Guild Wars 2

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Blind Jimmy.1634:

What if the Aspect replaced the existing (and generally agreed problematic) F2 skill? What if it functioned more like an Engineer’s toolkit and replaced the player’s 1-5 skills until they either hit the weapon-swap key or actively used the pet again?

While thepet is stowed (or turned into an auro), your F skliis could look like this:
F1 – Ingite Hit (like the Ignite the Flame Legion Stalker is using)
F2 – Poisoned Hit
F3 – Sharpening Stone Hit
F4 – Bilinding Hit
Each effect holds for 5 shots or 5 seconds.

Might even call them preparations! I think the 5s (20-30s cooldown) would make sense… I would think about swapping F4 for Choking Gas (minimum length daze per hit, chance to stun) It would give huge bump to survivability for a period if a ranger could force a stability pop to stop the interrupt spam on classes and then move away for the period of that stability.

In this post I will focus on longbows and shortbows.

Rangers, as Anet have defined them, are, “Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows.”

So, at first it sounds like this class should be better at ranged weaponry, perhaps dealing a bit more damage than say, a warrior with a longbow, or a thief with a shortbow. However, it is soon discovered that ranged weapons in general offer less DPS than melee weapons.

I’ve always wondered, why is this? Why is this necessary?

Melee players are more susceptible to melee attacks by being closer to the mob, sure. That makes sense. The closer you are to danger, the more damage you will receive, so therefore you should be rewarded by in turn dealing out more damage.

But think about this: people using ranged weapons are just as susceptible to AOE circles and ranged attacks from the mob, which can be, and are just as damaging as the boss’ melee attacks. There are plenty, and I mean, PLENTY of bosses and other enemies who have devastating large ranged AOE and singular ranged attacks that can one shot ranged players. There is also projectile reflection and plenty of other block skills that can come back to bite us. So what do those players who are ranged get in return for managing to avoid a ton of AOE, successfully dodge one-shot ranged attacks, all while maintaining DPS on their target? Decreased DPS just because they are ranged and supposedly “safer”. It is this way of thinking that needs to stop.

Ranged weapons should do just as much damage as melee weapons. Before you think this is OP, or that I am crazy, let me explain in this post why I think ranged weapons should do as much damage as melee weapons, and how it is not OP.

Let’s talk about WvW real quick. In WvW I generally run longbow/greatsword or longbow/sword/warhorn/dagger.

Firstly, there is no real “kiting” in Guild Wars 2. In WvW, just about every weapon and class have multiple gap closers. Gap closers are good and healthy for the game. Without gap closers, no melee players would ever be able to catch up to a ranged player and kill them. The ranged player would plink away at their health until the melee person died. This never happens in Guild Wars 2 because of the many condition removals, gap closers and dodge rolls we have. Not to mention the CC some classes have access to.

Ranged battles are extremely short, and generally last less than 5 seconds. A ranger opens up with longbow, an enemy teleports/runs up to the ranger while blocking his point blank shot, and then the ranger switches to melee. So with such a short amount of time being used with the ranged weapon, why not have it do just as much damage as a melee weapon?

Strafing to the side is slower than running forwards, therefore no ranger is able to keep an enemy at distance, at least not for very long. Since you have to be facing your enemy to fire your weapon (can’t shoot arrows behind you unless you turn around), you can never outrun someone who is chasing you. If you’re running to the side at 75% speed hitting an enemy, and the enemy is chasing you at 100% speed, he’s going to catch you.

Aegis, invisibility, clones, dodge roll, are all ways to avoid being hit with longbow #4 point blank shot, which is the only knockback rangers have. If this skill misses, then that’s it. You need to switch to a melee weapon or short bow because anything less than 1,200 range is going to nerf your longbow’s damage even more.

Short bows. Since their range has been nerfed down to 900, we’re practically within greatsword range. This weapon really needs a damage buff. It’s practically useless in WvW. It can only hit 1 target, at a very short range, and it just about shoots marshmallows. Bring a shortbow into WvW and you will get laughed back to the citadel.

KehxD.6847:

Angela Ranna.5638:

Karl McLain.5604:

mtpelion.4562:

Wilderness experts should be masters of poisons. Therefore, Rangers should have the most potent poisons available.

Great point here and I agree. I would be awesome to see a way to increase poison potency for the Ranger and it’s something we’ve been talking about internally as well. We’ll keep looking into it and see if there’s something that can happen here.

Mechanically I love this idea. Thematically I would have pegged thieves as the poisoners. Of the 15 poison skills rangers have access to, only 4 of them aren’t on our pets.

To make it really stick it would need a lot of traits and class balancing to support it.

Yeah it is true. Although I like the idea of more poison, I feel like poison is more Thief and Necro territory, whereas bleeding seems to be for the ranger… which is pretty sad if you think about it. I don’t think ranger should become the “main poison master”, but adding poison here and there and maybe changing a bit bleeding to poison would really be appreciated.

I think of thief as venoms and necro as plague, the venoms are their own thing, plague is all the things. I think the original quote is more thinking of taking the condition ‘poison’ and looking at stuff like a GM trait: Powerful Poisons – Poison duration +25%, Poison Damage +50%, Healing Reduction +33%. That trait would make getting poisoned by a ranger dangerous and something that has to be cleansed instead of healed through, as most heals would move from being 2-4k to 1-2k.

Specific game mode
PvX
Proposal overview
Some skills to change, upgrade the general utility of rangers in dungeons or fractals
Goal of proposal
Right now, rangers and some other professions are simply not needed in groups in pve. By changing some little things on traits and skills, rangers can be upgrade in their way to interact with others members of a team in dungeons.
Proposal functionnality
Actually in a team, rangers can bring 150 precision with a trait and 10%dmg with a spirit. They also can place one water field and summon the nature spirit to support a little. The general dmg or support of the rangers are consequently less effectives than other professions. By adding more boons or interactions with other members of the team, they can compensate those problems.
-Per example, add more blasts finisher to this class, in a weapon or utility (like on warhorn which was really cool)
-More fields combos can be also interesting, on spirits or with pets
-Traits that increase rangers dmg can be shared by the group (10% when stamina max per exemple) because for now it just seems to me that rangers are doing their dmg on their own and this encourage ranger as solo more than group up
For support, one of the good aspect of rangers for now is that they can run berseker gears without loosing support of spirit or healing spring. I think it is good to keep that up and even add or upgrade support skills to reintegrate rangers in dungeons, like a druidic way (i know im not giving any clear skills in detail, others have surely done it for me before)

For a more rpg way and general design of rangers, i think we lost the general view of the class as a discret and deadly adventurer. More stealth needed on the ranger, like activate signet of the hunt give three sec stealth or whatever, but actually enginneers can stealth more than rangers and i dont think it is normal for this wood hunter.
Thank you allie if you read this post fully and im sure we ll see good changements on this wonderful class !
Potential risks
My post is too long

Specific Game Mode

WvWvW

Proposal Overview

Pet act as a stationary scout in one place while the Ranger is roaming freely in other parts of the map.

Goal of Proposal

Stationary scouting is a chore in WvWvW. Commanders are having problems with it when not enough players want to do it. Stationary pet with accompany pet view as an alternative to player ranger view would solve the stationary scout necessity in WvWvW.

Proposal Functionality

Pet stay put option and Ranger able to switch pet camera pan view. This could happened while both pet and Ranger are in different parts of the map. Possibly This could happened while pet and Ranger are in different WvWvW maps.

Associated Risks

The loading time in switching camera pan view between Ranger and pet can get too long especially between different maps. It can impact on player cap per map.

1. Buff pet speed by 30%. Change the existing pet run speed trait to ‘Pet buffs now activate on the ranger rather than the pet and are reducted by 10%’
With a bit of tinkering to the buffs providded by pets (durations, cooldowns whatever) Ranger can now support his ally’s and be an useful member of the party due to his class mechanic, rather than a hindrance, some might argue.

2. Back when the game came out rangers were really OP with their 100% endurance regen, easy access to multiple quickness that worked at 100% efficiency. This was hit hard and for good reasons but Bows are not as fun as they should be. I understand that if they were everyone would be rolling a ranger though and it’s good AN didn’t make their ranger like an Aion ranger… however, there isn’t much to make you feel powerful because quickness is less than useful now, and Longbow is basicly a bit repetitive (if handy…).

I suggest putting the quickness on pet swap to 10points in BM tree.
Moving EITHER Piercing Arrows or Eagle Eye to 10points in Power tree. Piercing is necessary for wvw and it severely limits build choices because of this for bow wielding power setups.

A suggestion is to ignore all of this and add to zephyrs speed so that quickness works at 100% efficiency, giving rangers back their signature quickness so that they can hard-res team mates well, have deadly sustained damage capable of pressuring opponents, and become a useful stomper. This change, as a whole, enforces their dps+support nature without making them into the ‘easy acess uber quickness machinegun shortbow did I evade your attack again’ user they were before.

Specific Game Mode
WvW
Proposal Overview
Making bows more fun.
Giving the ranger more support options.
Goal of Proposal
Ranger team support through buffs and dps.
Proposal Functionality
Quickness might have to be separated into a ranger specific buff.
Associated Risks
1. Pets becoming too strong.
2. LB2 becoming OP, might need a % damage decrease if it’s easiest to use it in conjunction with swiftness.

I like interactive threads, hurp.

PART II

I will now focus on the PvE aspect of longbows and shortbows.

To reiterate, I believe longbows and shortbows should do just as much damage as melee weapons. Ranged players are no safer than melee players.

The first problem we run into with range weapons being just as powerful as melee weapons in PvE, is boss fights. “People will just sit at range and DPS from safety.” That is a problem with the boss encounter, not the player. The revamped Tequatl, the Marionette, the Fire Elemental, all prove that ranging a boss is just as dangerous, if not more dangerous, than melee’ing it. Bosses like Claw of Jormag and Inquest Golem Mark II need to be reworked so that rangers/ranged players can not sit in safety outside of the boss’ range.

In dungeons and events, mobs spawn in with stacks of defiance. Rangers’ knockbacks and CC are useless against these mobs. This makes kiting in PvE also impossible, and the mob will catch up or hit you with a ranged attack.

The only instance this would be overpowered is against normal mobs with no defiance. The only comeback I have to this, is that I have a level 80 100% berserker warrior. I can run up to any normal mob in Orr, use 100 blades and kill the enemy before I reach below 98% health. Yet this is acceptable? I feel there is too much favoritism towards melee, and ranged gets largely ignored. Having ranged weapons be just as powerful as melee weapons would not break the game anymore than berserker warriors already do with greatswords.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Hey everyone,

Before things get out of hand, I want to address the aspect idea so we can move on. First of all, it’s a great idea, but there are many current issues with the profession that need to be addressed first. Our priorities to make the pet a more viable option will likely remain higher than giving an option to “permastow” the pet.

We recognize there are a number of issues with the pet AI and general functionality, so that is something that will come first. Rangers are first and foremost a pet class, but they are also great skirmishers and some of the best sustained long range damage.

I don’t want you to think we’re going to ignore the idea or the feedback around the pet, but it could very well be the case that fixing some of the major nagging issues with the pet would make it a more desirable aspect of the Ranger.

That said, if you would like to consider discussing the aspect idea, I ask that you start a thread outside of the CDI to brainstorm.

Thanks so much for all the great, constructive feedback everyone! Let’s keep it coming!

I’m interested if you could explain how and what aspect of this game you think this class is great at sustained long range damage?

Because in PvE, long range damage is absolutely not needed at all for any thing (some instances where you have to range a boss but heck, any class can do that kind of range dps..). If you are in a frac/dung using longbows/sb, you are doing absolutely bad dps compared to being in melee. So some of the best long range damage you speak of holds little value in any PvE mode..

Now as far as PvP/WvW is concerned… I don’t think you understand that the fact that rangers can’t sustain ANYTHING in LB… once LB 4 is used, they have absolutely no means of keeping up this “sustain”… any other class can gap close immediately so there is no sustained long range damage at all in WvW/sPvP…

now if you are talking about if you simply select a target and pew pew away @1500 range without having to worry about the target ever coming after you, sure you have some sustained long range dps by just spamming 1 lol… but that is RARELY the case… every

so to summarize…
PvE – sustained long range dps is meaningless…melee does much better DPS
WvW roaming/sPvP…. enemies will gap close you instantly, there is very little long range you are even doing besides getting in 1 or 2 auto attacks before the target jumps at your face and its game over basically… the LB 2 is readily interuppted and not even that great of a DPS (even combined with quickness skill)
WvW zerg – about the only place where i can see where you thought rangers have good long range dps sustain… mainly because you are sitting comfortably behind the front line and spamming 1

So please, do explain where the notion of rangers = good sustained long range dps applies… because I don’t see it outside of a WvW zerg lol

Allie Murdock.8152:

Hey everyone,

Before things get out of hand, I want to address the aspect idea so we can move on. First of all, it’s a great idea, but there are many current issues with the profession that need to be addressed first. Our priorities to make the pet a more viable option will likely remain higher than giving an option to “permastow” the pet.

We recognize there are a number of issues with the pet AI and general functionality, so that is something that will come first. Rangers are first and foremost a pet class, but they are also great skirmishers and some of the best sustained long range damage.

I don’t want you to think we’re going to ignore the idea or the feedback around the pet, but it could very well be the case that fixing some of the major nagging issues with the pet would make it a more desirable aspect of the Ranger.

That said, if you would like to consider discussing the aspect idea, I ask that you start a thread outside of the CDI to brainstorm.

Thanks so much for all the great, constructive feedback everyone! Let’s keep it coming!

If rangers truly are seen as the Pet class of GW2 then the devs need to be devoting time to handing more active control of the pet to the player. Currently if you look at other classes that are able to summon minions we really only have maybe one more level of control compared to them. This biggest difference between us and them is that our pets are mandatory.

Please please please give us more active control of our pets abilities in combat. Current f keys could be redesigned. You could also more closely link weapon skills to pet behaviour/ability (some weapons already have this a little bit). You could do a combination of these 2 ideas (that would be really exciting). Or who knows how else you could solve the problem?

As long as the pet is 90% tied to an ai though Rangers will be seriously kitten.

Specific Game Mode:
PvX

Proposal Overview:
Ranger class mechanic need a change. Pets should not be a requirement in a game that advertises playing to your suited play style. It is probably the most clunkiest and unreliable mechanic in the game. Pets should be a skill like it was in Guild Wars.

Goal of Proposal:
Not having to rely on Artificial Intelligence to achieve the same results as most other classes. Giving the player more freedom to play the game how they want to.

Proposal Functionality:
It would allow rangers to pick and choose whether they want to rely on pet mechanics much like a Necromancer has the choice to do so.

I don’t really see a risk in this change. You can allow players to specialize pets via traits or you can allow them to specialize in ranged/melee/support/etc.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Before things get out of hand, I want to address the aspect idea so we can move on. First of all, it’s a great idea, but there are many current issues with the profession that need to be addressed first. Our priorities to make the pet a more viable option will likely remain higher than giving an option to “permastow” the pet.

Then I suggest interacting with some of the other approaches put forward.

Here, here’s a tiny one that doesn’t involve AI coding at all .

We recognize there are a number of issues with the pet AI and general functionality, so that is something that will come first. Rangers are first and foremost a pet class, but they are also great skirmishers and some of the best sustained long range damage.

I’ve no lasting heartbreak with Rangers being defined as a pet class – as long as the resulting mechanics are less frustrating. But this phrase you keep using… “the best sustained long range damage”… I do not think it means, what you think it means .

That said, if you would like to consider discussing the aspect idea, I ask that you start a thread outside of the CDI to brainstorm.

Where is can be safely ignored like so many other posts over the last year in the Ranger Forums. ((sigh))

Edit: Per your request I’ve launched a separate thread.

+1 on the stowing pet gives boons idea. I think the act of stowing and unstowing your pets during combat would add some nice depth to the class, especially to people who have played the class for a long time. A followup idea of mine is when your pet is stowed, your f2 skills turns into a unique pet themed attack that YOU perform, not your pet. This attack would be on a different cooldown then your pet’s f2, so there would be some depth in when to switch pets, when to stow your pet and so forth.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Hey everyone,

Before things get out of hand, I want to address the aspect idea so we can move on. First of all, it’s a great idea, but there are many current issues with the profession that need to be addressed first. Our priorities to make the pet a more viable option will likely remain higher than giving an option to “permastow” the pet.

We recognize there are a number of issues with the pet AI and general functionality, so that is something that will come first. Rangers are first and foremost a pet class, but they are also great skirmishers and some of the best sustained long range damage.

I don’t want you to think we’re going to ignore the idea or the feedback around the pet, but it could very well be the case that fixing some of the major nagging issues with the pet would make it a more desirable aspect of the Ranger.

That said, if you would like to consider discussing the aspect idea, I ask that you start a thread outside of the CDI to brainstorm.

Thanks so much for all the great, constructive feedback everyone! Let’s keep it coming!

In my original post in this thread about pets, I went over all the major/minor pet mechanic flaws. (page 15) I believe we should keep our pets. I think it would be a very bad idea to remove pets. I am very happy with this line, “We recognize there are a number of issues with the pet AI and general functionality, so that is something that will come first.” Is there a chance some coding can be reworked on the pet? I sincerely hope the developers will find some time to re-program the pets, as I believe this will be the only way to save the ranger class from its current state.

honestly, poll the rangers forum on what THEY want…

Right now, pets are completely broken(even devs have stated they are, which is absolutely embarassing) and would take an insane amount of effort to fix…

its been over a year, and it probably would be another year before we see pets actually be a viable option…

just get rid of this faulty class mechanic because there is pretty much no hope for making pets viable as long you keep them tied into all mob AI…

I would guarantee you the poll would show majority of the rangers want perma-stow options that give us different buffs instead….that + make some changes to the trait line and everyone will be happy and anet would not have to put too much work into accomplishing this…

as it stands, I absolutely hate using my pets because:
they bring nothing to the table in PvE (outside fury/might buffs, which any other class can provide as well)
they bring nothing to the table in WvW/sPVP – instant dead in zerg. In roaming/small group , its the easiest cloak and dagger for a thief lol. They cause more trouble to me than do me good.. sure they can immobilize / cc for a few seconds… thats it lol. Anyone with half a brain can get out of 1 small CC from a pet….

They don’t scare anyone in WvW/sPvP and are pretty much useless in PvE lol

If current player base prefers perma-stow, why not give it to them??? we are the ones playing the game….

Perhaps they should consider making pets work more like mesmer Phantasms.

By that I mean, have them attack much less often, but with stronger/harder to avoid attacks.

This could be done by removal the idea of pets permainanty attacking, and have them at all times stay on what is now passive mode. Remove all our pet controls (since there will be no such thing as they auto-attacking) except for stow, and make our F1-4 keys into four attacks our pet can do. There can be anything from AoE buffs/debuffs, damage, cc, whatever. By in the case of targeted attacks they should be fast, longrange charges (see iBerserker). There F keys would have CDs from 10-60 seconds, so they arent something that are meant to be spammed all day like like pets currently do with their AA.

Really I’d like like them to be more like phantasms/flesh golem, because neither of these have issues hitting their targets simply by virtue of them having big infrequent attacks which are fast moving, unlike pets now which just slowly wander about (or in the case of ranged pets fire slow moving projectiles which usually miss, unlike iDuelists).

This would all also mean shouts would need to be reworked, sicne they wouldnt make much sense with the new pet mechanics, which means our shouts can be turned into more team support based utilities like shouts on other professions are. And before you know it pets are cool, useful, and rangers have group support.

Allie Murdock.8152:

We recognize there are a number of issues with the pet AI and general functionality, so that is something that will come first. Rangers are first and foremost a pet class,

I’m not necessarily opposed to the idea of pets remaining the primary mechanic of the class, but in order for this to work, the pet must be fundamentally controllable by the player. Ideally the player would have a range of control options from course-grained to fine-grained, where if the player wants to, they can leave a bunch of things up to the AI, but if the player doesn’t want to, they can choose to micromanage the pet.

The fundamental issue is this: the AI is almost certainly going to be far worse at doing what I want it to do than I will be at making it do what I want it to do. Please provide me the capability to override the AI and make the pet follow my orders exactly as my character does. If you can do that, I have no problem with the pet. If that is not do-able, then we will probably continue to have issues with the Ranger underperforming other classes and being frustrating to play.

Allie Murdock.8152:

but they are also great skirmishers and some of the best sustained long range damage.

Again, not necessarily a problem in itself, but affected by other issues in the game: sustained damage currently means nothing in non-PvE. As a Ranger, I do not have the capability to either survive long enough for the sustained damage to matter, or to consistently position myself relative to my opponent for the sustained damage to matter. This is particularly true in WvW— in my experience (other than pitched zerg fights, like zerg vs poorly-manned tower), most engagements last a minute or less, at which point the outcome is decided because you’ve been closed on or most of your group has been downed. Sustained damage doesn’t really fit into that time-window because you’re already being overwhelmed by the time it comes into play. Please keep this in mind while considering this being one of the core ideas behind the class.

SkiTz.4590:

I would guarantee you the poll would show majority of the rangers want perma-stow options that give us different buffs instead….that + make some changes to the trait line and everyone will be happy and anet would not have to put too much work into accomplishing this…

For the sake of discussion, I have to ask: Do you (not just you, anyone please chime in) feel that those two changes (perma-stow w/buffs + traitline cleanup) would make rangers desired in WvW?

I don’t think so (pending on what sort of buffs the ranger received). We have to look into why groups don’t want rangers to answer that question. Is it because our pet is always dead? No. Is it because of our build limitations? No, I don’t think so.

I think it’s because we can’t offer the group anything that they can’t get from someone else. We don’t have burst, AoE, or utility (portals, stealth, etc).

((Recently there were a batch of “leaked” elites that were, most likely, very fake. The ranger’s one was a signet that allowed them to have all signet actives apply to the ranger (same as the traited version, but without having to spend the trait points). If this was changed to, say, allows signets to effect the ranger AND 4 more targets in range, this would be a fantastic skill that would increase the demand for rangers dramatically! And boy would it be fun for us. ))

Not sure if this was already proposed, but by merging some suggestions could you guys see ranger take on a new role in pvp, that of a point capper based on the following.

Remorsless is moved to grandmaster minor in Marksmanship making place for a new grandmaster in Skirmishing. Adding on to a trait revolving around poisons.

Withering poisons.

When the ranger applies poison to its target, 3 boons are stripped from the target. ICD of 30 seconds.

Undertaker.7451:

Game mode
PvX
Proposal Goal
improved Pets to acceptable level
Proposal Functionality
- base pet speed is base character speed +25%
- slighty longer range to pet attacks and/or very short distance leap on all pet attacks

(enemy will have to actualy have to keep an eye on pets to avoid being hit from it. With smart movement enemy will be able to avoid most pet attacks, with swiftnes he will be able to outrun the pet. At this time everyone is just ignoring ranger pets because they cant get hit from them in most cases anyways)

- pets cannot be damaged if they are not targeted
(I dont mind my pet to be killed very fast IF someone want to focus on pet, but that should not happen from randome cleave/aoe, again, this would force enemy to pay attention to our pets and not just ignoring it)

- improvements to pet response to commands
- all 4 skills pet skills should be controlable with assigned key

Associated Risks
-none

With those few small/(easy?) changes Id consider pets fixed.
I would like to hear everyones oppinion about pets being damaged only when targeted(pvp/www) or took agroo(pve).

Brilliant !

That would actualy solve most of pet problems;
pet wouldnt die to random aoe or cleave (no need to aoe damage reduction for pets), pets wouldnt be 1-hit killed in dungeons unless they pull agro, pet would better hit moving targets and be more responsive.

I love it.

Every time I read that ‘great sustained damage’ comment I get scared. It just seems like the extreme lack of burst and AE this class has is intended, which then means that a power option for this class will forever be irrelevent outside of PvE because burst and AE are all that matters.

I’m also not sure what kind of damage you think we’re capable of, but the numbers have shown our ranged DPS is about half of what every other melee class is capable of doing nothing but spamming their auto attack (which isn’t their maximum potential).

And then we have the very real problem that sustained damage is boring!

Allie, can you tell us what you think we should be capable of doing at range so maybe we can provide some targetted discussion on why we agree/disagree and why what we have now simply isn’t working?

The one thing I want to take out of this CDI thread more than ANYTHING is the assurance that a power Ranger will be a real thing in this game.

Atherakhia.4086:

Every time I read that ‘great sustained damage’ comment I get scared. It just seems like the extreme lack of burst and AE this class has is intended, which then means that a power option for this class will forever be irrelevent outside of PvE because burst and AE are all that matters.

I’m also not sure what kind of damage you think we’re capable of, but the numbers have shown our ranged DPS is about half of what every other melee class is capable of doing nothing but spamming their auto attack (which isn’t their maximum potential).

And then we have the very real problem that sustained damage is boring!

Allie, can you tell us what you think we should be capable of doing at range so maybe we can provide some targetted discussion on why we agree/disagree and why what we have now simply isn’t working?

The one thing I want to take out of this CDI thread more than ANYTHING is the assurance that a power Ranger will be a real thing in this game.

When I think about sustained damage, I think about the warrior. If I’m thinking about the ranger, crappy damage is the only thing that comes in my mind.

Let me throw out a crazy idea. Firstly, I just want to say again that some pets should specialize more in buffs and passivity, like having spirits as pets or something. Secondly, I feel everyones issue with pets is not that they don’t like pets, pets are just unreliable. Honestly, I think pets are in a good spot in PvP, they just need responsiveness touch ups all around. Anyway, a crazy idea hit me. What if pets were invulnerable but couldn’t hold agro? I mean, it is crazy, but I feel like if people pets were not so keen to running around a dying, that people would enjoy having them around more. I mean, with the exception of long term tanking and one hit kills, pets do a good job of living through most content. However, if they get agro in FoTM or partake in a WvW zerg they simply die. Why not just extend their life the rest of the way and add a mechanic that balances out their invulnerability. Also, spirits should be pets, passive pets would be awesome. If they had non offesnsive abilities (we need to be able to use our pets abilities) then we could provide more support by using their skillsbars.
[EDIT]
Nvm me, do everything Undertaker.7451 posted

How far are you / the game devs willing to go, regarding a pet rework?

In a recent stream, it was announced that higher-level pet control would be too demanding for the average player. Is that a major concern, or would you guys be willing to introduce complex mechanics that would not necessarily be as easy to “master” as the current pet?

Allie Murdock.8152:

The Ranger isn’t expected to do burst damage. By sustained, we mean that the Ranger should excel at surviving (resilient) through burst while still doing enough damage over time to take the opponent down.

But that doesn’t matter in the current PvE meta!
Nobody cares about the ranger beeing able to kite like a mad man.
Damage is the only maxim. And we’re lacking of it.

Regarding petcontrol:

If you’ve played FF12, you may remember the gambitsystem.
Thats exactly how I want to control my pet.
For those who don’t know what I mean:
The gambits where an easy and fast way to “programm” the AI of your characters.
They are arranged according to their hierarchy.

As example: The first instruction (gambit) will be executed as long as the requirement is given (e.g. “retreat when below 20% HP”). If the requirement is not given, the second instruction will be executed as long as its requirement is given (e.g. “attack nearest foe”). So you can not only control how your pet will behave in certain situations but also remap your F1-F3 keys.

Allie Murdock.8152:

jewishjoyride.4693:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Hey everyone,

Before things get out of hand, I want to address the aspect idea so we can move on. First of all, it’s a great idea, but there are many current issues with the profession that need to be addressed first. Our priorities to make the pet a more viable option will likely remain higher than giving an option to “permastow” the pet.

We recognize there are a number of issues with the pet AI and general functionality, so that is something that will come first. Rangers are first and foremost a pet class, but they are also great skirmishers and some of the best sustained long range damage.

I don’t want you to think we’re going to ignore the idea or the feedback around the pet, but it could very well be the case that fixing some of the major nagging issues with the pet would make it a more desirable aspect of the Ranger.

That said, if you would like to consider discussing the aspect idea, I ask that you start a thread outside of the CDI to brainstorm.

Thanks so much for all the great, constructive feedback everyone! Let’s keep it coming!

If rangers truly are seen as the Pet class of GW2 then the devs need to be devoting time to handing more active control of the pet to the player. Currently if you look at other classes that are able to summon minions we really only have maybe one more level of control compared to them. This biggest difference between us and them is that our pets are mandatory.

Please please please give us more active control of our pets abilities in combat. Current f keys could be redesigned. You could also more closely link weapon skills to pet behaviour/ability (some weapons already have this a little bit). You could do a combination of these 2 ideas (that would be really exciting). Or who knows how else you could solve the problem?

As long as the pet is 90% tied to an ai though Rangers will be seriously kitten.

That is exactly my point. We want to make sure we’ve done everything we can to make the pet desirable before we consider any options for those that don’t want to play with the pet as much.

Doing everything y’all can to make the pet desireable means rewriting the pet AI to be independent. If y’all aren’t welling to do everything that you can, then give us the option to opt out. Y’all have been tweaking with band-aids since launch and it seems the box is empty.

If I’ve said it once I’ve said it a thousand times that everything else wrong with the Ranger takes a back seat until the class mechanic is properly fixed.

If you’re using bows, your pet has to close the distance first (1), it has to stay in range of the target(2), it isn’t influenced by buffs (nourishment or stacking sigils)(3), most of our conditionremoves just shift the condition to our pet(4), which would allow is to deal damage but hinders our pet to deal damage(5).
To put it simple: With a pet you have the same chance of success as without but you have a doubled chance of failure.

1) Yes, the pet has to close the distance first, but a standard DoT doesn’t start dealing damage until the attack lands either, I’d love to be able to start a fight with my Thief with 25 bleed stacks on the enemy, but it takes me at least a few seconds to stack those up. So expecting the pet to start dealing damage before your first attack lands is a bit unreasonable and unnecessary.

2) I hope my suggestion in the previous post would help with that, but in any case, if an enemy is actively trying to avoid the pet all the time, that’s a perk of its own since it means they can’t post up and use stationary attacks.

3) It doesn’t really have to be effected by those buffs so long as the default stats are balanced well enough, but I would not be opposed to them making those buffs work on pets if possible. Not a game breaker either way.

If absolutely necessary, maybe Rangers could have a relatively easy to get trait that would give them a slight bonus return on food (since they are mighty survivalists), like if a foot gives you +100 Power, a Ranger could get +105 Power from it or something (whatever balances out).

4) Rangers totally need better Condi removal, but that’s not a pet issue, that’s a Ranger issue.

5) If pets can deal damage after death, then in most cases passing conditions to them won’t reduce their DPS, just the movement imparing/slowing ones would, and thats still not that bad, no different than an enemy giving you Weakness or Chill.

That’s just it, any fix that would allow the pet to ignore attacks, assuming they fix melee on top, would break the game. A ranger would set the pet on someone then just build to dodge away. They’d never even have to fire a shot to take down someone.

If a Ranger can effectively avoid all incoming damage during a fight then he deserves to win. It’s no different than any other Condi build. I really can’t imagine how a Ranger would be able to avoid all incoming damage like that though. They could also tweak it so that a “dead” pet does return to the Ranger if the Ranger is more than 1500 range away for any length of time, meaning if you want it to keep attacking you would have to maintain a reasonable range to the target.

Besides, I really don’t think that people would have perma-stowed pets throughout the game. Pets offer too many advantages outside of these problematic encounters.

I don’t see how it could be balanced. If they make it so that a Rasnger with a stowed pet is buffed to the point that they don’t whine about how useless the mechanic is, then they will be strong enough that plenty of Rangers will forgo the currently troublesome pets entirely, and those that refuse to will be treated as pariahs for dragging their annoying pet along. If they balance them to less than that, then people will just keep whining about having to use their pets. Pets need to be fixed first, otherwise pets will only be used when soloing or in towns.

. Furthermore, the pet is the only classmechanic with drawbacks attached to it.

That’s simply not true. Rather it’s a matter of skewed perspective. You see yourself as entitled to the pet’s damage, that everything the pet brings is something you should have by default, and the pet steals it from you. This is not the case. EVERY class relies on their core mechanic to deal their optimal damage, EVERY class is weakened by ignoring that core mechanic, and has negatives that are used to balance the core mechanic’s benefits. The Ranger core mechanic isn’t working as well as it should in some cases, so it’s more noticeable that it’s not keeping up, but that doesn’t mean that other classes have no potential drawbacks to their core mechanics.

If you use DS you know what drawbacks you gonna take. Furthermore you have the full control when you want to use DS (and accept its weaknesses) and when not.

But the Necro is balanced to make use of the DS mechanic. A Necro without using DS is weaker than a Ranger using even out broken pets. Nobody is arguing that the current implementation of pets needs work, but once fixed, the base idea that a pet makes up a portion of the Ranger’s DPS is not an inherently bad one.

The defining characteristic of a ranger is not a pet. Maybe for you it is but in the big picture a ranger is a mashup.

You’re giving outside definitions of what a Ranger is. Those are irrelevant. The GW2 definition of a Range is “they use a pet.” End of story.

SafiMoyo.5130:

SkiTz.4590:

I would guarantee you the poll would show majority of the rangers want perma-stow options that give us different buffs instead….that + make some changes to the trait line and everyone will be happy and anet would not have to put too much work into accomplishing this…

For the sake of discussion, I have to ask: Do you (not just you, anyone please chime in) feel that those two changes (perma-stow w/buffs + traitline cleanup) would make rangers desired in WvW?

I don’t think so (pending on what sort of buffs the ranger received). We have to look into why groups don’t want rangers to answer that question. Is it because our pet is always dead? No. Is it because of our build limitations? No, I don’t think so.

I think it’s because we can’t offer the group anything that they can’t get from someone else. We don’t have burst, AoE, or utility (portals, stealth, etc).

((Recently there were a batch of “leaked” elites that were, most likely, very fake. The ranger’s one was a signet that allowed them to have all signet actives apply to the ranger (same as the traited version, but without having to spend the trait points). If this was changed to, say, allows signets to effect the ranger AND 4 more targets in range, this would be a fantastic skill that would increase the demand for rangers dramatically! And boy would it be fun for us. ))

Trait cleanup would help, but I personally do not think perma-stowing the pet would help. It is simply side-stepping the real issue here. I can see so much potential with the pets.

Imagine:
*Pets who avoid AOE automatically by going around red rings and running out of red rings
*Pets who dodge when their owners dodge
*Pets with more utility
-a bat with an F2 that provides an AOE reveal for nearby thieves
-a pet with an F2 that provides an AOE stealth
*Pets that can hit players/mobs while moving
*Pets that can jump up onto small ledges with their owners
*Pets that can jump down from small ledges with their owners
*Pets that can be revived, instead of waiting for a minute to swap it out
*Pets that can revive dead players, not just downed players
*Pets that prioritize the F2 skill being pressed
*Pets on passive that don’t run 20 feet ahead of you

If these could be addressed, I think the class would be more popular in both PvE and WvW.

thefantasticg.3984:

Allie Murdock.8152:

jewishjoyride.4693:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Hey everyone,

Before things get out of hand, I want to address the aspect idea so we can move on. First of all, it’s a great idea, but there are many current issues with the profession that need to be addressed first. Our priorities to make the pet a more viable option will likely remain higher than giving an option to “permastow” the pet.

We recognize there are a number of issues with the pet AI and general functionality, so that is something that will come first. Rangers are first and foremost a pet class, but they are also great skirmishers and some of the best sustained long range damage.

I don’t want you to think we’re going to ignore the idea or the feedback around the pet, but it could very well be the case that fixing some of the major nagging issues with the pet would make it a more desirable aspect of the Ranger.

That said, if you would like to consider discussing the aspect idea, I ask that you start a thread outside of the CDI to brainstorm.

Thanks so much for all the great, constructive feedback everyone! Let’s keep it coming!

If rangers truly are seen as the Pet class of GW2 then the devs need to be devoting time to handing more active control of the pet to the player. Currently if you look at other classes that are able to summon minions we really only have maybe one more level of control compared to them. This biggest difference between us and them is that our pets are mandatory.

Please please please give us more active control of our pets abilities in combat. Current f keys could be redesigned. You could also more closely link weapon skills to pet behaviour/ability (some weapons already have this a little bit). You could do a combination of these 2 ideas (that would be really exciting). Or who knows how else you could solve the problem?

As long as the pet is 90% tied to an ai though Rangers will be seriously kitten.

That is exactly my point. We want to make sure we’ve done everything we can to make the pet desirable before we consider any options for those that don’t want to play with the pet as much.

Doing everything y’all can to make the pet desireable means rewriting the pet AI to be independent. If y’all aren’t welling to do everything that you can, then give us the option to opt out. Y’all have been tweaking with band-aids since launch and it seems the box is empty.

That’s the question. Is the team willing to make drastic changes to improve pets, or is it going to be a tweak here and a buff there? Would they attempt a significant overall of the system?

Allie Murdock.8152:

The Ranger isn’t expected to do burst damage. By sustained, we mean that the Ranger should excel at surviving (resilient) through burst while still doing enough damage over time to take the opponent down.

Which is exactly what ANY profession does when it’s not doing something better.

In what fashion is the Ranger actually good at this? because your basically saying doing good DPS and getting the job done promptly makes a profession not a “skirmisher”…

Have read full discussion Yes

Specific Game Mode
effectively all

Restatement of Ranger Problem

It’s our lack of effective defense in the upper lines Spvp – Tpvp non bunker issue
It’s our lack of a non-redundant group benefit

WvW – S&TPVP – It’s not damage it’s only 1 line having a powerful GM Defensive trait and that the defensive benefits of pets don’t exist in group PvE, pvp aspects of game.

evidence of power of defensive traits making rangers functional
Success of multiple tank builds BM, Spirit, etc….
Pet menagerie Body Block Benefits

When we get more survivable we get effective.
A way to share that survivability if it is unique provides group desirability(needs availability in power builds.)

Proposal Overview
<add a buff similar to opening strikes to skirmishing> Our aura spirit aspect etc…unlike opening strike it opens in conjunction with the 15 point trait in skirmishing – not instantly available or freely available balance purposes.

Skirmishing – Aspect of the Wind – You and your pet avoid the next attack against you – consumes it of course.

At the GM trait level both GM traits create an opportunity to reproc the aspect on you with a delay of 3-5 seconds between potential reprocs on crit. MoC recharges on daze/stun, Traps reproc on crit (traps direct damage crits but is small and worthless, not after this a driver of a bubble shield proc and weapon crits now have great value to trap builds of the mixed power/condition or pure condition variety)

Our while wielding an axe skill is highly subpar but it is an AOE weapon. I would suggest it be changed from +10% crit damage to -

Honed Axes change becomes

Share the Wind
Share your aspect of the wind with those around you while wielding an axe in mainhand or offhand.

Mainhand – trap builds condition based great benefit but need the GM trigger to cycle benefit on crit.

Offhand – Sword/Axe in a dungeon setting share aspect of the wind on crit around me.

Control of Power Risk

Bladeturns are powerful defensive abilities however the games condition power system somewhat mutes that. i.e. condition damage once applied keeps ticking but the aspect would prevent condition applicaiton on missed hits.

Can it be countered by skill
From a competitive PvP aspect yes. You can see the buff on ranger add a visual that clues in people, use a weak attack to pierce the wind followed by stun etc…..

Numbers ovewhelm blade turns and underlying glass armor values make you melt. Good 1v1 not overpowered if timing of reproc potential is set right.

Weaknesses of ranger and pet it counters
Pets get better defensively avoiding an attack entirely pve and spvp benefit only real powerful a full 30 in skirmishing however.

You can bring a unique group benefit via the shared aspect and if traited 30 skirmishing. More powerful in a trap build than MoC as MoC has better burst. (enabling differentiation of scope of benefit based on offensive threat)

Rangers soft CC’s don’t do so well against all the leaps closers etc… Making those miss on opening attack which this skill would makes rangers initially slippery. However a small ranged shot to pierce quick charge gets through.(skill counter)

Final Benefit
Nerfs happen to overpowered attacks that leave people feeling helpless more damage is always risky. More defense makes your existing damage acceptable and functional. I need time on target to damage ratio.

Final Note
I’m a more power LB trap condition/power oriented ranger. While I know an Aspect of the land would be great in Wilderness survival and I expect it should be an apply torment for extra damage I think the heavy bunker players would be better suited at an aspect discussion of any other lines and what traits. I think the combo of Precision sharing plus bubble/blade turn sharing in a power build makes an awesome PvE group benefit.

A whittling ranger becomes viable by forcing his opponent to also whittle

Since so many people talk about perma stow ill talk about keeping it up. My ranger been a 30 pt BM since launch and ive NEVER had issue with pet having trouble to hit a boss or not. Pet survivality remains a problem nonetheless and as a general rule despite the fact targets doesnt move in pve it still deal so little damage and bring so little to the team save for that slight dps its hardly Worth it..

Specific Game Mode
PVE and Spvp

Proposal Overview

Pet is constantly taking lethal aoe hit scale poorly with ranger gear is actualy specialised at nothing specificaly save for behing a distraction and actualy lack personnalisation. The shouts wich is used to beef it up are totaly selfish if not actualy self detrimental my proposition here is to actualy make all those mechanics usefull at once.

Goal of Proposal

Giving traited and untraited pet some actual usefullness without removing it allow rangers to fill a damaging or a condition damage role as a pet trait specialist all the same as a non pet user. This also aim to make shout actualy usefull party wide and make pet viable in pve dungeons.

Proposal Functionality

1. Give pet the evasion effect for the dodge duration at the same time ranger is dodging. This allow to reduce the pet HP bar by a large amount in compensation and provide them some survival option against Map covering red circle and mechanics of the like that normaly 1 shot an untraited pet and 3 shot even the traited Brown bear.

2. Give pet a static set of stat then instead of adding +10 per trait point into BM line give it a percentage of the master total base stat (Vitality, power, condition damage, ferocity, Healing power, thoughness) I subjest 30 to 45%

3. Give shouts meaningfull teamplay application. While sic em is usefull as a pet damage booster what can we say of guard, protect me and search and rescue? So here are concept i thought about.

-Sic em: Same as before but also add pet a haste effect that last for 5 second

-Guard: The zone the pet is guarding provide a recurent protection buff to up to 5 unit or player in the area it is guarding (about the same size as the previous guard) Pet gains no buff

-Protect me: Allow pet to keep dealing damage while defending you and reduce damage you take by 50% for the duration of the effect (also call pet back to your position) pet take 25% of the damage you are ignoring as a result (no more pet sacrifice yet the ranger can STILL be damaged) Give pet swiftness

-Search and rescue: keep the current fonctionnality but allows the pet to also rush to nearby target and help it recover from a crowd control while procing it aegis and protection for a small duration (break the nearest friendly target crowd control) If used to revive a player double the cooldown.

Associated Risks
While all those buff to shouts and pet stat looks powerfull they are viable only when a ranger is heavily traited in 30 pt of Beast mastery wich effectively force it out of using these same point into a damage line such as marksmanship or skirmishing. Moreover a beastmaster will likely always deal way less personnal damage then an actual petraitless ranger who entirely dedicated to his personnal damage. Traiting in nature magic for the regeneration shout do proc ranger regeneration but force them out of the 20 base point required in skirmishing to actualy gain both the 30% increased critical damage to pet and the might on critical hit to them. Running less trait in Beast mastery also means a weaker pet stat scaling so ranger will have to choose wichever path they will take. Since pet stat are now tied to the ranger gear it will no longuer be possible to run a Ranger tank with heavy pet damage.

Pet are AI and by default are their own counterplay. AI are limited by jumping/walls/invisibility/stuns (no stun breaker for them). Im not proposing anything related to increasing the pet AI. Im well aware that beside improving the pet attack reach its totaly out of possibility to make it hit everytime it scores a blow neither is it possible to reduce the F2 casting time, as a GOOD ranger who actualy plays his pet for real will keep a foe constantly frozen or crippled i have no concern about the viability of such build in pvp long as the player is actualy using an axe or a longbow to keep his target pined to the ground and unable to move out of pet clawing reach.

The overall results

Shouting rangers becomes a viable source of partywide boons such as protection and even regeneration, Pet traiting becomes a viable spec as an alternate to selfish traiting, Pet become usefull even when untraited (shouts can be used effectively reguardless of specialisation) and stop dying constantly in boss encounter because it now can ’’evade’’ boss attack when the ranger time his own dodge right.

I’m getting very concerned reading this thread since I posted last time in it.

. . . it seems I’m playing the ranger all wrong since I’m actually, well, using a pet with skills and it doesn’t end badly. I’ve used a pet to tank Warden II by having it keep agro and save others with “Search and Rescue” later.

It seems I’m playing it wrong by picking out targets in WvW different than what the rest of the zerg or major group is doing and making efforts to contain or harass rather than get in there and soak damage like the rest.

It seems I am one of the few who likes how Point Blank Shot works.

And it seems what other people want to turn the ranger into is going to force me out of playing my class.

Game Mode:
PvX

Proposal Overview
Pet Family specific Traits in the Beastmaster line

Goal of Proposal
Increase viability and worth of Master traits in Beastmaster line

Proposal Functionality
Remove the family restrictions from all family based traits in the Beastmaster line.

Associated Risks
Some of the traits could over power some pets or pet combinations, though I doubt it.

Allie Murdock.8152:

The Ranger isn’t expected to do burst damage. By sustained, we mean that the Ranger should excel at surviving (resilient) through burst while still doing enough damage over time to take the opponent down.

No offense intended, but this idea is a huge problem in the current meta. I can survive great in PvE, that’s not an issue. The problem is that I can’t get anything done. Same issue in WvW— I can survive great until the person attacking me gets their second or third spike off or calls their friends. In the mean time, they’ve dodged or healed all of my low-level damage. Failing that, they see they can’t kill me and I can’t kill them, we have a stalemate and he runs away.

Edit I suppose that could work if enough reworking was done to the rest of the class abilities that would give a lot of hard CC or making Ranger damage harder to heal or avoid. Maybe something like the very potent poisons idea that’s been proposed elsewhere in this thread.

Nike.2631:

Allie Murdock.8152:

The Ranger isn’t expected to do burst damage. By sustained, we mean that the Ranger should excel at surviving (resilient) through burst while still doing enough damage over time to take the opponent down.

Which is exactly what ANY profession does when it’s not doing something better.

In what fashion is the Ranger actually good at this? because your basically saying doing good DPS and getting the job done promptly makes a profession not a “skirmisher”…

I swear I thought the necro was the best at sustained damage while doing small bursts. Though while I personally don’t usually ever die to necros, every necro I have met in WvW sure can keep the pressure on a player with sustained damage, whether it be condition stacking or autoattacks with the occasional burst damage.

Game mode
PvP (but goes for any)
Proposal Goal
Give more control to pet skills

• Proposal Functionality*
  – let player set pet skills on auto attack or turn it off (like you can do on first skill of player). Then old functionality could be retained, but this gives an option to use any pet skill manually if you want.
  Of course first, skills should be fixed so they would trigger the moment you pressed, not when the pet feels like it.
  
  Associated Risks
  -none

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I’m getting very concerned reading this thread since I posted last time in it.

. . . it seems I’m playing the ranger all wrong since I’m actually, well, using a pet with skills and it doesn’t end badly. I’ve used a pet to tank Warden II by having it keep agro and save others with “Search and Rescue” later.

It seems I’m playing it wrong by picking out targets in WvW different than what the rest of the zerg or major group is doing and making efforts to contain or harass rather than get in there and soak damage like the rest.

It seems I am one of the few who likes how Point Blank Shot works.

And it seems what other people want to turn the ranger into is going to force me out of playing my class.

I’m with you, don’t worry. I use the pet to my advantage all the time. I think rangers were great in Warden II, as long as they knew how to handle their pet. Point blank shot works fine. Pets have been nerfed in search and rescue. They used to be able to revive dead players, and now they can only revive downed players. I would like to see this reverted. Also, rangers used to be able to revive dead pets, but now dead pets can only be swapped out. As for zergs in WvW, sometimes I run with the zerg, and sometimes I don’t, but when I do run with the zerg, even if I am in the back with my pet on passive, my pet is going to die just due to the fact it will literally stand in AOE 10 feet away from me as I try to maneuver it out of danger, only to have it go stand in another AOE circle 5 feet away from me.

Allie Murdock.8152:

The Ranger isn’t expected to do burst damage. By sustained, we mean that the Ranger should excel at surviving (resilient) through burst while still doing enough damage over time to take the opponent down.

Then we have a very serious problem here because your vision of the class will never allow it to function at anything outside of a condi playstyle. This is the design decision we need to address in this CDI and the pet can now sit on the back burner until we get this resolved.

Allie, how is any class supposed to earn a spot in an organized group if all they can provide that group is a reliable 1.5k damage every second to a single target? That’s all you’ve given a Longbow Ranger in the current WvW meta. Auto attack at max range is the highest damage it has.

This is why they’re on everyone’s list sitting at 8th place out of 8 classes in WvW. The class simply doesn’t do anything.

Allie Murdock.8152:

The Ranger isn’t expected to do burst damage. By sustained, we mean that the Ranger should excel at surviving (resilient) through burst while still doing enough damage over time to take the opponent down.

I don’t really like that. It does sound like uninteresting gameplay—for this game, specifically.

More importantly though, it doesn’t really work in PvE where enemies and bosses can down you in a single hit. I can see it being a thing in PvP, but not many people are complaining about the stance of the class in that game mode.

In wvw, I can survive like a madman with the GS and signets traited. But they still don’t want me

Atherakhia.4086:

Allie Murdock.8152:

The Ranger isn’t expected to do burst damage. By sustained, we mean that the Ranger should excel at surviving (resilient) through burst while still doing enough damage over time to take the opponent down.

Then we have a very serious problem here because your vision of the class will never allow it to function at anything outside of a condi playstyle. This is the design decision we need to address in this CDI and the pet can now sit on the back burner until we get this resolved.

The joke is that the Ranger’s survivability isn’t that great outside of specific outlier builds like regen condi bunker, so he gets low damage and not that much survivability to make up for it.

Allie Murdock.8152:

The Ranger isn’t expected to do burst damage. By sustained, we mean that the Ranger should excel at surviving (resilient) through burst while still doing enough damage over time to take the opponent down.

Unfortunately, most people in WvW realize when they are slowly losing to a ranger, and they run away. Then we (the ranger) realize we can’t do enough damage to kill them before they’re long gone.

Coulndt add this to my line as the post was way over 500 letter but ill put it bluntly. Ranger lacks a decent damaging source that isnt sword auto attack has pathetic party buffing (I must trait spec 20 into marksmanship for such a BAD buff just because i got nothing else and everyone wants at least one or two buff? I also need to waste trait point and a utility slot to frost spirit wich is only worthwhile because its cooldown between buffing is bugged and as a end result to behing fixed would only be good for removing from the game) and the main mechanics wich is pet actualy doesnt work in any usefull way even when dedicated to it save for reviving people and getting itself killed in your stead. While i can apreciate the principe of fodder unit such as minion pets doesnt come in bunch of 6 that can be sacrificed like pawns for the group greater goods. Is Anet ranger pet considered a sacrificial unit? I dont think so but right now its prety much the only purpose it can fill right.

Behing constantly shunned for actualy dedicating my class and my time to playing my Beast master ranger on the same level as elite builds sometime realy makes me want to just delete my tier 3 geared character. Right now ranger is not a nature magic user, neither is it a beastmaster or a archer, the only path meta actualy brand us for is limited to spamming auto attack with a sword denying anything our pet may provide and dodging when you about to get hurt. This is no defrent from shortbow 1 spamming reguardless of what people may pretend. If i wanted to spam a sword auto attack id be running a warrior not a versatile ranger, my deemed useless build use about both weapon slot chains and up to 7 skill all at once (no utility included) to beef up the pet as much as possible yet this guy who is spamming 1 deals better damage then i do. Someone in this forum stated it quite well as ‘’spam to win’’, i think ranger is more then this.

Atherakhia.4086:

Allie Murdock.8152:

The Ranger isn’t expected to do burst damage. By sustained, we mean that the Ranger should excel at surviving (resilient) through burst while still doing enough damage over time to take the opponent down.

Then we have a very serious problem here because your vision of the class will never allow it to function at anything outside of a condi playstyle. This is the design decision we need to address in this CDI and the pet can now sit on the back burner until we get this resolved.

Agree. I’m getting sick of using condition builds (as there is no other real viable builds in PvP). I’m trying various combinations, but all end up in survival tree having 30 points… No diversity – no fun. We are not robots, let us play the way we want not the ‘only’ way that is possible to play.

Allie Murdock.8152:

The Ranger isn’t expected to do burst damage. By sustained, we mean that the Ranger should excel at surviving (resilient) through burst while still doing enough damage over time to take the opponent down.

Would you (anet) be willing to change that design philosophy around? Because the class you having been designing is not the class a lot of us thought we have been playing.
Are you guys thoroughly against adding burst capability to rangers? Every other class has burst capability so why not ranger? Like someone else mentioned sustained isn’t important outside of pve and even in pve our sustain isn’t good. Ranged Dps is unwanted and uneeded in pve

And really the only way to actually fix pets is to rework and seperate its AI from general monster AI. Also give it aoe protection, boost stats to ascended and give it the pve hp boost in wvw.

Maybe you guys should have called this class a hunter instead of ranger because it doesn’t really resemble the idea of ranger from launch or gw1.

Weapons

Hunter’s Call (Warhorn 4)
Stops doing damage if LOS (Line of Sight) is blocked (even if you simply turn around). It should be fire-and-forget. Only check line-of-sight once at the start.

Bonfire (Torch 5)
Only hits 3 targets. It should hit 5 targets.

Kick and Pounce (Sword 1)
Auto-attack leaps prevent the use of the basic dodging mechanic. It’s a basic game mechanic, it should not be disabled on auto-attack of any weapon in the game. Find a way to improve that.

Call of the Wild (Warhorn 5)
Can cause the pet to attack. The skill doesn’t have any offensive properties, it only has buffs. It should not try to initiate combat.

Skills

Viper’s Nest
Only hits 3 targets. It should hit 5 targets.

Call Lightning (Storm Spirit active)
Only hits 3 targets. It should hit 5 targets.

Sic ’em
Buff on pet is removed if the pet is given another order. For example, it’s removed when using its special ability (F2) or when changing its target. Unlike the other shouts, it’s always a negative effect if the Sic ‘em buff breaks. Don’t do any checks to break Sic ’em.

Guard
The command to guard the area gets cancelled if the pet is told to do anything else. It’s the same for other shouts. Sic ’m suffers the most from it, but some consider it an issue with Guard as well.

Spike Trap (tooltip fix?)
Tooltip states “Pulses three times when triggered”, but it only triggers once.

Guard (tooltip fix?)
Tooltip states “Command your pet to aggressively guard an area. Your pet gains stealth and protection for the duration of the skill”. The duration is listed as 180 seconds but the stealth and protection are only 10 seconds, so slightly misleading.

Traits

Concentration Training (Nature Magic II)
Requires the pet to be in combat mode. The Ranger being in combat mode is not enough. It shouldn’t require combat mode on the Ranger nor the pet. It’s a buff trait.

Compassion Training (Beastmastery IV)
Requires the pet to be in combat mode. The Ranger being in combat mode is not enough. It shouldn’t require combat mode on the Ranger nor the pet. It’s a buff trait.

Malicious Training (Marksmanship II).
Shares the same problem as other training traits: only works when pet is in combat. Very annoying as it doesn’t apply its effects to pet’s first attack/skill when it engages combat. Also fails to apply its effects when using F2 right after swapping pets.

Pet’s Prowess (Skirmishing I)
See Malicious Training.

Expertise Training (Wilderness Survival V)
See Malicious Training.

Mighty Swap (Beastmastery VI)
The pet does not get 6 stacks of might if used in combination with Fortifying Bond (Nature Magic 15 points), which states: “any boon you get is shared with your pet”.

Mighty Swap (Beastmastery VI)
Requires the Ranger to be in combat mode. Adding a 15 second internal cooldown would prevent out-of-combat abuse.

Tail Wind (Skirmishing 5 points)
Requires the Ranger to be in combat mode. It already has a 9 second internal cooldown to prevent out-of-combat abuse.

Furious Grip (Skirmishing 10 points)
Requires the Ranger to be in combat mode. It already has a 9 second internal cooldown to prevent out-of-combat abuse.

Furious Grip (Skirmishing 10 points) (tooltip fix?)
Tooltip says it gives 9 seconds of Fury, but it only gives 5 seconds.

Spotter (Marksman VII)
Requires the Ranger to be in combat mode. Again, preventing it from being applied to the first hit entering combat.

Companion’s Defense (Wilderness Survival 15 points)
Requires the Ranger to be in combat mode. It’s already limited by how often a Ranger can dodge.

Master’s Bond (Beastmastery II)
Stacks are lost when the Ranger goes in or out of the water. Apply the buff to the Ranger instead of the pet and clear the buff from the Ranger on pet swap or pet death.

Pet class-mechanic

Pet inactive after swapping
The pet is inactive for a few seconds after swapping. This also wastes valuable time on traits such as Zephyr’s Speed and Mighty Swap, which trigger on pet swap.

Pet buff skills don’t prioritize party members
“Skills that buff allies in an AoE now prioritize party members” is not true for pet skills.

Pet special ability (F2)
Doesn’t get used on a target if F2 is used right after swapping pets. This is especially bad if the pet has a leap or any other skill that requires a target.

Pet special ability (F2)
Makes pet attack your selected target after it has finished using the skill. Very annoying when using skills that aren’t direct attacks such as Moas’ F2 abilities or Mighty Roar. They’re buff skills, they shouldn’t initiate combat.

Pet special ability (F2)
Sometimes doesn’t get used, but still goes on full cooldown.

Pet missing WvW bloodlust buff
The WvW bloodlust buff for holding ruins isn’t given to the pet

Combat log
Pet damage is not in the combat log.

Pet names
Pet names revert to Juvenile <pet type> when switched to a different pet

Pet skill tooltips
Pet tooltips are using stats from the Ranger instead of from the pet.

Other

Pet conditions and boons
Are not visible to the Ranger without having the pet selected at your main target. Add them to the HUD.

Excessive pet swap cooldown
If a pet dies, the pet swap ability goes on a 60 seconds cooldown. That’s 3 times longer than the usual 20 seconds. That’s a rather harsh and excessive difference. In some situations there is nothing a player can do to prevent the pet from dying. The next pet is also more likely to die since it has to survive for 60 seconds before it can be swapped instead of the normal 20 seconds.

Whirling Defense (Axe 5)
Does not allow movement.

Pets don’t benefit from Ranger stats
- Pets do not benefit from the Ranger’s equipment.
- Pets don’t benefit from armor tiers. A ranger using ascended equipment has the same pet as someone who’s using exotic or masterwork or nothing.
- Maybe pets should be given their own item slot to solve both.