Guild Wars 2

broken forum.

Hey Rising,
Here’s a tl;dr of a changes requiered for mesmer in dungeons :

Dueling :

• Moved Blade training to Grandmaster
• Moved Dualist’s Discipline to Master
• Moved Master of Manipulation from Chaos Adept to Dueling Adept
• Moved Mistrust from Dueling Grandmaster to Chaos Adept

Chaos :

• Moved Mistrust from Dueling Grandmaster to Chaos Adept

Illusions :

• Persistence of Memory moved from Adept to Grandmaster + Increased recharges to 33% per shatter.
• Blinding Befuddlement moved from Grandmaster to Master
• Sum of All Fears moved from Master to Adept

Bad design :

• HM has awful longetivity in PvE, increase boon duration to 10, 12 seconds
• Protected Phantasm has an internal CD that kills its whole purpose when you summon more than one phantasm in 10 seconds (you always are).

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Hey Rising,
Here’s a tl;dr of a changes requiered for mesmer in dungeons :

Dueling :

• Moved Blade training to Grandmaster
• Moved Dualist’s Discipline to Master
• Moved Master of Manipulation from Chaos Adept to Dueling Adept
• Moved Mistrust from Dueling Grandmaster to Chaos Adept

Chaos :

• Moved Mistrust from Dueling Grandmaster to Chaos Adept

Illusions :

• Persistence of Memory moved from Adept to Grandmaster + Increased recharges to 33% per shatter.
• Blinding Befuddlement moved from Grandmaster to Master
• Sum of All Fears moved from Master to Adept

i thought about the 33%, but its too powerful, you are basically canceling ALL phantasms recast if you shatter 3.
then its almost always best to shatter when full. You might even be able to cancel some animation lock time.

basically you need to get 1 phantasm back for shattering 3. then, depending on recast of your two fast ones, it may be worthwhile.

thats why i suggested
1 phant shatter = reduction
2 phant shatter = more reduction
3 phant shatter = summon phantasm on current target.

regardless as the functionality it has right now is too weak.

So I’ve been reviewing what people are saying about Guardian, and I think it’s probably in a pretty good state, although there are some false choices available in the trait selections and Scepter/Sword really don’t pick up nearly as much as the other weapons. Scepter Smite not being a symbol is pretty harsh given the natural synergy other weapons get with their symbols, for instance.

Guardian

• Adept Zeal is a false choice; Fiery Wrath is always the best choice. Zealous Scepter is horribly bad and the Retaliation when Aegis ends is far too weak to consider. Zealous Scepter should apply 1 stack of might for 5 seconds when you deal damage with a Scepter equipped, no ICD. That would actually synergize with things like Smite Condition and a well-placed Smite.
• Right Hand Strength should reduce cooldowns for Sword and Scepter, not just Sword.
• Adept Radiance is another false choice because Right Hand Strength is always what you want. Again, Retaliation on heal is nowhere near worth a trait slot.
• Shield is still bad compared to Focus. The shield trait should apply Aegis to all allies affected by Shield skills to really be worth taking anywhere (and echo that to the bubble on revive trait).

Some other notes about things that are still bad and will never see the light of day that we should mention here so the devs see it.

• Radiant Retaliation is another false choice and needs to actually do something other than swap governing stats or it will never be worth taking. A condition build will literally never opt to have Retaliation scale with Power over Amplified Wrath.

Other than the fact that Scepter and Sword definitely need something to ensure they don’t get lost from builds because they lack symbols, the Guardian changes are overall pretty welcome. Right Hand Strength helping scepter cooldowns and Zealous Scepter being an actually good trait to use over Fiery Wrath would be the biggest helps here. Of course, Smite becoming “Symbol of Smiting” would also be pretty great. Sword will still need some DPS boosting or another trait looking at it to ensure that it is relevant even without a symbol.

Maybe replace Empowering Might (weak low duration might with an ICD) with something like this:

Vengeful Arbiter: When you critical hit with a Sword equipped, Flashing Blade is recharged. Sword attacks deal 10% more damage. 8 second ICD. (Won’t trigger unless Flashing Blade is on CD)

Fun trait that would help with vuln stacking in PvE and offer engage mobility in WvW/PvP but only if already in combat with a sword. Sword is weak in PvP anyway

I’m looking at Mesmer stuff next.

Rising Dusk.2408:

So I’ve been reviewing what people are saying about Guardian, and I think it’s probably in a pretty good state, although there are some false choices available in the trait selections and Scepter/Sword really don’t pick up nearly as much as the other weapons. Scepter Smite not being a symbol is pretty harsh given the natural synergy other weapons get with their symbols, for instance.

Guardian

• Adept Zeal is a false choice; Fiery Wrath is always the best choice. Zealous Scepter is horribly bad and the Retaliation when Aegis ends is far too weak to consider. Zealous Scepter should apply 1 stack of might for 5 seconds when you deal damage with a Scepter equipped, no ICD. That would actually synergize with things like Smite Condition and a well-placed Smite.
• Right Hand Strength should reduce cooldowns for Sword and Scepter, not just Sword.
• Adept Radiance is another false choice because Right Hand Strength is always what you want. Again, Retaliation on heal is nowhere near worth a trait slot.
• Shield is still bad compared to Focus. The shield trait should apply Aegis to all allies affected by Shield skills to really be worth taking anywhere (and echo that to the bubble on revive trait).

Some other notes about things that are still bad and will never see the light of day that we should mention here so the devs see it.

• Radiant Retaliation is another false choice and needs to actually do something other than swap governing stats or it will never be worth taking. A condition build will literally never opt to have Retaliation scale with Power over Amplified Wrath.

Other than the fact that Scepter and Sword definitely need something to ensure they don’t get lost from builds because they lack symbols, the Guardian changes are overall pretty welcome. Right Hand Strength helping scepter cooldowns and Zealous Scepter being an actually good trait to use over Fiery Wrath would be the biggest helps here. Of course, Smite becoming “Symbol of Smiting” would also be pretty great. Sword will still need some DPS boosting or another trait looking at it to ensure that it is relevant even without a symbol.

Maybe replace Empowering Might (weak low duration might with an ICD) with something like this:

Vengeful Arbiter: When you critical hit with a Sword equipped, Flashing Blade is recharged. Sword attacks deal 10% more damage. 8 second ICD. (Won’t trigger unless Flashing Blade is on CD)

Fun trait that would help with vuln stacking in PvE and offer engage mobility in WvW/PvP but only if already in combat with a sword. Sword is weak in PvP anyway

I’m looking at Mesmer stuff next.

I agree with you on almost all the points. Not sure how I feel about Vengeful Arbiter though. I think I would just rather see Zealots Defense replaced with a symbol. I know this might take away form the fluid feel of the sword. Given that I almost never used it outside of PvP I wouldn’t miss it much.

While we are talking about guardian sword. It would be nice if they would look at the Auto Attack chain. Maybe finally convince them that the projectile on Auto Attack 3 needs to be looked at.

Rising Dusk.2408:

So I’ve been reviewing what people are saying about Guardian, and I think it’s probably in a pretty good state, although there are some false choices available in the trait selections and Scepter/Sword really don’t pick up nearly as much as the other weapons. Scepter Smite not being a symbol is pretty harsh given the natural synergy other weapons get with their symbols, for instance.

Guardian

• Adept Zeal is a false choice; Fiery Wrath is always the best choice. Zealous Scepter is horribly bad and the Retaliation when Aegis ends is far too weak to consider. Zealous Scepter should apply 1 stack of might for 5 seconds when you deal damage with a Scepter equipped, no ICD. That would actually synergize with things like Smite Condition and a well-placed Smite.
• Right Hand Strength should reduce cooldowns for Sword and Scepter, not just Sword.
• Adept Radiance is another false choice because Right Hand Strength is always what you want. Again, Retaliation on heal is nowhere near worth a trait slot.
• Shield is still bad compared to Focus. The shield trait should apply Aegis to all allies affected by Shield skills to really be worth taking anywhere (and echo that to the bubble on revive trait).

Some other notes about things that are still bad and will never see the light of day that we should mention here so the devs see it.

• Radiant Retaliation is another false choice and needs to actually do something other than swap governing stats or it will never be worth taking. A condition build will literally never opt to have Retaliation scale with Power over Amplified Wrath.

Other than the fact that Scepter and Sword definitely need something to ensure they don’t get lost from builds because they lack symbols, the Guardian changes are overall pretty welcome. Right Hand Strength helping scepter cooldowns and Zealous Scepter being an actually good trait to use over Fiery Wrath would be the biggest helps here. Of course, Smite becoming “Symbol of Smiting” would also be pretty great. Sword will still need some DPS boosting or another trait looking at it to ensure that it is relevant even without a symbol.

Maybe replace Empowering Might (weak low duration might with an ICD) with something like this:

Vengeful Arbiter: When you critical hit with a Sword equipped, Flashing Blade is recharged. Sword attacks deal 10% more damage. 8 second ICD. (Won’t trigger unless Flashing Blade is on CD)

Fun trait that would help with vuln stacking in PvE and offer engage mobility in WvW/PvP but only if already in combat with a sword. Sword is weak in PvP anyway

I’m looking at Mesmer stuff next.

I really don’t think adjusting the Scepter trait with might is the right idea. Even if it was 25 stacks of might on hit, you’d still have it completely removed from the group game as we have many options to work as a team and get might for everyone.

It could be decent in solo situations, but that’s really it.

As for Radiance Adept, I agree with the retal trait, but I do think the “on burning get fury” trait will be pretty nice in solo situations as it’s crit for both gs and whatever 1handed you’re using.

Unrelated to the current topic, but a question I have here. I’m pretty sure I remember reading somewhere that the dev’s said that improv will only boost the damage of stolen skills and no longer bundles, but then they also said that they’re taking away the damage portion of stolen skills. And now it says it’s just a 10% damage increase overall? I’m confuzzled.

They were WIP stuff so many of the tooltips could have been wrong.

Jerus.4350:

I really don’t think adjusting the Scepter trait with might is the right idea. Even if it was 25 stacks of might on hit, you’d still have it completely removed from the group game as we have many options to work as a team and get might for everyone.

It could be decent in solo situations, but that’s really it.

As for Radiance Adept, I agree with the retal trait, but I do think the “on burning get fury” trait will be pretty nice in solo situations as it’s crit for both gs and whatever 1handed you’re using.

Fair, the might doesn’t help when you have blasts and fire fields. I was just trying to keep it in the spirit of the original trait. Either way I think we need some kind of offensive support interesting trait for both scepter and sword. Ideally I’d like the scepter trait to be better than Fiery Wrath so that if you use a scepter you actually have a better choice. I’m open to suggestions.

Zealous Scepter: Scepter skills while maintaining 5 stacks of might or more deal 10% more damage. Scepter skills recharge 20% faster.

Something like that would be nice and would actually compete with Fiery Wrath.

Here’s my take on the proposed specialization lines for Elementalist in regards to instanced PvE.

Conjure weapons are apparently going to be nerfed. An argument could be made for Ice Bow being a little bit over the top yet it’s ground-targetted AoE nature made it only absurd when applied on large hitbox targets which in itself is just clever use of game mechanics no matter how hard I look at it. The Lightning Hammer nerf is quite puzzling to me, in it’s current state it provided non-staff builds a viable source of sustained damage that was by no means over the top. It’s #4 ability Lightning Storm benefits from the same logic as Ice Bow’s Ice Storm which really only made it optimal when applied to large hitbox targets. Then again, all the balancing revolves around PvP and WvW and I have no clue how Lightning Hammer has been impacting these game modes.

Air Magic is a problem as it was presented to us. No adept trait is currently worthwhile as Ferocious Winds will amount to essentially nothing in ferocity gains and having Bolt to the Heart as a grandmaster trait alongside Fresh Air is a tremendous blow to non-staff builds. I suggest Bolt to the Heart be swapped with Tempest Defense that is a master trait in order to give alternatives to Staff more viability.

The inability to select traits of lower tiers for a higher one’s slot i.e. adept traits in master trait slots is also a highly limiting factor. In general, most professions appear to have at least one rather useless tier of a line that could benefit from this extra flexibility.

In conclusion, if the proposed setups are final the elementalist profession will have been pushed further down the road of the staff meta especially considering that Phalanx Strength has remained unchanged on Warrior which is already now a very well-liked setup due to it’s more reliable and easier to access nature.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Jerus.4350:

I really don’t think adjusting the Scepter trait with might is the right idea. Even if it was 25 stacks of might on hit, you’d still have it completely removed from the group game as we have many options to work as a team and get might for everyone.

It could be decent in solo situations, but that’s really it.

As for Radiance Adept, I agree with the retal trait, but I do think the “on burning get fury” trait will be pretty nice in solo situations as it’s crit for both gs and whatever 1handed you’re using.

Fair, the might doesn’t help when you have blasts and fire fields. I was just trying to keep it in the spirit of the original trait. Either way I think we need some kind of offensive support interesting trait for both scepter and sword. Ideally I’d like the scepter trait to be better than Fiery Wrath so that if you use a scepter you actually have a better choice. I’m open to suggestions.

Zealous Scepter: Scepter skills while maintaining 5 stacks of might or more deal 10% more damage. Scepter skills recharge 20% faster.

Something like that would be nice and would actually compete with Fiery Wrath.

That’d do it.

Another guard and I were tossing around the idea of the trait making your smite a symbol, but 20% less cooldown would work too I think, more smites and no loss in damage while using scepter for the fiery wrath tradeoff, it’d be solid I think.

Jerus.4350:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Jerus.4350:

I really don’t think adjusting the Scepter trait with might is the right idea. Even if it was 25 stacks of might on hit, you’d still have it completely removed from the group game as we have many options to work as a team and get might for everyone.

It could be decent in solo situations, but that’s really it.

As for Radiance Adept, I agree with the retal trait, but I do think the “on burning get fury” trait will be pretty nice in solo situations as it’s crit for both gs and whatever 1handed you’re using.

Fair, the might doesn’t help when you have blasts and fire fields. I was just trying to keep it in the spirit of the original trait. Either way I think we need some kind of offensive support interesting trait for both scepter and sword. Ideally I’d like the scepter trait to be better than Fiery Wrath so that if you use a scepter you actually have a better choice. I’m open to suggestions.

Zealous Scepter: Scepter skills while maintaining 5 stacks of might or more deal 10% more damage. Scepter skills recharge 20% faster.

Something like that would be nice and would actually compete with Fiery Wrath.

That’d do it.

Another guard and I were tossing around the idea of the trait making your smite a symbol, but 20% less cooldown would work too I think, more smites and no loss in damage while using scepter for the fiery wrath tradeoff, it’d be solid I think.

If Smite is a Symbol, it could be too OP in sPvP.

The same could be predicted with Fresh Air and Bolt to the Heart combo. Currently most Fresh Air Spike is instant cast and almost undodge-able. It is very easy to 50-0 anyone in spvp with Fresh Air. With 06660 setup, it could give a massive amount of damage and sustain for the traditional Fresh Air + Bolt to the Heart. That’s where I see its damage WILL get nerfed no matter what. I agree the nerf isn’t fair and all Air adept traits lack luster. But moving Bolt to the Heart back to Adept or Master won’t be as easy as you simply demand it. I’d rather ask for buff to the other Air Traits.

One With Air
Ferocious Wind
Inscription

Ferocious Wind in the current iteration gives literally 0% dps increase. I wouldn’t really want to comment on it without using invectives.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Maybe replace Empowering Might (weak low duration might with an ICD) with something like this:

Vengeful Arbiter: When you critical hit with a Sword equipped, Flashing Blade is recharged. Sword attacks deal 10% more damage. 8 second ICD. (Won’t trigger unless Flashing Blade is on CD)

Fun trait that would help with vuln stacking in PvE and offer engage mobility in WvW/PvP but only if already in combat with a sword. Sword is weak in PvP anyway

I’m looking at Mesmer stuff next.

Swapping empowering might would still make sword a bad choice in PvE since it’s in a line we won’t commonly use. I’m also pretty sure if we’d actually use that line for a hammer build, the constant symbol uptime would make spamming hammer 1 more powerful than having a sword in there at all.

Iris Ng.9845:

If Smite is a Symbol, it could be too OP in sPvP.

No it wouldn’t, no one stays in smite ever and considering scepter auto never ever hits anything the scepter should get a buff in sPvP. Furthermore, since you’ll be able to immob without scepter now, sword becomes a better choice. (but that may be a topic for another forum)

cranos.5913:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Maybe replace Empowering Might (weak low duration might with an ICD) with something like this:

Vengeful Arbiter: When you critical hit with a Sword equipped, Flashing Blade is recharged. Sword attacks deal 10% more damage. 8 second ICD. (Won’t trigger unless Flashing Blade is on CD)

Fun trait that would help with vuln stacking in PvE and offer engage mobility in WvW/PvP but only if already in combat with a sword. Sword is weak in PvP anyway

I’m looking at Mesmer stuff next.

Swapping empowering might would still make sword a bad choice in PvE since it’s in a line we won’t commonly use. I’m also pretty sure if we’d actually use that line for a hammer build, the constant symbol uptime would make spamming hammer 1 more powerful than having a sword in there at all.

Iris Ng.9845:

If Smite is a Symbol, it could be too OP in sPvP.

No it wouldn’t, no one stays in smite ever and considering scepter auto never ever hits anything the scepter should get a buff in sPvP. Furthermore, since you’ll be able to immob without scepter now, sword becomes a better choice. (but that may be a topic for another forum)

Panic Strike, Entangle => Smite. Good game. Ring of Warding + Scepter immo => Smite, good game. They are all combo set up that you cannot simply dodge and walking out of. Hammer/Scepter/Focus Medi is popular because they are really strong.

Iris Ng.9845:

Panic Strike, Entangle => Smite. Good game. Ring of Warding + Scepter immo => Smite, good game. They are all combo set up that you cannot simply dodge and walking out of. Hammer/Scepter/Focus Medi is popular because they are really strong.

I’m not saying it’s terrible, but sword has a lot more to offer. Double the mobility, more damage, projectile protection and with a trait you now have an immob that you missed before making you set up more spikes. Scepter is taken because of the lack of CC on other guardian weapons, not because of its awesome damage.

Also consider the line the symbol trait is in. To get it you would either lose absolute resolution and indomitable courage, making you more squishy and a bad stomper or you’d lose a fairly powerful blind from justice + no recharge and quite a lot of burning dmg.

Making smite a symbol would make it a more viable alternative and would make people actually choose which line they wanna invest in. Plus it’s no more crazy than giving thief perma stealth + dmg traits.

I’m really displeased with ele changes.

Actually more like I’m displeased with all these trait changes overall strictly because it kills build diversity and makes it harder to create a build with what you want/need in it. It’s a QoL nuisance in that aspect.

An example of what I mean is that for ele in particular, you cannot go 64004 on staff to get renewing stamina. This is a really helpful option for when you need more endurance and want to keep blasting staff – a sacrifice of 10% of your personal damage. You also cannot do this with D/F and do 66002 (ignoring that D/F is killed either way).

It’s just annoying. There’s no positive changes for ele aside from staff getting higher health pool, bountiful power, and the 10% damage which it already has the option of getting from vital striking. Also it’s lame because we also lost arcane lightning which was a superb trait, now merged into some sh***y air-only trait.

Really a shame.

I don’t want to get into what I feel about earth/arcane magic, but air magic really needs to change. As it is right now it’s kittening pathetic.

First of all, all air magic adept traits are terrible. Bolt to the heart needs to be moved back to adept big time because that way it’ll be possible for D/F ele builds to benefit. Moving it to GM was a stupid choice. So I think Ferocious Winds should be scrapped and replaced with Bolt to the Heart.

Secondly I think Air Training should be merged with Aeromancer’s Training, so it gives 10% damage as well as reduced cooldowns but take out the ferocity gained from it. So instead of the trait giving 150 ferocity it will give the damage.

Third I think Arcane Lightning would do fine as a GM trait merged with what we had with Ferocious Winds except instead of gaining ferocity from healing power, we should gain precision from the ferocity. Healing power and ferocity are completely unrelated attributes and it makes no sense to waste a trait for it. Changing it to function this way would make sure that it can compete with the combination of Tempest Defense + Lightning Rod, and would be unavailable for people that want to use any builds involving fresh air.

cranos.5913:

Iris Ng.9845:

Panic Strike, Entangle => Smite. Good game. Ring of Warding + Scepter immo => Smite, good game. They are all combo set up that you cannot simply dodge and walking out of. Hammer/Scepter/Focus Medi is popular because they are really strong.

I’m not saying it’s terrible, but sword has a lot more to offer. Double the mobility, more damage, projectile protection and with a trait you now have an immob that you missed before making you set up more spikes. Scepter is taken because of the lack of CC on other guardian weapons, not because of its awesome damage.

Also consider the line the symbol trait is in. To get it you would either lose absolute resolution and indomitable courage, making you more squishy and a bad stomper or you’d lose a fairly powerful blind from justice + no recharge and quite a lot of burning dmg.

Making smite a symbol would make it a more viable alternative and would make people actually choose which line they wanna invest in. Plus it’s no more crazy than giving thief perma stealth + dmg traits.

Smite is fairly spammable and a very strong cleave. If it’s a symbol, every deep guards will just pick it and ditch the virtue trait in a heart beat. I’ll cleave every bodies instead of trying to stomp. Not to mention Hammer is already a good CC weapon to deny all the res…

In the end of the day, it’s up to ANET. If it’s too strong, it will see a nerf eventually.

Iris Ng.9845:

In the end of the day, it’s up to ANET. If it’s too strong, it will see a nerf eventually.

The way it is now, it’s already nerfed.

EDIT: if you drop the virtues line you lose UC. Effectively traiding one 20% for another.

cranos.5913:

Iris Ng.9845:

In the end of the day, it’s up to ANET. If it’s too strong, it will see a nerf eventually.

The way it is now, it’s already nerfed.

EDIT: if you drop the virtues line you lose UC. Effectively traiding one 20% for another.

Then Anet already thinks it’s powerful.

UC only work pre-engagement or as randomly as passive proc. While symbol is a bonus required set up, smite as symbol is as brainless easy as it can get.

I’d be fine with the 20% cooldown(and 10% in scepter), more smites would be great… if you choose that trait which still has competition with Fiery Wrath 10% on any weapon. Wrathful Spirits needs to be reworked as well though.

As a Guardian enthusiast I can only give my feedback on Guardian.

Guardian:

Zeal:

Minors:

Zealot’s Speed: (This trait’s name has been wrong since beta)

No comment on the rest, they are pretty good, and giving Burning to Symbols is a nice addition.

Adept:

Wrathful Spirit: They give too much credit to Retaliation. Three seconds of Retaliation is definitely not worth it, not even if you change it to all kinds of blocks (besides Shelter). A 5 seconds Retaliation with a 10 second cooldown would be good as a trait itself, but nothing competes with Fiery Wrath, and also hinders the synergy with the Retribution (10% damage when having Retaliation) since you can’t pick it. With the new Mace damage with symbols focus, giving Retaliation like that would have to be on block/blind/immobilize to give variety to Sword/Mace/Scepter.

Fiery Wrath: With burning stacking in intensity, this is getting somewhat of a nerf, but being pigeonholed into this trait with such a balanced but uncomparable buff is a bad choice by design.

Zealous Scepter: Unless Smite becomes a Symbol to benefit from traits/or this gets more might/damage modifiers, since personal damage is already happening with Symbol traits, Scepter will be dropped, perhaps even for bosses with large hitboxes that get hit by 16 hits.

Master:

Binding Jeopardy: This trait is pretty good, getting a small nerf on immobilize stacks but upping the duration, swapping this and Zealous Scepter would be a really good choice, because it would have you choose between a self damage increase (for optimal groups) and a group damage increase (with Scepter(immob), Sword(blind)), although considering how many immobilizations you have compared to blinds makes immobilizations less attractive.

Zealous Blade: Good before, even better now, this trait is not a pigeonhole like Fiery Wrath but it’s a really strong pick that defines a great burst with the DPS rotation on the GS builds.

Kindled Zeal: Please, just scrap this, this line has nothing to do with conditions besides two or three traits that don’t do almost anything to conditions. Also, no one even touched it when we had Amplified Wrath, now it’s even worse.

Grandmaster:

Expeditious Spirit: Spirit Weapons have always been my favorites, but Spirit Weapons are already conceptually bad, with the exception of the very important Shield of the Avenger. Wrathful Spirit merging with this trait would be a nice addition, but Spirit Weapons are still a bit squishy. Would love to use this trait, but let’s get to the other ones.

Shattered Aegis: I seriously have no idea how good or bad this trait and how it scales with Power/Precision/Ferocity and if it crits.

Symbolic Avenger: After years of not picking a Grandmaster for much better options, finally a respectable trait that looks overpowered, but is not since you do not have 100% Symbol uptime. For PvE this is the only trait you can pick, the damage bonus with Symbolic Power completely shifts the meta from Sword to Mace, spamming light fields, vulnerability, burn and regeneration with Mace, protection with Hammer. This is the kind of trait that kind of forces you to take Symbols that benefit everyone but Elementalists when you don’t have a Phalanx Warrior.

Radiance:

Minors: Still very strong, Radiant Power was nerfed compared to it’s flat 10%, but helps with critting. Although it’s a very big critical chance addition, it’s not a 10% damage increase.

Adept:

Healer’s Retribution: Retaliation has been heavily nerfed a while ago, either buff them or buff the duration of the current applications. Healing skills on Guardian have such a long cooldown no one is picking this, and the uptime for it won’t make you waste a Shelter to get 10% damage for 3 seconds.

Inner Fire: A much appreciated change that changes you from a suicide guy that wants to be burned to a reward from burning enemies, which you’ve always done.
Better for when you don’t need Fury from a Persisting Flames Elementalist, which means this one is better for Solos, probably.

Right-Handed Strength: Kind of weird to see this as an Adept, but a welcome change. Scepter, Mace and Focus benefit from this, but the Sword cooldown is nothing to make you use it, since Zealot’s Defense is very situationally used for projectiles and Flashing Blade is for movement/occasional blinds.

Master:

Wrath of Justice: So much wrath in everything, chill. Still have to wait a while to see how this trait works, looks pretty good, not sure if it fits Major or not.

Retribution: Flat damage for the Retaliation you’re probably getting from Virtues, light field blasting, Symbol of Wrath and other sources, kind of forces you to pick it for PvE, but Radiant Fire is definitely not bad.

Radiant Fire: Will have to see how the new mechanic works, I hope it’s an F4. Good to see a lot of burning focused into a trait line.

Grandmaster:

Amplified Wrath: A very good trait for Burning builds, Shelter will make this incredible for when you’re being heavily burst, and Mace/Focus will also help some more, though also shifting not only direct damage but burning damage to symbols and blocks, which means even more Mace (I love Mace though, gotta hate that ranged autoattack).

Perfect Inscriptions: Before the math from Amplified Wrath vs Perfect Inscriptions kicks in, I’d probably pick this trait only for the damage buff to Bane Signet.

Radiant Retaliation: This trait has been long forgotten, but now this specialization gives you the choice from Burning or Retaliation through your Condition Damage. I hope it works in the future, and I hope Retaliation is actually as good as Burning.

Valor:

I only have three comments for this trait line, although it’s going to be forgotten even for Cleric builds.

Stalwart Defender: Shield has sucked since day one for PvE. If you want Protection, bring Hammer. The damage on Shield of Judgment is bad. If you want projectile defense, you have Wall, Shield of the Avenger and even Sanctuary. The only thing there is the small heal and the knockback. Having Shield being reworked giving short-timed Aegis as a baseline on both or one skill and having Shield of Absorption not rooting and just giving the heal right away (or not) would actually make this a good pick. Having the same trait and not touching Shield (I’m not even talking about PvE here anymore since Meditation Hammer killed Bunker Guardian) will make many sad.

Communal Defenses: This trait is counter-productive, since you have to block to apply Aegis, and in an environment in which you are hit in less than 5 seconds after you’ve blocked, this trait is not as good.

Retributive Armor: Putting this in Valor, a DPS trait when you have Monk’s Focus is a pretty hard pick. Not sure if it’s bad or not since it has changed a bit to make you even more tankier after blocking.

Honor:

Minors: VERY good synergy, respect.

Adept:

Invigorated Bulwark: Cleric Guardian time! Although since it’s applied only on block, getting that trait, even with Mace/Focus, given the general cooldowns on our available blocks (besides Protector’s Strike) doesn’t give this trait a lot of love.

Shield of Absorption: No comment, good merging.

Protector’s Impact: Jumping puzzle trait, no comment.

Master:

Honorable Staff: A trait that values Staff for what it is, a boon giver. Very bad choice to put Empowering Might in the same tier, they synergize pretty well.

Pure of Heart: I don’t remember having touched this kind of trait (on Aegis removal) once.

Empowering Might: The only way to make this trait good is removing the internal cooldown (and maybe decreasing the duration).

Grandmaster:

All of the traits are very strong picks, one for condition, one for direct healing and one for general symbol improvement. One good Grandmaster tier.

Virtues: This trait line is what defines the utility of a PvE Guardian, it cannot and will not be dropped in the dungeon/fractal environment.

Minor: No comment, all the same good spot.

Adept:

Unscathed Contender: Our still awesome damage increase if you can keep it, making it a choice between Master of Consecrations turns this into a very hard and situational choice, making it quite balanced.

Retaliatory Subconscious: Compare this to UC/MoC. Are you kidding me?

Master of Consecrations: With Consecrated Ground being baseline, an even stronger
trait, awesome for significantly improving our loved consecrations.

Master:

Supreme Justice: A nice pick for when you don’t need the condition cleansing/durability of Absolute Resolution.

Absolute Resolution: The cleansing backup for the Guardian with a durability increase, always welcome almost everywhere.

Virtuous Mallet: Hammer does not belong here, although this looks like quite a strong trait. Swapping Hammer with Staff would be a very smart choice, although you can’t really compete with Absolute Resolution here.

Grandmaster:

Permeating Wrath: Looks like Radiance and Virtues will give lots of love to Burning (Yes, I know PvE is direct damage right now). Only good change would be targeting the enemy instead of yourself when you actually want to range something (with Longbow!!)

Battle Presence: Swapping this with Purity of Body was one of the smartest (or obvious) changes I’ve seen so far, the synergy is really good and commendable.

Indomitable Courage: This trait is when for when stuff gets rough. Defensively, probably the best and most Grandmastery Grandmaster trait for it’s active. Shielded Mind has always been good but not picked because of other important traits, but now it’s incredible as the only AoE break stun in the game, also giving Stability.

Final notes:
Thanks for all the support, and I really hope this feedback is considered.

Good luck to Elementalists and Necromancers, I may not feel your pain but Necromancers should definitely get some group support and damage to make them wanted, while the variety of Elementalists is something that gives builds room to grow.

tl;dr: Really good additions, but Guardian still has some useless traits and now, probably more than one useless weapon (I’m looking at you, Shield).

At this point i dont even care if necros get no new group support. I just want their traitlines to not be a mess. And for us to actually have reasons for each line. For the other classes each line is focused towards a certain role. However on necro its completely locked in with little to no variation. For example curses is now condi apart from the minors and 1 master trait. Death Magic is all minions apart from a few bad traits in each line. And Blood magic is still just a complete mess and horrible for everyone.

Have they wrecked Necro that much or has it been like this for a while?

It was already bad. But this was a good oppotunity to put all the useless blood magic traits together and add more options for different types of builds in each line. They avoided those issues entirely. And didnt even attempt to address the main flaws of necro such as lack of active defence, scaling sustain/defence, group support and finishers.

All condi grandmasters in a precision/condi line which has some good power traits in the lower tiers is the biggest joke ive seen. And then nerfing deathly invigoration and moving it to blood grandmaster is so bad its not even funny. Blood is an even bigger mess than it is currently. And death is such a shame because it could be a really good defensive line if it wasnt completely crowded by too many minion traits.

All that said. Its not really as if anything on necro has been nerfed numbers wise (apart from target the weak becoming crit chance instead of damage mods). Its just so much doesnt make any sense and the atrocious lines that noone used are even worse. Its like every class has taken 2 steps forward but necro has taken 2 steps forward and 1 step back. Resulting in a comparative nerf.

Necro is playing Tango? Ele is probably Moonwalking.

Rising Dusk.2408:

So I’ve been reviewing what people are saying about Guardian, and I think it’s probably in a pretty good state, although there are some false choices available in the trait selections and Scepter/Sword really don’t pick up nearly as much as the other weapons. Scepter Smite not being a symbol is pretty harsh given the natural synergy other weapons get with their symbols, for instance.

Guardian

• Adept Zeal is a false choice; Fiery Wrath is always the best choice. Zealous Scepter is horribly bad and the Retaliation when Aegis ends is far too weak to consider. Zealous Scepter should apply 1 stack of might for 5 seconds when you deal damage with a Scepter equipped, no ICD. That would actually synergize with things like Smite Condition and a well-placed Smite.
• Right Hand Strength should reduce cooldowns for Sword and Scepter, not just Sword.
• Adept Radiance is another false choice because Right Hand Strength is always what you want. Again, Retaliation on heal is nowhere near worth a trait slot.
• Shield is still bad compared to Focus. The shield trait should apply Aegis to all allies affected by Shield skills to really be worth taking anywhere (and echo that to the bubble on revive trait).

Some other notes about things that are still bad and will never see the light of day that we should mention here so the devs see it.

• Radiant Retaliation is another false choice and needs to actually do something other than swap governing stats or it will never be worth taking. A condition build will literally never opt to have Retaliation scale with Power over Amplified Wrath.

Other than the fact that Scepter and Sword definitely need something to ensure they don’t get lost from builds because they lack symbols, the Guardian changes are overall pretty welcome. Right Hand Strength helping scepter cooldowns and Zealous Scepter being an actually good trait to use over Fiery Wrath would be the biggest helps here. Of course, Smite becoming “Symbol of Smiting” would also be pretty great. Sword will still need some DPS boosting or another trait looking at it to ensure that it is relevant even without a symbol.

Maybe replace Empowering Might (weak low duration might with an ICD) with something like this:

Vengeful Arbiter: When you critical hit with a Sword equipped, Flashing Blade is recharged. Sword attacks deal 10% more damage. 8 second ICD. (Won’t trigger unless Flashing Blade is on CD)

Fun trait that would help with vuln stacking in PvE and offer engage mobility in WvW/PvP but only if already in combat with a sword. Sword is weak in PvP anyway

I’m looking at Mesmer stuff next.

Smite definitely should get play tested as a symbol with these new changes, if it’s too strong that way it can always either get its dame slightly reduced to bring it in line or change it back.
I disagree with sword being weak in PvP, I ran s/f gs on my medi guard for quite a while and with all the current sword traits it is pretty strong outside of team fights, it just makes you too squishy past a 2v2. With the possible additional boost to crit chance it’ll be even stronger, but it needs to keep that 10% damage mod somewhere in the trait line. What you are suggesting about flashing blade will break sword for PvP. S/F GS already had a lot of available blind to it.

Several suggestions I see would be a real problem in PvP, but maybe now is the time to push for trait splitting from PvE and PvP. They cut out a large number of traits, it won’t be nearly the work they said was too much before. It would solve so many problems if they just split them.

Iris Ng.9845:

Necro is playing Tango? Ele is probably Moonwalking.

Difference is ele can take 3 steps back and still be ahead of every class in every gametype. :>

Not that i support the nerfing of ele. Its basically my second main. But the only thing i dislike is the butchering of air magic and as a result D/F. But even with that i will still be confident in it remaining top tier and one of my most played.

Radiance is awful. Don;t be too caught up in replicating the old meta. With Precision removed from Radiance and with the nature of Symbolic Avenger being the bread and butter of PvE guardian now, it’s clear that Honor is far, far better for Guardian than Radiance.

NikeEU.7690:

Radiance is awful. Don;t be too caught up in replicating the old meta. With Precision removed from Radiance and with the nature of Symbolic Avenger being the bread and butter of PvE guardian now, it’s clear that Honor is far, far better for Guardian than Radiance.

Blind Spam? 25% crit under burning? 10% damage under retal?

Honor surely looks pretty, but radiance seems quite nice still, unless there’s something I’m missing?

I imagine there will be different trait setups for different situations to a greater extreme than currently though.

Blind spam hasnt been relevant since Thief became standard in pve teams. 25% crit chance under burning is nice but not a game changer. 10% under retaliation is interesting but your retaliation uptime isn’t very meaningful.

Honor has… Mace cool downs (more symbol uptime), EM (a bit of might to fill in the gap for PS warrior) and Longer symbols. Longer symbols is basically the Persisting Flames for Guardians. Getting an extra tick or two out of each symbol is far, far higher dps than you’ll get from 10% under retalition. Especially given that having 100% symbol uptime = more vuln = 20% dps mod uptime = more direct damage.

GS+Mace/Focus with Zeal/Honor/Virtues is just absurdly good looking.

NikeEU.7690:

Blind spam hasnt been relevant since Thief became standard in pve teams. 5% crit chance under burning is nice but not a game changer. 10% under retaliation is interesting but your retaliation uptime isn’t very meaningful.

Honor has… Mace cool downs (more symbol uptime), EM (a bit of might to fill in the gap for PS warrior) and Longer symbols. Longer symbols is basically the Persisting Flames for Guardians. Getting an extra tick or two out of each symbol is far, far higher dps than you’ll get from 10% under retalition. Especially given that having 100% symbol uptime = more vuln = 20% dps mod uptime = more direct damage.

GS+Mace/Focus with Zeal/Honor/Virtues is just absurdly good looking.

Yeah, I don’t always run with thieves so I still like my VOJ spam and with burning stacking? /shrug

And was that a typo saying just 5%? we’re talking 25%, IE get to 50% crit, suddenly you’re at 75% crit, add fury and you’re almost capped, banner and you’re over the top 100% crit.

I have no doubt that honor will be huge, but I don’t think radiance is awful at all, just might no longer be meta.

You are forgetting radiant fire. They explained on stream that this refreshed your torch skill and allows you to throw it everytime it procs. This is a huge DPS boost for single targets. Throwing a torch 4 every 6 seconds is just LOL.

http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/gw2-radiant-fire.jpg

Mhm, that or a flat 10% with retal.

One thing I’m curious on, I assume the symbolic avenger will be in your symbols only, but if it’s just in A symbol, 2 guard teams have some synergetic possibilities. Used for optimized settings, naw, but for easymode fractals? Hammer guard 66060, GS/X+Focus(or torch) with 66006?

10% with retaliation seems really bad. in practice that probably works out to a 3% overall buff, if that.

The torch trait is interesting, but has the drawback of having to use Torch instead of focus. And ofcourse getting 2 extra damage ticks per symbol and maintaining 100% symbolic avenger uptime is ridiculously good. I don’t see much comparison really.

That turns the Mace symbol into a 3.5 coefficient. turns the gs symbol into a 3.85 coefficient. Those are going to be among the hardest hitting skills in the game, not even counting the passive benefits each has and the 20% from symbolic avenger and symbolic exposure. In group play, the benefits of Symbolic Exposure are probably the most important of all.

NikeEU.7690:

10% with retaliation seems really bad. in practice that probably works out to a 3% overall buff, if that.

The torch trait is interesting, but has the drawback of having to use Torch instead of focus. And ofcourse getting 2 extra damage ticks per symbol and maintaining 100% symbolic avenger uptime is ridiculously good. I don’t see much comparison really.

That turns the Mace symbol into a 3.5 coefficient. turns the gs symbol into a 3.85 coefficient. Those are going to be among the hardest hitting skills in the game, not even counting the passive benefits each has and the 20% from symbolic avenger and symbolic exposure. In group play, the benefits of Symbolic Exposure are probably the most important of all.

3%? so you’re assuming only1/3 of the time uptime?

I figured with all the potential light fields, and bringing and engi around will now mean blasts for days, it should be easy to keep retal going.

Not doubting you on Honor line, just trying to get a full feel of everything. I think radiance will still hold a place for when I want blind spam (again, don’t always run with thief/engi) and overall not a bad place when you can get 25% crit chance, pretty consistent fury or 15% more crit chance in case I wanted that. 10% from retal, then Amplified Wrath or Perfected Inscriptions.

I’m curious to see what meta will be, but also want to investigate all the possible synergies to see if I can find things stronger than meta for different situations or group compositions. I think the changes have opened things up a bit for that possibility.

NikeEU.7690:

10% with retaliation seems really bad. in practice that probably works out to a 3% overall buff, if that..

I disagree about the retaliation trait. GS + Mace/X build will certainly take Virtue as a trait line and Virtue of Retribution is one of the minor trait. This give 3.25sec of retaliation each time you activate a virtue. Against a boss, you won’t have a high retaliation uptime, but against a group of mobs, F1 Spam will probably give you perma retaliation.

Im sure groups can adapt to blast some light fields for retal. :P

This is the Comeback of LH-eles for blasting light fields.

Lendruil.9061:

This is the Comeback of LH-eles for blasting light fields.

Why? Just get an Engi in a 66060 build, have them roll around a bit both doing damage and blasting light fields Or 66600 and keep popping med kit for additional blasts.

<3 Engi, see so many possibilities, 66006 will still likely be meta, but I think some other builds will have nice things without too big of a damage loss.

i think 1guardian 1thief 1w and 2eles are still going to be meta for dungeons. Glyph of storm and meteor shower are not going to get touched so ele can do the same thing as icebow for the frontloaded damage. Thief War and Guard are also going to be extra amazing with the traits shown last friday.

They said Icebow is getting nerfed. That doesnt mean it wont still be good for frontload burst.

i assume icebow 4 going to get a 70%damage reduction just like FGS.

spoj.9672:

They said Icebow is getting nerfed. That doesnt mean it wont still be good for frontload burst.

No, doesn’t necessarily mean it’ll be destroyed, but I’m with Eco on this one and saying the safe bet is it won’t be usable.

EcoRI.9273:

i assume icebow 4 going to get a 70%damage reduction just like FGS.

70% damage nerf and cd increase from 60 to 180 would put it in the same level as fgs which is an elite. From simple utility skill to a skill that competes with elite… this is a buff!

If it wont be usable then its the same as being destroyed. Im skeptical that they will go as far as they did with FGS. FGS was broken because of the way you could use it. Icebow is only broken because the coefficients are a bit high. They are very different. Besides Icebow 4 only needs to average a higher total coefficient than regular build rotations for it still to be considered worth while burst. Which means it can take a substantial damage nerf and still be viable for burst. Especially on large targets.