Guild Wars 2

ptitminou.6489:

• Ability to have commander macros (such as /say Stack on Me!)
• Tag colors as well as having it display the guild of that commander
• Announcements to squad that pop up in the middle of the screen

As a player I would love to see these things implemented. It will help so much in getting information from the commander that can be lost in spam map/team chat.

I think the announcements should allow the player to toggle “receive commander announcements” because some players might find them annoying if they are not part of the commanders squad (As some people like to squad with friends only)

of course coloured tags is a no-brainer and should of been implemented at launch.

I think everything has been said already. I would still like to add two things that I didn’t see (sorry if it was said and I missed it).

When buying a commander tag, it would be nice to have a special stash for siege. I have multiple stacks of most siege equipement and it’s taking a lot of space in my inventory, so I’m being punished for wanting to be a good commander and have a lot of siege ready. Not only that, but an easier way to access your siege equipement. Right now you have to open your inventory, look through your it for the siege you want, double click the siege, close your inventory, and then lay the siege. That’s a lot of unecessary actions when under pressure. There are probably multiple ways to solve this problem, like having a special commander UI with siege icons you can click on to lay down. I was thinking maybe have a unique skill called “Lay Siege” or something that would act kind of like a bundle, but your skills would be replaced by siege equipement. So all I would have to do is use “Lay Siege” then press the key that corresponds to the siege I want.

Second thing is, having different commander icons is great, but I think your icon should represent your experience as a commander/experience in WvW. So maybe have different icons depending on your WvW rank or something. On a side note, it would be awesome to have an icon display besides your name that would represent your rank, because right now there’s no way to know what rank your allies are.

So many great suggestions here, I just want to show my support for many of them.
Great Ideas (imo):

• Varying visibility for tag
• Changes to tag depending on WvW Rank (not dependent on Rank though, we need our PvE doritos!
• Larger supply count radius
• Increase in squad size and increased usefulness of squad system (buff sounds cool)
• Squads post-able in LFG
• TURN OFF THE VISIBILITY OF THE BUFF TO ENEMIES (srsly, even I’m guilty of trying to get people to focus them down)
  Bad Ideas (imo):
• Power to remove other peep’s land claims
• Large map shout-out that overwhelms the screen
• Players voting on allowing someone to tag up or not (large guilds shutting out others)
• Being only ones allowed to throw down siege
• PvE Teleport to commander
  Iffy ideas, can’t really make up mind on them:
• Account-Bound Commander Tag: I don’t know why I feel this is odd. I have a tag on a toon but rarely use it because I also do WvW on other toons (love the account bound WxP upcoming change btw!!!!) but it just feels weird. Forget I said anything.
• Guild Only Tag: Again, just feels weird. If people see you running around with a group they’ll join you, visible or not visible tag. (By this I mean the chance to buy a tag solely for guildmates to see, option to flip between this and original would be nice)

I’m very late to this post but if there was one thing I could have I would love a different text color as a commander. When I’m not on a VOIP it is extremely hard to command well while typing because people just can’t see what I say over what others say. Just a nice neon green, or really any other color that stood out would be such a huge improvement while commanding.

As a PuG commander in both PvE and WvW, I would like to present a few extra “ranks” or “tiers” of commanders which would better represent the ideas of different colored tags that most people here have posted.

• Rank 1 – The current Blue Dorito.
  The existing Blue Commander can stay as a 100g bought item, just to serve as a very quick display that this individual has “made a down-payment” per-se and is invested into learning how to lead players in Guild Wars 2. This also serves as a quick alternative to guilds either in PvE or WvW who simply use commander tags just as a visual gathering point.

• Only after achieving rank 1 can players branch into the new ranks of commanders.

• Rank 2a – PvE Commander – Red Dorito.
  This branch of commander could be locked behind a requirement such as “Kill Tequatl X number of times” or “Stop Y number of Scarlet invasions.” It would show to identify the individuals who have experience in these large open-world encounters that have begun to creep into the game through the Living Story. Alternatively, a crazy Laurel cost could be assigned to obtain the Red Dorito, after already obtaining the Blue Dorito. I don’t prefer this method, as a player could obtain Laurels through other methods and not truly understand large-scale PvE.

• I tried to imagine different types of Commanders in WvW as Prestige Classes in Dungeons and Dragons. Each commander exhibits an individual area where they are skilled in. One guy may know all of the best treb spots in the Borderlands, but he doesn’t have the charisma or the tact to lead a zergbust group in the open-field. Occasionally, commanders are skilled in multiple areas of the map and the play of WvW, but most often, the current situation usually calls for different styled approaches of either attack or defend.

• Rank 2b | Defender – WvW Commander – Orange Dorito.
  Requirement – Defend X number of objectives successfully (defense event completions as recognized by the event tracker). This requirement could be further broken down into towers, keeps, and Stonemist. The idea is that when a Commander turns on his Orange tag, or an orange tag calls for supply on a given location, this guy knows something’s coming and he’s already got a plan to deal with it. Granted, his plan may not work, but he’s showing the initiative to either prepare before the threat arrives, or to shore up defenses early to prepare for threats in the distant future.

• Rank 2c | Assaulter – WvW Commander – Yellow Dorito.
  Requirement – Successfully capture X number of objectives (X should be higher than that of defender, given the ability to quick-flip tier 1 towers and even keeps). Once again, this can be split to require X towers, Y keeps, and/or Z Stonemists. When this commander says, “We’re taking Hills Keep,” they mean to put a decent effort in doing so, even if current map numbers are low. These are the people who not only enjoy speaking up, directing map flow, and leading zergs to capture objectives, but excel at doing so!

• Rank 2d | Disrupter/Skirmisher – WvW Commander – Purple Dorito.
  Requirement – Kill X Dolyaks and/or Sentries, Capture Y camps, and destroy Z pieces of siege. Destroy Z pieces of siege could be swapped out for “Earn Borderlands Bloodlust X times.” (tracked by event completion of ruins capture/defense and successful claim of Borderlands Buff).

• These are the havoc specialists who operate in enemy territory to cause disruption and chaos behind enemy lines. I know it’s easy to solo a camp or take a small group and just circle the Borderlands capping camps, but imagine this…a dedicated disruption specialist leading a squad of people to capture each Borderland camp simultaneously!

• Without a scout of some sort in the area, it might as well look like a large guild is doing a supply run to prepare for some golem rushes or build all the trebuchets in the world to bomb Stonemist. That’s the idea behind the Disruption commander. This is a person who can get into enemy territory, get the job done fast, and perhaps even sow a little discord with regards to how momentum is flowing across the map. Who knows, that simultaneous cap stunt may pull a 50+man guild off of EB to prepare for the “inevitable attack” on Bay.

• Acquiring any 2 of the above WvW commander branch ranks unlocks Silver Dorito (perhaps even a title, something like General of the Mists)

• Acquiring all 3 of the above WvW commander branch ranks unlocks Gold or Diamond Dorito, with possible title of Grand Marshal of the Mists.

Anyway, whether in a hierarchy of tiers, or just a player-designated role within the existing commander system, I highly suggest some way to show the different strengths and merits that all of the existing WvW commanders have. Thanks for reading this post and best of luck to Arenanet with improving the commander system!

Clint

RiWiJo.7502:

As I see it the main problem I have running as a commander is accurately keeping track of squads and groups. Since I cannot do that I have to run as a blob or zerg.

I would like to see three tiers of commander tags that can be chosen when a commander logs up.
Green Tag would be a group level tag
Red Tag would be a squad level tag
Blue Tag would be a map level tag

The Blue Tag would be able to see all Red Tags on the map and in a list form such as:
Red Name of Commander (20)
Red Name of Commander (15)
The number in the parenthesis is the number of people running in that squad.

Red Tag would be able to see all the Green Group Tags that are in his squad and in list form:
Green Name of Commander (5)
Green Name of Commander (4)
Green Name of Commander (3)
Green Name of Commander (3)
Only people in Groups could see that groups Green Tag Commander

Only people in Squads could see that squads Red Tag

People in a group and a squad would see their group commanders green tag and their squad commanders Red Tag.

Everybody could see the Map Blue commander tag.

Of course this would allow groups to run with a Green Tag and if they are not in a Squad they would be essentially anonymous as an individual havoc team that no-one could see except other group members.

This would work without the necessity of building a complex raid management system such as might be found on other games. This would allow for much better field management of personnel.

Later the ability to kick individuals or groups, or move players could be added.

I think this is the best thought out system for differentiating commanders, I give it a big +1. One additional tag I would add is a guild leader tag that just comes free by virtue of being a guild leader. Only actively representing guild members would be able to see it.

On a different note, what do you all think of this idea:
When the winning server in a match-up achieves a point total equal to the sum of the point totals of the two losing servers, a new pane appears in the wvw tab where 10 commanders from each of the losing servers can vote to form an alliance. If the vote carries, those two servers’ colors would merge, they would appear as allies to each other, and their waypoints and siege would become available to each other.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

A lot of awesome ideas here are some questions I’ve been wondering about.

How often do people actually join squads and use the features that are there? (4 different way point markers, /supplyinfo). What would make you join squads more?

The markers take too long to set up and aren’t clear enough. I join them to not see other commanders that are nearby. Supplyinfo, and thanks for that, is not squad based. What would make me join squads more is maybe a commander bonus, seeing a sub-commander to follow incase the main one lags out/gets killed/gets pushed off a ledge.

Also, an easier way than having to try to click the right character, right click, join squad. Perhaps a small window that lists the commanders nearby, or in the map, and being able to join squad from there.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

How much is spies a problem with commander system?

HUGE – And I play on Bronze tier, I cannot imagine how big a problem it is in silver and gold. It’s very sad that we get countered non-stop while tagged, but all of a sudden, running tagless gets you almost no resistence and/or it arrives much to late. I suspect an actual hack may be at work when that happens.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Should the commander icon be shown above the commanders head to the commander?

Why not, with the possibility to turn that off you can’t go wrong. But it would help avoid confusion, like sometimes thinking you’re not tagged when you are.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Should we allow a WvW upgrade to see enemy commanders (not on the map just on screen) ?

Won’t that make commanders run tagless at every attack? I think it would be a terrible idea. It would be better to have a warning system instead of a WP that lets you know when an outer wall or gate is taken out or taken down to a certain threshhold (to prevent taps)

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

How much is spies a problem with commander system?

HUGE – And I play on Bronze tier, I cannot imagine how big a problem it is in silver and gold. It’s very sad that we get countered non-stop while tagged, but all of a sudden, running tagless gets you almost no resistence and/or it arrives much to late. I suspect an actual hack may be at work when that happens.

The issue you’re having is because currently players from other servers can join your commanders squad (so they know exactly where you are at all times)

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

A lot of awesome ideas here.

Here are some questions I’ve been wondering about.

How often do people actually join squads and use the features that are there? (4 different way point markers, /supplyinfo). What would make you join squads more?

How much is spies a problem with commander system?

Should the commander icon be shown above the commanders head to the commander?

Should we allow a WvW upgrade to see enemy commanders (not on the map just on screen) ?

I know that for guild runs if we have more than 3 groups running we join squad on our driver in WVW. This way we don’t see other commanders and our driver has our supply info. This of course would be easier with a guild tag that is only visible to specific guild. Still its a good thing for a commander to have info on supply and have squad chat. Most guild groups that run with a tag join their own squad. Also I know that many pug players join squad. I would recommend a sort of magic find buff like +10 or so for joining a squad. Will get people to join if they are already on a commander. Will need to be close to your commander though.

Spying is a problem. As is supply trolling. But I don’t think you can deal with it in game. A spy will still find a way to scout out a commander, and hiding them would be difficult for new players and pve players to follow. Make an option to only have it visible in a radius/in a guild/map wide?

Don’t understand your third question. Do you mean to make the taco more visible?
It might be good. Or might be a bit annoying. In most cases you don’t want players to blindly follow an icon. I think a ray of light coming down would be nice. Or some aura thing.

I don’t think making commanders visible to the enemy is a good idea. But maybe make a scout tree in wvw ranks and make it an ability for scouts to buy with wvw ranks. This way a scout can call an enemy commander and he/she can be targeted.

Cheers

The current squad perks are very minimal, Izzy, with only /supplyinfo being used most of the time.

The markers are a neat concept, but as mentioned by ptitminou, they take too much time in the heat of battle. If the markers could be set up within the mini-map, without having to go to the world map, that’d be a big help. Perhaps we could even establish hotkeys for each marker? (Right click=display dropdown window for marker selection. Shift+Right Click=Attack Objective. Alt+Right Click=Defend Objective. Ctrl+Right Click=Stack Here/Form Here)

Also, if squads keep the current limit of 20, I definitely feel some UI element of just a player’s name and their health bar for the commander to see each person in the squad would go a long way. Of course, additional elements like active buffs could be considered, but I’d be concerned with UI overload.

Just a framed window of up to 20 bars (resizeable and able to be moved anywhere on the screen if possible) that uses the current simple party UI would be ideal.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

A lot of awesome ideas here.

Here are some questions I’ve been wondering about.

How often do people actually join squads and use the features that are there? (4 different way point markers, /supplyinfo). What would make you join squads more?

How much is spies a problem with commander system?

Should the commander icon be shown above the commanders head to the commander?

Should we allow a WvW upgrade to see enemy commanders (not on the map just on screen) ?

I’ve been commanding near daily in Crystal Desert for about three months now and I have never used the way point markers, frequently used supply info, and used squads once just to try it out.

In Crystal Desert spies don’t seem to be that big of a problem, while supply trolling is a huge one.

Personally I’m impartial to having a tag over my head because most of the time when running with guildies there is a target anyways.

If this upgrade were to happen it would mean that commanders would no longer lead from the front line but instead from the back as they would be heavily focused. As a commander who loves to lead the charge I don’t like this concept.

another idea is a commander leveling system, like the wxp leveling system but specific for commanders and they can give buffs to near by allies like magic find, gold find, etc and maybe even integrate guild buffs into this like +5 supply and +10% player (not sure if this would be balanced, but it would give players a lot more reason to follow the commander), i think this would be a great reason for more people to tag up and would also help let other players know exactly how experienced at wvw commanding they are.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

A lot of awesome ideas here.

Here are some questions I’ve been wondering about.

How often do people actually join squads and use the features that are there? (4 different way point markers, /supplyinfo). What would make you join squads more?

How much is spies a problem with commander system?

Should the commander icon be shown above the commanders head to the commander?

Should we allow a WvW upgrade to see enemy commanders (not on the map just on screen) ?

In my opinion the markers need to be in world not just on the map like beams of light or something and Joining squad does not work all the time from the map which makes it hard to use the feature.

If the commander system allowed things like guild only viewing spies would not be an issue at all. Also with spies it is possible to have 50 tags up to confuse the enemy to

Yes to commander icon above head (option via menu imo)

I think it would be better to allow an upgrade to keep / tower to alert all commanders on attack.

Those are my thoughts

morrolan.9608:

DevonCarver.5370:

Okay, so before we get too far into this discussion, here is something else to think about:
Would you rather see us make some number of small improvements in the short term and larger changes long term or just tear the whole thing down and start from scratch?

To be a bit more specific, we could probably do something like multicolor markers without too much work, although it is not a given, but that would likely be the extent of things for a long period of time.

When I’m working on process improvement projects once we’ve worked out what we want to change we divided them into quick wins and longer terms goals. You should do the same. I imagine this is fundamental to any process improvement project. Quick wins will show the player base that you are making changes.

I find this is extremely untrue for MMOs.

As a whole MMO players dislike change. They want a stable, steady, persistent world. They want to make choices that won’t bite them in the backside or force them to reallocate points from scratch every time another quick win plops on the field.

If you’ve got a solid plan its vastly better to promote it to live in as few stages as possible. Often the number of shocks to the player experience is far more damaging than the size of the individual shocks. I’m sure John Smith can wax poetic about this from there inside the ANet offices if someone asks him .

It’d be a lot better to roll out “Commanders 2.0” than rattle the cages over and over with quick wins, then less quick wins, then mostly winnables, then ‘oh, here’s the big item we’ve been meaning to do all along’…

Commanders 1.0 was an exercise in theory-craft. You have over a year of real play and MASSIVE changes in the very nature of WvW since launch (World Exp and new skill systems). Take stock and build something that fits the game and systems you have now rather than the game you were looking forward to maybe happening back before launch .

In no particular order the current commander system could be vastly improved by simoultaneously adressing some serious issues with it.

1. your message has been supressed…. this needs to seriously lighten up for commanders. As it is we always have to have key team members type in chat due to message supression. Very bad.

2. different color tags – this would greatly improve command functions on the map.

3. squad player limit – needs to be raised significantly, up to 50 or even as high as 100 players.

4. squad UI – commanders need a simple UI to add / remove people from it.

5. visibility or limited tag visibility – currently when we run guild groups for a plethora of obvious and previously stated reasons, we have to basically put a target over the commanders head. As a commander I would love to have an option to be visible only to mu guild, or only to my squad, or both at same time, and no one else on the map. This would also go a long long ways in dealing with spies. We havent had too many of those but a few, and in the current system it is very hard to bypass a spy.

6. merit based tags or customizations – these would be great, based of off players achievements within certain field, for example WvW, PvE, etc. perhaps different shapes, sizes ?

7. account bound commander tags – this would go a very long ways to help us out.

8. running tagless disables commander functions – closely related to point #5, at times we need to run tagless so as not to accidentally pull people from other commanders etc. When that happens, we have zero actual command functionality. It would be nice to at least have command functions available without a visible tag if nothing else is possible on this front.

For one pinging waypoints seems almost impossible as it is considered as “spamming” and when a commander is suppressed he must have a lackey do the work of pinging instead, so remove/add an in game timer in the system for how fast someone types a message/EMOTE. for instance, if i CTRL+click a waypoint and spam it within 3 times over and over without anyone typeing in between or myself adding some kind of indifference would be supportive.

Color coding of commanders for both pve AND pve.

increasing the radius of the /supplyinfo command getting everyone to stack on your hat and literally touch your rear end to get an appropriate tally is a pain.

Increase squad limits to UNLIMITED, cannot plan on everyone listening to map chat nor plan on having just 30 people listen when all want in on the team play.

More symbols and commands for minimap on commander mode.
such as Defensive line HERE or attack then then that. 1,2,3,4 in order.
basically like a football planning board, have an option to have a permanent line drawn on the map for your squad

squad members only see your hat and not another-so many times have i had people in my squad get bugged out in wvw and another commander makes others confused and steals my numbers -_-

Add a limit to who can be commander: add an additional requirement to become commander like how long someone is in wvw etc.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

A lot of awesome ideas here.

I’m hoping the final round up for this thread will be amazing.

Here are some questions I’ve been wondering about.

How often do people actually join squads and use the features that are there? (4 different way point markers, /supplyinfo). What would make you join squads more?

As one of the squaddies, rather than the commander, I’ve joined them when the commander asks us to, but I don’t know that I’ve ever seen any of the additional functionality – or its used so rarely I literally don’t know what to look for/what I’m looking at.

How much is spies a problem with commander system?

Speaking from Fort Aspenwood: some. I’d say I hear a zone-chat hissy fit over spying about one day in three that I’m playing WvW.

Should the commander icon be shown above the commanders head to the commander?

Have to ask a commander that one . I dunno.

Should we allow a WvW upgrade to see enemy commanders (not on the map just on screen) ?

OMG that could be so cool. I can see two places that it would rock like something that rocks very much:

A pip in the “Commander Skill” itself that allows you to spot enemy commanders with lower Commander Skill pips than yourself. Or just allow all commanders to see each other once they have a certain number of Commander Skill pips so they can be drawn together across the battlefield for some epic face-smashery! Just make that benefit high enough in the sequence of pips that people aren’t just dipping into the Commander Skill for that alone.

A pip in a new “Assassin” skill line. Some sort of zerg-busting skill line that maybe gives you bonuses that only kick in once there are 6 or more enemies close to you. Plow into the enemy’s vanguard, find the commander, and put a blade through his eye. If commanders become more effective, having a clear counter-strategy build at hand will elevate the level of play.

I’d also like to make a comparison between commanders and Champions. It would be neat if a high-skill/dedicated commander got some kind of defiance mechanism based on the number of allies around them. Something they can’t abuse (easily) dueling or roaming, but when about 15+ allies are present, you get some defensive perks that help make up for the time you often have to spend typing and otherwise directing the battle.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

A lot of awesome ideas here.

Here are some questions I’ve been wondering about.

How often do people actually join squads and use the features that are there? (4 different way point markers, /supplyinfo). What would make you join squads more?

How much is spies a problem with commander system?

Should the commander icon be shown above the commanders head to the commander?

Should we allow a WvW upgrade to see enemy commanders (not on the map just on screen) ?

People do not join squads all that often. It just takes too long to do. This means that the commander specific markers are not used today. It isn’t that they aren’t useful; they aren’t used because it is too hard to manage squads. I posted earlier what would make joining squads easier/better.

I use /supplyinfo all the time. I don’t want to throw down more siege than the group can build who is with me.

I have not found spies to be a problem…at least not enough of one that I am bothered. It does happen though.

I think I would like the icon above my head. I can see when someone in my party has targeted me. I think it would be fine for the same type of thing to happen with the commander tag. It would remind me that I have it on when maybe I would prefer it off.

I don’t think seeing the enemy commander on screen really buys a player much. You know when you are fighting a zerg and there typically is a commander in there. Most commanders are not running small tactical groups, but even if they were having known you killed a commander does not mean anything as the game treats it the same as a normal player kill.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

A lot of awesome ideas here.

Here are some questions I’ve been wondering about.

How often do people actually join squads and use the features that are there? (4 different way point markers, /supplyinfo). What would make you join squads more?

How much is spies a problem with commander system?

Should the commander icon be shown above the commanders head to the commander?

Should we allow a WvW upgrade to see enemy commanders (not on the map just on screen) ?

In my guild joining squad is generally done only to avoid seeing any other command tags. Legit or trolling. The markers are almost never used simply because not enough people join the squad to be made worthwhile. i would wager a good number of people playing don’t even realize they can join the squad or what it is. I have had my tag for a while now and actually have no clue how to set the 4 waypoints. They just are too obscure.

That being said if it was reversed(or just added) that the commander could use an ability to draft all nearby players into their squad that would improve the functionality.

For Spying, yes it has become huge. there is a good number of people that have bought second accounts and then multibox with the account on an enemy BL in full map mode. I have never heard of it before now but I know we can join party with opposing sides, if we can join squads of enemy commanders that really needs to get shutdown fast. Hotfix remove the chevron buff when viewed by other players, if they can’t find them easy they can’t join the enemy squad. There is nothing more infuriating then having the enemy show up in front of you repeatedly as long as you run a tag and the moment it shuts off you can move freely.

no abilities to see enemy commanders. I like the idea in Edge for seeing enemy forces fine but commanders specifically will just lead to mass tagging or running no tag and just called target.

Glad you are enjoying all the ideas. If its possible when the recap posts come could you sort the ideas as projected short turn around projects and long term projects. We all have our opinions of how easy a fix should be but you all know your systems better and if you estimate so we can see how the list is piling up. Even if an idea wouldnt be implemented it would still be nice to know where in the spectrum they all sit so we can better answer Devon’s previous question about quick fixes or long term scrap and overhaul.

I like the idea of showing tags to enemy players as well, just not on the map. I think that would add a new layer of difficulty and it would force players to follow directions better or wipe.

I think the range of the supply info thing should be increased, I’ve had to wait many times for a group to “stack tighter”.

I also think the color changing Doritos is a good idea.

I also think it would be helpful to make siegerazer turn his tag off too when you’re in another commanders squad.

I think it would be helpful to show the righteous indignation timers to commanders on the map.

Hi !

First, i’d like to answer to Devon, and i think that, while some change can be done with small fixes, it’s better to rebuild the commander system in order to have a real UI for the commander. A lot of great ideas have been thrown here, but there is one that I’d really like to see : XPM sharing inside the squad

Allowing XPM (or even karma/XP) to be shared among the members of the squad would be better because player would be more likely to play for the success of the group (the more successful the group is, better will be the rewards) and not for their own personnal gain. But above all, this could be used to reward scout who gain nothing while their comrades are fighting.

But this can only be made with other modifications to the commander system so that other players won’t abuse it (for exemple : afk players in the squad). That means the possibility for the commander to open / close the squad, to be able to assign role within an U.I., to inject an automatic kick for afk players (except for the scouts that the commander could design), to be able to kick players from the squad, etc … . On the scout side, an idea could be that whatever he is writing on the squad channel will appear in a specific color so that it will be easily seen by the commander.

This is the rough idea, and of course, it need a lot of polish, but scout rewards have been a huge problem in WvW and this is the only idea i can think of that could do that. But it would need (in my mind) a complete overhaul of the commander/squad system.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Should we allow a WvW upgrade to see enemy commanders (not on the map just on screen)?

Definitely not. Players already tab through the enemy zergs to find the commander and target them. Once they are targeted they’re will most likely die as your allies will dive straight for that one player. If you have an upgrade which allows players to see enemy commanders, then I (along with many others) will just start running tagless.

Desino.1706:

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

How much is spies a problem with commander system?

HUGE – And I play on Bronze tier, I cannot imagine how big a problem it is in silver and gold. It’s very sad that we get countered non-stop while tagged, but all of a sudden, running tagless gets you almost no resistence and/or it arrives much to late. I suspect an actual hack may be at work when that happens.

The issue you’re having is because currently players from other servers can join your commanders squad (so they know exactly where you are at all times)

So they don’t have to be on the commanders server to join his squad? If so then I agree that should be blocked immediately. That would be a quick win right there.

Slushey.8236:

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Should we allow a WvW upgrade to see enemy commanders (not on the map just on screen)?

Definitely not. Players already tab through the enemy zergs to find the commander and target them. Once they are targeted they’re will most likely die as your allies will dive straight for that one player. If you have an upgrade which allows players to see enemy commanders, then I (along with many others) will just start running tagless.

I also concur, this is not a good idea.

As for why I join a squad its pretty much only to not see other commanders these days. Some form of XP increase for those in the commanders squad which have been mentioned which make me join 1 all the time.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

A lot of awesome ideas here.

Here are some questions I’ve been wondering about.

How often do people actually join squads and use the features that are there? (4 different way point markers, /supplyinfo). What would make you join squads more?

How much is spies a problem with commander system?

Should the commander icon be shown above the commanders head to the commander?

Should we allow a WvW upgrade to see enemy commanders (not on the map just on screen) ?

Squads: I know only of very few commanders who ask pugs to join their squad. I think the main problem with squads is that there is no real incentive for people to join one, aside from only seeing 1 commander, resulting in people getting lazy. This in turn makes using the squad options completely inaccurate because you will never have your whole group in your squad. I would much rather advertise my server’s TeamSpeak than ask people to join my squad. To resolve that, you need to give squad members benefits (if in a certain range of that commander or something so it doesn’t get abused). So bottom line, it’s very rare that people join squads and even if they did, squads as they are now are always inaccurate representations of your group (/supplyinfo might show just half your group, pings might only be seen by half your group). TeamSpeak >>>>> Squads.

Spies: I really can’t say much about this… It’s always hard to tell for sure if someone is spying or not. Even if you are getting spied, what can you really do against that? The league system definitely did NOT help the issue at all because it actually made WvW a real competition (which it should have never been imho).

Commander icon: Yes, but we should have the option to show the commander icon to everyone or privately (to guild, party, friends). Because right now organized groups have no reason to run with a tag, therefore getting left out of all the potential benefits of having a tag now or in future updates.

Enemy commander: I personally don’t think this should be in the game. It could potentially force people to not tag up at all.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

A lot of awesome ideas here.

Here are some questions I’ve been wondering about.

How often do people actually join squads and use the features that are there? (4 different way point markers, /supplyinfo). What would make you join squads more?

How much is spies a problem with commander system?

Should the commander icon be shown above the commanders head to the commander?

Should we allow a WvW upgrade to see enemy commanders (not on the map just on screen) ?

I’ve never seen anyone use the waypoint markers (on my server); I think a lot of people don’t know about them. That feature isn’t something I would call well documented… for one it requires the full map be open (can’t use from mini-map). I’d join a squad more if it were dead easy to join a squad and you could “fill up” a commander squad via lfg or something. I’d be more likely to join a squad if it conferred some benefit to a follower/the squad similar to a party (for example, nameplate highlighting, buff/healing priority, minimap location highlighting).

Spies are a problem, it’s hard for me to say how much because you rarely know who they are and whether you’re just getting caught out due to good scouting. I’ve seen several instances of spying (they told us they were spying and they were actively griefing so I believe them) since leagues started. The commander tag makes it much easier for a spy to feed information back since they can basically sit around feeding information, whereas in a tagless group they’d need to be actively scouting. They’d still be invulnerable but at least they’d have to be able to physically see the group.

I can’t think of why a commander would want to see their own tag on their head unless they had left it up by mistake… I wonder if making the commander buff icon flashier could help with that.

If you hid the commander buff by default and made it a wvw upgrade (Scout Mastery or something) to be able to “spot” enemy commanders with their buff icon or some other visual cue I think that would be a cool change. If it was visible on the mini-map it would be a strong disincentive to tag up.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Thanks for all the responses : )

I’ve always felt the commander system had a lot of room to grow mainly it does a good job of giving people something to follow but that’s about it. I used to do a lot of commanding and I found splitting a group of 20-40 up into smaller groups to be very difficult and we just ended up using parties and voice but I’ve noticed the lack of tools to do this drives a lot of gameplay to follow the commander.

Exactly which is why raid type groups are a must.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Thanks for all the responses : )
One of my fav quotes on simplistic design
“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage — to move in the opposite direction.” -Albert Einstein

i think i like where you are going here. make commanders able to stop the fighting and make peace treaties.

Commanders should never be suppressed in /m, /t, or /sq.

Commanders should be able to choose public, Guild Public, or Guild Private. Public is same as it is now, Guild Public is icon seen only by other commanders (to foster cooperation at the leadership level) and guildmates, and Guild Private is guildmates only.

Allow a Commander title through guild progression somehow (guild commendations donated by guildies?) as opposed to only by buying with 100g.

Allow for different color tags, and guild emblems as an optional tag for Guild Private and Guild Public, above. If an objective is claimed by the guild commander, guards for that objective get the guild tag of the commander, “Veteran Scout [SoCo]”.

I’m really glad to hear this is getting an overhaul; definitely a lot can be done with this for both PvE and WvW. In particular, since you mentioned rolling a compacted system underneath it, you could even approach having a raid UI for this utility. It would absolutely be welcome by the community and there’s probably a multitude of ways this could easily be rolled out while minimally impacting UI space. Thanks for taking this on and looking forward to seeing where this goes!

Edit - my vote is long-term-tear-it-down/set it up for life!

Most has been said. Don’t forget a second, commander-appointed tier like a squad captain/officer, who has access to limited functionality of the new features. It’s very important for for example ruins groups, camp groups, or defenders on different maps, who are all operating under one commander/raid. It would boost the level of organization and strategy possible in WvW tremendously.

DevonCarver.5370:

Okay, so before we get too far into this discussion, here is something else to think about:
Would you rather see us make some number of small improvements in the short term and larger changes long term or just tear the whole thing down and start from scratch?

Tear it down and rework everything.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

How often do people actually join squads and use the features that are there? (4 different way point markers, /supplyinfo). What would make you join squads more?

People often join when there is more than one com on the map, which is its only perk at the moment really, but how successful it currently is really shouldn’t be a gauge how successful a reworked system would be.
Only being able to join by manually targeting and right-clicking a commander character is prohibitive. Most people don’t even think of that. You should be able to join a squad directly from the Commander icon on the map and also from a sub-menu of available Commanders on the map that you will add to the LFG tool.

How much is spies a problem with commander system?

In 500+ hours of WvW I have never seen a spy influence anything. Whenever a commander who tried a stealthy approach was detected, it was usually due to scouts standing around.
You don’t have to include specific anti-spy measures, just give commanders the ability to hide their tag to non-squad members + squad kick. That will sort out (detected) spies. If you include specific anti-spy mechanics that would just cause paranoia as it’s suddenly seen as a greater issue than it really is.

Should we allow a WvW upgrade to see enemy commanders (not on the map just on screen) ?

If you mean the current little icon, that would not change anything because it’s extremely hard to see.
If you mean more visibly than now, like the blue taco, this would lead to a meta where the whole zerg tries to focus fire down the commander on first contact. It might be interesting, like Chess where the zerg has to protect their commander (King) while pushing for the enemy one, but it needs thorough testing to see if it’s compatible with the actual GW2 combat mechanics.
Best is if you test it large-scale in the (current or upcoming ones) invitee WvW betas.
If you include one it would have to be very, very far down a trait tree.

Also to the people who say commanders would just run tagless: Yes some would, but then they also would lose access to all the new features we are talking about in this thread.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Thanks for all the responses : )

I’ve always felt the commander system had a lot of room to grow mainly it does a good job of giving people something to follow but that’s about it. I used to do a lot of commanding and I found splitting a group of 20-40 up into smaller groups to be very difficult and we just ended up using parties and voice but I’ve noticed the lack of tools to do this drives a lot of gameplay to follow the commander. I know in PvE and in WvW we’ve been trying to make the content force a little more splitting as the game becomes a lot more fun when there are a bunch of smaller fights then one big one.

I know there are a lot of suggestions about a whole commander system with points, ranks, ect.. and I think that could be neat but one of our big goals is deep systems and as few of them as possible, as having a lot of small shallow systems all over the game can make it hard to maintain and keep up to date. Some examples are we could just roll the whole commander system into the Guild System and make new ranks and abilities part of guild upgrades. Another way to simplify this would be turn commander into WvW abilities and have a few lines that focus on commanding/following. (Granted this approch does make things more messy for PvE commanders). Just a few examples of how to design in a more simplistic way by folding this into another system, and some of the discussions and debates we have internally every time we go to improve/update a system.

One of my fav quotes on simplistic design
“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage — to move in the opposite direction.” -Albert Einstein

If you want smaller groups, why did you make a fight like Tequatl? Why are smaller groups punished in WvW, its much harder to take down a keep with 20 people than 60 given the supply one can carry… the game we have now does not match, isn’t even close to matching, the smaller group vision you have. I think it would be great if it were like that, no one likes skill lag, but we are forced to deal with it because there is no other way available.

As for the commander tag, how hard is it to make certain changes. Sure making a whole new system or integrating it to guilds may be a lot of work, but surely some of the suggestions can be done very quickly. Even what we have now, how hard would it be to remove limitations for commanders? List them in the party box? Change tag color & size (and IMO that should be overridable by the follower). Doing easy things before starting a rebuild of the whole commander system? As a programmer I know that sometimes something that looks easy can take a few days and something that looks hard can take a few hours depending on the already existing code. But other than the progression and guild systems, the ideas suggested up to now look pretty easy.

You didn’t seem to get enough feedback on this list of questions yet, so answers in bold:

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

A lot of awesome ideas here.

Here are some questions I’ve been wondering about.

How often do people actually join squads and use the features that are there? (4 different way point markers, /supplyinfo). What would make you join squads more?

People rarely join squads on kaineng, its also a bit prohibiative if you need to tag down for a bit then tag back up, such as you die during a fight and someone takes over by tagging up and you tag down. People then need to rejoin your squad when you tag back up, or cant see the other guys tag unless you tag down.

How much is spies a problem with commander system?

It currently isn’t as far as I’m aware on kaineng, maybe we are too poor to be spied on.

Should the commander icon be shown above the commanders head to the commander?

it should be at the same height as the tallest charr/norn currently. Yes it would float way above an asuran commanders head but it needs to be ‘above’ the fray to perform its function.

Should we allow a WvW upgrade to see enemy commanders (not on the map just on screen) ?

not a good idea, as this adds a direct penalty to tagging up, which means people will simply tag down OR have a bunch of people tag up which kinda defeats the purpose I would think

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Should we allow a WvW upgrade to see enemy commanders (not on the map just on screen) ?

I think this is a grand idea. Attacking the enemy commander is a valid tactic and should be supported fully as it brings additional depth to battles. I don’t believe commanders should be able to hide where or what they are. I would actually suggest the wvw upgrade get some small bonuses for fighting near an enemy tag. This would really help to counter the current mindless zerg phenomenon.

Please also include an option for every user to turn off commander icons in his mini-map. This is a real problem in some pve areas, and will only be increased if the tags are made more noticeable. Ideally, the ability would be character based so we can selectively not see certain commanders.

Account-wide commander status is a bad idea. There are too many tags in some areas already. If some feel that they need tags on multiple characters, then they should acquire the tags on those characters. I feel that tags should be harder to get, not easier.

While increasing a commanders functionality is a good thing, care must be taken to ascertain that that functionality does not impede upon the play of others. The suggested ability to lock siege to certain groups is a prime example of that. Nobody should have the right to prevent others from participating in the game as they see fit.

Could we also see the commander tag gain on top status? it currently seems to run on the same nameplate level which means your own allies names can obscure the tag not to mention the enemy ones.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

A lot of awesome ideas here.

Here are some questions I’ve been wondering about.

How often do people actually join squads and use the features that are there? (4 different way point markers, /supplyinfo). What would make you join squads more?

How much is spies a problem with commander system?

Should the commander icon be shown above the commanders head to the commander?

Should we allow a WvW upgrade to see enemy commanders (not on the map just on screen) ?

Squads are almost pointless at this point in time. The only thing that really helps is to hide the other pins on the map that could be trolling. If you leave a map, you should automatically be dropped from your previous squad.

Spies are going to be hard to get rid of. They are always there in the T1 fights and it would be nice to find a way to solve the issue but I don’t have any good workarounds in mind.

The icon should NOT be shown. The less on the screen is better for commanding. I need to see the direction the other zerg is going and obstructions don’t help.

Being able to know where the enemy commander is a great perk to leading. However, you should NOT be able to see where they are via an unlock. This will cause focusing on the pin and zergs will just end up rushing the commanders instead of actually fighting.

For my input on the topic, we need several different icons. They can be different colors and have different requirements for obtaining them. Blue for WvW, Red for PvE, Gold for guild. The blue ones should cost 100g and some badges of honor to prove you have been around long enough to know how to and where to lead zergs. Red icons could have dungeon tokens and 100g requirements. The gold guild icons could be something just for people in the guild to see. This would be VERY helpful for running havoc groups in WvW or guild missions in PvE. These could be obtained by permissions in the guild panel or by commendations at the guild vendor.

I would also like to see the current blue icon/pin to be bigger or easier to see so that we don’t have to set attack orders on the commander to see them in large fights.

Being able to give orders with macros or something would be very nice as well. I want to be able to tell my zerg to stack and roll out water fields without too much work or getting suppressed. Not everyone can join Teamspeak with me and it really shows in larger fights. Organizing people that haven’t played much WvW is very hard right now and I think there needs to be a bit of help in that area.

Frankly, I think the commander system needs to be scrapped and redone. One of the largest problems with the commander system at the moment is that it is a way to show you have (or had, rather) 100g. The method of acquiring commander doesn’t reflect what a commander should be doing (leading). There is no method attached to help the person learn nor ensure they are competent at all.

So, how do you attach methods to ensure competent leadership as well as a basic framework to help new commanders learn and grow? I feel that the best way to do this is to put it in the hands of the community. What do I mean by put being a commander in the hands of a community? Essentially, what I would like to see is that there is a set number of commanders. Every season (or whatever if the WvW season thing changes) the world gets to vote on who should be commander. There will be sufficient number of slots to ensure that trolling votes wouldn’t have a significant ability to screw up a server by making the commanders random accounts. This leads to the problem of how do you campaign for such a position of leadership and how do you learn how to command if the only way to get commander is by being good at it already (i.e., proving you can command to your server)? Well commanders should get the ability to deputize people (call them Lts or whatever). These deputies would have similar abilities but would be visually distinctive. So people will know they may not necessarily be great commanders. There will have to be some limit as far as how many people a commander can deputize at any one time (potentially even upgradable). Another good idea would be to show the commander who deputized the person. This way the commander is somewhat accountable. The commander will then have a personal stake to make sure the deputy learns and will eventually become a capable commander.

Okay, this was all rather WvW focused. What about the PvE commanders? Nuke it. Give guild leaders similar abilities but make them only visible to guild members (useful for guild missions). What about the champ farming commanders? First, the question needs to be addressed if ANet even wants this behavior. Second, no one really follows the commanders in PvE anyway. Just listen to map chat in any zone with a champ farm train. There is drama about the train being derailed every 15 minutes. PvE farming commanders doesn’t address any problem well and it can be argued only creates drama. Other systems to organize PvE players on maps may be a better idea (such as integrating better automatic map pings for events like Scarlet invasions to show where people are attacking specifically during the invasion). Essentially, PvE commanders serve a completely different purpose from WvW commanding so the systems should be split to ensure we have systems that work the best for the respective areas.

The image attached below is my idealistic view of a Commander System in Guild Wars 2.

One of the main ideas behind this design is the ease of joining a squad. The only reason I don’t join squads in WvW now is because it is somewhat complicated and takes a short amount of time unless you know the chat code. This system would allow players to quickly view a list of commanders on their map and select them to join their squad.

Another idea implemented in my design is the ability to restrict visibility and accessibility of your commander tag. While running in WvW currently the best strategy for a server is to have one commander tag, so any smaller groups just have to target their ‘commander’ in their party. This system would allow guilds to have a ‘hidden tag’ which only their guild members would be able to see.

A smaller and less significant idea is that of colour coding commander tags. A blue commander tag is a commander with whom you have no affiliation. A gold commander tag is a commander representing the same guild as you. And a red commander tag is a commander who’s squad you are in. Depending on your own individual relationship to each commander at the time, the colour of their tag will vary.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

How often do people actually join squads and use the features that are there? (4 different way point markers, /supplyinfo). What would make you join squads more?

The chat feature and 4 markers are rarely used by the groups I’m in because we communicate over voice, and people are asked to group on commander for /supplyinfo rather than being in the squad. Right now there isn’t much point in joining up except for the tag exclusivity.

It may be too much network data, but if we could get dots on the map, simple health bar information, or even #alive/#total for squad members in the UI, that’d be a huge reason to use them—any additional information i get about the members of the squad I’m in helps coordinate, which is the primary reason squads exist.

EDIT: put another way, right now squads are mostly tools for the commander to communicate to members. Make them a way to gather information about members and they’ll be more popular.

I’ve spent a lot of time in both pug and guild groups using the target system as a pseudo tag over the last few months, wishing that the commander tag could be visible to only the squad or a guild. If we could free up the target to actually call out enemies and have a privately visible commander, that’d be extremely helpful. Making the tag visible within the squad would allow people to create custom groups for coordination without some of the confusion we have now for squadless players. I’ve had multiple commanders wish that they could split their force into ranged/melee or primary/flank groups but it’s hard to do that with the current visible-to-all tags (which is where targeting your pseudo-commander comes in)

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

How much is spies a problem with commander system?

It doesn’t matter if there’s a karma train running, but if there is something that needs to be done quietly, most FA commanders tag down habitually. A squad-only or guild-only commander tag would make people less paranoid about being visible on the map.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Should the commander icon be shown above the commanders head to the commander?

I’d prefer it, if only as a reminder that my tag is up—the icon under the directional indicator on the minimap isn’t always easy to see when there’s stuff going on.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Should we allow a WvW upgrade to see enemy commanders (not on the map just on screen) ?

I’ve seen commander hunting turn a fight quickly; if you make it simple to detect and take down commanders early in a fight I think it’d mean more chaotic fights and less coordination.

Organized guilds already have a chain of command that can take over when the primary commander is out of a fight, and you would theoretically be rewarding groups that can recover from commander losses… but you’d also make it more grueling to be the commander, and frankly that’s not a barrel of laughs for many groups as is—adding another reason to be frustrated or turn off the tag is not a good idea IMO.

EDIT: JUST THIS:

1. Commander should be able to choose who gets to see tag: Squad-only option

Here are the most important things that are tweaks of existing code withoug a re-design of the commander functionality even though the later is highly desired but seems off the table from the initial post.

/supplyinfo
Increase the range, it is too small.

guild commander
Only members of the same guild can join a squad, a squad commanders’ icon is only visible for the members of a squad.

squad size
Increase squad size to 50 players or even larger. As Anet doesnot want to reveal the map cap this should be an acceptable number as it is for sure below the map cap but larger then the current 30.

enemies cannot see the commander buff
Handle it like outnumbered, so enemies cannot see it.

color of commander icon
More colors are not really needed. If you join a squad all other commander icons get invisible for players. But the commander can still see others on his map, which is good. So no changes needed here IMHO.

leave squad bug
When a commander tags off his squad is not always properly disbanded. Members of his squad still see his commander tag a lot of time and have to leave the squad manually. If more emphasize as I suggest is put on the squad functionality this bug since squads were added to game needs to be fixed.

declaiming of claimed objectives
A commander can declaim claimed objectives if NO BUFF is on them. This helps with people claiming objectives without having buffs running in their guild or re-claiming without having someone from a guild online that claims something else on the map when possible.

commander can claim always
Currently you only can claim if you guild members made enough damage. If not you have to wait until the lord’s buff is over. I understand where this comes from and why it was implemented this way. It became an annoyance. Suggestion if you want to keep the mechanic in some way change to to “have at least X memners in his squad within a certain distance to override guild damage”.

joining suqads
As these suggestions put more emphasize on squads, then it must be easier for players to join squad. A lot of players do not know how it works and it is counter intuitive. Add a “join squad” button that displays a popup of the current active commanders on the map and allow people to join.

TL;DR
Focus on improvements towards the squad system.

Hopefully I won’t be too late to the party, there are many great ideas… unfortunately I am too busy at the moment to write in detail my thoughts.

The above annoys me sooo much because I need a good commander system in place to organize logistically and be a successful leader without excessive hassle.

Tuesday/Wednesday I’ll have a good chance to write. I have a feeling that post is going to be long.

<3 Hugs <3

~wave~ -to people who know me
______________________

tl;dr

Some things off top of my head in meantime, unfortunately I don’t have time at the moment to give full details or full list:

1) commander symbol show to enemies – bad idea
2) organize raiding party(s) – switch people into different groups – Full raid UI – able to see everyone in raid with choice of only showing select groups vs entire raid
3) Need a raidshout function (</raidshout MOVE> = raid sees “MOVE” flashing letters on their screen)
4) See raid on minimap and on screen – needed
5) Differentiate from different leaders (colors, icons, etc..), blue symbol is a very bad color to use for leading, Brighter colors like Yellow to Red spectrum are best symbol colors. Large Icons are also very useful.
6) Visual Waypoints – must be applicable from minimap (at the moment you need to use Full Map)
7) Open Raid – Player Join for raids without leader specifically inviting through commands / clicking. Ex: Player sees open raid, clicks join, commander prompted for accept/deny, accepts, player put in first open slot within raid.
8) Message suppression is the Bane of all commanders
9) Simpler </> command for “squad” chat, try </s>, </ra>, something… Ex: </s Move> to tell raid “move”.
10) …

I need to go (sleep / work), talk to you later!!

- Harmonizer

<3

Many things are already mentioned, but still…

Most important would be in my opinion an option for commanders to disable their tag for everyone who has not joined their squad. Because honestly it is very confusing especially in WvW when there are too many commanders on the map and the server I am playing on, needs to depend on the public zergs often or else we will lack players. And these players are most of the time not in TS and are just running behind the commander tag, which creates problems because guild groups (which are really helpfull most of the time) tend to split this public zerg.
Also a different method for getting the commander tag would be nice, since for some people 100g is a lot and yes we are not one of the largest servers and sometimes we have no commander available on eternal battlegrounds for example and part of this is, because people who would be interested in doing it lack the funds. Since this is such an important tool for WvW there should be some option to get it there for example with the badges. Also making it account bound would help because another problem we have is that sometimes commanders would like to play a character which has not bought the tag. This leads to situtions like this: Commander A “I need to go now, can someone take the lead” Commander B: “I would, but I am not on my commander character right now and waiting queue is more than an hour right now”
It would also be great if you improved the commander tag by adding options for the commanders to mark positions on the map, which would sometimes make communication easier.

This is not directly commander tag, but one of its implications: Please give us an option to see the squad members on the minimap. But really an option, because if you are running with a big zerg your minimap would become to clustered, but when splitting into smaller groups it would be really helpfull.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

How often do people actually join squads and use the features that are there? (4 different way point markers, /supplyinfo). What would make you join squads more?

It is currently underused because of the 30 people cap and the counter intuitive way to join squads. But it has a lot potential (see my post above).

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

How much is spies a problem with commander system?

If you allow private squads (meaning commander and current members can only invite people to a squad and commander could kick people form it), then the commanding system and spies are less of a problem. Sure, they still can run behind a zerg and relay information. But it requires more work then standing AFK at the spawn if a commander decides to run “squad only”.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Should the commander icon be shown above the commanders head to the commander?

No.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Should we allow a WvW upgrade to see enemy commanders (not on the map just on screen) ?

No. This brings us in general to spying abilities in WvW. WvW in its currently state has more important issues than to provide spying mechanics or methods to protect against it. Once the most important issues are dealt with the topic of spying as an actual gameplay mechanics can be revisited.

I agree with William

When I command I don’t use squad chat because people don’t even know it exists!!! Usually my squad is 3 people out of a zerg of 30.

What I do mostly is spam /supplyinfo but people don’t know how to stack properly which is weird because they spend their time stacking in dungeons….So a wider range is really needed

The main issue after that is “Oh wow, so much commander I’m lost!” We need colors for tags and the idea about an invisible tag for guild groups that only the “infantry” commander (or any other guild commander) can see is brilliant as WvW is more effective when you can have 2 or 3 groups that know where each other are and what they are doing.
Otherwise commanders lead their zerg to resupply to camps that have just been drained by guild groups or lead them to objective already under siege while they could hit somewhere else and put more pressure on the enemy.

Now let’s talk about something that gets really annoying when it happens : Mesage suppressed. Why? Commanders are the one talking the most, it’s normal and a friend told me you can be suppressed in your own squad chat! The one YOU created, I mean where’s the logic in that. You might want to increase the cap for commander and remove it totally from squad chat.

I’d like to direct you to sluchey’s post (5 posts above) for his commander UI which seems really nice and the part where you can have info on your supply and number of players is something needed.

I’ll had more or correct myself when I think about it after having commanded.
I’ve always thought 100g to get the tag was a bad idea but since you sometimes need commanders in PvE now, I won’t go there anymore.

PS : Thank you so much for letting us share our view and I hope it gets redone soon ^^

Malchior.5042:

As a PuG commander in both PvE and WvW, I would like to present a few extra “ranks” or “tiers” of commanders which would better represent the ideas of different colored tags that most people here have posted…

<snip>

That is some nice development of the concept. I like it .

Slushey.8236:

The image attached below is my idealistic view of a Commander System in Guild Wars 2.

I suspect there are some significant system resources eaten up by a continuously updating supply and proximity count, but if you replaced those with buttons to ping that information (with a modest internal cooldown to keep resources from being gobbled up spamming them) your panel example could work quite nicely .

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

I know there are a lot of suggestions about a whole commander system with points, ranks, ect.. and I think that could be neat but one of our big goals is deep systems and as few of them as possible, as having a lot of small shallow systems all over the game can make it hard to maintain and keep up to date. Some examples are we could just roll the whole commander system into the Guild System and make new ranks and abilities part of guild upgrades. Another way to simplify this would be turn commander into WvW abilities and have a few lines that focus on commanding/following. (Granted this approch does make things more messy for PvE commanders). Just a few examples of how to design in a more simplistic way by folding this into another system, and some of the discussions and debates we have internally every time we go to improve/update a system.

I go back and forth on what price should be paid/trade-off accepted to become a commander. I still favor Achievements over raw wxp as a measure of commandery-ness, but the existing WvW skill system is just so easily adapted as a framework… Just puttering with a quick example of a Commander Skill:

Level 1 (2 wxp). Can form squads of up to 20. Gains squad chat channel. Can activate squad-only map tag.
Level 2 (4 wxp). Can ping supply total carried by squadmembers.
Level 3 (6 wxp). Squad members within range 2000 gain a 2% wxp bonus (non-stacking 30 second buff, pulses once every 15 seconds)
Level 4 (8 wxp). After being CC’d, gains 1 stack of defiance if there are 10 or more squad members within 1500.
Level 5 (10 wxp). Can activate public map tag. Can form Squads up to 40
Level 6 (12 wxp). Squad members within range 2000 gain a 4% wxp bonus (non-stacking 30 second buff, pulses once every 15 seconds)
Level 7 (14 wxp). Grants 7% speed buff to self and squad members within 2000 if there are 10 or more squad members within 2000 (non-stacking 30 second buff, pulses once every 15 seconds)
Level 8 (16 wxp). After being CC’d, gains 2 stacks of defiance if there are 10 or more squad members within 1500.
Level 9 (18 wxp). Squad members within range 2000 gain a 6% wxp bonus (non-stacking 30 second buff, pulses once every 15 seconds)
Level 10 (20 wxp). Can see Commander tag over the head of enemy commanders (and their clones…) up to draw distance. Can form Squads up to 60
Level 11 (22 wxp). When you are downed, grant Aegis for 5 seconds to all allies within 1000 (max targets 20; internal cooldown of 1 minute).
Level 12 (24 wxp). Squad members within range 2000 gain a 8% wxp bonus (non-stacking 30 second buff, pulses once every 15 seconds)
Level 13 (26 wxp). When you are killed, inflict AoE damage based on the number of allies within 2000 (max targets 20; internal cooldown of 1 minute).
Level 14 (28 wxp). Grants 15% speed buff to self and squad members within 2000 if there are 10 or more squad members within 2000 (non-stacking 30 second buff, pulses once every 15 seconds).
Level 15 (30 wxp). Squad members within range 2000 gain a 10% wxp bonus (non-stacking 30 second buff, pulses once every 15 seconds). Can form Squads up to 80
Level 16 (32 wxp). After being CC’d, gains 3 stacks of defiance if there are 10 or more squad members within 1500.

Alternate colors for tags are unlocked by combined grades of related WvWvW achievements.

One of my fav quotes on simplistic design
“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage — to move in the opposite direction.” -Albert Einstein

A friend of mine thought this was a fitting insight for game designers~

“Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication” – Leonardo da Vinci

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

How often do people actually join squads and use the features that are there? (4 different way point markers, /supplyinfo). What would make you join squads more?

Never. Typing in chat is better than using the waypoints, and the aoe supply check is better. Also, joining a commander’s squad only shows that commander’s tag.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Should we allow a WvW upgrade to see enemy commanders (not on the map just on screen) ?

In fights when I find the enemy commander (due to buff icon), I mark him and the fight becomes much easier if the enemy zerg is running together. Really, the icon buff should be removed as there shouldn’t be a penalty for running a tag.