Guild Wars 2

Are we allowed to talk about how the Commander system impacts with PvE as well?

Could you describe what the Dev’s feel the Commander System does well now?

(That should reduce the amount of barking up the wrong tree )

I use the commander system for a “come here” identifier on map, a point of morale for the unorganized players on map to see someone is leading, and to do supply info.

What it should do – all of the above plus allow for management of the force you are leading. It should be a tool to support decisions the Commander is making.

Strength, composition, location, logistics status, health, sub leaders are all tactical information I manage through memory and voice communications when it should be provided through a simple heads up display. and allow me to make decisions without having to interact. My voice communication should be free for commands and reports.

Quick fix, long term fix, total wipe- I choose quick fix of up to five small items to increase functionality

1. Differentiate tags using colors- preferably guild emblem if guild emblem is implemented you can have 5 people in a guild tagged and the map knows it is them operating without needing Lieutenant tags.
2. Invisible / private / guild only tags – I do not tag up unless I have a substantial amount of people in teamspeak from my guild on me. I seek success as a team and that happens when I have my team / guild with me.
3. Display the location of my squad and any Lieutenants on mini and main map.
4. Change suppression threshold
5. Hide the commander from the buff bar.

Long term solutions needed
1. A user interface that displays my squad members by name, class and health bar . This directly supports decision making during skirmishes so I know the percentage and structure of my downed / remaining force.
2. squad leaders / sub commanders – I delegate tasks to small teams from the size of 2 to 15. Provide a way for me to segregate them, identify a leader among them and track them on any of the maps. I don’t have to waste time communicating if I can see with my own eyes

Include all of the short term recommendations as well.

I have a commander tag and use it regularly out in WvW and for leading guild missions and scarlet invasions in PvE.

It would be great to have the option to change the color of the tag. This makes it very easy on both the main map and minimap to spot the commander you are looking for when there is more than 1 commander on the map. I have not seen more than 4 commanders in WvW on a single map usually and in PvE I typically see about that when doing invasions. Having 4-6 colors to choose from would be sufficient I believe and add a ton of utility.

In setting up a WvW guild run it is sometime burdensome for members to find my character in the group so they can click on me and then add to my squad. It would be great if like a party invite, commanders could easily select the people on screen and add them to their squad. The commanders seem to be more adept at the UI than the people running with them. I would be fine if some of the squad creation burden was transfered to the commander themself.

In terms of seeing the people around and amount of supply they carry, it would be beneficial to me if there was an optional UI widget where I could see the number of players in a 1200-1500 radius and the amount of supply they have and the UI would update in real time as people come in and out of the commander’s range and as supply is spent. This would make stacking supply checks a thing of the past.

Commander waypoints would be more useful if everyone on the map could see them even if they arent in the commander’s squad. It can still work that if you join a squad that you can only see the commander for whose squad you are in and only their waypoint. Right now I dont use waypoints as it takes too long to add people to your squad and there is relitively little value from having people in your squad right now as things are today.

Lastly, it would be nice to optionally see the people who are members your squad in a simple party UI type view (just by name and profession and not conditions/boons) where the commander and squad can see all the location dots on the main and mini-map. This would also give the commander the ability to kick people from their squad as well. This would be most help in the PvE type events where we are trying to guide guild members around to where we are at for bounties, but cant see where they are to help them. Right now when this happens the commander/leader drops party and picks up the newer player in their party to help and then we have to get everyone back into their former parties when everyone gets to the same location.

Hello Anet and fellow gw2 players.

First of all i have to clarify that I’m mainly running with a commander and only occasionally do the leading part myself, though I’m playing the game since release and have the knowhow. Due to this I want to add some suggestions.

1. Invisible Commander
Make it possible for the Commander symbol invisible to all players not in the squad. This would create the possibility for a guild grp to activate their commander without stealing the players from the main commander of the map. (other commanders can see him though you can also disable that or add an option to disable it)

2. Close Squad
Grant the Commander the option to close his squad, making it impossible for ppl to enter who he or someone from the squad doesnt invite

3. Squad kick
Make it possible to kick players from his squad. And add the ability to kick all Squadmembers who’re not on the map.

4. Squad Officer
Add the possibility to promote someone in the Squad to an officer, granting him the possibility to kick members from the squad and put symbols and paint on minimap. would make it easier for scouts to mark a position. (could also be added the possibility to add an extra symbol for all officers of the squad on the minimap, but this could make some trouble)

With those 4 points it would be a lot nicer for guild grps to use commander on wvw maps without being inconvenient to the main commander on that map.

5. Commander Buff Bar
This is the main downside of Commander currently, please make it work like the outnumbered buff in wvw! An enemy shouldn’t be able to tell who’s the commander just by looking at his buffbar. This can make differences in many fights, due to each commander being unable to immediatly tell who’s the commander.

6. Commander visibility
I’m not sure if this here is the correct place to post it, but i think it should be fine. If the Commander is a small character (like asura) and stand inside of a big one (like norn or charr) often commander symbol disapears behind the bigger model. Although many names ontop the commander symbol let it disapear too. this destroys the functionality of it, cause noone is able to tell where he is.

7. Commander on the sides
Sry for the naming, I just didn’t knew how to name it. in short it should display a commander arrow on the edge of your screen if the commander in whom’s squad you’re isnt on your screen. this would improve the ability for squadmembers to follow their commander. (for example commander is on the left side then on the left side in the direction where your commander is the mark is placed)

8. Follow commander reward
There should be a reward for players added who correctly follow their commander. for example, for each squadmember who completes the same achievement the reward should increase slightly. (if the squad has 50 members and 30 of those complete an event, those 30 should get a small reward for completing an event with 30ppl of the squad) this would encourage joining a squad from an commander. although it might help stopping ppl from having bad beaviour against a commander, cause if they’re blocked they can’t join his squad.

9. Squad limit
Increase the Squad limit that it’s impossible that not all ppl from a map can join it. For example increase it to 100.

Thank you for reading my post, I hope it will help you making an even better game.

DevonCarver.5370:

The commander system provides recognizable guidance in WvW and in PvE for players to follow on the map.

The main issue I have with this is that you spend 100 gold on a recognizable dot.
Most of the people that have a badge don’t even know about the special order waypoints you can use on the map.

The current system doesn’t really support WvW fights. Like commands to people that are in squad but not on VOIP.

I had three idea from my limited understanding as a person who just follows commanders around . (I don’t own one myself)

Tag Colors: It would be nice if after you own a tag ‘basic’ blue tag you could spend, say, 20g, to buy an additional color. If you made 5 more colors (red, orange, yellow, green, purple) available, and did NOT arrange them in a hierarchy (all 5 colors be come accessible at the same time rather than an ordered series of purchases), commanders could differentiate themselves better while you still get a little gold sinking, and having the complete array of colors would cost as much as a second tag.

Earned Tags: It would be cool to have earned tags use a different shape. I’d like to see black ‘Shield’ and white ‘Sword’ tags that are earned by completing enough defensive (shield) or offensive (sword) WvWvW achievements. This would give you declared offensive and defensive commanders who likely know their stuff considering how they got that tag. I’d avoid granting specialized tag shapes just for WvW experience (partially because its an undifferentiated blob of all activities and partially because you can buy it with laurels without actually WvW’ing…)

Limited Visibility: It would be nice if the commander could set their tag to be “Map wide”, “Guild Wide” or “Party Wide”. This would allow commanders to still direct traffic for smaller, focused groups without cluttering the display and to allow them to act with discretion when there are concerns of spies for other servers on the map.

I guess my question would be to the Devs as to what they want to/think should be changed about commander functionality?

In my opinion I have had very few situations when I’m commanding in WvW or PvE where I think to myself “man if only I could do x as a commander”. Sure there are some polishes that could be done such as improving the radius of /supplyinfo, or making tags invisible to others besides squad on command, etc. But as a whole I think that those are superfluous adds that aren’t really going to affect commanding in general.

The only thing that I really think should be changed about commanders (although I understand that it is next to impossible to change it now) is the way that tags are acquired. Simply garnering 100g is not a difficult feat, and in no way establishes one’s ability to lead. Sure it is a sacrifice, but to turn on your tag in WvW there really should be a rank requirement (i.e. you have to have at least r50 in order to turn on your tag). That would establish that people have at least spent time in WvW before taking the helm of a giant zerg.

Quick changes.

Please expand the commander icon to be able to be set to 3 colors and 3 different shapes.
Reasoning: Some players are color blind and just going with several additional colors could also lead to some shades being too close together. using 3 primary colors and 3 basic shapes offers 9 distinct combinations. In wvw it could be common practice that main zerg uses Triangle and havocs use Circle and a commander focusing on def and not leaving their side of the map uses square. this could also be done by color: blue red yellow. but say a havoc group gets too big or a side objective needs a short term commander, then another commander could tag up using a different shape or color to match the community accepted norm and carry on with little confusion. In PvE i have yet to see any encounter that could benifit from more than 9 distinct groups coordinating so for the time being 3 colors 3 shapes work
Expansion: Down the line additional shapes could be added to be prescribed different roles by the community, these shapes would be low resource intensive for the devs to add.
interface: next to the create squad icon it already shows the commander icon. Make that clickable to select the shape/color combo you wish to use.

Really Quick change.

Please adjust the commander tag so it operates like the called target icon. The commander tag currently gets smaller the further into the distance the commander gets. however the called target stays the same size regardless of distance.

The smaller blue tag can become hard to see in the chaos of battle. even using your minimap to follow can become difficult. a tag that stays the same size at all times is far easier to follow. In fact many people resort to calling target on their own commander because it is easier to find than the blue chevron

Daniel.5463:

1. Invisible Commander
Make it possible for the Commander symbol invisible to all players not in the squad. This would create the possibility for a guild grp to activate their commander without stealing the players from the main commander of the map. (other commanders can see him though you can also disable that or add an option to disable it)

As someone who runs in guild groups regularly, this would be so incredibly helpful. Currently, we have to set our group’s target on the leader, which is easy to get messed up in the heat of combat.

1. Allow commanders to hide their commander tag. This would help guilds which just want to raid by themselves. As it is right now, they have to CTRL+T the leader in order to “create” an invisible commander tag.

2. Allow commanders to choose the color of their commander tag. Also, make it so when a player hover the mouse over the commander tag on the map, it shows a short message that could be like “guild raid, everyone welcome” or “Map jumping commander” or something like that (written by the commander himself, of course).

3. Greatly increase the range of /supplyinfo command. Also, create more commands. They could be something like /classcheck (to let the commander understand which classes he has in his warband).

4. Allow the commander to write in the whole zone, just like when a “scarlet minion blablabla” event is coming. Put some limits, in order to avoid an abuse of this power.

5. Allow the commander to place PERMANENT marks on the map, in order to better cooperate with other groups in the map, or to let people help understand what he’s gonna do and when. Of course, like in point 2, when people hover with the mouse over these marks, let a small message pop up (written by the commander).

A lot more can be done, I’ll wait to see what other people will suggest before writing something else

A random feature that would be nice – a sort of public ‘Call Target’ for building siege sites. It’s common to drop multiple siege at once (like 2 or 3 rams at a door), and it’s easy for people to get confused over which one they’re supposed to build first.

An inverse, don’t build target would also be nice for when someone accidentally drops a ram instead of an AC on the walls, or such. Just as a visual indicator, of course, since actually preventing people from building would be too easy to exploit.

Nike.2631:

Could you describe what the Dev’s feel the Commander System does well now?

DevonCarver.5370:

I can, and it will be brief.

The commander system provides recognizable guidance in WvW and in PvE for players to follow on the map.

It has other functions that are useful but are opaque to most players of GW2.

I’d say there is significant room for improvements of functionality as well as the possibility that a completely overhauled system would better serve the needs of the WvW community and the PvE community.

I notice “Gold Sink” is NOT on that list .

Would you consider going so far as to revoke all existing tags (returning 100g per tag removed) and switching entirely to a system based on merit/earned tags?

Comamnder system really needs improvement. But there should be more “levels” of commander badge.
1)I would leave commander system as it is now, only make it account bound. Why? Imagine you have 6 alts, all on lvl 80 with full exotic, and you use them for different occasions. Like if I log in and groupd needs mesmer, i just relog, but then commander will logg off and I dont have commander on my lvl 80 full exotic zerg ready mesmer and i need to relog again. While it takes time, this can ruin upcomming attack or defense as people dont see a dorito for a while.

2) Commander suppression – this is really awfull as I was suppressed many times just because i was just writing in chat where to go. This may be a part of a reason why commanders dont want to use ingame chat but rather 3rd party voice communication.

3) Squad UI is really needed with options for commander to invite or kick party members. Also squad members should be vissible on map with same color as commander badge has.

4) that leads to different colours of badges and maybe different icons? I dont want o have 80 colours and 80 symbols, but at least 5 colours and 5 symbols?

5) badge visibility – comamnder can choose if he is visible for everyone on map or only for those in squad- this will make guilds happy

6) squad limit – max 25 people in squad, more people in squad is not good as you would have your screen full of names if there will be some UI

7) commander badge not visible to enemy even in buff/condition bar if commander targeted

8) squad officer is a must

edit: not really to commander system but laso important: fix party ui as you can kick offline players in wvw

As I see it the main problem I have running as a commander is accurately keeping track of squads and groups. Since I cannot do that I have to run as a blob or zerg.

I would like to see three tiers of commander tags that can be chosen when a commander logs up.
Green Tag would be a group level tag
Red Tag would be a squad level tag
Blue Tag would be a map level tag

The Blue Tag would be able to see all Red Tags on the map and in a list form such as:
Red Name of Commander (20)
Red Name of Commander (15)
The number in the parenthesis is the number of people running in that squad.

Red Tag would be able to see all the Green Group Tags that are in his squad and in list form:
Green Name of Commander (5)
Green Name of Commander (4)
Green Name of Commander (3)
Green Name of Commander (3)
Only people in Groups could see that groups Green Tag Commander

Only people in Squads could see that squads Red Tag

People in a group and a squad would see their group commanders green tag and their squad commanders Red Tag.

Everybody could see the Map Blue commander tag.

Of course this would allow groups to run with a Green Tag and if they are not in a Squad they would be essentially anonymous as an individual havoc team that no-one could see except other group members.

This would work without the necessity of building a complex raid management system such as might be found on other games. This would allow for much better field management of personnel.

Later the ability to kick individuals or groups, or move players could be added.

I mostly play as a raidleader for medium size guild and I really think that WvW doesn’t have certain content/mechanics for this kind of groups. As said in previous posts, one of the greatest problems is the way you have to manage groups and players in raids. Commander mark is simple and effective way to show your allies where the leader is and it is somehow easy to spot and follow at battlefield but it has flaws:

My biggest problem with current functionality is that like everything else in WvW, it encourages to zerging. I don’t think that any upgrade to commander mark would completely fix that, but for every upgrade/fix you have to be careful not to make zerging any more beneficial! From my point of view I suspect that these problems originate from point in GW2’s development where ANet decided to simplify their base mechanics.

I personally think that there are few much needed upgrades for commander: some kind of progress/simple upgrades to commander and upgrades to commander mark visuals. The most important ones could be guild commander/closed squad, better ways to distinguish commanders and greater support for different kind of gameplays. In the spoiler are few ideas about possible commander rank upgrades.

In my examples I speak about widely suggested custom commander colours and pair it with squad wide map draw. Commander icons on map could also scale with the amount of players in commanders squad so other commanders would know roughly how many players other commanders have with them. (size, bronze/silver/golden edges etc) Idea in here is to give other commanders more information about other groups in map and make the communication easier.

As I talk from guild point of view the most important upgrade for me would be guild or closed commander mark. This upgrade would encourage to use commander mark even in smaller raids and might that way spread population on map. As part of this, it would be nice if players in squad would be marked in guild roster somehow and would have option “Join in WvW”. Atm when you log inside you might see that players are in WvW on some map, but you wouldn’t know if they have group up, what map they are on etc: simple and effective way to encourage joining WvW but offtopic.

Nike.2631:

I had three idea from my limited understanding as a person who just follows commanders around . (I don’t own one myself)

Tag Colors: It would be nice if after you own a tag ‘basic’ blue tag you could spend, say, 20g, to buy an additional color. If you made 5 more colors (red, orange, yellow, green, purple) available, and did NOT arrange them in a hierarchy (all 5 colors be come accessible at the same time rather than an ordered series of purchases), commanders could differentiate themselves better while you still get a little gold sinking, and having the complete array of colors would cost as much as a second tag.

Earned Tags: It would be cool to have earned tags use a different shape. I’d like to see black ‘Shield’ and white ‘Sword’ tags that are earned by completing enough defensive (shield) or offensive (sword) WvWvW achievements. This would give you declared offensive and defensive commanders who likely know their stuff considering how they got that tag. I’d avoid granting specialized tag shapes just for WvW experience (partially because its an undifferentiated blob of all activities and partially because you can buy it with laurels without actually WvW’ing…)

Limited Visibility: It would be nice if the commander could set their tag to be “Map wide”, “Guild Wide” or “Party Wide”. This would allow commanders to still direct traffic for smaller, focused groups without cluttering the display and to allow them to act with discretion when there are concerns of spies for other servers on the map.

All 3 of these, for sure.

Now to add some of my own:

- Bigger Icon – Allow players to change the size of the commander icon in their own UI, so that they can make it easier for them to see in big fights. Letting the individual player control this means they set it however -they- like and need.

- Squad Panel – (where commanders can see ALL people in their squad, in a condensed list format) – An example would be SWTOR’s Ops screen. An additional idea would be to have a Squad Layer show up on the Minimap/Regular Map (yellow dots maybe?) that lets the commander see who’s in his squad, and who is just following him. Better squad management is a must, so it really needs it’s own GUI panel. NOTE: Each player in the panel should also have their Class icon and # of supply next to their name on the list. Totals for players, supply, and other quick stats would be at the top/bottom. Hovering over a player name could optionally give the commander the ability to see that player’s skill bar layout. This gives commanders an instant way to check their squad’s composition, and adjust their tactics accordingly.

- Suppression – MUCH HIGHER Suppression threshold for Commanders. We need this badly. Commanding a group in WvW is fast and hectic, posting quickly and repeatedly is necessary, and suppression causes major headaches for every commander I know. Please fix this.

- Draw and Ping – GW1 style Drawing and Pinging on Minimap!!! Commanders should be able to do this for their squad, or even for the whole map (if qualified). This was a feature in GW1 that did get a bit of abuse, but it was super useful in showing people what you wanted them to do.

- Magic Flare – Commanders can fire beam of bright energy into the sky that is visible from across the map to friendly players. Should be on a very long cooldown to prevent spam, maybe 2-5 minutes or something.

- Lieutenant Tag – Commanders should be able to designate Lieutenants who can then do limited things like /.Supplyinfo, and even lead split-off groups for split team tactics. OR, LT tags can be purchased for, say, 25-50 Gold, and then a Lieutenant can tag up on the map and lead by example, when a Commander is not present. Lieutenants can then ‘attach’ their tag to that of a Commander, when they join the squad. LT tags should also be able to have colors assigned, so that Commanders can keep them organized within their squad.

This is just the start of my ideas. I will post more as I come up with them.

Ok, I’m a 99% PvE player who mostly deals with Commanders in large scale PvE events, but here are my suggestions on the Commander system:

1. Make it Account based. I have eight level 80s, and play all of them. I could afford a single Commander badge, but not eight of them, and I would want it available for at least several of my characters. As it stands, I consider myself a PvE “lay commander,” when there are no active Commanders around do my best to coordinate what players are available, but it would be nice to have the beacon.

2. Color shifting. There needs to be a way to differentiate between two or more commanders at a glance, and being able to easily shift between 3-5 different tag colors would be a great way to do this.

3. Lieutenants. Give commanders an ability to promote normal players to a temporary LT status. This would give them their own map icon, a little circle or something that everyone could see in a color that matches the Commander, and the Commander could type somewhere a short command for them that would be visible if you moused them over. The idea here is that it would allow them to delegate tasks that need more than one player but less than a full zerg, like repairing a structure or guarding a choke point.

A Commander could click on another player, promote him to LT, type “repair walls” into the interface, and then run off with most of the players to the next high profile area, while that player would perform that task, and his map indicator would let anyone know what he was up to, and when the task is complete, he could turn off the beacon and go about his business. Of course this wouldn’t obligate anyone to anything, it’d just be a suggestion that would make for easier coordination of smaller tasks.

Target & Location Hologram Flashers – Commanders should have the ability to flash a target location by clicking somewhere in the world they want people to go/be/see. Like some kind of hologram symbol that flashes down from the sky onto the ground pointing to the place clicked on the ground. Same for calling a target on an object, where there should be some kind of big flashy hologram target symbol that surrounds and points to the object targeted, easily distinguishing it no matter where you are nearby. YES, this should be Spammable, so that people can easily follow the Location and Target and to avoid Lag concerns. It should be BIG, easy to see, and unmistakable.

More intensive system

A seperate UI for the commander tag is really needed. a small toolbar would be great. While the chat commands for supply and squad info are nice unless someone tells you about them, you may never know that they exist. Other abilities could be added to this bar.
Implementation: A small toolbar(perhaps above the buff/debuff area) that contains buttons for things like /supplyinfo could be placed. Additional tools could also be added like command flags that can only be seen by the squad(more reason to actually join a commanders squad)
Command flags: These would be drag and drop items that a commander could place to direct his forces without relying on them all be in a voice chat with them. I see 3 obvious ones that could be used. Attack, Defend/hold, and Don’t attack. The Don’t Attack may seem odd until you realize how often a commander doesn’t want anyone to PvDoor or to form a temporary alliance to take out a stronger common foe.

If these flags are added they really need to be made squad view only to avoid confusion with several commanders or trolling

While I would love to get a lot of the proposals so far realized, different colours for tags would go a long way already. I vote for multicolor markers now

I agree with some posts here and I feel the biggest issues are earning and distinction, especially in WvW. I don’t think commander tags as they are should be removed (but after the new system is implemented, if it is different enough, I think there should be a time frame where people can request gold refunds). I think an easy way to implement earning, apart from relevant achievements, is to have community approval. If enough of a community votes that x is a good y type of commander, they should get the y tag, and if a commander who was already nominated by the community approves of this person, their opinion should count for more. I think a peer approval system is less easy to abuse than a gold based system. But this is assuming the current commander tag could still exist for spontaneous group-ups, because that’s still important.

For distinction, apart from the colour/shape suggestion, this “lieutenant” suggestion is good — a second tier of command. I believe it should be tied to commanders and assigned by them. I also think commanders should be able to assign their squad members to different lieutenants, and then those squad members can only see the tag of their lieutenant (not omitting the other tags will make people following them more difficult, since they’ll follow who they feel like). I think bearing in mind the zerg mentality is important. People see a tag, they go to it, they kill for loot. Some people are interested in tactics, some aren’t. The system should try to allow the commanding people to organize these people that aren’t thinking tactically but just blindly following. It also needs to be quick and easy — I’d have each squad member represented by a dot, rather than their large portrait, and I think the commander should be able to drag a selection and right click to assign/de-assign. I’ll make a crude mock-up to show what I mean. I also think a commander should be able to click someone individually and assign them, if they want a specific person to a specific lieutenant, and also choose which lieutenant people who join go under by default.

Here are what I feel a commander needs:

A WvW Commander bar with:

• Auto-supply count
• Larger supply count radius
• Ability to have commander macros (such as /say Stack on Me!)
• No chat disabling (not everyone knows how to join a squad – and joining via map is broken)
• Tag colors as well as having it display the guild of that commander
• Invisible tag to hide from trolls (yes, there are a lot)
• Siegelocking non-commanders, again an anti-troll system (most trolls do not have a tag)
• Count of players in squad, in map
• Announcements to squad that pop up in the middle of the screen

A PvE Commander bar with:

• Teleport all SQUAD members in map to him (if out of combat) 10min cooldown – yes it can be exploited, but its PvE so who cares if someone gets a free teleport point once in a while.
• Ability to have commander macros (such as /say Stack on Me!)
• Announcements to squad members
• No chat disabling (not everyone knows how to join a squad – and joining via map is broken)
• Count of players in squad, in map

Generally:

• Account-bound tag so not to lock people to 1 character – the gear does that well enough
• Party configuration. The commander can set players into parties for synergy in both PvE and WvW.

DevonCarver.5370:

Okay, so before we get too far into this discussion, here is something else to think about:
Would you rather see us make some number of small improvements in the short term and larger changes long term or just tear the whole thing down and start from scratch?

To be a bit more specific, we could probably do something like multicolor markers without too much work, although it is not a given, but that would likely be the extent of things for a long period of time.

If an a complete scrapping and overhaul is necessary i would personally like to see small quick changes added to the current system like the multicolor/multishape tags added now. But the caveat of that being things that can translate into the new system.

As nice as some short term fixes would be if it is decided a new system needs to be Built from the ground up, i would hate to see time used up to implement something that can’t be translated into the new system. That just delays the new system that much longer.

DevonCarver.5370:

Okay, so before we get too far into this discussion, here is something else to think about:
Would you rather see us make some number of small improvements in the short term and larger changes long term or just tear the whole thing down and start from scratch?

To be a bit more specific, we could probably do something like multicolor markers without too much work, although it is not a given, but that would likely be the extent of things for a long period of time.

Let me prioritize things

Things We Need Right Now:

- Color-Changeable Commander Tags.
– Bigger/Easier-to-see/Re-sizable Commander Tags.
– Text Suppression threshold greatly increased.
– Greatly Increased radius for SupplyInfo command.

These all should be quite easy to implement very quickly within the current system, and easily translate to new systems later.

All the other items can be built later, but this stuff right here is absolutely necessary to solve major problems we are currently having.

ptitminou.6489:

• Siegelocking non-commanders, again an anti-troll system (most trolls do not have a tag)

My server used to have 3 of them that would go around tossing junk seige everywhere especially on things our commander wanted built to waste supply and running with a tag up in hopes of getting people not in ts3/squad to follow them off cliffs and such. they would use a spectral bungie and watch the rest go splat.

Here Is one of my thoughts in regards to improving the commander functionality in WvW. You can add all sorts of items but if your commanders don’t know how to use them it is difficult to make the time spent worthwhile.

A. In answer to the concern over unknowledgeable commanders, I do not think we should start segregating who is a new commander vs. who is an experienced commander, you would be making it hard for newer commanders (who may be good or bad) to get the experience needed commanding.

However, the point that a commander is unknowledgeable is a good point. There is currently no real guide or training for commanders other then word of mouth. I suggest as a solution this:

Upon acquiring the book which you have spent 100g to become a commander, you can not create a squad until you have completed an instance that shows you how to do certain things within the commander tag. That way as you add more functionality new commanders are brought up to date. Once the instance is done a follow-up mail would be sent congratulating you(perhaps even giving some small reward?), and giving you a brief command overview once more.

Secondly, in regards to tags. Many are asking for colors to identify a specific commander to their group.

B. I would suggest a setting that allows you select one or all of the following: turn invisible to all but squad/Guild/other commanders.

C. I would also suggest a guild/or individual has an option to purchase an upgrade on their commander tags (either thru guild discovery or perhaps a gold/gem option) that actually represents their guild emblem. This would allow other commanders to know who and what guild is on a map.

DevonCarver.5370:

Okay, so before we get too far into this discussion, here is something else to think about:
Would you rather see us make some number of small improvements in the short term and larger changes long term or just tear the whole thing down and start from scratch?

To be a bit more specific, we could probably do something like multicolor markers without too much work, although it is not a given, but that would likely be the extent of things for a long period of time.

I really don’t want to see a quick, half-hearted fix be used to justify a huge delay in a more complete meaningful fix.

If you see the current version as only doing one thing well, and that one thing is easily port’d forward to the next major revision, lets move on so that the role and duty of serving as a Commander is awesome.

Daniel.5463:

Hello Anet and fellow gw2 players.

First of all i have to clarify that I’m mainly running with a commander and only occasionally do the leading part myself, though I’m playing the game since release and have the knowhow. Due to this I want to add some suggestions.

1. Invisible Commander
Make it possible for the Commander symbol invisible to all players not in the squad. This would create the possibility for a guild grp to activate their commander without stealing the players from the main commander of the map. (other commanders can see him though you can also disable that or add an option to disable it)

2. Close Squad
Grant the Commander the option to close his squad, making it impossible for ppl to enter who he or someone from the squad doesnt invite

3. Squad kick
Make it possible to kick players from his squad. And add the ability to kick all Squadmembers who’re not on the map.

4. Squad Officer
Add the possibility to promote someone in the Squad to an officer, granting him the possibility to kick members from the squad and put symbols and paint on minimap. would make it easier for scouts to mark a position. (could also be added the possibility to add an extra symbol for all officers of the squad on the minimap, but this could make some trouble)

With those 4 points it would be a lot nicer for guild grps to use commander on wvw maps without being inconvenient to the main commander on that map.

5. Commander Buff Bar
This is the main downside of Commander currently, please make it work like the outnumbered buff in wvw! An enemy shouldn’t be able to tell who’s the commander just by looking at his buffbar. This can make differences in many fights, due to each commander being unable to immediatly tell who’s the commander.

6. Commander visibility
I’m not sure if this here is the correct place to post it, but i think it should be fine. If the Commander is a small character (like asura) and stand inside of a big one (like norn or charr) often commander symbol disapears behind the bigger model. Although many names ontop the commander symbol let it disapear too. this destroys the functionality of it, cause noone is able to tell where he is.

7. Commander on the sides
Sry for the naming, I just didn’t knew how to name it. in short it should display a commander arrow on the edge of your screen if the commander in whom’s squad you’re isnt on your screen. this would improve the ability for squadmembers to follow their commander. (for example commander is on the left side then on the left side in the direction where your commander is the mark is placed)

8. Follow commander reward
There should be a reward for players added who correctly follow their commander. for example, for each squadmember who completes the same achievement the reward should increase slightly. (if the squad has 50 members and 30 of those complete an event, those 30 should get a small reward for completing an event with 30ppl of the squad) this would encourage joining a squad from an commander. although it might help stopping ppl from having bad beaviour against a commander, cause if they’re blocked they can’t join his squad.

9. Squad limit
Increase the Squad limit that it’s impossible that not all ppl from a map can join it. For example increase it to 100.

Thank you for reading my post, I hope it will help you making an even better game.

All of these are great ideas! To expand on the suggestions and maybe provide some reasonings for it (from my perspective), here are some thoughts. An issue we have sometimes on my own server is tag watching. Any person(s) can have an account on an enemy territory, and report back to their friends where exactly the commanders are moving. By allowing the commander to have a hidden tag with control who see’s his/her movement, this greatly reduces that risk if the effort is put forth. The Squad officer is nice so that the commander can pass off the responsibilities and focus on commanding.

One idea i think would be really cool would be for there to be a blue collumn of light above the commander’s head to help visibility of the commander, so that you don’t have to be scanning your entire screen to see the blue dorito over the smallest sized asuran commander, for example.

PS huge shout out for fixing skill lag, introducing the OS, and upcoming edge of the mists, and for addressing the que/taxi problem! This is another way of making this game go from great to epic!

Keep up the good work!

Nightshade.2570:

C. I would also suggest a guild/or individual has an option to purchase an upgrade on their commander tags (either thru guild discovery or perhaps a gold/gem option) that actually represents their guild emblem. This would allow other commanders to know who and what guild is on a map.

Yes please. This would be very nice.

Teraphas.6210:

ptitminou.6489:

• Siegelocking non-commanders, again an anti-troll system (most trolls do not have a tag)

My server used to have 3 of them that would go around tossing junk seige everywhere especially on things our commander wanted built to waste supply and running with a tag up in hopes of getting people not in ts3/squad to follow them off cliffs and such. they would use a spectral bungie and watch the rest go splat.

I jump people off a cliff, then say, “If you were in TS, you would have known that was going to happen. Join us on: xx.xx.xx.xx:xxxx”

DevonCarver.5370:

Would you rather see us make some number of small improvements in the short term and larger changes long term or just tear the whole thing down and start from scratch?

The only part that I feel needs to be torn down and restarted from scratch is the acquisition (and there’s not much to tear down there). The rest of the commander system works; it’s a good foundation to build on, the problem is just that there’s not much more than a foundation.

I would like to see the following quick changes:
1) Allow different color tags
2) Allow visability toggle (Off, Party, Squad, Guild, All).
-expanding on 2, visible party only would allow parties to designate a party leader to follow, squad only would allow commander to ‘tag off’ and remain visible to his/her squad. Which would fix part of the problem with multiple commander tags and the squad system is if your commander needs to tag down for a bit then the entire squad needs to rejoin the squad after s/he tags back up.
also expanding on 2, if you select an option it includes all lower options. So if you are visible to your guild, your party members and squad members can also see your tag.

Make.

It.

Account bound.

In PvE, at the very least, there is absolutely no good reason why it should not be account-bound. My commander tag is primarily for PvE use, leading guild events and the like (I do not use it in WvW because of how abusive players can be). This locks me to my mesmer, though I have 7 other level 80s that are fully geared up. Sometimes I’d like to play other characters, but I am unable to do so because it’s mesmer that has the commander tag.

Just. Please. Account-bound commander tags.

Most of the other suggestions are good ones; the ones I particularly like are the ability to set different colors (this is something that could be useful in both WvW and PvE), as well as more squad-control abilities (being able to invite people to squad, kick people, etc).

There are several features I would appreciate to have in WvW and PvE:

1. Different colors for the tags:
   This would simplify the organisation if several independent squads are on the same map.
2. Sub-commanders: sometimes the commander has to divide the forces into smaller units to give them special tasks. This would facilitate to do this and to keep track of the different units. Players can follow the sub-commanders to fulfill the duties.
3. invisible tag: This would help guild-driven squads a lot. Outsiders are nozt confused by guild commanders and guilds are not confused by palyers follow them but not connected to the guild.

There are also features needed especially for WvW:

1. Commander interface: It should provide the (sub-)commanders important details about the squad like total amount of supplies and blueprints including traps. It would also appreciate an option to visualise where the members of my squad are. A button would be nice for the map to switch through different options for the whole squad and subunits led by a certain sub-commander.
2. Tag for scouts: This would make it much easier for me to see where my scouts are. maybe you could provide a certain command for the chat that scout can easily report important messages to the commander and the tag of the related scout is blinking.
3. More functions for the commander to maintain the squad like closing it or kick some people. More symbols i can put on the map would be also nice to direct the subunits.

Ok, radical thought.

If we were to start over on the whole concept of commanders, then you could~

Make “Commander” a skill you build up with WvW ranks, like any other WvW skill.

It allows you introduce a clear hierarchy of commander abilities/effects and creates room for future expansion. Maybe like extra supply it costs a fairly large number of points per pip, but each rank gives you progressively more of the features being discussed here. Now those features can be mechanically strong, because the player is paying a steep opportunity cost to access them. As a follower, you would now know that that person wants to serve as a commander badly enough that they bought the tag with ranks instead of gold.

It also has the advantage that with Account-wide WvW Exp, the player can choose which of their characters to make commanders, and which will spend their points elsewhere.

^ that removes pve players from being able to use the system, thus it doesn’t seem to be an ideal solution.

I would like the commanders to be able to put down a marker on the map. This could multi colored rays of light (Or glowing banners, just to make it more immersive) going down different places. This will make it easy for a large groupes to know when to go to where and be able to make tactics using them.

And then there is the multi colored commander tags which would help a great deal.

So I guess this requires a “start from scratch” This is my thoughts on commander tags.

I’m unclear on how “Spend 100g” does a better job of identifying good commanders… or of filtering out jerks who just want to spam the map with ‘look at me’ icons.

As a cost, 100g doesn’t reflect what’s being bought. Spending WvW ranks on a Commander Skill would mean that the player wants to direct traffic enough that they’re giving up all those other things they could have bought to further their own personal glory. After paying a price like that, its appropriate they get some tools worthy of their commitment.

It also creates a working distinction between the ‘officers’ who blew 150+ ranks on their command-tools, and the ‘frontliners’ who spent that 150+ ranks on the offensive or defensive capstones that give them huge stat bonuses. With Account-shared WvW ranks, now one player can set up separate characters for both roles.

In my experience, the commander tag is useful for one thing: creating a zerg.

Otherwise, it only indicates that someone paid gold to have a blue taco over their head. It is not earned thru good gameplay or approbation from other players, and is thus meaningless.

As a player, I have no idea how competent a commander is, if they are competent at all. Unfortunately, most players will follow the taco, reinforcing zerg gameplay.

Perhaps give us a different tag in PvE that is earned from guild participation?

Draygo.9473:

^ that removes pve players from being able to use the system, thus it doesn’t seem to be an ideal solution.

I tend to think that WvW and PvE tags can and should be separated. While they both help with herding cats, the reasons for doing so are very, very different between the two play environments.

What if all basic commander tags stay the same currently, and you can earn WvW additions to the tag (rather than paying for them or being given them outright). You can earn shapes based on rank, i.e. the tag changes shape based on rank, at say every 50 or 100 rank points. And colors can be gained through the AP system. Commander reward chests to unlock colors can be based on completing achievements, which can be back filled like when the AP reward system was implemented. This would allow a generally acceptable delineation between PvE and WvW as well as provide important “at a glance” type information to those in WvW. It wouldn’t preclude those who generally do PvE from being a commander in WvW, it would provide a way to acknowledge those that have done a lot in WvW, and it would give variation to the current tag system.

First off, this post is from the perspective of commanders in PvE only.
I’ll use a format of listing perceived issues in bold, followed by suggestions in italics.

Anonymous Blue Doritos
In PvE, for the most part, you just see the doritos, and get very little name recognition. Also, if you are trying to follow a specific commander, it can be difficult to spot which one is which.

Put Guild Logo in Symbol:
Make the upper diamond of the symbol a small version of the person’s guild logo. Keep the lower blue chevron as a way to denote Commander.

Hard to Form Squads
Forming a squad today involves each and every person to click on the command, and select “Join Squad”. End result: pretty much no one does this.

Make Squad Membership Party Based
If one person in the party follows a commander, the entire party does. This makes it quick and easy to add large numbers.

Commander Can Invite to Squad
Much like inviting yourself to join a party, a commander can send an invite to a person/party, which they can accept/refuse

Where’s My Squad?
In many Guild Missions, and even in various open world zergs, there’s often the question of “Is everyone here?”, where the consequences of getting the answer wrong means someone gets locked out of a puzzle stage, misses a bounty, falls hopefully behind the zerg, etc. Currently, the only real solution my guild has for this is for everyone to be on VoIP, and we ask, pause, and hope someone shouted if they needed to.

Squad Members are Visible on MiniMap
You get party members in light blue. Make squad members light yellow or something.

/squaddistance command
Prints a quick table of squad members within 1200in, 3600in, further, but same map, same map, but overflow, off map. If fewer than 3 people are in a category, list the names. (this option should be much less bandwidth than the show on map option)

Overflows
You get your squad formed up in the Tower of Nightmares, you storm through part of the map, and then parties go in to tackle the instance… and all come out in different overflow. Cue party shuffling to reform the squad.

When selecting overflows, prefer ones with squadmates
Reuse the existing logic for keeping parties together, only with squad mates as well (goes well with the “join squad as party” option above).

Add “Join Commander’s Overflow” command
Same as attempting to join a party member, only attempting to join your commander.

Split Tactics
Many tasks which commanders could be useful for require the commander to split up their force and pursue multiple objectives at once. Currently, the only real support for this is the ability to place the Attack/Defend/Rally markers.

Party Based Lieutenants
For each party in the squad, let them elect someone to act as a lieutenant, and will show up on all squad member’s maps. Go ahead and set a limit of 5 lieutenants in the squad.

Give each Lieutenant a Color
When a lieutenant is elects, they can pick from a short list of colors, and become the “Red Lieutenant”, and everyone in their party is part of the “Red Squad” (with a UI tag somewhere showing this)

Each Lieutenant gets a squad wide Map Marker
This would be separate from their personal marker. The commander can move the marker, with a system much like the attack/defend marker selections. You can then do away with the attack/defend/rally markers.

Special Map Markers are Placeable on Minimap
Zooming out to the world map is a recipe for death in the middle of battle.

Expensive and Character Bound
Currently, I have to pick one class to play all guild missions and open zerging on, despite having eight characters I enjoy. But I’m not paying 800g.
However, I understand the desire to be able to establish reputation with a given commander name.

Ability to Impersonate another character on your account
Only one character on account needs to read the manual, but any other can form a squad. When they do, their name will become that of the Commander, only with the name in quotes.

Guild only Commanderships
A guild can spend influence in the Art of War line, and unlock the ability to have anyone with a new rank permission become a commander. However, squads formed with this privilege will only be visible to members of the guild, and only guild mates can join.

As for the “quick fix vs overhaul” question, I’d prefer to see a launch and iterate process, where the capabilities of a commander evolves over time, as with experience with changes informing the next iteration.
The danger with complete overhaul is that it could easy suffer some hidden fatal flaw.

1. Different colored tags
This should not be an additional purchase, & it should be a default system.
~Commander enters map that has no tag currently on it, pops his tag, & the default blue tag appears.
~2nd Commander enters the map, pops his tag, & the 2nd default colored tag appears.
We should not be able to choose the tag color because many people will want the same colors to represent them, which defeats the whole purpose of the system. (just don’t make a pink tag )
2. Greatly increase supply check radius
3. Give us an option for the tag to only be seen by guild members. Or as someone already stated, Party/Guild/Map option would be awesome!
4. Make Commander ‘buff’ work like the outnumbered buff. Invisible to enemies (ty Daniel)
5. Increase the squad limit
6. Allow only commanders to have access to using team chat
7. “Text suppression threshold greatly increased”

“Would you rather see us make some number of small improvements in the short term and larger changes long term or just tear the whole thing down and start from scratch?”

Small – short term plz! We’ve been waiting SO long for a fix!

First of all I never really understood the idea behind just putting commander tags behind a wall of 100g. IMO it would be a lot better if you actually acquired it by proving yourself in WvW for example (badges of honor is the first thing that comes to mind). As it is now the commander system is fairly limited and not all that great, sure you have a marker that shows where the commander is but that is all. I think a big overhaul might be in order, if we can get to an understanding of what functionality is needed. I myself am not a commander so I just speak from the follower side of things.

What we need are different colors/emblems for the commander so it is easyer to know which is which. These should be obtained by actually achiieving things in their field, for example WvW commanders have different tiers and colors based on what they have captured in WvW, but also PvE commanders for fighting in world bosses like tequatl or scarlet invasions. This so we can see how experienced they are.