Guild Wars 2

My first problem is that every other profession can be build and be played without the “unique class mechanic”. There are thiefs never entering stealth and necros basically never going death shroud or summoning any minions. You can play an elementalist only attuning to water or a “pirate” thief with P/P and never using stealth. You cannot do this if you play ranger. You are FORCED to have and use your class mechanic!

The second problem is that I doubt that any of the devs ever tried the ranger class (only in sPvP). The new LA fights are just driving me crazy as a ranger. Basically I have no chance to save my pet but keeping it on passive and go longbow. All the AEs hit 900 where the ranger pets are staying. So even if I stay at this range and dodge backwards to avoid the holograms AE the pet stays inside the range and get one-twoshooted. If I dodge sideways out of the “energy beam of death” the pet stays inside! I don’t even mention the melee pets here since they melt before on the loading screen. I know this event can be done only pressing 1 but it’s still very annoying.

The third problem is in WvW. Here I doubt again that any of the devs every gave a zergfight a go. Pets are so useless here that I cannot really describe the feeling of the uselessness of our pets. They just don’t make it! They cannot dodge through, they cannot avoid AE’s, they are useless on walls and under them. I cannot even use the pets after the initial zerg engagement to hunt down separated enemies or support my teammates because 101% that I’ve already lost at least one of my pets in the first few seconds of the fight.

I don’t want to be forced to play something I find frustrating. And the current FORCED pet system is frustrating, annoying, illogical and weak yet we are bound to this system.

Aggrostemma.1703:

snip

The second problem is that I doubt that any of the devs ever tried the ranger class (only in sPvP). The new LA fights are just driving me crazy as a ranger. Basically I have no chance to save my pet but keeping it on passive and go longbow. All the AEs hit 900 where the ranger pets are staying. So even if I stay at this range and dodge backwards to avoid the holograms AE the pet stays inside the range and get one-twoshooted. If I dodge sideways out of the “energy beam of death” the pet stays inside! I don’t even mention the melee pets here since they melt before on the loading screen. I know this event can be done only pressing 1 but it’s still very annoying.

snip

This event and the ones like it, Tequatl, world bosses, and WvW zergs… Sometimes I think, yes, it’s just “pressing 1 and it’ll get done.” But then I think… What if everyone here at the event was also a ranger? Our damage is balanced with the pet, so without it, we’re said to be 7/10th of a full character. That means, if everyone was a ranger like me, the event would only have 7/10ths of what it’d have otherwise.

We would need (7/10 * x = 1 → x = 1.43) 43% MORE rangers to make up the difference, assuming all pets die and they make up 30% of our damage. That means if the event takes 100 non-rangers, then we’d need 143 rangers to match. That’s HUGE!

Of course, we’re not going to have a map full of rangers. But… then I think, gosh. If I just came with any other class, I’d be 1.43x more useful than I am right now. Even more, if I’m bringing a non-selfish boon-spreading class instead of my pet-supportive ranger. And then I feel incredibly guilty for gimping the team, because I’m in a situation that makes it impossible for my pet not to implode.

This doesn’t apply to all content. The Marionnet was pretty nice to our pets comparitively and we have our place with the Great Jungle Wurm (though maybe not so much at the final stage) – dungeons can be hit-or-miss but usually not that bad unless the bosses have rough spike damage—especially AoE—that has a shorter cooldown than our pet swap.

Specific Game Mode
<All.>

Proposal Overview
<Permanent stow pet, included in combat without receiving buff. In many cases it is worth to have 30% less dps, but to have better control of the character played. All other professions can be played without their class mechanics, mesmer clones doesn’t spawn, because the character is attacked, etc >

Goal of Proposal
<Avoiding undesired obstruction of views, for example attacked on jumping pusle, trigering traps, etc.>

Proposal Functionality
<Ability to stow pets permanently without receiving any buffs>

Associated Risks
<None>

One thing that came to my mind recently and sorry that it isn’t related to balane but …
Keep the design of the ranger animations and apply it to more classes please! The flow of the ranger, excluding the clunky sword#1, the simple animations are keeping the visual clutter low and thus your opponents move are still readable, not like with other classes (i’m looking at you Virtue of Justice and Burning effects).
Even if 5 ranger uses Hunter’s call (warhorn#4) you can still see whats happening and your eyes won’t bleed if you cast on large targets. Sigil of Fire anyone? Bah, that just hurts so much … ( ._.)

Nike.2631:

I get frustrated by the simple lack of synergy between skills. When you play a condi-necro and can dance through your buttons to put a bleed on the target & yourself with utility, then use your off-hand to move your bleed to them, then use a utility to copy all those bleed to all enemies in the area while putting conditions on yourself, then use your heal to cleanse those conditions and gain bonus healing for doing so… you know that playing those out of order or having to respond to changing circumstances will affect your performance.

Compared to that, ranger gameplay is just dull. You occasionally can stack up a few ‘on next hit’ buffs to pump a single maul, but their weapon skills and utilities mostly feel like oatmeal. There is no difference in what happens if I cast my traps in different orders. there’s no combos, no special order or special timing for many, many Ranger skills.

As a general statement there are also far too many ranger traits that reduce cooldown and nothing else – in other professions we’ve seen a steady march towards combing the 20% cooldown with a secondary flavorful effect. Rangers have good effects but they are spread out across too many traits. A little combining or making certain effects default behavior of the class would go a long way towards injecting not just raw power, but some cool into a class that sorely needs it.

Nike touched on some really good points here, which I hope don’t go unnoticed. The ranger could use a lot better synergy between skills. I think there should be more interesting combos that add more depth to ranger-combat. Plus some traits that have interesting side effects would really be a welcome addition. I’d like to see more overlap between traits and skills, so that one trait can dramatically alter the way other skills work. Because that’s what inspires interesting builds, something that many classes are currently lacking (not just the ranger).

In GW1 we had dual professions, which meant we could combine the powers of an elementalist with that of a ranger, to do fire damage. Or combine the powers of the necromancer with the ranger, to turn our pets into walking bombs. At some point a brilliant designer had the idea to change that, “cause pets aren’t meant that way”. Dumb decision, remove a clever cross-class skill combo.

Anyway, with the lack of dual professions, a large amount of depth is missing to the making of builds. Traits have sort of replaced the dual profession in my opinion but all those “reduce recharge” traits really don’t inspire anything, other than making a particular skill not quite as useless as it would normally be. I’d rather see traits do more than that, and add diversity and depth to the combat system.

WvsW
I appologise if i just missed it, but is something in sight to respond for the lack of hard control of the ranger making it pretty useless while melee un WvsW?

I did made a proposition earlier:
2 seconds immobilize at 300 range on swoot (GS3) when hit (5 targets max)

But i have not seen a lot of discussions about mass controls here. Is this part of the ranger fair for you?
While Playing other melee characters, i have a strong feeling that i can make a difference while controling the good place on the good time. With my ranger, it feels a bit week for me, and it is the reason why i dont use it on WvsW.

If you have some suggests…

barabajaga.7652:

Let me fix the class on some “easy” steps.

Nothing is easy when you’re talking about class balance.

1.Remove the pet ;they can not be fixed they will never be,they are a handicap and a source of frustration
2.A new mechanic Preparations:

We know that’s not happening if they can avoid it. So there goes your idea for replacing Pet with Preparations. Though I do like the idea, to a point:

They will also work as a weapon modifiers,so using certain weapons under certain preparations will make them have added effects or work different.

This runs into balance/testing issues since it would require testing across all weapons and all preparations. No offense is meant to the QA teams but testing is an issue for ANet even in the best of times . . . do we need to stress test them?

It is still a neat idea.

F1 Read the wind: Get a bonus to power (+60) and extra 300 range ,while under this preparation.Use your bows and offhands at max range without the need to trait.

Ooops, now we give away a Major Trait for free! Balance issue.

“Read the Wind”: Power +60 when using ranged attacks. Projectiles move quicker to find their target. (If this is possible.)

If you absolutely must make that added range easier to get, make it a Minor Trait which only functions in this Preparation.

F2 Marksman Wager:Get a bonus to precision(+60) and 25% increase speed.

So what’s the wager? This preparation was a very interesting skill due to how it altered Energy use back in the day. It was possible to really get some fun times out of it, but this is not a “wager” so much as “hey, let’s make a crit happy extra-fast character”. What happens if Signet of the Hunt is on passive? The speed is useless here, and the Precision is debatable to not be as useful as damage.

Try this:

“Expert’s Wager”: Gain one stack of Might (3s) with each successive hit, but when you miss this preparation’s effects are inactive for 15s. (Cannot trigger off objects.)

Hey, look, also potentially makes Rapid Fire useful for building Might quickly.

F3 Expert Focus:Get a bonus to toughnes(+60) and a small hp regeneration.

This doesn’t seem as useful as the other two. Try one of these:

“Disrupting Accuracy”: Attacks which critical will interrupt the target, with an internal cooldown of 10s.

“Seeking Strikes”: If your attacks would be blocked, they instead deal half damage. Conditions which would be inflicted will still not affect the target. Internal cooldown of 10s. If you miss the target, cooldown of 15s

Bring back stances:i still can understand that something so integral to gw1 ranger didnt make it to gw2.Escape,Dodge,Natural stride,Storm Chaser,Whirling defense….

Because Stances are one of the types of Warrior skills now, which notably they shared primarily with Rangers and Mesmers. Mesmers had theirs turned into Mantras (another subtype). Rangers had theirs now on passive signets.

Revert spirit functionality to gw1,and bring back FROZEN SOIL, EoE,and maybe Toxicity.Gw1 spirits were a double edge sword and that made it interesting to use,gw2 spirits are boring and passive.

Toxicity would be broken, Frozen Soil would have people quit in droves, Edge of Extinction is still not quite as useful except in some instances where it pushes into “broken”. Like, oh, counting Risen as a Creature Type . . . abruptly it becomes nearly indispensable inside Orr, doesn’kitten

Bring back Smoke trap.Because traps.

Isn’t that in the thief toolbox now?

And last but not lest where is my D-SHOT? .Seriously ,where is it?.

Savage Shot was always better for me. D-shot refused to work 99% of the time while I would land Savage Shot with the converse accuracy. Up to and including interrupts which shouldn’t have been possible.

While I would like my interrupt ranger back, they did away with that as a viable tactic as the other really good class at interrupts (Mesmer) lacks the same capacity.

The gw2 ranger is a shadow and a joke of what gw1 ranger was.

Interestingly, so is the GW2 warrior vs GW1 warrior. Especially put together. Mmm, Bunny Thumper or IWAY . . .

@Sam.6483

Yes, indeed. The ability to stow the pet in combat (with or without any buffs) is a Quality of Life issue. It opens loads of utilities and tricks by itself. Jumping of bridges, running through trash, rolling through AoEs or avoiding them while keeping the +30% damage in our pocket means more reliable +30% damage.

Not to mention in WvW or PvP you can cause more surprise since the foe won’t know any of your pet choice. You can ress someone who is lying under AC fire, summon your moa and give protection to yorself. You can be a kamikaze, run into a zerg, summon your wolf and fear them then swap to teddy and remove the conditions. So you can hold the pet summoning back until it’s necessary or advantageous.

Note: it is NOT a permastow issue! Who on earth is so stupid to give up 30% damage?!
But having the option to KEEP this 30% damage called pet out of danger is essentially!

So +1 for you, I hope the devs will spend a few minutes to discuss this!

Aggrostemma.1703:

My first problem is that every other profession can be build and be played without the “unique class mechanic”. There are thiefs never entering stealth and necros basically never going death shroud or summoning any minions. You can play an elementalist only attuning to water or a “pirate” thief with P/P and never using stealth. You cannot do this if you play ranger. You are FORCED to have and use your class mechanic!

Thief class mechanic is not stealth, it is Stealing. Also, there are plenty of rangers who don’t use their pet. Y’know, because it’s dead due to catching a massive AOE or someone dropped a WvW zerg on it.

The second problem is that I doubt that any of the devs ever tried the ranger class (only in sPvP). The new LA fights are just driving me crazy as a ranger. Basically I have no chance to save my pet but keeping it on passive and go longbow.

I’m not having the same issue. Of course, I need some micromanaging. And one pet is ranged (Black Widow) one melee (Wolf) . . . and they die less than some people in heavy. Weird.

Also, I’ve been using Longbow for “Condition Shield” and Shortbow for “Condition Crash”. Results have been good.

The third problem is in WvW. Here I doubt again that any of the devs every gave a zergfight a go. Pets are so useless here that I cannot really describe the feeling of the uselessness of our pets. They just don’t make it! They cannot dodge through, they cannot avoid AE’s, they are useless on walls and under them. I cannot even use the pets after the initial zerg engagement to hunt down separated enemies or support my teammates because 101% that I’ve already lost at least one of my pets in the first few seconds of the fight.

Two things. In a zerg, everyone is expendable until the enemy has more numbers. People go down and/or die a lot in zerg-on-zerg action. I don’t know how it runs on T1 servers, but I do know when I run with the zerg it’s expected if you die and the zerg is not winning, you had better waypoint.

Secondly, if you know your pet is going to get lost then leave it dead and bring it out after when you need it. It does you no good to have that second pet die as fast as the first when you can just save it for when it is of use.

I don’t want to be forced to play something I find frustrating. And the current FORCED pet system is frustrating, annoying, illogical and weak yet we are bound to this system.

I disagree. The pets are oftentimes weak, many of them seem purely situational, and the ones which are good are seen so much it’s a cliche. The lack of fine control, I really miss, but they work out for most small-scale PvE such as solo roaming the world in those dead regions nobody cares about.

Aggrostemma.1703:

My first problem is that every other profession can be build and be played without the “unique class mechanic”. There are thiefs never entering stealth and necros basically never going death shroud or summoning any minions. You can play an elementalist only attuning to water or a “pirate” thief with P/P and never using stealth. You cannot do this if you play ranger. You are FORCED to have and use your class mechanic!
<Snip>

I don’t want to be forced to play something I find frustrating. And the current FORCED pet system is frustrating, annoying, illogical and weak yet we are bound to this system.

True story; stealth actually isn’t the thief class mechanic. They just get more of it to use as mitigation, rather than blocks etc.
The thief mechanic is actually Steal and initiative. Steal is even more ignorable but can be traited to be extremely useful with only a few minor traits, readily strewn throughtout the tree.

Allie Murdock.8152:

cainejw.7142:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Think of it this way: You’re building a house and a 2×4 breaks while you’re trying to screw it in to something. Do you scrap the house and completely rebuild it because that one piece broke, or do you grab a new 2×4 and use that instead? Which do you think would be more efficient?

What I’ve been seeing a lot of is that you guys don’t necessarily dislike pets. What you dislike is how they act and how they are controlled. It seems to me that these are feelings that have been built up over time, and have culminated into “pets have to go” because you guys haven’t seen the improvements that should be made to pets to make them desirable. I certainly don’t blame you for getting to this point, but I do want to know the core of the problem before we start talking about rebalancing an entire class.

Not to be rude, but that analogy is horrible. The pet is not like a 2×4 breaking. As you’ve said, the ranger is balanced around the pet. This would be akin to a load-bearing wall giving way. The ranger pet holds up the ranger class and equalizes the load.

So what do we do? Replace the load bearing beam (here the pet) with a more functional beam, or do you just tell people to work around it and don’t look at it because you know it’s a broken beam, but you’ll get to it someday.

This is where rangers are. The load bearing beam has rotted. The structure is drooping. The foundation is not absorbing the load to continue keeping the house upright.

And you’re saying, “We’ll get to it eventually, but we won’t remove the beam. It’s a good beam.”

No, it’s a bad beam.

Fair enough. I don’t disagree with what you guys are saying, I’m just trying to help you understand the gravity of the suggestion. Didn’t mean for everyone to get so fixated on that part.

Sorry to harp on this, but help US understand the gravity?

We understand the gravity. Just please make sure YOU AND THE DEVS do.

Thank you.

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

I think the biggest flaw of the current ranger traitsystem is:
1. Traits regarding the pet are scattered all over our traitlines which reduces the possibility to build a build which doesn’t rely heavily on the pet-
2. The traits can be divided in “promotes pet” or in “promotes ranger”. If we want to trait for a beastmaster spec, we should be able to promote both us and our pet.
I also want to add Nike’s proposals regarding the traits since he summed up the whole mess quite nicely.

I’m having a very hard time understanding your issues with this.

Pet traits being scattered across all trait lines is due to the pet being the class mechanic and you see that across all classes. One or two pet related traits on the Adept or Master do not force you into a pet based playstyle since you still got alternatives. If you don’t like them you look at those traits and not at the pet traits.

Still, you highly exaggerate when claiming this to be an overall class/trait issue. The only trait line your argument applies to and which might need some cleaning up is Skirmishing.

That being said, I generally would appretiate more traits which affect both, the Ranger and the pet. However, I’m afraid that many people would just abuse the pet as a boon bot if something like this was introduced and that feels even less like fighting together than it is right now.

What bothers me about the compaints some people have about all these pet oriented traits being scattered around in other lines is who cares? Yes, they’re worthless… but if you build for Longbow, you still can’t get the traits you want even with the filler pet traits there. Skirmishing has the opposite problem… not enough good traits to get unless you build for traps filler pet traits or not.

The pet traits aren’t impacting anything. It’s the poorly designed ‘good’ traits that are the problem. I couldn’t care less about the filler.

I’m also not agreeing with the opinion to drop the pet because it adds to passive play. The pet feels passive because the F2 functions don’t work and we lack control of the pet. If ANet made F2 responsive and changed the F2 skills for pets to all have the same SHORT activation time instead of some needing 2+ seconds to go off while standing still, the pet would feel more valuable. THEN if ANet would actually give us control of the secondary skills, the pet wouldn’t feel passive at all and would actually compliment the class. Yes… this of course assumes ANet is the least bit capable of ever making the pet useful in WvW of course.

The weapons are the things that make this class so passive. The traits are an absolute mess, but you’re overstating the problem with pet related ones in various trees. The fact we offer nothing in WvW… these are things that need to be fixed.

Pets: The Shortlist

This is what I consider to be the short list for fixing pets in GW2.

Problem #1: F2 responsiveness– Pet F2 abilities need to be changed across the board. They should all have the same activation time (.5 to 1 second tops), they should begin casting when I hit F2. This is unnegotiable and the largest problem with pets.

Problem #2: Passiveness – Pets should be more engaging to use. This means giving Rangers control of their pet’s secondary skills. The class has an alarming lack of hard CC and damage, I’m not the least bit concerned about how overpowered this class ‘could’ be if I could control when my dog leaps and when it howls.

Problem #3: Control – The pets don’t have responsive controls. Told to come back, they take too long. Told to attack, most have some silly animation to go through before moving. When I push F1, the pet should be on its way to my target. If I push F1 again with the same target selected, it should return to me. If I push F1 and it’s a different target, it should attack that target. But above all else… when I push F1… it should do whatever state it’s in immediately! This now gives you the F3 function for our secondary attacks. Pets should also move faster than players. This way you minimize the issue of pets not hitting moving targets and you can count on your pet moving out of telegraphed abilities reliably.

Problem #4: WvW – The largest problem in WvW is that pets can’t survive due to random AE/splash damage. This needs to be fixed somehow. I don’t care if you give pets a blanket 90% reduced damage from AE in WvW/PvE, allow them to gain aegis when the Ranger dodges or uses a skill to evade, or give the pet dodge frames when the Ranger dodges/evades, simply make pets immune to damage while on passive and give them the ability to go back to passive if they don’t deal damage for 5 seconds. I don’t care… but these seem like the only viable solutions.

Problem #5: F2 Strength – A large number of F2 skills aren’t viable. Some of them aren’t useful simply because of the way they’re implemented (See above: All F2’s need the same cast time!), but many others are just so inferior to the alternatives available they never get any use. A complete pass of all pet F2 abilities needs to be done.

Problem #6: Traits – I don’t mind pet traits being in each tree, but these traits need to have more impact on the class. There’s no reason a trait shouldn’t affect both the Ranger and the Pet in some fashion. But on top of that, pet specific traits need to be removed and replaced with more general traits because many of us don’t run with 2 of the same pet, or 2 pets that may be attached to the same trait.

This is it. There’s nothing else wrong with pets and the way they’re implemented. The damage spread wouldn’t be an issue if pets worked and the above problems were fixed. Pets would hit more reliably if they were faster and their range were improved. We’d want to use them if F2 skills worked. They’d be a benefit to the class if we could control their secondary skills. Can this be fixed in 3 months? It better be, because I’d hate to think none of this was on ANets radar for the past 1.5 years before this thread was created.

Tobias and Wolfyrk: thank you for your intelligent comment and not calling me a noob!

I accept what you say about the thief, my bad! Stealth is not a class mechanic rather the signature ability. Initiative and Stealing IS class mechanic. They cannot really avoid using initiative.

Tobias: About your comment: every other profession has absolute control over their class mechanic or signature ability by choosing to NOT press a button. Apart of loosing some utility/damage for a few second they are not punished for too long. Nobody is forcing a necro to stay in the shroud as long as their life force depletes. Nobody forces the thief to use any ability just to use the initiative or use the steal on cooldown. Even if you are a Fresh Air ele nobody holds a gun against your head to switch attunement. You have control over your class abilities.

And this is what I (we/they) want. To have a bit more control over my class mechanic.

You said that I should let my pet die and summon the second one when the time comes… Why not just keep the pet alive? If I die it’s my fault and sure: people are dying in zergs. But if I survive… what is the reason for my pet to die? I was only maneuvering with the commander. I wasn’t even dealing damage! I didn’t need my pet damage dealing or utility abilities. Heck I was fighting for surviving and if I did manage it I was standing there alive with a penalty on my damage and utility. Why must I loose my class ability for only being there?

I do hope that you understand my point of view. It’s like if an elementalist manages to survive a zerg… put their attunement swap on a minute cooldown. Or a warrior couldn’t use adrenaline for 60 seconds… I think you can understand my point better.

Ok i must say something about ranger, just on how i feel about this all.

First of all, my ranger is the best geared char i have, i have spent so much on him and make him really what i imagine ranger to be.

But then again, first when i rolled a ranger i was wondering what class i wanted to be. I have play others mmos and i was like, “hey, why not a ranged dd,” cos that’s really my play style and what i love to play(from my exp on others mmos). After that i go on homepage and read about the classes, and hey, ranger, a char who rely on steady hands, bow and nature to survive and take ppl from distance, that’s definitely something for me.

I play him to lvl 80, never give up on him, give him the look what i wanted, best gears i can get and just, story and everything, grafting and stuff(trust me, that took time).

And now im here, and i have to say im really disappointed on how the ranger is now, to be honest i would not be here if i where happy about him. Hes not close what hes suppose to be, at least what devas says on homepage (that’s main reason why i play ranger). But i never give up on him cos i trusted the game designers to make him what hes suppose to be. After what? a year we finally get this treat, after a LOT of compliments. There is no coincident why ranger was what? 50% vote to remake or fix!

I just have to end this and say my hope are still here and i really hope i can get the play style i really wanted and i BUYED this game for.

PS: I really thought about reroll a gs mes cos hes maybe the closest think this game have for ranged damage dealers, but then again, it would not be the same.

Thanks<3

Substance E.4852:

The problem is that beast/minionmaster is an entire class identity unto itself. Shoehorning 2-3 different class designs into one body is what is causing a lot of our problems. We could be an archer/woodsman, a druid, or a beastmaster but we don’t have enough focus on any of them to perform those roles well. Beastmaster also suffers from the obvious limitations of the games unifiorm mob AI.

That is not true! If the F’s were 4 pet summons there would be more of a beast master vibe. If there would be a nature magic group the druids likely be fine, and with a bit of effort going into power there would be a viable archer.

The real problem is the ‘tag-team’ idea, which sounded nice on paper but doesn’t work at all! … See the best we could ever be is McGyver tag teaming with Justin Beaver, and just imagine them in a Pro-wrestling team, up against just a single wrestler like f/e Hulk Hogan (I know, it’s been ages since I seen any of that). McGyver in a ring without things to work with, and J.Beaver dire to get into any sort of trouble.

The mental image I get from that is J.Beaver dry humping Hogan’s leg, like its Selena Gomez. And Hogan holding off McGyver at arms legth by the head while he is franticly trying to hit Hogan. And you know it’s only going to get worse for the two of them from there on out.

And to be frank, that isn’t even that far off of how the Ranger feels like playing in various game formats. So, realy, I would rather be an Archer, Woodsman, Beastmaster, Druid rolled into one ( https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Suggestion-typed-out-for-the-CDI/first#content ) then to be this dysfunctional tag-team monstrosity.

And now that I am on this, I don’t want to feel like McGyver with a J.Beaver tag-team. I would rather like to feel like Chuck Norris, with the A-team on [F]-speeddial. Even if that meant I could only call upon 1 A-team member at a time…

Nike.2631:

Allie Murdock.8152:

I get the biggest issue seems to revolve around pets. I’ve also seen a couple others (utilities not being viable unless spec’d into them, burst vs sustain, traps, spirit clutter, etc.).

I get frustrated by the simple lack of synergy between skills. When you play a condi-necro and can dance through your buttons to put a bleed on the target & yourself with utility, then use your off-hand to move your bleed to them, then use a utility to copy all those bleed to all enemies in the area while putting conditions on yourself, then use your heal to cleanse those conditions and gain bonus healing for doing so… you know that playing those out of order or having to respond to changing circumstances will affect your performance.

Compared to that, ranger gameplay is just dull. You occasionally can stack up a few ‘on next hit’ buffs to pump a single maul, but their weapon skills and utilities mostly feel like oatmeal. There is no difference in what happens if I cast my traps in different orders. there’s no combos, no special order or special timing for many, many Ranger skills.

As a general statement there are also far too many ranger traits that reduce cooldown and nothing else – in other professions we’ve seen a steady march towards combing the 20% cooldown with a secondary flavorful effect. Rangers have good effects but they are spread out across too many traits. A little combining or making certain effcts default behavior of the class would go a long way towards injecting not just raw power, but some cool into a class that sorely needs it.

I like you nike, but part of the problem with professions is that there are too many gimmicky and situational mechanics stuffed into a too few buttons on the bar. there are reasons why warrior and ranger are the most played class, and part of that reason is that they are more straight forward compared. this is not a console game, despite having professions, the ui and controls being built similar to one, and the majority of players don’t want to have to jump through hoops in a circus act to perform certain things. this game needs less situational and combo mechanics because these gameplay gimmicks would not be labeled fun, considered deep or would be described as synergy by most. this game will continue to go sour if they give all classes the thiefish and elementalistish treatments. anet and the playerbase would best be served by adding more weapon, skill and ultility slots on the combat bar so options, choices and effects are up front and not hidden behind swaps and perfect set ups.

Swagger.1459:

Nike.2631:

Allie Murdock.8152:

I get the biggest issue seems to revolve around pets. I’ve also seen a couple others (utilities not being viable unless spec’d into them, burst vs sustain, traps, spirit clutter, etc.).

I get frustrated by the simple lack of synergy between skills. When you play a condi-necro and can dance through your buttons to put a bleed on the target & yourself with utility, then use your off-hand to move your bleed to them, then use a utility to copy all those bleed to all enemies in the area while putting conditions on yourself, then use your heal to cleanse those conditions and gain bonus healing for doing so… you know that playing those out of order or having to respond to changing circumstances will affect your performance.

Compared to that, ranger gameplay is just dull. You occasionally can stack up a few ‘on next hit’ buffs to pump a single maul, but their weapon skills and utilities mostly feel like oatmeal. There is no difference in what happens if I cast my traps in different orders. there’s no combos, no special order or special timing for many, many Ranger skills.

As a general statement there are also far too many ranger traits that reduce cooldown and nothing else – in other professions we’ve seen a steady march towards combing the 20% cooldown with a secondary flavorful effect. Rangers have good effects but they are spread out across too many traits. A little combining or making certain effcts default behavior of the class would go a long way towards injecting not just raw power, but some cool into a class that sorely needs it.

I like you nike, but part of the problem with professions is that there are too many gimmicky and situational mechanics stuffed into a too few buttons on the bar. there are reasons why warrior and ranger are the most played class, and part of that reason is that they are more straight forward compared. this is not a console game, despite having professions, the ui and controls being built similar to one, and the majority of players don’t want to have to jump through hoops in a circus act to perform certain things. this game needs less gimmicky, situational and combo mechanics like you are trying to display as fun or deep. this game will continue to go sour if they give all classes the thiefish and elementalistish treatments. anet and the playerbase would best be served by adding more weapon, skill and ultility slots on the combat bar so options, choices and effects are up front and not hidden behind swaps and perfect set ups.

The gulf between Warrior’s and Ranger’s gameplay is so staggering that I’m shocked you decided to compare the two.

Even if you just look at the infamous Hambow build, you can see that the synergy between the two weapon sets vastly outweighs those available to Ranger. There are numerous combos that you can pull off with Longbow/Hammer, and both weapons offer a visual impact that Ranger noticeably lacks (aside from the animal overlays on some weapon skills which I think are pretty neat). Whereas Warrior gives me a powerful, fluid vibe, Ranger just feels spammy and clunky.

When you throw traits into the mix, the difference becomes even more noticeable; Warrior has a lot of options available to them that work well with numerous builds (Dogged March, Cleansing Ire) and noticeably enhance their class mechanic, while Ranger traits tend to be more static and have this all-or-nothing mentality behind them (traps, signets, spirits).

The one aspect of Ranger’s current iteration that I enjoy is how mobile the class is. I love seeing how Rangers can “dance” around the battlefield in sPvP, and I think it would be wise for ANet to accentuate this style of play. However, something needs to be done about the majority of Ranger’s weapon sets to create more interesting and dynamic combat decisions because more often than not, simply spamming auto-attack is the best course of action.

To end, there is a stark difference between “gimmicky” combat elements (pistol whip spam on Thief) and synergistic combos (D/D Elementalist flow), and I’m not sure why you chose to throw the two in the same boat.

The biggest problem with this class is the 70:30 DPS split with our pets.

This is why there is no such thing as freaking power ranger right now, don’t even bother spinning it any other way. Just cause you kill down levels in WvW doesn’t mean power ranger is working.

Condi-builds are literally the ONLY viable build right now because that 30% damage is not reduced on our condi’s.

If Anet is unwilling to change this DPS split with pets, its honestly doomed.

There is absolutely no way my pet is worth 30% DPS, and that’s where the majority of this classes problems start – we do laughable power damage. There is literally no build diversity at all with this class.

Its basically condi/regen ranger. Thats the only viable choice in spvp/wvw.

Ya you can still do zerk in wvw and snipe a few downlevels in zerg from 1500 range lol, if you enjoy that kind of gameplay.

Too bad you will get your kitten rocked if try to pull zerk builds in pvp/roaming wvw.

If anet doesn’t change this 70:30 DPS split and doesn’t get rid of their ridiculous mantra of “we are great sustained DPS!!!” (which is a farce to begin with since literally every class has better sustain dps than ranger ), than nothing will drastically change. Rangers will STILL remain unwanted in WvW. Outside of spirits, remain unwanted in serious team arenas for pvp.

Could care less about PvE, any class can be viable in this mode (unless they actually make challenging content but that is not happening, too many casuals would cry if they couldn’t do something)

Get this ridiculous notion of rangers=amazing sustain and 70:30 dps split, than start making changes from there. Other wise nothing will change.

SkiTz.4590:

snip

The DPS split is an interesting topic and I’m sure Allie has relayed to the devs that we’re not really huge fans of it.

The main problem I have with it is that the DPS split simply is not justified. If our pets were not such a liability, the point would be moot; however, this is not the case and I constantly feel like I have to work around my pet rather than with it in order to succeed.

Warrior’s Adrenaline is always beneficial. Necromancer’s Deathshroud is always beneficial. Even Phantasm Mesmers can see the benefits of the various Shatters. With Ranger, pets are most often a drawback and our traits are set-up in such a way that we need to invest in ones that enhance or center around our pet in order to make them even remotely worthwhile.

If ANet could find a way to make the pet actually worth having around, I would be on board with keeping them; however, I simply don’t see this happening after one and a half years of the same-old-same-old, which is why I’m in favor of implementing perma-stow or a completely new class mechanic.

sorry for being off-topic here but just a question:

will there be also CDI’s for the other professions after the ranger is done?

SkiTz.4590:

Could care less about PvE, any class can be viable in this mode (unless they actually make challenging content but that is not happening, too many casuals would cry if they couldn’t do something)

Couldn’t disagree with this statement more.

I think the designers should put extra focus on the ranger’s role in PVE.

• How do pets work against bosses? If they don’t, provide a solution.
• How can rangers support their allies in PVE, and how does this weigh up against other classes?
• How can ranged combat be improved in dungeons?

I like barabajaga.7652’s preparation design. However, not on F1-4.
70:30 dps split? 100:~10 please !!
But what we basicly need is mutch higher ROF and NO CDs ON WEAPON SKILLS

Focus on WvW more if its THE endgame content.

Specific Game Mode: PvE

Focus: pets, spirits, traits, and weapons.

Most of what I would want to see changed or improved has been said by others, but I will state them nonetheless.

Pets
I feel a lot of aoe damage is lost because our melee pets do not cleave (except for the drakes). I think this is odd. I also dislike having to switch for drakes for the sole purpose of doing more aoe dmg when, for instance, the leopard and red moa are much better for the whole party due to the boons they provide. Since pets are supposed to do 30% of our total dps, I think it is not unreasonable to ask for melee pets to cleave so that they actually do 30% of our total dps.

As others have said, pets are too important to the ranger to be that squishy. They can’t dodge and eat a lot of (aoe) dmg, and they tend to face-tank the mob(s). I think some sort of aoe protection would help our pets to survive better. I would also like our non-tanky pets to automatically position themselves behind the target they are attacking. This way, they will avoid a lot of dmg simply because they do not eat every auto attack anymore. Tanky pets such as bears (and perhaps also drakes) should stay as they are.

Spirits
While I like the look of the various spirits, I agree with other posters that they clutter and take up too much space. They also, just like pets, die quickly in fights with lots of aoe dmg. The idea of aspects was brought up in relation to pets, but I feel they would be perfect for spirits instead. When summoning a spirit, the ranger could fuse with it and gain its power/aspect. This could be made visible by some type of aura/glow (although this should not make rangers who use 3 or more spirits too rainbowy).
When activating the second skill (cold snap, quicksand) the effect should surround the ranger, in the same way it currently surrounds the spirits.

The spirit thus becomes an aura/aspect of the ranger the moment he/she summons it.

Traits
About the traits. At the moment, too many traits are needed to make bows, and to a lesser extent traps, competitive/useful. This hurts the variety of builds players can make who like to play with bows/traps.

The trait “Honed/Axes” seems to suggest the main hand axe is a weapon meant for power builds, but the damage it does is currently way too low. They are also mainly used in conditions builds.
If rangers are meant to be resilient, they really do need some better condition removal capabilities.
Since they don’t, emphatic bond is almost mandatory for all builds.

Weapons
Last, I would like to see our weapons to become more distinct from each other. For example, the sword and great sword are both melee and power weapons, and the shortbow and axe main hand are too similar as well. In addition, the axe main hand is in need of a damage boost to make it useful for power builds.

SkiTz.4590:

The biggest problem with this class is the 70:30 DPS split with our pets.

This is why there is no such thing as freaking power ranger right now, don’t even bother spinning it any other way. Just cause you kill down levels in WvW doesn’t mean power ranger is working.

Condi-builds are literally the ONLY viable build right now because that 30% damage is not reduced on our condi’s.

If Anet is unwilling to change this DPS split with pets, its honestly doomed.

There is absolutely no way my pet is worth 30% DPS, and that’s where the majority of this classes problems start – we do laughable power damage. There is literally no build diversity at all with this class.

Its basically condi/regen ranger. Thats the only viable choice in spvp/wvw.

Ya you can still do zerk in wvw and snipe a few downlevels in zerg from 1500 range lol, if you enjoy that kind of gameplay.

Too bad you will get your kitten rocked if try to pull zerk builds in pvp/roaming wvw.

If anet doesn’t change this 70:30 DPS split and doesn’t get rid of their ridiculous mantra of “we are great sustained DPS!!!” (which is a farce to begin with since literally every class has better sustain dps than ranger ), than nothing will drastically change. Rangers will STILL remain unwanted in WvW. Outside of spirits, remain unwanted in serious team arenas for pvp.

Could care less about PvE, any class can be viable in this mode (unless they actually make challenging content but that is not happening, too many casuals would cry if they couldn’t do something)

Get this ridiculous notion of rangers=amazing sustain and 70:30 dps split, than start making changes from there. Other wise nothing will change.

This all depends on how you look at it. Most of the Ranger’s condis are single target. The Ranger also doesn’t have access to torment or confusion. They don’t have the coverage to protect their condis and they don’t have the ability to spread them at will or stack them rapidly on multiple targets.

Perhaps this is where that 30% split is being accounted for? Necros and Engis don’t suffer from these problems.

But that all said, you’re right and the condi meta in this game is completely out of the realm of reason and is not an indication that the class is fine, only that the class has a condi/bunker build that is as overpowered as every other class that has the same. If you look at sPvP you’ll find the only classes that are working right now are the condi bunkers and Thieves with stun lock.

Flytrap.8075:

The gulf between Warrior’s and Ranger’s gameplay is so staggering that I’m shocked you decided to compare the two.

Even if you just look at the infamous Hambow build, you can see that the synergy between the two weapon sets vastly outweighs those available to Ranger. There are numerous combos that you can pull off with Longbow/Hammer, and both weapons offer a visual impact that Ranger noticeably lacks (aside from the animal overlays on some weapon skills which I think are pretty neat). Whereas Warrior gives me a powerful, fluid vibe, Ranger just feels spammy and clunky.

When you throw traits into the mix, the difference becomes even more noticeable; Warrior has a lot of options available to them that work well with numerous builds (Dogged March, Cleansing Ire) and noticeably enhance their class mechanic, while Ranger traits tend to be more static and have this all-or-nothing mentality behind them (traps, signets, spirits).

There is a stark difference between “gimmicky” combat elements (pistol whip spam on Thief) and synergistic combos (D/D Elementalist flow), and I’m not sure why you chose to throw the two in the same boat.

“When you play a condi-necro and can dance through your buttons to put a bleed on the target & yourself with utility, then use your off-hand to move your bleed to them, then use a utility to copy all those bleed to all enemies in the area while putting conditions on yourself, then use your heal to cleanse those conditions and gain bonus healing for doing so… you know that playing those out of order or having to respond to changing circumstances will affect your performance.”

“Compared to that, ranger gameplay is just dull.”

the bolded above is what I was responding to.

having professions that require more tapping, swapping, cool down managing, positioning, press this-after this-after this-after this to do this and specific set ups to produce certain or similar results in this game translates to being gimmicky and not synergistic. some professions controls are designed to be more straight forward and streamlined, hence why certain professions are played more than others. the difference in profession mechanics and controls created an unnecessary difficulty curve, and that is part of the core problem I mentioned in a bunch of my posts on the forum. I understand that they wanted to make professions as unique as possible, but there are better ways to do it than requiring less or more swap and combo managing. this game would best be served by having more buttons on the bar to handle situations that have straight forward effects and results.

to put where I’m coming from into perspective…

i use to play city of heroes with 20+ alts. some were similar archetypes and some were not, but all of them were familiar to pick up and play. for the most part, controls and the way powers worked were much more straight forward. when i pressed a button it had and immediate effect and result, i didn’t have to jump through hoops to get the desired outcome, unlike here with certain profession mechanics. i had my options laid out on the combat bar at the ready and not hidden behind swaps and favorable weather conditions.

Atherakhia.4086:

SkiTz.4590:

The biggest problem with this class is the 70:30 DPS split with our pets.

This is why there is no such thing as freaking power ranger right now, don’t even bother spinning it any other way. Just cause you kill down levels in WvW doesn’t mean power ranger is working.

Condi-builds are literally the ONLY viable build right now because that 30% damage is not reduced on our condi’s.

If Anet is unwilling to change this DPS split with pets, its honestly doomed.

There is absolutely no way my pet is worth 30% DPS, and that’s where the majority of this classes problems start – we do laughable power damage. There is literally no build diversity at all with this class.

Its basically condi/regen ranger. Thats the only viable choice in spvp/wvw.

Ya you can still do zerk in wvw and snipe a few downlevels in zerg from 1500 range lol, if you enjoy that kind of gameplay.

Too bad you will get your kitten rocked if try to pull zerk builds in pvp/roaming wvw.

If anet doesn’t change this 70:30 DPS split and doesn’t get rid of their ridiculous mantra of “we are great sustained DPS!!!” (which is a farce to begin with since literally every class has better sustain dps than ranger ), than nothing will drastically change. Rangers will STILL remain unwanted in WvW. Outside of spirits, remain unwanted in serious team arenas for pvp.

Could care less about PvE, any class can be viable in this mode (unless they actually make challenging content but that is not happening, too many casuals would cry if they couldn’t do something)

Get this ridiculous notion of rangers=amazing sustain and 70:30 dps split, than start making changes from there. Other wise nothing will change.

This all depends on how you look at it. Most of the Ranger’s condis are single target. The Ranger also doesn’t have access to torment or confusion. They don’t have the coverage to protect their condis and they don’t have the ability to spread them at will or stack them rapidly on multiple targets.

Perhaps this is where that 30% split is being accounted for? Necros and Engis don’t suffer from these problems.

But that all said, you’re right and the condi meta in this game is completely out of the realm of reason and is not an indication that the class is fine, only that the class has a condi/bunker build that is as overpowered as every other class that has the same. If you look at sPvP you’ll find the only classes that are working right now are the condi bunkers and Thieves with stun lock.

Ranger is a single target DPS class, that is the unfortunate truth and would take a lot of change to make it viable in terms of doing AOE damage like eles or necros.

I’ll give you the fact that they can’t spread them to other targets (again, this class is pretty much designed only for 1v1s). Traps aren’t big enough to be considered AOE. But rangers can apply/stack them pretty quickly…maybe not stack as high as a necro but who can? My ranger builds can reapply condis pretty much at will (poison,bleeds and burns that is) yea would be nice to have access to torment or confusion

Still, the build variety would be much better if anet could actually add something to make viable power builds for our class, but there is no such thing right now outside of the joke of a swop + bash + maul combat, which any idiot can see coming. and effectively dodge/block out of it

barabajaga.7652:

Let me fix the class on some “easy” steps.

1.Remove the pet ;they can not be fixed they will never be,they are a handicap and a source of frustration.

2.A new mechanic Preparations:

How they work?:
They will be the new ranger f1 f2 f3
They will grant a bonus to the user while under each preparation.
They will also work as a weapon modifiers,so using certain weapons under certain preparations will make them have added effects or work different.
They will have a cooldown like elementalist attunements swap of 15sec
The beastmaster trait line will be removed in exchange of the preparations trait line.

F1 Read the wind: Get a bonus to power (+60) and extra 300 range ,while under this preparation.Use your bows and offhands at max range without the need to trait.

F2 Marksman Wager:Get a bonus to precision(+60) and 25% increase speed.

F3 Expert Focus:Get a bonus to toughnes(+60) and a small hp regeneration.

Rework and delete traits related to pet.

Remove shouts:they dont belong to a petless ranger.

Bring back stances:i still can understand that something so integral to gw1 ranger didnt make it to gw2.Escape,Dodge,Natural stride,Storm Chaser,Whirling defense….

Revert spirit functionality to gw1,and bring back FROZEN SOIL, EoE,and maybe Toxicity.Gw1 spirits were a double edge sword and that made it interesting to use,gw2 spirits are boring and passive.

Bring back Smoke trap.Because traps.

And last but not lest where is my D-SHOT? .Seriously ,where is it?.

The gw2 ranger is a shadow and a joke of what gw1 ranger was.

I read this about the F skills and almost cried from how amazing that sounds.

Rangers are actually much better at stacking conditions high than necros are. In fact, when it comes to getting high stacks of particular conditions, necros are fairly bad at it (unless it’s vulnerability). It takes a good amount of effort and build dedication to reach 20 bleed stacks for a necro. Their strength comes from variety, not raw power.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

SkiTz.4590:

Could care less about PvE, any class can be viable in this mode (unless they actually make challenging content but that is not happening, too many casuals would cry if they couldn’t do something)

Couldn’t disagree with this statement more.

I think the designers should put extra focus on the ranger’s role in PVE.

• How do pets work against bosses? If they don’t, provide a solution.
• How can rangers support their allies in PVE, and how does this weigh up against other classes?
• How can ranged combat be improved in dungeons?

1. You are usually in a party of 5. No pet is going to have a serious effect on a boss. They will merely scratch it. When I’m in a party and about to come up to the boss fight, I switch out pets for purely buffs (might/fury stack pets). That’s all they are good for in that type of setting, could care less if they do anything to change it. Pets working on bosses? Sorry but the other 4 members of my party could care less what a pet does to a boss. Other than draw agro and provide some might stacks, who cares? I don’t want devs wasting times on how pets can be improved for bosses lol. They show up, buff me, than proceed to die in 3 hits. Switch it out to next pet, buffs me, it also dies. If they change to where pets survive, again who cares? they merely scratch a boss. It’s not going to affect anything period.

2. Rangers absolutely suck at supporting a party , no doubt about it. There is only frost spirit + spotter + healing spring… you can compare those to what other classes bring to the table. Point is, it doesn’t matter ok. The PvE content is already face roll for the most part (high lvl fracs is a diff story but meta events/dungeons is absolutely easy with any class)

3. Ranged combat is terrible DPS currently. Sword is by far the best DPS weapon. Bows have to be improved in terms of DPS… they are seriously lacking. I don’t use them in any situation unless i’m going around meta world boss events and just sitting at range spamming 1 auto attack. Improving bows for PvE to be on par with swords is probably a tough call for the devs… simply because if Bows do equal damage to swords, than every little ranger will just sit at range and pew pew away instead of actually being skilled and trying to be in melee range

Aggrostemma.1703:

My first problem is that every other profession can be build and be played without the “unique class mechanic”. There are thiefs never entering stealth and necros basically never going death shroud or summoning any minions. You can play an elementalist only attuning to water or a “pirate” thief with P/P and never using stealth. You cannot do this if you play ranger. You are FORCED to have and use your class mechanic!

The second problem is that I doubt that any of the devs ever tried the ranger class (only in sPvP). The new LA fights are just driving me crazy as a ranger. Basically I have no chance to save my pet but keeping it on passive and go longbow. All the AEs hit 900 where the ranger pets are staying. So even if I stay at this range and dodge backwards to avoid the holograms AE the pet stays inside the range and get one-twoshooted. If I dodge sideways out of the “energy beam of death” the pet stays inside! I don’t even mention the melee pets here since they melt before on the loading screen. I know this event can be done only pressing 1 but it’s still very annoying.

The third problem is in WvW. Here I doubt again that any of the devs every gave a zergfight a go. Pets are so useless here that I cannot really describe the feeling of the uselessness of our pets. They just don’t make it! They cannot dodge through, they cannot avoid AE’s, they are useless on walls and under them. I cannot even use the pets after the initial zerg engagement to hunt down separated enemies or support my teammates because 101% that I’ve already lost at least one of my pets in the first few seconds of the fight.

I don’t want to be forced to play something I find frustrating. And the current FORCED pet system is frustrating, annoying, illogical and weak yet we are bound to this system.

Ok the class mechanic of a class is not just whats on the f4 buttons, its the things/mechanics the class has that others dont.

theif = steal/iniative/stealth skills
these things are considered in every facet of theif. you cannot play a thief at all without considering iniative, and no other class has iniative.

mesmer =illusions/shatters
a mesmer couldnt divorce its illusions even if it wanted to, 2 skill on every weapon set AT LEAST have illusion summoning

Sorry that anet is going to sacrifice ranger for marksman, i think the vocal minority is about to screw over 80% of the people who play ranger who play it because they have pets, or who have grown to like the class. I dont really believe the majority of people who play this class dont want a pet. But that seems to be what they are taking away from this.

And yeah your class mechanic is supposed to define your class, id say 3 classes it doesnt very much, and to be honest they suffer for that.

I really hope the make a new class for the people who really wanted a marksman (after they make the martial artist class) instead of trying to warp ranger into something it will never be that good at.

You dont really want a ranger if you want a long range burst dps solo profession, just getting rid of pets isnt going to make long bow into a sniper rifle, or allow you to hit people like people hit backstab. you will in fact be just a warrior clone with archer flavor. They need to build a class from the ground up to give you the type of play you are looking for, with a totally different class mechanic/traits/playstyle.

Aidenwolf.5964:

misterdevious.6482:

My personal preference is beastmaster first, druid second, wildman/woodsman third, archer fourth and it is quite clear that many people have those archetypes in the opposite order.

Had they named the class beast masters you’d be spot on. But we’re rangers which means we’re archers before pet handlers. My ranger in GW barely used her pet, but always had a bow.

My Ranger in GW used to teleport a Flamingo into battle to set everyone on fire. To each his own. In some early dev commentary they said that if the pet was optional it couldn’t be very powerful, and the pet had to be at a certain strength to be something that the enemy couldn’t just ignore. But buggy pathing and immobile melee attacks made the pet something that could be avoided which is practically the same.

As far as the power of names… it makes total sense now for a Guardian to be able to use a Mace and for a Ranger not to. But if you didn’t call it a Mace but instead called it Club, then it would make more sense for a Ranger to be able to use it (clubs sound woody and natural) and it would be weird for a knightly guardian to use a primitive club. The thing is we already have clubs and they are classified as maces. And I want one. The Ogre rangers (beastmasters) have them. sniff

Flytrap.8075:

If ANet could find a way to make the pet actually worth having around, I would be on board with keeping them; however, I simply don’t see this happening after one and a half years of the same-old-same-old, which is why I’m on board with implementing perma-stow or a completely new class mechanic.

I can totally understand that point of view. However, I personally assume that ANet so far didn’t actually work on the pet issue although they have been aware of it. Conclusively, pointing out the time it didn’t work might just be irrelevant. It probably didn’t have any priority. Therefore, I’m still optimistic the pet can be improved. The pet just has to be more responsive and more durable in certain situations. Having mained an Enchanter in DAoC – who sacrificed utility for the pet – and a Loremaster in LotRO – who sacrificed damage for the pet – I know it can work. Although people have to be aware that AIs will always have some disadvantages.

Of course, this won’t satisfy people who are looking for a petless archer. They quite obviously have to live with the fact that ANet won’t fulfill their expectations when it comes to the Ranger in GW2

Felices Bladewing.3914:

sorry for being off-topic here but just a question:

will there be also CDI’s for the other professions after the ranger is done?

If the devs are satsified with the outcome of this thread they might start similar threads for other classes. However, they didn’t promise it or said when this is going to happen.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

SkiTz.4590:

Could care less about PvE, any class can be viable in this mode (unless they actually make challenging content but that is not happening, too many casuals would cry if they couldn’t do something)

Couldn’t disagree with this statement more.

I think the designers should put extra focus on the ranger’s role in PVE.

• How do pets work against bosses? If they don’t, provide a solution.
• How can rangers support their allies in PVE, and how does this weigh up against other classes?
• How can ranged combat be improved in dungeons?

Got to agree with Malafide. Rangers aren’t that far off in PvP or when it comes to roaming. They mainly suffer in larger scale fights (e.g. WvW) or PvE endgame. Especially in PvE better coefficients on the Greatsword and maybe the Sword might help to make Rangers more appealing. However, this would cater the current zerker meta in PvE.

RoyalPredator.9163:

70:30 dps split? 100:~10 please !!

And how should that be justified?
A 100% should be 100% and therefore the pet has to be included somehow.

RoyalPredator.9163:

But what we basicly need is mutch higher ROF and NO CDs ON WEAPON SKILLS

No CD on weapon skills? What do you think causes the issues of balancing Thieves?

barabajaga.7652:

F1 Read the wind: Get a bonus to power (+60) and extra 300 range ,while under this preparation.Use your bows and offhands at max range without the need to trait.

F2 Marksman Wager:Get a bonus to precision(+60) and 25% increase speed.

F3 Expert Focus:Get a bonus to toughnes(+60) and a small hp regeneration.

While I like the idea of Preperations (I didn’t play GW1) F1 and F2 would provide way too much benefit (free speed and extra range). You can also expect Guardians to become pretty upset because it would be very similar to Virtues just a lot better.

SkiTz.4590:

3. Ranged combat is terrible DPS currently.

True. But this applies to every class. I guess Rangers just get more upset about it because they expect the class to succeed at range due to common arche types.

Arghore.8340:

Substance E.4852:

The problem is that beast/minionmaster is an entire class identity unto itself. Shoehorning 2-3 different class designs into one body is what is causing a lot of our problems. We could be an archer/woodsman, a druid, or a beastmaster but we don’t have enough focus on any of them to perform those roles well. Beastmaster also suffers from the obvious limitations of the games unifiorm mob AI.

That is not true! If the F’s were 4 pet summons there would be more of a beast master vibe. If there would be a nature magic group the druids likely be fine, and with a bit of effort going into power there would be a viable archer.

The real problem is the ‘tag-team’ idea, which sounded nice on paper but doesn’t work at all! … See the best we could ever be is McGyver tag teaming with Justin Beaver, and just imagine them in a Pro-wrestling team, up against just a single wrestler like f/e Hulk Hogan (I know, it’s been ages since I seen any of that). McGyver in a ring without things to work with, and J.Beaver dire to get into any sort of trouble.

I would actually pay to see this happen…well, so long as 60% of it is bieber getting his kitten kicked. McGyver would turn biebers bloody remains into some kind of frickin’ laser and pew pew to victory though…

Arghore.8340:

The mental image I get from that is J.Beaver dry humping Hogan’s leg, like its Selena Gomez. And Hogan holding off McGyver at arms legth by the head while he is franticly trying to hit Hogan. And you know it’s only going to get worse for the two of them from there on out.

And to be frank, that isn’t even that far off of how the Ranger feels like playing in various game formats.

The nail, you just hit it…

Arghore.8340:

So, realy, I would rather be an Archer, Woodsman, Beastmaster, Druid rolled into one ( https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Suggestion-typed-out-for-the-CDI/first#content ) then to be this dysfunctional tag-team monstrosity.

And now that I am on this, I don’t want to feel like McGyver with a J.Beaver tag-team. I would rather like to feel like Chuck Norris, with the A-team on [F]-speeddial. Even if that meant I could only call upon 1 A-team member at a time…

Mental note, make Norn Mr .T…..

More Flavourful Ranger
Since you guys have been talking about making Ranger more flavoured, suddenly I thought about the idea of having the Ranger’s skills change according to the pet a bit like how the Elementalist’s skill changes when in a different attunement.

Auto-Attack: Boring?
Anyway, when I played the Hunter in WoW, if I remember correctly, the Hunter ended up getting a high DPS due to a skill that hastes the auto-attack.

The part that didn’t make “auto-attacking” for the Hunter boring was to do with positioning, with making sure that you were in the right place at the right time to be able to land those simple auto-attack hits. A bit like if you were a backstab thief in this game. Or if you’re playing Mesmer and using the Portal to your advantage.

I guess if the game is set-up in such a way that it could be as rewarding as that, then auto-attacking wouldn’t be that “boring”.

Boring Auto-Attack Everywhere Else
Maybe Anet had made me a little desensitized to a “fun” gameplay since for instance, the Guardian builds for dungeon in PvE that involve the hammer and the Sword+Focus also mostly revolve around auto-attack. Are the Guardians in this community quite vocal about this too? =/

Besides, if you’re playing Sword/Pistol thief in dungeons, you also mostly only spam the #3 skill. It’s so close to being a spammy profession too. It’s only more varied in gameplay during trash runs in timing your mobility and stealth. And during ranged, it’s the same spam #3 skill in Pistol/Pistol.

Due to the fact that a “boring” gameplay is so prevalent throughout the game in other professions, I guess I never thought of asking the Ranger to go beyond that point.

I doubt any suggestions on weapons/pets that I could offer would be better than anything else everyone has said…so I only have one thing:

Could we please make the pets stand closer to the Ranger when they are idle/not attacking? It’s seriously annoying to dodge to get out of an AoE only to have Mr Whiskers re enter the circle of death because the ‘leash’ won’t let him sit right beside me where it’s probably safest.

I have just skimmed through the last pages VERY quickly…

• DON’T remove the pet!! I play beastmaster style (and I guess a bunch of other ppl do to) because I love to have my pet companion around. Without the pet the class would be broken if anything.

• The pets need to be looked over though.

• Perhaps ther could be a way to make the optional – by putting Points in Beastmastery traitline u get a companion.

phys.7689:

Ok the class mechanic of a class is not just whats on the f4 buttons, its the things/mechanics the class has that others dont.

theif = steal/iniative/stealth skills
these things are considered in every facet of theif. you cannot play a thief at all without considering iniative, and no other class has iniative.

If Stealth is part of the the thief class mechanic, how come three other classes have access to it? It’s as much the class mechanic as traps are the rangers.

phys.7689:

mesmer =illusions/shatters
a mesmer couldnt divorce its illusions even if it wanted to, 2 skill on every weapon set AT LEAST have illusion summoning

Sorry that anet is going to sacrifice ranger for marksman, i think the vocal minority is about to screw over 80% of the people who play ranger who play it because they have pets, or who have grown to like the class.

I’d like your source for those numbers, please. Also, in what way is allowing people to choose whether or not to use the pet at all times “screwing over” anyone? Those would use the pet 100% of the time, could still use the pet 100% of the time. It literally makes no difference to them.

phys.7689:

I dont really believe the majority of people who play this class dont want a pet. But that seems to be what they are taking away from this.

And yeah your class mechanic is supposed to define your class, id say 3 classes it doesnt very much, and to be honest they suffer for that.

Which classes and in what way do they suffer?

phys.7689:

I really hope the make a new class for the people who really wanted a marksman (after they make the martial artist class) instead of trying to warp ranger into something it will never be that good at.

You dont really want a ranger if you want a long range burst dps solo profession, just getting rid of pets isnt going to make long bow into a sniper rifle, or allow you to hit people like people hit backstab. you will in fact be just a warrior clone with archer flavor. They need to build a class from the ground up to give you the type of play you are looking for, with a totally different class mechanic/traits/playstyle.

I don’t think that’s what was being suggested at all, your post doesn’t in any way reflect the one you are responding to. Maybe you should take a breath and re-read what was being posted rather than knee-jerk responding? Aggrostemma’s post didn’t request a sniper or burst DPS. It was simply arguing against forced perma-pet. Arguing to not having a permenantly active pet is in no way asking for the entire class be turned into a pew pew sniper.

SkiTz.4590:

1. You are usually in a party of 5. No pet is going to have a serious effect on a boss.

Then that is something that could be improved.

SkiTz.4590:

They will merely scratch it. When I’m in a party and about to come up to the boss fight, I switch out pets for purely buffs (might/fury stack pets). That’s all they are good for in that type of setting,

Because they are currently bad. Make them good.

SkiTz.4590:

I don’t want devs wasting times on how pets can be improved for bosses lol. They show up, buff me, than proceed to die in 3 hits.

And why would you be content with that? That’s unforgivable. Pets should not die in 3 hits or less during boss fights. It renders them completely useless.

SkiTz.4590:

2. Rangers absolutely suck at supporting a party , no doubt about it. There is only frost spirit + spotter + healing spring… you can compare those to what other classes bring to the table. Point is, it doesn’t matter ok.

Of course it matters. This is a balance discussion, and you just admitted that they suck at support. So…. make them better at support.

SkiTz.4590:

Improving bows for PvE to be on par with swords is probably a tough call for the devs… simply because if Bows do equal damage to swords, than every little ranger will just sit at range and pew pew away instead of actually being skilled and trying to be in melee range

So they are not skilled if they used ranged attacks? Why not? And if that is the case, don’t you think the ranger would benefit from changes that would add more depth and strategy to ranged combat?

Specific Game Mode
All Game Modes (PvE, PvP, WvW)

Proposal Overview
Merge the total health pool of the Ranger to that of the selected pet.

Goal of Proposal
Generate more utility for pets, as well as incentive in maintaining them in battle as well as providing challenge to the ranger and adding a level of immersion.

Proposal Functionality
Effectively combine the health pools generated by the pet and the ranger into one master health pool (the red circle in the center) instead of having them separate as current. Damage to the pet leeches from the ranger’s health pool up until a threshold, which would be the total health contributed by the pet, after which the pet converts to its traditional “downed” state. Once below the threshold, additional healing that brings it above the threshold limit revives the pet until such a time that the health lowers again below said limit. Additionally, average or normalize the health of all pets to be equal across all pet families, but adjust their unique attributes, such as toughness on devourers, to compensate for any gain/loss of vitality. For further balancing, increase the amount of time between pet swapping.

Associated Risks
Situations where health constantly wavers between threshold limits could become glitchy or laggy with constant down and revival of pets. This could be additionally prevented by a debuff timer between revivals. In PvP situations, people could regularly pet swap (before pets are downed) to maintain higher health and gain an unfair advantage. (Unless swap cooldown is increased).

phys.7689:

Sorry that anet is going to sacrifice ranger for marksman, i think the vocal minority is about to screw over 80% of the people who play ranger who play it because they have pets, or who have grown to like the class. I dont really believe the majority of people who play this class dont want a pet. But that seems to be what they are taking away from this.

Phys, don’t sweat it. I honestly don’t think the devs are going to re-invent the wheel because the same 7 or 8 people are spam posting this thread with hyperbolic nonsense. What I think you will see, is a legitimate attempt to address pet survivability issues in zerg-balls and dungeons, and attempts made to increase their hit chance.

when this ends I hope I am not the only one who wants a write up of what is being taken and the future direction of the class. So far everything is ambiguous and there is no real clear image of the future of the ranger.

Criminal.5627:

when this ends I hope I am not the only one who wants a write up of what is being taken and the future direction of the class. So far everything is ambiguous and there is no real clear image of the future of the ranger.

Numerous people have brought this up throughout the thread and it still hasn’t been addressed.

phys.7689:

Sorry that anet is going to sacrifice ranger for marksman, i think the vocal minority is about to screw over 80% of the people who play ranger who play it because they have pets, or who have grown to like the class. I dont really believe the majority of people who play this class dont want a pet. But that seems to be what they are taking away from this.

And yeah your class mechanic is supposed to define your class, id say 3 classes it doesnt very much, and to be honest they suffer for that.

I really hope the make a new class for the people who really wanted a marksman (after they make the martial artist class) instead of trying to warp ranger into something it will never be that good at.

You dont really want a ranger if you want a long range burst dps solo profession, just getting rid of pets isnt going to make long bow into a sniper rifle, or allow you to hit people like people hit backstab. you will in fact be just a warrior clone with archer flavor. They need to build a class from the ground up to give you the type of play you are looking for, with a totally different class mechanic/traits/playstyle.

dear god i hope not, a few of us have actually suggested pet buffs, and to be honest i think if they gave pets the ability to burst even if players cant more people would be ok with them, or even if they put their damage on the combat text so players can see how much damage they are doing. most of the pet “hate” i think comes from players not seeing what the pets are doing and because their damage and response time is not where most players would like to see them… also the fact that they like standing in fire.

xallever.1874:

More Flavourful Ranger
Since you guys have been talking about making Ranger more flavoured, suddenly I thought about the idea of having the Ranger’s skills change according to the pet a bit like how the Elementalist’s skill changes when in a different attunement.

Creating a ton of new skills won’t happen. Even one new skill per pet family per weaponset would probably be too much (but it would be very cool.) A simpler way would be to allow the pet to influence our next attack.

Just as we can grant 50% bonus damage to our pet with Hilt Bash, a dog might do the same for us when it uses its Knockdown attack.

Just as we can grant swiftness to our pet with Hunter’s Shot, a bear might grant us stability when it uses its Defy Pain skill.

For the rest, take the longest cooldown non-f2 pet skills and figure out a good way for that pet family to directly benefit us, even when we are nowhere near it.

Aesthetic Improvement:

Improve the ANIMATIONS of the Ranger when using the main-hand axe. Currently, when throwing axes- equipped back-pieces and offhand weapons just disappear for a moment, before magically reappearing at the end of the animation. Less a class balance, more aesthetics but I feel it has to be said.

phys.7689:

Sorry that anet is going to sacrifice ranger for marksman, i think the vocal minority is about to screw over 80% of the people who play ranger who play it because they have pets, or who have grown to like the class. I dont really believe the majority of people who play this class dont want a pet. But that seems to be what they are taking away from this.

I don’t know where you get your number’s from or where you pulled it out of, frankly I might not want to know where you pulled that number out off, but we do not want to change ranger for marksman, we want to change beastmaster for ranger. There is a difference, get it straight. Not only that but we are not trying to remove pets from the game entirely. Read the post’s instead of putting words in our mouths. We want the OPTION of a permastow, so if we do not want to use the pet, then we can stow them away and be more like a true ranger instead of a beastmaster. When stowing of the pet the 30% damage comes back to the ranger. If you and everyone else that wants to be a beastmaster wish to be gibbed by 30% because of the pet, well, for each their own. We are not taking the pet away from you, all we want is the option to be a true ranger.

And no, the ranger class has never before used pets, the pet inclusion was something created by WoW if I remember correctly and adopted from there on other games. But from D&D to Everquest, no pets. In books, Aragorn, no pet (unless you count Frodo as a pet), Legolas, no pet (unless you count Gimli as a pet), Will treaty, no pet (except for one book where he found a dog and trained him then gave him away in the following book), Halt, no pet, unless you count his apprentice as a pet.

Every time ranger’s are mentioned it’s an archer that is pictured wearing a green/brown cloak where they can conceal themselves in the forest, not a person who goes and trains animals to fight (frankly that is kind of barbaric and against the law in many countries, let’s not even mention that it goes against nature itself). Ranger’s are suppose to be one with nature, Beastmaster’s are suppose to be one with animals. Understand the difference of what we are asking for before you start pulling number’s out of thin air and putting words in our mouths.

wolfyrik.2017:

phys.7689:

Ok the class mechanic of a class is not just whats on the f4 buttons, its the things/mechanics the class has that others dont.

theif = steal/iniative/stealth skills
these things are considered in every facet of theif. you cannot play a thief at all without considering iniative, and no other class has iniative.

If Stealth is part of the the thief class mechanic, how come three other classes have access to it? It’s as much the class mechanic as traps are the rangers.

Stealth doesnt have a counter → Thieves can spam stealth → profit.

Akisame.9508:

And no, the ranger class has never before used pets, the pet inclusion was something created by WoW if I remember correctly and adopted from there on other games.

Rangers could use pets in the original Guild Wars by slotting a specific skill onto your action bar, but they were by no means required to do so.

In fact, most Rangers decided not to use pets unless they were on certain team comps that were tailored towards minions.