Guild Wars 2

Arghore.8340:

@Tobias,
I am actually getting more enthusiastic by my suggestion further above, and I think in some form it has been suggested earlier.

The idea of summoning pets instead of ‘having one always active’, is actually more beast master like then having an active pet around all the time. It also has a perma-stow option build in, while still keeping the pet as a very defining Ranger Mechanic. It offers the ranger a selection of 4 pets, making the mechanic a lot more varied as you can slot pets for different situations. And by making the pets more of a situational AI aid, it will need a lot less micromanagement. Possibly only an ‘Aggressive, follow my lead’/‘Heel, passive (do not ever attack or do anything for the duration of your uptime)’ switch could be enough. And these ‘pets’ could still be assigned tasks through shouts (I already made a few in a full utility remake I am almost finished with). These shouts have a certain ‘power value’ to them (based upon balance) and thus you could assign an added uptime to the summoned pet (or rather a ‘stop the clock’) while it does a certain specific task that is related to the shout. Hopefully i’ll be done with writing it all out soon so I can link the suggestion. This all from the players’ side.

The other thing is, as pets become these F1-4 summons that help you out during a specific timeframe, ArenaNet can buff up their reliability considerably. As they do not have to take into account that the ‘profession mechanic’ needs downtime, as they can put that part into a recharge mechanic. They can also scale the pet attacks and recharges to the ‘profession mechanic’ instead of the ranger strength, and view that entirely separate from their ‘survival reliability’. Mainly, the pet needs to roughly be strong enough to apply the power/utility that is to be expected from the ‘profession mechanic’ during the timeframe the pet is around. Which makes the whole thing a lot easier to manage and monitor. This in turn would likely make the pets a lot more reliable, which in turn might warrant making the pets take a couple of % (like 5% or so) of the ranger strength on their ‘attack side’. As long as the recharge isn’t to ridiculous and the survivability increased by a lot. It is going to despawn anyways, so their left over HP do not cause extra uptime of the pet and thus do not unbalance the profession mechanic!

I personally think doing it this way makes everybody happy in the end. There is a perma stow (just not use the mechanic – which I doubt many would do with this kind of functionality), people get access to more combat pets (be it by giving up a permanent companion, which might sadden some, but that is largely during ‘non combat’ phazes, grab a mini ^^ ). And most important I think, ArenaNet gets to keep their Pet as the defining mechanic for the Ranger, they actually see more pets in the ranger mechanic, its just not always around. We all don’t get exactly what we want, but we also keep what we mostly desire, and our mechanic could well become fairly reliable and varied. More like a monkey up your sleeve, instead of a dog by your side. But is that truly something different from a beast master point of view?

I don’t like this idea, because there is no way I can see Anet keeping our wide diverse set of pets with the amount of work they would have to do overhauling pretty much everything to make this a reality. I see them reducing our pet selection down to 4, 1 for each F key, and then giving them very specific functions, like what the Mesmer or Guardian F Mechanic does now.

If that is the case, then I do not support this idea, because it gives us a much smaller toolbox to play with no matter how you look at it.

Fancy Fool.1743:

Aggrostemma.1703:

Hi Allie!

Can you do me a favor? Take your ranger to the lvl80 content please! (If you don’t have any you can ask one of the programmers to"cheat" you one)
Equip full ascended with legendary weapon. No-no, gear does not matter, it’s a choice of you!

Done? Great!

Now take this ranger to the new LA event! Do you know what’s going to happen?
1st second: entering combat
2nd second: your pet goes into combat
3th second: your pet dies
4th second: swap pet
5th second: set pet on passive
6th second: pew-pew
7th second: AOE incoming
8th second you dodge
9th second: your pet dies

Great, isnt’ it?

Now head to a random wvw map!

1, pew-pew
2, zerg incoming
3 your pet dies
4, you swap pet
5, your pet dies

Even if you keep your pet full passive on the ENTIRE content it dies.

Try this and tell us the story about your experience. Until you did not try our shoes you have no kittening idea how frustrating this bullkitten is.

What exactly does your post accomplish?

That Pets die too easily, and the AoE damage nerfs to Pets in Allie’s post a few days ago would go a very long way to reducing that problem (otherwise, yeah, there’s a rather trolly post there.)

Allie Murdock.8152:

The Ranger is designed to have a pet. If the pet was taken away or didn’t do damage, then it wouldn’t be a Ranger anymore. Does that make sense?

The only reason Rangers lose damage is because the AI is not currently what it ought to be. That doesn’t necessarily mean that we should completely redesign the Ranger and get rid of the pet.

Think of it this way: You’re building a house and a 2×4 breaks while you’re trying to screw it in to something. Do you scrap the house and completely rebuild it because that one piece broke, or do you grab a new 2×4 and use that instead? Which do you think would be more efficient?

I understand your point, but I’m not convinced that AI is the actual problem, but rather like most of the problems with Ranger pets, it’s a symptom of the problem.

To use your analogy, the 2×4 breaking is a problem, but what if the reason it broke because your doing it wrong or that the material was faulty to begin with?
Replacing that 2×4 doesn’t necessarily mean you won’t encounter the same problem or other new problems down the line, because you haven’t addressed the core underlying problem that caused these problems to begin with.

I believe that the core problem with pets is that they are design to be Always On.

-
For example, pet’s dying because of AOE. Part is there inability to mitigate damage, and their AI not knowing how to avoid said damage, and Players not having the commands to tell them otherwise.

But Mesmer Illusions have the exact same problems (only worse), and they are no less damage potential for the Mesmer as pets are for Rangers as their core mechanic. So why are Mesmers not crying bloody murder?

It’s because Illusions aren’t expected to survive. They are designed around being rapidly created and destroyed. So if they die, often times you can just replace them, maybe not with the Illusions that were destroyed, but others in your kit.
So it’s no big deal if they go down, you can even trait for it and make it an advantage.

-
If you were to go issue by issue, most of the problems can be linked back to the pets requirement to be always on.
Which begs the question, is it worth it?
It causes a whole host of problems, but what possible benefit do you gain from having pets always on vs summoning when you need them?

I think you could summon pets and have them function largely the same for the Ranger as a class mechanic, keeping traits mostly intact, circumvent a lot of these problems while also making pets easier to balance and diversify. (because of now having cooldowns and duration to work with)

I’ll type this up as a formal proposal, but I just want to stress that the underlying reason that causes these problem might not just be faulty AI or questionable design decisions, but rather something more fundamental as to how you went around designing pets in the first place.
And I suspect that if that problem isn’t addressed, it may just continue to create more problems for you down the line.

Yoh.8469:

I believe that the core problem with pets is that they are design to be Always On.

The greatest underlying problem of the problem you’ve described is that the pet is reponsible for 30% of our damage. It has to be always on. Otherwise we would lose damage. Ofcourse, there should also be a stow option, so you don’t run into problems like we do with scarlets hologram. But the biggest problem for me is the mindset behind the current pet. It is designed as damagedealer, as huge part of our damage. This implies that the pet is always on. I think I don’t have to give examples where this becomes an issue.

If the pet would only offer additional stuff to the ranger, he wouldn’t have such a huge loss if he has to turn the pet off for a while.

I only just found about this CDI from a post in General. As someone with 3 rangers at 80 I’d like to think I have something to offer here but after 52 pages and 12 days it doesn’t look like it now. I’ll just have to see what happens in game.

zenleto.6179:

I only just found about this CDI from a post in General. As someone with 3 rangers at 80 I’d like to think I have something to offer here but after 52 pages and 12 days it doesn’t look like it now. I’ll just have to see what happens in game.

I agree that the CDI turned out very big. It should be closed and divided into the main aspects, the pet, the weapons and the utility and traits. And those threads need more collaborative development.

Yoh.8469:

I understand your point, but I’m not convinced that AI is the actual problem, but rather like most of the problems with Ranger pets, it’s a symptom of the problem.

To use your analogy, the 2×4 breaking is a problem, but what if the reason it broke because your doing it wrong or that the material was faulty to begin with?
Replacing that 2×4 doesn’t necessarily mean you won’t encounter the same problem or other new problems down the line, because you haven’t addressed the core underlying problem that caused these problems to begin with.

I believe that the core problem with pets is that they are design to be Always On.

-
For example, pet’s dying because of AOE. Part is there inability to mitigate damage, and their AI not knowing how to avoid said damage, and Players not having the commands to tell them otherwise.

But Mesmer Illusions have the exact same problems (only worse), and they are no less damage potential for the Mesmer as pets are for Rangers as their core mechanic. So why are Mesmers not crying bloody murder?

It’s because Illusions aren’t expected to survive. They are designed around being rapidly created and destroyed. So if they die, often times you can just replace them, maybe not with the Illusions that were destroyed, but others in your kit.
So it’s no big deal if they go down, you can even trait for it and make it an advantage.

-
If you were to go issue by issue, most of the problems can be linked back to the pets requirement to be always on.
Which begs the question, is it worth it?
It causes a whole host of problems, but what possible benefit do you gain from having pets always on vs summoning when you need them?

I think you could summon pets and have them function largely the same for the Ranger as a class mechanic, keeping traits mostly intact, circumvent a lot of these problems while also making pets easier to balance and diversify. (because of now having cooldowns and duration to work with)

I’ll type this up as a formal proposal, but I just want to stress that the underlying reason that causes these problem might not just be faulty AI or questionable design decisions, but rather something more fundamental as to how you went around designing pets in the first place.
And I suspect that if that problem isn’t addressed, it may just continue to create more problems for you down the line.

but see, the mesmers illusions are not pets, they are manifestations of their skill use. And while you could build a rng like mesmer, it would not be a pet really.

Also the class is built to have the pet and the ranger playing off each other. A big part of the mechanic is supposed to be actively keeping your pet alive. the F1 and F3 skills arent on the Fbar by mistake, its actually supposed to be an important part of keeping the pet alive, telling it who, and what to attack and when to retreat.
(return to me should get retreat functionality in battle aka get away from the target, running behind me because return to me sucks in melee for defending the pet)
this is why ranger gets heals that heal both, access to regeneration, skills like vulnerability, etc.
swap is a defensive measure, this is why the cooldown is long if the pet dies, but not if it is swapped.
a lot of the high level play of ranger is supposed to happen at the pet management level, the problem is some of the tools arent refined, and that a lot of people never learned how to use their pet properly.

a great many rangers dont know you can lock a pet to a target with f1, or make it switch targets with f1, they dont know how the pet acts differently in passive mode. They dont know how to use return to me to avoid dmg.

Ranger IS a pet class, utterly and completely, its defense and offense at a high level is based on mastering control of the pet. I strongly suggest anet make another class for the people who dont want a pet but what long ranged DPS, because that class is completely different than what rng is about. They want long range burst damage preparation/strategy class, soloist, whereas ranger is a skirmishing pressure damage mix up focused team duo (pet and ranger) oriented class.

Essentially they want hawkeye ( http://atomicanxiety.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/hawkeye-widescreen.jpg )from the avengers movie, whereas ranger is beastmaster ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BeastMaster_%28TV_series%29 )

there is very little in common with these two archetypes other than the fact they both can use bows.

Allie Murdock.8152:

The Ranger is designed to have a pet. If the pet was taken away or didn’t do damage, then it wouldn’t be a Ranger anymore. Does that make sense?

Why do pets have to deal damage at all for the Ranger to be considered a Ranger?

Would the Nature Loving Ranger really not be considered a Ranger if for example, you introduced new pets like :: (examples Op slightly to show Utility)

Lunar Moth – The Luna Moth is a Pet that Buffs Allies and Removes Boons from Foes.
F2 – Lunar Cadence – Fly in the Target Area, Transferring Boons from Foes to Allies.
(1 boon every 2 seconds for 10 seconds)(5 targets max.)(50 second cooldown)

Solar Moth – The Solar Moth is a Pet that transfer Conditions from Allies to Foes.
F2 – Solar Cadence – Fly in Target Area, Transferring Conditions from Allies to Foes.
(1 Condition every 2 seconds for 10 seconds)(5 targets max.)(50 second cooldown)

common attacks
Auto Attack – very low damage, steals health twice. (1s activation)(steal health for pet, and steal health for Master)
Skill 2 – Sacrifice 25% of your health to break stun on a nearby ally. (breaks stun)(on ally and pet)(5 second cooldown)(Is not used when below 50% health)
Skill 3 – Heal allies when your Master falls below the health threshold. (90%)(same heal as the Moa’s Harmonic Cry)
Stats – Very low attack stats like Power and Precision. Low Toughness. High Vitality, and has Healing Power.
…..

There is one attack total in that idea that deals any damage at all, and I did make the pet a little self sacrificing, but the Utility value of a pet like that would be massive.

I don’t want my pets to be there just to deal damage. I want them there to be able to support me in a fight, especially if I am running a full glass cannon build with no survivability. I would like for my pet to be able to provide me with some amount of survival and utility, not just be a mindless NPC drone that only deals damage.

phys.7689:

but see, the mesmers illusions are not pets, they are manifestations of their skill use. And while you could build a rng like mesmer, it would not be a pet really.

Also the class is built to have the pet and the ranger playing off each other. A big part of the mechanic is supposed to be actively keeping your pet alive. the F1 and F3 skills arent on the Fbar by mistake, its actually supposed to be an important part of keeping the pet alive, telling it who, and what to attack and when to retreat.
(return to me should get retreat functionality in battle aka get away from the target, running behind me because return to me sucks in melee for defending the pet)
this is why ranger gets heals that heal both, access to regeneration, skills like vulnerability, etc.
swap is a defensive measure, this is why the cooldown is long if the pet dies, but not if it is swapped.
a lot of the high level play of ranger is supposed to happen at the pet management level, the problem is some of the tools arent refined, and that a lot of people never learned how to use their pet properly.

a great many rangers dont know you can lock a pet to a target with f1, or make it switch targets with f1, they dont know how the pet acts differently in passive mode. They dont know how to use return to me to avoid dmg.

Ranger IS a pet class, utterly and completely, its defense and offense at a high level is based on mastering control of the pet. I strongly suggest anet make another class for the people who dont want a pet but what long ranged DPS, because that class is completely different than what rng is about. They want long range burst damage preparation/strategy class, soloist, whereas ranger is a skirmishing pressure damage mix up focused team duo (pet and ranger) oriented class.

Essentially they want hawkeye ( http://atomicanxiety.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/hawkeye-widescreen.jpg )from the avengers movie, whereas ranger is beastmaster ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BeastMaster_%28TV_series%29 )

there is very little in common with these two archetypes other than the fact they both can use bows.

Except there is no “duo team” with the pet. We have absolutely no advantage that other classes don’t by our use of a pet and allocation of our damage onto it. We used to atleast be able to spread our damage out but then they nerfed the kitten out of our leash range so that is no more. The very fact that we have to melee to get maximum dps makes the pet even more pointless. What advantage is there to have a pet and ranger working at 70/30 in melee, so close that they are clipping into one another, over simply having a single player with 100% of the damage attacking the same target? There isn’t one, certainly not when the pet can’t dodge red rings of death nor function in WvW zergs at all. I don’t even target people with the pet and it still gets instagibed by aoe spam.

As long as we only equal 100% when working with the pet and it can’t body block enemies like pets can in other games, the pet is absolutely superfluous. A good player will always perform better than one of equal skill that has to share a portion of their damage with an unreliable AI.

We’ve had 1.5 years to roleplay Dar the Beastmaster and it has been a headache for anyone that cares about efficiency and respect in pve/wvw. We just want a class that isn’t a joke and works correctly. Flavor ALWAYS takes a backseat to functionality.

sMihaly.1492:

Please consider reducing pet aggro range, if it gets so many boosts.
Pets will just hunt down players, even if their master has no clue abut where his opponent is.
e.g.#1 I’m getting outnumbered at clocktower, so i stealth and leave through the window, “phew it was close, i hardly survived with 2k hp” then le pet finds me from nowhere and kills me with one hit. After its owner loaded the node he just has to look around for popping numbers to find me. …

e.g.#2 Not much to explain on this… just calculate the way the pet had to run from the roof to get to me.

1. Pets dont appear out of nowhere. They are slow so you shouldve seen it coming.
2. Just do the L-walk and pets do close to 0 dmg.

Specific Game Mode
PvX

Proposal Overview
Change pet’s from being Always On to Summons.
This means having individual durations, cast time and cooldown.

Goal of Proposal
To circumvent several problems inherit to being always on.

• Generic skills and functionality. (You can’t have powerful pets if they are then expected to deal consistent damage)
• Generic functionality leads to very predictable attacks which are easily avoidable, thus reducing the pets damage potential.
• Limitation on the number of pets you can have equipped at any given time.
• Subsequent long recharge times on pet death and swap. (Thus making unavoidable pet deaths much more frustrating and punishing.)
• Having both low number of available pets in addition to being easily killed, leads them the have further reduced damage potential. (And for the Ranger as a result.)
• Are forced to navigate terrain, often times poorly.
• AI faults become more pronounced.
• Player interaction with pets is limited, controls are basic.
• Traits effecting pets are limited in scope as pet functionally is also limited.

While also introducing several benefits.

• Having variable cooldowns and duration time would allow for much great balancing control.
• This would also allow for greater diversity in pet functionality. (You could have high damage AOE with short duration for example)
• You could increase the number of equippable pets up to 4, one for each of the F1-F4 keys. (And swap back to the current UI once the pet is summoned)
• More pets would increase build diversity, and make pet deaths less punishing.
• Travelling wouldn’t accidentally pull unwanted mobs, nor have them get stuck on terrain. (They would be stored away/recharging while on the move.)
• Summoning and pet death can be traited for, thus increasing build diversity.

Proposal Functionality
You start with your F1-F4 keys, each that can be bound to one of the pets in your collection.
Press the key and the corresponding pet is summoned, changing the UI to what we have now. F4 retrieves the pet, putting it on cooldown. (At a reduced CD, like picking up Turrets as an Engineer.)
The location of the summon is at default next to you, but this can be traited to be done at range. In addition you are locked out of you commands for 1 second to avoid accidentally using an unwanted command should the player double tab to summon them.

Pet’s have a set duration and cooldown relative to each pet.
If the pet is killed or runs out of time it unsummons allowing you to select a new pet.
(Perhaps after a brief delay.)
Thus each pet can vary wildly. Some can be for high damage over a short duration, while others are designed for more drawn out fights.
Pets could also use special attacks right after summoning, such as a Boar charging through the enemy ranks. This would increase build diversity and open up new tactics.
(This is in addition to their F2 skill.)

Traits could largely remain as is, but they could be increased to take advantage of the several new mechanics listed above.
Utility skills that only effect pets would have to be redesigned to effect both the Ranger and the pet. (Since your not guaranteed to have one out at the time.)

Associated Risks
Would require fairly heavy re-balancing, esp when it comes to sPvP. May not entirely fix associated problems, such as pets dying to AOE, but rather just elevate the problem.
May become too complicated for new players to get their head around.
(Namely with the UI switching after summoning.)

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Yoh.8469:

I believe that the core problem with pets is that they are design to be Always On.

The greatest underlying problem of the problem you’ve described is that the pet is reponsible for 30% of our damage. It has to be always on. Otherwise we would lose damage. Ofcourse, there should also be a stow option, so you don’t run into problems like we do with scarlets hologram. But the biggest problem for me is the mindset behind the current pet. It is designed as damagedealer, as huge part of our damage. This implies that the pet is always on. I think I don’t have to give examples where this becomes an issue.

If the pet would only offer additional stuff to the ranger, he wouldn’t have such a huge loss if he has to turn the pet off for a while.

The Ranger pet is no more damage potential for the Ranger as Illusions are for the Mesmer. The only real difference, besides being always on, is that pet’s can’t deal their damage reliably where illusions can.
And part of the reason they can’t deal damage reliably is because they are designed to be always on.

You can’t have something like a Phantasmal Beserker if it’s expected to hang around forever, follow you and take a lot of damage. It would deal far too much damage.
But if it is temporary, has a cooldown and is fragile, then that’s not a problem.

And so pets are made to be generic, and thus predicable. And predicable things are easy to avoid.

phys.7689:

but see, the mesmers illusions are not pets, they are manifestations of their skill use. And while you could build a rng like mesmer, it would not be a pet really.

You only completely missed the point.
Their functionality and AI is almost identical, except you have even greater control over your pet. They are things that exist, that can take and deal damage and are controlled by AI, and serve a similar purpose.

My point isn’t to make Rangers like Mesmers, but rather to contrast two very similar game mechanics, one which works as intended and one that clearly doesn’t.

Nothing that I suggest would change how the pet and Ranger interact, if anything it would improve it by giving you more ways in which you could interact.
What you fail grasp is what do you even gain out of having the pet out at all times besides flavor? Is there any mechanical advantage to that?

Because I can write a laundry list of problems it causes. (which I have)

What you fail grasp is what do you even gain out of having the pet out at all times besides flavor? Is there any mechanical advantage to that?

It’s kind of like;
There needs to be one.

Designing around the pathing problems and pet health as an endlessly awkward concept really pales in comparison to the notion there isn’t an easily understood reason this mechanic exists at all.

If this CDI accomplishes nothing else; a pet without any skills at all should still be something you want to have around.

Specific Game Mode
<PvE>

Proposal Overview
<I play Ranger with longbow and something really bothers me about the #1 skill and #2 skill on the longbow for rangers, #1 skill does far more damage with auto attack than using your #2 skill, the #2 skill should do more burst damage rather than using your #1 skill and auto attacking 1 arrow at a time, I’m not sure if it’s just me but anywhere I go this seems to be the case; maybe increase the cool down slightly on the #2 skill but at least make it on par with auto attack damage, so you actually have incentive to use it while going solo.

Goal of Proposal
<Fixing the damage on the #2 skill, I noticed on mobs the auto attack from #1 skill does far more damage than your #2 skill for the longbow, I realize the #2 skill provides vulnerability but when you’re roaming out solo in PvE it doesn’t really give you any incentive to use your #2 skill at all to be honest.>

Proposal Functionality
<Just a simple fix, to promote using your skills more often on the ranger longbow rather than afk auto attacking mobs because auto attack seems to do more damage.>

Associated Risks
<Can’t really see any risks, this makes sense to me, but if it doesn’t to others I’d like to hear their opinion on it>

Thank you =)

Chinese release is arround the corner (Tuesday).
In about 6 months they’ll have the same complains about ranger and will probably check western forums (if not already) to see why it’s still so awful after 2 years of release.
This CDI needs to succeed.

By giving us permastow.

A QoL thing about yellow targets.

There are some yelow targets that we cannot hit (using bows) – miasma canisters for example can only be hit with AoE oe melee. I keep getting “out of range” (even if its not) or “obstructed” (even if its not) in these cases. I know I have met othert targets like those… plz fix that. Same goes for our pets that cannot/refuses to attack some yellow targets.

Is this intended or simply a design flaw?

Atherakhia.4086:

Terravos.4059:

Atherakhia.4086:

Terravos.4059:

Atherakhia.4086:

Terravos.4059:

sMihaly.1492:

Please consider reducing pet aggro range, if it gets so many boosts.
Pets will just hunt down players, even if their master has no clue abut where his opponent is.
e.g.#1 I’m getting outnumbered at clocktower, so i stealth and leave through the window, “phew it was close, i hardly survived with 2k hp” then le pet finds me from nowhere and kills me with one hit. After its owner loaded the node he just has to look around for popping numbers to find me. …

e.g.#2 Not much to explain on this… just calculate the way the pet had to run from the roof to get to me.

Crap like this annoys me

What you just describe, is how every single pet class in the history of online gaming has worked…Do you know the solution all those other games came up with? Killing the Pet….Far to long the SPvP players of this game have requested dumbing down of Pet Classes because they don’t wanna adopt the strategy of dealing with Pets. Something that every other PvPer in every other game has managed to deal with, against pets that have been far stronger then the pets in this game.

If your solution to dealing with a pet class is “Please reduce the range of which a pet class can have his pet attack you” then you’re not actually very good at pvp.

While I agree, please also keep in mind that no other MMO that I can recall has given players the ability to swap between pets either. Asking a PvPer to dispose of 2 pets is a bit excessive and will need to be looked at once we get to a point we want to talk about pets and WvW.

There’s no way you an make pets survivable enough in WvW and also keep the ability to swap them imo.

Most MMO’s gave the ability for Pet users to instantly summon new pets…And generally those pets were far far more powerful then this game.

Its also not hard to kill a pet….See the video I posted previously, I was able to flat out kill Faux’s pet as a Condition Build……if i’m able to kill a pet that fast, imagine how fast Power Builds can do it.

Yes, you can do that now…

When pets are boosted enough so they aren’t 100% useless in WvW though? I would hope it would be a little more complicated.

And I’ve never played an MMO where they could instantly resummon a dead pet. They did have resurrect spells, but they were on 5min cooldowns and/or long channel times.

Rift let ya do it (Make your next spell instant, then pop the pet spell), DAOC let ya do it to some extent (Some classes this wasn’t viable, Bonedancers for example)

I’m trying to remember if I could resummon my Warlock pet in WoW, i think I could..its been a while (Looked it up, yea i could… 2 minute cooldown)

Warhammer Had Squig herders, and they had a fairly short cast time on pets (2 seconds) I don’t remember if I had to be out of combat to cast them…. I don’t think I did.

Most of these games had pets that were far far scarier then this games Pets.

Like I said, exceptionally long cooldowns and cast times. Resurrect pet was like 8 seconds. Summon Daemon was 8 seconds I believe. Never played rift. Squig Herder was 6 seconds iirc. In WoW, the Warlock could use the daemonology talent to instant summon like you mentioned. All of which in a game with a single pet.

The whole point is that in other games, the pet is a meaningful part of the class. To lose one comes at great expense (long cast, or at the expense of a long cooldown). In GW2, the pet is meaningless. We almost want to throw it away.

I wish it were like pets in WoW where they were a positive addition to the class and something we wanted to use and keep alive. They’ll have to be this if they’re ever expected to work in WvW at all. But the price to pay for a meaningful pet instead of the meaningless ones we have today will likely be at the expense of losing our ability to swap between 2 pets more often.

I’m personally fine with this. So long as the pets are a beneficial part of the class which is entirely the opposite of what they are today.

You pretty much always had 1 pet up at the start of the fight, meaning when it died you simply could resummon it (Demonology Warlock) instantly, so thats your second pet, Those pets were also much much stronger then pets in this game.

I’m not sure how hunter worked, I have no.. but i basically just got it instant 80 and never touched it.

Squig Herder, you sure it was 6 seconds? cause i’m looking at the tooltip right now, and it says 2 seconds cast time.

also, Pets in this game aren’t meaningless….They’re a large source of Ranger damage, and out primary source of condition removal…Pets dying in this game bloody suck.

I’ve seen people mention several times that the pets damage should basically be moved to the ranger, and replaced with tons of support and crowd control.

I think this would be very nice. The pet would feel like it is contributing to the fight, but is no longer reducing the ranger’s damage when it isn’t useful, like in attacking/defending walls in WvW.

If this was done, pets would not need scaling stats. Also aspects wouldn’t be needed either. However I feel like there should be a trait that allows the ranger to shift some of his damage back to the pet if wanted.

I think this would keep the pet as a valuable part of the class no matter whether you wish to emphasize the archer or the beastmaster parts of the ranger.

However this would require a complete rebalancing of all weapon skills on the ranger, and redoing all the skills on pets. This would be a significant amount of work.

Vox Hollow.2736:

What you fail grasp is what do you even gain out of having the pet out at all times besides flavor? Is there any mechanical advantage to that?

It’s kind of like;
There needs to be one.

Designing around the pathing problems and pet health as an endlessly awkward concept really pales in comparison to the notion there isn’t an easily understood reason this mechanic exists at all.

If this CDI accomplishes nothing else; a pet without any skills at all should still be something you want to have around.

That’s exactly the point. The current pets have no advatages, exept taking aggro from the ranger and the horribly slow and non-instant F2 skill.
The pets main purpose is to deal damage. Dealing damage is what the ranger already does. There is no advantage in using a pet.

Some more fleshed out thoughts behind Ranger Sub Classes.

An advanced Hunter with his damage dealing Pets could receive as Class Specialisation improved Traps, which can be manually activated, have bigger arena effects, can be used as ground target skills by throwing them basically .

As advanced Druids on the other side the Ranger could receive the mentioned Animal Aspects as new feature and my suggested Symbiosis Skills.

As an advanced Scout, the Ranger Player could receive the old Preparation-System from GW1 Rangers with that a Scout could have more influence on his Weapon Skills.
The Preparation System would be based litarally on the used Arrow Types and Oils/Extracts for non bow weapons

As an advanced Strider, the Ranger-Player would receive Strings for more controls in combat and improved moveability while using Instruments also, like Whistles for slihgtly improved support as a kind of jack of all trades that does in everythign a bit better, but isn’t in no area super specialized, like the other 3 sub classes.
Striders are somethign alike like this.
http://dragonsdogma.wikia.com/wiki/Strider
At least that was part of my inspiration

In general I’d love it, if ranged classes, especially here the Ranger as an advanced Strider would get more of the action RPG gameplay feeling like this:
http://dragonsdogma.wikia.com/wiki/Strider?file=All_Strider_Skills

The game also in general does alot of things right, that I’d love to see in general GW’s combat sysstem getting improved with to make it a much more fun and full of action combat system. But thats an other topic I know, just wanted to mention it.

PS, if you want to see a real epic battle, watch the video to the end, then you will see the potential, into which GW2 combat could get improved

Yoh.8469:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Yoh.8469:

I believe that the core problem with pets is that they are design to be Always On.

The greatest underlying problem of the problem you’ve described is that the pet is reponsible for 30% of our damage. It has to be always on. Otherwise we would lose damage. Ofcourse, there should also be a stow option, so you don’t run into problems like we do with scarlets hologram. But the biggest problem for me is the mindset behind the current pet. It is designed as damagedealer, as huge part of our damage. This implies that the pet is always on. I think I don’t have to give examples where this becomes an issue.

If the pet would only offer additional stuff to the ranger, he wouldn’t have such a huge loss if he has to turn the pet off for a while.

The Ranger pet is no more damage potential for the Ranger as Illusions are for the Mesmer. The only real difference, besides being always on, is that pet’s can’t deal their damage reliably where illusions can.
And part of the reason they can’t deal damage reliably is because they are designed to be always on.

The pet has no damage potential; and it oughtn’t.

It’s because Illusions aren’t expected to survive.

That’s the problem with your idea. So pets oughtn’t survive either?
That’s not how the ranger works. You’re not spamming your illusions until the enemy is dead, not caring about the pet at all. The ranger should use the pet to get an advantage and he should lose this advantage if the pet dies.
If I want to play with illusions, I pick a mesmer.

Thighum.7295:

I’ve seen people mention several times that the pets damage should basically be moved to the ranger, and replaced with tons of support and crowd control.

I think this would be very nice. The pet would feel like it is contributing to the fight, but is no longer reducing the ranger’s damage when it isn’t useful, like in attacking/defending walls in WvW.

If this was done, pets would not need scaling stats. Also aspects wouldn’t be needed either. However I feel like there should be a trait that allows the ranger to shift some of his damage back to the pet if wanted.

I think this would keep the pet as a valuable part of the class no matter whether you wish to emphasize the archer or the beastmaster parts of the ranger.

However this would require a complete rebalancing of all weapon skills on the ranger, and redoing all the skills on pets. This would be a significant amount of work.

This is why we’ve suggested that the beastmaster traitline should serve the purpose of shifting some damage back on the pet.

Furthermore, I don’t really think the weapons would be additional work to do.
Partly because some weapons have to be changed anyways since they’re weak how they are now, partly because they just have to increase the damage by a flat amount and change the pet interactions with the weapons. Instead of getting damage on the next hit, our pet applies a nice condition on the next hit.

arkealia.2713:

Chinese release is arround the corner (Tuesday).
In about 6 months they’ll have the same complains about ranger and will probably check western forums (if not already) to see why it’s still so awful after 2 years of release.
This CDI needs to succeed.

It is like this game has never left the beta balancingwise.

Chrispy.5641:

I don’t want my pets to be there just to deal damage. I want them there to be able to support me in a fight, especially if I am running a full glass cannon build with no survivability. I would like for my pet to be able to provide me with some amount of survival and utility, not just be a mindless NPC drone that only deals damage.

Right now it’s the other way round. There are countless traits where your pet gains X if you do Y. This is what bothers me the most: I don’t want to play support for my pet; I am the one who should get supported.

Orpheal.8263:

Some more fleshed out thoughts behind Ranger Sub Classes.

How do you want the subclasses to work? Ought they offer additional strengths or would you want to nerf the Main Classes first?
Example: If the Ranger subclass offers a pet, does a ranger who already has a pet get a second one?
Do we get a new skillbar?

Orpheal.8263:

Some more fleshed out thoughts behind Ranger Sub Classes.

I don’t believe that a subclass is the answer. I know that subclasses were brought up in the progression CDI but we don’t know if or when they would ever be implemented. I think if would make more sense to focus on fixing the ranger profession so it is like the others instead of adding more complexity to the system.

I know people have been focusing on pets recently, and for good reason, so I’m aware this may be overlooked. I just wanted to talk about some spirit ideas.

Specific Game Mode
PvX

Proposal Overview
Make spirits provide more conditional auras that a ranger can potentially build around. Thus, making them more interesting to use.

Goal of Proposal
A way of making using spirits more interesting and making their functionality more distinct whilst providing better support.

Proposal Functionality
Spirits would provide the ranger and up to five allies (prioritising pet and party members) with an aura much as they do now. Aura’s provide benefits that are more conditional, depending on the use of other abilities, rather than granting the same benefit roughly every 10 seconds.
Spirits would last indefinitely (or until killed much like Necromancer Minions) to balance the aforementioned conditional nature of their auras. This would probably mean they’d have longer cool-downs upon being killed.

Storm spirit.
Passive: Whenever you are knocked down, pushed or pulled the inflicter takes X damage (X second internal cool-down).
And, whenever you gain swiftness you gain X seconds of fury. (X second internal cool-down).

Active: Same as now, maybe grants swiftness as well but longer cool-down due to spirits not being on a timer.

Stone spirit.
Passive: Whenever you are interrupted you gain X seconds of protection (X second internal cool-down).
And, whenever you are critically hit in melee range the inflicter is crippled for X seconds. (X second internal cool-down).

Active: Same as now, but longer cool-down.

Sun Spirit.
Passive: Whenever you inflict burning you also inflict X second of blind. (X second internal cool-down.)
And, whenever you are blinded, burnt, or tormented you gain X seconds of retaliation. (X second internal cool-down)

Active: Same as now, maybe inflict burning instead or as well as blinding, longer cool-down.

Frost Spirit.
Passive: Whenever a foe blocks your attack you apply X seconds of chill. (X second internal cool-down)
And, whenever you apply chill you lose a condition. (X second internal cool-down)

Active: Same as now, but longer cool-down.

Water spirit —> Replaced with Spirit of Growth. (So we don’t have two water based spirits and healing skills, creating more of a general nature focus)
Passive: Healing you receive from all sources increased by 5%.
And, whenever you gain regeneration you gain X seconds of vigour. (X second internal cool-down)

Active. (Rename Overgrowth or Bloom) Healing you and your pet for X (more than “Healing Spring[’s]” direct heal but less than “Heal as One”) Grants X seconds of regeneration to all nearby allies and removed 2/3 conditions from all nearby allies.

Nature Spirit (still only lasts for a minute)
Passive: Provides an actual healing aura that scales with the ranger’s healing power (lower it’s base heal)

Active: Same. Give it a more distinctive affect, like a sudden surge of plant growth in the affected areas.

Change the three Nature Magic traits so something along the lines of:

Adept: Spiritual Knowledge – Spirits have 50% more health. Summon recharges 10% faster.
Master: Bring Nature’s vengeance here again. Is not strong enough as a Grandmaster if spirits don’s automatically die every 60 seconds and active effects are on a longer cool-down.
Grandmaster: Spirits Unbound – Spirits can move and follow you. They take X% less damage from all sources or each spirit aura grants an extra XX vitality or each aura increases boon duration by X%.

Associated Risks
Quite a drastic change, I realise that makes it quite unlikely.
Also, certain affects may be considered overpowered, but this could be balanced by the length of internal cool-down as well as duration of effect.

Specific Game Mode
WvW/PvE

Proposal Overview
Add abilities, skills and/or rune sets to the game that cap damage, reduce high burst damage, or reflect/retaliate high damage to reduce the effectiveness of burst damage. Would be useful for both monsters and and players.

Goal of Proposal
Reduce the dominance of burst damage in the game by creating situations where slow and steady damage more effective than burst damage, where doing high amounts of burst damage is dangerous to the attacker, and/or where maximizing damage over defense isn’t ideal. (Note that this last problem is only made worse by the increased inclusion of bosses with large hit point pools that must be killed before a timer runs out and the fact that dodge always works to negate damage.)

Proposal Functionality
Some suggestions (these are rough suggestions and starting points that would need to be carefully vetted and balanced):

1) An ability (monster ability, sigil, skill, or rune) that caps the amount of damage that can be taken in any single attack. Likely only acceptable for use with monsters and NPCs but could also work as a lesser form of Block for a limited time.

2) An ability that limits that reduces the amount of damage taken over a certain threshold by a percentage (e.g., 50% or 25% of the damage over a certain amount) reducing the effectiveness of burst damage. An example here would be to rework Sigil of Stone so that the passive ability reduces damage over a threshold by a percentage rather than increasing Toughness. Could also be implemented though a skill, trait, or rune ability.

3) An ability that works like Reflection or Retaliation but against all damage (including melee damage) or all damage over a particular threshold. This could be implemented as a skill, an “on hit” or “hit points below” rune ability, or a trait.

Given that both Reflection and Retaliation are quite effective counters to ranged attacks by Rangers and other classes and can make the mindless use of high-damage ranged skills dangerous, the third option may be the most promising way to force melee characters to think about using their maximum burst damage rather than mindlessly spamming it at their opponents. It fits well with the existing use of Reflection and Retaliation as well as Confusion and Torment in that the attacker will only take damage if they do the thing that will cause them damage, thus requiring attackers to be careful. Given how advantaged melee combat is in this game, it would be nice to see versions of Reflection and Retaliation that work against it.

Associated Risks
Just as Reflection and Retaliation can cause an attacker to kill themselves, a melee version of the same thing could cause the same problem, which frustrates players. Of courser anything that lessens the effectiveness of a build is going to frustrate the players who rely on it.

A general observation:

“It’s extremely important that we stay true to our philosophy that you should be able to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game in order to reach the most powerful rewards.” – Colin Johanson on Guild Wars 2 in the Months Ahead

(https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/colin-johanson-on-guild-wars-2-in-the-months-ahead/)

Allie Murdock has, throughout this thread, stated that the design philosophy of the Ranger is slow and steady damage rather than burst damage and that the pet is integral to the class concept. I just want to make sure it’s not lost that based on the player comments, this clearly clashes with the way many people want to play their Ranger. So this should raise the question of why the game won’t let people play their Rangers the way many clearly want to. Specifically (these have been mentioned again and again in this thread):

1) Many players want to play their Rangers as archers rather than beastmasters and aren’t eager to do that as Warriors. I see plenty of players running around in WvW with longbows (myself included) despite the fact that melee Rangers are more effective. Why? Because they don’t want to play a melee Ranger. They want to play an archer, yet the game punishes them for playing the way they want to play. Why?

2) There are many situations in the game where pets are worthless or even a liability (boss fights, WvW, etc.) and many players would like to stow them permanently in those situations or even all of the time so they don’t have to deal with them. They want to play a petless Ranger but the game won’t let them. Why?

3) The game mechanics currently favor high burst damage for success in many situations. This is why speed dungeon teams want characters in full ‘zerker gear and don’t like Rangers and it’s true in WvW where opponents who are not brought down quickly will either heal back up or run away. I’ve repeatedly brought enemies to near-death in WvW but have been unable to finish them off because of this. Ranger players want to be able to do burst damage because of this but the game won’t let them. Why?

There may be good reasons “Why?” for each of these question and there is some value in giving various classes niches and roles in the game but it’s clear from the feedback in this thread that that’s how many, many players want to play their Rangers. So I would argue that the “Why?” must be weighed against the philosophy that the players should be able to play the game they way they want and not the way the game forces them to play. The reason must be stronger than “Well, this is the way we envisioned the class and it’s too bad if that’s not how you want to play it.’”

Chrispy.5641:

Allie Murdock.8152:

The Ranger is designed to have a pet. If the pet was taken away or didn’t do damage, then it wouldn’t be a Ranger anymore. Does that make sense?

Why do pets have to deal damage at all for the Ranger to be considered a Ranger?

Would the Nature Loving Ranger really not be considered a Ranger if for example, you introduced new pets like :: (examples Op slightly to show Utility)

Some more suggestions:

Eagle F2: Marks an enemy – The enemy can’t stealth for the duration and all arrows shot at the marked enemy will hit (if not obscured or out of range).

Raven F2: Cripples an enemy for 3/4 seconds every 1/2 second for the duration of the skill.

Krytan Drakehound: Passive: Tracker – The drakehound can attack and use abilities on stealthed targets without breaking their stealth.
F2: Reveals all enemies in a small cone around the drakehound.

Bear AA: Knocks the target down
Spider AA: Removes 1 stack from stackable boons or removes 3 seconds of the duration of non-stacking boons.

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Orpheal.8263:

Some more fleshed out thoughts behind Ranger Sub Classes.

How do you want the subclasses to work? Ought they offer additional strengths or would you want to nerf the Main Classes first?
Example: If the Ranger subclass offers a pet, does a ranger who already has a pet get a second one?
Do we get a new skillbar?

Thighum.7295:

Orpheal.8263:

Some more fleshed out thoughts behind Ranger Sub Classes.

I don’t believe that a subclass is the answer. I know that subclasses were brought up in the progression CDI but we don’t know if or when they would ever be implemented. I think if would make more sense to focus on fixing the ranger profession so it is like the others instead of adding more complexity to the system.

They will be the answer definetely, but not for now! For the future of GW2.
Because as said, its a gigantuan task to implement somethign like that, nothing that is to be done, while the evs are just focused only on 1 class in regard of the whole discussion.
This is mostly something, what we cpould expect for an Expansion in the future, if they will be ever one, because its exactly that kind of content, that requires the tiem and ressources of an expansion to add Sub Classes to all of the currently 8 Basic Classes. Plus maybe later hopefully a last 9th basic class with the Lancer as 3rd soldier, so that this topic will finaly find an end too and all class types are even with 3 different classes.

There is no advantage in using a pet.

So, do you have any ideas on how to make the pet seem more naturally worthwhile without it’s skills outside of tanking in soloplay?

Vox Hollow.2736:

There is no advantage in using a pet.

So, do you have any ideas on how to make the pet seem more naturally worthwhile without it’s skills outside of tanking in soloplay?

Sharing buffs and debuffs, taking aggro, help skipping.

Buffs and Debuffs would be skills.
I’m more talking the baseline properties of pets. Sort of imagine F2’s and Family skills didn’t exist anymore, what would you want to do with what was left?

Still, stacking buffs or debuffs. The pet could inflict debuffs or stack buffs per hit.
But basically the idea is to shift the power from the autoattacks to the skills of the pet.

This is some ides on PvE mostly but the overall balance on Ranger class

Pets
To fix the ranger class i believe the pets need to go more into the support role, let the ranger do the dmg, even tankiness if ur building that way and let the pet do the utility, like buff, cc, and be apple to tank and withstand aoes.
As for me now i only use the pet for support, always on passive and just buff, or just press F2 on pets who have CC to at least have some timeing on it, even thought its never perfect cos of lack of ULs. xD

Everyone wants to be powerfull, when ur playing other classes u really find that power, ur useing build u like and u really CAN do stuff and u feel good, u can also change build but still feel that power, just up on what u like. On ranger on other hand, that 30% dmg that is SPENT on louse Al pets who we have really poor command over is just ridigilous, give the power back to the player and let the computer AL pets be OUR SUPPORT, not other way around.

Traits
Also on the trait line, it need to get overall rework, i know there is many build around in this game but at least have conti traits where condi are and power/tanki traits where u put points in tankiness and power, then its just up to the player what thay want. I really like the idea of Skirmishing on ranger, that u sayd u wanted this class be a little bit about (even thought: “Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows”, but i believe its never going to happens EXCEPT for the LB change i suggest here after) but then again it need a lot of rework.

Auto Attack Range
To be honest, i did reroll a ranger cos of this: Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows.
I really liked this idea but well, the ranger and the system in this game are not going to let this happen except if thay change a little there and there, like the auto attack scale with how far u targed is the more dmg u do (on ranged weapons, and yes, mesmers to) ur expect to be really far to do the must dmg but then if u are so far u wont get any boons from your group, u will just be alone in your own world just doing pretty poor dmg cos of no boons, but if u go in melee u will get the boons and u will probably do alot more dmg and u can also support your allies. This need to be fix, like the idea here be4, let the range not scale on how far u are, exept if ur like 1000+ then u get some buff, like 30% chance of might on hit or vulnerability on hit. That is i must if the range range are going to work.

The Spirit problem: it actually got really nice idea here be4, the aura on the ranger or the pet (ranger is maybe better) will really fix that, not that hard i believe to do so either.

PS. The Rabid Fire are suppose to be a burst skill, but its doing even lower dmg then our auto attack does, take that Rabid Fire out of LB and but some skills like Kill shot on Warrior, with the Hunter’s Shot, the SotH or Attack of Oppurtunity (if it will still be there after the rework) will at least give us one burst dmg and actually make ppl a little bit very while fighting oss., at least we would then have one skill that ppl needed to dodge like other classes have bunch of ^^

Thanks <3

Ankaran.1029:

PS. The Rabid Fire are suppose to be a burst skill, but its doing even lower dmg then our auto attack does, take that Rabid Fire out of LB and but some skills like Kill shot on Warrior, with the Hunter’s Shot, the SotH or Attack of Oppurtunity (if it will still be there after the rework) will at least give us one burst dmg and actually make ppl a little bit very while fighting oss., at least we would then have one skill that ppl needed to dodge like other classes have punch of ^^

Thanks <3

It’s Rapid Fire, but yes, you’re right.

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Chrispy.5641:

I don’t want my pets to be there just to deal damage. I want them there to be able to support me in a fight, especially if I am running a full glass cannon build with no survivability. I would like for my pet to be able to provide me with some amount of survival and utility, not just be a mindless NPC drone that only deals damage.

Right now it’s the other way round. There are countless traits where your pet gains X if you do Y. This is what bothers me the most: I don’t want to play support for my pet; I am the one who should get supported.

While I like using some build combinations where I am the one supporting my pet and letting it do all the damage (Magi gear mostly), I only do it for a change of pace. Its just not really that efficient because you can do way more damage and condition damage by yourself, without your pet ever coming into the equation.

The Other way around, (if you were dealing all the damage), your pet does a terrible job of supporting you because the skills and traits where your pet does support you, are all self sacrificing.

Currently the only thing that works perfectly between Rangers and Pets is putting our damage together into one giant Burst. (see This Video on youtube.), and our profession isn’t even supposed to be about that.

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Chrispy.5641:

Allie Murdock.8152:

The Ranger is designed to have a pet. If the pet was taken away or didn’t do damage, then it wouldn’t be a Ranger anymore. Does that make sense?

Why do pets have to deal damage at all for the Ranger to be considered a Ranger?

Would the Nature Loving Ranger really not be considered a Ranger if for example, you introduced new pets like :: (examples Op slightly to show Utility)

Some more suggestions:

Eagle F2: Marks an enemy – The enemy can’t stealth for the duration and all arrows shot at the marked enemy will hit (if not obscured or out of range).

Raven F2: Cripples an enemy for 3/4 seconds every 1/2 second for the duration of the skill.

Krytan Drakehound: Passive: Tracker – The drakehound can attack and use abilities on stealthed targets without breaking their stealth.
F2: Reveals all enemies in a small cone around the drakehound.

Bear AA: Knocks the target down
Spider AA: Removes 1 stack from stackable boons or removes 3 seconds of the duration of non-stacking boons.

Exactly like that. If I don’t have a High damage pet out (cats, etc.), and it really does remove up to 30% of my DPS potential by not having a cat/bird as a pet, then I should be getting an appropriate return on other aspects by using other pets, such as anti stealth, giving more boons, healing, more control, etc. It doesn’t really matter if its through new pets, or reworking old pets. All of our pets need to have a specific purpose, not just be mindless, unoptimized damage drones just because they aren’t cats.

I would like to see ranger playing an interrupt disrupter role …
More dazes and stuns, and have skills that deal more damage to people who are interrupted or under a cc ( this would promote more skill and less spamming)
If we go this route, Devs need to address for the fact that asura has an extra long daze compared to other race for possible balancing concern

@Tobias, I wanted to mention that I think this is one of the better [F]-key suggestions to improve control over the pet. Didn’t get to that yesterday, so I wanted to mention it now

Pet Active/Alive
F1 – Lock Target
F2 – Activate F2/Offensive Skill
F3 – Block (Pet channels for 2s and will block an attack made during that time.)
F4 – Heel/Switch Pets (Heel if in an attack animation, Switch if not. Pets may be switched again in 30 seconds after a switch.)
(Can still toggle Attack/Guard separately)

Pet Inactive/Dead
F1 – Call of Vengeance (Gain a damage bonus for the next 3 attacks, pet heal timer reset. Cooldown 20s)
F2 – Comfort Animal (Restore 25% health to the pet and it gets up.)
F4 – Switch Pets (Dead pet may return in 30s)

Basically letting the F# buttons have more control over a living pet, and letting you help a dead pet back up quicker.

Chrispy.5641:

Arghore.8340:

idea to put pets on F1-4 as summoned allies

I don’t like this idea, because there is no way I can see Anet keeping our wide diverse set of pets with the amount of work they would have to do overhauling pretty much everything to make this a reality. I see them reducing our pet selection down to 4, 1 for each F key, and then giving them very specific functions, like what the Mesmer or Guardian F Mechanic does now.

If that is the case, then I do not support this idea, because it gives us a much smaller toolbox to play with no matter how you look at it.

I full heartedly agree with you, doing it that way would be horrible!

Though I can see them doing it like the suggestion intended to work:
when out of combat
- click on Each of the F-keys to set a pet to it (from the current selection of pets), or a lil-triangle above the F-key gives access (like normal skills have), or there could be a pet UI window (most work) that lets you set pets to each F-key.

when in combat
- the F-keys get locked
- pressing an F-key ‘summons’ the pet linked to it.
- when the pet is summoned, the skill changes to the current F-key-skill associated with the pet.
- all other F-keys get ‘locked’ or as per Yoh’s suggestion, the whole interface changes to the current setup for the time the pet is up.
- when the ‘pet-uptime’ is over, or the pet dies, the summon system goes into cool down.

As far as work goes
- Most of the ‘modules’ that accomplish this UI-behaviour are already Coded.
- The ‘thing that isnt’ is an ‘uptime’ for the pet, which can likely be copied from another class (lots to choose from) and added to the pet.
- Depending on whether there is just one ‘control-pet-mode’ to ‘aggressive/heel passive’ or a full pet control on pet summon. There is more or less work, though the control part is also already made…

- As far as skills and traits go (while not having gone through them extensively, I glanced over a bunch yesterday though), those that I saw didn’t really have to be changed. A lot of heals and weapon additions for the pet can work just as well with the summon, a lot of traits would also benefit the summon. The only set and functionality that strikes me are the ones that deal with pet-swapping. But with the new mechanic it is pretty clear what these should turn into, traits that assist the ranger or pet, on summon, on despawn, or deal with recharge time, uptime of pet, or otherwise improve or slightly change the new system.

- Actually, apart from a ‘stow pet is indefinite until the stow pet button is hit again’, the Ranger gets a an overall buff (stats * X). The suggestion to make pets summons seems to be way less work than creating aura’s on a stow option, or add spirits to pets (which I personally don’t like at all, but that’s some other discussion) and also a lot less work then fully recoding the pet-AI. Though some improvements to the current AI would also benefit these ‘summons’ behaviour, as apart from the way they are brought into the game world, they would be governed by the exact same AI ‘obviously’…

idevourwater.3149:

I would like to see ranger playing an interrupt disrupter role …
More dazes and stuns, and have skills that deal more damage to people who are interrupted or under a cc ( this would promote more skill and less spamming)
If we go this route, Devs need to address for the fact that asura has an extra long daze compared to other race for possible balancing concern

I were to suggest you take a look at page1 and use the appropriate format for suggestions. Not that the suggestion is bad, but without the correct format it will get lost in-a-mids the general discussion

I don’t know when will they close this CDI (Maybe “never” ?)
but @ Pets:
Pets are part of the Ranger. They should reach/catch what We can’t.
They’re like the extension of our arms, and thats good.
In a way, they can be really good “ultility” bonus like all other classes has.

Arenanet will improve AI for all NPC, including our pets.
The only question is the control quality of them, and arenanet’s self-standards (which seems like they ignor a lot…) should be to make it the best amongst all the games ever made.

Enough of Pets. Enough of Traits. 52 pages of it “should be enough” by now
Let’s discuss about Ourselves! The way WE can fight; Dynamics.
In lack of heavy defense and the name of pinpointed Agility, we need to Evade a “lot” while fighting.
And as Hunting… we need anything that stops and interrupts our targets. Just like in GW1, but this time, even better!

And that skill CDs…. terrible :o
Weapons are not spells…

What I’m looking for here is an advantage that is always there. No matter what pet you have, or which of it’s skills are on cooldown, so long as the pet is alive this superpower is always there for you.

For example;

The Pet blocking Projectiles. This already exists, we just lack the means to really control when it happens and pet’s box isn’t tall enough, so it’s difficult to leverage as a consistent advantage.

Or Pet Body Blocking. This doesn’t already exist, but with proper ‘Go To’ commands it could functionally allow any pet to serve as a condition-less snare.

We can also discuss about future skills/weapons since we know that new ones will be added to the game at some point.

Specific Game Mode
PvX
Proposal Overview
Make pets useful to Rangers, without having them stowed like in the “aspect” suggestion.
Goal of Proposal
Improve Ranger overall power.
Proposal Functionality
Have every ranger weapon’ s skill have different effect based on the pet that is being used, this is very similar to Elementalit’ s glyphs with attunements.
This could solve many Ranger’s problems, for example give a certain skill on a certain weapon the effect to remove condition if you use a certain pet, and like this many different builds could come up.
This mechanic could be apllied to utilities instead of weapon skills.
Associated Risks
Make some builds (in particular beastmasters) too powerful.

I would like to point out something about aquatic pets, I have not seen yet in this thread.
When you equip two jellyfish underwater, they share the cooldown of the skill that is the same ability, but should not since they are two different pets.

Substance E.4852:

phys.7689:

but see, the mesmers illusions are not pets, they are manifestations of their skill use. And while you could build a rng like mesmer, it would not be a pet really.

Also the class is built to have the pet and the ranger playing off each other. A big part of the mechanic is supposed to be actively keeping your pet alive. the F1 and F3 skills arent on the Fbar by mistake, its actually supposed to be an important part of keeping the pet alive, telling it who, and what to attack and when to retreat.
(return to me should get retreat functionality in battle aka get away from the target, running behind me because return to me sucks in melee for defending the pet)
this is why ranger gets heals that heal both, access to regeneration, skills like vulnerability, etc.
swap is a defensive measure, this is why the cooldown is long if the pet dies, but not if it is swapped.
a lot of the high level play of ranger is supposed to happen at the pet management level, the problem is some of the tools arent refined, and that a lot of people never learned how to use their pet properly.

a great many rangers dont know you can lock a pet to a target with f1, or make it switch targets with f1, they dont know how the pet acts differently in passive mode. They dont know how to use return to me to avoid dmg.

Ranger IS a pet class, utterly and completely, its defense and offense at a high level is based on mastering control of the pet. I strongly suggest anet make another class for the people who dont want a pet but what long ranged DPS, because that class is completely different than what rng is about. They want long range burst damage preparation/strategy class, soloist, whereas ranger is a skirmishing pressure damage mix up focused team duo (pet and ranger) oriented class.

Essentially they want hawkeye ( http://atomicanxiety.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/hawkeye-widescreen.jpg )from the avengers movie, whereas ranger is beastmaster ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BeastMaster_%28TV_series%29 )

there is very little in common with these two archetypes other than the fact they both can use bows.

Except there is no “duo team” with the pet. We have absolutely no advantage that other classes don’t by our use of a pet and allocation of our damage onto it. We used to atleast be able to spread our damage out but then they nerfed the kitten out of our leash range so that is no more. The very fact that we have to melee to get maximum dps makes the pet even more pointless. What advantage is there to have a pet and ranger working at 70/30 in melee, so close that they are clipping into one another, over simply having a single player with 100% of the damage attacking the same target? There isn’t one, certainly not when the pet can’t dodge red rings of death nor function in WvW zergs at all. I don’t even target people with the pet and it still gets instagibed by aoe spam.

As long as we only equal 100% when working with the pet and it can’t body block enemies like pets can in other games, the pet is absolutely superfluous. A good player will always perform better than one of equal skill that has to share a portion of their damage with an unreliable AI.

We’ve had 1.5 years to roleplay Dar the Beastmaster and it has been a headache for anyone that cares about efficiency and respect in pve/wvw. We just want a class that isn’t a joke and works correctly. Flavor ALWAYS takes a backseat to functionality.

its not flavor, its actually the core of the archetype, what you are asking for is for the current ranger to die, and be replaced by another class. Why not just ask for the other archetype? then people can have both.

As far as the rng/pet duo, it can be improved, but theres actually a decent amount of it already.
If they make f2 responsive
have less pet animations root the pet
fix the order of command so they dont constantly self interupt
give some better retreat control

ranger/pets will be pretty beastly. probably get nerfed, but thats another story

Specific Game Mode
PvX

Proposal Overview
Make rangers dmg sharing with pet something player can affect.

Goal of Proposal
Give more freedom of choice to ranger of how they want to share dmg with pet. Open up build diversity.

Proposal Functionality
Instead of current system where ranger dmg is shared with pet make it so that ranger it self do 95% of dmg that this class should have and pet do 5% if no point is invested on bm tree. When player choose put points on bm tree he transfer dmg from hes attacks to pet attacks. So if no point is used on bm tree pet doesn’t do much dmg but still work as extra utility and can cause conditions and buffs. In other hand if player chose spend 30 points on bm tree pet come as strong it can get atm and ranger dmg is decreased to same it is now.

Associated Risks

All the ranger heals need some form of condition removal if they are ever to be used.

Heal as One can remove all conditions on you when used, reduce cd to like 15 seconds.

Troll Unguent can remove 1 condition every 3 seconds.

The water spirit needs the most help. Its proc heal should be increased to about 2k base if it will keep the 10 second internal cooldown on the proc.

The water spirit needs to give an initial heal when it comes out if it will have a cast time.

Also, each time you proc the water spirit it should remove 1 condition, and aqua surge should remove 3 conditions when used.