Guild Wars 2

Hello guys, this is no topic just to state I’m done with meta builds. Hell no. I am done with every single person ever in this game writing down ‘meta zerk’ while they have no idea what it is, or how to play it themselves. Please don’t go with the crowd if you don’t even know what it means. Get your info from internet and/or players but don’t just blindly type and hype.

Why do you think we care about anything you mentioned in your post?

So are you blaming the tools or the users?

Zui.9245:

Why do you think we care about anything you mentioned in your post?

I don’t ‘think’ anything. Besides, nice representation of DnT, such nice comments of yours.

lorddavito.2395:

Zui.9245:

Why do you think we care about anything you mentioned in your post?

I don’t ‘think’ anything. Besides, nice representation of DnT, such nice comments of yours.

Lorddavito, do not take his comment as a representation of its guild or the community. Maybe he has a bad day, let us give him the benefit of the doubt if I may suggest? As for the original post, you are right! Many people tend to use words they do not know the meaning off or sub par versions of those said words.

I for example am trying to tackle such issues through my channel. Other members through guides and others through helpful replies on topics that would tackle these issues.

I believe we should make sure they are clueless (and not persons bent on giving us a bad name on purpose) and redirect them here for help, or, in the case such as yours where you reached more or less your limit in dealing with persons like this, try to not attack them in any way (n00b, useless casual etc etc) and instead try to ignore them.

It is good you have made this thread creating more awareness on the issue. I will personally dedicate a video rant about this meta zerk convention and its problems when it comes to applying it. Also let us bare in mind that even though they might have the proper gear, traits and theoretical knowledge, they might lack practice which would give the casual n00b impression.

Then there are the trolls or know-it-all’s/extremists but these persons should be completely ignored!

So you posted to tell us the following, as I read your post (perhaps it’s just vague and poorly worded enough that it can be totally misinterpreted?):

1) You’re done with meta builds. “Hello guys, this is no topic just to state I’m done with meta builds”

2) You’re done with every single person who talks about meta builds. “I am done with every single person ever in this game writing down ‘meta zerk’”

3) Every single person who talks about meta builds has no idea how to play them, or what said builds even are. “every single person ever in this game… have no idea what it is, or how to play it themselves”

4) People shouldn’t play meta builds, because no one even knows what meta builds are. “Please don’t go with the crowd if you don’t even know what it means.”

5) You can get your information from the internet or other players, even though no one but you even knows what a meta build is, but type and hype is not a good source of information. “Get your info from internet and/or players but don’t just blindly type and hype.”

#1. A lot of people post that they’re done with the meta, or anti-meta. I don’t think anyone in these forums really cares at this point.

#2. A lot of people express similar anti-meta sentiment. Again, I don’t think anyone in these forums really cares at this point.

#3. I’m not even sure what to say to this. Regardless, it doesn’t seem like something the average Dungeons & Fractals forum viewer is going to care about reading.

#4. I’m not even sure what to say to this either. Regardless, it doesn’t seem like something the average Dungeons & Fractals forum viewer is going to care about reading.

#5. What seems like good advice in isolation, makes little sense with respect to the rest of your post.

Although I bet even you have to admit, that most people that want “meta” groups dont actually understand them.

For instance, there was someone that kicked me out of a group for not having scholer runes (had strength as wasnt making a 2nd set just for pve when i know it wont be my main after HoT) …. I joined them on another account that had a scholer rune set on armour. Guess what, most of the group was rarely above 90% health and thus their scholer runes were useless… when questioned on it they simply told me that it still better to use that when only get the bonus 10-20% of the time then to use another rune where you will always have the bonus but is only 5% boost.
Hell even if you didnt know how meta groups should would, takes very little knowledge to know that you need to be above 90% health no less then 50% of the fight else a rune that gives 5% dmg increase for the entire fight is better.

I didn’t stay in the group of course, did not want to help them through it on an account I don’t care about… but I was just too curious that day to not do it after the attitude they previously gave me!

….
Although this thread is rather pointless, that I also have to admit

I’m so feeling you there, OP.
See, I grew up a simple farmer in Queensdale. When the Centaurs started their raids on my home lands, I lost everything in the ashes.. friends, family, property..
Having nothing left, you can imagine how limited my options were, how desperate I was.. no money, no one to rely on. With only one choice left, I ventured for the Reach. It was only my third time there, to the great markets where I’d sell crops and buy seeds after a harsh winter.
Exploring the grand city, I accidentally ventured to the Minister’s Waypoint, the great bank and Black Lion Trading Company.. and surrounded I was with many a hero resting with mead and bread after working hard to clear “dungeons.”

I did not understand what it was, and regrettably, my curiosity got the better of me. I asked what should have never been asked and a female human stepped forward.
She looked so frail and small, wearing scantly armor showing so much of her skin. I blushed. The scarf around her neck was striped in pretty colours and looked so comfortable and warm. On her back, a round circuit radiating blue magic.. on her head, bunny ears. And holstered at her waist, always ready to strike, something that looked like a welding torch and a hair dryer from which flowers would sometimes errupt. Her mouth and lips were very much covered in spittle, as if she’d been drooling.. and she asked: “lol u wanna farm cof p1 zerk onLy XD”
It was then I knew I had to run..
Thankfully, Logan Thackeray found me, gave me a purpose.. and now I serve as a loyal Soldier Guard with my steady arms holding sword and board. I could not be happier.
Anyways, the moral of the story is..
Keep far away from these “metazerk” people.. I.. I don’t know what’s wrong with them, but it seems like some sort of satanic disease.
Thank you for reading, keep being awesome OP

Corran.4957:

Although I bet even you have to admit, that most people that want “meta” groups dont actually understand them.

For instance, there was someone that kicked me out of a group for not having scholer runes (had strength as wasnt making a 2nd set just for pve when i know it wont be my main after HoT) …. I joined them on another account that had a scholer rune set on armour. Guess what, most of the group was rarely above 90% health and thus their scholer runes were useless… when questioned on it they simply told me that it still better to use that when only get the bonus 10-20% of the time then to use another rune where you will always have the bonus but is only 5% boost.
Hell even if you didnt know how meta groups should would, takes very little knowledge to know that you need to be above 90% health no less then 50% of the fight else a rune that gives 5% dmg increase for the entire fight is better.

I didn’t stay in the group of course, did not want to help them through it on an account I don’t care about… but I was just too curious that day to not do it after the attitude they previously gave me!

….
Although this thread is rather pointless, that I also have to admit

Hmm… I believe it’s around 25% scholar uptime.

I can’t blame pugs for using what they call the ‘zerk meta’ – (2 eles, guard war thief usually) as its safe and works pretty much anywhere. Saying that in organized groups it hardly matters what you decide to run anymore

Run a healer, meta zerkers love them.

theoutsider.7849:

Her mouth and lips were very much covered in spittle, as if she’d been drooling.. and she asked: “lol u wanna farm cof p1 zerk onLy XD”

My sides just left the earth

theoutsider.7849:

I’m so feeling you there, OP.
See, I grew up a simple farmer in Queensdale. When the Centaurs started their raids on my home lands, I lost everything in the ashes.. friends, family, property..
Having nothing left, you can imagine how limited my options were, how desperate I was.. no money, no one to rely on. With only one choice left, I ventured for the Reach. It was only my third time there, to the great markets where I’d sell crops and buy seeds after a harsh winter.
Exploring the grand city, I accidentally ventured to the Minister’s Waypoint, the great bank and Black Lion Trading Company.. and surrounded I was with many a hero resting with mead and bread after working hard to clear “dungeons.”

I did not understand what it was, and regrettably, my curiosity got the better of me. I asked what should have never been asked and a female human stepped forward.
She looked so frail and small, wearing scantly armor showing so much of her skin. I blushed. The scarf around her neck was striped in pretty colours and looked so comfortable and warm. On her back, a round circuit radiating blue magic.. on her head, bunny ears. And holstered at her waist, always ready to strike, something that looked like a welding torch and a hair dryer from which flowers would sometimes errupt. Her mouth and lips were very much covered in spittle, as if she’d been drooling.. and she asked: “lol u wanna farm cof p1 zerk onLy XD”
It was then I knew I had to run..

This is so amazing, thanks for the read!

theoutsider.7849:

I’m so feeling you there, OP.
See, I grew up a simple farmer in Queensdale. When the Centaurs started their raids on my home lands, I lost everything in the ashes.. friends, family, property..
Having nothing left, you can imagine how limited my options were, how desperate I was.. no money, no one to rely on. With only one choice left, I ventured for the Reach. It was only my third time there, to the great markets where I’d sell crops and buy seeds after a harsh winter.
Exploring the grand city, I accidentally ventured to the Minister’s Waypoint, the great bank and Black Lion Trading Company.. and surrounded I was with many a hero resting with mead and bread after working hard to clear “dungeons.”

I did not understand what it was, and regrettably, my curiosity got the better of me. I asked what should have never been asked and a female human stepped forward.
She looked so frail and small, wearing scantly armor showing so much of her skin. I blushed. The scarf around her neck was striped in pretty colours and looked so comfortable and warm. On her back, a round circuit radiating blue magic.. on her head, bunny ears. And holstered at her waist, always ready to strike, something that looked like a welding torch and a hair dryer from which flowers would sometimes errupt. Her mouth and lips were very much covered in spittle, as if she’d been drooling.. and she asked: “lol u wanna farm cof p1 zerk onLy XD”
It was then I knew I had to run..
Thankfully, Logan Thackeray found me, gave me a purpose.. and now I serve as a loyal Soldier Guard with my steady arms holding sword and board. I could not be happier.
Anyways, the moral of the story is..
Keep far away from these “metazerk” people.. I.. I don’t know what’s wrong with them, but it seems like some sort of satanic disease.
Thank you for reading, keep being awesome OP

Thank you dear sir, you just made my day. 10/10

Lux Dominatoris.3941:

It is good you have made this thread creating more awareness on the issue. I will personally dedicate a video rant about this meta zerk convention and its problems when it comes to applying it. Also let us bare in mind that even though they might have the proper gear, traits and theoretical knowledge, they might lack practice which would give the casual n00b impression.

In my opinion, the biggest issue is unnecessarily excluding perfectly viable classes. With the meta-composition (guard/thief/warr/2xele) being mindlessly spread across the lfg-system, it might leave the impression on dungeon-newcomers that this is somehow required and that classes such as mesmer, engi or ranger are not viable for dungeons.

Just if they knew metazerk was going to be much worse than “trinity”.

Substatic.6958:

Just if they knew metazerk was going to be much worse than “trinity”.

It’s the people not the systems. You could argue otherwise, but honestly this game has a very different demographic than the games I played in the past, just a lot more extremism. There are those middle ground players but not many speak up.

The good news though, unlike Trinity, you don’t need zerk at all. Many trinity games there were variations and options but in the end you needed some level of those different elements to play successfully. In GW2 though, zerk isn’t like that at all. The only thing is a fervent player base. So many diehard tryhards out there that see no problem in trying to initiate a meta policy into any group. Likewise you have the reverse, so many anti-meta players just joining groups to grief them or leach off them. Unfortunately there’s enough of them that they seemingly control the LFG tool because the people in the middle just don’t want to deal with these people at all, either side. So y ou just don’t see all that many middle ground players out there, or to be more accurate, you see a lot but not as many as the population is likely actually made up of.

At least that’s my take on things.

Just did a fractal 50 yesterday, 1 guard 1 mesmer 1 ranger 1 engineer 1 warrior. Went super fast and smooth, despite the lack of eles. We got Cliffside and Volcanic fractal, did volcanic fractal with the bonus chest from shaman phase 1.

Zerk and meta is not the problem. The problem is morons looking at record runs ingeniously using certain classes to shave down some extra time, and assume that the alternatives are so much worse.

This game is just exceptional in that its community seems to enjoy a greater share of self important tryhards.

Rest assured though that those pugging tryhards are all bark, just phonies. Successful raiders/hardcore guilds don’t PuG and don’t go around creating bad publicity for their guild by taking a crap on pug players.

I mean look at DnT/rT, they publish guides for ALL classes. Brazil makes youtube videos of worthwhile builds, even on the much despised reaper. If it was truly that group of players pushing a message that other classes besides ele/warr/thief/mes/guardian had no place in higher level content, you wouldn’t see Brazil or spoj making guides for the lesser classes. The content is perfectly doable by all classes, yeah ele is OP, but if a group is kicking you out based on your class you quite frankly dodged a bullet.

theoutsider.7849:

I’m so feeling you there, OP.
See, I grew up a simple farmer in Queensdale. When the Centaurs started their raids on my home lands, I lost everything in the ashes.. friends, family, property..
Having nothing left, you can imagine how limited my options were, how desperate I was.. no money, no one to rely on. With only one choice left, I ventured for the Reach. It was only my third time there, to the great markets where I’d sell crops and buy seeds after a harsh winter.
Exploring the grand city, I accidentally ventured to the Minister’s Waypoint, the great bank and Black Lion Trading Company.. and surrounded I was with many a hero resting with mead and bread after working hard to clear “dungeons.”

I did not understand what it was, and regrettably, my curiosity got the better of me. I asked what should have never been asked and a female human stepped forward.
She looked so frail and small, wearing scantly armor showing so much of her skin. I blushed. The scarf around her neck was striped in pretty colours and looked so comfortable and warm. On her back, a round circuit radiating blue magic.. on her head, bunny ears. And holstered at her waist, always ready to strike, something that looked like a welding torch and a hair dryer from which flowers would sometimes errupt. Her mouth and lips were very much covered in spittle, as if she’d been drooling.. and she asked: “lol u wanna farm cof p1 zerk onLy XD”
It was then I knew I had to run..
Thankfully, Logan Thackeray found me, gave me a purpose.. and now I serve as a loyal Soldier Guard with my steady arms holding sword and board. I could not be happier.
Anyways, the moral of the story is..
Keep far away from these “metazerk” people.. I.. I don’t know what’s wrong with them, but it seems like some sort of satanic disease.
Thank you for reading, keep being awesome OP

copy paste too good- thank you VERY MUTCH for that post

No new content created this imo, and the people that farmed the crap out of this to the point they knew when x was going to happen at y and if you stand at z while the wind is just right x won’t even happen. They went so try hard crazy (lack of new pve content) and made up speed runs for themselves which honestly is the saddest thing ever(lack of new pve content again). What works in speed runs optimization! they took the best of every possible thing and meshed it together for max damagez with the highest possible efficiency and speed.

Problem was when all these people started getting fed up with anything less (non guilde/friend runs shocker…) that they felt as though it was something everyone should do and it eventually became the base for everything. Biggest thing that was left out was how many times all these pros which they actually are no sarcasm there, had to redo, die or outright fail, before learning and putting in the time to memorize all the mechs of a fight to the point its second nature.

Pretty much imo it’s the games fault for not having new content and the top tier players for not describing the process of how metazerk actually came to be which involves a ton of knowing almost exactly every single mech from countless time spent on content or certain features that make things considerably easier. The actual metazerk by using ABC classes with these runes and this utility for max damage is awesome, but it shouldn’t be something expected of everyone and that’s the point the game is at.

It’s sad how these unmanageable standards have blown in up in the faces of the Dungeon community, though it’s all self inflicted. That’s what happens with player-instigated regulations. Game isn’t designed for exclusion and it’s cost us all by lack of development on a valuable source of entertainment.

Obtena.7952:

It’s sad how these unmanageable standards have blown in up in the faces of the Dungeon community, though it’s all self inflicted. That’s what happens with player-instigated regulations. Game isn’t designed for exclusion and it’s cost us all by lack of development on a valuable source of entertainment.

I know you’re trolling, but the dungeon community has nothing to do with it. Most of us are pretty easy going about team comp, especially in random pugs. The people who created the unmanageable standard are the wannabe-elitist scrubs who aren’t in the actual “community.”

Please just reintroduce tanks and healers and be done with this, I can’t handle it anymore… just give them what they want for the sake of peaceful foruming.

deSade.9437:

Please just reintroduce tanks and healers and be done with this, I can’t handle it anymore… just give them what they want for the sake of peaceful foruming.

Sorry to say this, but….

YOUR?
/hiss
I went to bed for a couple of hours and I have a lil more energy. No giving in… maybe… yeah… uh. Resist against impossible odds…

lorddavito.2395:

I am done with every single person ever in this game writing down ‘meta zerk’ while they have no idea what it is, or how to play it themselves.

But what IS the “meta zerk”, I wonder. I really was expecting a lecture of some kind – how do you play this fabled, 1spamming, problem-solving meta?

NikeEU.7690:

Obtena.7952:

It’s sad how these unmanageable standards have blown in up in the faces of the Dungeon community, though it’s all self inflicted. That’s what happens with player-instigated regulations. Game isn’t designed for exclusion and it’s cost us all by lack of development on a valuable source of entertainment.

I know you’re trolling, but the dungeon community has nothing to do with it. Most of us are pretty easy going about team comp, especially in random pugs. The people who created the unmanageable standard are the wannabe-elitist scrubs who aren’t in the actual “community.”

It’s actually anyone that promotes specific builds for whatever their cause of the day is. It’s infectious. It may not have been the intention, but this is the result.

Obtena.7952:

NikeEU.7690:

Obtena.7952:

It’s sad how these unmanageable standards have blown in up in the faces of the Dungeon community, though it’s all self inflicted. That’s what happens with player-instigated regulations. Game isn’t designed for exclusion and it’s cost us all by lack of development on a valuable source of entertainment.

I know you’re trolling, but the dungeon community has nothing to do with it. Most of us are pretty easy going about team comp, especially in random pugs. The people who created the unmanageable standard are the wannabe-elitist scrubs who aren’t in the actual “community.”

It’s actually anyone that promotes specific builds for whatever their cause of the day is. It’s infectious. It may not have been the intention, but this is the result.

Good thing we aren’t playing a trinity game, all those self-imposed regulations would have really blown up in our face. LF tank, kitten, the PHIWs are after us already!!!!

That’s not a problem in a trinity game. If you play a class that focuses on heals, it’s because you desire to heal, etc… so when someone asks you to heal, you don’t cry about it, you like it.

Everyone is PHIW … the question is if someone is a “play how I tell you”.

Obtena.7952:

That’s not a problem in a trinity game. If you play a class that focuses on heals, it’s because you desire to heal, etc… so when someone asks you to heal, you don’t cry about it, you like it.

So when someone asks you to use Wall of Reflect defend against projectiles you use Wall of Reflect because you chose a class that reflects projectiles. You don’t cry about it, you like it.

Obtena.7952:

That’s not a problem in a trinity game. If you play a class that focuses on heals, it’s because you desire to heal, etc… so when someone asks you to heal, you don’t cry about it, you like it.

Everyone is PHIW … the question is if someone is a “play how I tell you”.

What if you are a group irl friends and none of you wants to heal?

Genuinely curious because I’ve never played a trinity game before.

Killer Instinct.2058:

What if you are a group irl friends and none of you wants to heal?

Genuinely curious because I’ve never played a trinity game before.

Then nobody heals and you queue up for a dungeon with as many DPS as you are allowed. That means you may end up doing the dungeon without your entire group of friends.

lorddavito.2395:

Hello guys, this is no topic just to state I’m done with meta builds. Hell no. I am done with every single person ever in this game writing down ‘meta zerk’ while they have no idea what it is, or how to play it themselves. Please don’t go with the crowd if you don’t even know what it means. Get your info from internet and/or players but don’t just blindly type and hype.

Nobody cares – and I’m not even DnT.

Killer Instinct.2058:

Obtena.7952:

That’s not a problem in a trinity game. If you play a class that focuses on heals, it’s because you desire to heal, etc… so when someone asks you to heal, you don’t cry about it, you like it.

Everyone is PHIW … the question is if someone is a “play how I tell you”.

What if you are a group irl friends and none of you wants to heal?

Genuinely curious because I’ve never played a trinity game before.

I’ve never had that problem in a trinity game so I can’t answer you. Usually, you can grab any other healers LFT.

NikeEU.7690:

Obtena.7952:

That’s not a problem in a trinity game. If you play a class that focuses on heals, it’s because you desire to heal, etc… so when someone asks you to heal, you don’t cry about it, you like it.

So when someone asks you to use Wall of Reflect defend against projectiles you use Wall of Reflect because you chose a class that reflects projectiles. You don’t cry about it, you like it.

I don’t see a problem with that … I also don’t see the relevant comparison either. Someone asking for a specific, single tool to an encounter is not the same as someone telling what complete build other people should be using. Wall of Reflection is not a ‘metabuild’.

I also don’t get your point; you think a comparison of a single skill and a whole concept for a characters role proves something? Let me know when you figure out what that something is. In the meantime, give some serious thought to what I said and why we are in the situation we have now …

Obtena.7952:

Killer Instinct.2058:

Obtena.7952:

That’s not a problem in a trinity game. If you play a class that focuses on heals, it’s because you desire to heal, etc… so when someone asks you to heal, you don’t cry about it, you like it.

Everyone is PHIW … the question is if someone is a “play how I tell you”.

What if you are a group irl friends and none of you wants to heal?

Genuinely curious because I’ve never played a trinity game before.

I’ve never had that problem in a trinity game so I can’t answer you. Usually, you can grab any other healers LFT.

So you can’t play with your friends because you have to pick a LFT healer, if you find one because every MMO lacks healers by design.

Obtena.7952:

I also don’t get your point; you think a comparison of a single skill and a whole concept for a characters role proves something? Let me know when you figure out what that something is. In the meantime, give some serious thought to what I said and why we are in the situation we have now …

I could have cited any number of skills, utilities and traits that compose the “meta” guardian build. I picked one to keep it simple for you. You can patronize if you like, but being dismissive of someone who has a pretty good grasp on this game’s structure and theorycraft is to your own detriment.

If your basic level theory was correct, and guardians didnt have a distinct role in the meta, you could watch a record run with a guardian in it and replace that guardian with any other profession that had equal DPS and the time of the run would be the exact same. On the other hand, if I am correct in my assertion that guardians have a very defined role, you could not replace the guardian with any random profession/build of equal DPS and expect similar results. Even a genius author of a comprehensive Burn guide should be able to deduce which of us is correct.

Killer Instinct.2058:

Obtena.7952:

That’s not a problem in a trinity game. If you play a class that focuses on heals, it’s because you desire to heal, etc… so when someone asks you to heal, you don’t cry about it, you like it.

Everyone is PHIW … the question is if someone is a “play how I tell you”.

What if you are a group irl friends and none of you wants to heal?

Genuinely curious because I’ve never played a trinity game before.

Someone sucks it up and plays something they don’t particularly prefer. Eventually people build alts so they can share the burden. Though, it’s not all the much different than when you’re in a group of friends in this game that as a whole insist on running more optimal team comps, I’ve been with multiple groups that someone would have to suck it up and play the nice and boring PS warrior.

On the flip side though, back in my last trinity game it was typically more fighting over playing healer or tank because it was 1 of each of those and the rest dps/controllers so plenty of room for those roles (2-3 of each of those).

Anyone who thinks GW2 doesn’t have a trinity of its own is fooling himself.

PS warrior and ele are the pillars of any group, and for non-record runs guardian enters as well.

To the guy who enjoys playing ranger/necromancer, sucks to be you. To the guy who wants to play a mesmer as a competitive damage class instead of a portal bot running ahead while people do the actual fights, sucks to be you.

You want a MMO where class balance is a priority, don’t play F2P games, there’s no money to be made in constant and comprehensive class balance updates, so obviously these vast disparities in role performance fester for 3+ years as new prejudices are nurtured from development’s neglect.

I mean, it’s been years already where ballistas/arrow carts in urban fractals are obstructed to both mesmer and ranger greatsword/longbow autoattacks/attacks. This is simple stuff, really. Jade Maw targeting pets and spirits and clones…

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Obtena.7952:

Killer Instinct.2058:

Obtena.7952:

That’s not a problem in a trinity game. If you play a class that focuses on heals, it’s because you desire to heal, etc… so when someone asks you to heal, you don’t cry about it, you like it.

Everyone is PHIW … the question is if someone is a “play how I tell you”.

What if you are a group irl friends and none of you wants to heal?

Genuinely curious because I’ve never played a trinity game before.

I’ve never had that problem in a trinity game so I can’t answer you. Usually, you can grab any other healers LFT.

So you can’t play with your friends because you have to pick a LFT healer, if you find one because every MMO lacks healers by design.

Does it? OK. /shrug

NikeEU.7690:

Obtena.7952:

I also don’t get your point; you think a comparison of a single skill and a whole concept for a characters role proves something? Let me know when you figure out what that something is. In the meantime, give some serious thought to what I said and why we are in the situation we have now …

I could have cited any number of skills, utilities and traits that compose the “meta” guardian build. I picked one to keep it simple for you.

Well, unfortunately I’m smarter than you give me credit for and your stunt ruined your point, so it must not have been worth reading anyways.

Deny it all you like; GW2 is designed to allow people to play whatever builds they want and still succeed. I know that bothers the meta runners because it ruins their message of ‘the proper way’ to play; too bad. lf people start inventing reasons to bully people into specific builds, it’s not going to go well.

I fully agree with Nike here, it’s not about singular skills but about strengths of professions at different roles. I was going to list the strengths of every profession but I’m sure everyone here knows. The main difference in this game though is that no matter what you do you’re far more diversified than in other games. Everyone has contributions to support, control, and damage. Each profession having strengths in different areas and doing it in different ways.

Even trinity games have leaned in this direction, with offereing each profession multiple role options. I’ll take Wildstar for example where you had Melee and Range DPS then Tanks and Healers and each profession got 1 style of damage and either tank or healer. DCUO also had your Role (tank/heal/control) and DPS stances so everyone could play DPS or could play their role (or at high end often some combination of the two).

In the end the complaints about this game are due to lack of challenging content and a few poor design decisions (not enough punishment for failure) which just makes playing the more defensive setups not as popular.

Obtena.7952:

NikeEU.7690:

Obtena.7952:

I also don’t get your point; you think a comparison of a single skill and a whole concept for a characters role proves something? Let me know when you figure out what that something is. In the meantime, give some serious thought to what I said and why we are in the situation we have now …

I could have cited any number of skills, utilities and traits that compose the “meta” guardian build. I picked one to keep it simple for you.

Well, it ruined your point, which was silly in the first place. Deny it all you like; GW2 is designed to allow people to play whatever builds they want to be successful. lf people start inventing reasons to bully people into specific builds, it’s not going to go well.

Elitist jerks exist in every MMO, it’s nothing new in GW2.

And there’s absolutely nothing wrong for asking for specific setups for a group, and it’s not bullying to do so and kick someone if they try to join in without meeting those criteria that were stated.

Jerus.4350:

Obtena.7952:

NikeEU.7690:

Obtena.7952:

I also don’t get your point; you think a comparison of a single skill and a whole concept for a characters role proves something? Let me know when you figure out what that something is. In the meantime, give some serious thought to what I said and why we are in the situation we have now …

I could have cited any number of skills, utilities and traits that compose the “meta” guardian build. I picked one to keep it simple for you.

Well, it ruined your point, which was silly in the first place. Deny it all you like; GW2 is designed to allow people to play whatever builds they want to be successful. lf people start inventing reasons to bully people into specific builds, it’s not going to go well.

Elitist jerks exist in every MMO, it’s nothing new in GW2.

And there’s absolutely nothing wrong for asking for specific setups for a group, and it’s not bullying to do so and kick someone if they try to join in without meeting those criteria that were stated.

Hey, I’m not saying there is anything wrong with that. People should respect the LFG messages. What’s being ‘discussed’ is the fact that ignorant people are using ‘meta’ to treat people badly. My point is that is an inevitable result of demanding people use specific builds to playing the game. Because it’s a player induced element, it’s eventually going to be abused by players because it can’t be controlled.

Obtena.7952:

Hey, I’m not saying there is anything wrong with that. People should respect the LFG messages. What’s being ‘discussed’ is the fact that ignorant people are using ‘meta’ to treat people badly. My point is that is an inevitable result of demanding people use specific builds to playing the game. Because it’s a player induced element, it’s eventually going to be abused by players because it can’t be controlled.

But what is your point? We shouldn’t ever mention the fact that there is a more optimal way of playing because if we do so try hards will use that knowledge to bully other people?

That kind of behavior will always exist whatever you do. Anet can mitigate that with a better LFG because people can’t read. But otherwise, I don’t see what you are trying to say here?

Are you saying that there shouldn’t any meta?
We should talk about meta the way we do?
Anet should change the meta?

My point is that we can learn a lesson: Don’t try to impose player-based rules where the game doesn’t support them. I believe it’s resulted in Anet pulling the plug on our instanced-team content. If people change their attitudes towards the ‘not-meta’ players, we might even be able to make this kind of bad behaviour become a rare instance.

Thaddeus.4891:

Obtena.7952:

Hey, I’m not saying there is anything wrong with that. People should respect the LFG messages. What’s being ‘discussed’ is the fact that ignorant people are using ‘meta’ to treat people badly. My point is that is an inevitable result of demanding people use specific builds to playing the game. Because it’s a player induced element, it’s eventually going to be abused by players because it can’t be controlled.

But what is your point? We shouldn’t ever mention the fact that there is a more optimal way of playing because if we do so try hards will use that knowledge to bully other people?

That kind of behavior will always exist whatever you do. Anet can mitigate that with a better LFG because people can’t read. But otherwise, I don’t see what you are trying to say here?

Are you saying that there shouldn’t any meta?
We should talk about meta the way we do?
Anet should change the meta?

I think social acceptance would be a great start.

Currently the moment you decide to don any form of toughness, the passive aggressive peer pressure labels tend to come out of the dark. It is not uncommon to be labeled as someone who is “still learning” or is “just not good enough to go full glass” the moment you decide to don anything that doesn’t remotely resemble meta builds. Allow me to provide some links to illustrate my point.

1. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Rescuing-my-Old-Cleric-Build/first#post5033978

Obtena’s very comments vs mine in contrast to some other people’s experiences with cleric guardians like Skady Valda

2. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Hate-against-min-maxing-in-gw2/page/3#post5019377

Me vs Harper

3. https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2t5ttu/zerker_is_pve_endgame_and_thats_the_best_thing/

The infamous repost.

4.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Is-condi-Mesmer-viable-for-dungeons/first#post5410712

Something more recent.

For a long time now seeds have been sown to teach people that toughness was only there as a “tool to help you learn content” or using it was “lazy” or it didn’t make you better at the game. Alternative play was generally shunned despite the fact that you can literally do a lot of dungeon content completely naked.

No one likes to log in after whatever drama they have to deal with in their own lives just to get outright labeled as “sub optimal” and the more people realize that the better off everyone will be.

In short, PWIW ideology is to be what is globally promoted across the internet. Bring whatever you like as long as you do your very best, to bring the player regardless of build in contrast to old Zerker Meta ideology which is to bring the build over the player.

In the souls games (Dark Souls, etc), its been a known fact that it is very possible to accomplish multiple newgame+ tiers naked, that doesn’t stop people from making archetypes for the sake of RP and fun which is generally very enjoyable content to watch. This same manner of culture must reign supreme in GW2.

Obtena.7952:

My point is that we can learn a lesson: Don’t try to impose player-based rules where the game doesn’t support them. I believe it’s resulted in Anet pulling the plug on our instanced-team content. If people change their attitudes towards the ‘not-meta’ players, we might even be able to make this kind of bad behaviour become a rare instance.

So its all the meta players fault?

Because people don’t read?

Because people join groups knowing they don’t fit in?

Sorry, I don’t buy this.

It would be like me going to my weekly board game group and setting down with a group of guys who are about to play Settlers of Catan and throwing monopoly down in the middle of the table, then expecting those guys to play my game. Because its my “right” to be included in their group.

And you don’t think that might just be a scapegoat being picked out in an attempt to find an answer for the reason why some people are just kittenbags?

Talyn.3295:

Obtena.7952:

My point is that we can learn a lesson: Don’t try to impose player-based rules where the game doesn’t support them. I believe it’s resulted in Anet pulling the plug on our instanced-team content. If people change their attitudes towards the ‘not-meta’ players, we might even be able to make this kind of bad behaviour become a rare instance.

So its all the meta players fault?

Because people don’t read?

Because people join groups knowing they don’t fit in?

Sorry, I don’t buy this.

It would be like me going to my weekly board game group and setting down with a group of guys who are about to play Settlers of Catan and throwing monopoly down in the middle of the table, then expecting those guys to play my game. Because its my “right” to be included in their group.

You’re ‘reading between the lines’ skills need improvement, as well as your ability to follow the thread.

Talyn.3295:

Obtena.7952:

My point is that we can learn a lesson: Don’t try to impose player-based rules where the game doesn’t support them. I believe it’s resulted in Anet pulling the plug on our instanced-team content. If people change their attitudes towards the ‘not-meta’ players, we might even be able to make this kind of bad behaviour become a rare instance.

So its all the meta players fault?

Because people don’t read?

Because people join groups knowing they don’t fit in?

Sorry, I don’t buy this.

It would be like me going to my weekly board game group and setting down with a group of guys who are about to play Settlers of Catan and throwing monopoly down in the middle of the table, then expecting those guys to play my game. Because its my “right” to be included in their group.

<3 settlers! I never win, but the best entertainment watching friendships being ruined!… sorry I know off topic