Guild Wars 2

General:
Rangers need more group utility. Particularly in the upper tiers of dungeons
Give them something similar to shouts. Vague. How? Through utilities, traits, pets, weapon skills? We need more utility and there’s been a lot of suggestions. Again, I’m curious to see what the devs are leaning towards so we can focus some of the vagueness.

Also when looking at group utility, look at our ability to provide reliable AoE and Burst. It’s been a problem that has been mentioned about our class, and I get it that we are supposed to be sustained damage, but we should have one skill, similar to Maul, in other power weapons that offer some form of burst. LB, sword, Axe, should offer something more in the line of AoE and/or burst.

Marksmanship:
III. Keen Edge – Critical hits do +1% damage. Oh god, yes.
IV. Signet Mastery – Grant power similar to Necro Signet Mastery. Why wasn’t this addressed umpteen patches ago?
VII. Spotter – Should be moved to Skirmishing as Gradmaster minor. No. Why would you talk about having to invest so heavily in traits to get useful and then add one of our most group friendly and useful buff to a GM trait. I understand that it’s powerful, but making it GM in skirmishing would force power rangers to go deep into Skirmishing when that’s optional right now. It would practically force 30/30/x builds.
Move it to Skirmishing, fine. I like that, but don’t make it GM.
Rework to 5% crit chance & 3% crit damage if it’s move to GM, ya. If not, it’s fine as is.
X. Eagle Eye – Include shortbow. Provides 200 range and +5% damage on longbow and harpoon gun. (no range bonus for shortbow) I think it should function the same for both bows and harpoon gun. Range and damage for SB please.
XII. Remorseless – Next attack applies 3 stacks of vulnerability for 6s. 16 sec cooldown I don’t know what this means? Remorseless is good as is imo.

Nature Magic:
VIII. Evasive Purity – Dodging removes 1 conditions from you and your pet. (10s cooldown) Sploosh. Yes!

Skirmishing:
Tail Wind – Provides +20% movement speed while in combat. Mmm Hmmm!

Xaylin.1860:

thefantasticg.3984:

…

There might be some aspects which have an individual AI (attacks) but I highly doubt that they have a different AI besides that. Look at their pathing. It is the same (e.g. iLeap, Shatters). I’m not talking about the responsiveness when hitting F1-F4. Shatters only reliably hit your target when you are close to it. Some Illusions also suffer from slow projectiles which can be avoided (Staff Clones, iMage) which is exactly the same issue certain Ranger pets have. And let’s not talk about the broken iWarden.

As said, the issues Elementalists have are different than Rangers. It is more related to cooldowns and access to their skills which is limited due their attunement mechanic.

urdriel.8496:

30% of our raw damage is on our pet,and our skills have less damage coef. due to class mechanic, all other classes dont have this problem, you can you choose to use phantasm or not, but you are not penalized with 30% of your raw damage, pet should be a damage buff, not a damage debuff like is now.

Guess what: A pet class is supposed to have a certain amount of damage and utility linked to their pet. That is why they are a pet class. I’ve never seen this being any different in any MMO I played (DAoC, LotRO).

Mesmers are penalized in form of damage because of their class mechanic. You might want to check their baseline damage without Illusions or Shatters. I can not chose to not use it. I have to use it or I will be inefficient. This is quite obvious when looking at both PvP and PvE. In PvE everyone runs Phantasm builds because their damage would be too low otherwise. In s/tPvP most Mesmers run Shatter because their burst would be too low otherwise.

Elementalists are penalized in form of cooldowns and being locked out of skills.
Necromancers are penalized in a lack of damage mitigation outside of DS.

People really need to get rid of this damsel in distress behaviour.

Guest what?? in all other MMOs with a “beastmaster” their pet was able to hit the enemy players, you can "evade2 50% of a pet attack only using WASD while stomping his master……

Xaylin.1860:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

4. No other classmechanic sets yourself on a disadvantage to justify itself.
5. The pet will never be a reliable damagesource. Therefore, make it additional.

I quote your post because I highly disagree.

First, people need to give up on the ‘Give me 100% damage and make the pet additional’ demand. It is not going to happen as long as the Ranger is the assigned pet class. It is a design decision ANet made if you like it or not. You will have to get over it. Repeating related demands does not contribute anything constructive and productive.

That being said, I already pointed out earlier that there are several other class mechanics which come with disadvantages if you like to admit it or not. Your fourth statement is just not true.

Especially Mesmers are in a very similar situation as Rangers are when it comes to baseline damage and pets. While their class mechanic are Shatters they are linked to Clones and Phantasms. This means that Mesmers as well have a comparibly low baseline damage when excluding the Illusions/Shatters. However, the Mesmer class also shows that an AI heavy class mechanic can work. While an AI is unlikely to reach human capabilities any time soon it still can be reliable. I therefore also disagree with your fifth statement.

I will give you 3 good reasons why you are wrong:

1. Other classes are losing damage if they decide to not use their classmechanic.
   The ranger on the other hand is the only class who still loses damage most times if he decides to play with his pet.
   As Example:
   1. Pets are useless while defending/attacking a fortress in WvW
   2. Pets are useless for the most open-world-bosses
2. Pets can’t be stowed. This is as simple as huge of a problem. Just take the Hologram encounter as example. Engi turrets, Mesmer clones, Necro minions and Ranger pets can ruin your attempt to get the achievement. Yet all classes can choose to not use their AI’s. The ranger is the only one who can’t.
3. So what has to be done, so that the pet is no more a dps loss?
   1. It has to hit the target as soon as you start hitting
   2. It has to stay ontop of the enemy all the time
   3. It mustn’t die
      If you do so, you would’ve created a unique dot. So why don’t give the ranger the damage outright?

Furthermore, I don’t think you’ve understand the meaning of additional. It doesn’t mean that you could play without your pet, I doesn’t mean that the ranger wont be the pet class anymore. It just means that the mandatory damage will be on the ranger and the pet could be focussed more around providing utility and support.

Atleast stop arguing with the mesmer please. There is a reason why only shatterbuilds are viable.
(Hint: Because the illusions are eating up too much damage)
And there are not only mesmers out there.
Warriors aren’t hurt if they don’t use their adrenaline, Engis aren’t hurt if they don’t use their additional skills, Not even Necros are hurt if they don’t use their DS. They lose additional damage, but not more. Same with Guardians. Not even Thiefs lose anythings if they don’t steal.

urdriel.8496:

Guest what?? in all other MMOs with a “beastmaster” their pet was able to hit the enemy players, you can "evade2 50% of a pet attack only using WASD while stomping his master……

And that is why the pet has to be improved and not be removed or damage re-distributed to the Ranger 100%. So how is this an argument against the pet mechanic as a whole? People really need to give ANet a chance to adjust the pet. Should it have be done earlier? Yes! Is them not doing it earlier a reason to reject the pet completely? Nope!

AEFA.9035:

Ltomato.8649:

Specific Game Mode
PvE

Proposal Overview
Potential Longbow Skill Changes (non-overhaul)

Goal of Proposal
Many players feel that the Longbow is an underwhelming weapon. I am offering some non-overhaul skill tweaks, since I (as someone who has put waaaay too much time into longbow ranger) believe that the basic design mechanics of the longbow are sound, unique, and engaging.

Proposal Functionality
s1- Long Range Shot: Increase projectile speed to allow more reliable hits against enemies, as this is a targeted skill and very easy to walk out of the way of at > 1200 range. Doesn’t need to be undodge-able, just more reliable.
: Alternatively- Decrease channel time. The skill would feel more reactive and less “clunky”.

s2- Rapid Fire: Decrease channel time by 1 second while maintaining the damage output. This would make the skill a bit more of a burst of damage, as well as maintaining a higher concentration of vulnerability. (Low cooldown and still comparatively long channel time to damage still allows this to be considered “sustained damage”)

s3-Hunter’s Shot: In addition to current functionality, add 1/2 second of evade on use. This would give the skill more of a use of an escape, providing a better feeling of reactionary dodging.
: Alternatively- In addition to current functionality, add Apply Revealed on target on hit. This would allow Rangers to effectively counter stealth.

s4- Point Blank Shot: Unblockable/Unreflectable. Makes this skill more of a failsafe, and actually effective against enemies that are looming in upon the ranger that may be reflecting projectiles or have some sort of block. Cooldown could be increased to 15 seconds to counteract a very powerful skill.
:Alternatively- Increase base range to 1200. Makes a little less sense since it’s no longer “point-blank”, but maintains the range as other longbow attacks, making it less clunky to use.

s5- Barrage: Buff into more of a projectile storm than an AoE, ala Ice Bow’s skill 4. This would increase damage and enemies affected, which seems fitting for its long cooldown and rooted channel.
:Alternatively- Allow movement while channeling. Evens out the risk/reward balance for using the skill.
:Alternatively- Immobilizes enemies hit by the first barrage or entering the AoE for 1 second. Makes the skill more useful even if the entire channel isn’t launched.

Associated Risks
The skill additions I’m suggesting are very strong. The Longbow is currently still underestimated, and too much tweaking could easily push it over the edge. Just two or three of these suggested skill additions would improve longbow ranger quality of life greatly.

All of them might be a bit much, but very, very fun.

These would also impact PvP and WvW, especially s3 alternative and my suggestions for s5.

I like this guy. Most of these Rangers posts under the impression that the class is just pure useless when they post in CDI. Been reading your post, good stuff. Though LB 4 CD increased to compensate I dont agree on, this is our only gap increaser in game. If LB auto is changed sure. Was thinking ANet should lower CD from this skill actually. I love point blank, using this after your auto animation is just too good plus the the knock back. I do agree this should be on a 1200 range though. Good stuff

Yes, look at these longbow suggestions Allie, they are good!

Xaylin.1860:

urdriel.8496:

Guest what?? in all other MMOs with a “beastmaster” their pet was able to hit the enemy players, you can "evade2 50% of a pet attack only using WASD while stomping his master……

And that is why the pet has to be improved and not be removed or damage re-distributed to the Ranger 100%. So how is this an argument against the pet mechanic as a whole? People really need to give ANet to chance to adjust the pet. Should it have be done earlier? Yes! Is them not doing it earlier a reason to reject the pet completely? Nope!

They’ve had 8 years. They’ve had 1.5 years with Gw2. If they could they would have already. It’s silly to think otherwise.

And I never said the pet should be removed. I have lobbied time and time again for the option to opt out of the pet for something else. That way people who want the pet can still use it and wait for it to be properly fixed while those of us who are done waiting and want to be effective have something else to use.

addition to post on page 45 near the bottom

Also, i do not see a ‘condition axe’ as totally out of the question. IF all the weapons came with a set of ‘choice skills’ on the #2 and #4 skill. Then yes, by all means, increase the viability of the Axe to be used in multiple builds.

Something like:
overall buff to flat damage on #1 to #4

1. Ricochet: first axe 120% second 100%, third 80%
2. choice for
   2.1 Winters bite: hit foe and chill
   2.2 Beavers bite: knockdown on hit foe and apply cripple
   2.3 Woodpecker: channelled throw 5 axes in rapid succession at target foe.
3. Split blade: throw 5 axes in a cone, each applies one stack of bleed (unchanged)
4. choice for
   4.1 Path of Scars: damage foes on throw, damage + pull foe on return. (unchanged)
   4.2 Limbing strike, Hewing retreat (like runeblade suggested up top page 45 for ‘savage’)
   4.3 Felling Call, shout: give allies swiftness and protection.
5. Whirling defence, added movement, reduced ‘on melee’ damage to facilitate extended buff to damage beyond increased damage on axes in general.

so i realy realy hope and pray to the 5 that Anet will add choice skills on weapons

This is a friendly reminder that no one likes reading walls of text.

I understand that everyone wants to provide feedback as to what they think about the summary list, but a three-section post is excessive, especially when you take into account that this thread is 46 pages long and ANet is trying to read all of our comments.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Instead, apply an aura to the pet that does the same thing spirits currently do. I like this, the less clutter the better.
More than any class in the game, Ranger requires a significant investment in traits before a large number of their utility skills are even work slotting. This would help a lot.
Pets need stat scaling. I agree
Pets should take less damage from AoE and one-shot mechanics. This would help pets in boss fights, and wvw zergs.
When the pet is stowed, the Ranger should gain “aspect of the <pet name>” effect which provides unique buffs based on the pet family and specific pet. I’m glad you mentioned this, though I think that a buff based on the pet family would be enough, no need to over-complicate things. This would greatly help in situations like wall attacking/defense in WvW.
Signets should always affect the Ranger and require a beastmastery trait to also affect the pet. This would be awesome.
New trait: Master: Cleansing Swap: When you swap pets, you lose 2 conditions (ICD of 10 seconds). Sounds nice.
Ranger weapon sets should be redesigned so that weapon selection synergizes with specific playstyles. I agree.
Longbow: Reward max range and synergize with pet. I disagree that synergizing with the pet should be a focus of the longbow. The focus of the longbow should be physical damage and CC. I did like the idea of having max range apply vuln instead of added damage, this is less punishing for not being able to maintain max range. I would also like to add that a knockdown instead of a knockback would be more appealing when partying with a ranger. It is extremely annoying to have a LB ranger knock your target away when you are meleeing them. Also I think some form of poison to help with suppressing your target’s healing would be nice.
Torch: Condition application What main hand would synergize with this offhand? Both Sword and Axe are power weapons, I think modifying one of them to be a condi main hand would be good along with this.
(Traps) simply do not make sense here, because they are largely condition based but skirmishing is the crit line. I agree, move them to the marksmanship line for condi duration.
Rangers should be given some trait options to improve poison in various ways (extended duration, improved healing suppression, higher damage values, bonuses against poisoned foes, etc.). If ranger has to stay without burst, then this is definitely needed.
VII. Spotter – Should be moved to Skirmishing as Grandmaster minor. YES!!!
X. Eagle Eye – Include shortbow. Provides 200 range and +5% damage on longbow and harpoon gun. (no range bonus for shortbow) This is confusing. If this wouldn’t give extra range to Shortbow when traited what would be the point, since +5% dmg wouldn’t mean much since SB was suggested to become a condi weapon. Also why the reduction form 300 to 200. This seems like a nerf not a buff.
(Skirmishing) should focus on weapon swapping, stuns, dazes and mobility in combat. I think that control effects would make more sense being the focus of marksmanship because of the condi duration stat, while this line make more sense for physical damage because of both the crit and crit damage stats which primarily aid physical damage. The focus on mobility would be nice. I’m not sure that I like the current focus on weapon swapping. People trying to do max damage get less out of weapon swap traits because they do not have the needed survivability to weapon swap multiple times throughout a fight.
Cats give condition builds high direct damage burst, while direct damage builds don’t get stronger with different pets. Hopefully stat scaling would solve this, and prevent condi bunker builds from becoming OP with some of the earlier pet changes.

I liked quite a bit of what was being discussed.

Xaylin.1860:

urdriel.8496:

Guest what?? in all other MMOs with a “beastmaster” their pet was able to hit the enemy players, you can "evade2 50% of a pet attack only using WASD while stomping his master……

And that is why the pet has to be improved and not be removed or damage re-distributed to the Ranger 100%. So how is this an argument against the pet mechanic as a whole? People really need to give ANet a chance to adjust the pet. Should it have be done earlier? Yes! Is them not doing it earlier a reason to reject the pet completely? Nope!

they nerfed attack range, nerfed leash range, nerfed Guard, omg, if they want that ranger use the pet stop nerfing it, now you cant send you pet to attack because have less range than your Max range, you cant use pets to attack when you are defending a keep , and when a thief/engi/mesmer use a stealth skill our pet stop attacking…..

I like the idea of having an anti-stealth trait. Either tied to a weapon or beastmastery – your pets can still detect and attack foes under stealth, and if they hit, those foes are unstealthed and revealed for 5 seconds.

Skye Marin.3250:

I like the idea of having an anti-stealth trait. Either tied to a weapon or beastmastery – your pets can still detect and attack foes under stealth, and if they hit, those foes are unstealthed and revealed for 5 seconds.

It makes sense for Rangers to have a “tracking” skill of some sort.

Ltomato.8649:

Flytrap.8075:

I know some people are attached to Longbow, but I personally feel like Longbow and Greatsword are our most awkward, ill-defined weapons.

Haha! Where you you see awkward and ill-defined, I see “versatile” and “fun”! Longbow/Greatsword is my main weapon set that I use for general play. It’s definitely not the best for use in WvW, but I’ve had my share of contributions and epic fights!
The weapons might not have as much of a well defined role, but they have some really cool combinations together.

For greatsword, I’d definitely suggest a damage boost though. I understand that it’s a more defensive sustained damage type of weapon, but as it is, you’re literally better off in a lot of cases picking up a warrior’s banner for team support and more damage (I suggest Discipline, Tactics, or Warbanner for added Fury, Regen, or stability!). There’s a point when sustained damage becomes “damage outhealed by passive healing”, and outside of Maul, greatsword is still mostly under that level.

I like most of your longbow changes. I’d kind of like to see barrage changed to something close to what it was in GW1. Maybe a low cooldown cone AoE would be good.

As for greatsword, I agree that it needs more damage on the auto attack. It’s a defensive weapon for sure, but it’s completely outclassed by other defensive weapons. Our spear and the Guardian’s hammer both have 0.8, .09, and 1.0 for the auto attack coefficients. It won’t break the game if our greatsword has the same.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Hey everyone,

I’ve tried to summarize most of the feedback we’ve been getting. Most of this are the big points that are being made and the high level with a few smaller suggestions and tweaks for inspiration.

If what you wrote in that post make it to a patch, all of it that is, then rangers should be more then viable for all game modes.

Pet HP should still be increased in WvW similar to that of PvE. If you could manage to pull that off before the feature patch, in addition to the F2 fix that i assume will come with the feature patch, then those two things combined should make pets a whole lot more viable even though the traits (which is the second biggest issue with pets) are still being worked on.
This only pertains to WvW though, sPvP, AFAIK, pets are fine, except F2

Prysin.8542:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Hey everyone,

I’ve tried to summarize most of the feedback we’ve been getting. Most of this are the big points that are being made and the high level with a few smaller suggestions and tweaks for inspiration.

If what you wrote in that post make it to a patch, all of it that is, then rangers should be more then viable for all game modes.

Pet HP should still be increased in WvW similar to that of PvE. If you could manage to pull that off before the feature patch, in addition to the F2 fix that i assume will come with the feature patch, then those two things combined should make pets a whole lot more viable even though the traits (which is the second biggest issue with pets) are still being worked on.
This only pertains to WvW though, sPvP, AFAIK, pets are fine, except F2

I wish they could scale pet HP the same way that enemy HP scales in PvE. Then it could survive a zerg without being too tough while roaming.

urdriel.8496:

Xaylin.1860:

thefantasticg.3984:

…

There might be some aspects which have an individual AI (attacks) but I highly doubt that they have a different AI besides that. Look at their pathing. It is the same (e.g. iLeap, Shatters). I’m not talking about the responsiveness when hitting F1-F4. Shatters only reliably hit your target when you are close to it. Some Illusions also suffer from slow projectiles which can be avoided (Staff Clones, iMage) which is exactly the same issue certain Ranger pets have. And let’s not talk about the broken iWarden.

As said, the issues Elementalists have are different than Rangers. It is more related to cooldowns and access to their skills which is limited due their attunement mechanic.

urdriel.8496:

30% of our raw damage is on our pet,and our skills have less damage coef. due to class mechanic, all other classes dont have this problem, you can you choose to use phantasm or not, but you are not penalized with 30% of your raw damage, pet should be a damage buff, not a damage debuff like is now.

Guess what: A pet class is supposed to have a certain amount of damage and utility linked to their pet. That is why they are a pet class. I’ve never seen this being any different in any MMO I played (DAoC, LotRO).

Mesmers are penalized in form of damage because of their class mechanic. You might want to check their baseline damage without Illusions or Shatters. I can not chose to not use it. I have to use it or I will be inefficient. This is quite obvious when looking at both PvP and PvE. In PvE everyone runs Phantasm builds because their damage would be too low otherwise. In s/tPvP most Mesmers run Shatter because their burst would be too low otherwise.

Elementalists are penalized in form of cooldowns and being locked out of skills.
Necromancers are penalized in a lack of damage mitigation outside of DS.

People really need to get rid of this damsel in distress behaviour.

Guest what?? in all other MMOs with a “beastmaster” their pet was able to hit the enemy players, you can "evade2 50% of a pet attack only using WASD while stomping his master……

in all other MMO’s pet was either brokenly OP or a complete failure.
In GW2 we got a pet that works well in 1v1 but is broken as hell in mass encounters (those other MMO’s didn’t fare well in this area either).

Having damage tied up in the pet is NOT the core issue, it is using it. And yes, you can avoid pets by using WASD, but you can also use those same keys to avoid clone attacks, ele staff attacks, guard scepter attacks, warrior LB attacks, engineer grenades, engineer bombs, thief SB or pretty much ANY projectile and or AOE not derived from a rifle/pistol due to overall low projectile speed.

Lobo.1296:

Weapons:
Longbow: I liked many of the ideas on this thread and your summary. I would, however, echo what many have said that these changes don’t address burst abilities. You have an opportunity with KBS or Hunter’s Shot to add a high risk/reward bust ability in either one of those. Don’t blow the chance to add it with the other changes. I love the idea of a long cast time, high burst ability similar to the winter mayhem slingshot ability. Hold it down for increase range and damage, whamo, LB now has some burst to go with the utility.
Shortbow: I like where this is going. I would suggest, like my above LB suggestion says, add some increase damage to 3-5 abilities, right now there isn’t a lot of reason to no auto attack with the SB since the other skills are equal or lesser in damage. Even though it’s a condi weapon, there should still be bigger direct damage outside of AAs.
Sword:
Dodge overrides animation (s1), s2 jumps reversed (first goes in, second goes out), s3 cast time reduced to better time evades Yeah I think we’ve said this enough, I think y’all have said it’s a problem. If this is fixed you’ll hear a lot of happy cheers from us Power Rangers.
The jumps don’t need to be reversed on s2. s2 is fine and I like that it’s a good “Oh crap” button to get out of the way of big hits. I would just increase the damage of Monarch Leap so the sword has some burst better than the AA. Right now there’s no reason to work s2 into combat because you get better damage and utility on your AA.

Warhorn: s4 gives Protection, Regen and Vigor to nearby allies I’d love this, but even just adding a blind to it will make it worthwhile. Also cut the recharge rate by about 2-3 seconds. It’s too long now for just direct damage. If you add the buffs, I’d still reduce the cooldown.
Torch: S4 sets location of target on fire (small aoe), s5 causes burning and blindness Yes, 4 should cause an AoE burst when it hits and cause burning. 5 adding blind, and increase the duration of the fire. It really is way to short lived to be useful, especially when you compare it to other fields. If you add condi removal or regen you would probably turn Torch into something useful.

Skirmishing:
Remove traps from this line. Yes! That would be great.
They simply do not make sense here, because they are largely condition based but skirmishing is the crit line. That, or swap the stats of the skirmishing line altogether. Don’t swap stats, leave skirmishing Precision and Ferocity
Improve traps in terms of utility, damage and group oriented play. Vague. How? There’s been a ton of suggestions. Longer duration on combo fields, condi cleansing in field or buffs when in a field. Curious to see what devs like.

Wilderness:
Wilderness experts should be the masters of poisons. Therefore, Rangers should have the most potent poisons available.
Rangers should be given some trait options to improve poison in various ways (extended duration, improved healing suppression, higher damage values, bonuses against poisoned foes, etc.). Ok…I think one person suggested this. I wouldn’t be against it really but it wouldn’t be high on my list of needed changes. If this is where traps end up, and it becomes the condition trait line, then yeah…sure I guess.

PvE
Beastmastery & Pets:
Pets die easily in dungeons because they can’t dodge telegraphed skills. So give them a dodge.
New Grandmaster minor: Companionship – Pet gains +7% stats bonus from the player. No. Make this standard to the pet. Don’t make us trait to make our pets scale.

Really do not want to lose swiftness on warhorn, its our only main ability that grants it.

Prysin.8542:

in all other MMO’s pet was either brokenly OP or a complete failure.
In GW2 we got a pet that works well in 1v1 but is broken as hell in mass encounters (those other MMO’s didn’t fare well in this area either).

Having damage tied up in the pet is NOT the core issue, it is using it. And yes, you can avoid pets by using WASD, but you can also use those same keys to avoid clone attacks, ele staff attacks, guard scepter attacks, warrior LB attacks, engineer grenades, engineer bombs, thief SB or pretty much ANY projectile and or AOE not derived from a rifle/pistol due to overall low projectile speed.

You cant avoid clones attack only moving the toon, they will follow you.

I can timing MY attacks to land clean hits on my opponents(when they roll,dodge,evade,move,etc), but i cant micromanage each attack of pets, so, when you are fighting you can only count with your raw damage( 70%), because your pet damage is random, and something totally random ,in Spvp/WvW is BAD.

Prysin.8542:

Having damage tied up in the pet is NOT the core issue, it is using it. And yes, you can avoid pets by using WASD, but you can also use those same keys to avoid clone attacks, ele staff attacks, guard scepter attacks, warrior LB attacks, engineer grenades, engineer bombs, thief SB or pretty much ANY projectile and or AOE not derived from a rifle/pistol due to overall low projectile speed.

This is not entirely true, especially thief SB is not true since their attack homes in on the target unless the target uses an evade. When I play my Thief I see my arrows changing course to hit it’s target, plus the arrow bounces off and hits two other targets on top of that which is an overall dps increase compared to our AA attack. I also see very little people able to evade my mesmer’s greatsword throw by just using the WASD keys, on top of which that throw equals the distance of my short bow which seems kind of off if you ask me. The only time my clones miss is when the opponent is running away from the clone right after the clones attack. My clones just stand there staring while the guy runs away. But not all clones do this, depends on the skill used, some clones will give chase. Honestly, rifle, gun, short bow and longbow should have the best range. grenade’s being thrown the same distance and swords being thrown the same distance is just wrong.

Another problem I see with Ranger bow that I do not see as much on my thief is the obstruction message when my opponent is standing on a pebble.

Absorbing your Spirits to gain Spirit Weapons(Like Summoned Ele Weapons)

I wanted to further elaborate on my Absorbing Spirits Idea:

• Storm Spirit (Skill focus would be swiftness, stuns, and teleports)
  • When absorbed you are granted a new weapon(Lightning Longbow).
    • s1 could be lightning arrows.
    • s2 could be a ground targeting lightning strike, granting swiftness to the caster and dazing the enemy.
    • s3 could be a teleport of some sort Ride the lightning
    • s4 could be an Odin Strike – Pull up to 5 enemies towards the caster and explode the weapon for lots of damage.
    • s5 destroy the bow blinding everyone in a XXX radius.

• Stone Spirit (Skill focus would be Protection, cripples, blocks and reflects)
  • When absorbed you are granted a new weapon(Stone Greatsword)
    • s1 swinging launches pieces of your greatsword at an enemy
    • s2 summon up a boulder to block enemy projectiles
    • s3 stir up the ground around you into a quicksand pit causing cripple to enemies and protection to allies inside the radius
    • s4 strike your sword into the ground causing rocks to cover your body protecting you and granting Aegis.
    • s5 destroy your greatsword into tiny shards causing bleeding in an XXX radius

• Sun Spirit (Skill focus would be burning damage and blindness)
  • When absorbed you are granted a new weapon(Flame Sword?)
    • Still working on ideas for skills

• Frost Spirit (Skill focus would be chill and reflects)
  • When absorbed you are granted a new weapon(Dual Ice Daggers)
    • Still working on ideas for skills

I really hope your team considers merging the pet specific trainings into the grand master minor rune of the bm line to allow pure beast masters to be actual beast masters capable of bringing out the best of any pet.

Requiring a major rune slot for the meager benefits is just plain silly and they are hogging up multiple rune slots that could be used for other more useful options.

Akisame.9508:

Thank you for the summary post, however, I did not see anything in there pertaining to WvWvW. We still have the problem of them dieing way to fast in zerg vs zerg. And we also have the large issue of us loosing 30% of our damage when defending or taking a keep/fort because pet’s will not scale up or down the walls. This includes the birds which will not fly up or down the wall to attack the targets. The only way I can see to combat this would be to have pets like all over class mechanics, an addition to our damage, not taking away from our damage. For instance, warriors get to do 100% of their damage and if they have full adrenaline they do an extra 15% damage. Ranger should be set up the same way with pets. Ranger’s should have 100% control of their damage and the pet, while alive, should be able to deal an extra 15% damage. If the pet is dead then it deals no extra damage like warriors with no adrenaline will deal no extra damage. We will still have the problem of the pets not being able to hit a moving target but at least the ranger will no longer have this handicap on them.

Thing is, warriors have to build adrenaline to have that bonus damage, and they have plenty of incentive to spend it. In many scenarios ranger pet DPS is always up, so ranger base DPS has to be lower or they’d outshine other classes.

That said, pet DPS is much more often down than intended (dead, inactive to prevent dying, can’t hit spit with default creature AI, etc.), so I wouldn’t mind a band-aid to either boost pet or ranger base damages across the board to account for this. At least until pets are closer to 100% uptime.

Specific Game Mode
PvX

Proposal Overview
Pets family have better placement on the pet list, by changing their position on it.

Goal of Proposal
It would make changing pets faster and more logical

Proposal Functionality
All that need to be done is change position of pets portrait. Right now, they seem to be put randomly there, not in any order. In the first line we have cat, boar, another cat, dog, bear and a devourer at the end for some reason. It doesn’t really make a sense, they don’t seem to be similiar in any way ( like dmg dealing or tankiness) but they are just like that from the release. What I am proposing is changing their position by order of their pet family. This would help those who are looking for pet that has same skills but different F2 ability. Take a look at picture that i posted.

Associated Risks
People are used to current list, so they may not like the change – but look at facebook or youtube – they’re changing all the time, making society rage about it. After some time it will cool off, and rangers will love this new pet list.

Pet’s list that i suggest: 1st is terrain and 2nd is underwater

Heeeyyyyy there…
Game Mode: PvE

Goal: These changes is to fit ANet’s vision of a Ranger in game and it’s Pets and to provide a clear understanding of the term Resilient fighter through its traits lines. Some of these traits are inspired from Warriors, Engi, and Guardians.

Overview: Trait line overall rework, provided that Wilderness Survival is still: Toughness and Condition Damage.

Risks: Empathic Bond players might rage quit because they can’t grasp the concept of the new Ranger. Mind you, I look over and over again and thought hard about these changes.

Traits Rework

Wilderness Survival

Adept: Natural Vigor – Increases endurance regeneration. (same)
Master: Companion’s Defense – You and your pet gain protection when you dodge roll. (same)
Revised Grandmaster: Resilient Strength – Deal 5% damage. 1% extra damage for each condition on you.

Adept: I. Soften the Fall – Creates Muddy Terrain when you take falling damage. Take less from falling damage.

Revised Adept: II. Healer’s Celerity – You and your ally gain swiftness and vigor when you revive them. Revive speed is increased. (Guardian like)

New Adept: III. Wilderness Expert – Incoming conditions applied to you and your pet expired 20% faster. (Warrior like)

Adept: IV. Vigorous Renewal – Grants vigor when using a healing skill.

Adept: V. Trapper’s Expertise – Your traps use ground targeting and recharge faster.

Revised Adept: VI. Wilderness Knowledge – Reduces recharge on Survival skills. Heals you and your pet for # whenever you use a Survival skill. (Guardian like)

New Master: VII. Off-hand Cleansing – Reduces recharge on off-hand weapons. Warhorn and Torch skills cures a condition. (CD: 20s) (Warrior like)

Revised Master: VIII. Oak Heart Salve – Gain regeneration when you suffer from Bleeding, poison, burning, or torment. (CD: 12 secs)

Revised Master: IX. Hide in Plain Sight – Applies camouflage when you are dazed, stun, knockdown, launched or pushed back. Grants protection (2s) after. (CD: 18 secs)

Master: X. Martial Mastery – Reduce recharge on sword, Greatsword, and Spear skills.

Grandmaster: XI. Trap Potency – Conditions applied by your traps last longer. Traps are much bigger.

Revised Grandmaster: XII. Bark Skin – You and your pet takes # % less damage when your health is below # %. Conditions applied to has # % chance to convert into Boons. (Engineer like)

Note: Again Im trying to make fair changes here in all game modes because I do play them all with my Ranger just to give the Devs a productive read and show that im not biased, before you comment about these wild changes look at my posts history first on why these changes.

Warden.8927:

Really do not want to lose swiftness on warhorn, its our only main ability that grants it.

Me either! I’m not suggesting it. Warhorn 5 is good as is. I would maybe give it 3 stacks of might instead of one, but otherwise I think it’s great.

Warhorn 4 is where I would add a blind to the direct damage. Or the buffs Allie listed (but I would still keep the hawks and damage).

I just wanted to highlight what Shiren was saying and throw my support behind the observation.

Activating things ‘on swap’;

• Doesn’t make me want to actively use my pet, it just makes me want to keep it from dying. I feel more encouraged to Return a pet to avoid a cooldown penalty than use it to engage the playing field.

• A swapped pet being the point of origin may as well be originating from me for all the difference that makes spatially. Effects activating from the pet but only when it’s right beside me is a real lost opportunity to use a class mechanic that revolves around having another body on the field.

• Swapping is no real indicator of skillful play, and shouldn’t be rewarded for it’s own sake. You swap for two reasons; Pet Health and Switching Gears
  • Swapping for Health-reasons is about responding to external forces acting on you. It’s a bad determinator of ‘good’ or ‘bad’ play, because it’s more a reflection of how dangerous the environment is than how I’m using the pet to accomplish my gameplay goals.
  • Swapping to switch gears for tactical reasons should absolutely be rewarded, if that’s meant to be a central theme to the class. Elementalist? Absolutely! The pet class? …Why? It’s not even clear why swapping is a part of the gameplay at all, much less a part that’s being held up as a paragon of skillful execution of the class mechanic.

Suggestion

There should be some clear definition of what constitutes ‘good play’ or ‘bad play’ with a pet, and ‘good play’ should be rewarded by activating effects like these. This should involve using the pet on the playing field.

I think this ultimately loops back around to the Pet lacking a real purpose in both the Master’s overarching gameplay goals, and Group content at large. If you knew what it was there for, it would be much easier to know how to reward using it well.

Angela Ranna.5638:

Thing is, warriors have to build adrenaline to have that bonus damage, and they have plenty of incentive to spend it. In many scenarios ranger pet DPS is always up, so ranger base DPS has to be lower or they’d outshine other classes.

That said, pet DPS is much more often down than intended (dead, inactive to prevent dying, can’t hit spit with default creature AI, etc.), so I wouldn’t mind a band-aid to either boost pet or ranger base damages across the board to account for this. At least until pets are closer to 100% uptime.

I get what your saying Angela, however, when I’m on my warrior I can build up my adrenaline very fast. It’s very easy to build it up especially in a zerg. The time it takes me to build it up is about the time it takes my ranger pet to run up to the target, charge up his attack skill and attack. If the warrior doesn’t use his adrenaline then he’s getting a constant 15% damage bonus. That’s all I’m asking for. Him using his adrenaline is no different then me using my f2 function which stops attack’s, charges a skill, performs the skill, then resumes the attack. In the time period, the warrior uses his adrenaline and recharges it with the next couple of hits, especially if he’s traited for it. Time investment for the adrenaline charge would be the same as the time investment of the f2 ability, give OR take a second or two. Comparing these two scenarios I see no reason why ranger-to-pet damage cannot be the same as warrior-to-adrenaline damage.

Angela Ranna.5638:

Akisame.9508:

Thank you for the summary post, however, I did not see anything in there pertaining to WvWvW. We still have the problem of them dieing way to fast in zerg vs zerg. And we also have the large issue of us loosing 30% of our damage when defending or taking a keep/fort because pet’s will not scale up or down the walls. This includes the birds which will not fly up or down the wall to attack the targets. The only way I can see to combat this would be to have pets like all over class mechanics, an addition to our damage, not taking away from our damage. For instance, warriors get to do 100% of their damage and if they have full adrenaline they do an extra 15% damage. Ranger should be set up the same way with pets. Ranger’s should have 100% control of their damage and the pet, while alive, should be able to deal an extra 15% damage. If the pet is dead then it deals no extra damage like warriors with no adrenaline will deal no extra damage. We will still have the problem of the pets not being able to hit a moving target but at least the ranger will no longer have this handicap on them.

Thing is, warriors have to build adrenaline to have that bonus damage, and they have plenty of incentive to spend it. In many scenarios ranger pet DPS is always up, so ranger base DPS has to be lower or they’d outshine other classes.

That said, pet DPS is much more often down than intended (dead, inactive to prevent dying, can’t hit spit with default creature AI, etc.), so I wouldn’t mind a band-aid to either boost pet or ranger base damages across the board to account for this. At least until pets are closer to 100% uptime.

i will change pets for a “adrenaline” bar like warrior.

urdriel.8496:

Angela Ranna.5638:

Akisame.9508:

Thank you for the summary post, however, I did not see anything in there pertaining to WvWvW. We still have the problem of them dieing way to fast in zerg vs zerg. And we also have the large issue of us loosing 30% of our damage when defending or taking a keep/fort because pet’s will not scale up or down the walls. This includes the birds which will not fly up or down the wall to attack the targets. The only way I can see to combat this would be to have pets like all over class mechanics, an addition to our damage, not taking away from our damage. For instance, warriors get to do 100% of their damage and if they have full adrenaline they do an extra 15% damage. Ranger should be set up the same way with pets. Ranger’s should have 100% control of their damage and the pet, while alive, should be able to deal an extra 15% damage. If the pet is dead then it deals no extra damage like warriors with no adrenaline will deal no extra damage. We will still have the problem of the pets not being able to hit a moving target but at least the ranger will no longer have this handicap on them.

Thing is, warriors have to build adrenaline to have that bonus damage, and they have plenty of incentive to spend it. In many scenarios ranger pet DPS is always up, so ranger base DPS has to be lower or they’d outshine other classes.

That said, pet DPS is much more often down than intended (dead, inactive to prevent dying, can’t hit spit with default creature AI, etc.), so I wouldn’t mind a band-aid to either boost pet or ranger base damages across the board to account for this. At least until pets are closer to 100% uptime.

i will change pets for a “adrenaline” bar like warrior.

I think we all would LOL

An adrenaline bar filled by strikes, with an f1 to summon Pet A, f2 to summon Pet B and the duration of the summon and the stats of the pet increase as the number of adrenaline bars increase before cashing out to summon?

Sign me up.

Criminal.5627:

I hope a better pet UI makes it into the game, it is already a pain when we cant see pet boons and conditions they currently have. not to mention to see if shouts are still affecting them.

This is something that should come in the next skill balance just as a QoL improvement. It shouldn’t have to wait for the “Ranger fix”. If our pets are intrinsically tied to our profession as something we have to have, then we should have that info at the ready post haste.

I also think we should be able to have two of the same pet. If my Ranger who is “one with nature” wants to have two pink Moas, she should have it.

Suggestion: Give Rangers a trait to reduce cooldown on weapon swap.

Overview: I propose giving the Ranger a trait to allow them to swap weapons more often much like the Warrior’s Fast Hands trait. This is predominately a PvP or WvW solution as I’m not sure any PvE scenario would have a net DPS increase by rotating weapons 50% faster.

Goal: The class needs burst. Allowing them to swap to weapons that provide burst without being stuck in those weapons for 10 seconds if the burst fail and will give the player more control of their damage. It also makes the class more mobile and opens up weapon combos that previously wouldn’t have existed.

Functionality: Make the quick draw trait also make weapon swapping recharge faster. If it’s too powerful, you could limit it to only work if you have a bow in one of your hands.

Risks: The risks is certain sigil combinations could become a problem, but considering the class isn’t that strong to begin with, I’m not sure it will be as easily exploited as it is on the Warrior class.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Also, you guys can’t see this due to the limitations of formatting on our forums, but a lot of these points were made by many of you guys. As such, they are much more emphasized in the email threads and discussions we have internally.

First, thank you for your summary. What I think got missed in the pile was the idea that pet damage should be rebalanced so that they no longer draw 30% of our damage from us in the first place. All other classes core mechanics add to base damage where as rangers loose almost a third of our player damage in order to have an AI run around with us. If our pets hit every time and are never dead, we just get to 100% base damage of every other class capping us at 100% a warrior hits 115% with his/her core mechanic.

This does not take into account the loss of gear stats on the pet which is significant.

I’m not saying this isn’t possible, but I want you to understand exactly what that suggestion means. It would mean completely rebalancing the Ranger.

The Ranger is designed to have a pet. If the pet was taken away or didn’t do damage, then it wouldn’t be a Ranger anymore. Does that make sense?

The only reason Rangers lose damage is because the AI is not currently what it ought to be. That doesn’t necessarily mean that we should completely redesign the Ranger and get rid of the pet.

Think of it this way: You’re building a house and a 2×4 breaks while you’re trying to screw it in to something. Do you scrap the house and completely rebuild it because that one piece broke, or do you grab a new 2×4 and use that instead? Which do you think would be more efficient?

What I’ve been seeing a lot of is that you guys don’t necessarily dislike pets. What you dislike is how they act and how they are controlled. It seems to me that these are feelings that have been built up over time, and have culminated into “pets have to go” because you guys haven’t seen the improvements that should be made to pets to make them desirable. I certainly don’t blame you for getting to this point, but I do want to know the core of the problem before we start talking about rebalancing an entire class.

I love this Dev. Well explained.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Also, you guys can’t see this due to the limitations of formatting on our forums, but a lot of these points were made by many of you guys. As such, they are much more emphasized in the email threads and discussions we have internally.

First, thank you for your summary. What I think got missed in the pile was the idea that pet damage should be rebalanced so that they no longer draw 30% of our damage from us in the first place. All other classes core mechanics add to base damage where as rangers loose almost a third of our player damage in order to have an AI run around with us. If our pets hit every time and are never dead, we just get to 100% base damage of every other class capping us at 100% a warrior hits 115% with his/her core mechanic.

This does not take into account the loss of gear stats on the pet which is significant.

I’m not saying this isn’t possible, but I want you to understand exactly what that suggestion means. It would mean completely rebalancing the Ranger.

The Ranger is designed to have a pet. If the pet was taken away or didn’t do damage, then it wouldn’t be a Ranger anymore. Does that make sense?

The only reason Rangers lose damage is because the AI is not currently what it ought to be. That doesn’t necessarily mean that we should completely redesign the Ranger and get rid of the pet.

Think of it this way: You’re building a house and a 2×4 breaks while you’re trying to screw it in to something. Do you scrap the house and completely rebuild it because that one piece broke, or do you grab a new 2×4 and use that instead? Which do you think would be more efficient?

What I’ve been seeing a lot of is that you guys don’t necessarily dislike pets. What you dislike is how they act and how they are controlled. It seems to me that these are feelings that have been built up over time, and have culminated into “pets have to go” because you guys haven’t seen the improvements that should be made to pets to make them desirable. I certainly don’t blame you for getting to this point, but I do want to know the core of the problem before we start talking about rebalancing an entire class.

One major concern I have is how pets currently work in WvW. Even if you buff up their numbers and improve the AI, I still feel like pets will be a complete burden.

I’d also like to know if there are any ideas to flesh out Ranger’s role in large-scale WvW, seeing as they currently do not have one.

urdriel.8496:

but i cant micromanage each attack of pets

then you have a problem on your end and you must look for ways to force the pet to hit more.

You can do this in several ways;
1 – use a ranged pet
2 – use soft/hard CC
3 – use melee pets when you go melee.

It is cumbersome and not very “player friendly” but the mechanics does work, if you’re willing to work with it (a lot)

I think the list is rather short-sighted. Instead of fixing how the game works, most suggestions are “work-arounds”.

A good example of a work-around is the pet attack range buff to stop the “stop-and-go” combat. Ranger pets are so messed up because they act as NPCs, not players. It would require much more work than tweaking numbers, but what I would really like to see is pets behaving (mechanically, not AI) like players. Pets should be able to attack while moving. I know animations would have to be made for all the pets, but that’s just what needs to be done in my mind.

Pets need an option for “dodge when I dodge”, which would require additional animation work too.

Along with those two things, I really like the player ideas that pets should share consumables and share boons ( even if sharing boons is a beast mastery trait). Imagine a trait that’s something like “Every 5-10 seconds, one of your boons is copied to your pet”.

I just don’t think pets will ever be where I want them to be unless the changes made to them change their mechanics, and not just number changes.

Allie Murdock.8152:

I’m not saying this isn’t possible, but I want you to understand exactly what that suggestion means. It would mean completely rebalancing the Ranger.

The Ranger is designed to have a pet. If the pet was taken away or didn’t do damage, then it wouldn’t be a Ranger anymore. Does that make sense?

The only reason Rangers lose damage is because the AI is not currently what it ought to be. That doesn’t necessarily mean that we should completely redesign the Ranger and get rid of the pet.

The main complain IMO is that a 1/3 of our DPS is almost independent from us. We can’t fuel pet with condition damage like necro or mesmer, we can’t trait it effectively (like mesmer can have +fury, +health, +damage, damage on death, conditions on death, heal on death etc for his illusions). So, I’d like to get other pet issues fixed first and tune damage afterwards. E.g. if you reduce AoE damage pets take and add dependency from ranger’s stats – that already might fix a lot.

Allie Murdock.8152:

phys.7689:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Also, you guys can’t see this due to the limitations of formatting on our forums, but a lot of these points were made by many of you guys. As such, they are much more emphasized in the email threads and discussions we have internally.

First, thank you for your summary. What I think got missed in the pile was the idea that pet damage should be rebalanced so that they no longer draw 30% of our damage from us in the first place. All other classes core mechanics add to base damage where as rangers loose almost a third of our player damage in order to have an AI run around with us. If our pets hit every time and are never dead, we just get to 100% base damage of every other class capping us at 100% a warrior hits 115% with his/her core mechanic.

This does not take into account the loss of gear stats on the pet which is significant.

this is completely false, all classes are balanced with their class mechanics in mind.
A mesmer isnt doing high level dmg competitive with other dps classes without phantasms or conditions without its clones. Necro base power on skills is lower even on its dps skills because they consider condition/minions in their max dps. Elementalists skills are tied to swapping elements, and they specifically place finishers and AOE in different places to promote swapping. Theif inititative totally changes how and what skills get dmg, and its generally balanced around initiative costs. Every classes mechanic is figured into their DPS.

Also, what this guy said ^

All other classes can choose, a mesmer can choose a phantasm build or not, a Necro can choose a minion build or not, we cant choose, we have an AI controlled pet that is a dps lost and we must bear with it each second we play GW2.

Ofc, we are frustrated, more than 1 year with a pet that is a debuff instead of a buff, the best fix that ranger class could have would be a “good pet” , but instead of that, Anet nerfed pet leash range,pet attack range and we have a severe damage handicap when we attack or defend a keep.

BeardRex.6739:

Pets need an option for “dodge when I dodge”, which would require additional animation work too.

Along with those two things, I really like the player ideas that pets should share consumables and share boons ( even if sharing boons is a beast mastery trait). Imagine a trait that’s something like “Every 5-10 seconds, one of your boons is copied to your pet”.

I just don’t think pets will ever be where I want them to be unless the changes made to them change their mechanics, and not just number changes.

How can we take your suggestion seriously if you don’t know the current Ranger mechanics. Look up Fortifying Bond.

urdriel.8496:

Allie Murdock.8152:

phys.7689:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Also, you guys can’t see this due to the limitations of formatting on our forums, but a lot of these points were made by many of you guys. As such, they are much more emphasized in the email threads and discussions we have internally.

First, thank you for your summary. What I think got missed in the pile was the idea that pet damage should be rebalanced so that they no longer draw 30% of our damage from us in the first place. All other classes core mechanics add to base damage where as rangers loose almost a third of our player damage in order to have an AI run around with us. If our pets hit every time and are never dead, we just get to 100% base damage of every other class capping us at 100% a warrior hits 115% with his/her core mechanic.

This does not take into account the loss of gear stats on the pet which is significant.

this is completely false, all classes are balanced with their class mechanics in mind.
A mesmer isnt doing high level dmg competitive with other dps classes without phantasms or conditions without its clones. Necro base power on skills is lower even on its dps skills because they consider condition/minions in their max dps. Elementalists skills are tied to swapping elements, and they specifically place finishers and AOE in different places to promote swapping. Theif inititative totally changes how and what skills get dmg, and its generally balanced around initiative costs. Every classes mechanic is figured into their DPS.

Also, what this guy said ^

All other classes can choose, a mesmer can choose a phantasm build or not, a Necro can choose a minion build or not, we cant choose, we have an AI controlled pet that is a dps lost and we must bear with it each second we play GW2.

Ofc, we are frustrated, more than 1 year with a pet that is a debuff instead of a buff, the best fix that ranger class could have would be a “good pet” , but instead of that, Anet nerfed pet leash range,pet attack range and we have a severe damage handicap when we attack or defend a keep.

I agree.

No other class has to work around their class mechanic; it is always beneficial. Our pet is just a drawback and a huge drain on traits that could be utilized elsewhere.

BeardRex.6739:

Ranger pets are so messed up because they act as NPCs, not players. It would require much more work than tweaking numbers, but what I would really like to see is pets behaving (mechanically, not AI) like players.

That has the serious effect of “If pet has same base combat movement and the intelligence of a player” will that then become “two players in one”?
The more advanced the AI, the harder it is to ever reach a state of balance, and this is especially true unless they want to create different pets for different modes. If they run the same pet AI in all modes, with human-like behavior, then we would be great in PvE, good in WvW and completely off the charts OP in sPvP. Because having a small missile of a pet hitting hard each time without a fault and not dieing (pets can already be very tanky in sPvP since damage is lower, but pets remain the same across modes).
This means that any buff to any function that may or may not benefit the pet, but is hugely important for player performance would be very hard to achieve, as that buff may or may not tip the pet over the edge and make it super OP.

BeardRex.6739:

Pets need an option for “dodge when I dodge”, which would require additional animation work too.

Along with those two things, I really like the player ideas that pets should share consumables and share boons ( even if sharing boons is a beast mastery trait). Imagine a trait that’s something like “Every 5-10 seconds, one of your boons is copied to your pet”.

Agreed, and regarding boon-share it should go both ways, not just from ranger to pet, as it is today.

BeardRex.6739:

I just don’t think pets will ever be where I want them to be unless the changes made to them change their mechanics, and not just number changes.

You do know that every piece of “mechanics” is just numbers in a coded program? A new mechanic just means you need to change a whole lot more numbers then if you redo the other functions.

Questions:

1. If a 5-target AoE hits a bear instead of an elementalist… is that considered support?
2. If you stand behind a devourer and it blocks projectiles aimed at you… is that considered survivability?
3. If you swap between moas and they provide 8k aoe healing (1340×3pulsesx2moas) on a 40s cooldown, isn’t that equivalent to a second healing skill?
4. If a malicious spider hits with a web and a paralyzing venom followed by a pet swap and another web and the target is immobilized for a full 13.5 seconds… is that any good?
5. If you know the tricks that let you use your pet on demand to knockdown (dogs), blast (drakes), swiftness (birds), fear (shark), or heal (moas)… isn’t that useful?

Answers:

1. Doesn’t involve doing damage, doesn’t matter.
2. Doesn’t involve doing damage, doesn’t matter.
3. Doesn’t involve doing damage, doesn’t matter.
4. Doesn’t involve doing damage, doesn’t matter.
5. Doesn’t involve doing damage, doesn’t matter.

I like having an interesting toolbox and finding ways to work with it. Other people just seem to want numbers they can see.

Allie Murdock.8152:

1. X. Eagle Eye – Include shortbow. Provides 200 range and +5% damage on longbow and harpoon gun. (no range bonus for shortbow)

200? I sincerely hope that this is a typo and you meant 300. Otherwise you are suggesting a nerf to longbow range and I think we’ve been nerfed quite enough already in my opinion.

Here’s my suggestion instead:

Eagle Eye – Include shortbow. Provides +300 range and +5% damage on longbow, shortbow and harpoon gun.

There, now it’s good. Give us back the ‘unparalleled archer’ please!

Allie Murdock.8152:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Also, you guys can’t see this due to the limitations of formatting on our forums, but a lot of these points were made by many of you guys. As such, they are much more emphasized in the email threads and discussions we have internally.

First, thank you for your summary. What I think got missed in the pile was the idea that pet damage should be rebalanced so that they no longer draw 30% of our damage from us in the first place. All other classes core mechanics add to base damage where as rangers loose almost a third of our player damage in order to have an AI run around with us. If our pets hit every time and are never dead, we just get to 100% base damage of every other class capping us at 100% a warrior hits 115% with his/her core mechanic.

This does not take into account the loss of gear stats on the pet which is significant.

I’m not saying this isn’t possible, but I want you to understand exactly what that suggestion means. It would mean completely rebalancing the Ranger.

The Ranger is designed to have a pet. If the pet was taken away or didn’t do damage, then it wouldn’t be a Ranger anymore. Does that make sense?

The only reason Rangers lose damage is because the AI is not currently what it ought to be. That doesn’t necessarily mean that we should completely redesign the Ranger and get rid of the pet.

Think of it this way: You’re building a house and a 2×4 breaks while you’re trying to screw it in to something. Do you scrap the house and completely rebuild it because that one piece broke, or do you grab a new 2×4 and use that instead? Which do you think would be more efficient?

What I’ve been seeing a lot of is that you guys don’t necessarily dislike pets. What you dislike is how they act and how they are controlled. It seems to me that these are feelings that have been built up over time, and have culminated into “pets have to go” because you guys haven’t seen the improvements that should be made to pets to make them desirable. I certainly don’t blame you for getting to this point, but I do want to know the core of the problem before we start talking about rebalancing an entire class.

You’re right… 1.5 years of no progress has caused the playerbase to wave the white flag of defeat and wants the pets removed.

They can’t hit moving targets.
The F2 skills aren’t responsive.
The F2 skills aren’t good.
The F2 skills have too long of a cast time and the pet can’t move while using them.
Pets don’t scale with gear so we’ve seen no increase with ascended stats.
Pets simply don’t work AT ALL in WvW.
Players can’t control the secondary attacks.

That’s a lot to be fixed considering nothing has been fixed in 1.5 years despite complaining about them nonstop since beta. This is the reason half this thread is filled with suggestions to either remove the pet outright or make it such a nonfactor we don’t care what happens to it. Can you assure us any of this will be resolved within a reasonable time frame? Because if not… 1.5 years is long enough for even ANet to wave the white flag I think…

And this is just the pets… we haven’t even gotten to the problems related to why NO ONE wants anything to do with the class in WvW, how boring the class is to play, or how ineffective it is at nearly everything it does.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Also, you guys can’t see this due to the limitations of formatting on our forums, but a lot of these points were made by many of you guys. As such, they are much more emphasized in the email threads and discussions we have internally.

First, thank you for your summary. What I think got missed in the pile was the idea that pet damage should be rebalanced so that they no longer draw 30% of our damage from us in the first place. All other classes core mechanics add to base damage where as rangers loose almost a third of our player damage in order to have an AI run around with us. If our pets hit every time and are never dead, we just get to 100% base damage of every other class capping us at 100% a warrior hits 115% with his/her core mechanic.

This does not take into account the loss of gear stats on the pet which is significant.

I’m not saying this isn’t possible, but I want you to understand exactly what that suggestion means. It would mean completely rebalancing the Ranger.

The Ranger is designed to have a pet. If the pet was taken away or didn’t do damage, then it wouldn’t be a Ranger anymore. Does that make sense?

The only reason Rangers lose damage is because the AI is not currently what it ought to be. That doesn’t necessarily mean that we should completely redesign the Ranger and get rid of the pet.

Think of it this way: You’re building a house and a 2×4 breaks while you’re trying to screw it in to something. Do you scrap the house and completely rebuild it because that one piece broke, or do you grab a new 2×4 and use that instead? Which do you think would be more efficient?

What I’ve been seeing a lot of is that you guys don’t necessarily dislike pets. What you dislike is how they act and how they are controlled. It seems to me that these are feelings that have been built up over time, and have culminated into “pets have to go” because you guys haven’t seen the improvements that should be made to pets to make them desirable. I certainly don’t blame you for getting to this point, but I do want to know the core of the problem before we start talking about rebalancing an entire class.

To answer the bold part, I’m sorry but you do realize it doesn’t take 1.5 years to go get a new 2×4 right? (not trying to sound rude or disrespectful, but criticism is warranted here)
This analogy isn’t comparable to our problem with pets taking away my characters damage. You mention the term effcient… no offense but the devs haven’t done anything in terms of efficiently helping the ranger..

Where exactly do you see pets helping me do damage in WvW? They are dead weight in WvW and its one of the reasons rangers have absolutely no business in WvW. Our DPS drop is glaringly visibile here.

The only situation where 70:30 DPS split makes sense and is balanced for is in a 1v1 fight or very small skirmishes.

Pets are for the most part only doing damage to a singular target.
They don’t cleave or AOE

There is absolutely no reason as to why the split shouldn’t be brought up in the discussion for changes (even a buff to 80:20 would be immensely better)

Right now, the 70:30 split is a huge crutch, I don’t care what kind of changes are made to pets, it’s not going to change the fact rangers are at the very bottom when it comes to DPS.

Allie Murdock.8152:

The Ranger is designed to have a pet. If the pet was taken away or didn’t do damage, then it wouldn’t be a Ranger anymore.

Maybe that’s the point.

Suggestion: Signet overhaul and Signet of the Beastmaster

Overview: Signet of the Beastmaster shouldn’t be a requirement to make signets affect the Ranger. Anet has responded to this indicating they’re open to the idea, but they feel some signets are overpowered. I want to reduce the power of some of the signets very slightly and expand their use using Chrispy’s idea earlier in this thread to make Signet of the Beastmaster a trait to improve group utility.

Goal: I want to reduce the power on some of the stronger signets slightly while maintaining their original identity. I will also change signet of the hunt’s functionality greatly because 2 stacking damage multipliers is too much. I will also change the Signet of the Beastmaster trait so each signet has a group function.

Functionality:

Signet of the Beastmaster: Any time the Ranger activates one of their Signets, the Ranger, his pet, and 5 allies will gain a unique buff.

Signet of Stone: 60 second cooldown.
Passive: Improves toughness for you and your pet by 150.
Active: You and your pet take no damage from incoming attacks for 4 seconds.
Beastmaster: Break stun.
Summary: Cooldown reduced, passive reduced slightly, active changed to be like Endure Pain with a shorter duration. Trait will now make the active identical to Endure Pain for Warrior.

Signet of Renewel: 60 second cooldown.
Passive: Cure a condition every 10 seconds.
Active: Cure all conditions and breaks stun.
Beastmaster: Pulls all conditions from 5 nearby allies to your pet.
Summary: Overall a buff all around. The class is weak against conditions and transferring them to your pet is counter productive. The 30pt trait will now transfer them to the pet so the pet can purge them all. Effectively a group condi clear.

Signet of the Wild: 60 second cooldown.
Passive: Reduce the duration of cripple, chill, and immobilize by 33%.
Active: Gain stability for 8 seconds and increase you and your pets damage by 15% for 8 seconds.
Beastmaster: You, your pet, and 5 allies gain 5 might.
Summary: You would expect the Ranger to not be snared in combat easily after spending all their time running through the wilds. Damage increase reduced, but is offset by might gain if you have trait.

Signet of the Hunt: 30 second cooldown.
Passive: You and your pet move 25% faster.
Active: A unique skill based off the main hand weapon you have equipped.
Shortbow: Your next 5 shots also apply torment.
Longbow: Take aim at your target for 1 second before releasing an arrow for high damage.
Greatsword: Reset the cooldown on all greatsword skills.
Sword: Strike your foe with a flurry of strikes while evading all incoming attacks.
Axe: Your next 5 attacks will also cast Ricochet.
Beastmaster: You, your pet, and 5 allies will apply 5 stacks of vulnerability on their next attack.
Summary: +150% damage in addition to Wild (with or without my suggestion) can be a bit excessive at times. This replaces the active to make each individual weapon more engaging and tries to fill some holes I feel each weapon has.

I’m worried I made the Beastmastery stuff too weak considering it’s a 30pt trait and the group buffs are too situational so maybe some suggestions on better alternatives.