Guild Wars 2

1) For what I would say to a developer: If Explorable dungeons had difficulty settings (normal/hard just like GW1 had everywhere) people would be able to learn dungeons without needing peak skill ability or a team of people who can carry them. I see a lot of people complaining that Dungeons are long, hard, boring. I felt this way too when I started doing them, party wiping at the first few sets of mobs and having to rez rush, 1hour+ of this with almost more repair bill than profit made with possible full party rage quit or resigning before the end, mind this was back in september though. But once I’d actually learned whichever dungeon and how my class can be a benefit to it, things were a lot more smoother to the point that I’m quite happy to lead newbies/pugs in there and not have to worry too much. But I can’t agree in any way that it’s fair to throw the level of difficulty that dungeons require at people, when the practice vs difficulty they’ve had in general PvE is no where near the same level. There should be a build up in difficulty or at least the option. I get the feeling that if the mob AI in general PvE had been kept from that one delightful BWE I was on where mobs seemed to have brains, the transition I speak of here would not have been so harsh. Curse all the whiners who couldn’t deal with mildly clever mobs.

2) For my fellow players: My main is a guardian (I’ve got four 80’s, full exotic gear and stuff, all do dungeons), originally I built my guardian for support/tanking (Vit/Prec/Healing gear) and it did marvelously, my heals were ‘helpful’ and I could take a beating. I hit like a wet noodle though. I got bored of this after some time and made myself a knights set for the hell of it (Tough/Prec/Power) and suddenly I’m doing fairly decent damage, my heals were not hugely less than with full healing gear. Because of the change obviously I was moving around a lot more, paying more attention to when to dodge and when not to and found that my rate of deaths didn’t actually change much, if at all. So again for the hell of it I made myself berserkers gear (Power/Prec/Crit damage) with the same playstyle as in knights and now I’m doing even more damage and.. still really no change to how often I get downed/killed, more often than not I die from not being aware of something or not paying attention or trying to hit my dodge key while rezzing someone before standing up first. On top of this I’ve ended up (for whatever rason) finding myself in dungeon groups where the whole party is specced for damage (Not necessarily glass cannon) and those runs, not only have been the fastest but have been the most death free. I’ve since salvaged my tanky/support gear for ectos because the heals I lost were so very tiny compared to the damage I gained, and on top of that I’ve learned to be a much better player. TL;DR I know, it’s just something to think about and I can honestly say if I have a party in a dungeon that’s dying a lot, the last thing I want is someone to switch to support because IF the party is dying a lot, it’s generally because it’s a bad party anyway or something(s) living longer than it needs to and that is what’s killing us, not lack of heals or indestructible players.

Yeh… Game forum.. probably typed more than 99% will read. xD

I have a question about this. What if we are not part of a party at all and just join in the battle and we die. We can’t waypoint out even if we are alone and just join in?

I am a new player. Never played GW 1. I play casually as I work all day and go to college classes usually until 7 at night or a 9 for one day. I do homework first before anything so as a new and casual player I liked being able to join a world battle like the maw and the Plains Wurm Champion or something in Disaessa without being in a party. I prefer solo playing, but I don’t mind joining in. I just don’t like to be forced to join a party to do something.

Anyway, about the waypoint thing, I liked being able to go to a waypoint if I died so as not to be inconvenient to the other players and also to get back in the action quicker. I like going after the higher level battles even at a lower level for the large experience and the challenge of it. I do enjoy a challenge don’t get me wrong, and maybe the waypoint thing is a bit of a crutch for me, but I like to go into a challenging fight and have the security of the waypoint. With that being taken away I don’t think I will have as much fun as I have been since I started playing a week ago.

There always seems to be some that love as challenging as possible others that prefer it to be a bit more forgiving.

Just once, I’d like to see special servers with hard as hell content, so some servers have super hard and super loot that the other normal servers never see so never want.

This will be interesting, my guild has pretty much stopped doing dungeons due to there being only 3-4 people available requiring at least some PUG needed. Group then tends to zerg as players that join often don’t co-ordinate well (I’d swear they have chat turned off sometimes), or do actions which causes unneeded losses. Because of this, I rarely run PUG dungeons anymore on top of early functionality left a bad taste, any drops I’ve won have been useless, and I feel I can do better with the 2 hours, with world events or WvW, as a complete failure of eg AC story mode run can be when you have keymashers in the party… occasionally optimism drives me to try and be let down…

I can see this mechanic driving far more ‘forced wipes’ much like other MMOs with a no res-run option where its just easier after a point of attrition to just stop fighting let everyone die so the event nulls out and start again. which causes a lot of rage quits with PUG groups. I’d be willing to bet dungeon play drops significantly as a result of this change (can see CM becoming near abandoned on a PUG level).

If it were my option I’d add this as an ‘elite’ mode on top of explorable modes.

As a less-experienced dungeon runner who started about a week ago, I wrote the majority of this post while lying in the dirt (AC, Path 3).

I had to go repair my armor, and my party got into a battle while I was doing it. I ran most of it, got hit by a trap and a randomly spawned graveling burrow, and died far enough away that they couldn’t come back to get me. This is on top of the time I spent lying dead in battle while waiting for my teammates to either finish it without me or to die. The two people who tried to res me died in the process.

I can see how the res-rushing is a style you’d want to discourage, but please don’t discourage it in a way that makes the game not fun for less experienced players. I liked the suggestion of different modes with scaled rewards.

While I appreciate all the people who are willing to take us less-experienced folk with them, I’m going to show my appreciation by not being a drag on their parties while lying in the dirt, and avoid dungeons for a while.

NightAngel.9378:

I have a question about this. What if we are not part of a party at all and just join in the battle and we die. We can’t waypoint out even if we are alone and just join in?

I am a new player. Never played GW 1. I play casually as I work all day and go to college classes usually until 7 at night or a 9 for one day. I do homework first before anything so as a new and casual player I liked being able to join a world battle like the maw and the Plains Wurm Champion or something in Disaessa without being in a party. I prefer solo playing, but I don’t mind joining in. I just don’t like to be forced to join a party to do something.

Anyway, about the waypoint thing, I liked being able to go to a waypoint if I died so as not to be inconvenient to the other players and also to get back in the action quicker. I like going after the higher level battles even at a lower level for the large experience and the challenge of it. I do enjoy a challenge don’t get me wrong, and maybe the waypoint thing is a bit of a crutch for me, but I like to go into a challenging fight and have the security of the waypoint. With that being taken away I don’t think I will have as much fun as I have been since I started playing a week ago.

The waypoint issue doesn’t pertain to the normal map battles, only to dungeon ones, when you go in as a party of five ^^

reading all the post above, lots of complain…

but i personally think this dungeon patch is a good one, because after reading the comments here, i do check and make some dungeon runs (CoF 1,2 and AC 1,2 ~ only this 4 path since only got like 2-3 hours to play, will try other dungeons again later on) with my guildies, and i think it’s still very much do-able.

Also I think the dev did actually make the dungeon runs better with some tweak in the mob (not sure about this though, because only some of the party member feels that the mob now is more easy to kill) and event mechanics, esp in CoF p2 – defend magg portion, now is much better than “run-die-res-run-die-res cycle” before patch.

We did the dungeon run in average 15-30 minutes per path, and only once did we got wipe which is the ACp1 boss, since now need to do it without the “ladder” help anymore, which make us relearn the boss mechanics also communicate and rely on teamwork more + clear the previously “never bother” skelk breeder around the boss.

Just to throw my two cent into this very long set of replies. There’s a line between challenging and not fun. Challenging should mean you feel accomplished at the end, not fun means that you’ve tried something a half dozen times and you aren’t getting anywhere. Honestly, if there was one thing I’d change, it would be the absolutely absurd way that mobs regen their health. It’s incredibly discouraging to get most of the way through a fight then to have to start all over due to bad luck.

In regards to making things more difficult for new players, I’ve seen this same thing happen in other games. While a mechanic might be meant to encourage people to learn, it doesn’t work that way. Newbie players get ignored because the good experienced people don’t have the hours that it’d take to teach them, the bad experienced players will spend their time being judgmental about gear and experience.

In addition to this, the more ‘challenging’ this is, the more likely that people will be pigeonholed into jobs they don’t like doing because it’s the only way to find a party. I’ve been down that road in other games, where a boss type fight was impossible unless you had a specific mix of X, Y, Z types. GW2 is supposed to be all about being able to play the way you want to and excluding people from content while saying, well, just don’t do that part if you don’t like it, isn’t the answer. I don’t care for the way a lot of things work in WvW, but as long as it’s the only way to get items for other things I want to do (or certain achievements for that matter) I don’t have a lot of choice.

Lastly, for whatever it will be worth, I don’t know if it’s been decided yet, but until Phase 2 goes through, please don’t include dungeons on the February monthly achievement. It seems counterproductive to require events that have not been balanced yet get the shiny new currency that you just gave us. Yes, I’m aware you can do dailies, but my point still stands.

I am personally neutral to the changes involving wp respawning as it doesn’t really affect me much (besides the obvious strategy changes in some dungeons parts like Magg Bomb Room). I think ppl need more time to get used to this feature.

However I feel that it is a system that penalizes newcomers to a greater extent than before. If a member is killed in combat at a boss encounter, they can’t re-enter the encounter and lose out on the loot. Newcomers who are unfamiliar to boss attacks will tend to get killed easier and since they have to stay dead until they get rezzed (if the team even bother to rez), they have less chances to learn from these boss encounters.

Dead members can’t really depend on others to rez as rezzing the dead (not downed) takes a lot of time. To add to that, many (especially in PuGs) do not know how to rez properly. Eg when someone has aggro of the boss, he should lead the fight away from the dead so that they can be rezzed properly. Most of time, PuGs would flock to the dead team mate and bring the aggro along with them.

Yea, taking out this “res-rushing” idea completely ruined a large part of my want to keep playing currently.

I’m too casual to get into selectively choosing the correct players who can work together completely through and through, as well as spending the little time I have to play intervals at a time between school and work hoping that neither I nor my teammates are downed because of the now time expansion between catching up the pace we lost.

The wp change is a good change, but what makes it the worse thing ever is the unbalanced dungeon fight encounters. If bosses did not have one/two hit attack, super wide range mutiple AoE, or super rapid attack; wp reszz wouldn’t even happen in the first place. They are just using the easy way out to try to solve the problem.
Another obvious meaning less change is the Nightmare Vines of TA for example.
Lets say:
Before: they spit 3 AoE’s with 5 damage each
After: they spit 5 AoE’s with 3 damage each
So even though the damage is tuned down, the fight just got more brutal.
3×5 = 5×3 = no change at all

Removing being able to use waypoints when killed and other players are still in combat is a ridiculous and stupid idea. I can think of nothing worse or more boring than lying dead while the rest of your party can’t revive you because they’re too busy fighting an often ridiculously overpowered enemy. Porting to a wp and getting back into the fight is essential if nobody can revive you. I also cannot believe that enemy invulnerability when you attack from a good safe place has been reinstated. Fighting from cover and safe places shows initiative (and is also a legitimate military tactic) and should not be penalised by making the enemy invulnerable. I have just started to enjoy the standard dungeons despite the rather poor levels of loot and this will most likely stop me playing dungeons altogether and even possibly drive me away from the game altogether. Think again about this. Gaming is supposed to be fun this takes that fun away. Stop listening to only the elitist players and think of the majority of players who want things to be do-able but challenging for ordinary players.

“Fighting from cover and safe places shows initiative”

I am just wondering what is the purpose of dungeon bosses than compared to open world champions based on this sentence.

You have open world bossess whom can be shot from a safe spot, no need to think, no need to learn mechanics, no need to dodge, no need of team coordination. They drop more or less the same loot in Orr as in dungeons.

The only real difference that dungeons give are the tokens for which you can buy skins. Skins that are purposely made for (without having a better word for it) elitists who want to look different then the average and show off (sorry for putting it very bluntly).

If I read the above correctly and what is behind that sentence is: “I want easy skins for my character, I want to be an elitist, but I do not want to work and spend time for it and I refuse to do anything differently than in open-world to achieve this.” I see a self-contradiction there.

And also: no pain = no gain.

(And I still believe the bottom line is, that the game should do a better job in teaching game mechanics, so dungeons are more accessible as the “casual” skill level is higher through a natural learning curve)

Change the no-WP restriction to apply only to bosses please kthx.

^I do dungeons for stats and money, not skins. More money than anything :P

Anyway after my rant earlier. I thought “What if this no WP deal had always been in place?” and the answer is, dungeons would have been rebalanced by now to be more fair. Perhaps. xD

I am really wondering what benefit Anet expects from this patch. Looking at the comments here there are a felt 90% disagreeing because it would turn dungeon experience “impossible” and some 10% applauding because they found dungeons too easy.

From my limited experience in dungeons (do mostly PvP and WvW) I made observation that the “rez-rush” occurs in 3 situations.

1. During a fight someone (accidentally or for whatever reason) dies and being able to Rez-run or not does not really make a difference. I remember that first boss in HotW on the stairs used to one-hit me and the first time I didn’t even know that I could rez-run so stayed in the dust until the end of the fight. It was no problem for the group to kill the boss with 4 man, so for this situation it doesn’t really matter if you can run or not. The possibility to do so was just a refreshing experience (compared to e.g. WoW) that you could continue to participate in the fight and learn and not be a burden for the team. So for this scenario, there is virtually no necessity at all to remove the ability to WP.

2. Encounters where basically the whole team wipes and rez-rushing is more or less the only way to manage the boss. I am thinking specifically of Subject Alpha, where in my first run I died like 20 times (had to repair 2x fully after I found myself battling in bikini) and where after 4-5 resets we finally managed to wear him down with most of the time 1 person kiting and maintaining aggro while the other 4 were running. Actually after this first run I was thinking to quit dungeon already, but I kept on, learned and after my 3rd or 4th run and with apparently more experienced groups managed to clear CoE with “only” like 2-5 wipes. So in other words, with the no WP patch in place, I wouldn’t have cleared the instance but once, probably I would have given up after the first failed attempt in the first place. Now one word to those who claim that even CoE is “easy mode” – I actually happend to get into one group that really rushed the instance with no problem – but this was a group that used all kind of exploits like porting through walls to skip the first encounter, melee the boss into some crates so that he bugs and you basically need not evade his AoE anymore. So is this how ANet wants us to play dungeons now? Learn exploits to avoid all the deadly parts of an encounter? I don’t know …

3. Encounters where Rez-rushing is intentionally used as strategy – the only example I am aware of is CoF path 2 and I admit that I found this really not a good idea and agree that this should be fixed. But then, similar to the previous point, the reason for this is that even a good and well-equipped party hardly has a chance to do the encounter otherwise, so instead of removing the WP option, maybe balancing of the encounter would have been a smarter option …

So in summary – removing WP rez will be in some cases (the easier bosses) simply unnecessary (just removing the chance for dead players to continue participating/learning) and in the tough encouters tip the balance from hard but doable with some pain (running, paying repair bills) to near impossible (at least for the vast majority of players).

Hence I agree to the opinion that was also expressed in many posts that, before addressing this “issue” of WP rezzing, there are many much more urgent topics to look into to make dungeons a challenging, and at the same time fun experience, i.e. removing the possibilities to cheat/exploit (then these “elitists” will likely stop finding every dungeon “easy mode”), balance the encounters so that they are doable by let’s say an advanced casual (as I would rate myself).

to Robert Hrouda if you read this
if you want to end this “res-rushing” just put time out (120) sec this system work great
and remove (you can’t use waypoints while their party is in combat) it is bad Idea
if I go fixing my armor or If get lost in dungeon and there is a waypont near them
what to do
A) wait till they all die
B) ask them to stop fight so I can join in
C)run all the way to them O_o

for hardcore gamer
want a super hard dungeon how about this Idea but there is a Punishment
in the dungeon no waypont to waypont your self
final boss is extremely strong 900000HP & one hit will make you drop dead
boss room will closed when enter (no way out)
party have to revive there team mate at any cost to avoid mobs getting strong
if all party died they all kick out from the dungeon with a big punishment
all you gold is gone and can’t enter any dungeon for 1 day

this is hard in way that you will break the keybored

Alexander Quess.1932:

Ok, first off I understand people wanting more difficulty, but this is a casual MMO so why ruin the experience of casual players? Can’t you add a difficulty option?
Add some sort of insensitive like Easy:0% Magic find, Med:2% MF, Hard:+5% MF?
Sometimes I do not have 2 hours to spend being careful when running a dungeon.

I also find that people who welcome the change are lv 80s running a lv 35 dungeon…
It’s a lv 35 dungeon, it is going to be easy for a lv 80 even with the lv scaled! Again, why cant it have been a difficulty option? As it is, a party of lv 35s will wipe. This will demoralize people who didn’t rushed to 80.

And good luck for lower lvs getting a party now. I would occasionally see someone only letting 80s join the party on even the most lowest lv dungeon before the patch, now almost every party I see want’s nothing but 80s.

Here is an idea, if you need more difficult content for all the lv 80s, why not MAKE NEW CONTENT rather then raise the difficulty on low lv runs.

Um … Excuse me … easy for a downleveled WEAKER Level 80??? “It’s a lv 35 dungeon, it is going to be easy for a lv 80 even with the lv scaled” … No the dungeon is not easy … have you not read the last entire forum post of people complaining. This update has made Level 80s even WEAKER than a level 35 in the “Level 35” dungeon. And even lower levels are complaining that they are weaker than before and are having issues. Now no matter what gear/skill you have, everyone is upset at this change, and we can only HOPE that ANet DO actually bother to read and fix what has been an APPALLING lapse of judgement.
This game is supposed to be for everyone … not just a small group of elitist refugees from WOW.

I’ll make it short

This dungeon “upgrade” reminds me of Aion Online but there we at least had chance to get cool rewards during run, here we get kitten-load of blue stuff and overall no real rewards for doing the run which is understandable if you can just res in middle of combat and run back to your party … oh wait that is normal in other games too the just have ress at the entrence

Wanna keep WP “upgrade”? … give us something in return that will make us want to do those instances.

PS: Instanced gear is mostly only for looks nothing else

I have to agree with the majority of players. It was already hard enough to find groups before this update that were experienced enough to run dungeons like CoE or TA. Adding this change has definitely discouraged people from undertakin the task of running dungeons because it simply takes the fun out of it and has no added benefit. A lot of the dungeons were already ridiculously difficult and had a high learning curve but now the chances of giving every class a chance to have fun in these dungeons has been pretty much nullified. I have a Thief and I’ve been trying to find groups outside of my guild to run dungeons with and I’ve been booted for not being a Guardian, Mesmer, or Warrior. I feel the dungeon system woked a lot better before the patch and would immensely appreciate it if it was changed back or at least netted better rewards for all the trouble.

Overall I’m very happy with the changes. However there’s one thing I’d like to suggest: profession abilities that revive downed players should also affect fully downed players. I believe this is necessary with the WP changes, although the cooldown for it should be increased to about 10minutes so that it is a meaningful decision to use it during a boss attempt.

Just did another AC EXP run last night, and I ABSOLUTELY LOVE these changes. Doing Kohl was amazing knowing reinforcements would not be ‘death hopping’ in half way through the fight.

Every skill mattered, we cared about each other and made sure everyone stayed up, and everyone did whatever they could to play as a team and mitigate the scorpion wire for other players (walls/reflects/stability). All in all it was an AWESOME team experience.

Thanks ANET for fixing dungeons.

Also to everyone complaining about the ‘lvl 80 scaling nerf’, please remember this is a GOOD THING. Since 80s are scaled harshly down to the appropriate dungeon level, there is little to no difference between taking an 80 in full exotics, to taking a lvl 35 in full greens.

This is a GREAT change, it lets lower levels get in on the action and removes some of the elitist ‘80 only’ mentality when it comes to pug groups.

And to everyone complaining about ‘not being able to play how you want with a full team of 5 condition build necros’. The game was never intended for this, they never said you could easily clear all content no matter what you did (really? you wanted that?). They stated that you could clear with a carefully built team of any class combination… so 5 necros will still work, as long as some are built support, some control, and some dps… THAT is how it is supposed to work.

A lot of surviving comes from practicing. You mess up once and get killed, you know what to look for, and next time you dodge. This kills it for people who are still learning, because you can’t get back up and try again until you’ve got it. You misjudge something, but if the next time you get to try it is 5-10 minutes later, you’re a lot more likely to make the same mistake than if you try it 30-60 seconds later.

The learning curve just got a LOT steeper.

I agree you should keep res-rushing turned off for higher-end content, but either leave the lowest dungeon in newbie-forgiveness mode or give an option for nerfed payouts that lets you res yourself.

…. So far I see ONE, perhaps two SUCK UPs … who is not talking about the INSTANCES, but FRACTALS … and a few Elitists … and MANY MANY MANY Complaints by the MAJORITY who hate what has been done.

The new Elitist attitude is what will NOW come into play … seriously, no one said it should be easy, it certainly was not easy before, but … at least before you could see people in the Map asking for an instance … spent over an hour on COE map today, not ONE request for ANY path … never mind not one person in Lions Arch bothering to ask for ANY Explorer mode, when I was levelling up skills on yet another char.

The WORST change EVER … not a “great” one … The game WAS INTENDED for the CASUAL Player to get somewhere, not be kicked from groups by elitists because they cannot cope with what has been done. The game WAS INTENDED for ANY form of group to be able to make it … NOT a SPECIAL group that HAS to be the RIGHT Classes and specs for it to now work.

When Guilds who have 100-300 plus players can barely find 5 people to run dungeons with, … when people mostly refuse to PUG because they shriek “Noob” … “Moron” … etc at people who cannot manage things they way that one wants, … when no one wants people who are not on TS/VOIP programs in the group … but accepted it before … now its going to be even worse. It was hard enough to find a group before, now it will be worse. A horrible change for the FEW elitists who do NOT keep the game going, its the “grunts” who do … and lets not even think of the small guilds who were not having it easy before (who put in hours and hours of work to get all the in-guild politics/war/economics etc to max level) … who will now just collapse, because of these changes.

Thank you for failing the MAJORITY to pander to the few Elitists who already have their legendaries through whatever path they took … getting the grunts to grind for them, taking proceeds from their large guilds … buying their gold … so that they can perhaps cope every now and then, who will all throw up their hands soon and go “I am bored again” … just like they did in WOW and every other game they passed through briefly on the way to the next one. It is those “grunts” who stay and persevere who should be pandered to a little more, not the Elitist few.

Frustrated rant over.

We are avid dungeoners and so far it has been somewhat more than just challenging. While certain dungeons were alright, others such as CoE took WAY too long to complete and were more than just a “challenge” but a cesspool of frustration.

Many games allow you to revive from a checkpoint to try and complete your task. You have eliminated this. I agree with MANY comments on here including those regarding PUGs and how it will affect the behavior towards other players, increasing rage quitters and those who kick others, etc. Is this really how you want this to go? Think about it, players ALREADY had a penalty if they died which is paying for repairs.

IDEA: Perhaps you could implement a system where there is a certain number of times you have to revive at a waypoint before you no longer can. Or a certain time frame in which you can such as until boss’ health is 50%, for example. I personally like “certain number of times you can” or back to the way it was which was fine. Or, even as someone else suggested, a separate “hard mode” where you can’t waypoint and a normal mode where you can and rewards adjusted accordingly (just not a ridiculously lower, for example).

Do you really want many MANY players to feel left-out and as though they cannot play a huge part of the game? To be judged by others and scoffed on by elitists? Because this is what you’re doing to many, many people… read the comments… see for yourself, devs… don’t do this to your players…

Myste.3291:

…. So far I see ONE, perhaps two SUCK UPs … who is not talking about the INSTANCES, but FRACTALS … and a few Elitists … and MANY MANY MANY Complaints by the MAJORITY who hate what has been done.

The new Elitist attitude is what will NOW come into play … seriously, no one said it should be easy, it certainly was not easy before, but … at least before you could see people in the Map asking for an instance … spent over an hour on COE map today, not ONE request for ANY path … never mind not one person in Lions Arch bothering to ask for ANY Explorer mode, when I was levelling up skills on yet another char.

The WORST change EVER … not a “great” one … The game WAS INTENDED for the CASUAL Player to get somewhere, not be kicked from groups by elitists because they cannot cope with what has been done. The game WAS INTENDED for ANY form of group to be able to make it … NOT a SPECIAL group that HAS to be the RIGHT Classes and specs for it to now work.

When Guilds who have 100-300 plus players can barely find 5 people to run dungeons with, … when people mostly refuse to PUG because they shriek “Noob” … “Moron” … etc at people who cannot manage things they way that one wants, … when no one wants people who are not on TS/VOIP programs in the group … but accepted it before … now its going to be even worse. It was hard enough to find a group before, now it will be worse. A horrible change for the FEW elitists who do NOT keep the game going, its the “grunts” who do … and lets not even think of the small guilds who were not having it easy before (who put in hours and hours of work to get all the in-guild politics/war/economics etc to max level) … who will now just collapse, because of these changes.

Thank you for failing the MAJORITY to pander to the few Elitists who already have their legendaries through whatever path they took … getting the grunts to grind for them, taking proceeds from their large guilds … buying their gold … so that they can perhaps cope every now and then, who will all throw up their hands soon and go “I am bored again” … just like they did in WOW and every other game they passed through briefly on the way to the next one. It is those “grunts” who stay and persevere who should be pandered to a little more, not the Elitist few.

Dear ‘Casual’ players. I am one of you, I play for limited engagements split between job, kids, house, spouse, and everything else life throws around randomly when you really just want to play.

PLEASE!!! Stop associated ‘Casual’ with ‘BAD’… you are not bad players, you do not have the time to grind excessively or devote 5 hours per night 5 days a week to a game, but that does NOT make you bad players.

Learn your class, learn your abilities, and watch bosses and mobs to see what they do. When you are playing, play the game, when your not, THIS game will wait for you.

Guild wars 2 is very casual friendly. Dungeons are small, taking 20-60 minutes, can be done whenever you want, with little or no outside grinding or prep, or long quest lines to unlock. Dungeon ‘end game’ is unlocked early. Explore modes are unlocked as soon as you complete the ‘casual story’ mode, and are available for you to try on a weekend without the need to grind a character up to 80 or get top notch gear.

GEAR is friendly to casuals, there are not long grinds to get BiS gear required for dungeons. Exotics, Rares, Greens and Blues differ only very slightly in power, and are not the major ‘gear cliff’ they are in other MMOs.

So again, please please please stop with this ‘I am a causal player, so I am a bad player, nerf everything but me’ argument. It isn’t true. You can play this game well… I believe in you.

If you’re alive, you should be able to use waypoint, change it please.

deadbutdreaming.4159:

We are avid dungeoners and so far it has been somewhat more than just challenging. While certain dungeons were alright, others such as CoE took WAY too long to complete and were more than just a “challenge” but a cesspool of frustration.

Many games allow you to revive from a checkpoint to try and complete your task. You have eliminated this. I agree with MANY comments on here including those regarding PUGs and how it will affect the behavior towards other players, increasing rage quitters and those who kick others, etc. Is this really how you want this to go? Think about it, players ALREADY had a penalty if they died which is paying for repairs.

IDEA: Perhaps you could implement a system where there is a certain number of times you have to revive at a waypoint before you no longer can. Or a certain time frame in which you can such as until boss’ health is 50%, for example. I personally like “certain number of times you can” or back to the way it was which was fine. Or, even as someone else suggested, a separate “hard mode” where you can’t waypoint and a normal mode where you can and rewards adjusted accordingly (just not a ridiculously lower, for example).

Do you really want many MANY players to feel left-out and as though they cannot play a huge part of the game? To be judged by others and scoffed on by elitists? Because this is what you’re doing to many, many people… read the comments… see for yourself, devs… don’t do this to your players…

Your IDEA is brilliant, say allow a person to res twice at a waypoint if they die, or I also have a suggestion. Use the SPVP idea which is already in situ in the game. When you die there is a 15 second penalty before you are able to res at the waypoint. Most of the instances already also have the penalty of not having many waypoints, and you spent a lot of the time running back from almost the start (TA for example).

i’m not a fan of the big speeches so ill try to be short. With the last update Anet are turning away from few basic things they previously announced as their goals.
1. “Because each profession is so versatile and has such a wide range of skills and powers, it doesn’t matter what mix of professions are on the battlefield.” with the increasing of the difficulty there is increasing need of special classes and soon there will be " LFG only Mesmers and Warriors" . As and example take p2 CoF where the need of AoE is increasing.
2. The WP changes. If i remember correctly anet was strongly against lying dead waiting for resurrection ( in this case revive) and now…..! Here i want to make personal example – died on Alpha because of d/c then had to wait 30 min!!!! until the last party member fall down??!?! And what if in the PUG team the members aren’t completely friendly?!?!? So i have to wait for the last-selfish-hero-type to decide to back off from combat so i can use WP??!? and thats just because i had d/c?!?! + subject alpha doesn’t give you much time to revive fallen players specially on p2 and p3… in the end a little mistake and you have to wait or do boss over and over again…. I doubt thats someone’s idea of fun!
i think this update will only increase the discrimination between players and in the end will deprive the other less playing to enjoy all gw2 content.
Dungeons were fun no matter how difficult they are because no matter the deaths you can join and PLAY! now a simple mistake makes them most boring part of the game.
So PUG teams can now go around map and collect herbs and try to feel like playing something… Half my guild left gw2 because of updates like this one and same happened in GW years ago. Cheers to all the PRO-s. who enjoy that will be fun watching em showing off in their own self-acclaimed guilds.

Noir.3241:

1. “Because each profession is so versatile and has such a wide range of skills and powers, it doesn’t matter what mix of professions are on the battlefield.” with the increasing of the difficulty there is increasing need of special classes and soon there will be " LFG only Mesmers and Warriors" . As and example take p2 CoF where the need of AoE is increasing.

NO. Each ‘profession’ is viable in every ‘ROLE’, but you must still have a team that covers every ‘role’ to some degree. (support, control, dps).

Noir.3241:

2. The WP changes. If i remember correctly anet was strongly against lying dead waiting for resurrection ( in this case revive) and now…..! Here i want to make personal example – died on Alpha because of d/c then had to wait 30 min!!!! until the last party member fall down??!?! And what if in the PUG team the members aren’t completely friendly?!?!? So i have to wait for the last-selfish-hero-type to decide to back off from combat so i can use WP??!? and thats just because i had d/c?!?! + subject alpha doesn’t give you much time to revive fallen players specially on p2 and p3… in the end a little mistake and you have to wait or do boss over and over again…. I doubt thats someone’s idea of fun!
i think this update will only increase the discrimination between players and in the end will deprive the other less playing to enjoy all gw2 content.

Actually I believe even the selfish players will rez you now. Selfish players want to get stuff done faster, and 2 maning a boss is pretty slow. It is now in a selfish players best interests to rez you as soon as your down, and help to keep you in the fight.

Silidus.7985:

Noir.3241:

1. “Because each profession is so versatile and has such a wide range of skills and powers, it doesn’t matter what mix of professions are on the battlefield.” with the increasing of the difficulty there is increasing need of special classes and soon there will be " LFG only Mesmers and Warriors" . As and example take p2 CoF where the need of AoE is increasing.

NO. Each ‘profession’ is viable in every ‘ROLE’, but you must still have a team that covers every ‘role’ to some degree. (support, control, dps).

Noir.3241:

2. The WP changes. If i remember correctly anet was strongly against lying dead waiting for resurrection ( in this case revive) and now…..! Here i want to make personal example – died on Alpha because of d/c then had to wait 30 min!!!! until the last party member fall down??!?! And what if in the PUG team the members aren’t completely friendly?!?!? So i have to wait for the last-selfish-hero-type to decide to back off from combat so i can use WP??!? and thats just because i had d/c?!?! + subject alpha doesn’t give you much time to revive fallen players specially on p2 and p3… in the end a little mistake and you have to wait or do boss over and over again…. I doubt thats someone’s idea of fun!
i think this update will only increase the discrimination between players and in the end will deprive the other less playing to enjoy all gw2 content.

Actually I believe even the selfish players will rez you now. Selfish players want to get stuff done faster, and 2 maning a boss is pretty slow. It is now in a selfish players best interests to rez you as soon as your down, and help to keep you in the fight.

I fell about laughing for about 15 min … you stand still … get downed … and die as well, I have lost count of how many times a person goes to res someone, and gets downed as well … and two people die, not one. But still … in an ideal world, you can dream. The boss will NEVER target you when you are healing up someone of course.

I suggest both of us stop posting, it is getting very heated now.

Talissa Chan.7208:

Silidus – Could you stop adding opinion posts and “omg i was the hero and killed everything kay” stories. This is comments from players for the devs – this is not a thread marked “heres how you should play kay?” There are a crapton of disgruntled players and you’re obviously just riling them up and saying l2p. Let themspeak without being called idiots.

Translation; “Please stop posting anything that doesn’t agree with me or my opinion”.

Honestly, I am trying to provide positive input and counterpoints to a lot of the ‘slippery slope’ arguments going on on this thread. Dev’s have asked for feedback, not for ‘only negative feedback’.

Personally I think the changes have made a great improvement to the game, and have created some extreamely positive experiences for me, as a player, and I am sure for many many others. The Devs deserve to know that.

@Silidus: the point is not about casual = bad. And the problem is not about “normal” instances like AC or HotW which with a bit of practice and l2p everyone can master (and agree, that gear and class composition has unlike other games very little impact here).
The issue is with those dungeons that for the big majority were extremely difficult even with decent skill and good gear, e.g. CoE, Arah.

So for the easier ones, that you anyway clear without wipe, it doesn’t matter if you can’t WP rez (it does not make the encounter more challenging, just more annoying for the occasional accident that may always happen). And for the ones that before patch were already so difficult that it was hard to find a group wanting to run them, now they are simply out of reach for a casual (even a good one) gamer.
Does it hurt? Not necessarily, but it will simply make content that was anyway rarely frequented (such as CoE) even less appealing to the player community. And that is not what I imagine to be the goal of any MMO vendor in the business …

I did CoE explorable paths 2 and 3 last night… I love the concept of actually working as a team instead of just having a dps-dodge fest but… How can we possibly be expected to work together to get each other up when there’s constantly aoes that will one-shot you if you don’t move? That doesn’t promote teamwork and is a surefire way to cause a wipe. If you do wipe, you have to start all over again. Yeah, you said you lowered Alpha’s hit points but not enough to be noticable. The fights are still incredibly long and draining. Now without being able to run back and rejoin the fight before your last teammate dies and the fight resets, you have to start from the beginning and try again. Yes, players are not supposed to be going down; they’re supposed to be dodging but an instant of lag or a half-second of distraction and you’re done. There’s little forgiveness for even the tiniest mistake. Perhaps instead of completely restricting waypointing during combat, allow party members to run back if 3/5 members are dead. If not in other dungeons, at least this one, to make up for the intensity and unforgiving nature of the Alpha fights.

Also, destroyer. Destroyer, destroyer, destroyer, destroyer. After reading the update notes, I was expecting him to be greatly improved. I was severely disappointed. If you really increased the window time, it’s not obvious. This fight still takes waay too long and is extremely tedious. I love the concept of the fight but I don’t want to do a fight like that for that long. We need some variety to loosen up the intensely boring nature of that fight. Perhaps having him teleport onto the ledge and chasing us around for a couple minutes would decrease the monotony and increase the fun and stragety of the encounter.
Also, I don’t remember the lava damaging you while dead in it. Whether it did or didn’t before the patch, however, is irrelevant. What is relevant is that it doesn’t promote teamwork, which was said to be the intended goal of the changes to these dungeons. My group went down and sacrificed themselves trying to revive the guys that fell in only to discover that they couldn’t because the lava constantly undid all resurrecting they attempted. Please either a) teleport them to a safe spot if they die in the lava like you said you did for CoF story or b) open the waypoints for this fight. Don’t make us sit down there and hope our team gets out of combat so we can waypoint and run back making this fight even longer and more tedious than it already is.

Finally, you did a great job fixing the exploits but you didn’t fix the bugs! After 4 tries on the first Alpha encounter in p3, we finally downed him only to discover that the doors refused to open. Thankfully, we had a mesmer who figured out how to blink through the door and portal us through so we were able to progress. Yes, it is technically an exploit, however we completed the fight before it and had the right to pass through the doorway. Due to the bug, we were forced to either give up then and there or find a way around. When things aren’t bugged, we don’t have to exploit. Please fix the bugs so we don’t have to find work-arounds!

Jabuticaba.7458:

@Silidus: the point is not about casual = bad. And the problem is not about “normal” instances like AC or HotW which with a bit of practice and l2p everyone can master (and agree, that gear and class composition has unlike other games very little impact here).
The issue is with those dungeons that for the big majority were extremely difficult even with decent skill and good gear, e.g. CoE, Arah.

So for the easier ones, that you anyway clear without wipe, it doesn’t matter if you can’t WP rez (it does not make the encounter more challenging, just more annoying for the occasional accident that may always happen). And for the ones that before patch were already so difficult that it was hard to find a group wanting to run them, now they are simply out of reach for a casual (even a good one) gamer.
Does it hurt? Not necessarily, but it will simply make content that was anyway rarely frequented (such as CoE) even less appealing to the player community. And that is not what I imagine to be the goal of any MMO vendor in the business …

@Jabuticaba.7458 – That was the first, constructive response I have seen… thank you.

I don’t disagree that there is a large amount of content that is unbalanced, or was only (or almost only) complete-able by using bad or stupid tactics. While this patch does address some of those areas (CoF path 2 ‘plant the bomb’, event in particular), I know there are lots more that need to be addressed.

The most important thing though, (and something lost on this thread) is that in order to balance these events propertly, players must first be forced to attempt them legitimately, without res-running or terrain glitching tactics. Then and only then can they be addressed.

Jabuticaba.7458:

The issue is with those dungeons that for the big majority were extremely difficult even with decent skill and good gear, e.g. CoE, Arah.

Giganticus Lupicus (and Subject Alpha to an extent) have been solo some players and duo’ed by many. These fights are not “extremely difficult” for groups, although they might require a little bit of effort to learn what they actually do.

Lupicus only has one or two moves you need to learn to look out for. For instance, he crosses his arms right before he does his large AoE. Most PUGs just wait for the red circles and then complain that they had no time to react and that it was unfair. (Even though he has a unique animation that had almost 2 seconds of wind-up)

Need to find out how to do this quote thing …
@Silidus:

I think in parts we agree, especially regarding the part to try to learn to master an encounter legitimally. But contrary to you, I (and apparently many others) do not consider “res-running” (actually it seems no one even used this term before it was branded this way by this patch) as a “tactic” (much less illegitimate) other than in CoF path 2 Maggi event. It is simply an unavoidable (and not even fun) necessity in some cases.
Removing it will make an anyway painful experience (no one likes to pay repair bills and do the “corpse run” across the whole dungeon that we dreaded so much in WoW) even less enjoyable. Plus: it makes learning slower since you simply spend less time on target.

@Nokaru: what is easy for some can surely be difficult for others and from what I read here and from my personal experience, the majority is tending to find at least those subjects difficult indeed.
And yes, I have learned a lot and can dodge – at least to an extent that I could solo kite Subject Alpha for long enough that 4 dead teammates could run back on path 2 (and it’s a long walk). Maybe difficult is not the right term – I would say: unforgiving. One split second not paid attention, hit the wrong key, latency problem (I play on EU server, but live in Brazil) or simply RNG bad luck when you get chain imprisoned with all blinks etc. on CD and you are dead and it is 80% of the time not feasible to be rezzed. And then the consequence now is: full wipe for all instead of just one guy paying the bill and do the corpse run.

And again: the only time I cleared CoE wipe-free was with a team that was using exploits and that is not what I consider worthwhile learning.

Also when we start the skill discussion: why can’t we benefit more from our class or utility skills? Why not be able to daze, blind or knockdown a boss when we see the cleave coming? The way it stands, most encounters seem to favor autoattack and dodge roll as the only 2 keys we need to press in the correct millisecond …

Jabuticaba.7458:

Also when we start the skill discussion: why can’t we benefit more from our class or utility skills? Why not be able to daze, blind or knockdown a boss when we see the cleave coming? The way it stands, most encounters seem to favor autoattack and dodge roll as the only 2 keys we need to press in the correct millisecond …

You actually can. Bosses have a permanent buff called ‘unshakable’ which grants them stacks of ‘Defiant’. Defiant stacks absorb crowd control skills, like chill/knockback/daze tec, but will loose one stack for each application. The trick is to hit the boss with enough CC (usually just one by each player) to use up the defiant stacks.. after that, you can interrupt most attacks (not sure about all attacks or every boss).

The above is mostly theory though, since I usually run with pug groups I have occasionally been able to drop the stacks of defiant and CC a boss, but usually its just safer to dodge or use another ability to mitigate the attack for the whole group.

Given the most recent patch, I won’t be attempting a dungeon again and consider this aspect of game content a complete write off (for me) because of the difficulty of content that’s already excessively difficult. There’s “challenging,” and then there’s “unreasonable,” and I feel that the demands of dungeons in this game far exceed “challenging” to the point where only hardcore and highly gifted players stand a chance at success. Average players like me (and even talented players like my friend) find dungeons to be a chaotic, frustrating experience.

Though I agree with the developers on the point that dungeons should embody team work and rezzing players, in my experience, this has never happened. Though dungeons are designed this way, this doesn’t necessarily mean that players will be willing (or able) to play in a style that developers intended. I’ve always been told to run back when I die, and when I’ve tried rezzing other players I always die because I’m a light armour class and am usually killed in one to two shots. There’s too much activity going on to play in the way dungeons were designed, and in a group of only five, this is an extremely difficult task.

I mean no offence whatsoever by this (and I’m a writer, not a game designer, so I’m just theorizing here) but perhaps it should be considered that, if players are innovating their gameplay to find a way around a system of play that is too difficult, the problem may be with the design. I’m sure there are some hardcore players out there with the reflexes and button mashing speed of a cheetah who can handle this, but for the average player (or even “good” or “great” players), dungeons exceed the limits of what the average player is capable of, which is why players are compensating by rez-rushing.

I appreciate the spirit in which developers designed dungeons, but average to good players, especially those who are trying to learn dungeons in the context of this innovative design, will miss out on this content because we simply don’t have the ability to handle it while in the learning phase.

Some suggestions that might motivate players to rez others:

1. Players should get a buff while rezzing another player that either greatly increases their toughness or renders them temporarily immune to attacks for a few seconds.

2. Players (or the entire group) get an increase in health (or health regeneration) while rezzing other players.

Anyway, please don’t flame me because I’m honest enough to admit I’m not a hardcore, highly talented player. I’m not knocking the game, I’m merely trying to provide feedback in an effort to improve the game in the long run.

@Silidus: I learned something new – I saw this defiance de-stacking with CC but was wondering what it was good for.

Will try more consciously next time.

Castrella.9817:

Though dungeons are designed this way, this doesn’t necessarily mean that players will be willing (or able) to play in a style that developers intended. I’ve always been told to run back when I die, and when I’ve tried rezzing other players I always die because I’m a light armour class and am usually killed in one to two shots.

Hi Castrella,

Don’t give up just yet! I understand how you feel and it sounds like you have run some dungeons with some bad groups. The good news is that I think many of the things that frustrated you are actually addressed in this patch.

Castrella.9817:

Though dungeons are designed this way, this doesn’t necessarily mean that players will be willing (or able) to play in a style that developers intended. I’ve always been told to run back when I die, and when I’ve tried rezzing other players I always die because I’m a light armour class and am usually killed in one to two shots.

Well the good news is that they can’t tell you to “just run back” any more. Everyone lives and dies together. They need you, you need them.

Castrella.9817:

I mean no offence whatsoever by this (and I’m a writer, not a game designer, so I’m just theorizing here) but perhaps it should be considered that, if players are innovating their gameplay to find a way around a system of play that is too difficult, the problem is with the design.

I think that was the point. The game design was flawed, and encouraged players to just keep DPS up while expecting their teammates to res and run back. No teamwork, no interaction, no comradeship. There is still a problem with some fights being too difficult under the current mechanic. Hopefully these can now be addressed properly now that players are forced to attempt the fights legitimately.

Castrella.9817:

Some suggestions that might motivate players to rez others:

1. Players should get a buff while rezzing another player that either greatly increases their toughness or renders them temporarily immune to attacks for a few seconds.

2. Players (or the entire group) get an increase in health (or health regeneration) while rezzing other players.

The good news is that this is already in the game. Every class has an Adept level Major Trait which assists when attempting to revive a down player. Some classes get shields, buffs, protection etc. If you find yourself in a group where you just keep needing to res others, and are having trouble staying alive to do it swap in one of these traits.

I think you missed the point silidus. Please make a post in a new thread on “tipis and tricks to survive dungeons” this post is where you’re lead to share your experiences with the DEVS not be told “sure casual players aren’t bad players but learn your class kay?” not all players want to bind their keys a set way, play their builds a set way and learn the animations and cooldown times on every skill on every class of character they have. Some casual players have to drop everything mid fight because the wife needs the son watched for a quick 5 mins, some people NEED the ability to leave and map back in 5 minutes when the issues been solved. Or a quick run to the loo suddenly, an important work call. There are people living very different lives from you. Please leave this thread for its purpose – to send a message to the actual important folks who made the game.

So i was reading everyone moaning about the wp change.
IMO i feel that dungeons should not be easy, it should only be for people that can play.
The PUGs should first learn how to play in the open world and WvW.
It should discourage PUGS from using the LFG so that I and others will only find people there worth playing with.
Also it will make dungeon gear better than exotics and say something to others.
It will also make DM so much more satisfiying

I just have one issue to post, which is REALLY ANNOYING,

just did fractal lvl 13 today, with a ranger and a necro , bouth condition damage, the rest are not important, and i would like to specify that we had to call it quits because
CONDITIONS fell of instantly from the ice elemental boss in the dredge fractal, now , if arena net said dungeons can be played with any kind of character, my question comes, what would 3 condition damage chars and 2 physical do in this case ?

or worse, 5 condition damage chars,

hmm ?

this is the question that goes on any kind of dungeon and any legendary boss.

Talissa Chan.7208:

I think you missed the point silidus. Please make a post in a new thread on “tipis and tricks to survive dungeons” this post is where you’re lead to share your experiences with the DEVS not be told “sure casual players aren’t bad players but learn your class kay?” not all players want to bind their keys a set way, play their builds a set way and learn the animations and cooldown times on every skill on every class of character they have. Some casual players have to drop everything mid fight because the wife needs the son watched for a quick 5 mins, some people NEED the ability to leave and map back in 5 minutes when the issues been solved. Or a quick run to the loo suddenly, an important work call. There are people living very different lives from you. Please leave this thread for its purpose – to send a message to the actual important folks who made the game.

No offence, but I think you are in the wrong thread. We all understand the pressures of work, interruptions from kids or spouse, or just generally more important stuff that comes up in life. It happens.

That said. That has little or nothing to do with the recent dungeon changes. If you are in my dungeon group, and you need a 5 min break to deal with RL.. you got it, I understand and so will everyone else.

But if your in a dungeon, and you don’t want to learn the mechanics of the boss… well i think your in the wrong place. There is a wide world of PvE out there and plenty to enjoy for everyone.

The question before this thread is in regards to the recent changes to the waypoint mechanism, how it affects gameplay, and how players as a whole are reacting and need to modify their approach to dungeons. You may see that as being ‘please vent here’, but some of us feel these changes are very positive and would like to attest to that. This includes opinions on other posts ‘slippery slope’ arguements with regard to the effect of the recent patches (see thread topic again) and gameplay.

Copy/past :

Crucible of Eternity is now impossible …. if someone die in your group vs subject alpha, it’s over.

Subject Alpha + the new system = impossible.

Awesome Arena net, Thank you for ruining our pleasure, continue like this, freaking genius

I have completed almost every dungeon in the game. Hard dungeons were really hard as they were, now they are almost impossible. Was it your purpose to make hard dungeons impossible? Do you really think that avarage player can defeat Lupicus for explample with no wp on 1st time seeing it?

It was really hard to find party for dungeons before now i dont think I can do it anymore after so many people I have played after upragade have just rage-quited and promised to never play dungeons anymore.

Abaut the goal u tried to achief: I dont think it’s even possible to ress people at most dungeons. I have almost maxed armor and tougness u can get in game and skill bar full of defensive skills and I’m still not tank enough to ress people in most dungeons. It’s not abaut people not wanting to do teamwork it’s abaut enemies having so much damage even full tank cant ress other people.

You should either allow people to use wp:s or to ress more effectively, first one is my favourite.

Two pieces of feedback:

1.) Whenever I ran a dungeon, and had to use a waypoint during a fight, it wasn’t because I was trying to game the system, it was because we had to due to reasons I’m going to state below.

2.) The big complaint regarding the dungeons is that you guys designed a new trinity around damage, support, and control. This trinity was made perfectly clear as the alternative in design to the common tank/healer/DPS trinity that other MMO’s sport. However, with the dungeons, you take that trinity… then made most of their bosses control immune and most support on a long cool down. What does this do? It relegates two roles in their trinity, and shoves everyone into a damage role.

Until this is fixed? You’re going to continue having problems with number one, and continue to make me feel that I have to respec my control/defense warrior into a DPS role. That’s a shame, because according to everything that your development team was writing before the game was launched, his control build should be perfectly viable.

Like many posters I’m not a fan of the WP rez change. I understand what its getting at thought so I’m not fully turned off by it in theory, even though its current implementation sours me. The issue it tries to address is not just isolated to dungeons, you see it in big events like Balthazar and Grenth as well: rather than rezzing defeated toons people will tell them to WP and run back. It really does remove a team/help aspect from the game by telling players “you’re defeated? well you’re on your own”.

Like others have said, this actively discourages people from wanting to dungeoneer. Even with an experienced team, once one person goes down, the team’s performance drops by 1/5. However, if you send even one person to resurrect that comrade, then team performance drops by another 1/5. Given the length of time it takes to resurrect someone in combat, you will now be at 3/5 capacity for an extended period. In the best case scenario, one member can kite or otherwise occupy all the antagonists while you have 3 people resurrect the defeated comrade. However this still takes a long time and you simply need one more mistake to have two people dropped, at which point you’re pretty well buggered. There are events that reflect this difficulty, such as retaking/repairing the camp at the Colonnade Waypoint in Malchor’s Leap where you must keep engineers alive / resurrect them while undead overrun everything. Where there are tricks to aid in resurrection (e.g. stealth, aegis, etc), they do not address the fundamental problem.

The primary reason things are now difficult and that people refuse to resurrect during big events is that it takes a very long time to resurrect people. Its takes you out of the fight, both diminishing your team’s ability (as above) and taking you out of the fun. It strikes me that the easiest solution would be to reduce the resurrection time in PvE. I note that such a change would be PvE only as very rapid resurrections in WvW could very easily make for infinite armies on both sides of a battle.