Guild Wars 2

pdavis.8031:

But all that aside, I have nothing against beserkers and those who like that play style. It’s not for me. I will own my build and defend it, but I won’t push it upon others, and claim that beserker is wrong, an exploit, or broken.

But isn’t that exactly what you would accomplish by dissolving the zerker meta? Perhaps not letter by letter, bur rather than pushing your build into others, you would push others away from a build they like playing.

pdavis.8031:

As far as threads? I’ve seen several of both, more cleric than beserker. However, In threads regarding new players and builds, they are almost always directed to beserker, with maybe a small footnote of play how you want, but that beserker is best.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Wanting-suggestions-for-build
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Help-with-new-warrior

Just a couple of examples.

Oh, but you’re conveniently ignoring the fact that both posters asked for advice on their own, and that the posters merely limited themselves to provide it. No one’s being pushed to wear anything or run any build, they are just given the facts and left to decide on their own.

@fenrir and Maha (as you both pretty much said the same thing)

Yes advice was asked for and given constructively and without berating, but the point I was trying to convey was that beserker is reccomended more then other builds. Yes beserker is the highest DPS, and survivability is rendered obsolete by active defense mechanisms, and those responses made that clear. But as a new player trying to find what gear/build to use, being presented largely by beserker, and the play style that accompanies it, it would appear that beserker is the only option, and imply (to them, not by the ones reccommending it) that anything else is bad.

As far as dissolving the beserker meta, I am against it. I suggested working with the combat mechanics in general to allow for other builds to be more useful. And stated clearly, don’t nerf beserker, don’t buff bosses to eliminate a need for beserker, don’t buff other builds to make beserker less than optimal, just change the way the mechanics work to allow for other builds to be more effective. (I would point to condition builds as an example of broken mechanics.)

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I think I saw it but I know I could never do that song justice <\3

WTB duet on Bohemian Rhapsody with Lilith.

@Maha

I know we’ve both been in many of the same threads, along the same topic of “beserker vs non beserker”. Although we stand on different sides of the issue, I think we can agree that Beserker doesn’t need a nerf, should not be changed, “fixed”, etc. I too believe that those against beserker LFGs and getting kicked/flamed for joining those groups while not in beserker should stay out of those same groups. Moreover I also agree that beserkers are not always at fault for raging on the forums, but the non beserkers can take a chill pill and let zerkers be as well.

I actually look forward to discussions about such things with you :P Its clear we both feel strongly about our respective builds/playstyle, but often times it’s OT from the thread :P

pdavis.8031:

@fenrir and Maha (as you both pretty much said the same thing)

Yes advice was asked for and given constructively and without berating, but the point I was trying to convey was that beserker is reccomended more then other builds. Yes beserker is the highest DPS, and survivability is rendered obsolete by active defense mechanisms, and those responses made that clear. But as a new player trying to find what gear/build to use, being presented largely by beserker, and the play style that accompanies it, it would appear that beserker is the only option, and imply (to them, not by the ones reccommending it) that anything else is bad.

As far as dissolving the beserker meta, I am against it. I suggested working with the combat mechanics in general to allow for other builds to be more useful. And stated clearly, don’t nerf beserker, don’t buff bosses to eliminate a need for beserker, don’t buff other builds to make beserker less than optimal, just change the way the mechanics work to allow for other builds to be more effective. (I would point to condition builds as an example of broken mechanics.)

This was said before, but anyways. Zerker is not a build, it’s a gear set. There’s no gear variety in PvE, but there’s plenty of skill and trait diversity for most classes.

The classical examples are the EA Warrior (and recently PS variant) and meta Guardian, which provide better party buffs/active defenses than the max self-DPS builds.

Condition builds are very effective in a solo situation, although only for a few classes.

Lucas.9157:

pdavis.8031:

@fenrir and Maha (as you both pretty much said the same thing)

Yes advice was asked for and given constructively and without berating, but the point I was trying to convey was that beserker is reccomended more then other builds. Yes beserker is the highest DPS, and survivability is rendered obsolete by active defense mechanisms, and those responses made that clear. But as a new player trying to find what gear/build to use, being presented largely by beserker, and the play style that accompanies it, it would appear that beserker is the only option, and imply (to them, not by the ones reccommending it) that anything else is bad.

As far as dissolving the beserker meta, I am against it. I suggested working with the combat mechanics in general to allow for other builds to be more useful. And stated clearly, don’t nerf beserker, don’t buff bosses to eliminate a need for beserker, don’t buff other builds to make beserker less than optimal, just change the way the mechanics work to allow for other builds to be more effective. (I would point to condition builds as an example of broken mechanics.)

This was said before, but anyways. Zerker is not a build, it’s a gear set. There’s no gear variety in PvE, but there’s plenty of skill and trait diversity for most classes.

The classical examples are the EA Warrior (and recently PS variant) and meta Guardian, which provide better party buffs/active defenses than the max self-DPS builds.

Condition builds are very effective in a solo situation, although only for a few classes.

zerker gear and zerker build, it’s really just semantics at this point, as almost everyone agrees that a zerker “build” includes the use of beserker gear, but also utilizes the traits and skills to compliment that gear set.

And yes while conditions are very effective solo, they become next to useless in groups as newly applied incidental conditions will overwrite older applied conditions, even if the older ones do more DPS. But thats a whole diffrent discussion.

Actually, that’s wrong.
Traits usually enhance a weapon type, an ability or add an extra effect to it.
Mesmers, for example, go somewhat deep in Inspiration to get Warden’s Feedback. Each trait point in that branch grants the Mesmer 50 Vit and 50 Healing Power.
You wouldn’t argue that Vitality and Healing Power increases DPS, would you? Of course not, it’s about Utility.

Guardians’ Honor branch does that too, yet many Guards clad in Berserker gear spend points in it.

Traits and weapon combinations determine your playstyle; their stats complement it.

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Actually, that’s wrong.
Traits usually enhance a weapon type, an ability or add an extra effect to it.
Mesmers, for example, go somewhat deep in Inspiration to get Warden’s Feedback. Each trait point in that branch grants the Mesmer 50 Vit and 50 Healing Power.
You wouldn’t argue that Vitality and Healing Power increases DPS, would you? Of course not, it’s about Utility.

Guardians’ Honor branch does that too, yet many Guards clad in Berserker gear spend points in it.

Traits and weapon combinations determine your playstyle; their stats complement it.

While this is true, a “build” includes armor, weapons, trinkets, traits, and utilities (skills). “Gear” includes armor, weapons, and trinkets. So for a traditional DPS beresker build, one would (presumably) need beserker gear (beserker stats armor/weapons/trinkets); A trait set up of 6/6/0/0/2 (or similiar) with the various traits complimenting their weapons of choice (i.e. forceful greatsword, slashing power, etc. if using a GS)

So while there is a technical distinction between a build and gear, the term “zerker build” or “soldier build” generally refers to the gear and the traits being used, and is often used interchangably with each other.

edit: not the terms beserker or soldiers, but rather the terms for gear and build and traits.

pdavis.8031:

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Actually, that’s wrong.
Traits usually enhance a weapon type, an ability or add an extra effect to it.
Mesmers, for example, go somewhat deep in Inspiration to get Warden’s Feedback. Each trait point in that branch grants the Mesmer 50 Vit and 50 Healing Power.
You wouldn’t argue that Vitality and Healing Power increases DPS, would you? Of course not, it’s about Utility.

Guardians’ Honor branch does that too, yet many Guards clad in Berserker gear spend points in it.

Traits and weapon combinations determine your playstyle; their stats complement it.

While this is true, a “build” includes armor, weapons, trinkets, traits, and utilities (skills). “Gear” includes armor, weapons, and trinkets. So for a traditional DPS beresker build, one would (presumably) need beserker gear (beserker stats armor/weapons/trinkets); A trait set up of 6/6/0/0/2 (or similiar) with the various traits complimenting their weapons of choice (i.e. forceful greatsword, slashing power, etc. if using a GS)

So while there is a technical distinction between a build and gear, the term “zerker build” or “soldier build” generally refers to the gear and the traits being used, and is often used interchangably with each other.

Yes, but the point is that no one runs 6/6/0/0/2 for guardians, for example. Even for warriors 4/6/0/4/0 is common in organized groups. Neither of these are the maximum “personal” DPS, but instead sacrifice damage for useful group utility. That’s where diversity lies in this game— do you want hammer guard for more defense, or s/f+gs for more damage and different utility? Do you sacrifice damage as an elementalist so you can might stack better for your team (6/6/0/0/2 is not the maximum DPS build for an ele, it’s the best might-stacking build!). You can continue to pretend to not hear us, but already half a dozen people have told you: there are many different builds which all use berserker (or assassin’s) gear.

Wearing berserker gear just says you’re ready to play hard-mode: no passive defense. Choosing your class, weapons, and traits after that are how you determine your role and play-style.

maxinion.8396:

Yes, but the point is that no one runs 6/6/0/0/2 for guardians, for example. Even for warriors 4/6/0/4/0 is common in organized groups. Neither of these are the maximum “personal” DPS, but instead sacrifice damage for useful group utility. That’s where diversity lies in this game— do you want hammer guard for more defense, or s/f+gs for more damage and different utility? Do you sacrifice damage as an elementalist so you can might stack better for your team (6/6/0/0/2 is not the maximum DPS build for an ele, it’s the best might-stacking build!). You can continue to pretend to not hear us, but already half a dozen people have told you: there are many different builds which all use berserker (or assassin’s) gear.

Wearing berserker gear just says you’re ready to play hard-mode: no passive defense. Choosing your class, weapons, and traits after that are how you determine your role and play-style.

I just through out those numbers as an example. Of course it depends of your profession, weapon sets, whatever. I am agreeing that there are many different builds that use beserker gear. All I am saying is that the common use of the term “X build” relys on a mix of X gear and Y traits and is lumped into the idea that X gear and Y traits is what makes “X build.”

For an example 2 players, “John” and “Bill” are both using what is refered to as a “beserker build” Both are warriors. John traits something along the lines of 6/6/0/0/2 while using a full set of beserker gear (armor/weapons/trinkets). Bill decided to trait 3/5/0/6/0 also using a full set of beserker gear (armor/weapons/trinkets). Now both “builds” use the same gear but different traits, both of them are generally refered to as “beserker builds”

however this is widely OT and might get the thread shut down :/

Back on topic: Nothing wrong with “beserkers” don’t need to dissolve it.

2 years from now there will be posts about fixing the bunker meta that plagues pve dungeons since devs actually listened to this guy.

pdavis.8031:

maxinion.8396:

Yes, but the point is that no one runs 6/6/0/0/2 for guardians, for example. Even for warriors 4/6/0/4/0 is common in organized groups. Neither of these are the maximum “personal” DPS, but instead sacrifice damage for useful group utility. That’s where diversity lies in this game— do you want hammer guard for more defense, or s/f+gs for more damage and different utility? Do you sacrifice damage as an elementalist so you can might stack better for your team (6/6/0/0/2 is not the maximum DPS build for an ele, it’s the best might-stacking build!). You can continue to pretend to not hear us, but already half a dozen people have told you: there are many different builds which all use berserker (or assassin’s) gear.

Wearing berserker gear just says you’re ready to play hard-mode: no passive defense. Choosing your class, weapons, and traits after that are how you determine your role and play-style.

I just through out those numbers as an example. Of course it depends of your profession, weapon sets, whatever. I am agreeing that there are many different builds that use beserker gear. All I am saying is that the common use of the term “X build” relys on a mix of X gear and Y traits and is lumped into the idea that X gear and Y traits is what makes “X build.”

For an example 2 players, “John” and “Bill” are both using what is refered to as a “beserker build” Both are warriors. John traits something along the lines of 6/6/0/0/2 while using a full set of beserker gear (armor/weapons/trinkets). Bill decided to trait 3/5/0/6/0 also using a full set of beserker gear (armor/weapons/trinkets). Now both “builds” use the same gear but different traits, both of them are generally refered to as “beserker builds”

however this is widely OT and might get the thread shut down :/

Back on topic: Nothing wrong with “beserkers” don’t need to dissolve it.

Then, if both players were wearing Cleric’s, would it be appropriate to call their builds Cleric build, or call them Knight build if they were clad in Knight’s?
The generic term for builds where trait points are predominantly spent on offensive branches would be damage-oriented builds, whereas others are usually referred as utility (again with the mesmer that favors Inspiration for extra reflects).

Meta builds is a term that’s correctly employed, but not Berserker builds.

I agree that there’s not much variety when it comes go gear, but there is actually some diversity when it comes to traits and weapons, save for some professions.

Yes thats essentially what im saying. Just do a google search: gw2 (insert whatever) build youll find various results with various trait allocations, but fall under beserker build, (or cleric, soldiers, etc.)

I understand that a build is more than just the gear, but it seems that labeling it according to the gear set (I.e beserker gs build) is a common naming convention. Thats all I was trying to say. It would also appear the naming convention differs according to varipus groups as well.

Berserker gear doesn’t define a build, it’s simply the best option for damage output.
Weapons traits and utilities are way more important.

In other MMO’s, builds and the gear sets exclusive to those builds are called the same thing. There’s tank gear, healing gear and DPS gear. There may be some variations in some games, like dodge tank gear, or physical/spell DPS gear. Because they’re used to thinking this way, people continue to think this way. ANet enabled this perception’s migration to GW2 with their selling point of a GW2 “replacement trinity.”

Lilith’s right. There is a tremendous amount of leeway in GW2 with regard to “gear as you like.” Most suggestions to “fix” the non-problem of glass gear amount to remove gear choices for everyone, not just glass wearers. Some proposals, like the OP’s, consist of contrived mechanics that “target” a specific gear choice. These proposals are just bad design. Improved encounter mechanics are one thing, but, “Let’s punish a specific gear choice” would not be an improved mechanic. It would be a sop to people who cannot let go of the old paradigms.

IndigoSundown.5419:

In other MMO’s, builds and the gear sets exclusive to those builds are called the same thing. There’s tank gear, healing gear and DPS gear. There may be some variations in some games, like dodge tank gear, or physical/spell DPS gear. Because they’re used to thinking this way, people continue to think this way. ANet enabled this perception’s migration to GW2 with their selling point of a GW2 “replacement trinity.”

Lilith’s right. There is a tremendous amount of leeway in GW2 with regard to “gear as you like.” Most suggestions to “fix” the non-problem of glass gear amount to remove gear choices for everyone, not just glass wearers. Some proposals, like the OP’s, consist of contrived mechanics that “target” a specific gear choice. These proposals are just bad design. Improved encounter mechanics are one thing, but, “Let’s punish a specific gear choice” would not be an improved mechanic. It would be a sop to people who cannot let go of the old paradigms.

Last February sometime:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Fun fact: Lilith is always right.

Buahahaha

IndigoSundown.5419:

In other MMO’s, builds and the gear sets exclusive to those builds are called the same thing. There’s tank gear, healing gear and DPS gear. There may be some variations in some games, like dodge tank gear, or physical/spell DPS gear. Because they’re used to thinking this way, people continue to think this way. ANet enabled this perception’s migration to GW2 with their selling point of a GW2 “replacement trinity.”

Lilith’s right. There is a tremendous amount of leeway in GW2 with regard to “gear as you like.” Most suggestions to “fix” the non-problem of glass gear amount to remove gear choices for everyone, not just glass wearers. Some proposals, like the OP’s, consist of contrived mechanics that “target” a specific gear choice. These proposals are just bad design. Improved encounter mechanics are one thing, but, “Let’s punish a specific gear choice” would not be an improved mechanic. It would be a sop to people who cannot let go of the old paradigms.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/think_logically.png

Everytime this thread comes up, this picture should be linked and the thread closed.

pdavis.8031:

Yes thats essentially what im saying. Just do a google search: gw2 (insert whatever) build youll find various results with various trait allocations, but fall under beserker build, (or cleric, soldiers, etc.)

I understand that a build is more than just the gear, but it seems that labeling it according to the gear set (I.e beserker gs build) is a common naming convention. Thats all I was trying to say. It would also appear the naming convention differs according to varipus groups as well.

A common convention among people who don’t know kitten about builds. The same people that flood these forums about nerfing berserkers and removing dodges and adding RNG/unavoidable damage.

The same people who don’t know kitten about how the game works and don’t give a kitten enough to learn.

Berserker’s is a gear set. That. Is. It. If someone was running 0/0/6/6/2 but wearing a Berserker’s set, they are not using a “#zerkexploitbuild”.

Traits + Skills + Gear = Build

Saint.5647:

pdavis.8031:

Yes thats essentially what im saying. Just do a google search: gw2 (insert whatever) build youll find various results with various trait allocations, but fall under beserker build, (or cleric, soldiers, etc.)

I understand that a build is more than just the gear, but it seems that labeling it according to the gear set (I.e beserker gs build) is a common naming convention. Thats all I was trying to say. It would also appear the naming convention differs according to varipus groups as well.

A common convention among people who don’t know kitten about builds. The same people that flood these forums about nerfing berserkers and removing dodges and adding RNG/unavoidable damage.

The same people who don’t know kitten about how the game works and don’t give a kitten enough to learn.

Berserker’s is a gear set. That. Is. It. If someone was running 0/0/6/6/2 but wearing a Berserker’s set, they are not using a “#zerkexploitbuild”.

Traits + Skills + Gear = Build

If you’re running 0/0/6/6/2 in Zerk, you’ll get kicked just as fast as a bearbow in cleric’s if someone notices. Least that’s the case with most classes. Asside from some select utility niches it’s pretty much 6/6/0/0/2 or go home.

I’m wondering which classes would use 6/6/0/0/2 besides Thief, Engi and a very rare occasion of Mesmer.

I think people give Berserker too much credits, the biggest part of the damage comes from using useful traits with the good weapons.

Take a look at this chart (this was pre-ferocity though) http://s27.postimg.org/nf571pco3/guarddps.jpg

You can see someone wearing full valkyrie or full knight doing about 75% of the full Berserker DPS for about double the Effective HP. Sure if you go for full soldier you’re at about 55-60% but now you get triple the Effective HP.

Also take note the builds are not made for maximum Damage output but rather for utilities, Blind on demand, Fast Wall of Reflection, Faster Condition cleanse, More Aegis, greatsword pull. Now someone using a 0/0/6/6/2 no matter what gear he is wearing, most of his heal from AH are selfish, his condition cleanse are bound to his shout (using shout to condi cleanse instead of using it for the boon), he will most likely not hold aggro because mob often go for low HP.

The Berserker meta is only people asking players to be team player rather than selfish.
If you can guarantee me that you can hold aggro 90%+ time with your Bunker build, I’ll take you in my team for fractal any day, but that doesn’t happen, because AI take in consideration, HP, Endurance, Proximity, Damage, Toughness, and more.

Iris Ng.9845:

I’m wondering which classes would use 6/6/0/0/2 besides Thief, Engi and a very rare occasion of Mesmer.

Warrior!

But won’t fast hand be better?

Iris Ng.9845:

But won’t fast hand be better?

With some of the available variations to builds. (( see build diversity!!!! )

it you can actually get away with Great sword camping. So fast hands becomes un needed.

0.o
builds specifically for twilight/sunrise/eternity
0.o

I see what de did der!!!!

Necro would use 6/6/0/0/2 if it existed. Sadly it was erased from the game.

There is about 6-7 K dmg different in HB between the Classic Fast Hand build and Phalanx Strength :p

PS is rather useless in open world, imo.

Iris Ng.9845:

There is about 6-7 K dmg different in HB between the Classic Fast Hand build and Phalanx Strength :p

PS is rather useless in open world, imo.

in a PUG dungeon that 6-7 k dps is quickly mitigated by having constant full stacks of might on everyone. 0.30.10.30.0 or 10.30.0.30.0

Saint.5647:

pdavis.8031:

Yes thats essentially what im saying. Just do a google search: gw2 (insert whatever) build youll find various results with various trait allocations, but fall under beserker build, (or cleric, soldiers, etc.)

I understand that a build is more than just the gear, but it seems that labeling it according to the gear set (I.e beserker gs build) is a common naming convention. Thats all I was trying to say. It would also appear the naming convention differs according to varipus groups as well.

A common convention among people who don’t know kitten about builds. The same people that flood these forums about nerfing berserkers and removing dodges and adding RNG/unavoidable damage.

The same people who don’t know kitten about how the game works and don’t give a kitten enough to learn.

Berserker’s is a gear set. That. Is. It. If someone was running 0/0/6/6/2 but wearing a Berserker’s set, they are not using a “#zerkexploitbuild”.

Traits + Skills + Gear = Build

Exactly. I agree. As much as I dont care for beserker gear/builds, I still find it frustrating to see these threads. Nothings wrong with beserkers, if you don’t like, dont use and dont join “zerk only” LFGs. But thats too much, and somehow excludes them from “playing how I want” (which doesnt really make any sense at all)

Dual.8953:

Saint.5647:

pdavis.8031:

Yes thats essentially what im saying. Just do a google search: gw2 (insert whatever) build youll find various results with various trait allocations, but fall under beserker build, (or cleric, soldiers, etc.)

I understand that a build is more than just the gear, but it seems that labeling it according to the gear set (I.e beserker gs build) is a common naming convention. Thats all I was trying to say. It would also appear the naming convention differs according to varipus groups as well.

A common convention among people who don’t know kitten about builds. The same people that flood these forums about nerfing berserkers and removing dodges and adding RNG/unavoidable damage.

The same people who don’t know kitten about how the game works and don’t give a kitten enough to learn.

Berserker’s is a gear set. That. Is. It. If someone was running 0/0/6/6/2 but wearing a Berserker’s set, they are not using a “#zerkexploitbuild”.

Traits + Skills + Gear = Build

If you’re running 0/0/6/6/2 in Zerk, you’ll get kicked just as fast as a bearbow in cleric’s if someone notices. Least that’s the case with most classes. Asside from some select utility niches it’s pretty much 6/6/0/0/2 or go home.

What are you on about man? That’s what I just said.

I’ve been following this thread for a while and I’m seriously confused. I don’t understand what you’re all on about, yeah.

deSade.9437:

I’ve been following this thread for a while and I’m seriously confused. I don’t understand what you’re all on about, yeah.

It got derailed with a discussion about what a “zerker build” actually was and the technical term vs the commonly used term for “zerker build”. All while not reading the previous posts on the matter, which led to further discussion and more confusion.

Basically dont hate on those who prefer beserker gear and a DPS favored trait and skill set, it doesnt need to be nerfed.

Wow
I wasn’t aware of how much love people show for the dodge rolling against the wall and the “everyone stand in the corner and press 3”. I don’t want to tell anyone how to play. I wish that we are able to make an actual creative choice instead calculating the right answer.

If people run zerker, thats perfectly fine with me but they shouldn’t do it because they copied a PvE warrior from the internet so they can picture themselves as the “Play 2 Winners” and the “Crème de la PvE” and have attitudes against Bearbow Rangers.

We have all of these choices but people repeatedly try to reduce this variety to yet another means of determine the “elite” of players. Yet another group of players creating a hierarchy just to position themselves on top of it. I don’t have anything against zerkers, but I utterly despise this mindset. And I want the bad builds to be buffed just to see the wonder and surprises of a fantasy game return.

A few days ago I went CoE with a PUG. Two of them were zerk warriors, actually nice people dishing out a multiple of my damage. Then for some reason, the ele of our group went afk in the wrong instant and we decided to fight the risen abomination. Since this fight relies quiet a bit on evasion and positioning and doesn’t allow for much stacking, the two warriors along with the guardian were completely overwhelmed, dying in the first Minute of the battle. Me and the ele died too after another 5 Minutes of fighting. This happened 3 times in a row until we finally beat it.

I’m afraid a lot of the dungeon farmers have unlearned 2 play because of the “expected” way a dungeon has to be run. A lot of the anger about things starting to change comes from the fear of GW2 returning to the old state where dungeons were actually hard and an AC great sword was an accomplishment. And quiet a few players couldn’t cope with that. I guess these are those players who enter Eternal Battlegrounds with a shiny Sunrise but don’t get a single hit on me after their corner tactic failed. I don’t finish these people, I just stand there and stare in disbelief until I turn around and leave.

doesn’t allow much for stacking? you pull it in to a corner, dodge/side step the swings and dodge out the way of the charge

we did this like 2 days ago in some trashy 4 warrior 1 guardian comp with terrible dps

Aww you’re going to hurt its feelings. AC great sword an accomplishment. Sorta like Combat Healer title is an accomplishment?

p.s I always love stories where they say the Berserkers are dead and they live atleast yours has originality and you say you died 5 mins later. A question In those five minutes did you actually think you could win or were you just trolling the downed players by dancing around until death?

DonQuack.9025:

A question In those five minutes did you actually think you could win or were you just trolling the downed players by dancing around until death?

Mostly me and the ele boxed it down to below 50%. But yea, couldve been trolling as well since the three dead players kept demanding us to “die already”.

Oh well at-least you trolled. Hopefully they will suffer an emotional breakdown and finally stop pugging.

DonQuack.9025:

Oh well at-least you trolled. Hopefully they will suffer an emotional breakdown and finally stop pugging.

Totally. OR they start caring about positioning, adapt to different situations and start trying to keep themselves alive.

I need gold more than I need to carry people.
http://postimg.org/image/69gemn7op/

Though to be fair yes. They do need to care about positioning and adapting to different situations. Though in a moment of introspection It doesnt appear like you adapted to their situation.

I will disagree on the trying to keep themselves alive though. One of the main draws for berserker is the survivability.When In A Full Berserker Group

And this is from a ex AH “WAAAHHH LOOK AT DEM HEAAALLLLLSSS” guardian. The diff between my AH guard and my Berserker guard is this. My AH guard lasted for quite some time then died whilst not killing anything whilst my berserker guardian lasts for quite some time and kills things resulting in her usually not dying.

Miroe.2054:

Wow
I wasn’t aware of how much love people show for the dodge rolling against the wall and the “everyone stand in the corner and press 3”. I don’t want to tell anyone how to play. I wish that we are able to make an actual creative choice instead calculating the right answer.

That a thing man. We don’t like stacking and press 3. But that’s not what we are doing. We’ll make sure we aggro the boss at the right time wihtout LOS, in the right position, we’ll time our might stacking so we are ready just as the boss arrive, some boss will need to give reflect, other stability, other will need the guardian to go through all his mitigation skills in the right order while he’s keeping an eye on the blind and aegis to pop them at the right moment, some will need the ele to use an arcane shield, some need some timing for dodging, some need to know what your doing while aggroing the boss, etc. Most of the time, its not just stack and skill 3. Stacking can be nice if it need you to do something. Stacking is a creative strategy by its own. Who find out that hey man, its better to play that way. First time i talked about it to my guild, they we all doudting me, saying that i’m a freaking idiot. But then i explained myself and some of them say, hey that’s make sense, lets try it. We died a couple of times, but we got the hang of it. Stacking was a creative strategy once, its just became the norm and not the exception. Stacking is not a issue for me. Its nice, but boss mechanic allow for it to become the answer 80% of the time, and on several occasion you don’t need to do much during the stack. But if stacking would only work on some occasion and would be challenging to survive in it, that would be nice.

Miroe.2054:

If people run zerker, thats perfectly fine with me but they shouldn’t do it because they copied a PvE warrior from the internet so they can picture themselves as the “Play 2 Winners” and the “Crème de la PvE” and have attitudes against Bearbow Rangers.

We have all of these choices but people repeatedly try to reduce this variety to yet another means of determine the “elite” of players. Yet another group of players creating a hierarchy just to position themselves on top of it. I don’t have anything against zerkers, but I utterly despise this mindset. And I want the bad builds to be buffed just to see the wonder and surprises of a fantasy game return.
.

Your right that some ppl are like that. But we didn’t created the best way to play the game just to create a hierarchy. Its simply a couple of dudes that try to find the best way they can with the information that they have, which some time turn out to be wrong. Then several group of dudes find that they all come out with the same answer and they post it on the internet, where even more dudes talk about the strength and weakness of these build. In the end, the community in general will see some build as more powerful. Now ya, some ppl will just copy paste a build and go with it. And there is nothing wrong with that. Its not because you didn’t create a new build that there is no value in it. That doesn’t mean that everybody should only use build on the internet, build change and get better over time as more ppl explore new option.

And if you buff ‘’bad build’’ and they become the new good build. Then a lot of ppl will simply use those and a bunch of zerker guys will whine on the forum about those elistist soldier build guys that created a hierarchy about their superior build.

Miroe.2054:

DonQuack.9025:

Oh well at-least you trolled. Hopefully they will suffer an emotional breakdown and finally stop pugging.

Totally. OR they start caring about positioning, adapt to different situations and start trying to keep themselves alive.

The suggestion is mainly some stat adjustment or buff (which changes variables just like stats). This is not a good suggestion because it’s a tiny band aid that wants to attach a severed limb.

Anet knows how to make gameplay more interesting which is simply putting some sort of a brain inside mobs’ head, they just choose not to because it doesn’t financially affect them. Why spend money if the projected returns aren’t really that high. WHEN they ever feel like doing it, expect them to go really slow about it and be filled with bugs (as with their track record).

Fluid adaptability in situations, positioning, and general dynamic combat as conceptualized can’t really exist unless enemies reciprocate.

Bread.7516:

Fluid adaptability in situations, positioning, and general dynamic combat as conceptualized can’t really exist unless enemies reciprocate.

Which they cant*.

Miroe.2054:

DonQuack.9025:

Oh well at-least you trolled. Hopefully they will suffer an emotional breakdown and finally stop pugging.

Totally. OR they start caring about positioning, adapt to different situations and start trying to keep themselves alive.

Actually on thinking about it. No they just need to stop pugging.
When Im not pugging Im typically 2manning attempting solo’s aka doing the above in more of a high risk environment than what you say. That also drastically improves any pugging activities so when the group wipes I could lol and spend the next 10mins slowly whitling the boss down as they beg me to die. Then I can say “Skrub L2P” Then they will come to forums and say “zerker meta needs to be dissolved”

atleast that is my fantasy. Im not pro yet….

Thumbs up! Good post.
I saw a lot of good use of skills when I wen with a guild group. Back in the days when I first did Arah with my guildies and TS I learned a lot. Higher level Fractals have gorgeous boss fights with a lot of positioning. I totally see how skill choice have evolved over time to match the challenge. How better tactics establish themselves.

But thats not, whats happening right here. Generic stack and burst is used literally everywhere: Whenever theres a pull theres always that one guy standing in a corner “all stack here”. And the next 2 Minutes my screen is a clipping flashing mess of graphic effects. Done, next corner.

I don’t want there to be the next broken build, I would like to see builds to be elevated to around the same level so nobody has an actual reason to be annoyed about the thief using short bow only. It should be in everyones interest that more builds become viable in PvE since it increases the overall effectivity in PUGs and people don’t stick with the same FOO strategy wherever they can.

So everything should just be equally as efficient?

Doesn’t that kind of kill the point of “optimisation” if everything is the same?

Ya i don’t want everything to be equal. Everything must have a place ya, but not everything equal. Guardian for exemple.

Mace Shield is good in PvP,
Sword, Focus is good in PvE
Staff if good in WvW
While GS and Hammer are good everywhere.

Everything have its place .

Same thing with gear. Soldier is not good in PvE? So what, its freaking awesome in WvW. Healing Power is bad, but not in sPvP. Condition Dmg is useless in dungeon? But powerful in small PvP or solo.

Now, I already said it several time. They could bring more diversity in gear for pve.
- Condition dmg should be good in Dungeon
- We should have support gear that is usefull. Meta build use support in their trait, gear should also (i’m talking about condi duration, boon duration and other thing like that, not healing or tankiness).

But range weapons and tanky gear is in a good place right now. They are good in PvP and are only second rate stuff in PvE for ppl learning or casual that just want a easier gameplay. I don’t see why that need to change.

maha.7902:

Doesn’t that kind of kill the point of “optimisation” if everything is the same?

First off, it is impossible to make everything exactly as viable. So no, communism is not coming for you. Second, even if things are equally useful, the functionality is still different, and your preferences rely on taste rather than math capability. So optimization happens horizontally.

Things will never equally be useful. Let’s say ANet decided to give every weapon the same amount of damage (so pewpewing with a rifle is on par to whacking a boss with a greatsword), people will just take whatever set has the most utility. A warrior would sit on longbow because it has an on-demand fire field and blast finisher, thieves will camp shortbow for spammable blast finisher. So you end up now with people still not liking certain weapon sets despite them all dealing identical damage.

I don’t see how what you want would solve anything, you would still have weapon favouritism, and your can’t homogenise builds (traits) because then we literally might as well just remove them since they all function at the same capacity anyway.

maha.7902:

Things will never equally be useful. Let’s say ANet decided to give every weapon the same amount of damage (so pewpewing with a rifle is on par to whacking a boss with a greatsword), people will just take whatever set has the most utility. A warrior would sit on longbow because it has an on-demand fire field and blast finisher, thieves will camp shortbow for spammable blast finisher. So you end up now with people still not liking certain weapon sets despite them all dealing identical damage.

I don’t see how what you want would solve anything, you would still have weapon favouritism, and your can’t homogenise builds (traits) because then we literally might as well just remove them since they all function at the same capacity anyway.

The weapon with the superior utility deals a little less damage. Not so much less that people deem it useless, but so much that it outweighs the better utility. Imagine short bow getting +1 damage, good enough to use? If no, repeat process until you’re not sure anymore. And there we are.

Of course we have weapon favoritism, but not because one is strictly better. But rather because you… and this is going to seem insane… because you like it. The space of viability is so narrow at the moment, that entire classes are excluded.

PLSSS….
All professions are viable
All Professions are not equally viable
All Professions are not equally viable for current “speed clears”
All professions can complete dungeon/fotm content.
All professions could do it before
All professions can do it now
Berserker can do it.
Cleric can do it.
PVT can do it.
Naked can do it.*

What exactly is the problem other than “So BALLER IPHIW but not BALLER enough make my own group”?

*citation needed

But that is exactly how it is now. Certain weapons are dps losses but because of the utility we may use them – take for example focus on mesmer, the phantasm has average DPS but it offers projectile reflection and mob positioning. Warriors may use axe/warhorn because you may might stack directly on a boss and need the blast finisher so as opposed to the vuln from off-hand mace. Scepter is more DPS on guardian but sword has projectile absorption and blind (which also causes vuln if traited). Eles have weapon sets with better might stacking but worse DPS, worse might stacking but better DPS, higher DPS but reliant on fire fields from external sources and so forth.

Having weapon favouritism because you “like it” literally sounds like the worst idea I have ever seen and just sounds like you want to run whatever the hell you want, to hell with what is best for the party. The fact of the matter is this:

Doing dungeons (unless soloing obviously) is a group effort. If you want to be selfish – run whatever you want. If you see yourself as a team player, run a group-centric build. This means traits, weapons and gear. There is nothing wrong with certain builds and gear being favoured – you’re not actually being stopped from running what you want unless you intend on joining a party focused around clearing the instance quickly – in which case then you run in to conflict, and you either bend to the whims of the group or you leave. There is nothing wrong with this. They are playing how they want, you can play how you want – it’s a win/win. Homogenising builds serves no real purpose.

Miroe.2054:

The weapon with the superior utility deals a little less damage. Not so much less that people deem it useless, but so much that it outweighs the better utility. Imagine short bow getting +1 damage, good enough to use? If no, repeat process until you’re not sure anymore. And there we are.

Of course we have weapon favoritism, but not because one is strictly better. But rather because you… and this is going to seem insane… because you like it. The space of viability is so narrow at the moment, that entire classes are excluded.

We already have that for most weapons. I’ll take guardian as an exemple, because that’s the profession i know the most.

- GS have pull, great burst dps, a blind, condi removal, but bad AA dps.
- Sword low burst, but good AA (but bugs out against object), 1 blind and some reflect.
- Hammer have best AA, protection, but no burst, a blast finisher and some CC.
- Focus have a blind and a block
- Shielf have protection and CC for PvP
- Staff is the best for tagging, give might and CC so usefull in WvW
- Scepter have the best range single target DPS, a huge burst DPS and an Immobilized.

Each of these weapon have a use. Not all are good in every aspect. Staff if bad in PvE, but good in WvW. Sword is good in PvE, but not that much in ZergvsZerg, etc.

Now you could bring range weapon more useful in PvE. But right now, range weapon are already balance in WvW with melee. So if you buff range weapon to be balance in PvE, you will make them overpowered in WvW. And even if the range weapon would be useful in PvE, you would still be better to stay in melee range with them.