housing. In a game like GW2 I think that the focus is best pointed at ‘Character’ Progression rather than ‘World’ progression and I think your housing ideas fit nicely within this paradigm.

The focus should be on the character and the story and the synergy between the two.

Chris

I do think the detail level is important so in that way the block by block idea is not that bad. It’s the same as when you create a character there are many little details you can adjust. Eyebrows , nose width and so on. In an MMO setting up something personal is part of the fun and the more details you have the more fun it can be. So I don’t see why the house itself should be a more modular approach. Yeah it’s a lot of work but other games show it’s possible.

Anyway, the stuff you put in the house and the colors and so on you could indeed make more modular so you can collect them in the open world. Once again there bing careful it’s really something you can go for in the open world not that it becomes yet another very grindy element of the game. And grinding meaning you can’t set as goal going for one item itself but you are pretty much forces to grind for gold to then buy it. Then it would add something nice to the game that I see ad character progression because in a way the house is also part of the character, just as the armor he wears, colors he use and mini he has walking next to him.

Then where to put the houses? A few years ago that would be in instances but now it would make more sense to put them in open maps. Claim land and build the house there. I am not sure what you mean with “world progression” but it’s all link to your character / account.

All in all I had to go for Conski Deshan vision of housing. It’s just more interesting.

Tyria has lot of unique and fun races. Are there any plans to add event where we can spend “1 day” as one of them? For example to be skritt and hunt for shinies, quaggan swim races or dredge searching for ores while you are almost blind etc. (doesnt matter if personal story, guild mission or anything else).

Nearly anything they introduce would be percieved by some group as a grind, (oh you’ve added subclasses? now I “have” to grind that for all my characters to remain completely effective.)
It’s an optional objective for people who want to pursue it.

As for temporary available unique rewards, personally I like them, it adds flavour, and for a game claiming a living story shows that the story changed, an event happened that you had to be there for.
Newer content does as you suggest also, it leaves behind new content and achievements (atherpath, Teq, New fractal achievements).

Edit: @Devata Thanks for your support on my idea of housing but you do realise I was supporting modular build design like Tobias, and that my version of housing is instanced, both points you were against?
I placed the other options in the question so people could choose what they like.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi Tobias,

I like your commentary on housing. In a game like GW2 I think that the focus is best pointed at ‘Character’ Progression rather than ‘World’ progression and I think your housing ideas fit nicely within this paradigm.

The focus should be on the character and the story and the synergy between the two.

Chris

A dev responded directly! Quick, someone check my hair…

I think the housing idea is something which can be meshed very well as a quality-of-life improvement and in a weird way can also serve as a replacement for Guild Halls on a lower level. (“Guild meeting will be at the leader’s house this week.”) It can’t truly replace how Halls worked, or work in other games, but it does remind me somewhat of “Guild Airships” from DDO. In that they were real nice for a few things.

The housing idea can easily also dovetail out into personal story bits (not “Personal Story” exactly) as players are willing to unlock or otherwise seek out starting threads. A Living Story concept which would take prior-introduced housing and thread in unrelated but ongoing stories through some NPCs which evolve over time?

Lets the player progress through a different story if they don’t like the current one, at their own pace, and progresses something intangible or purely a cosmetic effect. Such as helping a charr gladium set up shop and as you assist him/her more options open up for your housing.

(Save that one for a Living World CDI or if it’s already passed, I’ll leave that here.)

That’s way to modular. People like the freedom to make there unique place. You did refer to minecraft. The fact that games like minecraft are so popular proofs that it’s a high level of freedom in building what you want that is so popular. It’s also the reason that GW2 has such detailed options for the looks of a character. Why then choose for such a modular option for housing. Just because it’s hard?

Besides, the personal story should never be something you need to do so linking it to that would not be so great imho. Same for the Living Story. I do not find it very good what they did with the nodes. Now many people simply never have the option to get those nodes they missed.

You can’t just ignore the world around you just because it would be hard to implement.

Conski Deshan.2057:

Nearly anything they introduce would be percieved by some group as a grind, (oh you’ve added subclasses? now I “have” to grind that for all my characters to remain completely effective.)
It’s an optional objective for people who want to pursue it.

As for temporary available unique rewards, personally I like them, it adds flavour, and for a game claiming a living story shows that the story changed, an event happened that you had to be there for.
Newer content does as you suggest also, it leaves behind new content and achievements (atherpath, Teq, New fractal achievements).

Edit: @Devata Thanks for your support on my idea of housing but you do realise I was supporting modular build design like Tobias, and that my version of housing is instanced, both points you were against?
I placed the other options in the question so people could choose what they like.

For the grind part it really depends on the way you implement it. I always want to make a difference between grinding (pretty much just doing one single activity that is most rewarding to then use your gained currency to get what your need). Farming on the other hand I see more as more going directly for your goal. I usually take mini’s as an example.

You can do stuff in the world to get money and then buy your mini. That usually means people will do whatever makes them the most money in the shortest way. At that moment they are grinding to get there mini.

On the other hand, that mini might drop from a specific dungeon. Then you can also star farming that dungeon hoping to get the mini to drop.

Same for the sub-class. Lets say to unlock the subclass you need to earn laurels yeah then people feel they need to grind there way to get it. Ad quest they can do to earn there sub-class (so you can directly work for it.) that it will be less of a grind. Of course you can still make it so then you can also unlock the sub-class with laurels or skill-points or whatever. In that case you allow for a grind and for a more direct approach.

Have to disagree about that it adds flavor because what now happens now is that when a new LS has some skin rewards you suddenly see everybody with that reward. Then a month or two later they moved on to the skins of a new living story and suddenly you see everybody with those new items. So the people around you seems to have a lot of the same skins.. Then you will say.. yeah but there will always be a few that will use that skin form a few months ago so thats the flavor it adds. True, but how is that different from if you can still get them. If there are many skins in the game some will be more rare then other. Does not mater if the reason is because it was only available a few months ago or because it’s a item that is hard to get. The only difference is that if you then see somebody with a great looking helm and you want to go for it (play the game) then in the case of a temporary reward you hear thats not possible. However in the case it’s just hard to get then you have a new goal in the game that will keep you busy for a long time.

And about the housing. Oow oke, yeah it was a little hard to follow because of all the quotes. I though you did want a more dynamic way of building and where at least thinking of multiple manned instances for housing in stead of a single person isntance.

Devata.6589:

That’s way to modular. People like the freedom to make there unique place. You did refer to minecraft. The fact that games like minecraft are so popular proofs that it’s a high level of freedom in building what you want that is so popular. It’s also the reason that GW2 has such detailed options for the looks of a character. Why then choose for such a modular option for housing. Just because it’s hard?

To be blunt? Yes.

I’m trying to at least temper my suggestions by the knowledge there are developers who have to take what I suggest and make something out of it. Minecraft building is “easy” and yet incredibly time consuming. (And I should know, I’m “on call” somewhat within my circle of friends to do small builds or help with layouts….)

Minecraft, and Terraria and Starbound, all take some of the mess out of player building because they align edges and bounding boxes for you. (For those who don’t know, that’s where your models can walk or are stopped from pushing through.) They align textures for you. Torches and other light sources automatically set up the light level for you, and then the rendering engine in the game figures out how to send shadows.

The devs for GW2 very likely, and it is my assumption they do, have to do this by hand. I tried it once for Doom maps. Let us say it was a definite learning experience about the process.

So yes, I will definitely confess to that. I make it modular because it’s easier and less work to expand on than allowing a player to access it. I suppose if it was a kit similar to “custom arenas kit”, then it might work out. Assuming the custom arenas kit has a high degree of flexibility.

Besides, the personal story should never be something you need to do so linking it to that would not be so great imho. Same for the Living Story. I do not find it very good what they did with the nodes. Now many people simply never have the option to get those nodes they missed.

I differentiated between “personal story” and “Personal Story”. What I’m talking about is a different and separate track from the Living Story where it wouldn’t go away every two months but would receive updates every two months, nor would it require progression in the Personal Story.

(A lot of people abandoned it at some point or just don’t care. I’m very aware of this so I don’t want to put out a proposition which will force them to take part in it. Any more than I’d make it only available if you did WvW until your World Rank was 20, or sPvP until you reached Rank 2348. I want this to be open to everyone at the start, and if they have to walk away . . . they can come back and those NPCs are there waiting to keep going.)

You can’t just ignore the world around you just because it would be hard to implement.

May I correct you? Yes, I can, but I probably shouldn’t. But what I want to do is keep from forcing people through as many problems as I can when I design this stuff in my head. I want to make it easy to access, easy to work with for everyone involved, and hopefully fun.

If that means going “this won’t interact well with this, so let’s not do that”, I’m game for it.

Sorry.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Devata.6589:

That’s way to modular. People like the freedom to make there unique place. You did refer to minecraft. The fact that games like minecraft are so popular proofs that it’s a high level of freedom in building what you want that is so popular. It’s also the reason that GW2 has such detailed options for the looks of a character. Why then choose for such a modular option for housing. Just because it’s hard?

To be blunt? Yes.

I’m trying to at least temper my suggestions by the knowledge there are developers who have to take what I suggest and make something out of it. Minecraft building is “easy” and yet incredibly time consuming. (And I should know, I’m “on call” somewhat within my circle of friends to do small builds or help with layouts….)

Minecraft, and Terraria and Starbound, all take some of the mess out of player building because they align edges and bounding boxes for you. (For those who don’t know, that’s where your models can walk or are stopped from pushing through.) They align textures for you. Torches and other light sources automatically set up the light level for you, and then the rendering engine in the game figures out how to send shadows.

The devs for GW2 very likely, and it is my assumption they do, have to do this by hand. I tried it once for Doom maps. Let us say it was a definite learning experience about the process.

So yes, I will definitely confess to that. I make it modular because it’s easier and less work to expand on than allowing a player to access it. I suppose if it was a kit similar to “custom arenas kit”, then it might work out. Assuming the custom arenas kit has a high degree of flexibility.

Besides, the personal story should never be something you need to do so linking it to that would not be so great imho. Same for the Living Story. I do not find it very good what they did with the nodes. Now many people simply never have the option to get those nodes they missed.

I differentiated between “personal story” and “Personal Story”. What I’m talking about is a different and separate track from the Living Story where it wouldn’t go away every two months but would receive updates every two months, nor would it require progression in the Personal Story.

(A lot of people abandoned it at some point or just don’t care. I’m very aware of this so I don’t want to put out a proposition which will force them to take part in it. Any more than I’d make it only available if you did WvW until your World Rank was 20, or sPvP until you reached Rank 2348. I want this to be open to everyone at the start, and if they have to walk away . . . they can come back and those NPCs are there waiting to keep going.)

You can’t just ignore the world around you just because it would be hard to implement.

May I correct you? Yes, I can, but I probably shouldn’t. But what I want to do is keep from forcing people through as many problems as I can when I design this stuff in my head. I want to make it easy to access, easy to work with for everyone involved, and hopefully fun.

If that means going “this won’t interact well with this, so let’s not do that”, I’m game for it.

Sorry.

- I do understand it’s a lot of work especially because there is nothing in the game like it yet but on the other hand the basics would be making a grid system and then building means you just place an item somewhere inside that grid so I do think it’s in the lines of what is doable. It also depends a little on how there core works at this moment. So how they can create the world.

- Then I don’t really understand your ‘personal story’ or how it would be different from the living story.

Devata.6589:

- I do understand it’s a lot of work especially because there is nothing in the game like it yet but on the other hand the basics would be making a grid system and then building means you just place an item somewhere inside that grid so I do think it’s in the lines of what is doable. It also depends a little on how there core works at this moment. So how they can create the world.

“So how they can create the world.”

I’d almost suspect given what I’ve seen in GW1 with the dungeon design in EOTN and what we’ve got in the world so far, it’s similar in nature to the ES Construction program I got with Morrowind. Something I looked at, went “oh my god this is really going to take some time to invest myself in studying”, and weighed against my situation at the time, then put on a back burner. Much like the Neverwinter Nights Aurora toolkit.

Naturally it’d be more advanced than things around ten years old, but I can mentally picture it. Mostly modular with a bit of freeform potential thrown in, and a colossal chance to have things act “weird”.

(There is an item which is noted in the Morrowind Strategy Guide, verified in the CS kit, but unfortunately they forgot to leave an edge of it accessible so it’s a sword embedded in a boulder unreachable without some command console cheats.)

- Then I don’t really understand your ‘personal story’ or how it would be different from the living story.

It’s “personal” because it’s advanced by your character at your player’s pace. And you could put a “personal touch” on decisions . . . hopefully ones with impact . . . rather than it just be simple quests. Though I don’t know how much I’d mind that if they were done well enough to allow some freedom in how to approach/solve it.

And it’s different from the Living Story because it wouldn’t be temporary and disappear when the window closed, it’d just be appended to the end of it until you felt like proceeding.

You missed “Seven Spires of Rata Sum”? You missed out on the Mini Inquest Ravager Golem? Oh, well the housing NPCs still have the material all ready for you if you go say hi to them.