Guild Wars 2

Sins.4782:

Bit of an off question, but how much of ice bow 4’s damage occurs after the channel finishes? Would using Elixir X immediately after it provide a significant damage increase?

It’s probably not enough to be worth it, meteor shower maybe.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Since we’re going nowhere with this, how about we get an actual video of the alleged engie run, so we can see how bad it allegedly was?

If we’re just going on the basis of “we totally did this (in secret) and it was pretty bad” I could just sit here and claim I did a record run solo with an engie in full clerics gear and beat the existing records but oops i forgot to record it so you’ll just have to take my word for it.

I don’t think you know how speedrun attempt looks like.

Just so we are on the same page, we’ve used your ideal team composition:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Well, for P2 you’ll want:

1) Stealth for skips. Engineer can provide this.
2) Reflects for Lupi. Engi or ranger could technically do this but mesmer is probably ideal. Mesmer helps with Alphard too since 100% reflect uptime and she does a lot of damage to herself as well.
3) Lots of DPS for everything else.

So ideally you’d probably want to go something like EA warrior, staff ele, DPS-spec rifle/nade engie, reflect-spec mesmer, and Spotter/FS ranger.

Ideal wasn’t so ideal because once again you forgot that dungeon run isn’t just few fights with some bosses that do nothing like dummies in LA.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

This thread is the worst thing since atse

It was just as bad for as long as we had only Guangmaths to deal with, but now, ladies and gentlemen, we are facing an all new kind of challenge. Let me introduce ….

Guangmyths!

Darox.8069:

Guangmyths!

I think what’s happening in terms of “I am Guang i always win”, is that he’s forgetting that while one group of players may have been corrected by his arguments way way back about rangers/dps guardians/eles, there were another group that were already well aware of everything he had to say and/or knew better. If it’s not clear, I’m talking about NA vs. EU.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

spoj.9672:

I look forward to seeing a record with an engi only so we can beat it without one.

I imagine you’ll have to ask Jerem nicely or wait a few years

Wait what? hmm how about no? The only dungeon engi might have a place could be HotW P2/3, but that’s pretty much it.

Jeremlloyd.6837:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

spoj.9672:

I look forward to seeing a record with an engi only so we can beat it without one.

I imagine you’ll have to ask Jerem nicely or wait a few years

Wait what? hmm how about no? The only dungeon engi might have a place could be HotW P2/3, but that’s pretty much it.

Well, there goes that. Have fun waiting a few years spoj

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I don’t even know who you are apart from “some guy on the forum talking a lot of kitten.” You’re basically Warlord 2.0 as far as I’m concerned.

Are you trolling or really so slow on catching up? I mean you even assumed I’m in rT.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Jeremlloyd.6837:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

spoj.9672:

I look forward to seeing a record with an engi only so we can beat it without one.

I imagine you’ll have to ask Jerem nicely or wait a few years

Wait what? hmm how about no? The only dungeon engi might have a place could be HotW P2/3, but that’s pretty much it.

Well, there goes that. Have fun waiting a few years spoj

Inb4 SC casuals.

haviz.1340:

Ideal wasn’t so ideal because once again you forgot that dungeon run isn’t just few fights with some bosses that do nothing like dummies in LA.

Even if they did nothing, the setup would still be pretty trashy.

Guys I need your detailed opinion on this engi build I found:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIqiY3zyuF17ICoH1HgNiiKkffe8WpFEC-jwBBYNBkyAgIAMPtIaslhFRjVXDT5iIqGA-e

Now don’t tell me that was from guang.

hendo.1940:

Now don’t tell me that was from guang.

:D

Just tested max dps engi build in a non organized setting.

Never again, worse reliability than necro.

hendo.1940:

Just tested max dps engi build in a non organized setting.

Never again, worse reliability than necro.

Note to the reader: the max dps engi build is not the one that Guang published. It took us a few minutes to come up with something better, and still, it’s bad.

Yeah no idea why people advocate traveler runes, givers weapons etc. Engi is still a decent vuln bot with scholar + full berserker. But its not a speedrun class.

Zelyhn don’t leave us in the dark! Share your findings please!

Darox.8069:

Guys I need your detailed opinion on this engi build I found:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIqiY3zyuF17ICoH1HgNiiKkffe8WpFEC-jwBBYNBkyAgIAMPtIaslhFRjVXDT5iIqGA-e

?
Thats the build most people is using. The other one is 6-6-0-0-2.
Some people also claim that 6-3-0-0-5 is better… but I really don’t like traits like scope or enduring damage… reduced tool belt skills may be a dps increase tho.

EDIT: ah, ok, I didn’t look at gear. Yeah noone is using givers nor travelers. But I think GK neither after this last patch.

I personally run 6/6/0/0/2 for casual / fast runs. I take rifle mod though for 10% on rifle hits.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

rT casuals […] no idea of meta […]

Someone help, can’t stop laughing my kitten off.

hendo.1940:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

rT casuals […] no idea of meta […]

Someone help, can’t stop laughing my kitten off.

“We can’t even do an Arah run without launching mobs out of stacks” rT, yes.

As long as it is faster to keep them in the stack it will be used in speedruns. I thought we were discussing them, not casual play-how-you-want runs. But hey, what do I know about playing the game? After all, love arrows are so hard to dodge. From range.

haviz.1340:

As long as it is faster to keep them in the stack it will be used in speedruns. I thought we were discussing them, not casual play-how-you-want runs. But hey, what do I know about playing the game? After all, love arrows are so hard to dodge. From range.

From what I understood of what you were trying to imply, you tried to stack on the Aboms before Lupi but blasted them out of the stack with some engie skill and got steamrolled as a result, and decided to blame it on the profession rather than the player.

There is a reason why I don’t take any of you rT guys seriously. You can fix that though by actually backing up some of the claims you’ve made, you realize you’ve collectively done nothing but go “lol u suck we totally did it better but there’s no proof” for like the last four pages.

Incidentally, I just soloed Arah P2 with my engie in six minutes including the loading screen and without skipping any cutscenes, let’s see you beat that.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Incidentally, I just soloed Arah P2 with my engie in six minutes including the loading screen and without skipping any cutscenes, let’s see you beat that.

I can’t wait to see that!

Inb4 world record for soloing lupicus on engi is 6 minutes

Inb4 I sucked playing.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

From what I understood of what you were trying to imply, you tried to stack on the Aboms before Lupi but blasted them out of the stack with some engie skill and got steamrolled as a result, and decided to blame it on the profession rather than the player.

If by steamrolled you mean killing mobs slower because of that than I guess you are right. We kittened that up and got steamrolled. I mean, do you really think that aboms being not stacked is the problem for anyone? They are soloable…

There is a reason why I don’t take any of you rT guys seriously. You can fix that though by actually backing up some of the claims you’ve made, you realize you’ve collectively done nothing but go “lol u suck we totally did it better but there’s no proof” for like the last four pages.

The feeling’s mutual.

Incidentally, I just soloed Arah P2 with my engie in six minutes including the loading screen and without skipping any cutscenes, let’s see you beat that.

You can submit that to gwscr.com, we’ll try to beat that without engie.

I’m so proud now.

x)

This just keeps getting better.

Gyler.8150:

Zelyhn don’t leave us in the dark! Share your findings please!

I want to but I have this personal rule to hold onto the publication of anything until I master it. I have not found anything ground breaking, the build I would use is still 66002. I need to work on coefficients and cast times before I can be certain. And as Lorek would put it, I need “piano lessons”!

I can teach you!

hendo.1940:

I can teach you!

If you play the piano as you play in gw2 then in no time I will be able to one-finger the flight of the bumblebee while solving two Rubik’s cubes, yeah, I’m in!

I’m not that good, I need both hands to play piano. Could probably use my right foot for the rubik’s cube, though.

haviz.1340:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

From what I understood of what you were trying to imply, you tried to stack on the Aboms before Lupi but blasted them out of the stack with some engie skill and got steamrolled as a result, and decided to blame it on the profession rather than the player.

If by steamrolled you mean killing mobs slower because of that than I guess you are right. We kittened that up and got steamrolled. I mean, do you really think that aboms being not stacked is the problem for anyone? They are soloable…

Let’s go ahead and parse what you’ve given us to work with over the last couple of pages then:

haviz.1340:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

I’m sort of confused. Are you all testing engi? I read Guang’s engi post on the DnT forums and saw his video. His numbers seemed plausible at the very least.

We were doing arah p2 run with his recommended team composition and I was completely blown away by the result. I am verry sorry to doubt, I wish I knew earlier.

“We tried it and it didn’t go too well.”

haviz.1340:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

So I’m assuming this is hard sarcasm, and his comp turned out to be bad. Thanks for testing it, I hope you’ll share a vid!

I guess you could say it’s okay on paper.

“It should have worked but we botched it.”

hendo.1940:

Edit: Yeah, we’re totally blown away by the results.
Just like the abominations were.

“We accidentally launched the Aboms out of a stack and they wiped us.”

Darox.8069:

Wow you managed to make Leman post, Guang, that does not happen often. And when it does, it’s meaningful.

As for your engi rotations, it took Dub and I no more than two minutes to come up with something better than yours. This sounds awfully familiar to the time you did not include meteor shower in your staff ele rotation
(Despite me having been talking about ele rotations and staff potential for many months before you wrote your thread ….)

“We ran the wrong engie build.”

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

haviz.1340:

We were doing arah p2 run with his recommended team composition and I was completely blown away by the result. I am very sorry to doubt, I wish I knew earlier.

“We tried it and it didn’t go too well.”

Nope, it went utterly bad, time wise.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

haviz.1340:

I guess you could say it’s okay on paper.

“It should have worked but we botched it.”

We didn’t botch kitten, the circumstances in which engi would be a viable option are simply inexistent in the game.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

hendo.1940:

Edit: Yeah, we’re totally blown away by the results.
Just like the abominations were.

“We accidentally launched the Aboms out of a stack and they wiped us.”

U wot m8?

Darox.8069:

Darox.8069:

Wow you managed to make Leman post, Guang, that does not happen often. And when it does, it’s meaningful.

As for your engi rotations, it took Dub and I no more than two minutes to come up with something better than yours. This sounds awfully familiar to the time you did not include meteor shower in your staff ele rotation
(Despite me having been talking about ele rotations and staff potential for many months before you wrote your thread ….)

“We ran the wrong engie build.”

I used yours. But yours is bad. Not only because engi is bad, but also because you failed maths and assumptions once again and came up with wrong conclusions.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Incidentally, I just soloed Arah P2 with my engie in six minutes including the loading screen and without skipping any cutscenes, let’s see you beat that.

wat

Let’s see you provide proof of that.

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Incidentally, I just soloed Arah P2 with my engie in six minutes including the loading screen and without skipping any cutscenes, let’s see you beat that.

wat

Let’s see you provide proof of that.

Guang never proves anything. Except that he likes being shot, of course.

hendo.1940:

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Incidentally, I just soloed Arah P2 with my engie in six minutes including the loading screen and without skipping any cutscenes, let’s see you beat that.

wat

Let’s see you provide proof of that.

Guang never proves anything. Except that he likes being shot, of course.

I don’t get it.
I avoid siding with anyone in particular whenever I see people arguing, until both parties have provided whatever data they find appropriate to back up their arguments. Afterwards, granted that I am aware that my understanding on the matter is not overwhelmingly limited, I start agreeing with the party that has provided the most compelling arguments/proof/data, still without disregarding anything the other one presents. Sooner or later the arguments of one of them start losing coherence and that’s when they start losing credibility to me.

I like that Guang takes the time to theorycraft and I truly respect that, but in the end theoretical data is just as useful as its practical application. Even if he is actually right, all of his claims will fall short to anyone with a shred of common sense, unless he proves that he’s right, and I believe that I’m not the only one here that opines that his point will be moot until he does.

tl;dr pics or didn’t happen

FenrirSlakt.3692:

I like that Guang takes the time to theorycraft and I truly respect that, but in the end theoretical data is just as useful as its practical application.

Except, his calculations are not even right.

And burden of proof lies on him, pretty much everyone who’s into speedrunning dungeons on a serious level knows that engineers have no spot in, which is not even necessarily limited to practical application. So far he’s just been saying that engis rule, not showing anything to back up his claims, yet not even presenting a build or rotation in this thread.

I’ve tested engi often enough now, results are bad. I have a few engi videos on youtube, check them out yourself. Guang one the other side has nothing.

guang example rotation, just as reference

hendo.1940:

FenrirSlakt.3692:

I like that Guang takes the time to theorycraft and I truly respect that, but in the end theoretical data is just as useful as its practical application.

Except, his calculations are not even right.

And burden of proof lies on him, pretty much everyone who’s into speedrunning dungeons on a serious level knows that engineers have no spot in, which is not even necessarily limited to practical application. So far he’s just been saying that engis rule, not showing anything to back up his claims, yet not even presenting a build or rotation in this thread.

I’ve tested engi often enough now, results are bad. I have a few engi videos on youtube, check them out yourself. Guang one the other side has nothing.

And that’s the reason I find it impossible to sympathise with him. So far he’s been all talk; much ado about nothing.

I don’t think that he’d care less about my opinion about him, but as I believe that putting an amount of effort into anything deserves -at the very least- a bit of respect, I can’t help but to give him the benefit of the doubt before simply branding him as presumptuous and moving on.
Once I take this step, I artlessly disregard whatever serious point a person has to share as inaccurate ramble, so I feel the need to be as absolutely certain as possible that it’s safe to move on.

Sometimes I don’t know why I bother.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

“It should have worked but we botched it.”

By working on paper I meant that it works as everything you do, in vacuum. I’m sorry I wasn’t more specific earlier.

“We accidentally launched the Aboms out of a stack and they wiped us.”

Aboms can easily wipe you when they are being launched out of a stack. Their ranged attack that don’t happen when stacked is an extremely deadly projectile that only the best players in this game can avoid.

I wish I didn’t have to use sarcasm but that’s impossible. It’s not even a theorycrafting folklore anymore.

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Incidentally, I just soloed Arah P2 with my engie in six minutes including the loading screen and without skipping any cutscenes, let’s see you beat that.

wat

Let’s see you provide proof of that.

He’s mocking those who claimed they tested Engi in Arah without providing videos of the encounter for public critique. Not that they are obligated to provide anything to anyone, but it would be nice, (for me, as a curious, unskilled bystander,) if both sides endeavored to show their take on the practical application of Engi.

To sum what has happened so far: Guang made a claim about engineers and provided some math and a sample dps rotation video using his build, but did not provide a full party speed run example.

Hendo and others claimed to have tested Guang’s build in Arah 2 and said it sucked due to externalities not necessarily related to Guang’s dps (although they claimed his build wasn’t max dps) but related to the nature of speed clearing in general; ie. run speed, the practicality of applying vuln and stealth and other factors Guang may not have taken into account.

Since neither side has really shown practical, encounter-based evidence to support the claim in contention, I’m not really convinced either way. That said, I do agree with Hendo et. al. that the burden of proof is on Guang. I would love to see him show the speed runners up by making his own group and beating their time.

Guang said he doesn’t really have any interest in doing this, so I think the entire exercise/debate is futile.

I r disappoint.

haviz.1340:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

“It should have worked but we botched it.”

By working on paper I meant that it works as everything you do, in vacuum. I’m sorry I wasn’t more specific earlier.

“We accidentally launched the Aboms out of a stack and they wiped us.”

Aboms can easily wipe you when they are being launched out of a stack. Their ranged attack that don’t happen when stacked is an extremely deadly projectile that only the best players in this game can avoid.

I wish I didn’t have to use sarcasm but that’s impossible. It’s not even a theorycrafting folklore anymore.

I’ve never had any problem soloing anything in Arah with engie, apart from maybe Alphard without abusing LOS or reflects. I don’t know why you think Arah needs some kind of special comp for the portions that aren’t straight DPS when the stealth provided by the engie’s smoke blast combo is already more than you need to speed past all the trash that you don’t need to kill.

If it was P3 I’d be inclined to agree since stealth blast doesn’t really work (you need Shadow Refuge) for the spawn at the first gate and the skips after Crusher and Lupi, but this isn’t P3.

Moreover, Engies do just fine in movement with Jump Shot, Acid Bomb, and Rocket Boots. If anyone’s slowing down the group during skips it’d most likely be the eles you seem to be so keen on bringing.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

If anyone’s slowing down the group during skips it’d most likely be the eles [

Please stop.

Does Guang just hate eles or something? :O.

Classist!

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Hendo and others claimed to have tested Guang’s build in Arah 2 and said it sucked due to externalities not necessarily related to Guang’s dps (although they claimed his build wasn’t max dps) but related to the nature of speed clearing in general; ie. run speed, the practicality of applying vuln and stealth and other factors Guang may not have taken into account.

To avoid further misundertandings, we didn’t test engineer potential. We tested his “ideal” team composition for arah p2:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

So ideally you’d probably want to go something like EA warrior, staff ele, DPS-spec rifle/nade engie, reflect-spec mesmer, and Spotter/FS ranger.

which turned out to be kitten.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Does Guang just hate eles or something? :O.

Classist!

He just loves demonstrating his lack of game knowledge is all.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I’ve never had any problem soloing anything in Arah with engie, apart from maybe Alphard without abusing LOS or reflects. I don’t know why you think Arah needs some kind of special comp for the portions that aren’t straight DPS when the stealth provided by the engie’s smoke blast combo is already more than you need to speed past all the trash that you don’t need to kill.

If it was P3 I’d be inclined to agree since stealth blast doesn’t really work (you need Shadow Refuge) for the spawn at the first gate and the skips after Crusher and Lupi, but this isn’t P3.

Moreover, Engies do just fine in movement with Jump Shot, Acid Bomb, and Rocket Boots. If anyone’s slowing down the group during skips it’d most likely be the eles you seem to be so keen on bringing.

What’s so hard to understand that it’s not the issue of difficulty but efficiency?

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

If anyone’s slowing down the group during skips it’d most likely be the eles you seem to be so keen on bringing.

Well, that kinda does it for me.

MRW when I see how much hatred and internet warfare exists on this thread:

http://i.imgur.com/lshYFfN.gif