Guild Wars 2

“Shame on you all, tons of rangers are quitting the game becouse of your blindness.
Next Update October 15th will be last train for many rangers like me.
If you fail…simply consider ranger class died out”

You realize by now these decisions are set in stone right? So the class is either dead or it isn’t by now. While some changes are coming I hardly think you are going to get enough to make you really happy with them. Just a gut feeling.

If they are still thinking about polls, why not send something in the mail to each player and if they don’t want to answer the questions they can just delete it. You could obviously make it fit by having someone like Keil/Logan/Caithe etc. write it.

KOPPER.1458:

“Shame on you all, tons of rangers are quitting the game becouse of your blindness.
Next Update October 15th will be last train for many rangers like me.
If you fail…simply consider ranger class died out”

You realize by now these decisions are set in stone right? So the class is either dead or it isn’t by now. While some changes are coming I hardly think you are going to get enough to make you really happy with them. Just a gut feeling.

Yes mate, I knwo myself there is no hope for ranger class
Just go reading ranger forums and look how many people are disgusted by Ranger current status.
Thx god new games are coming out..so..unless they do a good job on ranger..bye bye Arenanet))

Rama.6439:

NEGATIVE FEEDBACK ON THE FORUMS IS NOT ALOUD!

Handling of Ascended Weapons was atrocious

Anet totally forgot GW1 fans?

Is this game fixable?

Things I don’t like in GW2

Bosses got harder, loot is still meh

Despite promise, still no carrion ascended

Please don’t make us craft Ascended armour

Ascended Armour impressions

Condition Catastrophe

The only time I’ve seen threads (both positive and negative) get shut down is when they’re whining threads, are discussing another game, or have devolved into a ’I’m right you’re wrong’ match.

KOPPER.1458:

You realize by now these decisions are set in stone right? So the class is either dead or it isn’t by now. While some changes are coming I hardly think you are going to get enough to make you really happy with them. Just a gut feeling.

I’m pretty sure that by this point rangers would be really happy just with not being nerfed again. If at the same time one or two of their problems got addressed, they might die of ecstasy. What they need however – and need now – is a hope that something is being done to fix the class. Last months weren’t exactly helpful in that regard.

Yes, I do think there is an issue with the moderators on the forums, I don’t really want to quit the game but everytime you post feedback, negative or criticizing and it gets deleted and you get infracted and banned it gets frustrating, what is there to build on if all you have is positive feedback, you need to know what your problems and faults are in the game so that you know what your gamers are unhappy with in order to fix them and make the community happy, banning them from the forums makes that not possible. I have stated before in these forums that I like to give Anet a hard time, that I think it keeps them on their toes so to say, not that I don’t like them, I don’t even know them why would I dislike them, but when I get in trouble trying to tell them what I think they did wrong, I think that is just wrong all together. Makes me feel like the game is being run by communists.

Vayne.8563:

Ok I Did It.2854:

Interesting topic, they read constructive feedback, and yet when an update goes live its with changes that no one askes for, your community on here really isn’t that important to you, you will develop this game how you see fit, ( WvW Bloodlust ) hell, the dev for WvW even posted himself that the WvW community on these forums where the minority, then he made a hasty retreat into the depths and hasn’t been seen posting on here since.

How about instead of developing more and more in such a short space of time, they take the entire dev team up to the bug section/ tech support and fix or try to fix some of the game breaking bugs that have been there since beta last year………..no point in having a game if your players cannot play it because of bugs / glitches that are out of there control.

Else you should just remove the bugs/tech section of the forum and put a single post in there that reads, contact support direct to get told an answer from a book.

If they made a game with only stuff in it people asked for, I predict the game would bomb. People aren’t game designers. They know what they think they want, without considering the ramifications of what they’re asking for.

So many times we’ve seen the forums explode with stuff like killing a champion isn’t worth it. And the more worth it it becomes, the more the game deviates from its original intent. So Anet listened and made a change, based on, presumably, pressure from the fans.

And now we have champion trains and Scarlet invasions and people running around in mindless circles farming the same champions. Doesn’t sound to me like the game I bought.

Anet isn’t obligated to do everything fans want (assuming fans can even agree). And fan feedback isn’t necessarily going to be the way to go.

There have been games in the past where drop rates increased and money was easier to get, and all it did was create inflation to the point where new players couldn’t even get started.

For sure players are not developers and very often can’t see past their own noses.
I also don’t think Anet should cave to players but and this is a big BUT

I do think that players can give valuable input about whether something is working out for them or not.

Anet has a vision for the game and I really really hope that they stick to that but in a collaboration players can also give feedback on how these things impact our game play- we are the ones playing the game.

More importantly by having a line of communication we know what to expect and hopefully it is something we will all enjoy
Knowing the though process behind things in game is also helpful and can be extremely enlightening ( as an example see Kirsten Perry in the Sylvari forum)

Rama.6439:

Yes, I do think there is an issue with the moderators on the forums, I don’t really want to quit the game but everytime you post feedback, negative or criticizing and it gets deleted and you get infracted and banned it gets frustrating, what is there to build on if all you have is positive feedback, you need to know what your problems and faults are in the game so that you know what your gamers are unhappy with in order to fix them and make the community happy, banning them from the forums makes that not possible. I have stated before in these forums that I like to give Anet a hard time, that I think it keeps them on their toes so to say, not that I don’t like them, I don’t even know them why would I dislike them, but when I get in trouble trying to tell them what I think they did wrong, I think that is just wrong all together. Makes me feel like the game is being run by communists.

Unfortunatly my english is really bad..but I want let you know that I support 100% of your words.
That’ s it mate I have nothing to add.
Arenanet only accepts positive feedback..and deletes negative feedback.
True It’ s like Communist style ^^

Charak.9761:

RNG definitely needs work, there are no skill based rewards other than TM-W2 Storm Wizard skins basically.

Was just talking about this in the crafting forums.

In other games (ahem cough) I missed the ability to get extra materials from the bodies of the enemies I’d defeat because I had a high enough score in that profession (more clothe because of tailoring, herbs from plant enemies because I’m a chef/artificer in this title etc) I’d love for these resources to A: not longer be affected by DR for example no longer killing animals like bucks or doe and getting no leather from them or meat B: I’d love to see them change the way DR affects the mobs that are only there for an event so that when we’re doing an event if we’ve killed say 20 undead to get to the boss before the event starts we’re not getting mostly grey dusty bones from the mobs attacking the base for example.

It would make for much better experience.

Vayne.8563:

…People aren’t game designers. They know what they think they want, without considering the ramifications of what they’re asking for.

And Game Designers aren’t psychics that think they know the ramifications of what they’re adding without that player feedback. The one thing they should know is that if you give players something, they will not always complete it to the timeframe you expect (see: rush to push in ascended) or in the fashion you expect (see: dungeon exploits)

….And now we have champion trains and Scarlet invasions and people running around in mindless circles farming the same champions. Doesn’t sound to me like the game I bought.

The thing is, the game you brought, probably wasn’t the same game that was marketed to you either. Even what was marketed to you/sold to you, and what the game is now is not the same. There’s a general disconnect. (And I’m not talking about “promises” here either…just plain, “We will do this, and try and make this. We’re not just another MMO” then logging in, and finding it’s not like that)
This is what confuses me about your post.
You dislike where the game has gone, but don’t think feedback is helpful….but you’d surely have to give feedback to get it to be “the game you bought”, but that wouldn’t be helpful….

Bit of a catch 22 there.

Anet isn’t obligated to do everything fans want (assuming fans can even agree). And fan feedback isn’t necessarily going to be the way to go.

I don’t think anyone’s saying that. We’re asking for this communication that they so happily pride themselves on. The more we see it, the more we feel that our comments and legitimate issues (yes! there actually are legitimate bits of feedback like the illusive 3rd health on necro’s downed state, or Ranger’s pets not moving at the patched “33% faster speed”) are taken seriously.

TheDaiBish.9735:

[…]
The only time I’ve seen threads (both positive and negative) get shut down is when they’re whining threads, are discussing another game, or have
devolved into a ’I’m right you’re wrong’ match.

True and their derailing common denominator usually is Exalibur .-.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi Rama,

Sorry to hear you had posts deleted Rama. I will look into the said posts and try to provide more clarity to you. Note that feedback that is both positive and negative is absolutely admissible as long as it is constructive. If their is a moderation issue here then i will be really happy to get it fixed.

Chris

I asked whether selling spots in arah is allowed or not and my post got infracted and deleted…. too late now though, someone got an answer in the german forum and they said "It’s allowed as long as they don’t kick party members and don’t use exploits (afk belka, skipping lupi, etc…).

You know something that would be nice, and should be easy to implement would be a developer blog. I know the guy that did SAB attempted something like this, but if each dev of each team took 5 min a day/week to post what they have been doing for the game “behind the scenes” would give players the ability to see that the teams are working hard. It would also give the opportunity to receive feedback from the readers.

Example:
Michael Jordan says, “High folks, I am in charge of removing bots from game, gold sellers and gold buyers. This week we banned 532 accounts for botting, 664 accounts for selling gold, and suspended 2024 accounts for buying gold, while removing over 10,000 gold that was sold. By the way, keep an eye out for bots running in your champion farms as we have discovered quite a few there. Thanks and enjoy the game!”

Blizzard used to give these reports back in the day and when people see that you are actively working on something like this, they too will be less likely to support this industry.

Example:
Don Mattingly says, “Hey guys, I am one of the leads on a living story team. Lately we been working on a new event that an event that is all about recycling those worthless items you been keeping in your bank that have no vendor value. Things like badges, miniature components, tonics and so forth. This way you can get something for those items you collected. We are not sure what yet, but something along the lines of maybe bags, skins, food, who knows! We truly hope it will be something you like.”
One Week Later:
Don Mattingly says, “Hi again guys, my team has been doing a great job with our recycling event. We got the Asuran Recyclers designed and have decided where to place them within the world, that’s right, in the world, not Rata Sum. Now, you may have to do a few missions for them to get them to warm up to you, as much as an Asura can that is, but I think you will find the overall benefits worthwhile.”

I mean, everyone at Anet could do this to keep the community informed about things coming up. Like the precursor making. How many people are upset that it may get pushed into next year when it was said to be by the end of this year? Talking with the players on a regular basis will show us where you stand on different projects. And you don’t have to reveal a lot of stuff, just the basics on what you are attempting to do.

You dont even have to have the blogs receive feedback if that particular dev doesnt want it. Make a post and lock the thread. This would go a long way for players to get an understanding of what is going on, give leads an opportunity to publicly praise their team, and get people excited about what is coming out eventually.

Just a thought.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Pegaasus.3280:

KOPPER.1458:

“Shame on you all, tons of rangers are quitting the game becouse of your blindness.
Next Update October 15th will be last train for many rangers like me.
If you fail…simply consider ranger class died out”

You realize by now these decisions are set in stone right? So the class is either dead or it isn’t by now. While some changes are coming I hardly think you are going to get enough to make you really happy with them. Just a gut feeling.

Yes mate, I knwo myself there is no hope for ranger class
Just go reading ranger forums and look how many people are disgusted by Ranger current status.
Thx god new games are coming out..so..unless they do a good job on ranger..bye bye Arenanet))

Ranger balance is certainly something we discuss. I don’t want to derail the thread by going into more details, suffice to say we are aware of the perception and concerns and this is certainly an area we will discuss as we move forward. The plan for Collaborative Development moving forward will allow you to discuss your concerns with the developers and brain storm idea etc.

Regarding your current feelings toward stopping playing, that is totally your choice, and whilst we would be sad to see you leave please understand that ‘threats’ of quitting aren’t going to magically get you what you want. I just want to be clear about that.

Chris

ehm keep this attitude and you’’ ll see what Gw2 will be in one year from now^^ : a dead game.
Listen to me: Start taking seriosly negative feedback..and maybe you’’ ll save this game.
I’ ve seen too many players quitting this game in the past months and above all rangers.
My words are way more constructive than any other words like : You re doing a great job bla bla bla ^^
Regards

nethykins.7986:

Vayne.8563:

…People aren’t game designers. They know what they think they want, without considering the ramifications of what they’re asking for.

And Game Designers aren’t psychics that think they know the ramifications of what they’re adding without that player feedback. The one thing they should know is that if you give players something, they will not always complete it to the timeframe you expect (see: rush to push in ascended) or in the fashion you expect (see: dungeon exploits)

….And now we have champion trains and Scarlet invasions and people running around in mindless circles farming the same champions. Doesn’t sound to me like the game I bought.

The thing is, the game you brought, probably wasn’t the same game that was marketed to you either. Even what was marketed to you/sold to you, and what the game is now is not the same. There’s a general disconnect. (And I’m not talking about “promises” here either…just plain, “We will do this, and try and make this. We’re not just another MMO” then logging in, and finding it’s not like that)
This is what confuses me about your post.
You dislike where the game has gone, but don’t think feedback is helpful….but you’d surely have to give feedback to get it to be “the game you bought”, but that wouldn’t be helpful….

Bit of a catch 22 there.

Anet isn’t obligated to do everything fans want (assuming fans can even agree). And fan feedback isn’t necessarily going to be the way to go.

I don’t think anyone’s saying that. We’re asking for this communication that they so happily pride themselves on. The more we see it, the more we feel that our comments and legitimate issues (yes! there actually are legitimate bits of feedback like the illusive 3rd health on necro’s downed state, or Ranger’s pets not moving at the patched “33% faster speed”)

I’m sorry, people aren’t game designers? Are robots game designers?

This is why we have said many a time that Anet should play with us more, and without the Anet tags. To see what the community is saying and doing and what they are wanting, most of the time when I do see an Anet employee they just stand there for 5 mins and do nothing like they are afk then they disappear. Drop the tag, play with us, do some of these easy dungeon runs and champ farms that are getting older and older. We need new stuff, not revamped stuff, if you guys played with us you would get that.

Well you say people aren’t game designers, I say game designers aren’t GAMERS!

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I think the thread is getting pretty of track at this point. We have discussed implementation of the 3 threads and had some pretty enjoyable conversations.

if we have nothing more to contribute about the Collaboration process then i suggest that we think about closing the thread, as folks who want answers on questions that are not on topic are going to get frustrated if i don’t discuss it with them.

Do we want to continue talking about the main topic of the thread?

Chris

Absolutely. Collaborative Development is a tremendous improvement over the state of communications between the community and ArenaNet that’s existed since launch.

I don’t play GW2 any more, but I do watch what’s happening because I loved Guild Wars so much and for so many years – I’ve been hoping to see some changes that might bring me back into GW2.

So I absolutely want to see where this idea goes – and therefore where the game goes.

Keep it going chris, because if you just close the thread, you will just be giving those nay-sayers more fuel, right?

Like the ranger issue. You stated that is it being addressed and if those that dont like instant gratification cant accept that, then hat is their issue. But to keep up your end of the bargin, at least make a comment somewhere in a few days or so that it s still being addresses. Maybe a locked forum titled “Areas being reviewed”?

I would sticky it for the weekend players to peruse, but I suspect left open it will derail further. I think 19 pages of largely constructive chat has covered all the bases

My only real concern at this point is, while you have been open minded Chris and allowed us to vent a little while still discussing concerns I don’t have the faith that all the Devs will handle it as you do. I hope that I am wrong because it would be nice to have discussions such as this thread (though at little less all over the place) but I don’t see it happening, there has been many great ideas that have been shut down with no discussion for what seems like nothing more then it wasn’t the Dev’s idea so it couldn’t possibly work. I think this is where some people were going with the ego’s earlier in the thread. I really do hope the others are as patient and considerate as you have been, sometimes even if an idea can’t be done for whatever reason, its nice to hear “thats a good idea, and while we can’t do exactly that we may be able to do something along those line”.

Leagues were a good example, the team was going forward with 2 leagues regardless of how much the community complained or even pointed out logical reason’s why it was a bad idea. Finally weeks later with many, many posts, and much complaining the team sort of listened.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I think the thread is getting pretty of track at this point. We have discussed implementation of the 3 threads and had some pretty enjoyable conversations.

if we have nothing more to contribute about the Collaboration process then i suggest that we think about closing the thread, as folks who want answers on questions that are not on topic are going to get frustrated if i don’t discuss it with them.

Do we want to continue talking about the main topic of the thread?

Chris

I have one last suggestion. After the selected topics are decided upon, posted and discussed. Could we maybe have a topic regarding feedback upon the process of collaborative development?

I find that often it is easier to suggest alternatives or find strengths and weaknesses in the way of doing things, once they have had a trial run

Ahh Chris
this has been a very positive step- I can’t wait to see how it develops.
even though this thread is getting very long I think it is not a bad idea to leave it for the weekend because many people might have missed it during the week.
It is up to you and have a nice weekend

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Absolutely that’s a great idea. so how about this:

After the first round of three threads. we create a main thread in general called:

Phase 1 Collaborative Development Feedback

Leave that open for 2 days and then i will list the actions we will take to improve the process?

Chris

Sounds perfect to me

The big question still remains, how will these new feedback features and collaboration differ from the feedback that has already been constructively and maturely given over the last year?

The problem has never been poor communication between developers and players, it has been developers not acting upon feedback. Over the last year constructive, mature feedback has been given, developers have responded, developers acknowledge and promise to do something about said feedback, then developers fail to deliver on said promise.

I feel like this thread has achieved nothing.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I think the thread is getting pretty of track at this point. We have discussed implementation of the 3 threads and had some pretty enjoyable conversations.

if we have nothing more to contribute about the Collaboration process then i suggest that we think about closing the thread, as folks who want answers on questions that are not on topic are going to get frustrated if i don’t discuss it with them.

Do we want to continue talking about the main topic of the thread?

Chris

Chris, thanks for posting and being willing to address these issues.
BUT, word of warning. Quite often players (myself included) are a bit short sighted on what they want, and as a result they clamor loudly for what really is not in their best interest. Ten thousand players yelling loudly that they want more DPS for their class does not make it a smart move, regardless if there is a poll indicating 99% approval for such a move.

Also, I read that you intend to send DEVs to speak on the Class sub-forums. Well I don’t know who it is you are going to send to the Ranger sub-forum, but whoever it is needs to be paid bonus hazard pay, and he should be advised to take out a life insurance policy before he goes in.

Using the Ranger sub-forum as an example, just look at what is being asked for. On the one hand there are the terri-bad players that according to them the pet is 100% useless, dies from a breeze and makes them useless. On the other hand are the elite-pro players with 4k rigs and the reflexes of a tennis pro who are asking for a dozen more buttons to push so they can micro-manage the pet down to when it takes a poop. And all of this will be asked for despite the fact, that in general, the class plays fairly well and is highly competitive in most venues of the game (WvW roaming, Open-world PvE, PvP, and depsite the outcry – even in dungeons). Now of coarse this class needs some work and some tweaks (especially in a few boss encounters in dungeons), but be very careful – because you could end up breaking what is not broken – despite the whine.

But I only used the Ranger forum as an example – I’m not picking on them at all (I have an 80 Ranger). Because you are going to encounter this in each and every single sub-forum regardless of the class – and yes, even in the Warrior and Guardian sub-forums.

Anyway, best of luck and thanks for the feedback,

Ision

Here’s some short and concise feedback from a Day-One player:

I’ve just now sat in the character creation screen and pondered what class I should play. My only max level character is an engineer. I couldn’t come up with anything because the thought of going through the way to 80 again put me off. I want to play your game, Anet, but I can not bring myself to actually do it.

I’d say “It’s not you, it’s me!” but we all know what that means.

Chuo.4238:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I think the thread is getting pretty of track at this point. We have discussed implementation of the 3 threads and had some pretty enjoyable conversations.

if we have nothing more to contribute about the Collaboration process then i suggest that we think about closing the thread, as folks who want answers on questions that are not on topic are going to get frustrated if i don’t discuss it with them.

Do we want to continue talking about the main topic of the thread?

Chris

Absolutely. Collaborative Development is a tremendous improvement over the state of communications between the community and ArenaNet that’s existed since launch.

I don’t play GW2 any more, but I do watch what’s happening because I loved Guild Wars so much and for so many years – I’ve been hoping to see some changes that might bring me back into GW2.

So I absolutely want to see where this idea goes – and therefore where the game goes.

I agree here, I do still play the game, but a lot of the people I started with quit when the living story was implemented, some took a break and when they came back and saw they couldn’t make up content got upset and quit, myself I have gotten addicted to WvW but as of late have lost interest there also, but there is nothing out there for me right now and want to stick around and see where the game is going, I played GW, was in the beta and played it for awhile. But when they announced this game I kept track of it, I waited for this game for years, was really excited for it and was looking forward to a lot of things in it that were in GW, and was really disappointed that they weren’t in game when it was released, but of course it was new and figured it would be in soon, then no expansion, and no talk of all the things that were in GW being put into GW2. Sad. Very Sad. Me. But one can always hope, even though it does seem futile.

I don’t know how difficult it might be to implement this, but here is a suggestion that might be well-received by the playerbase.

If the forum threads could indicate when they have been updated by a Dev post, instead of having to peruse the Dev post thread, it would be very helpful and informative. I know the forum shows when new responses are added to a thread you have read, but showing that a Dev has posted in it again would be great. At least, I think so. Dev posts often bring the thread back on track, as they can wander afield, sometimes.

Thank you, Chris, for all your attention. I am sure we all look forward to hearing what the Devs have to say. = )

Chris, the ideas you have on moving forward from here, based on posts in the thread look really promising to me.

One, possibly selfish, doubt I have is the following:

In a big temporary thread on a topic, I can’t possibly go to the depths that I can in opening my own thread like the one over here.

With just a focus on one topic at a time, I’m afraid that a big thread like mine, with all the added input from others and tweaks based on valid concerns, may still feel undervalued.

One very active thread at a time can be very good at seeing what’s going on in the community and is obviously a lot less time consuming than answering multiple threads individually. But I can’t see myself putting in so much effort on posting in a thread that’ll be gone in a few days. (Knowing that writing just a short, more superficial response is probably my best shot at getting a dev response and the people in the thread to actually read what I’ve written)

In short: I’m afraid that one big active thread will dominate all this new dev activity on the forums.

Chris,

I appreciate your cander in this matter, and its true, sometimes players emotions get the better of them. Realize, although this wonderful game lacks a subscription, gems awhich buy items therefore become an investment, although, in the longterm eventually would have been a mere temporary investment, saying if GW2 every stopped its service and closed down. So people can get emotional, much like the world we live in and in which you get paid for (be it contractual or salary) when things are taking a turn in an unfavorful direction of which they would have prefered.

There is a reason that in many states, gambling is not legal, and although in GW2, we are doing it digitally, it still can publicate as a monetary version in real currency, and with the use of RNG mechanics truly cites the reasonings of the bad values of this form of mechanism being used today.

Furthermore, after an experience last night which left me fairly bitter at the mechanics of this game currently and the lack of in game costumer services, I now will tread in a different stance of a less entertained client or in otherwards, taking a step back and I am going to see what is going to be done in the future. This is not a threat, please consider this, that dependant on this games direction and information of the direction, will ultimately steer me to a clear levelheaded direction or choice of whether Guild Wars 2 will continue to a hobby of mine.

To cite the incident that happened to me last night, so you can have an understanding ofmy feelings in this. But before I publicate it for you and the viewers, I believe its important to understand my gaming history.

I have been playing MMOs, GW2s, venue since near the very first of them, yes the MUD days. I even had the opportunity to alpha test Ultima Online and continuedbto follow the genre until current, GW2, which I believe is my home, since this game has it all and in a tasteful manner.

Lets move on to my citation now that you understand my passion for this venue.

Last night, doing a Tequatl event, which I do every night on Tarnished Coast, 95% of the time as Turret 4, from east to west or as Tarnished Coast have heard me say many times LLTN4 or Ludicrisp Lucky Turret Number 4. We were on the final stretch with 2 minutes and change remaining, I believe I got credit for all 3 phases of Defend the Laser phase. We had that dragon to 1 or 2%, easily and more then enough time to take him out and with all 6 turrets blasting. And what happens, an Arena Net Error, I then rush to get back, and poofed to overflow, I click my team mates and it poofs me back to main. But whats this, just as I suspect, no nothing for my time and effort, which has happenednto me before 2 other times. And then, I go and report it, realizing you have no traditional CSR in game, I go to killing leftover risen, but slowly my attitude shifts from a positive gaming experience to now a frustrated irritated gamer. So I think for 30 seconds while telling my guildies my misfortune, and then calm down, kill another risen, reach to take a drink right next to my keyboard (which I recommend against, lol) and get nooted to character select sceeen, I was like really? Really?. It was definately not a good night for me on the game.

But see, thats were I believe lies a problem. Arent games designed to challenge and entertain, so I guess alot of people like to feel robbed, I am not one of them. So if this is truly the direction Guild Wars 2 will continue, then my choice becomes very simple.

Go back to the drawing board for a hobby. And seriously, it does hurt, because I have paid alot in real cash for gems in the game, and I get to eat this investment ifnthat be the case.

I truly hope you guys can get back on board with us players, and what I mean by that is, I wouldnt currently tell my family or friends to check it out, in fear of backlash to myself. However, things could change over the course of the next few months to bring my passion back to you guys.

Thanks for reading and I look forward for Guild Wars 2 and the better times to come

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Ranger balance is certainly something we discuss. I don’t want to derail the thread by going into more details, suffice to say we are aware of the perception and concerns and this is certainly an area we will discuss as we move forward. The plan for Collaborative Development moving forward will allow you to discuss your concerns with the developers and brain storm idea etc.

I don’t want either which is why I keep this short, but most problem rangers face can be boiled down to your choice of making the pet an unmovable, integral part of the profession. You made pets the rangers adrenaline or initiative where they should have been a ranger’s stances or even “Steal”; highly desirable to take but not needed.
As a result, the rangers coefficients have to suffer and he has to rely on an AI without an opt-out.
You should have taken a clue from GW1 rangers, and I’m not only referring to their job as rupters. They offered a unique, skill-based midliner gameplay. Every arrow they fired mattered.
If you wanted to keep the “beastmaster” theme just make more attacks like Hunter’s Call or Feeding Frenzy that summon some animals for a short period. (Of course real pets would remain, as choice. Don’t worry, rangers are still distinct enough!)

Talking about midliners, maybe you should make the front/mid/backline distinction a pillar of class design, without returning to the trinity ofc. Clearly Ranger and Engineer (and non-single target gank thieves) are quite lost as to their job in both PvP and PvE (highly undesirable in WvW/PvE, Engi isn’t much played in sPvP either, and thieves are rather pigeonholed in sPvP/WvW). They just have nothing they excel at. Everything they do heavies and casters do better.

Here might be a suggestion that can help with design issues, sort of an ongoing beta test.

As an example, over at Egosoft I’m a level 3 user. Means I have access to more dev related material and such on forums.

Why not do that here? Have people sign up (or some “qualification” process) with the expectation that they will be giving QUALITY feedback that is well written and concise. Too often on forums, everyone thinks they’re an expert, or claim to be game designers with hundreds of years of experience, etc.

And only allow those who’ve qualified to post in the official collaborative threads. That keeps those kinds of threads from bloating with meaningless OT posts, people complaining about such and such game feature, whining about nerfs to their pet class or buffs to other classes and more. And it cuts down on the need for moderators to slice and dice a thread, which further cuts down on the conspiracy theory posts of “ANet hates its players.”

So in effect, these players with special status become the general playerbase’s representatives to ANet. Heck, maybe even give those players a special color on their nameplates in game, that is, if they’re willing to be inundated by player whispers while doing Frostgorge Champ runs lol. But the end result is you’d have a selection of players who can act as a SOTG team that is constantly giving feedback that is constructive and current, and represents the overall community’s opinions without the hyper concentrated views on game forums.

Kaleban.9834:

Here might be a suggestion that can help with design issues, sort of an ongoing beta test.

As an example, over at Egosoft I’m a level 3 user. Means I have access to more dev related material and such on forums.

Why not do that here? Have people sign up (or some “qualification” process) with the expectation that they will be giving QUALITY feedback that is well written and concise. Too often on forums, everyone thinks they’re an expert, or claim to be game designers with hundreds of years of experience, etc.

And only allow those who’ve qualified to post in the official collaborative threads. That keeps those kinds of threads from bloating with meaningless OT posts, people complaining about such and such game feature, whining about nerfs to their pet class or buffs to other classes and more. And it cuts down on the need for moderators to slice and dice a thread, which further cuts down on the conspiracy theory posts of “ANet hates its players.”

So in effect, these players with special status become the general playerbase’s representatives to ANet. Heck, maybe even give those players a special color on their nameplates in game, that is, if they’re willing to be inundated by player whispers while doing Frostgorge Champ runs lol. But the end result is you’d have a selection of players who can act as a SOTG team that is constantly giving feedback that is constructive and current, and represents the overall community’s opinions without the hyper concentrated views on game forums.

I kinda like that idea, how about having forums posters answer some multiple choice questions made up by the devs to see who is able to post on said forums. It would make it easier on the mods and keep them free of trolls. Doubt it would happen though. Nice idea though.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi,

As detailed in the thread the point of this initiative is to get us back to a more constructive dialog. We have been super super busy all this year and with the help of the community we are trying to create a sustainable process in which we can have constructive discussion and brainstorming around specific areas of the game without hampering the output or quality of the GW2. We hope that this process works out and that we will see 2 way discussion from the community and devs on a daily basis across all the areas of the game.

Chris, I actually think most of the posts on these forums were actually constructive. Yes there were some with anger and trolling but most were constructive. However, a lot of the constructive ones were negative (some extremely negative). And I have noticed they are getting more negative as time goes on. I notice these three topics mostly:

• Promises not being met (real or perceived)
• Things/balance not being fixed or looked at quickly enough. (Some have taken a long time to be fixed or even addressed)
• Expectations of content (temp vs perma; 2-week updates vs. something else)

I personally think, unless those things are addressed and communicated correctly, nothing will change.

Thanks.

You know, as I was talking this stuff over with my guild last night, I was thinking how cool it could be if the guilds could send reps to a GW2 Player Summit or something. But having a thoughtful group of players selected as detailed above would be good as well. I like that.

I don’t like this idea because it’s leaving out quite alot of opinions.

Many people share opinions; focusing the voices down for day to day feedback might help a lot. It doesn’t mean other voices would have no outlet.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Arnath.2319:

The big question still remains, how will these new feedback features and collaboration differ from the feedback that has already been constructively and maturely given over the last year?

The problem has never been poor communication between developers and players, it has been developers not acting upon feedback. Over the last year constructive, mature feedback has been given, developers have responded, developers acknowledge and promise to do something about said feedback, then developers fail to deliver on said promise.

I feel like this thread has achieved nothing.

Hi,

As detailed in the thread the point of this initiative is to get us back to a more constructive dialog. We have been super super busy all this year and with the help of the community we are trying to create a sustainable process in which we can have constructive discussion and brainstorming around specific areas of the game without hampering the output or quality of the GW2. We hope that this process works out and that we will see 2 way discussion from the community and devs on a daily basis across all the areas of the game.

To be clear though the goal of the exercise isn’t to be asked to do something and then we go of and implement it. Many community members have already explained in the thread why this isn’t a good approach. Instead we discuss areas of the game, brainstorm, challenge each other and in so doing, this Collaborative Development process will have a meaningful impact on the game. Much more so than anything we have done together in the past.

I hope this makes sense?

Chris

So even though we can have all of these discussions, on Arenanet’s terms, nothing may actually come of it?

Rama.6439:

Kaleban.9834:

Here might be a suggestion that can help with design issues, sort of an ongoing beta test.

As an example, over at Egosoft I’m a level 3 user. Means I have access to more dev related material and such on forums.

Why not do that here? Have people sign up (or some “qualification” process) with the expectation that they will be giving QUALITY feedback that is well written and concise. Too often on forums, everyone thinks they’re an expert, or claim to be game designers with hundreds of years of experience, etc.

And only allow those who’ve qualified to post in the official collaborative threads. That keeps those kinds of threads from bloating with meaningless OT posts, people complaining about such and such game feature, whining about nerfs to their pet class or buffs to other classes and more. And it cuts down on the need for moderators to slice and dice a thread, which further cuts down on the conspiracy theory posts of “ANet hates its players.”

So in effect, these players with special status become the general playerbase’s representatives to ANet. Heck, maybe even give those players a special color on their nameplates in game, that is, if they’re willing to be inundated by player whispers while doing Frostgorge Champ runs lol. But the end result is you’d have a selection of players who can act as a SOTG team that is constantly giving feedback that is constructive and current, and represents the overall community’s opinions without the hyper concentrated views on game forums.

I kinda like that idea, how about having forums posters answer some multiple choice questions made up by the devs to see who is able to post on said forums. It would make it easier on the mods and keep them free of trolls. Doubt it would happen though. Nice idea though.

No- I really do not like this idea.
The game is for all the players and all should be able to contribute if they wish.

You are essentially asking for class prefects.
A collaborative process is a brainstorm- not a he said- she said.
I certainly don’t want anybody but myself speaking for myself

diamondgirl.6315:

Many people share opinions; focusing the voices down for day to day feedback might help a lot. It doesn’t mean other voices would have no outlet.

Which guilds would you choose then? I mean when someone says in a convo that he/she is talking for guild xyz I find it ok, but what is with people without guild, what is with small guilds? What criteria would you choose to allow someone to take part in a discurs? I also don’t find it a good idea only to choose people who can write good feedbacks or answer mulitple choice questions pretty well, because it doesn’t necessarly mean that this person is objective. How do you want to make sure that the selection of people doesn’t already predeterminate the outcome of the discussion?

To be honest

I played an MMO where each patch had a survey to fill out. With a box for being descriptive. It was a simple multiple choice form.

I believe that was a great system, because the majority could voice thier opinion and it showed truer statistics to what majority of players wanted.

A panel of players and direct forum collaboration only speaks for the 10% of the playerbase typical, the fanatics as I call them, myself included.

Watching to see what and how players react silently is great for bug fixes and hashing out exploits, but doesnt share their feelings of the system.

Also, there should be a level of negative criticism that should be considered. It can be hard for people to word their opinions in constructive foremat in text that gets to the bottom of the issue. This could easily be set up with a proper format to state the key elements of whats the problem, where does the problem take place, when does it take place, why do you feel it took place, how do you feel it could be better.

If you made a form that asked questions like above, people tend to be more receptive in trying to give their feelings and it also helps in the developer in understanding whats truly the root of the problem so they can deliberate on whether to undertake a task at changing it to better facitate the playerbase.

I haven’t said much in this thread, but I have been reading it. And there is something that needs to be brought up, I think. BTW, this is a PvE-focused post. For a variety of reasons, I don’t PvP much.

Not everyone is massively unhappy, and ANet needs to be concerned with hundreds of thousands or millions of players who aren’t on these forums. And some of those folk, probably a lot of them, are content and even happy with their current status.

I do have gripes, most of which other people have articulated.

But I’m also quite happy with my ranger. Really. I find her enjoyable to play, and have few problems with her pet. I run an atypical 0/30/0/10/30 build, wear all exotics + a few ascended items, and use LB or GS most of the time. I play as a symbiot with my frost drake and enjoy most PvE, from Tequatl to dredge farming (hate the moles). Generally, I play all areas of PvE except dungeons (too hard to find a beginner group, even with LFG) and jumping puzzles (I’m a klutz).

I should also point out that I’m partially paralyzed (left hand is still wonky, but getting better) after an accident in January. I wish temporary content was persistent, but it’s not a major issue.

Why detail all that? Because, in general, I’m HAPPY with GW.

Doesn’t mean I don’t have gripes.

But it’s a pretty kitten ed nice game, and as someone who has been a pro game dev, I appreciate the challenges ANET faces.

The game is a complex system. It will never be balanced, though balance can be improved.

I’d like to see bigger, permanent changes to the world, driven by player actions. I want to feel as if my characters have an affect on their world, and not just thru silly elections. We’ve killed Zhaitan — do something interesting with Orr.

Add a few new zones, and NOT ones like Southsun.

Change old zones, to reflect the spirit of the manifesto.

Make the “Living World” live.

I have a concern about the collaborative process. At the moment, enthusiasm is high and I’m seeing posters who have been very negative recently making more optimistic statements — cautiously optimistic, but optimistic. However, if changes don’t occur, or if changes are limited only to minor areas, this optimism will quickly change to pessimism again.

That said, it might be helpful to know what sorts of things are going to be considered. As an example, take one of the hot topics, Ascended items. Some posters see the Ascended initiative to be a reversal of one of the pre-launch game’s fundamental design directions. Others are fine with the change in direction, but don’t like some of the nuts and bolts of how it was implemented. Changing some of the nuts and bolts would be change on a micro level. Changing the direction of the game with regard to this gear would be change on a macro level.

I know it’s not possible to say what types of change the collaboration process might cause — after all, it’s in its infancy. However, it might help to know that macro-level changes aren’t off the table if there is an overwhelming desire for same.

As someone who loved the game at launch, but who has felt alienated by changes in direction, I’d rather know now that macro-level changes are off-limits than find out later. I’ve no idea how many others might like to know this, but I suspect there are more than a few of us.

Being somebody who fequents the dungeon forums, and specifically enjoys dungeons the most, I feel like this is just a lie.

There has been absolutely NO communication in those forums. The one developer that actually was interested, is gone. Everybody was eaten up by living world, and here I am not giving a crap about content that will be gone in a couple of weeks. Too many promises broken, too many excuses made. I still enjoy the game, but I’m tired of these broken promises.

RIP in peace Robert.

Chuo.4238:

The problem with an ingame polling system is that it wouldn’t reach people like me who don’t log in any more. So you’ll never find out why they left.

You’ve got everyone’s email addresses – why not send out surveys to those, like CCP does?

If you knew in game polling was taking place, would you come back to give your opinion?