Guild Wars 2

Could also see ilussionary leap and mirror images combo depending on how strong the mental torment and mind wrack buffs end up being. Then summoning the phantasms. All depends on how strong mental torment ends up being.

Perhaps mesmers could use a skill/trait/rune set that gives aegis to illusions every few seconds (3 maybe, or 5?). I’d probably not make too much of an impact in PvP, but with the slow boss autoattacks in PvE I think it might be really helpful for keeping them alive for a reasonable amount of time.

Or just give them more vitality in PvE.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Jerus.4350:

Your rotation makes sense Dusk, but the same problem that’s always been ther will still be there, likely you’ll have to shatter those things much sooner than that in many cases so they don’t simply die on you.

If you do, post-patch that’ll be fine given how strong Mind Wrack will be. I cannot stress enough that Mind Wrack is pretty decent burst already, and with a potential +75% layered on top of that alongside increased precision from Master of Fragmentation and the fact that you get Illusionary Persona for free makes the burst extreme. Shattering is going to be awesome, trust me, and you won’t look at shattering like its a bad thing.

There is a fairly good chance that 50% trait won’t make it to live.

Then Mesmer will remain in the dumpster where it is.

Titanimite.2534:

Then Mesmer will remain in the dumpster where it is.

Strange, is taht the dumpster where we pull multiple of the same profession for speed runs out of? Are they hanging in there with Ele/thief/war?

Mesmers are anything but trash, they just have the worlds worst profession mechanic.

Jerus.4350:

Titanimite.2534:

Then Mesmer will remain in the dumpster where it is.

Strange, is taht the dumpster where we pull multiple of the same profession for speed runs out of? Are they hanging in there with Ele/thief/war?

Mesmers are anything but trash, they just have the worlds worst profession mechanic.

Necro says :“Hi!!!”.

Sagat.3285:

Jerus.4350:

Titanimite.2534:

Then Mesmer will remain in the dumpster where it is.

Strange, is taht the dumpster where we pull multiple of the same profession for speed runs out of? Are they hanging in there with Ele/thief/war?

Mesmers are anything but trash, they just have the worlds worst profession mechanic.

Necro says :“Hi!!!”.

What’s a necro?

Jerus.4350:

Sagat.3285:

Jerus.4350:

Titanimite.2534:

Then Mesmer will remain in the dumpster where it is.

Strange, is taht the dumpster where we pull multiple of the same profession for speed runs out of? Are they hanging in there with Ele/thief/war?

Mesmers are anything but trash, they just have the worlds worst profession mechanic.

Necro says :“Hi!!!”.

What’s a necro?

It’s the practice dummy they let out of alpha.

Jerus.4350:

Titanimite.2534:

Then Mesmer will remain in the dumpster where it is.

Strange, is taht the dumpster where we pull multiple of the same profession for speed runs out of? Are they hanging in there with Ele/thief/war?

Mesmers are anything but trash, they just have the worlds worst profession mechanic.

Don’t really see how their proffession mechanic is the worst. I think they kind of balanced them wrong though. They basically balance mes for max dps, ignoring that it has ramp up time and is mitigatable by aoe/offense.

phys.7689:

Jerus.4350:

Titanimite.2534:

Then Mesmer will remain in the dumpster where it is.

Strange, is taht the dumpster where we pull multiple of the same profession for speed runs out of? Are they hanging in there with Ele/thief/war?

Mesmers are anything but trash, they just have the worlds worst profession mechanic.

Don’t really see how their proffession mechanic is the worst. I think they kind of balanced them wrong though. They basically balance mes for max dps, ignoring that it has ramp up time and is mitigatable by aoe/offense.

That’s it, it’s just completely impractical. The amount of times you can actually reach your potential is very small. And even when you do you’re mediocre

Jerus.4350:

phys.7689:

Jerus.4350:

Titanimite.2534:

Then Mesmer will remain in the dumpster where it is.

Strange, is taht the dumpster where we pull multiple of the same profession for speed runs out of? Are they hanging in there with Ele/thief/war?

Mesmers are anything but trash, they just have the worlds worst profession mechanic.

Don’t really see how their proffession mechanic is the worst. I think they kind of balanced them wrong though. They basically balance mes for max dps, ignoring that it has ramp up time and is mitigatable by aoe/offense.

That’s it, it’s just completely impractical. The amount of times you can actually reach your potential is very small. And even when you do you’re mediocre

Yup. Mesmer are balance for PvP. They have huge burst of damage with their illusions. But they have terrible dps. Now even with 3 phantasm up they are at the bottom in term of dps. They should be one of the best dps profession for PvE since they can’t reach their max potentiel all the time.

I think having absolutely no utility or group buffs is bigger justification for being the best dps profession in PvE.

spoj.9672:

I think having absolutely no utility or group buffs is bigger justification for being the best dps profession in PvE.

I’d be all for making Necro the best DPS if they don’t want to give it support. Then at least it would make sense. They need a niche somewhere.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Mesmers actually got a lot of very strong enhancements with the specialization changeover. They gained a really awesome +10% damage vs. Vulnerability suffering foes minor trait in Domination, and that coupled with the natural boost to Mind Wrack damage, the Mental Torment bonus of up to 50% damage to Mind Wrack damage, and the possibility of packing Master of Fragmentation, and I think Mesmers will be shattering a lot more frequently post-patch.

I expect the rotation to look something like this:

1. Start in OH Sword, summon Swordsman
2. Swap to OH Pistol, summon Duelist
3. Use Signet of the Ether
4. Summon Duelist
5. Use standard attacking DPS rotation until Signet of the Ether is off cooldown, ending in OH Sword
6. Mind Wrack in melee for huge burst since you’re now the fourth illusion by default
7. Repeat from 1

The biggest thoughts on what Mesmers have post-patch are as follows:

• Loss of Empowering Mantras is a huge DPS hit to Mesmers, hurting their DPS more than they gain from other new traits. Harmonious Mantras is insufficient at making up the difference, and Mantras will be mostly removed from PvE play as a build option (especially considering the new strengths of the Inspiration line).
  • A good fix here would be to make Harmonious Mantras work as follows:
  • Harmonious Mantras: Mantras can be activated three times before needing to be channeled again. Gain a 3% damage bonus for each Mantra equipped to your skill bar.
  • This will make Mantras valuable to bring, but they won’t be mandatory in all builds. This also allows you to actually use mantras and retain the damage boost, which is important so players don’t just sit on them charged.
  • This also gives the Dueling line a proper damage-boosting GM trait, which is great.
• Mesmers are in the unenviable position of really wanting four trait lines in PvE. In PvE Domination and Dueling will be mandatory, and the last will depend on if you want reflect and further Glamour support (longer Time Warp) or extra damage from Compounding Power, Phantasmal Haste, and Master of Fragmentation.
  • I honestly don’t think this is a bad thing, and I think this will encourage some build diversity in PvE depending on if you want Inspiration’s support or Illusions’ damage. That’s cool with me.
• I do want to mention that Descent into Madness is a pretty poor trait that will never see use and could use an extra effect to actually justify bringing it anywhere other than when you expect to do a jumping puzzle. This isn’t a big deal, however.

Other than all that, I think Mesmers are in a great place.

surprised you guys arent more impressed by HMs buff aspect.
4% crit dmg (i assume) per use, with 8 second duration.
theoretically you could up your crit dmg by 48% for like 5 seconds.

of course after that your utilities are blown, but dont you dungeon dps dudes optimize for 10-20 second fights?

Jerus.4350:

Mesmers are anything but trash, they just have the worlds worst profession mechanic.

Yeah, right, dude. For sure.

Mesmer needs a real Grandmaster for PvE, that’s it.

deSade.9437:

Jerus.4350:

Mesmers are anything but trash, they just have the worlds worst profession mechanic.

Yeah, right, dude. For sure.

Bring Mesmer to Tequatl and Triple Wurm to enjoy its seldom glory in the open world. Mesmer hits the third hardest after ele and ranger.

spoj.9672:

I think having absolutely no utility or group buffs is bigger justification for being the best dps profession in PvE.

Maybe, but then Necro would need to have a serious nerf to their survivability to be balanced.

Was that a joke?

Thaddeus.4891:

spoj.9672:

I think having absolutely no utility or group buffs is bigger justification for being the best dps profession in PvE.

Maybe, but then Necro would need to have a serious nerf to their survivability to be balanced.

Not funny

No. Thief and Elementalist have a really low survivability (both in PvE and PvP) to reach their top dps. It would be kind of broken if Necro could have both a Top dps and a good survivability (because of their deathshroud).

Thief has stealth, blink, immob and kitten loads of evade. Ele has boon, aura, passive heal and a multitude of instant cast.

Necro has crit… on low projectiles, DS which isn’t easily charged, few stun break and an elite that says “I am desperate”. Necro is the biggest baby to be carried around in PvP and WvW.

Thaddeus.4891:

No. Thief and Elementalist have a really low survivability (both in PvE and PvP) to reach their top dps. It would be kind of broken if Necro could have both a Top dps and a good survivability (because of their deathshroud).

Thief/Ele have low health, but they have loads of active defense tools. Necro has…deathshroud. We all know how much better avoiding damage is than mitigating it, and necros only option is through mitigation…

Jerus.4350:

Thaddeus.4891:

No. Thief and Elementalist have a really low survivability (both in PvE and PvP) to reach their top dps. It would be kind of broken if Necro could have both a Top dps and a good survivability (because of their deathshroud).

Thief/Ele have low health, but they have loads of active defense tools. Necro has…deathshroud. We all know how much better avoiding damage is than mitigating it, and necros only option is through mitigation…

Maybe, but Thief and Ele don’t have access to many of those tools when they are build for max damage. What i’m sure is that if they just buff Necro dps to be the best or one of the best, they will be a OP profession. They need to change something else to balance things out.

Ele still has burning retreat and sandstorm in max DPS setup as well as personal reflect available and not to mention Earth Ele to help out.

Thief you can still slip in a Death blossom if you time it right and need the extra evade. And you can even just slot withdraw.

Not going to comment on PVP stuff because I don’t know it that well, but I highly doubt Ele or Thief are running bare bones max damage.

Either way Necro don’t even have a vigor trait, they have no option to get projectil defense, no blocks, no extra evade frames, and their blinds are mediocre at best. ALL they have is deathshroud, I don’t see how they can be called OP for having too much survivability.

I may sound like a jerk (again), but the necro is just a class that was BORN wrong. The design behind it, behind deathshroud, behind the weapons, the traits… it’s all wrong. I think they just can’t be bothered to fix it, and will content themselves with having it “okayish” or “viable” for pvp.
Then again, I don’t read minds. I’m just trying to make spoj cry.

Jerus.4350:

I don’t see how they can be called OP for having too much survivability.

They are not op. And it’s not their surviability that would make them OP. But if they got the best dps of the game, then yes they will be OP. To be on top of the dps chart, they would need to receive around 50-60% buff to their damage. Can you imagine a Power Necro in PvP or Necro’s wells in WvW with a 50-60% buff? That would be insane.

Well considering it’s probably never going to happen, not really worth worrying about. But, I’m sure there are ways they can keep the impact down on PVP/WVW.

Jerus.4350:

Well considering it’s probably never going to happen, not really worth worrying about. But, I’m sure there are ways they can keep the impact down on PVP/WVW.

True. I’m sure they can find way to make Necro interesting in PvE. And it ’’could’’ happen with HoT.

- Make condition a competitive option in term of dps vs direct damage build. Necro is already good at condition damage. With the right gear, no restriction on stack and condition affected with either vulnerability or damage modifier, necro will have a build that is not on the bottom of the dps chart.
- Give him a bit of support and direct damage build. GS could be a great oportunity to give a cleaving weapon with a good auto-attack. Add some blind, vulnerability and weakness in there and you have something to start working with. Maybe not ideal, but it won’t break PvP and WvW and you can then tweak it until Necro reach a decent place in PvE.

Well, chronos seems pretty pretty interesting.

i think necro is going to get some powerful enemy debilitating skills. and ways to benefit players, with new mechanics.

chronomacer introduces alacrity, and implies mes unique thing is going to be cool down management for allies.

alacrity+quickness is a pretty strong combo.

Thaddeus.4891:

Can you imagine a Power Necro in PvP or Necro’s wells in WvW with a 50-60% buff? That would be insane.

Well, we already have that while downed, seems fine to me =P

Necro has very very little defense. I agree with spoj about the utilities and group support part.

In sPvP, you can spec any classes for pure DPS but each of them has their own ways to make an escape when things go wrong:

• War has Berserker Stance, Defy Pain (Trait), Rush and Whirlwind attack (gsword skill)
• Ele has Obsidian Flesh, Lightning Flash, FGS, Renewing Stamina
• Mesmer has Deceptive Evasion, Distortion, Blink, Decoy, (sometimes Portal)
• Ranger has Hunter’s Shot, Swoop, Counter Attack, Hornet Sting, Signet of Stone
• Engi has Slick Shoes or Elixir S, Gear Shield, Jump Shot
• Guardian, lol, I don’t even want to count, block, block, passive block, invuln, and another block!
• Thief has Stealth and Port
  In comparison, Necro have Wurm and Spectral Walk but taking them meaning less power to Power Necro. DS is only a small part to mitigate the damage when the Necro is locked down in place but they cannot heal or cleanse the condi when in DS. The moment when they get out of DS to heal is the right moment people interrupt the necro and kill them. Necro has Fear, but it can be cleansed and the Mark can be dodged.

The entire mechanics of this class just seems insufficient.

phys.7689:

i think necro is going to get some powerful enemy debilitating skills. and ways to benefit players, with new mechanics.

chronomacer introduces alacrity, and implies mes unique thing is going to be cool down management for allies.

alacrity+quickness is a pretty strong combo.

Wait, that sounds like Revenant!

Necro is only safe in sPvP when people dont focus it. Any half decent player should know to CC and focus the necro. They become trash tier when thats done. So no i dont think increasing their damage would break them in PvP. They are still severely limited in sPvP. They just work well as a hotjoin class due to the ease of the class.

Besides I wouldnt be increasing damage on DS. It would be through traits, skills and rotations that require effort and investment to pull off. Think of it this way. GS warrior is good dps but noone takes it in sPvP anymore because it doesnt really work. Thats the kind of damage increase i would suggest if they were going to go down the damage route.

But like Jerus said. Its unlikely they will do anything like that so its pointless worrying about it. I would take extra active defence and group utility as a priority personally. Lich + Well burst is enough damage if we had some other stuff in addition to it. And we didnt have to get carried on some encounters.

Just a thought about your comparison.
Greatsword (warrior) wasn’t popular in sPvP because people don’t know how to play it right. They use the auto attack and 100b pointlessly and that makes it weak. It’s really strong in burst (Whirlwind Attack), chase (Rush, Bladetrail) and finally cleave (100b, Arcing Slide). Anyhow, more wars start playing greatsword in Q now.

what does pvp have anything to do with dungeon balance?

maha.7902:

what does pvp have anything to do with dungeon balance?

Because PVP is what determines how bad or good a profession is allowed to be.

Iris Ng.9845:

Just a thought about your comparison.
Greatsword (warrior) wasn’t popular in sPvP because people don’t know how to play it right. They use the auto attack and 100b pointlessly and that makes it weak. It’s really strong in burst (Whirlwind Attack), chase (Rush, Bladetrail) and finally cleave (100b, Arcing Slide). Anyhow, more wars start playing greatsword in Q now.

Yeah but my point is you cant just faceroll it. For 100b the target needs to be immobile in front of you. There is setup required. If the dps stuff is on stuff which isnt as practical in a PvP environment (players move and evade) then its pretty safe to implement without imbalancing sPvP.

maha.7902:

what does pvp have anything to do with dungeon balance?

If we could just ignore PvP then necros wouldnt be in this problem to begin with. They would have surely recieved PvE buffs to resolve their lack of popularity. Unfortunately the game balance isnt split like that. :P

PvP determines the threshold of how much buff a class will get.

Does dungeon ever need balance? I hope it gets a buff in terms of content.

@Spoj: Pin Down is OP as hell. You could also Blade Trail. Or with more finery, Reckless Dodge on swap to proc Hydromancy and the Whirlwind Attack.

Might as well have my voice heard.
Ele. Air line is just horrible, bolt to the heart and fresh air both in grandmaster and no air training? Adept is completely lacking. I like my DF build ty.
Hammer is only used in dungeons where I say it works just fine. Never used in pvp so why nerf.
I can only think that anet saw IB during teq, but if you’re going to balance it around such a large target it might become even worse than flame axe.

Trickster Foxy.5074:

Might as well have my voice heard.
Ele. Air line is just horrible, bolt to the heart and fresh air both in grandmaster and no air training? Adept is completely lacking. I like my DF build ty.
Hammer is only used in dungeons where I say it works just fine. Never used in pvp so why nerf.
I can only think that anet saw IB during teq, but if you’re going to balance it around such a large target it might become even worse than flame axe.

Ahh but their new PVP mode is trivialized by LH I guess, so… you know… kitten it right?

Maybe the LH nerf will be removing the blind from the auto chain. That should be enough to bring it in line.

Jerus.4350:

Ahh but their new PVP mode is trivialized by LH I guess, so… you know… kitten it right?

LH is actually pretty awful in Stronghold. S/F burst is strong enough without it to maim all NPCs and doesn’t have to waste a utility slot on LH, freeing it up for Arcane Shield, AoE, and either Signet of Air or Arcane Wave/Blast.

Anyway, I just wanted to let everyone know that I’m sending my first report based on this information tonight. After I get that out, I’ll want to shift the discussion to the other four professions we haven’t reviewed much yet:

1. Thief
2. Warrior
3. Engineer
4. Ranger

Even if we think the changes are overall awesome for PvE balance for a given class, that’s something I’d want to report. Remember we want to consider what builds get lost in the meta with the changes, because those lost builds are things ANet wants to address before release of the changes.

Yeah, I didn’t even do the stronghold thing, just remember reading (i think it was Iris?) that LH was able to easily blind the NPCs allowing trivial kills /shrug.

I’ll try to nitpick Engi and put a list together later, but, really, you could just send them this:

Jerus.4350:

Yeah, I didn’t even do the stronghold thing, just remember reading (i think it was Iris?) that LH was able to easily blind the NPCs allowing trivial kills /shrug.

Yeah you could permablind them with lh. And if lh will be nerfed and mobs will stay the same eles still can drop sandstorm lol. Makes no sense.

If you have an organized group with portal play, an ele can round up the NPC by los and face tank them with LH/iB while the group finish off the Lord. Our group record for Strong hold was less than 1 minute 20 second. I used Lightning Storm instead of Sand Storm.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Anyway, I just wanted to let everyone know that I’m sending my first report based on this information tonight. After I get that out, I’ll want to shift the discussion to the other four professions we haven’t reviewed much yet:

1. Thief
2. Warrior
3. Engineer
4. Ranger

Thief
I don’t have much to say about thief for PvE. Change are small and don’t screw up the meta much. Some change are a little bit annoying, but not game breaking.
- Critical Strikes Grandmaster is lacking. Hidden Killer is pretty useless since we already are near if not at 100% critical chance for a PvE Meta thief. The other options are about pistol (forget about it) and a healing trait. Nothing really appealing to the dungeon meta.
- We have SA as a good third line for better stealth (ok), we have Acro as a good third line for survival (ok), but Trickery is pretty bad as third line for dps, as it work right now. Flaking strike is a huge gamble, not sure is worth the risk since you don’t control when it gonna trigger. And any of the grandmaster trait are worth using for Dungeon meta. Essentially, we gonna take Trickery as a third line only for the grandmaster minor, which is kind of sad.

Warrior
- It’s generalize to pretty much most the lines. I can’t find a trait line where you can choice three major trait that help toward the Dungeon meta. In Strenght it’s the adept that is lacking, while master is only about GS (even if that same line give a axe grandmaster trait). In Arms the adept trait have the same problem. In discipline you have none, Destructing of the Empowered and Burst Mastery don’t work very well in Dungeons. That left us with only tactics that feel complete as you have three major that work with the Dungeon meta.
- Warrior was never a champion of diversity when it come to dungeon meta. It was always GS + Axe/Mace, but you chould choose between a full dps or phalanx build. But now? It’s gonna be one build to rule them all. And worst is the fact that GS camping will be almost our only option. Warrior already didn’t have the most entertaining rotation, now it’s will be so boring to play warrior in dungeon.

Engineer
- We can’t really give feedback since we got almost no information.

Rising Dusk.2408:

1. Engineer

i depend on AMR, stabilized armor, and cloaking device in wvw. but for pve and pvp the engi stuff gets a million thumbs up.

oh oh.

• please have robo legs absorb power shoes
• change kit refinement to activate in combat so it doesnt play mean with speedy kits