Guild Wars 2

ChairGraveyard.2967:

@Cy Pres, I don’t think you get it. It now costs you money to run these dungeons.

There is now zero incentive (and in fact, a huge disincentive) to run dungeons because you literally lose money every time.

I absolutely get it. What I don’t understand is why you’re willing to go to a job to make $60 to buy the game, but not spend virtual money to play a dungeon, have some fun, meet new people, and experience a different side to that game?

rhodoc.2381: No they wont since this is not challenge nor fun.

That’s why I said “Now people will play dungeons for the challenge or move on”. On dungeons like CM they’ll move on because it is boring and unchallenging. AC, on the other hand, is very challenging and fun. ANet will notice that and fix CM.

So just up the rewards and everyone is happy?

nbates.4701:

rhodoc.2381: No they wont since this is not challenge nor fun.

That’s why I said “Now people will play dungeons for the challenge or move on”. On dungeons like CM they’ll move on because it is boring and unchallenging. AC, on the other hand, is very challenging and fun. ANet will notice that and fix CM.

They’ve already “fixed” CM
I dont have faith on another “fix” if its not a rollback

ChairGraveyard.2967:

@Cy Pres, I don’t think you get it. It now costs you money to run these dungeons. They are literally a losing proposition every time. Personally, if I wanted to spend an hour or more on a dungeon only to be robbed of silver, I’d rather just go throw it away at the mystic forge instead.

There is now zero incentive (and in fact, a huge disincentive) to run dungeons because you literally lose money every time.

It might cost you money if you get defeated a lot of times. Otherwise, your statement is false. Again, anet stated already before launch that explorable mode dungeons are not meant to be completed by pugs.

defi.4127:

ChairGraveyard.2967:

@Cy Pres, I don’t think you get it. It now costs you money to run these dungeons. They are literally a losing proposition every time. Personally, if I wanted to spend an hour or more on a dungeon only to be robbed of silver, I’d rather just go throw it away at the mystic forge instead.

There is now zero incentive (and in fact, a huge disincentive) to run dungeons because you literally lose money every time.

It might cost you money if you get defeated a lot of times. Otherwise, your statement is false. Again, anet stated already before launch that explorable mode dungeons are not meant to be completed by pugs.

Yes but they changed Story mode today as well

VoiceOfUnreason.5976:

opivm.7824:

That’s the point.

Obviously the point was to stop people from running the 30 minute dungeon. What I’m saying is that it’s the wrong mindset. Not everyone has the time, or the desire to run a 4 hour dungeon, but they love to run the 30 minute one. So why not lessen the reward of the 30 minute and increase the reward of the 4 hour? All they’ve done thus far is cripple the reward of running ANYTHING multiple times, but that doesn’t even remotely address the underlying issue. It’s more like a hotfix to prevent players from going too fast.

Yup, the WoW haters-fanbase would LOVE those 4 hours dungeon, but ANET must keep in mind there is a huge base of casual players, which cannot spend so much time with an event that won’t reward them properly (e.g. money and tokens).

Not only did they nerf the rewards into making it a waste of time to replay story mode, but they also increased the difficulty.

cm story has extra champions, snipers, conditons, doggies upgraded to silver and do fear, and the whoppping reward: 1 silver 8kxp

love 2 kneejerk reaction

For some reason, I can’t seem to quote right now…
In reply to Opvium, I am one of those casual players.
I don’t like farming all day because I don’t have the pleasure of being able to be on for hours straight.
I am extremely upset with the dungeons in this game.
Spend 2-4 hours in a dungeon, spend around 2-6 silver repairing armor, get 1 silver as the reward?
No thanks.
Plain stupid.

conquista, I asked the same.
No real reply yet
Just bragging right I guess

McSneaky.9037:

Not only did they nerf the rewards into making it a waste of time to replay story mode, but they also increased the difficulty.

cm story has extra champions, snipers, conditons, doggies upgraded to silver and do fear, and the whoppping reward: 1 silver 8kxp

“Replay story mode”. Exactly.
They changed story mode to give less rewards for people that already did it, if you were using story mode to grind yourself money and don’t want to do it anymore, then they effectively put a stop to grinding. I see no problem, the rewards are good when you complete them for the first time.

Can’t comment about difficulty increase, perhaps that was unnecessary, perhaps not. There certainly were other story mode dungeons that were harder than the manor.

McSneaky.9037:

Not only did they nerf the rewards into making it a waste of time to replay story mode, but they also increased the difficulty.

cm story has extra champions, snipers, conditons, doggies upgraded to silver and do fear, and the whoppping reward: 1 silver 8kxp

That’s amazing. Thanks for the heads up so I can avoid wasting money running that dungeon. Though I imagine it’s the same across all of them, barely any reward for over an hour’s worth of play each time.

To ArenaNet: Prior to this update, I was interested in completing each of the dungeons. Now, I won’t get to play any of them because no one will group for a dungeon to simply lose money and get almost nothing out of it. I am extremely disappointed in this poorly thought out (add the anti-farming and anti-event systems to that as well) change.

Pony.3256:

For some reason, I can’t seem to quote right now…
In reply to Opvium, I am one of those casual players.
I don’t like farming all day because I don’t have the pleasure of being able to be on for hours straight.
I am extremely upset with the dungeons in this game.
Spend 2-4 hours in a dungeon, spend around 2-6 silver repairing armor, get 1 silver as the reward?
No thanks.
Plain stupid.

THIS. Thank you for your understanding.

defi.4127:

McSneaky.9037:

Not only did they nerf the rewards into making it a waste of time to replay story mode, but they also increased the difficulty.

cm story has extra champions, snipers, conditons, doggies upgraded to silver and do fear, and the whoppping reward: 1 silver 8kxp

“Replay story mode”. Exactly.
They changed story mode to give less rewards for people that already did it, if you were using story mode to grind yourself money and don’t want to do it anymore, then they effectively put a stop to grinding. I see no problem, the rewards are good when you complete them for the first time.

Can’t comment about difficulty increase, perhaps that was unnecessary, perhaps not. There certainly were other story mode dungeons that were harder than the manor.

I’m sorry, but what game have you played where you can’t keep running the same dungeon?
Dungeons are there to have fun and then after all your hard work, you get amazing loot.
That’s how it’s been in every game I have ever played.
This game is ridiculous.
You put in hours for a dungeon run only to lose money.
Not make it.
You get 1 silver for the reward and spend about 2-6 silver on repairing.
Are you saying that after we run story mode once, we shouldn’t run it again?
What kind of kitten is that?

Also, I completed CM for the first time last night on my guardian and got 80 copper.
How is that good?
I spent about 2 silver repairing.

defi.4127:

ChairGraveyard.2967:

@Cy Pres, I don’t think you get it. It now costs you money to run these dungeons. They are literally a losing proposition every time. Personally, if I wanted to spend an hour or more on a dungeon only to be robbed of silver, I’d rather just go throw it away at the mystic forge instead.

There is now zero incentive (and in fact, a huge disincentive) to run dungeons because you literally lose money every time.

It might cost you money if you get defeated a lot of times. Otherwise, your statement is false. Again, anet stated already before launch that explorable mode dungeons are not meant to be completed by pugs.

You will get defeated a bunch of time for some classes.

I play an elementalist, 30 water, 30 earth, all knights gear with vit runes. If I miss one kitten dodge in several parts of CoF I get 1-shot KO’d and it’s very difficulty for my party to res me in those fights, frequently leading to death and repair costs.

darkehawke.1269:

nbates.4701:

rhodoc.2381: No they wont since this is not challenge nor fun.

That’s why I said “Now people will play dungeons for the challenge or move on”. On dungeons like CM they’ll move on because it is boring and unchallenging. AC, on the other hand, is very challenging and fun. ANet will notice that and fix CM.

They’ve already “fixed” CM
I dont have faith on another “fix” if its not a rollback

I don’t like CM. That’s why I only played it twice (To check if it gave the same XP both times) and reported it as giving too much XP. Then I moved on to other content because I didn’t find that particular content to be any fun.

Now, instead of doing that, many people was playing the dungeon just for the loot. That ruined any chance of getting that particular content fixed. What Anet did is the right thing, they removed the reward incentive to REplay the dungeon. Now they can start collecting data to see if people still plays CM for the FUN. They’ll probably find out people only play the dungeon once or twice and leave. Only then they can review the dungeon and fix it.

On the other hand, I think people will still play AC. I found it challenging and fun and will definetly replay it. Even if I get no XP except that the XP for the kills.

Now, I can see there is another posibility opening. Let’s say I like AC but I also want XP… now I have a new challenge… finding an alternative way of wining the dungeon to get the full XP.

TL;DR: Thank you Anet for doing your job to get the product you promised and not just another grindy mmo.

defi.4127:

Shiren

I suspect that, unfortunately, ArenaNet will dismiss most of the negative feedback as a knee jerk to losing the “easy” rewards

I hope they do, cause that’s exactly what this thread is full of.

I agree. These are the same people who have a gimme gimme attitude and once they’ve played for 6 weeks will complain that’s theres nothing to do.

As far as I’m concerned they can go back and do their 900 dailies in wow – or run heroics where badges are still capped.

I’m amazed that people think you should get badge gear in this game in a week. It’s really sad.

defi.4127:

McSneaky.9037:

Not only did they nerf the rewards into making it a waste of time to replay story mode, but they also increased the difficulty.

cm story has extra champions, snipers, conditons, doggies upgraded to silver and do fear, and the whoppping reward: 1 silver 8kxp

“Replay story mode”. Exactly.
They changed story mode to give less rewards for people that already did it, if you were using story mode to grind yourself money and don’t want to do it anymore, then they effectively put a stop to grinding. I see no problem, the rewards are good when you complete them for the first time.

Can’t comment about difficulty increase, perhaps that was unnecessary, perhaps not. There certainly were other story mode dungeons that were harder than the manor.

So… its great to nerf the rewards to the point that people will not want to help others who still have yet to do story mode for the first time? GREAT IDEA.
Its already bad enough for certain dungeons trying to find people still doing the story mode dungeons. Seems like they’re trying to make it so that unless you have great friends who don’t mind risking a hefty repair bill as you learn to go through the dungeon, or perfect timing between the few people left to do story mode as time goes on…

I like the patch. I realize I’m in the minority in the forums, but there is a portion of the player base who does not hate what ANet has done in the latest patch.

I hated the way it was before the patch, with Caudecus’ Manor being a joke in difficulty and being unable to find an Arah, Sorrow’s Embrace, Twilight Arbor or Citadel of Flames group that wasn’t a speed clear farming group. Maybe now I’ll be able to get a group that actually plays through the dungeon.

I don’t mind that story mode rewards have been decreased; that was never my main source of income in the game anyway. I don’t mind that difficulty on some dungeons were upped; even some of my more casual guildies have commented that dungeons were getting easy after I showed them the ropes.

So thanks ANet, for the great game. Thanks for staying true to your vision of a game for players. You might lose some of the hardcore farmers, but in the long run the players that love your game will find more to love for your efforts.

nbates.4701:

darkehawke.1269:

nbates.4701:

rhodoc.2381: No they wont since this is not challenge nor fun.

That’s why I said “Now people will play dungeons for the challenge or move on”. On dungeons like CM they’ll move on because it is boring and unchallenging. AC, on the other hand, is very challenging and fun. ANet will notice that and fix CM.

They’ve already “fixed” CM
I dont have faith on another “fix” if its not a rollback

I don’t like CM. That’s why I only played it twice (To check if it gave the same XP both times) and reported it as giving too much XP. Then I moved on to other content because I didn’t find that particular content to be any fun.

Now, instead of doing that, many people was playing the dungeon just for the loot. That ruined any chance of getting that particular content fixed. What Anet did is the right thing, they removed the reward incentive to REplay the dungeon. Now they can start collecting data to see if people still plays CM for the FUN. They’ll probably find out people only play the dungeon once or twice and leave. Only then they can review the dungeon and fix it.

On the other hand, I think people will still play AC. I found it challenging and fun and will definetly replay it. Even if I get no XP except that the XP for the kills.

Now, I can see there is another posibility opening. Let’s say I like AC but I also want XP… now I have a new challenge… finding an alternative way of wining the dungeon to get the full XP.

TL;DR: Thank you Anet for doing your job to get the product you promised and not just another grindy mmo.

No they didnt just REmove the reward gains. if that was the case then i wouldnt be complaining. They drastically made it harder as well as reducing the rewards

~waits for programmer from ANet to come out saying they threw in a few lines of bad code and it’s all just a huggggeee misunderstanding~

Pallar.5728:

I like the patch. I realize I’m in the minority in the forums, but there is a portion of the player base who does not hate what ANet has done in the latest patch.

I hated the way it was before the patch, with Caudecus’ Manor being a joke in difficulty and being unable to find an Arah, Sorrow’s Embrace, Twilight Arbor or Citadel of Flames group that wasn’t a speed clear farming group. Maybe now I’ll be able to get a group that actually plays through the dungeon.

I don’t mind that story mode rewards have been decreased; that was never my main source of income in the game anyway. I don’t mind that difficulty on some dungeons were upped; even some of my more casual guildies have commented that dungeons were getting easy after I showed them the ropes.

So thanks ANet, for the great game. Thanks for staying true to your vision of a game for players. You might lose some of the hardcore farmers, but in the long run the players that love your game will find more to love for your efforts.

and what about the players who wont be able to do the dungeons for the first time.
you admit in your post you showed people how to run through the dungeons. well there is now zero incentive for showing anyone how to do anything in dungeons in story mode.

your post reads as “i dont care, i’m not affected, screw everyone else who is”

IMO, dungeons are not run for gold or experience. They should be run for tokens. However, because not everyone wants the same dungeon tokens, there isn’t much incentive to help others run dungeons if gold and experience are dropped.

I think dungeons giving universal token is not a good answer, either. This will only make people run the easier dungeons. Therefore, I think a dungeon token conversion to a universal token would be a good solution. Probably something like 5:1 since tokens drop in sets of 5.

Additionally, perhaps 5 bonus dungeon token for completing all routes of a dungeon would be nice, as well as 5 bonus universal tokens for completing all dungeon routes of all dungeons.

Pallar.5728:

I like the patch. I realize I’m in the minority in the forums, but there is a portion of the player base who does not hate what ANet has done in the latest patch.
(…)
So thanks ANet, for the great game. Thanks for staying true to your vision of a game for players. You might lose some of the hardcore farmers, but in the long run the players that love your game will find more to love for your efforts.

Only in the forums, people at ANet is not stupid and realize that there was a minority grinding dungeons while the rest of us just moved on to other content. Once they decided to stop the grind fest, that minority came to the forum to complain. The rest of the player base won’t even notice this change because they don’t power play the game.

The reason I’m here is because by chance I happened to report CM as a possible exploit some days ago. so I was happily surprised when I saw this fixed today. I’m glad ANet is doing their work, they are making a loyal customer of me.

Give dungeons the chance to drop the dungeon weapons/armor, i know i would defiantly be more enthusiastic to complete dungeons then

Wearing dungeon gear should be an indicator that you have done something of note.

Getting it should not be easy.

It should not be fast.

When it is either of those things, they need to change it like they have.

Likewise, if a specific aspect of the game rewards tedium or easy(ier) activities with too much gold, then that has the potential to devastate the economic balance when taken alongside players who choose not to do that activities. Once again, that warrants change.

As I said earlier, I applaud the decisions Anet made. It is an indicator that they are committed to all players and keeping the game in check for everyone, not just a very vocal minority.

What Anet fails to see if CoF was the correct way of making a dungeon and get tokens and all the others were not worth doing. Now no dungeon is worth doing and it’s back to farming whatever to get the crafted items.

The masses have spoken, CoF WAS made correctly and noone ran the other dungeons cept maybe doing Arah short path for 8 tokens at the time.

Nobody wants to spend a huge amount of time in a dungeon to get token and it actually having to cost you gold. CoF path 2 was perfectly balanced and Anet should make the other dungeons like that instead of the other way around.

You are being naive. Players are saying: “we want rewards, as well as the grind-free promises to come true”; Anet’s stand on this is probably something in the lines of “if we actually did that – no one would play the game when they get what they want and realize there is not much else to do”.

Sadly, there are not enough designers apparently. To have the same skin for EVERY instance is still something rather shocking, isn’t it? Yes, I know the expensive ones are different, but most of them are beyond ugly. I play a ranger and my options are limited to one or two sets, the rest are either repulsive and unimaginative, or simply a variation of the same coat-styled crap. I was thrilled to get the pirate outfit when I was a level 20-30, then I realized this skin is used by perhaps 70% of the medium armor models, or more.

The proper way to solve this problem is very, very simple – introduce a vast number of fresh, DIFFERENT skin models. Not the same copy-paste lazyness. If we had a huge pool of choices – then prices would be lower, the freedom of choice – bigger. Maybe throw in something for players that don’t enjoy grinding the same content all the time?

It’s obvious that the lack of variety and attractive skins is all down to the money Anet wants to make. Of course, that is not something bad, although there needs be some kind of balance. Currently almost anything a player can do is limited by anti-farm codes or the sheer lack of motivation to work for something ugly/overpriced.

First of all I like commend Arena-net on the awesome job they did with the dungeon design. I finished 5 of the 8 story modes and they were epic, higher in quality than WoW dungeons and comparable in epic feel to WoW raids.

In my opinion CoF’s armour skins looks the best so I decided to farm in explorable mode. I was glad to find that you had 5 paths to choose from and all of them have unique mechanics and brand new bosses.

So infact , instead of 8 dungeons we have 8*5=40 dungeons to choose from.

Inspite of the abduance of choice I find myself have to fram Magg in CoF as its the quickest, with a good team I don’t die once.

I find myself running 8 of them everyday and Im growing tired of it. When I think of stopping or go do something else , I feel bad.

I was hoping that you guys would put in WoW’s lockout system or cap how much tokens i earn a week, so I would be forced todo something else and not feel guilty.

But this new system of diminishing returns when you

1) Run the same exact chain over twice in a row
2) Complete multiple dungeons in 30 minutes or less each.

Doesn’t go far enough, it just slows us down , it doesn’t force us to do something else.

If you don’t want to go as far as WoW and have weekly caps or lockouts. Then atleast unify the tokens across all the explorable dungeons so we have a variety and Im not stuck just doing CoF.

JonPeters.5630:

Let me clarify the change a bit since not everyone understands it.

If you run the exact same chain twice in a row you will have your rewards cut. This means you can bounce back and forth between 2 different chains, even in the same dungeon without ever hitting this change. This change is made to encourage people to try different chains.

If you speed clear dungeons at a rate of more than 2/ hour, and continue to do that for some time your rewards will slowly begin to degrade. It doesn’t kick in after running a single dungeon and it doesn’t immediately zero out rewards.

Finally we reduced the value of repeating the story mode, because they are built to be easier and we want to encourage those repeating dungeons to run explore mode.

Must be bugged then, as many people are reporting the diminishing returns kicking in on the second path of a dungeon (without having done it before, and only having done the first path once).

Honestly I hate this change and the anti-farming system SO MUCH. They heavily penalize regular players for just trying to play the game.

Sairenkao.6485:

IMO, dungeons are not run for gold or experience. They should be run for tokens. However, because not everyone wants the same dungeon tokens, there isn’t much incentive to help others run dungeons if gold and experience are dropped.

I think dungeons giving universal token is not a good answer, either. This will only make people run the easier dungeons. Therefore, I think a dungeon token conversion to a universal token would be a good solution. Probably something like 5:1 since tokens drop in sets of 5.

Additionally, perhaps 5 bonus dungeon token for completing all routes of a dungeon would be nice, as well as 5 bonus universal tokens for completing all dungeon routes of all dungeons.

Exactly. Dungeons are run for the GEAR specific to the DUNGEON.

Problem is, how much easier is it for you to get the same effective gear by any other means in the game? … Its like putting a child against Tyson. Its stupidly difficult to get gear via dungeons in comparison to the rest of the methods in the game.

Not to mention you have to run the SAME content repeatedly in order to get the gear you want vs. having the option of exploring nearly all of the rest of the game and accumulating wealth for other methods of acquisition.

So unless there’s a look that makes you weep every time you log in, I suggest not doing dungeons at all.

Having tested the run more recently, I can confirm that the Magg option is currently at the appropriate difficulty tier. My group and I completed the run with minimal issues and minimal deaths. The Door Buster event is completely doable, even with kiting so long as the smokelords are killed first.

It is worth noting that however, we are fully geared to the teeth (and are very very experienced with CoF) and the smoke lords are still overtuned in terms of damage. I am fine with their current damage, but their attacks either need to be slower and/or telegraphed better.

As usual, the Devourer Room and the Bomb Timer Room are of no issue. Clearing the Magmacyte room requires some form of aggro diversion (via summons possibly) or very fast DPS. We chose to utilize aggro diversion or draw aggro ourselves while maintaining steady damage mitigation as we went across using 1 extinguisher and 4 players to control mobs.

The Door Buster room is simply a matter of controlling the mobs during the first 50%. In this specific order do the mobs need to be taken out: Smokelord → Rangers → Elementalist (Firestorm/Fanatics). Shadowblades are a waste of time and should be crippled. When you hit 85%, the remaining fight will just be a matter of damage mitigation and surviving.

Boss fight is no more different than how I did it pre-patch. Any decent squad will take down the flame in two rotations of acolytes.

That’s all I have to say on the matter. At first, I thought that the changes were quite ridiculous, but after having done it (twice, with no failure), I don’t really see a problem with the changes. I would however propose increasing the reward gain so as to incentivize running the dungeons, moreso if all three options are chosen as currently it really penalizes some of the more unfortunate players.

tl;dr: Appropriate rewards for the difficulty level.

P.S: It is impossible to not die in the Door Buster room. At least ONE person will die, even with an organized group.

I haven’t read this entire thread, but I have to ask a question:

How is the "grind" for equipment and the reduced rewards any worse than most MMO’s random-number generators or WoW’s dungeon timers? GW2 is trading the "chance to get your armor in multiple runs" for "guaranteed to get the armor you want in multiple runs" and it is not like you can’t do a variety of paths.

Also keep in mind that the only reason to farm dungeons that quickly is to get the rewards faster. As this game has no subscription, what is the point of doing that? Feel free to take your time and just play the game a few hours/get a couple runs in each day. You have still gotten a good deal for your money.

(though I will agree that the overall number of time you have to run dungeons for a single set seems to be a bit much even if the purpose IS to give you bragging rights and keep you playing longer)

McSneaky.9037:

Not only did they nerf the rewards into making it a waste of time to replay story mode, but they also increased the difficulty.

cm story has extra champions, snipers, conditons, doggies upgraded to silver and do fear, and the whoppping reward: 1 silver 8kxp

This.

Breaks.

My.

Heart.

At least, AT LEAST give us the freaking monetary rewards back, Anet. Keep your insane difficulty you ramped-up if you want it so badly, but give us our rewards back! This is totally backwards!

Not only is it backwards, but CoF was my main cash flow…it made me feel good at mmo’s, and I never really was good at them. It felt like salvation. And even THEN, I STILL had to run it a bajillion and a half times to get the Tier 3 cultural armor that I covet so deeply. Thanks for hashing my dream in half.

BFNK.6748:

You are being naive. Players are saying: “we want rewards, as well as the grind-free promises to come true”; Anet’s stand on this is probably something in the lines of “if we actually did that – no one would play the game when they get what they want and realize there is not much else to do”.

All they did here was make mobs harder and decrease rewards.
Higher difficulty does not always = More Fun.
Less Loot does not always = More Fun.

If they’d spent time really REALLY looking at their dungeons, and saying, “Hey, What is our data saying about areas where people are dying alot…places where we could ramp up the pace, or slow it down because people are running through it too fast. How much loot are people getting vs how many times they run the dungeon”…etc

It feels (and I stress the word FEELS, as I don’t know the inner working of ANet) that they’ve just added more mobs/changed mob difficulty to “solve” the problem.

Here’s a wild idea…if you’re dungeons cost more to run, and decrease fun because of excessive repair bills…then Curb the repair cost for dungeons only, or at least make it free for the first 3 repairs. Something other than just – Moar mobz plzz!

darkehawke.1269:

and what about the players who wont be able to do the dungeons for the first time.
you admit in your post you showed people how to run through the dungeons. well there is now zero incentive for showing anyone how to do anything in dungeons in story mode.

your post reads as “i dont care, i’m not affected, screw everyone else who is”

I don’t know about you, but this patch won’t affect my play behavior in the slightest. I help people in dungeons because I like playing with people and helping out. I concede your point that this disincentivizes some people to help others get through story mode, but I don’t think story mode is so challenging that a competent gamer couldn’t handle it. Explorable mode is where I’ve seen more people asking for help; but regardless, I help people where they need it and have myself a good time wherever that is.

I have to agree with the masses here, some of the most fun I’ve had so far in this game was the Citadel of Flame / Mhagg path. I will admit as well, I was one of those people who ran it repeatedly. I’ve played quite a few dungeons, and really most of them didn’t thrill me. The bulk of the time I wasn’t haven’t a very fun time, that is until I was invited to play a “Speed Run of Citadel of Flame”.

After finishing the run, I found it to be enjoyable and rewarding for the effort put into it. I found the difficulty was reasonable and the coins earned was enough to get a set if I really wanted to put the time and effort into it.

Deep down I knew that ANet wouldn’t stand for it. In the past, during Guild Wars 1, I ran into a few things that were fast and fun to do like CoF that ANet later removed, nerfed, or fixed. That did kill my fun a good bit. I expected the same from CoF, and I also expected people to be very upset about it.

Perhaps ANet needs to reconsider how they are approaching Dungeons and use the original CoF pre-nerf as a model. I hope some positive changes come, but for now I’m going to avoid any and all dungeons until ANet makes some more positive changes. I think they were too greatly harsh with this and in hindsight they may agree. This was mainly implemented as a short-cut to kill Dungeon Grinding.

I hope they back-peddle and reconsider how to handle dungeons, their difficulty, and their rewards. So far they are just not worth the effort and the only one that was, was CoF Pre-Nerf.

I knew this was coming, that’s why I’m not surprised. I look forward to better changes in the future though .

I’m sorry, but I got tired of the only thing I saw in /map chat in LA was “LFM for CoF Expo!”. If nothing else, I’m glad that will be gone. Annoying as heck.

I know! Let’s make it so each piece of equipment is an unguaranteed random drop from one of each of the bosses in one of each of the expo modes! That will be so much less of a grind! >:]

Really guys, you were having FUN in that one expo mode over and over? Please…if that’s the case, your fun is defined by the end result, aka not even close to the philosophy of the game. If it was intended for you to have this stuff quickly, then they’d make it that way.

Pallar.5728:

darkehawke.1269:

and what about the players who wont be able to do the dungeons for the first time.
you admit in your post you showed people how to run through the dungeons. well there is now zero incentive for showing anyone how to do anything in dungeons in story mode.

your post reads as “i dont care, i’m not affected, screw everyone else who is”

I don’t know about you, but this patch won’t affect my play behavior in the slightest. I help people in dungeons because I like playing with people and helping out. I concede your point that this disincentivizes some people to help others get through story mode, but I don’t think story mode is so challenging that a competent gamer couldn’t handle it. Explorable mode is where I’ve seen more people asking for help; but regardless, I help people where they need it and have myself a good time wherever that is.

This is the same story mode after the patch. I’ll give you what you say about story mode before the patch.
And the fact is, i was helping for the fun of it, the reduced reward is a bit of a bummer but oh well, but the addition of more champion mobs and more elites means this is not fun gameplay for people new to dungeons. being constantly stunned and being able to do nothing about it is not fun. A lot of time was spent replacing frustrated players because the difficulty was ramped up.

What i’m saying is less reward or more difficult. Pick one but dont pick them both!

Dungeons being hard is one thing, but getting 1 shot is completely different. Its not hard when you don’t even see what hit you.

I enjoy PvP of this game, but as far as PvE, other than dynamic events, vistas and puzzles, I don’t enjoy anything else.

I don’t really care about the nerf to CoF. It is indeed the end game for the game. Too me the gear is ugly as sin. The only thing I care about is.. HOW IN THE WORLD DO YOU GET CASH NOW!? Seriously, nothing is fun about grinding out dungeons (Lol, which you said, advertised, and sold as a non-grindy game) to get the items you want. The only thing that made it worth it was the coin you got at the end. That way you could buy all of your exotic’s (If you wanted, of course. This is purely my opinion) and then go WvW.

This was the only real efficient way to farm cash. Now, I have no clue what to do. “Farm mats!?” you say? Oh, okay. The best place to farm is Orr, where everywhere you turn there is 500 mobs. So, once you get zerged down by the ridiculous amount of mobs, repair costs negate the gain you’d get. And luckily for me I leveled the most underpowered class in the game (Elementalist) so now whenever I find one trash level 80 mob I have to prepare for it like I am going into a Zone boss. Heh.

Go to a different zone you say? Oh okay, here’s a 5 silver charge for porting. Yeah, again, negated.

No doubt, if this game was subscription based, I would be gone. Not even a 2nd thought. Fortunately they aren’t, and while I loved the first Guild Wars, so far this game has had the roughest launch of any MMO I have played in the past 10 years. Aside from maybe Vanguard and it really makes it hard to stick with this game.

Someone enlighten me. How do you, efficiently, get cash? Tell me your secrets, because I am sincerely clueless.

and I though dungeon items/drops where lame already….

darkehawke.1269:

This is the same story mode after the patch. I’ll give you what you say about story mode before the patch.
And the fact is, i was helping for the fun of it, the reduced reward is a bit of a bummer but oh well, but the addition of more champion mobs and more elites means this is not fun gameplay for people new to dungeons. being constantly stunned and being able to do nothing about it is not fun. A lot of time was spent replacing frustrated players because the difficulty was ramped up.

What i’m saying is less reward or more difficult. Pick one but dont pick them both!

I haven’t played Caudecus’ Manor story mode since the patch so I can’t comment on what the difficulty is now, but before the patch the story mode was pretty much a joke in terms of difficulty. In this one case I do think an increase in difficulty was warranted, though I can’t say if perhaps ANet overtuned it.

Pallar.5728:

darkehawke.1269:

This is the same story mode after the patch. I’ll give you what you say about story mode before the patch.
And the fact is, i was helping for the fun of it, the reduced reward is a bit of a bummer but oh well, but the addition of more champion mobs and more elites means this is not fun gameplay for people new to dungeons. being constantly stunned and being able to do nothing about it is not fun. A lot of time was spent replacing frustrated players because the difficulty was ramped up.

What i’m saying is less reward or more difficult. Pick one but dont pick them both!

I haven’t played Caudecus’ Manor story mode since the patch so I can’t comment on what the difficulty is now, but before the patch the story mode was pretty much a joke in terms of difficulty. In this one case I do think an increase in difficulty was warranted, though I can’t say if perhaps ANet overtuned it.

Maybe it was warranted, but its OTT now and to have the reward cut down is just ridiculous. A guy getting 1.8k xp for a dungeon run is just not right. no matter what your level is.

@Daboris, people were having fun because CoF was the only dungeon that was fun. It’s just a matter of how much you wanted to spend time farming it to get the equipment. People want rewards for doing stuff.

As it stands now no dungeon is WORTH the money, time or effort put into for any kind of mark. Personally i’ve ran guild grps that got CoF down o 12-14 and it was fun trying to break our good run, but i’ve also been in pug grps where they utterly failed.

So imo CoF was the only dungeon done right. It was worth it in money, marks and time. Now with the poor ways of making cash in the game as there already were it’s back to farming that ore.

All in all it just means that players that played more hours of the day will log in less and less and the casual players will never get the dungeon sets either.

So we are back to playing the game less and less and the only reasons to login will be to farm ore, pvp a little and wait for you having enough mats for that legendary or exotic upgrade you need.

I personally think these changes will result in a loss of players and a worse economy. I might sound like a semi hardcore player and yes i’m only missing CoF boots from being full exotic but I don’t want to see a loss of players in GW2.

For me personally i won’t be puggin anymore and will have to find a new way to farm for that legendary or just give up on GW2.

Personally i think they should model all the other dungeons after CoF path 2 so we ccan all have FUN in all the dungeons.

Pallar.5728:

darkehawke.1269:

This is the same story mode after the patch. I’ll give you what you say about story mode before the patch.
And the fact is, i was helping for the fun of it, the reduced reward is a bit of a bummer but oh well, but the addition of more champion mobs and more elites means this is not fun gameplay for people new to dungeons. being constantly stunned and being able to do nothing about it is not fun. A lot of time was spent replacing frustrated players because the difficulty was ramped up.

What i’m saying is less reward or more difficult. Pick one but dont pick them both!

I haven’t played Caudecus’ Manor story mode since the patch so I can’t comment on what the difficulty is now, but before the patch the story mode was pretty much a joke in terms of difficulty. In this one case I do think an increase in difficulty was warranted, though I can’t say if perhaps ANet overtuned it.

First successful time through CM in story mode we under-geared it with 3 players.

Yeah, in comparison, it wasn’t up to ‘par’. I think Anet’s idea of ‘par’ on a story mode dungeon is a little excessive though.

Pallar.5728:

I hated the way it was before the patch, with Caudecus’ Manor being a joke in difficulty and being unable to find an Arah, Sorrow’s Embrace, Twilight Arbor or Citadel of Flames group that wasn’t a speed clear farming group. Maybe now I’ll be able to get a group that actually plays through the dungeon.

No you will not because all the speed runners quit playing or moved to another farming spots.

For 1 hour and a half someone tried to form a group for CM Story mode.

Explorer Mode need more beef. I totally agree here.

But…

Story Mode, it’s kitten Story Mode ! It’s supposed to be casual ! Just remove the rewards from story mode after the first run, just like Missions in GW1, but still allow casual players to have their casual fun.

If dungeons aren’t intended to be a grind, why exactly does it take over 50 runs to get a full armor set..?

Really confusing me here.