Guild Wars 2

First of all this is not a rant against meta. Actually I am all for meta, myslef doing speedruns etc. Whoa – not an anti meta post!? SACRILEGE ON THIS FORUM!

Anyway, back to the point. I wan to talk about a completely pointless way of stacking. A way that is so September 2014. I am talking about corner/wall stacking.

We all know that back when FGS (Fiery Greatsword) was used, it was required to stand against a wall or in a corner in order to take full advantage of its skill 4 and 3. However, after the September 2014 nerf the FGS is used no more. Nevertheless, people and mainly PUG’s insist on stacking in corners etc. pointing out it boosts their dps (!!!) or allows for an easier dodge.

The point is that this way of stacking is completely useless in most encounters it was used before the nerf. Yet people think that the corner/wall will spawn some magical voodoo effect that, I don’t know, will rack up their dps up by 50% or make the boss immobile or some other gimmick. What happens is that the corner pulling is done by using up the defiance window on the boss, therefore not allowing to freeze it. It is funny, because many of the so called “Meta Zerk, exp, 5k ap, gearcheck” teams on LFG seems to do that. As an insult to injury when trying to be polite and educate in those matters I many times hapen to be “shooned”:
- “Come here, kill the boss on the spawn point”
- No, CORNER BETTER!
- Seriously, why?
- BECAUSE!
And so on and on. Why corner stacking is pointless. Well there are some classes, thief most noticeable, that take advantage of flanking, which is way harder to impossible to do in the corner. Some boss attacks can be avoided just by strafing – again hardly possible in corners. Also, many corner stacking, as noted above, require pushing the boss towards it using CC wasting a valuable chance to Deep Freeze the kitten. I know that in many cases corners are used to pull the mobs together – its fine then coz we are using clever thinking to kill them faster. However in many cases its sumply pointless.
Here are some examples of copletely worthless stacking:
- AC P1/2/3 – all end bosses – not needed to stack next to the pillar, no fgs anymore guys!
- CoF P1 – Slave Driver – why? Because! People waste a chance to use Deep Freeze
- CoE – Subject Alpha – his pillar attack can be dodged by strafing (not possible in the corner), pushing him towards the wall wastes usefull Deep Freeze oportunity

There are obviously more. Also I would like to point out that many strategies have been changed/updated! When someone tells you to kill some stuff and do something and gives you the REASON for that – try to listen ok? When you are being told to kill the 3 Breeders on AC p3 right before the last boss and the reason is so that Grast doesnt stop on them and goes with you to the boss (it takes like 5 secs?) don’t run straight ahead like a bunch of apes. Also when people talk a bout killing a champ that has been skipped in the past and most of them aggre – don’t be a jerk or use that reading ability and do what the rest of the team is doing – PLEASE!

Last but not least I wasnt to point one thing out. Many times when I asked ppl why do they stack in those corners they come up with a reason: "DnT does that?, or “Nike said so!” No they do not stack and play like PUGS. Believe me that speedruns are on whole different level. However I would like you guys (from DnT, rT or other speedrunning guild) to try to also educate ppl on those matters. Most of Dungeon community look up to you and you seem to set up trends in the way Dungeons are ran so PUGS will listen.

But in the end, to all ppl that think they are great, yet they aren’t: use your brains, try to understand the reason behind different strategies and use that skill of perception of yours! It doesn’t hurt after all… or does it?

Anyway, that will be all! Hang in there folks!

Yours sincerely

eMKay

Corners and walls are still useful as they still concentrate ice bow and meteor shower hits to half it’s normal AoE size. But yes most bosses would be faster to kill on spot but trying to get pugs tp do so is pointless.

And ranting on this forum about pug tactics is rather pointless since most people here are part of a dungeon guild or run in more experienced groups.

i would argue that the corner stack for ac p2 is actually useful (for pugs that is) because if you pull correctly you won’t get any of the bosses ranged aoes on you and that gives you time to set up some reflects and stuff. It also can help people maintain the stack, but yeah a lot of pug tactics are pretty stupid and waste a lot of time especially when you have to pull a boss. Im actually interested in what speed run groups do versus what pugs do. That would be an interesting thing to read/watch about.

ac p2 boss – just pull him with spectral grasp/scorpion wire/magnet/idk and put relfects on. all his attacks are projectiles. ice bow the skritt out of him and done

Why are people corner stacking? Because the same people who are now advocating killing bosses on spawn points have uploaded videos where they have pulled bosses into corners.
It does not matter where you kill the boss, it’s still the same stupidly easy mechanics with slower-than-turtle attacks that are designed to be dodged easily regardless where you stack.
Stacking elsewhere does not make dungeon fights any more fun or engaging.

“LF 3 WARRIORS 1 MESMER 1 ANCHOR GUARDIAN ZERK+ RUBY ORBS 5K AP”
^
This is still a thing as well in pugland. Don’t expect anything from elitists that aren’t even in the elite they are advocating.

AC p2, it’s faster to aggro asap and load traps while kiting then instakill with icebows but pugs can’t really do this so i guess this is fine.

but people stacking alpha when there are thieves in the party, meaning they cant use the best weapon they have. The earth spike cant be negated when inside his circle anymore so I don;t see much point.

Also, apparently people range hotw p1 troll…why? he’s the same as AC troll…so sad.

Mind you these are groups who advertise “zerk, speed/fast run”

It’s like herding sheep.

Arguing with pugs is as pointless, just converge to their tatics and hope you can finish the dungeon in a reasonable time, otherwise create a guild with like minded people.

Pugs don’t understand why they do sth, they watch a video and smash buttons. That’s why I don’t play with pugs.

When I’m on guardian they follow like lemmings and seem bewildered as to what just happened when the things actually die without using a corner stack.

It’s good entertainment, you just need to find some with decent builds and enough intelligence to do as their told without throwing a hissy fit because its not what they’re used to. I think it takes a little more time when trawling the lfgs but can be worth it. You know from some of the adverts which ones are a lost cause ‘heavies only’ etc lol.

Often I see them veer off into the filthy pug stack spots and I just keep running and something clicks and they start following.

Ya I often have a hard time getting pugs to attack the SE path 3 boss directly. They all stack in the corner while I fight the boss alone for like 30sec-1min before they realize something is different.

“Nike said so”

We live stream dungeon tours 7 nights a week. People who want to use me as a reference should watch and see when and where we stack and when and where we don’t.

While I was reading this I was thinking of the molten alliance fractal at the start where you stand/stack and how you can also stand on the spawn location and throw a reflect to achievement the same results and even go a little bit faster.

I will keep an eye and see where else I can do. Thanks for making me think, its funny how you can get suck/used to your own way of doing things and not question it.

sarah

The same fractal, last boss. Some idiots think it is wise and magically effective to knock that kitten boss to the gate. When I asked them, “what’s for?”, they told me to calm down, "It’s just a fractal and we didn’t wipe. We in “[xxx]” always do that". Wow, because… your guild tag means reason?!

Stacking in corners is still usefull. It makes sure no one runs around like a headless chicken. Everyone is in reach of everything and stands in every field. Have a look at some “non stacking bosses” like COF1. Someones dieing? He runs away so you can’t rezz him. Or he’s out of reach of your F2 heal (guard). Lots of people stay on max range, won’t stay behind your wall, will use ranged weapons only even when they are warriors or guardians. 100b will miss if the boss is moving. Warriors can whirl against a wall – they can trigger lightfields to remove conditions or to save a dodge.
You can dodge against the wall which is sometimes usefull.

But most important: it avoids chaos. Everyone knows where to stand, good.
Run in and do some “more experienced stuff” and it will end in a chaos.
PUG tactics: easy to play tactics which are “standard” and everyone knows them.
A fews seconds more doesn’t matter.

J Eberle.9312:

Often I see them veer off into the filthy pug stack spots and I just keep running and something clicks and they start following.

I wish this ever happened to me. Most of the time my pugs stand, stare, write “….” “Pull”, et. until after 30 seconds or so I sigh and decide it’s not worth making a fight over. But then I usually just join whatever random lfg is up at the time so I try to keep my expectations minimal.

You stack for buffs and AOE healing.

Stacking in corners is extremely obnoxious as a thief, meaning it’s almost impossible for me to use D/D, which I don’t really care anymore since D/D isn’t fun but this common strategy made it even less fun.

Some days I go pugging and when some poor nub says stack, I just pull aggro and go in. Everyone else follows and we murder the boss. Pretty sure the poor nub just sits there scratching his heading thing “how did that go so well without stacking?!”

I’ve done some pretty evil things. In COE, ppl still like stacking to the left of the door at the start. I pull the elementals with their V shaped ice attack that 1 shots ppl. I shift myself a bit so the V goes straight through the stack while I’m in the middle of the V. BAM 1 icy pug stack

I like living on the edge and dare them to kick me XD

rfdarko.4639:

J Eberle.9312:

Often I see them veer off into the filthy pug stack spots and I just keep running and something clicks and they start following.

I wish this ever happened to me. Most of the time my pugs stand, stare, write “….” “Pull”, et. until after 30 seconds or so I sigh and decide it’s not worth making a fight over. But then I usually just join whatever random lfg is up at the time so I try to keep my expectations minimal.

I feel ya, sometimes you just gotta establish that alpha male dominance, like my mate here
http://youtu.be/6FVwNE250M8

There’s a lot of ‘live by the sword’ here.

J Eberle.9312:

rfdarko.4639:

J Eberle.9312:

Often I see them veer off into the filthy pug stack spots and I just keep running and something clicks and they start following.

I wish this ever happened to me. Most of the time my pugs stand, stare, write “….” “Pull”, et. until after 30 seconds or so I sigh and decide it’s not worth making a fight over. But then I usually just join whatever random lfg is up at the time so I try to keep my expectations minimal.

I feel ya, sometimes you just gotta establish that alpha male dominance, like my mate here
http://youtu.be/6FVwNE250M8

>taking the clown car head on
>taking the 3 golems head on

I remember back in the day when pugs regularly did this with ease.

Those days are gone now.

I was chuckling after this the other day.

Get to the 3 Golems, “ok gonna do them in the open, gonna pull together and drop a feedback” “ready?” wait a couple seconds, “ok going” Pull them get them all to around half health and they watch me die then rush in and finish them off…

i prefer corner because it maximizes hits from ice bow and meteor (which is quite a lot of dmg) and as engineer i can freely use my knockbacks and stuff (bob, turret, shield) for blasts and not interfere with other peoples rotations. however, on some bosses i prefer to have the freeze. depends on how much time it takes to take down the boss.
f.e. in ac i would never think about any corner since by the time you got him into the corner you could have also killed him.

The only reason that might justify stacking against a wall in coe p1 and p3 (but never in p2), is that pugs never stack tight in the middle and always run around in circles around alpha, and end up eating / causing party to eat the overlapped teeth of mordremoth taking 2x the normal dmg. I believe this is the reason for that “wall is still better than middle” popular pug opinion that I always hear in my runs.

Basically, it’s just like lupi – standing close and still is the key.

My 3 new experiences today:

AC P3 – we approach the last boss directly in the open. A war goes into the corner and starts yelling at us, calling us noobs, ordering to “pack” and whatnot. We kill the boss in couple secs and he proceeds to rub his head how did that happen without stacking…

CM Full – A Cat Guard joins the party. Not untill the 1st boss did we realize it was a Sherman! However, we decided to keep it since we wanted to check out the new Mace Meta! Neverthless the Kitty Sherman proceeded to make our lives miserable by spamming Mace/Staff 1 and ovelapping our Stealth fields… FUN!

Adn the last one – SE P3. Again starring Sherman Guard, this time a Norn Lady. Mace auto – no more. Not only was she offensive by complaining at our “low dps” but… Last boss, I procceed to attack it in the open and the Sherman starts yelling at me. I have found my time, between the dodgeing, strafing (on my ele) and other stuff to survive there alone to ask “why”? The response: “No dmg in the corner and for the little ones”… No ***t no dmg with the Mace auto And by the little ones I guess she was talking about the adds… so what with them? The answer to that will probably be never given

cool
pugs don’t know why they stack, they’re copycats of vids without understanding, what’s new?

Stick this post. Even when you say to dont go to the corner people sometimes just ignore you and split the group…. When pugging sometimes you just agree with them and stack in the corner to avoid long discussion.

I pug a solid 99% of my dungeons and it’s honestly just better to keep doing the stacking/normal pug tactics. If you try to do something more effective/different, you just end up splitting up the group and having people running around with their heads cut off (unless you somehow have a pug that actually talks/reads chat so you can communicate the plan, but good luck with that). They may not be the best/fastest, but they still work and everyone involved will (generally) know what to do.

hybrid.5027:

“Nike said so”

We live stream dungeon tours 7 nights a week. People who want to use me as a reference should watch and see when and where we stack and when and where we don’t.

You guys must have some intense social lives.

Azrael.4960:

Some days I go pugging and when some poor nub says stack, I just pull aggro and go in. Everyone else follows and we murder the boss. Pretty sure the poor nub just sits there scratching his heading thing “how did that go so well without stacking?!”

I’ve done some pretty evil things. In COE, ppl still like stacking to the left of the door at the start. I pull the elementals with their V shaped ice attack that 1 shots ppl. I shift myself a bit so the V goes straight through the stack while I’m in the middle of the V. BAM 1 icy pug stack

I like living on the edge and dare them to kick me XD

Actually, these “V” AoEs are projectiles, if you have a mesmer (and I know because I’m one) ask to stack and as soon as they reach the group pop a Feedback. GG.

Lunar Sunset.8742:

You guys must have some intense social lives.

>50/50 GWAMM x3
>…

rotten.9753:

Lunar Sunset.8742:

You guys must have some intense social lives.

>50/50 GWAMM x3
>…

video game titles are very important! >:(

and if people wanna stack let them, it is just a lil more seconds considering you are being a dirty lil pug of course unless you wanna explain before hand

pandas.9450:

video game titles are very important! >:(

and if people wanna stack let them, it is just a lil more seconds considering you are being a dirty lil pug of course unless you wanna explain before hand

I’m not sure you understood that.

rotten.9753:

pandas.9450:

video game titles are very important! >:(

and if people wanna stack let them, it is just a lil more seconds considering you are being a dirty lil pug of course unless you wanna explain before hand

I’m not sure you understood that.

Probably not

I just love it when I run in with an ice bow 4 starter and some warrior/mesmer pushes the bosses right out of that sweet dps zone >:(

frifox.5283:

The only reason that might justify stacking against a wall in coe p1 and p3 (but never in p2), is that pugs never stack tight in the middle and always run around in circles around alpha, and end up eating / causing party to eat the overlapped teeth of mordremoth taking 2x the normal dmg. I believe this is the reason for that “wall is still better than middle” popular pug opinion that I always hear in my runs.

Basically, it’s just like lupi – standing close and still is the key.

This sounds like something that could be a reason, but I don’t think it’s the actual reason most pugs stack in coe. I think it’s that they don’t understand why people used to stack, and so they do it now because they were taught to.

To be honest, though, it doesn’t bother me much when I pug coe. It’s silly, no doubt, but it doesn’t cost more than a minute or two, spread out over all three paths, so it’s not a battle I feel like picking.

People spent a year shouting at them to do it one way, and now once there’s adoptation, they’re shouting at people to do it another way.

Pugs don’t know you from kitten in the wall, and they have absolutely no reason to believe you know better.

edit ‘hole’ gets censored?

edit2 oh I get it, it’s ‘a’ with that other thing so people can’t cheat with spaces

I think the OP pointed out for some class like theif flanking etc. But for some class like warrior they can WW in to the wall.

I dont’ think there’s right or wrong answer to stacking. It’s mostly about your teammates in pug. I’m not sure what’s the point about arguing stacking or not will make a 5 second difference to your kill.

Take for example SE path 3. Many people now prefer to fight in the open. But I prefer stacking myself in PUG just easier to rez people and group the add together. Even if I play elementalist or engineer I prefer stacking. I just dont’ stand in the stack and let the other take damage.

Corner stacking was never only about FGS dps boost.

It was also about:

1) line of sight pulling multiple mobs who have a ranged attack.

2) Similarly to FGS, taking advantage of the wall to get more dps out of skills that use mobility with potential for multiple attacks (eg warrior GS 3).

rotten.9753:

Lunar Sunset.8742:

You guys must have some intense social lives.

>50/50 GWAMM x3
>…

>Does not understand GW1 and how short it takes a 7 year long veteran of the game to get GWAMM and 50/50.
>Most people have more hours on this game right now than my entire play time in GW1
>so Yeah, intense social lives.

Lunar Sunset.8742:

hybrid.5027:

“Nike said so”

We live stream dungeon tours 7 nights a week. People who want to use me as a reference should watch and see when and where we stack and when and where we don’t.

You guys must have some intense social lives.

It’s not the same people every night

Lunar Sunset.8742:

rotten.9753:

Lunar Sunset.8742:

You guys must have some intense social lives.

>50/50 GWAMM x3
>…

>Does not understand GW1 and how short it takes a 7 year long veteran of the game to get GWAMM and 50/50.
>Most people have more hours on this game right now than my entire play time in GW1
>so Yeah, intense social lives.

Why are you flaming them though? We all play the same game and all have arguably worse social lives than somebody who doesn’t play it… so, wtf.

Purple Miku.7032:

Lunar Sunset.8742:

rotten.9753:

Lunar Sunset.8742:

You guys must have some intense social lives.

>50/50 GWAMM x3
>…

>Does not understand GW1 and how short it takes a 7 year long veteran of the game to get GWAMM and 50/50.
>Most people have more hours on this game right now than my entire play time in GW1
>so Yeah, intense social lives.

Why are you flaming them though? We all play the same game and all have arguably worse social lives than somebody who doesn’t play it… so, wtf.

I’m not “flamming”, you seem more broken up by my 1 comment then I did in any of my posts, so please move along.

Zmodd.5427:

Azrael.4960:

Some days I go pugging and when some poor nub says stack, I just pull aggro and go in. Everyone else follows and we murder the boss. Pretty sure the poor nub just sits there scratching his heading thing “how did that go so well without stacking?!”

I’ve done some pretty evil things. In COE, ppl still like stacking to the left of the door at the start. I pull the elementals with their V shaped ice attack that 1 shots ppl. I shift myself a bit so the V goes straight through the stack while I’m in the middle of the V. BAM 1 icy pug stack

I like living on the edge and dare them to kick me XD

Actually, these “V” AoEs are projectiles, if you have a mesmer (and I know because I’m one) ask to stack and as soon as they reach the group pop a Feedback. GG.

I hate playing mesmers, started one then deleted her to have a space for the Revenant.

Also, asking for the average pug mesmer to know that the V’s are projectiles is asking too much.

Lunar Sunset.8742:

>Does not understand GW1 and how short it takes a 7 year long veteran of the game to get GWAMM and 50/50.
>Most people have more hours on this game right now than my entire play time in GW1
>so Yeah, intense social lives.

Getting it once wasn’t short though, thrice was probably a nightmare for a normal player. I don’t have gwamm because getting it would have worsened my social life. Plus, pvp was much more fun than vanquishing Tyria (multiple times) with not-so-social heroes and henchmen.

I don’t have a social life and it’s the best thing I’ve ever done. What now? huh?
WHAT NOW O_O

I already said that here, but I still don’t get the ad hominem of " you have no life". If you don’t, you probably don’t care, so it’s pointless, and if you do, you probably don’t care about someone saying you don’t as well, so..

Well, it’s not like ad hominem are supposed to be useful and well thought in the first place.

Rez.8016:

Corner stacking was never only about FGS dps boost.

It was also about:

1) line of sight pulling multiple mobs who have a ranged attack.

2) Similarly to FGS, taking advantage of the wall to get more dps out of skills that use mobility with potential for multiple attacks (eg warrior GS 3).

Yes and? FGS was the reason its always good to corner a boss, it was the biggest reason.

1) This still apply. Corner stacking still exist it this situation. Even if in some, its even better to run to the boss and cc them together. But corner is easier for pugs, which is ok.

2) Ya when we used to take 4 warriors in a run. Now it help a little with meteor shower, but it’s often better to don’t corner mobs for that reason.

There are still reason to corner, but in most fight there is no reason for doing so. Its just an old habit that ppl can’t get rid off.

You know now I think about it…
If one has no life, they are probably dead.