Guild Wars 2

I like Nevets’ idea. Winner of the bet (hendo or guan) gets a gift from me!

I’ll give each of you half my gold to participate! That’s like 5 gold apiece.

Lilith, you’re gonna have more gifts to give than Santa Claus at this rate.

All kinds of gifts.

I think I send a gift a day.

Like a circus… That’s intense.

Lilith goes crazy.

Anyway, I’ve got the feeling guang is going to crawl back into his hole, waiting until he thinks we forgot about this and then claiming he won the argument. At least that’s what usually happens.

hendo.1940:

Lilith goes crazy.

Anyway, I’ve got the feeling guang is going to crawl back into his hole, waiting until he thinks we forgot about this and then claiming he won the argument. At least that’s what usually happens.

But every time he resurfaces he is more and more violent. He’s a real disney movie bad guy!

Hey, you want me to theorycraft you a build, I’m right here. I’m ready whenever you are.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Hey, you want me to theorycraft you a build, I’m right here. I’m ready whenever you are.

The gauntlet’s been thrown!!!

So, Guang, can you describe what 5 man composition would be ideal for speed clears? Full details including armor, runes, weapons, sigils, traits, skills, and proper rotations?

Then Hendo or DnT or rT or whoever else can test and we can see who is correct.

I can just tell you, engineers and mostly rangers have no spot in.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Hey, you want me to theorycraft you a build, I’m right here. I’m ready whenever you are.

The gauntlet’s been thrown!!!

So, Guang, can you describe what 5 man composition would be ideal for speed clears? Full details including armor, runes, weapons, sigils, traits, skills, and proper rotations?

Then Hendo or DnT or rT or whoever else can test and we can see who is correct.

Which dungeon/path?

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Hey, you want me to theorycraft you a build, I’m right here. I’m ready whenever you are.

The gauntlet’s been thrown!!!

So, Guang, can you describe what 5 man composition would be ideal for speed clears? Full details including armor, runes, weapons, sigils, traits, skills, and proper rotations?

Then Hendo or DnT or rT or whoever else can test and we can see who is correct.

Which dungeon/path?

I personally don’t care. I suppose for comparison’s sake it’d probably be best to challenge one of these:

http://gwscr.com/records/current-meta-dungeon-records

Not sure how up to date those are though.

Edit: I would say have a look at those, find a “restricted” path that you find the most “incorrect” and provide a full party description for how to do it better.

What about arah path 2? Restricted, no execengisploits allowed.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Hey, you want me to theorycraft you a build, I’m right here. I’m ready whenever you are.

Any luck in theorycrafting up a warrior build that maintains 22-25 stacks of might for the group?

hendo.1940:

What about arah path 2? Restricted, no execengisploits allowed.

There’s no time for comparison on GWSC for that path. What time would Guang have to beat?

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

hendo.1940:

What about arah path 2? Restricted, no execengisploits allowed.

There’s no time for comparison on GWSC for that path. What time would Guang have to beat?

About 10 minutes and few seconds.

DigitalKirin.9714:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Hey, you want me to theorycraft you a build, I’m right here. I’m ready whenever you are.

Any luck in theorycrafting up a warrior build that maintains 22-25 stacks of might for the group?

Beast. <3

hendo.1940:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

hendo.1940:

What about arah path 2? Restricted, no execengisploits allowed.

There’s no time for comparison on GWSC for that path. What time would Guang have to beat?

About 10 minutes and few seconds.

DigitalKirin.9714:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Hey, you want me to theorycraft you a build, I’m right here. I’m ready whenever you are.

Any luck in theorycrafting up a warrior build that maintains 22-25 stacks of might for the group?

Beast. <3

Gotta factor in the ferocity patch though, if not using FGS it will make more of a difference.

dutchiez.7502:

hendo.1940:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

hendo.1940:

What about arah path 2? Restricted, no execengisploits allowed.

There’s no time for comparison on GWSC for that path. What time would Guang have to beat?

About 10 minutes and few seconds.

DigitalKirin.9714:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Hey, you want me to theorycraft you a build, I’m right here. I’m ready whenever you are.

Any luck in theorycrafting up a warrior build that maintains 22-25 stacks of might for the group?

Beast. <3

Gotta factor in the ferocity patch though, if not using FGS it will make more of a difference.

Yeah, to make it a fair comparison, I think we should only compare post-patch records. I believe the records posted on the link I shared above are all post-patch, so perhaps we should stick to those.

TA Forward. :P

Well, for P2 you’ll want:

1) Stealth for skips. Engineer can provide this.
2) Reflects for Lupi. Engi or ranger could technically do this but mesmer is probably ideal. Mesmer helps with Alphard too since 100% reflect uptime and she does a lot of damage to herself as well.
3) Lots of DPS for everything else.

So ideally you’d probably want to go something like EA warrior, staff ele, DPS-spec rifle/nade engie, reflect-spec mesmer, and Spotter/FS ranger.

I’d primarily be concerned about the ranger having problems with Belka’s fire AOEs and the mesmer not doing much damage against abom due to the abom’s swing killing phantasms. You could probably substitute a guardian as well and see how that works out, then make up the DPS loss with another ele or something.

I’d also be interested to see if ranger spirits increase Lupi shots and if a traited Whirling Defense works to reflect his barrage. If it does then a 5-spirit ranger might be worth taking versus him even if it costs earlier on versus Belka. Similarly mesmer does enough DPS versus Lupi and Alphard that it’s probably worth taking even with a DPS penalty versus Abom.

Ideally though we’d make the engi the only thing that changes in the comp so I’d be interested in hearing hendo’s take on it. You’d probably be swapping the engie for a thief or second ele in a no-engi comp I think.

…

I’ve got the popcorn, this is going to be nice!

It’s probably worth remembering that Guang calculates everything in a vacuum and doesn’t have actual speed run experience, hence the bad composition he just posted above.

maha.7902:

It’s probably worth remembering that Guang calculates everything in a vacuum and doesn’t have actual speed run experience, hence the bad composition he just posted above.

Also 6u4n6m47h5

Theres no point even bothering with that comp. Would be a complete waste of time. x)

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Well, for P2 you’ll want:

1) Stealth for skips. Engineer can provide this.
2) Reflects for Lupi. Engi or ranger could technically do this but mesmer is probably ideal. Mesmer helps with Alphard too since 100% reflect uptime and she does a lot of damage to herself as well.
3) Lots of DPS for everything else.

So ideally you’d probably want to go something like EA warrior, staff ele, DPS-spec rifle/nade engie, reflect-spec mesmer, and Spotter/FS ranger.

I’d primarily be concerned about the ranger having problems with Belka’s fire AOEs and the mesmer not doing much damage against abom due to the abom’s swing killing phantasms. You could probably substitute a guardian as well and see how that works out, then make up the DPS loss with another ele or something.

I’d also be interested to see if ranger spirits increase Lupi shots and if a traited Whirling Defense works to reflect his barrage. If it does then a 5-spirit ranger might be worth taking versus him even if it costs earlier on versus Belka. Similarly mesmer does enough DPS versus Lupi and Alphard that it’s probably worth taking even with a DPS penalty versus Abom.

Ideally though we’d make the engi the only thing that changes in the comp so I’d be interested in hearing hendo’s take on it. You’d probably be swapping the engie for a thief or second ele in a no-engi comp I think.

http://i.imgur.com/ASWb9.gif

I think it would be unfair to have any guild, rT or otherwise, do this all pro bono (especially since nobody in any of those guild actually said they’d do it). If you truly believe that this composition will break a record, I would think you’d be willing to fund the specific builds that would be used to make the run. (Specific runes, etc.)

DigitalKirin.9714:

I think it would be unfair to have any guild, rT or otherwise, do this all pro bono (especially since nobody in any of those guild actually said they’d do it). If you truly believe that this composition will break a record, I would think you’d be willing to fund the specific builds that would be used to make the run. (Specific runes, etc.)

I hope you have a good insurance policy on the loans you grant!

Darox.8069:

I hope you have a good insurance policy on the loans you grant!

Well if Guanglai doesn’t have the money, maybe Nevets will front the cash.

DigitalKirin.9714:

I think it would be unfair to have any guild, rT or otherwise, do this all pro bono (especially since nobody in any of those guild actually said they’d do it). If you truly believe that this composition will break a record, I would think you’d be willing to fund the specific builds that would be used to make the run. (Specific runes, etc.)

It’s true that no guild said they’d do it. However, I’ve seen this back and forth between Guang and the speed clear groups on more than one occasion. It seems to me like this would be an easy way to finish the discussion once and for all. Therefore the challenge isn’t really “pro bono.” What the speed clear guilds get is the immaterial value of proving Guang wrong. If he is right, then they get the material value of more gold/hour to level up new engis

DigitalKirin.9714:

Darox.8069:

I hope you have a good insurance policy on the loans you grant!

Well if Guanglai doesn’t have the money, maybe Nevets will front the cash.

I’ll front all the cash I have, sell all my mats, and salvage all the crappy exo gear I don’t use anymore for some more cash but I doubt I’d break 100 gold.

Edit: And as for real life cash, I’m in college so I don’t have much of that either.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

What the speed clear guilds get is the immaterial value of proving Guang wrong.

You have no idea how often I already did this, he’s just disappearing and plopping up later again, claiming he won an argument.

Except the burden of proof is for Guanglai to prove himself Right, not for others to prove him wrong. Besides, if we wanted to prove him wrong, we could just ask him how many might stacks a PS warrior can maintain on a group.

11-15, you know.

DigitalKirin.9714:

Except the burden of proof is for Guanglai to prove himself Right, not for others to prove him wrong. Besides, if we wanted to prove him wrong, we could just ask him how many might stacks a PS warrior can maintain on a group.

I get your point, but he can’t really prove himself right alone. Dungeons are a group effort. While he could partake in the run himself, or make his own guild and do it his way, you should take it as flattery that you guys are the de facto go-to people because you already know what you’re doing.

And that being said, that means their time and effort is valuable. If you really truly believe in guanglai’s team comp, you’d be willing to put your money behind it.

Id happily test a team comp he comes up with if it actually made atleast some sense. That comp for p2 just seems like a troll comp.

Not going to waste my time on a composition which we know 100% wont succeed before we even try it.

DigitalKirin.9714:

And that being said, that means their time and effort is valuable. If you really truly believe in guanglai’s team comp, you’d be willing to put your money behind it.

I’m not claiming to take sides, I just find the discussion intriguing and hope for my engi’s sake that Guang is correct. As I said above, I’m willing to front all my in-game gold.

No more #azreell2014, please.

hendo.1940:

No more #azreell2014, please.

Please, you may not have good feelings toward Guang, but he surely has more credibility than Azreel.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

I’m not claiming to take sides, I just find the discussion intriguing and hope for my engi’s sake that Guang is correct. As I said above, I’m willing to front all my in-game gold.

Fair enough. I’m fine with that, but of course, I’m not the one that would really need convincing since I’m not in any of those guilds. I just wouldn’t want to see anyone’s time wasted without a modicum of compensation.

Yeah, I must admit he does. Although he lives totally far off reality, he’s isn’t a mentally broken coward.

hendo.1940:

Yeah, I must admit he does. Although he lives totally far off reality, he’s isn’t a mentally broken coward.

haha!

spoj.9672:

Id happily test a team comp he comes up with if it actually made atleast some sense. That comp for p2 just seems like a troll comp.

Not going to waste my time on a composition which we know 100% wont succeed before we even try it.

Pretty much this. Anyone with a modicum of experience can tell you that this it is a complete waste of time to even test. And the whole burden of truth thing, too ^.^

You’d want at least two eles, one warrior and a thief for path 2. The last spot is basically free to fill up, should usually contain an elementalist or a guardian. All depending on tactics, of course. I imagine a third elementalist could come ahead of a guardian, at the cost of quite some safety, though. As for rangers, mesmers and engis, though, they have absolutely no spot.
Just to give you a raw idea what a possible team composition for said path could look like. Edit: Depending on restricted/unrestricted, a second warrior might actually become useful.

hendo.1940:

You’d want at least two eles, one warrior and a thief for path 2. The last spot is basically free to fill up, should usually contain an elementalist or a guardian. All depending on tactics, of course. I imagine a third elementalist could come ahead of a guardian, at the cost of quite some safety, though. As for rangers, mesmers and engis, though, they have absolutely no spot.
Just to give you a raw idea what a possible team composition for said path could look like.

Idk, I don’t think taking an ele over guardian is worth it, especially for lupi & alphard where reflects are king. 2 ele/thief/war/guard is what I’d say.

Well, ele’sploits at Lupicus. Magnetic Wave becomes epic strong 50k reflects if everyone stacks up correctly. As for Alphard, you’d simply save up two fgs’s to burst her down within 2-12 seconds. As for safety, a guardian surely is the better choice. You just lose quite some damage and especially movement speed.

hendo.1940:

Well, ele’sploits at Lupicus. Magnetic Wave becomes epic strong 50k reflects if everyone stacks up correctly. As for Alphard, you’d simply save up two fgs’s to burst her down within 2-12 seconds. As for safety, a guardian surely is the better choice. You just lose quite some damage and especially movement speed.

If you can that at lupi with ele then yea that would be the better choice :P

We also forgot about the thief, dagger storm is quite reliable.

dutchiez.7502:

hendo.1940:

You’d want at least two eles, one warrior and a thief for path 2. The last spot is basically free to fill up, should usually contain an elementalist or a guardian. All depending on tactics, of course. I imagine a third elementalist could come ahead of a guardian, at the cost of quite some safety, though. As for rangers, mesmers and engis, though, they have absolutely no spot.
Just to give you a raw idea what a possible team composition for said path could look like.

Idk, I don’t think taking an ele over guardian is worth it, especially for lupi & alphard where reflects are king. 2 ele/thief/war/guard is what I’d say.

I think that is a pretty staple group composition right there, guard for reflects + aegis + decent dps, eles for damage and might stacks and blinds, war for dps + banners (if no eles then he could PS). Basically the thief is the only thing the engi could sort of replace for the 17 seconds of stealth (smoke bomb + toss elixir S if i recall which goes over the 12 second stealth cap, warning have not personally tested).

With that said i guess to really merit the ranger in a party, we have to measure how much damage increase spotter + frost spirit would equate to in terms of dps increase since the ranger + pets dps fully buffed is so low. Then again, if the ranger is just going to use say the LH from the ele or FGS, then he should be dealing respectable damage. For that reason I would prefer to have either 1 ranger or 1 mesmer in my dream comp, but not both at the same time.

So in closing, a ranger could be good if he uses the eles LH a good % of the time. Especially for burst fights with the signet of wild (25% extra damage)