Guild Wars 2

do 6 dungeon chain, not 1 dungeon 3 path chain. iam happy with anet idea.

u do 10 min dungeon? great! u ll have more time for Wvw, or pvp or dynamic events!

Why is any DR system necessary? Everyone is saying that without this system we would have raid lock out timers. Why? If the goal is that we have fun however we would like to (except exploiting) then why is this system here at all? All it is really doing is shining a light on the lack of endgame content that this game has. “Oh no… DR is up I guess… wanna go do some other fun endgame content…. oh wait….. what other endgame content?”

DaedalusDragon.3754:

Why is any DR system necessary? Everyone is saying that without this system we would have raid lock out timers. Why? If the goal is that we have fun however we would like to (except exploiting) then why is this system here at all? All it is really doing is shining a light on the lack of endgame content that this game has. “Oh no… DR is up I guess… wanna go do some other fun endgame content…. oh wait….. what other endgame content?”

This is really what I’d like an answer to. This DR system isn’t something anyone asked for, it’s really not something anyone wants. No one wants to be punished for playing a game a certain way. If people are able to speed clear your dungeons that’s your ownkittenfault, and yet you’re here saying that we’re bad “exploiters” for doing that. If your goal is to use this to stop exploiting, a better solution would be to FIX THE EXPLOITS. If you’re doing this to buy time for you all to fix the exploits…just…stop. You’ve failed. You’ve failed to make this system work and it haskitten off every single person that it’s worked improperly on. For several patches now this system hasn’t even remotely worked and it’s continuing to prove to all you customers that you’re more interested in making sure people can’t efficiently run through your content than you are in making sure that content is fun and hassle-free (read: bug free). Events are still broken, dungeons rewards were terrible and are now broken; there are so many things keeping your players from properly enjoying the game at end-game and yet you still have the audacity to devote even a single hour, a single coder to this useless DR system while people drown your forums in complaints. Just kitten stop. It’s not working, it’ll never make any of the players happy. There will always be complaints, JUSTIFIABLE COMPLAINTS about it. Nothing good has come or will come from this system. Just stop.

Urejt.5648:

do 6 dungeon chain, not 1 dungeon 3 path chain. iam happy with anet idea.

u do 10 min dungeon? great! u ll have more time for Wvw, or pvp or dynamic events!

Why would I run dungeons for gear I don’t want?

VoiceOfUnreason.5976:

Nothing good has come or will come from this system. Just stop.

You neeed my shrugs and a LOL or Anet one?

so hey guys apparently i made a post about how bad the dungeons were and just wanted to see everyone else opinions on the matter about the whole idea of gem stores and every thing. Guess what they locked my thread and gave me an infraction sooo.

does that mean all my fears were corrector they did not even tell me why I got the infraction some friendly services there huh.

basically I quoted what someone said here about the dr system being there and how it could be a ploy for them to force users to use the gem store. Its in this thread some were. So I have to just say wow Anet thank you for proving my point and I really hope that snot how you treat all your game player.

ok so just got an email apparently they said it was inflammatory and doe snot contribute positively to the sub forms. OOOk but its w/e I will just go play wow till Anet fixes the dungeons in this game that my only gripe right now is the dungeons.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Just-to-Clarify-something-on-Map-Chat-and-TOS/first#post275426

ReginaBuenaobra

Secondly, regarding the forums—our moderators do moderate not only for tone, but for constructiveness. For example “+1 or /signed” is not constructive (there is a +1 button, BTW). The moderators will infract people who are providing their feedback in a rude and disrespectful manner. If someone is complaining, but being extremely rude and not constructive, they’re getting an infraction for their tone, not the content. It’s an important distinction. If you all have questions about forum moderation, you can contact the moderators at forums@arena.net.

I honestly believe the developers are making things far more difficult than they need to be .
If you have a time to clear that you believe takes an exploit to accomplish simply Lock the path for that set amount of time once the last boss is dead .

Players will know exactly what that time is on the interface you implement .

most of your issues revolve around stealth reductions and not communicating to the community what the rules of clearing a dungeon or any dynamic event or gathering materials are .
Forget all this nonsense just implement simple lock out timers ,do not try to make this Rocket science please .

As far as drops from repeatedly killing mobs surely extending the spawn timers for players in a small area would be better than the stealth system I would prefer them to stop spawning rather than stop dropping the appropriate crafting materials .

DR and lockouts on loot isn’t next gen,all this talk about making a MMO fun and you put stuff in like this.

In all my years of MMO’s one thing that always killed it for me was lockout’s and that’s really all DR is doing.

We don’t pay a sub so why do we have to put up with this to slow down getting gear?Sub base games do this to keep people paying,so why is this crap in GW2?

If someone wanted to run TA all day for a full set he should be aloud to.

rickets.1386:

JonPeters.5630:

rickets.1386:

JonPeters.5630:

Plain and simple this system is a safety net for stopping crazy farming when people find exploits that make each run super fast. We are also addressing those loopholes, but that takes time and new ones might always be discovered. If you and your group do the dungeons without skipping large sections and run different chains this system shoul(bugs aside) never impact you.

Addendum for clarity, super fast means < 30 minutes, and even then you must hit that speed multiple times in a row before you start seeing any impact.

Thanks for the reply Jon, and thanks for giving a time. However, my group just did a legit maggs run and a legit AC path 2 run in 25 minutes each. Of course with the bug we all got different rewards but i will post that in the proper forum with times.

They were not death free runs and we didn’t feel like we did them as fast as we could have, so when we bring our “A” game we will basically be waiting in front of the last boss room for 10 minutes to make sure we get full rewards….not fun. But, I guess if the system starts to work like you hope and it takes multiple sub 30 minute runs in a row we should be fine.

I will also be posting links to the 2 runs we just did(as soon as they are uploaded) to prove we did them legit.

Thanks and i hope a fix is on its way soon.

Thank you this is excellent info. We would like dungeons to be legit hard enough to take closer to 45 mins but if we can’t accomplish that goal we can look at the speed clear times from non exploiters and easily adjust the system. The goal is that hardcore farmers don’t even see this thing but only exploiters. We will keep working towards that goal.

Jon

Here’s the link to our AC run, obviously the video was sped up. We started the video when you pick your path. PoV of my guardian guildmate.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnXJa0Y0m38
EDIT: Link is not working properly, You have to copy paste.

Also, here is our Token and time results from our runs last night. I will post the first maggs run when its uploaded. 3rd maggs run was the same as the first so no video.

Run 1: CoF: Maggs: Start time: 9:23pm: End time: 9:48pm
Guardian: 60
Warrior: 45
Necro: 45
Mesmer: 45
Ele: 45

Run 2: AC path 2: Start time: 9:59pm: End time: 10:23pm
Guardian: 60
Warrior: 30
Necro: 30
Mesmer: 30
Ele: 30

And just to see what happened we did maggs again.
Run 3: CoF Maggs: Start time: 10:26pm: End time: 10:46pm
Guardian: 20
Warrior: 5
Necro: 5
Mesmer: 5
Ele: 5

I feel the guardian got the correct rewards, and thats it.

Thanks for your continued effort to fix this issue.

And here is the first maggs run we did. I would actually like to hear if your lava run strat is ok. Basically we agro the mobs and run past the fire pools(while putting them out for maggs) and stop right after the last fire pool, kill everything that stays mad at us and then Ele air rez maggs if he dies.

JonPeters.5630:

Thank you this is excellent info. We would like dungeons to be legit hard enough to take closer to 45 mins but if we can’t accomplish that goal we can look at the speed clear times from non exploiters and easily adjust the system. The goal is that hardcore farmers don’t even see this thing but only exploiters. We will keep working towards that goal.

Jon

Your problem is that you think people being efficient is an exploit.

JonPeters.5630:

Thank you this is excellent info. We would like dungeons to be legit hard enough to take closer to 45 mins but if we can’t accomplish that goal we can look at the speed clear times from non exploiters and easily adjust the system. The goal is that hardcore farmers don’t even see this thing but only exploiters. We will keep working towards that goal.

Jon

Forewarning – this is a rant and it’s not directed at Jon Peters specifically. It’s a rant that comes from the focus on the negative consequences for players coming from changes made by the ANet team.

The solution I automatically assume y’all will do is time sinks without challenge. For example, slowing down the rate at which npcs run, placing multiple small gaps of time in between progression triggers, and worst of all (in my opinion) simply increasing the health of enemies so it takes longer to bring them down. Changes such as these do not test skill (or hardly any problem solving ability), they test patience.

This is the opinion of my cynical side, but I feel like with the many changes I’ve seen, the focus of the ANet team has been more on how to slow player progression than create challenges. Fixing exploits I understand; that’s good, so do it. I think everyone in the world understands that more time spent does not mean greater accomplishment. I and many people besides myself have a different view, the more time saved, the more efficiently something can be done, the more rewarding completing a task is.

Additionally the more complicated the challenge the greater the sense of accomplishment that comes with overcoming the challenge. Spending more time than desired, does not add the sense of accomplishment (at least not for me), it adds to the sacrifice of spending that time in other ways. Time consuming does not equal challenging. Do I want to have my cake and eat it too? Yeah, I do. But I want it to be challenging to reach my cake, not incredibly time consuming.

I saw someone on facebook say something in a way that really drove a point home for me… “The [end game gear] seem[s] more like a reward for full time farmers than they do for their (ANet’s) actual players.”

What a way to point out an obvious truth.

— Rant over

I fully understand there is a balance that must be achieved between time and rewards for an MMO to successfully retain players. Obviously ANet is making money off box sales and gem purchases, so one of their primary goals has to be keeping coin out of the economy to create incentive for players to give ANet money on getting coin. You can’t buy to win in this game, but you can certainly buy to horizontally progress. While I don’t like it, it’s what is ultimately going to give us more content via free updates and expansions. So ANet, Whenever NC Soft get’s off your rear about wanting money back from you, please switch your focus from time sinks for the sake of player’s time to a focus of challenges that people sink their time into.

ANet you’re awesome, Jon Peters you’re pretty cool by proxy, thanks for the awesome game.

Much love

Just some more data: Did all 3 paths for CoE today for the first time ever. Prior to this I had done 3 dungeon runs in total in my whole account lifetime spread over the course of 2 weeks I think.

CoE First Run: 60 tokens, as intended
2nd run/2nd path: 45
3rd run/3rd path: 45

So instead of the intended 180 I got 150. And it did take several hours for all three so not a speed run by any means.

I’m still wondering how this forum is managed, with 3 thread of the same topic with people spamming their roulette of tokens, not understanding they are just wasting time with a bugged reward system. And Hrouda invited us to just stop waiting a fix, too.
So fun

They need DR so that if people find a game breaking dungeon exploit that allows them to significantly bypass Dungeon content, it doesn’t result in tanking the entire game economy or devaluing the dungeon armors. This isn’t meant to be a way to slow down players or punish being efficient, but a way to safe guard the broader game against techniques that use game bugs to trivialize content.

Dungeons generate more gold than most other activities in the game, and they want to be able to keep it that way, but that means they need defense against exploits before they happen, not just responses after they happen. This is an attempt to do that, it’s just bugged and needs additional tuning. Give them a little more time.

Making it take longer to reach certain goals is just compensating for lack of content. DR is a form of this notion. I like to continuously run instances which I have got good at, to earn high end gear through simple persistence, patience and experience over a long period of time. I’m no crafter or rare item hunter, and I don’t have friends who play or a dungeon oriented guild who i am well established in. it’s not easy to find those things. So when i get good enough to carry a PuG through one path, i’d like to be able to run it over and over without being screwed over by some lazy mask for exploits rather than fixing them. I don’t exploit, I just want a worthwile amount of tokens at the end so that i can spend 3-4 hours running it over and over again comfortably to get one peice of armour. THAT would not be handing it to me, i’m still putting in time and effort, but that time should be rewarded. Instead, the game tries to cater to people who only do something once then bugger off because they clearly don’t care about it that much, and alot of the defense for DR comes from such people. This is killing it for me. And the dev responses are just vague, oblivious to the problems this system presents. blinded by their faith in its effectivity. it adds insult to injury.

DivineBeing.2086:

Eolirin.1830:

They need DR so that if people find a game breaking dungeon exploit that allows them to significantly bypass Dungeon content, it doesn’t result in tanking the entire game economy or devaluing the dungeon armors. This isn’t meant to be a way to slow down players or punish being efficient, but a way to safe guard the broader game against techniques that use game bugs to trivialize content.

Dungeons generate more gold than most other activities in the game, and they want to be able to keep it that way, but that means they need defense against exploits before they happen, not just responses after they happen. This is an attempt to do that, it’s just bugged and needs additional tuning. Give them a little more time.

Shhh. Don’t point it out again. If these idiots can’t read and understand Anet’s responses than they deserve to be in the dark.

Obviously you’ve got plenty of better things to do in GW2 than run certain dungeons. We are aware of ‘why’ Anet is doing this, but it’s the wrong solution and it only comes with problems. Don’t go calling those of us who are disgruntled by the system “idiots” just because this is no problem for you. Those of us who AREN’T exploiting, and want to spend our time on GW2 running a certain dungeon for an armour set CAN’T do so, because this system encourages one little fling with the dungeon per day. we are then expected to move on, but with my goal being the set in the reward i’d rather stay there and keep working at it. Players like me suffer. I do honest legit runs that take up to 1 hour, never ‘too fast’ to technically fall under this system. I still get only 5 tokens most of the time. if we could atleast get something in the field of 20-30 for each consecutive run, we’d still be busting our chops but it would be worthwhile, and our means to play would be satisfied.

VoiceOfUnreason.5976:

DaedalusDragon.3754:

Why is any DR system necessary? Everyone is saying that without this system we would have raid lock out timers. Why? If the goal is that we have fun however we would like to (except exploiting) then why is this system here at all? All it is really doing is shining a light on the lack of endgame content that this game has. “Oh no… DR is up I guess… wanna go do some other fun endgame content…. oh wait….. what other endgame content?”

This is really what I’d like an answer to. This DR system isn’t something anyone asked for, it’s really not something anyone wants. No one wants to be punished for playing a game a certain way. If people are able to speed clear your dungeons that’s your own kitten fault, and yet you’re here saying that we’re bad “exploiters” for doing that. If your goal is to use this to stop exploiting, a better solution would be to FIX THE EXPLOITS. If you’re doing this to buy time for you all to fix the exploits…just…stop. You’ve failed. You’ve failed to make this system work and it has kitten off every single person that it’s worked improperly on. For several patches now this system hasn’t even remotely worked and it’s continuing to prove to all you customers that you’re more interested in making sure people can’t efficiently run through your content than you are in making sure that content is fun and hassle-free (read: bug free). Events are still broken, dungeons rewards were terrible and are now broken; there are so many things keeping your players from properly enjoying the game at end-game and yet you still have the audacity to devote even a single hour, a single coder to this useless DR system while people drown your forums in complaints. Just kittening stop. It’s not working, it’ll never make any of the players happy. There will always be complaints, JUSTIFIABLE COMPLAINTS about it. Nothing good has come or will come from this system. Just stop.

ahahahah i’ve thinked exact thing…… now my routine is enter 1 time in a day do 1 dungeon and exit… wow good game yes… when i buyed this i did not think this.. anet say (is for occasional player u can do always anything and some bullsh**) now i have game and WON’T do a raid coz is the non fun raids i ever seen… i die alwais 5 time in kite kittening mission in cof and take a lot of time some times and if u have a naab grp and cant do last mission u gettin…mhhh w8… NOTHING! coz chest give the kitteny items kill a mob is more efficiently to farm.. lol and tokens only the first time is good number of 60 but with this DS some time getting 6 15 18… 2… and i dont want to waste my life in this for so few tokens.. i think anet u must fix this ty in advance cya

JonPeters.5630:

Thank you this is excellent info. We would like dungeons to be legit hard enough to take closer to 45 mins but if we can’t accomplish that goal we can look at the speed clear times from non exploiters and easily adjust the system. The goal is that hardcore farmers don’t even see this thing but only exploiters. We will keep working towards that goal.

Jon

If you guys want to make these explore modes legit hard the first things you should do are:

1). Make packs not leash when pulled. This would stop people from simply running past most of the trash in dungeons. You put them there for a reason right?

2). Make bosses leash when pulled outside of their room. So many times I’ve been in parties that just pull the boss away from their rooms. Making them super easy. Spider Egg boss for example.

3). Make all way points contested during a boss fight and re-enable them when the boss is no-longer engaged in combat or dead. This they will never be hard if people can just keep throwing themselves at these things. Would also make revival skills worth equipping.

4). Finally, fully reset bosses if the party wipes, adds and all. A common strat now is to pull the boss, and kill whatever doesn’t leash. AC explore for example.

Those in my opinion would instantly make all the runs harder without actually re-tuning anything. Of course, some dungeons do need adjustments.

Akava Ranveer.6104:

JonPeters.5630:

Thank you this is excellent info. We would like dungeons to be legit hard enough to take closer to 45 mins but if we can’t accomplish that goal we can look at the speed clear times from non exploiters and easily adjust the system. The goal is that hardcore farmers don’t even see this thing but only exploiters. We will keep working towards that goal.

Jon

3). Make all way points contested during a boss fight and re-enable them when the boss is no-longer engaged in combat or dead. This they will never be hard if people can just keep throwing themselves at these things. Would also make revival skills worth equipping.

This one would probably defeat two or three core idea’s behind the dungeons.

Problem: Exploiters taking advantage of glitchy instances
A-net solution: Make it so they can’t be rewarded if they finish quickly or repeat…
Typical player: Huh? but that affects us… what did WE do? it’s between you two.
Exploiter solution: Duh, we’ll just wait out the timer at the end…(like the timers relevant)
A-net solution: Justify the system, blind eye to the disgruntled typical player.
Typical player: Well this sucks. I’m going elsewhere

-down the track if this keeps up-

A-net: please please please stay,we’ll give you free tokens, open more content, make hard things easy and easy things hard.. look! gem discount! get cheap gems! please stay!

Hayden.7920:

DivineBeing.2086:

Eolirin.1830:

They need DR so that if people find a game breaking dungeon exploit that allows them to significantly bypass Dungeon content, it doesn’t result in tanking the entire game economy or devaluing the dungeon armors. This isn’t meant to be a way to slow down players or punish being efficient, but a way to safe guard the broader game against techniques that use game bugs to trivialize content.

Dungeons generate more gold than most other activities in the game, and they want to be able to keep it that way, but that means they need defense against exploits before they happen, not just responses after they happen. This is an attempt to do that, it’s just bugged and needs additional tuning. Give them a little more time.

Shhh. Don’t point it out again. If these idiots can’t read and understand Anet’s responses than they deserve to be in the dark.

Obviously you’ve got plenty of better things to do in GW2 than run certain dungeons. We are aware of ‘why’ Anet is doing this, but it’s the wrong solution and it only comes with problems. Don’t go calling those of us who are disgruntled by the system “idiots” just because this is no problem for you. Those of us who AREN’T exploiting, and want to spend our time on GW2 running a certain dungeon for an armour set CAN’T do so, because this system encourages one little fling with the dungeon per day. we are then expected to move on, but with my goal being the set in the reward i’d rather stay there and keep working at it. Players like me suffer. I do honest legit runs that take up to 1 hour, never ‘too fast’ to technically fall under this system. I still get only 5 tokens most of the time. if we could atleast get something in the field of 20-30 for each consecutive run, we’d still be busting our chops but it would be worthwhile, and our means to play would be satisfied.

The “idiots” he’s talking about are who (as much i posted it plently times on various thread, inviting to read ) still don’t want to read dev’s posts, where staff admitted DR system as broken giving unfair rewards, inviting the community to just wait a fix, having fun waiting if someone post the exploit to get 60 tokens per run, regardless of the DR.
Still no, i can keep posting it 100 times more, still you will see this thread (and his 2 replicas) growing of posts with random token rewards, and people whining. Not understanding they are wasting their time and anger on something just cannot be accomplished , because we lack of a fix

Haha

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

Hayden.7920:

DivineBeing.2086:

Eolirin.1830:

They need DR so that if people find a game breaking dungeon exploit that allows them to significantly bypass Dungeon content, it doesn’t result in tanking the entire game economy or devaluing the dungeon armors. This isn’t meant to be a way to slow down players or punish being efficient, but a way to safe guard the broader game against techniques that use game bugs to trivialize content.

Dungeons generate more gold than most other activities in the game, and they want to be able to keep it that way, but that means they need defense against exploits before they happen, not just responses after they happen. This is an attempt to do that, it’s just bugged and needs additional tuning. Give them a little more time.

Shhh. Don’t point it out again. If these idiots can’t read and understand Anet’s responses than they deserve to be in the dark.

Obviously you’ve got plenty of better things to do in GW2 than run certain dungeons. We are aware of ‘why’ Anet is doing this, but it’s the wrong solution and it only comes with problems. Don’t go calling those of us who are disgruntled by the system “idiots” just because this is no problem for you. Those of us who AREN’T exploiting, and want to spend our time on GW2 running a certain dungeon for an armour set CAN’T do so, because this system encourages one little fling with the dungeon per day. we are then expected to move on, but with my goal being the set in the reward i’d rather stay there and keep working at it. Players like me suffer. I do honest legit runs that take up to 1 hour, never ‘too fast’ to technically fall under this system. I still get only 5 tokens most of the time. if we could atleast get something in the field of 20-30 for each consecutive run, we’d still be busting our chops but it would be worthwhile, and our means to play would be satisfied.

The “idiots” he’s talking about are who (as much i posted it plently times on various thread, inviting to read ) still don’t want to read dev’s posts, where staff admitted DR system as broken giving unfair rewards, inviting the community to just wait a fix, having fun waiting if someone post the exploit to get 60 tokens per run, regardless of the DR.
Still no, i can keep posting it 100 times more, still you will see this thread (and his 2 replicas) growing of posts with random token rewards, and people whining. Not understanding they are wasting their time and anger on something just cannot be accomplished , because we lack of a fix

Haha

but it’s not just about the tokens, yes those are glitched, but the system even when ‘healthy’ would deter us from attempting the dungeon more than once a day, it would punish us for playing efficiently, it would cater to the wrong people. much anger comes from this facet of the negative effects the DR imposes. it is the wrong solution. it doesn’t stop exploiters, it just makes them wait a little longer. it’s a universal bandage over holes which require individual attention, and it comes with trouble.

Well yes, obiouvsly we can add the timing, now set at 30 minutes. They truly think the exploit is a matter of timing, not how the fight is established, running between adds, pulling a boss till the WayPoint etc etc

Well, i’m not so much surprised, i was a GuildWars 1 player

(Who understood what i’m talking about, will laugh a bit)

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

Well yes, obiouvsly we can add the timing, now set at 30 minutes. They truly think the exploit is a matter of timing, not how the fight is established, running between adds, pulling a boss till the WayPoint etc etc

Well, i’m not so much surprised, i was a GuildWars 1 player

(Who understood what i’m talking about, will laugh a bit)

You’re right, and that is the problem. we complain because their method of determining what is an exploit, is based on criteria which normal players can meet, and thus be penalised for, simply for being honest, persistent and well coordinated. They as you say should focus more on just HOW the player got to that end chest, not WHEN, and perhaps put in barriers along the way which require the completion of previous parts of the process to trigger the final chest, from the first event to the last.

Anet is just being lazy. Its more troublesome going through all the dungeons pin pointing out the exploits and fix them and test run, its easier to just implement a population wide DR.

Evil.9061:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

but hitting different paths quickly won’t initially draw the influence of the DR system. .

“Running through multiple speed clears back to back will result in the DR system influencing your rewards.” -Robert H 9/26

Dont these directly contradict one another?

Not necessarily. From what I’ve been able to gather from red posters there are two paralell systems in place.

1. Specific DR
2. Global DR

The specific DR kicks in if you play the same path multiple times in rapid succession. The Global DR on the other hand keeps count of totals (i.e. multiple paths) cleared in any specific time period it will take longer for this to kick in but eventually it will kick in.

Ok so 3 days I didn’t run ANY dungeons, tonight I ran TA a totally new path that I never did before, forward and forward I think it was. The run took us 1 hour 30mins, and at the end I got a whole 15 badges. The rest of the group got 60!!!!!

I started thinking I wonder if I am being “punished” for doing some speed runs before the CoF buff (1.4?)? I speed ran CoF a few times (not knowing that some of the things we where doing where exploits at the time).
And the only dungeon piece I have is the chestpeice. Not like I have a full set of anything!

So now am I being punished for speed running before patch 1.4?

Who else out there is only getting 15 badges per run and also did the speed run CoF clears?

MrLee.6892:

Ok so 3 days I didn’t run ANY dungeons, tonight I ran TA a totally new path that I never did before, forward and forward I think it was. The run took us 1 hour 30mins, and at the end I got a whole 15 badges. The rest of the group got 60!!!!!

I started thinking I wonder if I am being “punished” for doing some speed runs before the CoF buff (1.4?)? I speed ran CoF a few times (not knowing that some of the things we where doing where exploits at the time).
And the only dungeon piece I have is the chestpeice. Not like I have a full set of anything!

So now am I being punished for speed running before patch 1.4?

Who else out there is only getting 15 badges per run and also did the speed run CoF clears?

If you’d actually read the sticky about this, you’d know that there is a bug with some people, they’re still being punished for speed runs done a long time ago.

I see, that’s why a lot of people is posting about teams getting 60 60 60 60 60 60
Kicks ye. Sure.

I understand there is a bug, yes I have read the devs comments in my own thread I started. But like I asked I am wondering if the people who are only getting 15 badges if they where doing the speed runs before 1.4 or not???

Doesn’t matter.

I think people are just frustrated that of the —five-- weeks that the game has been out, the diminishing returns system has been implemented and bugged for two of them.

And dungeons are what people like to do when they hit 80. What you have to fall back on are dynamic events, crafting, map completion, and WvW. However, these things can only keep someone interested for so long. Map completion can’t be done for long periods of time by everyone. Dynamic events, while interesting the first few times, tend to get monotonous after a while.

The game is best when you can do a little bit of everything, and right now, people are frustrated that dungeons are not working as intended. They haven’t been. And even when you get past the diminishing returns system problems, you still have bugs and broken mechanics and such.

Two out of —five-- weeks of launch. That’s kind of a big deal. Let’s be honest. When games first release nowadays, they have about a month to hook people and keep them interested. I’ll leave that there.

Arena Net could do much, much better with dungeons. I think everyone can agree with that. If you hold dungeons up next to everything else, they pale in comparison.

Edit: Just kidding. Five.

BTW today is 1 month from official launch, lol. And DR was online from 25th of this month

What the crazy are you on? I do not know if joking or just _________.

Diminishing Returns was implemented a lot earlier than the 25th…

I take it you think it was implemented on the 25th, because you’re reading the patch notes that came out on the 25th, which means that you either just hit 80 or did not do any explorable dungeons for the past two weeks.

miya.5160:

What the crazy are you on? I do not know if joking or just _________.

Diminishing Returns was implemented a lot earlier than the 25th…

I take it you think it was implemented on the 25th, because you’re reading the patch notes that came out on the 25th. Which means that you either just hit 80 or did not do any explorable dungeons for the past two weeks.

Before the 25th we would all get a set amount of tokens, 20. Each path.

Now we should be getting 20 for completion of each path and an additional 40 for each day we do it. Total of 60 for each path we take.

I was getting the 20 tokens per run BEFORE the 25th. After the 25th I am getting 15 (and 6).

Again all I am wondering is, if people who did the speed run BEFORE the 25th patch are they being punished for it now by receiving less tokens?

I may be way off base here, but it’s just something I was wondering about.

• And for the Devs who see this, I just ran CoF Mag. Haven’t ran it since before the 25th patch. It took us 1 hour. I got 6 tokens.

And why is it if you type who and read in a sentence it gets the kitten filter??? LOL!!
kittenad

Oh, before the 25th, they implemented a patch that gave us diminishing returns that affected money and experience.

The system is simply broken. If it were working properly, unless you exploit or run a dungeon multiple times extremely quickly, you will get 60 for the first run and 20 thereafter. It’s SUPPOSED TO only affect people who exploit or clear over and over the same path very quickly.

I believe they are doing extensive testing on this next patch to not introduce any more problems, so this next one will fix everything? Well, it’ll fix everything regarding the diminishing returns system that may or may not have been necessary had they actually spent time and effort in fixing exploits, bugs, and broken things. But I digress.

Positive experience here for once:

I’m running dungeons every evening with my buddies. We’re mostly focusing on one or two different dungeons and are figuring out the different paths.
We can run all 3 paths of CM in succession and receive intended rewards (60 tokens per path), except for 2 people in our guild who have this nasty bug.

I think it takes us a little bit more than 2 hours or so to complete all paths, including breaks and the usual time wasting.
My point is: it is possible to run consecutive dungeons in a reasonable amount of time and get the full reward (if you are one of the lucky players that are not bugged obviously).

We didn’t actually note the time for the paths (will do tonight) but I think it’s about half an hour per CM path. There are propably players out there that finish the dungeon in half the time but we’re definitely not slow, so you don’t have to worry about speed, at least in CM.

JonPeters.5630:

Thank you this is excellent info. We would like dungeons to be legit hard enough to take closer to 45 mins but if we can’t accomplish that goal we can look at the speed clear times from non exploiters and easily adjust the system. The goal is that hardcore farmers don’t even see this thing but only exploiters. We will keep working towards that goal.

Jon

Can i ask is that 45mins complete run with a casual party or an organised group? An organised group will always finish something alot faster than a casual group.

So if this is for a casual group, i think you can expect a organised group who learn to do the dungeons to do your expectations on half your time… 20-25mins.

If this is organised groups to take 45mins after learning the dungeons, then this will really hurt casual groups trying to get them to do a dungeon upwards to 2hours and only being rewarded for the end of a dungeon.

Only way it seems an organised group is going to balance to this system your trying to make balanced to both player types, is the organised group is going to have to stand around at the start for 10-15mins just to stack time onto their runs.

Another nice idea would be give players a DR debuff so they know when they need to slow down and what its ok to actually do a dungeon.

I’m on board with the “why is this a thing?” people.

Even if the system did work correctly, which of course it isn’t, and instead of being disabled until it’s fixed, we have people running only 1 path in 1 dungeon a day, getting a very small amount of tokens, I don’t see the point of it at all.

It is to discourage people from farming dungeons quickly and efficiently all day without doing anything else in-between?

…Why?

Why do you care if they do that? The rewards are account-bound, and they don’t give any stat advantages over any other exotic gear, they just look different. If someone loves dungeons and only wants to run all the dungeons, all day long, with their friends, why is that bad? Why do we need to make them go and do something else in-between?

Why is this a goal worth making players put up with a bugged system screwing up their rewards for while it’s being fixed? Why is this taking up the GM’s time, when since the last patch certain dungeons have been completely broken to everyone on specific servers?

Feels like it’s a solution to a problem no one had, which is only creating problems and taking time from others.

If it is such a colossal problem which required a buggy and controversial fix, why not make it transparent like others have suggested? Put a visible reward cooldown timer on it or something so people can see when their time is up, if you’re set on making them wait an arbitrary period for your own mysterious purposes.

I just wanted to add a few words.

This system punishes everyone as already stated in this thread by countless people. I hope anet really rethinks what they are doing. I’ve been running dungeons for the past few days with unorganized/casual groups. Specifically Arah, this is extremely hard. It becomes more like a chore. So to all the people who can effectively clear dungeons in shorter periods of time deserve all the tokens they get.

Does farming anything considered an exploit? Does anet just decide what an exploit is?

Rarely do we ever change the minds of corporations.

Lucas Ashrock.8675

The “idiots” he’s talking about are who (as much i posted it plently times on various thread, inviting to read ) still don’t want to read dev’s posts, where staff admitted DR system as broken giving unfair rewards, inviting the community to just wait a fix, having fun waiting if someone post the exploit to get 60 tokens per run, regardless of the DR.
Still no, i can keep posting it 100 times more, still you will see this thread (and his 2 replicas) growing of posts with random token rewards, and people whining. Not understanding they are wasting their time and anger on something just cannot be accomplished , because we lack of a fix

Haha

This. This. And so much this! You got my point exactly!

Now, let’s help some other’s really get our point shall we? I will quote an Anet Staff and try to point out the important parts.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Correct. People can speculate about the timing involved and how it works – we will not be divulging this information since it opens the system up to people finding ways around it. While we are confident in the system, we are doubly confident that people are amazing at finding holes in systems and breaking them.
The system is currently bugged, and is treating people unfairly. We’re actively working on it.

See the bolded item? THE SYSTEM IS BUGGED RIGHT NOW! Ok? It is treating people unfairly. But what does this mean oh grand master? This means you can keep posting I got 2 tokens while my guildie in same group gets 60 all you want, all day long, but it won’t change nothing. Why? Because they know it’s bugged, hence the bolded part, AND they are ACTIVELY working to fix it. Ok?

Next item…

JonPeters.5630:

Plain and simple this system is a safety net for stopping crazy farming when people find exploits that make each run super fast. We are also addressing those loopholes, but that takes time and new ones might always be discovered. If you and your group do the dungeons without skipping large sections and run different chains this system shoul(bugs aside) never impact you.

Addendum for clarity, super fast means < 30 minutes, and even then you must hit that speed multiple times in a row before you start seeing any impact.

JonPeters.5630:

Thank you this is excellent info. We would like dungeons to be legit hard enough to take closer to 45 mins but if we can’t accomplish that goal we can look at the speed clear times from non exploiters and easily adjust the system. The goal is that hardcore farmers don’t even see this thing but only exploiters. We will keep working towards that goal.

Jon

This is a two parter so try to stay with me on this one. The first quote is explaining that the system is to stop exploiters from fast runs. Now, did he say people who run it efficiently? No. Did he call those who run it efficiently exploiters? No.

Let’s take a look at the second quote there. “We would like dungeons to be legit hard enough to take closer to 45 mins”. Hmmmmmmmm. HMMMMMM. Interesting. lol.

So if the developers intentions were for players to be in the dungeon for 45 minutes than DR kicking in around 15 minutes seems pretty reasonable right? Why? Because there is no way if the system works completely correct, which they are ACTIVELY working towards that goal, than you cannot hit that DR limit without using an exploit! Why? "But the limit is there!!!!! I am totally going to hit it! “I have child hood issues caused by my parents not setting enough boundaries which causes me as an adult to be anxious around such limitations!” So let’s break down that 45 minute run shall we?

Anet’s goal: 45 minute run for the average player!
The “A” teams or pro players: probably going to be around the 30 minute mark, maybe 25 min.
The absolute TOP TEAM: 20 minutes if lucky by nobody dying and landing a bunch of criticals everywhere.
DR limit: roughly 15 minutes is a good assumption of what they will probably go with.
conclusion: nobody, nobody, should be hitting the DR limit without the use of exploits because shedding off 5 minutes off a perfect record set by the very, very, best team isn’t very likely. Look up how hard it is for olympian’s to shed off mere seconds off their times. And this is looking at the very top players. Average players? No contest.

Why am I even posting this? It will just be buried and I bet the next post after mine goes like:

The dungeon’s are messed up! Fix your stuff! Fail! I got 15 tokens first run and 5 tokens second run, while my guildie got 60 tokens on both! Is it treating me unfairly!?!?

Btw, done posting so have fun.

DivineBeing.2086:

This means you can keep posting I got 2 tokens while my guildie in same group gets 60 all you want, all day long, but it won’t change nothing. Why? Because they know it’s bugged, hence the bolded part, AND they are ACTIVELY working to fix it. Ok?

too bad he also asked for them: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Patch-Discussion-9-25-1/255660

oh the irony complaining about people not reading devposts…

DivineBeing.2086:

This is a two parter so try to stay with me on this one. The first quote is explaining that the system is to stop exploiters from fast runs. Now, did he say people who run it efficiently? No. Did he call those who run it efficiently exploiters? No.

again, too bad that they didn’t tune it to 15, but 30 minutes – which is actually possible, and thus hurts legit speedrunners. it’s tuned to 10 now (why wasn’t it tuned to 10 right from the start?) not to mention it’s the second week it’s bugged. it should have been fixed last week when it wasn’t obvious it didn’t work properly.

because it sure showed that exploiters not to exploit the last two weeks it was in effect. and don’t forget the sneaked in karma DR for events…

DivineBeing.2086:

….

I appreciate all your clarification. My concern is the 30 minute mark that’s currently in place. I see 30 minutes mentioned there and 10 minute runs mentioned elsewhere both by devs.
I ran TA exp yesterday with 3 friends and one random pug, and we completed it in 24 minutes with nothing skipped and one brief afk. Some people died occasionally, we didn’t all crit at once, etc.

I do hope that they consider as you’ve written the 10-15 minute mark and revise their idea of speed clears quickly, because it certainly doesn’t take the best team in the game to complete a dungeon in under 30 minutes, let alone exploits.

I don’t really undestrund why the speed-ran dungeon is disturbing you. A Net, you’re doing everything to make this playable dungeons worse and worse. Anyway, if somebody want dungeon set/weapon he will do it as well, so why casual players have to get less fun, because full farmed players are too good in speed-running dungeons?

@Gray
Yes, the irony! Because that dev stated to post “here” which in that context is THAT thread. Not this one, not a new one, not in a different thread. That thread. Irony. Reread it.

They also tuned it to 30 because they intended (pointed out by my post, reread) to be 45 minute runs.

@Anastasia
The current state of the game:
- The DR system is treating other unfairly.
- Players are capable of clearing the dungeons faster than their intentions (45 minutes but players clear in 20 minutes). They stated they are actively working to correct this so dungeons last 45 minutes. When they have that in place THEN it will be unplausible for a team to even get to the 15 minute mark, let alone the 20 minute one.

The above is pointed out in my post too.

But yes, I do agree with everyone that I hope they fix the system soon. Good things come in due time though. Be patient guys.

DivineBeing.2086:

But yes, I do agree with everyone that I hope they fix the system soon. Good things come in due time though. Be patient guys.

Patient? There are plenty of other finished, tested, working games to be “patient” with.

I am not on board with the DR system myself. It will never effect me, I am not one of them players that will speed run dungeons or grind tokens as fast as I possibly can. I honestly have only ran 1 story and 1 patch on explore mode. I don’t care for the grouping system here.

Who cares if people clear it in 5 minutes. Would it not be easier to have the end rewards drop after all the content was cleared. If that includes all mobs being dead or switches pulled or what ever the mechanic is. If a group of people can do it in x amount of time let them do it.

What was that one thing that kept being said throughout this game’s creation? “We don’t want our players to grind”, something like that?

No, seriously though Anet, this system that punishes good players is absolutely ridiculous. The DR system isn’t something that should be meant for dungeons.