all I can say is WOW you guys run a harsh group.
lets see….
magic find gear… do you ask for all gear ping before a dungeon? I mean… that’s elitest right there, can’t deny it. I’m not going to say I wouldn’t rather nobody ran it, and that it’s not selfish, but hey if we can clear the content than fine.
.Unfortunately after many many many many hours of my time wasted by magic finders I am forced to gear check to avoid incident. This is not something I wish to do, but history has not been kind to my parties.
Stats =/= skill
MF = person performing less than what they could be regardless of their skill being higher than the rest of the party.
… and even if it didn’t impact noticeably the performance of the party, I can’t stress enough that it’s just not worth it :
- MF doesn’t affect chests,
- MF doesn’t affect tokens,
- Every skip-able trash mob is skipped,
- Drop rates from trash and even bosses are abysmal anyway (e.g. two blues on Lupi and an odd green when the gods of RNG are particularly clement these days).
On the other hand, repairs on exotic armor are 1s64c a piece. Do the math.
One of these days, I need to try running a dungeon with MF gear…I’ve honestly never tried >_>
I don’t even use MF food…
all I can say is WOW you guys run a harsh group.
lets see….
magic find gear… do you ask for all gear ping before a dungeon? I mean… that’s elitest right there, can’t deny it. I’m not going to say I wouldn’t rather nobody ran it, and that it’s not selfish, but hey if we can clear the content than fine.
.
Unfortunately after many many many many hours of my time wasted by magic finders I am forced to gear check to avoid incident. This is not something I wish to do, but history has not been kind to my parties.
Stats =/= skill
Another one for the block list.
Am I supposed to be offended? I hope not.
Not to hijack this thread into MF, but I don’t use MF. All I use is omnom bars for the gold. I’d rather see if the person is skilled or not instead of saying “You have MF? kick” which is not even as bad as what you’re doing. You’re intentionally blocking me because I don’t despise MF like yourself, which is fine, but completely ignorant.
I am in a big guild and I don’t play a lot with PUG’s, we usually fill the dungeon/fotm teams pretty easy. But when we miss one member and we choose a PUG, they are usually caution and bit afraid they might get kicked out. Like last nite in fotm 38, we took one thief with us (already had a thief in our team). When he saw our thief and guild team of 4 he almost left, but in the end it all went well and the run was pretty smooth.
O well, players and players … not all the same. Some jerks, some elitists, just need to ignore them and play with the ones you like.
I am a relatively casual gamer who has run some dungeons, in my case always with a complete PUG, or my being the outsider in a relatively established group
This thread highlights the basic problem with dungeons…particularly when run with full or partial PUGs….
Those with more experience in the dungeon in question nearly always want it run in a very specific way, with specific tactics, etc. Yet in the vast majority of cases, they are completely unwilling to communicate ANYTHING about what these expectations are. All they do is get kitten off because the other members of the group are not doing what they want them to do. Once again, it boils down to communication or the lack thereof. Useful communication takes effort, and it is apparently easier to remain silent and then kitten when things don’t go according to the “silent plan”.
I have pretty much learned to avoid PUGs for this very reason. They work OK if everyone in the group is relatively relaxed and can keep the game in persepective, but you never know what type of personalities are in the PUG until the difficult parts of the dungeons arise…then you are either greeted with effective leadership/useful suggestions, or confronted with rage and finger pointing. No offense to the OP because he makes some good points in this thread, but I strongly suspect he is of the “rage/finger pointing” type. I have no desire to even play with people like that, every bit as strongly as I doubt he would want to play with me.
So the best advice is to avoid PUGs if you can, that will keep all types of players happy.
This is an unedited post that I spent a small amount of time writing about a month ago. It’s redundant and needed work but I don’t have the time to commit to it right now. I felt bad in not posting it because I believe there’s important information in here for the people that are always kittening “I got kicked from this group for no reason!” Fyi, there’s always a reason, and this is the large majority of reasons my group used to kick TONS of people. Anyway, the post:
Dungeon Etiquette: Attitude and Behavior…
Some decent points, others not so much.
Some encounters can only be done with ranged and going melee is actually rather risky in higher fotm for example.
Some of the things in your “unacceptable” category while detrimental are common for pugs. If you use that as your standard then you’ll be stuck trying to find teammates for a long time.
It would be better to publish a list of TRULY unacceptable things as the absolute baseline where those actions will cause team failure rather than setting the bar so high as to be infeasible for pug teams since most of the things you list are annoyances that can be worked around.
I can agree with most points, but some are just way over the top.
What you forgot:
- Using defensive Equipment (P/V/T or similars).
I do not know any situation in whole GW2 Dungeons where berserker’s equipment wouldn’t be the best choice by far. You just screw down DPS to survive longer yourself. Nothing else. It’s same as doing fight’s ranged that are easily doable melee.
- Not following the advice of more experienced players.
I’ve lately had a 5 Signet Warrior who refused to change his Utility Skills. In the party have also been a P/V/T Guardian without Wall of Reflection, Stand your Ground or Retreat. And a Mesmer using 3 Signets and Hounds of Balthasar. They all didn’t listen, died at fighting, died at running, died at.. everything. And didn’t even do damage.
This thread keeps makeing me luagh keep the entertainment going everyone!
- Not following the advice of more experienced players.
I’ve lately had a 5 Signet Warrior who refused to change his Utility Skills. In the party have also been a P/V/T Guardian without Wall of Reflection, Stand your Ground or Retreat. And a Mesmer using 3 Signets and Hounds of Balthasar. They all didn’t listen, died at fighting, died at running, died at.. everything. And didn’t even do damage.
This is a pet peeve of mine and I’d add it to a list of Dungeon Etiquette for others to follow:
Don’t go demanding others to change their set-ups, be it armor, utilities, traits, etc. It’s very kitteny to go around bossing people like that and it isn’t a necessity for an encounter to have a specific skill or set-up to win. If a warrior wants to run 5 signets, let them run 5 signets. You’re not going to die without FGJ or SiO. If they end up dying even with help, let that be a learning point for them.
—Ranged attacks, Scepter Guardians, Pistol Thieves, Rangers, Rifle Warriors, Thieves
This is a large category but mostly the problem here is ranged attacks. Ranged attacks are not ideal in almost every situation; ranged attacks do less damage and generally have less synergy with other players. Scepter guardians, Rifle Warriors, Pistol Thieves and Rangers are the largest offenders: these builds/weapons offer very little to group situations and strike me as either selfish (the character putting their well being above the groups), lazy, unskilled (can’t dodge effectively) or all of the above. When I see someone playing primarily with ranged attacks it sets off a red flag.
Rangers and Thieves, though… I’ve had a high amount (close to 90%) of bad experiences with people that play these classes. I’ve only seen one — one — ranger use one of their melee alternatives (I want to emphasize this: I’ve run about 6 paths daily since mid September. That’s a lot of dungeons and a lot of rangers). Often I don’t see a ranger contribute in any meaningful way to a group. For example, there is a healing field that rangers have: It’s incredible and I never see it. Why? I just don’t get it. As for thief, well, I don’t think I’ve ever seen one that has been specced towards anything close to support. When I say support I mean ANYTHING that assists the group aside from damage: really, just play warrior or something if that’s all you want to do. There isn’t a whole lot there, sure, but there are things and I never — literally never — have seen a thief build towards them or even have them on the side. So, when I see a thief, I have a mental red flag about the player.
I find it sad that you seem to have experienced bad thieves. However, the thief does not have a whole lot of “support” traits; compared to something as a guardian.
On my thief, I do play something a little different; maybe closer to PVP, but find is hell of fun in dungeons. Still, I try to offer any support I can give.
My main set is Dagger/Pistol + Short Bow.
The Dagger/Pistol gives me two blinds (Shadow Shot and Black Powder) and a Daze (Headshot). While not always effective on bosses; this does help mitigate damage at the melee range in many circumstances.
As for Utilities I primary use Signet of Agility (refills endurance and cures a condition of nearby allies) and Shadow Refuge. Shadow Refuge is rather nice, not because it stealths. I set it up quiet often to allow health regeneration. The physical projectiles through the field allows for Life Steal. My other utility will change based on situation. Mostly I run with Blinding Powder; but will most change to Smoke Screen for projectile reflection.
all I can say is WOW you guys run a harsh group.
lets see….
magic find gear… do you ask for all gear ping before a dungeon? I mean… that’s elitest right there, can’t deny it. I’m not going to say I wouldn’t rather nobody ran it, and that it’s not selfish, but hey if we can clear the content than fine.
.
Unfortunately after many many many many hours of my time wasted by magic finders I am forced to gear check to avoid incident. This is not something I wish to do, but history has not been kind to my parties.
Stats =/= skill
Another one for the block list.
Am I supposed to be offended? I hope not.
Not to hijack this thread into MF, but I don’t use MF. All I use is omnom bars for the gold. I’d rather see if the person is skilled or not instead of saying “You have MF? kick” which is not even as bad as what you’re doing. You’re intentionally blocking me because I don’t despise MF like yourself, which is fine, but completely ignorant.
Nope, I just don’t have time. This has been argued many many times on the forums, and it’s not worth my time of day to convince yet another person that magic find is never acceptable in dungeons. Nor do I wish to risk taking another person in MF regardless of whether they claim to be using it or not. When they support it, it sure makes it more likely they are using it.
@Leo G:
Of course i cannot force anyone to run a specific build but i’d rather tell them that their actual setu kitten hit than letting them run it so they never have a learning effect. When someone tells me i should bring some specific skill to SE (never really did that dungeon) i will bring that skills, just to improve the run even if i do not know when exactly to use it. Would you ever do a dungeon with four “5-Sig-Wars” with Soldiers Equipment? I hope not.
Would you ever do a dungeon with four “5-Sig-Wars” with Soldiers Equipment? I hope not.
Why not?
I guess if the run isn’t as smooth as silk, it’ll give me cooties…or even that it can’t be smooth because it’s a ‘noob’ build and must make everything 10-fold harder. The only place I could see that set-up likely failing is high-level fractals.
PS: Yeah I’d take an all 5-sig warrior group, so long as they work as a team. What I can’t stand is players not taking the effort to rez downed people. When I have to put my neck on the line more often because no one else is doing it, I’m usually the one paying the price. I’d rather struggle as a group than succeed as an island. Downright kitten es me off…
(edited by Leo G.4501)
What you forgot:
- Using defensive Equipment (P/V/T or similars).
I do not know any situation in whole GW2 Dungeons where berserker’s equipment wouldn’t be the best choice by far. You just screw down DPS to survive longer yourself. Nothing else. It’s same as doing fight’s ranged that are easily doable melee.
I don’t pretend to be an expert, and I am certainly not the most skilled player (I probably suck by many standards) but this is not good advice for me. There are many places where I would die way too much running Zerker gear.
For me the zerker concept only works if you know the whole team is doing it. Doing the zerker melee thing doesn’t work for me at all when the rest of the team is rangers and theives using a ranged attack….it simply gets me killed.
Again…maybe this is a skill issue with me….but the very point of this thread is how less skilled players can get along and play with more skilled ones, right?
Again…maybe this is a skill issue with me….but the very point of this thread is how less skilled players can get along and play with more skilled ones, right?
That would actually be a much better thread topic or even one that was actually about etiquette, this is more of “personal pet peeve” list thing. At least as far as the OP.
However, as of late, I’ve noticed a massive influx in selfish and idiotic behavior.
Totally agree with this one. And after reading your post. I have added another idiot to my list. Just hope your playing on NA servers so I will never have the uncomfortable luck of running into you or one of your guildies.
Serious you could have spend your time way better then adding this massive troll post.
Good luck with finding more more selfish and idiotic players to play with. But yeah those you won’t even find on gw2lfg.com. Guess that’s the reason for you trying it here.
Here is my experience with people in dungeons, screenshot below.
Carried a guild team through AC, solo’d the queen because they all died to circles in seconds, solo’d pretty much everything else as they never dodged anything, we get to the last boss, wasted 10 mins to explain it, we kill it and they kick me.
I’m done with being nice to people and will be a complete elitist from now on until Anet stops allowing this garbage in the game.
So much for a grief-free game, I have never been subject to such a big griefing in any MMO I played in the last 20 years.
To be fair according to your screenshot the person said you were kicked for going afk. Either for maybe too long or without notice.
Don’t go afk without notification or too long would belong on the list of dungeon etiquettes wouldn’t you agree?
There are many places where I would die way too much running Zerker gear.
For me the zerker concept only works if you know the whole team is doing it.
5 Berserkers work very well in every Dungeon, better than any other group. That what i wanted to say. Though, even as the only berserker in a team you still won’t die just because of your equipment. You cannot tank in GW2 anyway, running defensive equipment ist just more forgiving but screws down dps. If you can’t survive – no problem. But better keep trying until you do instead of staying on defensive equipment and offer nothing at all. I prefer Berserker Warriors who die after 30 seconds over Soldier Warriors who die after 2 minutes. Because in those 30 seconds they pulled off more damage than the Soldier one would do in the whole run.
Dungeon Attitude and Behavior:
WvW Attitude and Behavior:
(edited by misterdevious.6482)
What you forgot:
- Using defensive Equipment (P/V/T or similars).
I do not know any situation in whole GW2 Dungeons where berserker’s equipment wouldn’t be the best choice by far. You just screw down DPS to survive longer yourself. Nothing else. It’s same as doing fight’s ranged that are easily doable melee.
- Not following the advice of more experienced players.
I’ve lately had a 5 Signet Warrior who refused to change his Utility Skills. In the party have also been a P/V/T Guardian without Wall of Reflection, Stand your Ground or Retreat. And a Mesmer using 3 Signets and Hounds of Balthasar. They all didn’t listen, died at fighting, died at running, died at.. everything. And didn’t even do damage.
Completely disagree. GW2 have all these different builds, people should be allowed to play whatever build they want. I would rather have full party of people with defensive builds than the one in which someone gets downed every 10 seconds and then other people follow him, while trying to res. There are very few instances where DPS > survival and not everyone put 1k hours or so to become an expert on dodging or ran the same dungeon hundreds of times, majority of people get hit eventually and when they’re running glass cannon builds they go down and go down fast, no matter what dungeon they’re in.
I myself play a P/V/T + some healing shout warrior with a hammer + rifle. I take the supportive approach of healing/removing conditions, CC’ing and granting might/vulnerability or whatever else party needs and in the end I do not do that much less of a damage than my DPS thief, who usually goes down in one or two hits.
In any case it all comes down to, well – fun. It’s so redundant to see all these 100 blades warriors zerking all the time, when this game has so many other weapon combinations to choose from.
You cannot tank in GW2 anyway, running defensive equipment ist just more forgiving but screws down dps. If you can’t survive – no problem. But better keep trying until you do instead of staying on defensive equipment and offer nothing at all. I prefer Berserker Warriors who die after 30 seconds over Soldier Warriors who die after 2 minutes. Because in those 30 seconds they pulled off more damage than the Soldier one would do in the whole run.
I agree with you, and think that is the fundamental design failure of GW2.
I myself play a P/V/T + some healing shout warrior with a hammer + rifle. I take the supportive approach of healing/removing conditions, CC’ing and granting might/vulnerability or whatever else party needs and in the end I do not do that much less of a damage than my DPS thief, who usually goes down in one or two hits.
Ever dared to compare your damage output to what a standard zerker warriors does?
In any case it all comes down to, well – fun. It’s so redundant to see all these 100 blades warriors zerking all the time, when this game has so many other weapon combinations to choose from.
Why people so often fail to realize that maximizing effectiveness may also be – as you name it – fun…
I prefer Berserker Warriors who die after 30 seconds over Soldier Warriors who die after 2 minutes. Because in those 30 seconds they pulled off more damage than the Soldier one would do in the whole run.
Post of the day!
We’re not gonna kick you for being a Longbow ranger or a Scepter guardian. We are however going to be watching how you utilize those skillsets and note if you’re doing it properly. If you aren’t, then we’re not gonna want to have anything to do with you after the run.
Just out of curiosity…
You say you won’t kick a sceptre guardian just for being a sceptre guardian, but would you:
1) Say between fights “can you swap to weaponset x/x, and try to do more x”
2) Wait until the end of the run, then say “hey, that would have been better if the guardian had done x; shall we go again?”
3) Say nothing; laugh at the pathetic guardian in guild chat; then add the player to your blocked list.
I ask because I enjoy playing a guardian, (and I’d like to think that I am not completely awful at playing the class.) I carry all weapons; but I have not memorised all dungeon routes, and I occasionally end-up with the wrong weaponset for the situation.
I myself play a P/V/T + some healing shout warrior with a hammer + rifle. I take the supportive approach of healing/removing conditions, CC’ing and granting might/vulnerability or whatever else party needs and in the end I do not do that much less of a damage than my DPS thief, who usually goes down in one or two hits.
Ever dared to compare your damage output to what a standard zerker warriors does?
In any case it all comes down to, well – fun. It’s so redundant to see all these 100 blades warriors zerking all the time, when this game has so many other weapon combinations to choose from.
Why people so often fail to realize that maximizing effectiveness may also be – as you name it – fun…
As I said – I don’t like playing zerker warrior and I don’t play DPS build, I play support/CC build, why would I worry if someone does more damage than me? I don’t join “zerker” groups, so it never was an issue. I often end up saving those same DPS warriors, when they rush into a front line and get downed in seconds.
IMO it’s no fun in copy paste’ing latest “best” build and running around with a bunch of clones. Why even bother to put different weapons/traits in the game if everyone will be running the same build all the time?
We’re not gonna kick you for being a Longbow ranger or a Scepter guardian. We are however going to be watching how you utilize those skillsets and note if you’re doing it properly. If you aren’t, then we’re not gonna want to have anything to do with you after the run.
Just out of curiosity…
You say you won’t kick a sceptre guardian just for being a sceptre guardian, but would you:
1) Say between fights “can you swap to weaponset x/x, and try to do more x”
2) Wait until the end of the run, then say “hey, that would have been better if the guardian had done x; shall we go again?”
3) Say nothing; laugh at the pathetic guardian in guild chat; then add the player to your blocked list.I ask because I enjoy playing a guardian, (and I’d like to think that I am not completely awful at playing the class.) I carry all weapons; but I have not memorised all dungeon routes, and I occasionally end-up with the wrong weaponset for the situation.
Sceptor is the optimal weapon for guards in alot of boss encounters.
In fact in higher fotm it’s the weapon of choice.
OP while you have some obviously valid points here, your rules in general are nitpicky and self-righteous. If you post on gw2lfg you are as reliant on other people as they are on you, it doesn’t give you any special privileges or beholden the joiners to do things like stay behind you at all times. If you don’t want to deal with random people and you have a bunch of unspoken rules then you’re advertising in the wrong place, it’s no surprise you do not have enough friends/guildies to run your own groups. This post and the rules contained therein seems more squarely aimed at power tripping than in ensuring successful teamwork. There is certainly a combination or degree of incompetence + saying dumb things in chat that should result in a kick, but none of your esoteric excuses for doing it strike me as reasonable. The only reasons a person should be kicked is if they A) joined in bad faith (griefing/trolling), or B ) their lack of skill or willingness to learn are affecting you to the degree that they are actually causing wipes and preventing progress. Kicking somebody because they ran ahead of you is a joke. It’s personalities like yours that give guild groups a bad reputation among puggers.
0/10 would not play with your group ever. If I ever accidentally join one of your groups please deny/kick me at the start.
I join a lot of groups these days and leave them soon after and make no apology for it.
The exploiting in the game related to dungeons is rife. I can’t stand it. I want to enjoy the challenge of the dungeon for the bosses etc in there, not run past/glitch/etc or otherwise exploit any situation available just to get to the ‘lootz’.
It’s almost impossible to find a group that’s willing to do things properly.
I join a lot of groups these days and leave them soon after and make no apology for it.
The exploiting in the game related to dungeons is rife. I can’t stand it. I want to enjoy the challenge of the dungeon for the bosses etc in there, not run past/glitch/etc or otherwise exploit any situation available just to get to the ‘lootz’.It’s almost impossible to find a group that’s willing to do things properly.
You mean it’s almost impossible to find a group that will do things YOUR way.
Most people just want to get the dungeons over with since they’ve done the same run a thousand times already and don’t feel like wasting any more time than they have to.
Exploiting is exploiting ‘DeathPanel’. Justify it however you like, but it doesn’t change the fact. And no one should feel bad about leaving any group when it’s exploiting content.
And the OP has one or two good points, but that’s among a lot of elitist junk. Seriously? Telling others how they should and should not play is just being a bigot and pathetic. What’s worse is starting a post like this as if in some way this is the common-held belief. No wonder people leave this game when they have such a horrible experience with other players.
You need to ask yourself: Am I being a positive or negative influence on the community with such actions.
(edited by Reverielle.3972)
brb making a guide telling people not to be pricks.
brb calling certain builds/classes useless.
To be fair according to your screenshot the person said you were kicked for going afk. Either for maybe too long or without notice.
Don’t go afk without notification or too long would belong on the list of dungeon etiquettes wouldn’t you agree?
That was an excuse, as you can see he then admitted to it.
I notified I was lagging and it lasted like 10 seconds, plus I got kicked long after that.
They just wanted to free a slot for a guildie after I basically solo’d the dungeon for them.
The only thing I disagree with from the original poster is not taking non-80s. Unless it’s specified when you look for more members, anyone who’s at or higher than the dungeon level is fair game.
I skimmed the thread and saw a post about not wanting people to use P/V/T gear. That’s just silly. Not everyone knows all the encounters, or can even handle them, and the extra tankiness helps a lot for beginners and poor players. You should only demand berserker gear if you’re specifically speedrunning.
I skimmed the thread and saw a post about not wanting people to use P/V/T gear. That’s just silly. Not everyone knows all the encounters, or can even handle them, and the extra tankiness helps a lot for beginners and poor players. You should only demand berserker gear if you’re specifically speedrunning.
Hell no, some players are so experienced and so skillful they wont die on glass cannon eles and thiefs in all GW2 dungeons. In case anyone was wondering, I was being sarcastic. And let’s be honest, the OP himself would be on my block list as I consider some of his “etiquette” guidelines to be offensive.
Some etiquette guidelines should be imo:
1) If u are new to the dungeon, say so and experienced players can help you. You keep quiet and waste even more of everyone’s time.
2) Failing is ok. Stubborn refusal to take suggestions during retries is another +1 to my block list.
3) Failing is ok. Even RQ is ok. Whats not ok is standing around refusing to do nothing during retries especially if you arent performing well yourself and blaming the rest of the team.
4) Players who are nowhere good as they think; who may in fact be worse than others; are criticizing other players. If they are as good as they think, then they should have no problems carrying a weak team. But they aren’t.
5) Nubs with >5k achieve points as of March 2013 auto +1 block list.
6) So are trolls and deliberate time wasters clowning about. Fine for the latter if u are in a guild party and know each other, but not for PUGs pls.
7) Loud and annoying “Napoleons” who think they know the tactics (but who is in fact wrong and results in lots of time wasted). If u have an alternative strategy, we can discuss it as a party.
8) Really impatient ppl who cant wait for the rest of the party to catch up or change their utils (in non speedruns eg Fractals). If they are willing to slow down, no harm done though.
Actually don’t some of these guidelines apply IRL? Oh I forget, culture varies among people.
(edited by Khal Drogo.9631)
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