I think what a lot of people are saying, is that these problems have arisen due to an ill conceived system, created as an ill conceived solution.
Lets think back to the facts:
DR was created so people can’t speedrun dungeons.
Dungeons were spedrun via exploits.Look at the above two statements and tell me, shouldn’t they have just fixed the exploit in the first place? Bugs aside from the DR system, it actually opens a can of worms where some players are running the dungeon just under the 30 minute mark, because they are efficient, and getting penalized for it.
of course they’re fixing the exploits. but they’re also aware that they need a safety net for exploits people haven’t found yet or that could potentially crop up in the future.
though i think it’s also a way of strongly discouraging/combating the MMO-induced farming mentality, treating the game like a job and not a game. if you’re doing speed-runs for rewards and not because they’re inherently fun for you (wasn’t competitive dungeon speed-running a thing in GW1 for a while? never played it myself), you’re playing it not the way it was intended to be played. stop playing the game if all you care about is the reward at the end. or deal with DR.
i still think week-long raid-lockouts are way more restrictive than this.
This goes completely 180 from their design manifesto about playing the game the way you want to play it. But ok, maybe thats ‘subjective’. The 30 minute mark is also the problem. Are they saying they’ve balanced the dungeons to a point they are sure will take more than 30 minutes? Why are some people breaking that time? Shouldn’t they set the time to something clearly out of reach for players who aren’t exploiting? Bit of a numbers problem here on their part I think.
If people aren’t supposed to worry about the rewards, at all, lets just get rid of them, altogether. Lets go back to their first iteration of dungeon rewards, where they thought their dungeons would be SO fun, that anyone would want to run them 40 times to get a set of armor.
though i think it’s also a way of strongly discouraging/combating the MMO-induced farming mentality, treating the game like a job and not a game. if you’re doing speed-runs for rewards and not because they’re inherently fun for you (wasn’t competitive dungeon speed-running a thing in GW1 for a while? never played it myself), you’re playing it not the way it was intended to be played. stop playing the game if all you care about is the reward at the end. or deal with DR.
wat? so the message is “play as you like but not too much because what’s fun for you is not how we perceive fun?”
fact is there ARE people that like to run dungeons. and there are people who don’t like to run dungeons but want the armor/weapon/whatever. so they either want to play as much as possible in dungeons or spend as less time as possible to get their rewards.
and sorry, if you want to combat the farm/grind mentality then you don’t put in a “farm dungeons X number of times for your reward” system in the game. that’s not how it works. ESPECIALLY if it’s the only way to progress.
The beautiful thing about this game is that you aren’t paying a subscription. Most of the content I want to play on my higher leveled characters is bugged? Well, I can either play lower level characters and work on bringing them up or play another game or not play any games at all. It’s beautiful. ANet doesn’t lose any money by me not playing, I’m not wasting money by not playing…not wasting time playing something that’s broken.
I’m not really sure what some of you people want. Do you want ANet to reveal something about their internal code repository that explains why they aren’t able to rollback just the DR system? Or the nature of the DR system itself (hint: it’s probably not in just one thing they branched off…given the suspected nature of it, it should be more work than it’s worth to rollback)? Do you want them to tell you the exact time it takes for the DR to kick in (when it’s working) rather than a very broad less than 30 minutes? Because, you know, 29 minutes is less than thirty minutes, as is 28 minutes as is […] 1 minute. If I had to guess, they have a pretty fair/good idea of how long each branch should take. Do you think their goal is to inconvenience you? Make you mad?
No, in fact, that goal has already been stated as ‘stemming unfairness until we can eliminate the (current) possibilities of it’. Is it a band-aid? Yes. Is it designed to hurt the average player? No. Do they -want- it to hurt even the fringe player? No, not that they’ve said. They just can’t give you the exact times and probably couldn’t even say, if somebody posted a 20 minute run for a certain branch, that that’s legit and they wouldn’t kick on DR. Why? Because then the exploiters know they can just tune that branch back to <20 minutes rather than the <30 they are now forced to do (obviously they can still self-experiment that <30 time down themselves if they’re willing, and ANet should know this, but forcing them to find the sweet spot for -every- branch from <30 is purposefully harsher than <20).
Plain and simple this system is a safety net for stopping crazy farming when people find exploits that make each run super fast. We are also addressing those loopholes, but that takes time and new ones might always be discovered. If you and your group do the dungeons without skipping large sections and run different chains this system shoul(bugs aside) never impact you.
Addendum for clarity, super fast means < 30 minutes, and even then you must hit that speed multiple times in a row before you start seeing any impact.
Thanks for the reply Jon, and thanks for giving a time. However, my group just did a legit maggs run and a legit AC path 2 run in 25 minutes each. Of course with the bug we all got different rewards but i will post that in the proper forum with times.
They were not death free runs and we didn’t feel like we did them as fast as we could have, so when we bring our “A” game we will basically be waiting in front of the last boss room for 10 minutes to make sure we get full rewards….not fun. But, I guess if the system starts to work like you hope and it takes multiple sub 30 minute runs in a row we should be fine.
I will also be posting links to the 2 runs we just did(as soon as they are uploaded) to prove we did them legit.
Thanks and i hope a fix is on its way soon.
k maybe i’m figuring out a bit the dungeon rate system:
from when the dungeon begins, a counter starts.
So, the timing will receive a “rate”.
For example: the player runs TA explorable path 1, total time 10 minutes.
This kind of run will get “10 stars”. This rate will flag the character, so repeating the run again, will receive a lower reward. In a grand total.
So doing AC completing it after 10 minutes, will affect your next (even regular) TA run. You’re still flagged “10 stars” so from TA you will receive 45/less tokens. More high is the “rate” muh less you will receive.
Now, considering the patch is new so we should not have a hystory, this can sound strange.
Still, what you did before the patch, is on a registry. And the character XYZ made AC last time completing it after 10 minutes, before the rating was active. This run you made will flag your char ( now DA is active) as a “10 star”, so every dungeon you will run, even for the first time, will get lower rewards than other players.
Now, how to explain multiple 60 tokens ? An exploit. Like logoff login, leave the party and regroup, or change the dungeon leader in rotation. It’s an example of how this exploit could work, but fit. Or just the run was on regular time, as expected. So it’s rated “1 star”, allowing the player to get again 60 tokens till the cap of 180 tokens per day ( the famous 180 tokens/day on patch note).
Shortly, the rating is based on your overall dungeon performance. More fast you play and complete a dungeon, much more the diminished reward will trigger.
Take it as a personal view, but seems a good theory (hoping i was clear)
A tip (assuming i was right): kill every single mob in front of you, don’t skip nothing , running to make things faster / less hard.
(edited by Lucas Ashrock.8675)
Plain and simple this system is a safety net for stopping crazy farming when people find exploits that make each run super fast. We are also addressing those loopholes, but that takes time and new ones might always be discovered. If you and your group do the dungeons without skipping large sections and run different chains this system shoul(bugs aside) never impact you.
Addendum for clarity, super fast means < 30 minutes, and even then you must hit that speed multiple times in a row before you start seeing any impact.
Thanks for the reply Jon, and thanks for giving a time. However, my group just did a legit maggs run and a legit AC path 2 run in 25 minutes each. Of course with the bug we all got different rewards but i will post that in the proper forum with times.
They were not death free runs and we didn’t feel like we did them as fast as we could have, so when we bring our “A” game we will basically be waiting in front of the last boss room for 10 minutes to make sure we get full rewards….not fun. But, I guess if the system starts to work like you hope and it takes multiple sub 30 minute runs in a row we should be fine.
I will also be posting links to the 2 runs we just did(as soon as they are uploaded) to prove we did them legit.
Thanks and i hope a fix is on its way soon.
THIS. Very much this. This is why I am annoyed at the 30 minute throw away number. I am not confident in the development team to have all dungeon explorable paths balanced to this timer. I even recall Arenanet admitting some of the content in the game was too hard for their own development team to complete, during launch.
Well hold on here.
Nobody actually knows the amount of DR the system currently puts on the players. There is a bug at the moment which is screwing things up, so before you all start going in to a rant, lets just wait for the bug fix first?
Correct. People can speculate about the timing involved and how it works – we will not be divulging this information since it opens the system up to people finding ways around it. While we are confident in the system, we are doubly confident that people are amazing at finding holes in systems and breaking them.
The system is currently bugged, and is treating people unfairly. We’re actively working on it.
Why not turn it off until you get it fixed? What’s better? Prevent a few people from spamming dungeons for tokens and make your everyone else that the system is broken and they are getting no where near the tokens they should be? Or allow the few who spam dungeons to run them quickly and not have most of your players upset at the broken system.
By the way I know there’s a post somewhere gathering data on this but I couldn’t find it when I searched again. So here is some information for your team.
I have been to CoE maybe 4-5 times in the past few days usually takes 1hour to clear. Always run the Teleporter path because the other two are way harder.
I ran Crucible of Eternity today around 7:30 EST (Teleporter) and it took over 1 hour.
I got 60 Tokens as well as most of my party. I think one person got 45. This was my 1st dungeon today.
I ran Crucible of Eternity again (Teleporter) at 9:30 EST and it took us until 11:37 or later (last time I remember looking at the clock.) And I got 15 tokens !!! Two in my group got 60 because they had never been to CoE ever. One in my group got 45 tokens and he has already done CoE and gotten 45 earlier today.
So not only is the code broken it is broken such that if you’re lucky you get max reward over and over no matter how many times you run it. If you’re unlucky you get almost nothing even if it’s your first run of the day. This is why I think it should be taken out until it’s fixed. OR everyone will hate me for saying this but turn off ALL dungeons, don’t let anyone even enter them until it’s fixed.
While I’m on my rant we also need a different method for this anti-farm code. A lot of people want to get a legendary but can’t because of the code. We are willing to invest the effort and work but not if the system is specifically designed to be against us.
— As a side note: I really do love the game and enjoy playing it. You guys have done a lot “Right”—
The token grind system put in is to blame for this, if you guys would have made each boss hard and mechanically sound and gave a piece of dungeon gear or a hand, feet, leg ect. token for beating a hard boss not only would it kill the repetitive grinding but it would give some excitement after each boss kill and a good reward for a tough fight, not just speed run dungeon get tokebn repeat. And if each boss only dropped certain things people would be inclinded to see all the dungeon if they wanted all the gear. problem solved
this turned into a wall of text, i’m sorry. TL,DR: efficiency is not exploitation, the DR ‘solution’ logically makes little sense, speed-clearing should be spun into a challenge mission type feature with increased dungeon difficulty
im really surprised by how anet have decided to handle this “problem” & slightly disappointed by the route they chose to take. being from the “high end speed clear” community that gw1 players created for themselves, i’m confused as to why yall (anet) aren’t embracing this “style” of play. “record runs” were the lifeblood of many players; the reason they logged in and went to the “endgame” areas was for a low time upon completion, with the chest rewards as an after-thought.
instead it appears you’re backing yourselves into a lose-lose situation: you are punishing proficient players (going against the whole revolution/freedom/manifesto thing) and at the same time angering a portion of the player-base with buggy band-aids. all because of, as stated above, an ill-conceived system created as an ill-conceived solution, no matter how good the intent.
i’m not sure why ya’ll decided to go with this system…yes, ‘exploits’ are bad and need to be fixed. however, you cannot equate efficiency with exploitation.
for instance, in gw1, skilled players were able to clear the Underworld in 7 mins, Fissure of Woe in 7 mins, Domain of Anguish in 17 mins, and ALL other elite areas (INCLUDING dungeons) in ridiculously low times (source: http://gwscr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3). Even though the end chests weren’t as important as the holding the “world record” time, the loot was never (to my knowledge) negatively manipulated by anet…instead the dungeon/area difficulty & mob/player skills were tweaked. from my point of view it should be MUCH easier to increase dungeon difficulty and/or tweak simple mechanics/objectives (ie magg ai) than implementing some semi-draconian set of undocumented, unpublished, semi-untested rules.
but, sadly, i digress (and apply ‘this isnt guildwars1 buddy’ here). the logic behind this also confuses me… so you want to create a ‘safety net’ to stop exploits…great, but being legitimately efficient at your content is not exploiting. if it is, the problem is in your content and the content should be corrected. you want to slow the speed at which players acquire tokens so the armor skins are “elite”…simple, make the dungeons harder justifying the “elite-ness” factor. 30 minutes per dungeon rule…is a poor benchmark as people are already hitting well underneath this (unless you plan on increasing difficulty). you want to artificially reduce the “grind”/farming that people have to go through to attain the tokens…sounds great, but changing the pattern from farm1 dungeon over and over to rotate between farming 2 dungeon paths doesn’t actually reduce the grind or farming. you want to keep the economy in check…a noble gesture but there is already a huge wealth gap between the market-savvy, the early karma ‘exploiter’, and the normal player. even so, reduce silver and/or experience for running any path twice (should be easy to tag a char like this, will integrate seamlessly with achievements) but leave tokens alone. win/win.
it’s really quite silly and disheartening to read all the backlash and see ya’ll struggle to post convincing arguments for an elaborate, overbearing DR system. i personally don’t care much for dungeons at the moment, nor do i care for skins in general, so the outcome of this debacle doesn’t affect me much at all. i just honestly feel that ya’ll are missing a huge opportunity to spin this into a beloved feature rather than a restrictive rule-set (/wiki gw1 challenge missions, recording top times by guild).
oh, and if you are deadset on a daily reset model, please please please make it obvious when the reset time actually is and please please please announce that there actually IS a reset time. i had no clue this was actually in game until i read one of robert’s replies in the dev tracker so im sure a ton of normal players are in the dark.
as an aside, a friend bought mists of pandaria yesterday…i saw the box at work and on the inside of the foldout cover it has a small text blurb mentioning ‘racing against other groups to complete dungeons in the fastest times’. i’m paraphrasing but when i read that i was literally taken aback — why was wow, the game with dungeon lockouts, limitations, and timers, implementing (read: evolutionizing) a feature that MY game should have already done?
(edited by coil.3420)
Yea dude obviously if you are too good and clear a dungeon really fast that is called an exploit. Exploiters must be punished, no matter how vague or missappropriately Anet defines.
You exploiters you know who you are!
Nope, the system is broken, as confirmed by the dev.
Wait a fix, you’re wasting time.
as an aside, a friend bought mists of pandaria yesterday…i saw the box at work and on the inside of the foldout cover it has a small text blurb mentioning ‘racing against other groups to complete dungeons in the fastest times’. i’m paraphrasing but when i read that i was literally taken aback — why was wow, the game with dungeon lockouts, limitations, and timers, implementing (read: evolutionizing) a feature that MY game should have already done?
well, because this time blizz actually improved a concept where anet decided to use the 2007 version. everybody gets the same gear, so it’s all about speedruns with the most effective composition, rewards are only transmogs.
Oh they did it on purpose then changed their mind once the backlash came. They had one red admit as much.
Remember everyone, please keep this civil and don’t start with the name calling. We need to be heard in a proper manner. And there are a lot of GREAT posts from the community on how we feel about this! Thank you!
I appreciate Robert Hrouda and Jon Peters for taking the time to explain the system a little more and to let us know that things are still not working as they should be. Most of the MMO’s i have played I would have never got a response like this.
And as Robert Hrounda said:
The system is currently bugged, and is treating people unfairly. We’re actively working on it.
So till they DO fix it, I will be optimistic to see what happens and hope they keep listening to us and compromising to what we the players want and what ArenaNet wants.
But until then I will not be going into any dungeons until this is all ironed out. They are not worth my time and my silver and can be very frustrating due to the bugs and the diminished return system not working correctly.
(Since the patch this week, I have only ran TA and got 15 badges in an 1 hour run, that was pretty disappointing.)
I have been running dungeons a lot since the patch came out to test DR system.
Here is my take on it:
Did 3 path of HOTW:
1st path 30-35 mins: 4 players got 60 tokens, 1 player got 45
2nd path 35-40 mins: 1 player got 60 tokens, 3 players got 45 tokens, 1 player got 30 tokens
3rd path 35-40 mins: 1 player got 60 tokens, 3 players got 30 tokens, 1 player got 15 tokens
Did 1 path of Crucible:
1st path 30 mins: 1 player got 60 tokens, 4 players got 30 tokens
Then we redo 1st path Crucible 30 mins: 4 players got 20 tokens, 1 player got 5 tokens.
This pattern pretty much repeat itself every reset. Only one player get properly rewarded. Other players got the shaft, some even got 5 tokens at some point.
The DR system isn’t working because right now you are limited to like 3-4 runs a day after than the system gives you like 1-15 tokens every run doesn’t matter which dungeons, which path you take whether you already did that path that day or not. Before the DR system at least you get 20 tokens consistently.
You guys (Anet) still didn’t learnt from other (in most case 98% fail) MMOs?
Once you done damage to players, it’s done forever. You can offer all dungeon armor/weapons for free later, but check twice IF there will be someone to wear it.
No king rules forever…
Honestly… I really hate the idea of a DR system for speed runs. I think it’s a terrible idea. Please reconsider it. Thank you.
@ Robert:
don’t you think that a better solution might be making dungeons “naturally” impossible to complete in 10 (ten. TEN.) minutes, repeatedly? Seriously, make more interesting, more difficult dungeons. But you have to change your understanding of “difficult” – it should not be random, zerg encounters, one shotting mobs, infinite mob HP pools etc.
Make more complex, more interesting mechanics which requires synchronized play. And don’t tell me that it does at the moment, been clearing TA exp with my guild and pugs alike for days, no one does anything special other that randomly using skills when off cool-down.
I guess you CAN simulate sync-play but in reality, you really don’t have to.
Make dungeons so that they require at least an hour to complete, and MONTHS to “crack” and master. You are doing it wrong at the moment.
A-NET good job guys, I know you guys are constantly working on the game. DR system has worked fine for me, no bugs and full rewards until now. This will also keep the economy healthier, giving more value to in-game gold, which means you have done this at the expense of reducing your income through gems. I know a lot of people don’t see this but I did, and I think you guys are awesome for it.
Good that you are punishing people using exploits.
Good that you have reduced the total play time to get a full set by increasing the rewards for completing a dungeon. Now it feels like it will be a lot less of a grind to get.
Good that you are making people experience the whole game. I love it, and I know there are many others who also love it.
See you in-game!
A-NET good job guys, I know you guys are constantly working on the game. DR system has worked fine for me, no bugs and full rewards until now. This will also keep the economy healthier, giving more value to in-game gold, which means you have done this at the expense of reducing your income through gems. I know a lot of people don’t see this but I did, and I think you guys are awesome for it.
Good that you are punishing people using exploits.
Good that you have reduced the total play time to get a full set by increasing the rewards for completing a dungeon. Now it feels like it will be a lot less of a grind to get.
Good that you are making people experience the whole game. I love it, and I know there are many others who also love it.
See you in-game!
Why don’t we just receive full sets of armor after completing the story mode just once, and we do the dungeons after that for “fun”? That would make the armor sets so unique and epic – seeing every guy running around in the same set like you do, knowing it took little to no effort to get it.
Hooray, customization. Not. Really? What’s the point of introducing REWARDS if they don’t feel like rewards, and anyone can get them in no time?
Logic missing here.
Don’t normally say much negative about this game but yeah… DR is dumb and people should be reworded more not less. at most each pice of gear should take like 2 or 3 runs…. at most.
the harder and longer dungeon the more you get. or something. this systom will not get people back for Expacts
Don’t normally say much negative about this game but yeah… DR is dumb and people should be reworded more not less. at most each pice of gear should take like 2 or 3 runs…. at most.
the harder and longer dungeon the more you get. or something. this systom will not get people back for Expacts
You can get a piece of the set after 3 runs….only shoulders, chest and leggins take more than 3 runs
A-NET good job guys, I know you guys are constantly working on the game. DR system has worked fine for me, no bugs and full rewards until now. This will also keep the economy healthier, giving more value to in-game gold, which means you have done this at the expense of reducing your income through gems. I know a lot of people don’t see this but I did, and I think you guys are awesome for it.
Good that you are punishing people using exploits.
Good that you have reduced the total play time to get a full set by increasing the rewards for completing a dungeon. Now it feels like it will be a lot less of a grind to get.
Good that you are making people experience the whole game. I love it, and I know there are many others who also love it.
See you in-game!
Why don’t we just receive full sets of armor after completing the story mode just once, and we do the dungeons after that for “fun”? That would make the armor sets so unique and epic – seeing every guy running around in the same set like you do, knowing it took little to no effort to get it.
Hooray, customization. Not. Really? What’s the point of introducing REWARDS if they don’t feel like rewards, and anyone can get them in no time?
Logic missing here.
People got full armor sets in 2 or 3 days of constant grinding. Now you can do the same or just do it in one week just not constant grinding. They found a way to reduce the grind…you will still need time to get the set and it will still feel like a reward, at least to me.
Keeping all the people happy is impossible, you make people work to get a set and they call the game grindy, they increase the rewards and others come to say that the rewards are too easy to get…
With the latest patch you can do either. So if you want and like to grind you can do it (but you better get ready to finish the dungeon properly) and if you don’t want to grind dungeons all day, then you just take the daily rewards and take it easy. Everyone should be happy but they always find a way to complain.
(edited by aleiro.8521)
Farmers, exploiters, anyone who make positive monetary gain. = Exploiters. Learn to play,,the Anet way,.
@Robert
Why penalize people who have become skilled at the game and can clear the dungeon to it’s completion? If they are capable of getting the gear quickly, provided they didn’t exploit, they should be allowed to.
They learned your game and played it well. Don’t penalize them.
If I have a weekend set aside with 5 of my friends who all play very well and I want to grind out the whole set, why are you stopping me? What is the point of putting an artificial time limit on how quickly I should obtain the gear?
(edited by Zagdul.1502)
Farmers, exploiters, anyone who make positive monetary gain. = Exploiters. Learn to play,,the Anet way,.
Did you mean we paid money to learn how to enjoy the bugged system that is not working on ANet Way even though it created by ANet?
A bit of misinformation I am seeing in the threads is that if you complete a single dungeon in ten minutes, we’re going to punish you for it, as though we are punishing you for being “too good” at it. This is not true.
Based on your very next paragraph, this is 100% true.
Our DR system combats repeated runs, and has a global presence as well effecting other dungeons. So if you run multiple 10 minute dungeons, back to back then you are going to get hit with the DR system no matter which paths you choose.
However the notion that your group will be punished for clearing any single dungeon in any amount of time is incorrect. Running through multiple speed clears back to back will result in the DR system influencing your rewards.
This is perhaps one of the stupidest systems (the Diminishing Returns system) I think I have ever seen implemented in an MMO.
If your aim was to make players feel like they are being punished for “playing how they want” and “being too good for the content”, then you guys have succeeded.
If your aim was anything otherwise, you have completely failed with these DR systems.
He said that you can be fast, but only be fast in one dungeon within a certain period of time. If I want to do all 3 paths of a dungeon; assuming I’m good at them I’ll be punished if I do the other two paths too quickly after the first path?
If I interpreted that correctly; that is beyond pathetic.
You have concerns and questions, which is why I am answering them to the best of my ability without divulging the full mechanics of our DR system.
To answer your most recent question, No, you would not honestly get punished with our DR system for that. Hitting the same path 2-3 times in rapid succession would result in DR influence, but hitting different paths quickly won’t initially draw the influence of the DR system. That being said, there is a limit to the amount of paths you can run in a period of time before global DR kicks in.
If a player runs every single path in every dungeon once, and only once, and exploit/bug-free, but back to back, then DR should absolutely never kick in.
Ever.
No matter how good they are (good in this case will = fast clears).
Your system absolutely punishes players who are good at doing the content, as intended, you have released.
No matter what you guys think you are combatting, you ARE combatting fun and freedom and skill.
Especially for players who’s primary joy of playing is running dungeons.
You guys are saying “hey, go do something else for an unknown length of time that you don’t enjoy as much as running dungeons” to those players.
The more I read from you guys about DR, the more baffling your thought process is to me.
This entire system feels very Blizzardy (that’s NOT a good thing) – where you guys decide what we should do, and for how long, even though you have offered a game full options.
Our group did AC yesterday where 3 ppl got 60 tokens, 1 got 45 and one got 15. Judging from your posts you are aware of this and working on a fix, great.
Bugs aside your saftey net will punish ppl in the long run. The game is one month old and we can already clear all 3 paths in AC in ~30 min each. Imagine a few months from now when ppl are in full exotics and got the dodge timing perfected, and learnt what to chainpull and how all boss mechanics work. I bet you can remove atleast 10 minutes from those timers then.
Some dungeons will require more time, but punishing ppl for being good is bad design.
That aside, when your DR system works as intended maybe we wont notice this, but if it kicks in for us being effective it sucks.
/Kitten
I think people are kind of missing the point. They want to limit the daily amount of token obtained and better encourage people to stop repeating the same fast and easy path.
If they don’t do it this way, they will limit it another way.
When I farmed my set, I was able to consistently get into PUGs that could finish in 20-30 minutes. The people in my groups were usually people who were also farming the dungeon, so everyone knew what to do and how to do it efficiently.
Even when I joined a group of players that were new to the dungeon, and we cleared everything, it ended up taking us about 40 minutes. If that group ran it a few more times, we would be able to do it in 20-30 minutes as well.
It’s not that uncommon, so a system that takes into account the speed at which you clear a dungeon is not ideal. I would rather have lockouts and decent rewards than diminishing returns based on speed.
If a player runs every single path in every dungeon once, and only once, and exploit/bug-free, but back to back, then DR should absolutely never kick in.
Ever.
Bugs aside, this is the only real problem I have here. The cross-dungeon DR is especially stupid because the other 7 dungeons aren’t getting me any closer to a reward for that first dungeon. If I have time after a few dungeon runs to farm some karma, I can do that without penalty, so why isn’t the same thing true if I choose to instead run a -different- dungeon? They’re totally separate reward tracks, why would they even interact like that? That’s like if I managed to legitimately hit the dungeon DR, but when I go to do events that same DR carries over into my event rewards. It makes no sense.
I feel like this whole problem is just people getting spoiled by the big fat first reward. If they just set dungeons to give 5 tokens per run with no DR whatsoever, people would still farm all day, and they wouldn’t kitten about DR because their reward is ALWAYS small (they’d probably kitten about small rewards instead). But suddenly a much larger portion of the population has little hope of ever seeing dungeon gear. That sucks for way more people than this system does.
(edited by Haette.2701)
Is the DR system working right? I did AC em getting 45 tears, then i do CM em and got 30 tokens. Wheres this 60 tokens im suppose to get? 2 of my friends got 60 tokens and we run together all the time, so its not a situation where im getting DR because i did a ninja run behind my friend’s back.
Also i know theres a DR system, but pls explain how the hell it exactly works. If i run different dungeons back to back, i wont be penalized right? But im still getting stupid 30-45 tokens? And sometimes 2 tokens. Running dungeons but on different paths wont warrant DR right? But im still getting 15 tokens. Dont even get me started on the gold reward.
Am i account bugged? Is Anet doing this on purpose? Do you guys hate me and penalize my rewards cos im asian? Because i thought the patch notes already mentioned fixing the bug.
dosnt matter if we run them again and again we are putting in the effort to do it and we expect to be rewarded for it.
yes beating a boss is epic the first time you do it and hell i would be ok not getting much for my first run
but in a game were you are just running a level isnt enough if im not being rewarded for it (I already know i can do it so I don’t get the same reward of self gratification)
its true i didnt play game’s like Mario and Mega man to gain anything other than bragging rights, hell my first time into a Dungeon that’s all im really going in there for. but every time after that i expect to be rewarded in FULL
and what ever happend to anti-grined. I pice of gear each run that would be anti-gined. this haveing to got 400 tokens for 1 peace of gear and only haveing less than half that after 3 runs each giveing 60 is just BS
if you wanted long term should have added somthing like a no way-point mode with only slightly better gear but the same skin or somthing…..
I thought ANet wanted everything to be fun in this game. So why do they think not getting a reward after a hard dungeon is fun? More importantly why are they making decisions?
I’m not a dungeon runner.. have only done 2 dungeons since headstart.. but this really irks me.. I really don’t get why this artifical barrier is needed. Seems a bit like the dungeon lockouts in other MMOs, which I also don’t get.
Good thing I’m not really that interested in doing dungeons all the time.. I just hope some of these weird mechanics don’t get added to WvW… “whoops sorry, you can’t attack this keep, since you attacked it 30 minutes ago!”
Did it ever occur to anyone that instead of implenting this DR system which is buggy at best and makes Legitamate players suffer, that instead you should of maybe implemented a lockout system that locks you out after completing a path?
so for example if i and my group complete path 1 for HotW and then go back into the dungeon to complete another path, path 1 will be completely grayed out/unavailable to me and my group so even if we wanted to repeat we couldnt, this way i could enjoy my 180 tokens a day as promised and then come back tommorow or farm another dungeon for another 180 tokens, etc.
you will have problems when one or more players have completed the route already and the rest of the party has not but i feel this is far better to this DR system, which is treating legitamate players like exploiters because they can complete the content at great speed when they did nothing but play the game as intended.
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This DR system is hands down the dumbist thing ever created for ANY MMO! THe better question is why was this game released with so many freaking problems and exploits.
all the speed runs were because of exploits. i agree with the OP if my group is kitten enough to run an instance in 15min 4 or 5 times in a row why should we not get rewarded for being kitten?
I’m not a dungeon runner.. have only done 2 dungeons since headstart.. but this really irks me.. I really don’t get why this artifical barrier is needed. Seems a bit like the dungeon lockouts in other MMOs, which I also don’t get.
Good thing I’m not really that interested in doing dungeons all the time.. I just hope some of these weird mechanics don’t get added to WvW… “whoops sorry, you can’t attack this keep, since you attacked it 30 minutes ago!”
Not to mention the fact that it used to take people 3 days of speed running to get a full set of the best armor in the game. The fact that the runs were done using exploits.
The amount of money being made by speed running these dungeons was so big that the in game money devaluated to an insane amount. If you check the gem prices of 1 week ago it was 36 gems/10s now it is 25 gems/10s. That means that in game money devaluated about 30%. Regardless that it is fake money, excessive amounts of gold at this point will destroy the economy. Not to mention gold farmers for RMT companies were doing this….etc etc etc. They are keeping the game healthy for the rest of us so stop complaining!
The better question is why was this game released with so many freaking problems and exploits.
What can a million dedicated powergamers and idiots do better than the most dedicated internal testing team?
Find bugs.
What are neither of them ever going to do?
Find all of the bugs.
Guess what takes time to fix?
Oh god, you are still going on about it.
Wait for the bug fix, then see if the DR really does affect you, then complain that you are having trouble grinding gold.
Just a question though, why do you people want to grind these dungeons so much?
The amount of money being made by speed running these dungeons was so big that the in game money devaluated to an insane amount. If you check the gem prices of 1 week ago it was 36 gems/10s now it is 25 gems/10s. That means that in game money devaluated about 30%. Regardless that it is fake money, excessive amounts of gold at this point will destroy the economy. Not to mention gold farmers for RMT companies were doing this….etc etc etc. They are keeping the game healthy for the rest of us so stop complaining!
No my friend, the amounts changed because anet made a stealth change to separate the two exchange rates, they where linked before (gold/gems) which they should be like in real currency pairs (USD/EUR) but to give them more control they disconnected them to make manipulation easier.
If they are connected then it’s dangerous to manipulate them because the amount of gems you get via gold would automatically change the amount of gold you get via gems and vice versa. It would always favour one side and that is not what anet wants.
Now they can freely change either to their liking and that is what we see right now. Not inflation.
The amount of money being made by speed running these dungeons was so big that the in game money devaluated to an insane amount. If you check the gem prices of 1 week ago it was 36 gems/10s now it is 25 gems/10s. That means that in game money devaluated about 30%. Regardless that it is fake money, excessive amounts of gold at this point will destroy the economy. Not to mention gold farmers for RMT companies were doing this….etc etc etc. They are keeping the game healthy for the rest of us so stop complaining!
No my friend, the amounts changed because anet made a stealth change to separate the two exchange rates, they where linked before (gold/gems) which they should be like in real currency pairs (USD/EUR) but to give them more control they disconnected them to make manipulation easier.
If they are connected then it’s dangerous to manipulate them because the amount of gems you get via gold would automatically change the amount of gold you get via gems and vice versa. It would always favour one side and that is not what anet wants.
Now they can freely change either to their liking and that is what we see right now. Not inflation.
I highly doubt your conspiracy theory…I’m far more inclined to think that people farming gold caused the rapid inflation.
the question is ; WHY PUNISH PEOPLE AT ALL FOR BEING GOOD!!!
Ban exploiters yes, but punishing GREAT PLAYERS!!!???
I have NEVER seen this in 15 years of gaming, never.
Honestly, doing a dungeon in 20 minutes instead of 30 doesn’t make you a “great player”
Honestly, doing a dungeon in 20 minutes instead of 30 doesn’t make you a “great player”
Right but going into a dungeon ( without knowing the exact time limit ) saying to poeple “guys take your time” is kitten too
IMO of course
Honestly, doing a dungeon in 20 minutes instead of 30 doesn’t make you a “great player”
Right but going into a dungeon ( without knowing the exact time limit ) saying to poeple “guys take your time” is kitten too
IMO of course
possibly, but really, it’s only 10 minutes (as far as we know, at this point)
People need to stop moaning, stop and think about it. Those of you that play or have played wow have already seen this. In wow you can do raids once a week/ you can do heroics as often as you wont, but there is a cap of how many tokens you can get. Same here, if you run dungeons over and over again in less then 30 mins you’re going to get less because what would be the point in making dungeon armor cost loads of tokens if some people can farm the whole set in one day? It’s progressionm you work towards you’re rewards not expect them all in a day. So when people can run every dungeon in 30 mins or less and they have every dungeon armor set then they start moaning “we need more content i’ve completed all the dungeons hundreds of times now i’m bored” How is it any more fun to speed run a dungeon then take it easy relax and actually have fun and enjoy it
And if speed runing dungeons is your way of having fun then what does it happen if you get 60 rewards for something like 10? If you truely enjoy runing the dungeon super fast for fun then you shouldn’t really care about the rewards, just the fun while you’re doing it.
And if speed runing dungeons is your way of having fun then what does it happen if you get 60 rewards for something like 10? If you truely enjoy runing the dungeon super fast for fun then you shouldn’t really care about the rewards, just the fun while you’re doing it.
Gaming mentality has changed over the past few years. People want rewards for everything. This is the main problem with the DR system.
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