Guild Wars 2

They’re not intended to be a grind, it’s just a happy coincidence

Zay.6357:

If dungeons aren’t intended to be a grind, why exactly does it take over 50 runs to get a full armor set..?

Really confusing me here.

The game designers do not want you to do the dungeon over and over again in rapid period of time. Perhaps they want you to get the full armor set in, say, over 3 months of play, playing for a few hours a week. The rapid repeating penalty is probably to discourage players from rapidly doing a dungeon over and over. However, punishment is never a good answer, and thus the backlash from the player base, who doesn’t want to be punished.

tl;dr they want you to do the dungeon casually once in a while, not 9 times per day over a few days.

This change is such a shame because I really wanted to run the dungeons I haven’t seen yet (all but AC and CoF) and now it will be literally impossible to even get a group due to the abysmal rewards (not even approaching enough for the effort required of sitting around for an hour LFG and then another hour or two to complete the dungeon).

Just increase the reward at the end of the impossible dungeons now and we will be fine. LOL so the idea is you want us to farm a set of skin for a whole year? NOT worth it. At least there are a lot of options to get a legendary weapon, in dungeons we have to do something so tedious and unrewarding and expect people to be grateful about it. All I hear from the fanboys are “i don’t do dungeons so boohoo to the people who do. Go play the game like I do coz I’m so much better than you.”

Kogasa Tatara.1409:

Zay.6357:

If dungeons aren’t intended to be a grind, why exactly does it take over 50 runs to get a full armor set..?

Really confusing me here.

The game designers do not want you to do the dungeon over and over again in rapid period of time. Perhaps they want you to get the full armor set in, say, over 3 months of play, playing for a few hours a week. The rapid repeating penalty is probably to discourage players from rapidly doing a dungeon over and over. However, punishment is never a good answer, and thus the backlash from the player base, who doesn’t want to be punished.

tl;dr they want you to do the dungeon casually once in a while, not 9 times per day over a few days.

But the average run takes about an hour. So, you have to spend an hour running the same path, every day, for more than a month.

That’s insanely grindy.

Kogasa Tatara.1409:

Zay.6357:

If dungeons aren’t intended to be a grind, why exactly does it take over 50 runs to get a full armor set..?

Really confusing me here.

The game designers do not want you to do the dungeon over and over again in rapid period of time. Perhaps they want you to get the full armor set in, say, over 3 months of play, playing for a few hours a week. The rapid repeating penalty is probably to discourage players from rapidly doing a dungeon over and over. However, punishment is never a good answer, and thus the backlash from the player base, who doesn’t want to be punished.

tl;dr they want you to do the dungeon casually once in a while, not 9 times per day over a few days.

a lockout timer does a better job than this “fix”

darkehawke.1269:

Kogasa Tatara.1409:

Zay.6357:

If dungeons aren’t intended to be a grind, why exactly does it take over 50 runs to get a full armor set..?

Really confusing me here.

The game designers do not want you to do the dungeon over and over again in rapid period of time. Perhaps they want you to get the full armor set in, say, over 3 months of play, playing for a few hours a week. The rapid repeating penalty is probably to discourage players from rapidly doing a dungeon over and over. However, punishment is never a good answer, and thus the backlash from the player base, who doesn’t want to be punished.

tl;dr they want you to do the dungeon casually once in a while, not 9 times per day over a few days.

a lockout timer does a better job than this “fix”

Yeah, probably, but I don’t work for ANet and it’s not like I have a portfolio piece with shipped works, else I’d totally apply for the job.

First of all this is FAIL.

Like the Magg part is hard all the way to blowing up the doorway to crystal, then it gets RET*RDED. Some people say “we did it” yes and i KNOW they are almost FULLY GEARED already, people like me who are doing this to GET GEARED cant simply do it, we tried in several groups ALL DAY! and we never managed to kill all mobs, we simply dont have the GEAR for it.

Anet when you do changes like this you cant “test it” with endgame geared toons you created, you have to be able to do it with Green/blue gear.

I did TA dungeons earlier with friends. We picked two completely different paths and both completed in over 40~45 minutes each. We got slapped with diminished reward on our second run.
I posted in bug report already and I hope Anet is taking this in consideration. Whatever you did with this patch was rushed and untested. Please admit your mistake and fix these ASAP before even more people drop this game.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Diminishing-Return-Is-Broken-For-Dungeon

RavenDeBlade.1670:

First of all this is FAIL.

Like the Magg part is hard all the way to blowing up the doorway to crystal, then it gets RET*RDED. Some people say “we did it” yes and i KNOW they are almost FULLY GEARED already, people like me who are doing this to GET GEARED cant simply do it, we tried in several groups ALL DAY! and we never managed to kill all mobs, we simply dont have the GEAR for it.

Anet when you do changes like this you cant “test it” with endgame geared toons you created, you have to be able to do it with Green/blue gear.

Anet doesn’t get that CoF was done right and that dungeons are a way to gear up. Atm they are a gold loss, timeloss and something they want you to once.

Sadly that’s not how 90% of the playerbase see it.

most of ppl who’r happy with the new dungeons probebly have there gear they want farmed already.

and why is it that armour pieces/ legendary gift require so many tokens/lodestones out of
dungeons who r not ment to be grinded.

and i agree they had to make the speedrundungeons(talking bout CoF) bit harder..
but now they are very hard to deal with, i tried it with some guildies.. and u basicly need exotic gear
so u can get tokens to buy exotic gear. not to mention repair cost.
so IMO its not rewarding or fun..
and if its the case that clearing a dungeon should be satisfying.. dont think so.
u need to do that painfull road over and over and over and over again untill u get something back for it
( o right dungeons are not ment to be grinded.. )
so i dont realy know if the dungeons are to hard or if the gear is to expensive..
but something is not right that makes it more annoying instead of fun..

i dont rly know where anet wna go with this but i hope they do.

p.s. thx for fixing the bugged skillpoints though.

A lot of people seem to be missing the point of these dungeons and the gear from them.

First off. I don’t agree with making the dungeons a worse PITA than they already are.
HOWEVER, the cost for the dungeon gear, is perfectly appropriate. Dungeon Gear is like legendary weapons. It’s supposed to show that you worked your butt off to get something that few people have!

If they lower the cost of the gear, it’s not going to be a point of pride anymore, because EVERYONE could get it!

The gear doesn’t give you stat’s you can’t get elsewhere, so no where are you required to run dungeons for that gear. If you want dungeon gear, it’s because of how it looks. Otherwise you just want gear you can get anywhere else. Wearing that gear is supposed to mean that you are the best of the best at that dungeon, and you put a TON of time and effort in.

With that aside: Dungeons should be difficult, but not impossible. Puzzles (not jumping ones) and things, could be a staple in a fun dungeon, and they would reduce the amount of time restriction needed to prevent farming. An example. There was a boss in a game I played that spewed out trivia questions about the lore of that game at intervals. People who failed the question, were “dazed” or at least that games version of it, for a period of time. It was interesting, and it added a twist. Puzzles would also prevent a grindfest feel, because it wouldn’t be all about slaughtering mobs with max DPS as quickly as possible to continue to the next run.

I see no reason tokens can’t be universal, to an extent. My thought on universal tokens.

You can only spend tokens on dungeons you have run in each different path X many times.
This would prevent people from farming the easy dungeons to get the hard dungeon gears, but allow some versatility in skin/stat choices. It would also encourage players to try all the different dungeons each way.

You could carry this even further by requiring you to have completed all prior dungeons at least once in explorer mode. This would also encourage exploration, and it’s not a ridiculous thing to ask for. I mean lets be honest, running each dungeon once in explorer mode wouldn’t be a big deal to someone who is farming dungeons for gear anyway.

For those griping about casual players never getting anything from dungeons. That’s kind of the definition of being a casual player. You have access to everything you need to be just as powerful and well geared without anything from a dungeon. Dungeon gear is supposed to take time and dedication, if you don’t have both of those available, there are other routes for necessities. Just play the dungeons to enjoy them.

explore mode cm got a big nerf too: 2 silver 17kxp

Mordikay.8476:

RavenDeBlade.1670:

First of all this is FAIL.

Like the Magg part is hard all the way to blowing up the doorway to crystal, then it gets RET*RDED. Some people say “we did it” yes and i KNOW they are almost FULLY GEARED already, people like me who are doing this to GET GEARED cant simply do it, we tried in several groups ALL DAY! and we never managed to kill all mobs, we simply dont have the GEAR for it.

Anet when you do changes like this you cant “test it” with endgame geared toons you created, you have to be able to do it with Green/blue gear.

Anet doesn’t get that CoF was done right and that dungeons are a way to gear up. Atm they are a gold loss, timeloss and something they want you to once.

Sadly that’s not how 90% of the playerbase see it.

Its not only a gold loss, its a time loss also now!

I’m mildly confused by this whole thing.

I kept reading “Explo mode is not for casual” Soooo what non hardcore peoples are supposed to do in pve? Live in Orr doing events and… Well… nothing else?

In a way this whole dungeon mess make me feel like i’m playing D3 again. Where i was also told “Sorry, Inferno mode is not for casual, you can stop playing now.” Which i did.

I’m not a casual player, i spend too much time on this. But i am not hardcore either: i don’t have a big powerful and organized guild; this time is behind me, never to come back. I don’t have that mindset anymore either.

I do enjoy a good challenge, a measure of difficulty and the feeling i am making progress. But like in D3 i feel like i have to play a certain way or begone, which i find incredibly irritating. Anet says they don’t want dungeon to feel like a grind, yet you get 20-30 tokens for gear that require more than 1200 for a whole set. That doesnt make any sense.

Anyway, i’m ranting.

tldr: Challenge is pointless without a nice carrot, and here, there’s only crumbs for climbing the Everest. And don’t tell us how to play this game, you did a great job with that aside from dungeons, why not there too?

I am baffled to why you have made these changes .. I am a casual player – work all day and play evenings… Now i have to “grind” even more for tokens it would of taken me a few weeks for a set of armour now it going to take months! I am going to get bored very quickly! I had to find some random players to do COF with today and out of 6 groups we only go to the end once. Players just abandoned the group 4 of those times! TEST IT next time please… Sssesh!

I would seriously like to know and understand exactly what the developers were thinking when they changed CM to the way it is now.

I would also like know what they were smoking – whether it was crack, weed, or either one laced with PCP, because I can say this – dungeons are a terrible, terrible thing now.

I can understand addressing the experience and the money at the end of it being too much – I completely get that.

What I don’t get is how the living HELL you do what you did to it.

- I pulled white armor, yes whites from the chests with one blue.
– The mobs have been exponentially buffed to the point of unplayable – there is so much knockback, AoE fearing, chain stunning, and one-shotting of players, that you literally cannot play and enjoy this utter failure.
– The experience and money has been nerfed to worthless – much like the testing that I guarantee didn’t take place before this went live. Honestly, if I just got done going through that C-R-A-P that I just ran for that little experience, loot and coin… What is the point of even going in there?

You had a knee-jerk reaction to solve a problem of people running this to death. You know what you could have done? Simple – just nerf experience and money at the end.

No, instead, you nerfed everything beneficial and increased the worst possible. There is no balance, there was no thought, there was no point in what you (Arenanet) did other than to make players disgruntled to the point of not running a dungeon for some kind of benefit, even if it was a little one.

I’m a little concerned that if running Story Mode after the first time is unrewarding that over time groups for Story Mode will become harder to find, effectively shutting newer players and alts out of the dungeon system. I’ve generally felt that since Exploration Mode offers tokens as an incentive to run them, that Story Mode should offer a different (lesser) incentive so that experienced players have more reasons to join new players to run them.

“JonPeters:
If you run the exact same chain twice in a row you will have your rewards cut. This means you can bounce back and forth between 2 different chains, even in the same dungeon without ever hitting this change”

This is incorrect.

I just done 2 TA Explorable’s in a row to test this. First run I done “Go up” path. Second run I done the "Forward"+"Up" and in both of those runs I received 5 Tokens at the last boss. First run gave me 20silver and 2nd run gave me 9silver. (Which didn’t help at all considering the amount of time it took us to get there and the amount of deaths we had. 9 silver didn’t even pay for one of my deaths lol..)

Am I doing something wrong here or did I read it wrongly lol. I’ve been doing TA Explorable all day so prior to this run, I done 2 other TA Explorable runs in the same 2 paths and got my full 15 Tokens in each and 26silver.

[B]So my runs for today looks like this:[/b]

Path: “Go Up”
Path: “Forward” & “Go Up”
Path: “Go Up”
Path: “Forward” & “Go Up”

So as you can see, I’m bouncing between them just like you said, but still I only got 5 tokens on the 3rd & 4th run. Is there a daily limit to the amount of tokens you get at the last boss? I’m very confused.

If this is a bug could I please get refunded for the 20 tokens I lost today :S

MacGuffin.2456:

I’m a little concerned that if running Story Mode after the first time is unrewarding that over time groups for Story Mode will become harder to find, effectively shutting newer players and alts out of the dungeon system. I’ve generally felt that since Exploration Mode offers tokens as an incentive to run them, that Story Mode should offer a different (lesser) incentive so that experienced players have more reasons to join new players to run them.

Yeah, this was already a problem. I did CoF story mode on Sunday and it took over an hour to find the group. Now that the dungeons don’t provide even close to enough reward to make it worth it (not to mention they don’t cover repair costs now), it’s going to be harder than ever to get a group together.

Putting in a massive disincentive to play dungeons at all is really not the way to make people play dungeons.

You just ruined dungeons… good job!

Fine with the exp/gold nerf… but you made dungeons in story mode way to hard!

zaxziakohl.5243:

For those griping about casual players never getting anything from dungeons. That’s kind of the definition of being a casual player. You have access to everything you need to be just as powerful and well geared without anything from a dungeon. Dungeon gear is supposed to take time and dedication, if you don’t have both of those available, there are other routes for necessities. Just play the dungeons to enjoy them.

like what tons of karma? how many times u have to do the same events till u finally get a set.
or tons of gold? most gold i got was from mapcompletions and best i could buy was full lvl 80 rare set + 3 rare weps with there upgrades. well there’s also gemz i guess

I am now both very disappointed and angry!

Anet seem to be determined to loose their player base. This change has really riled me as they are so inconsistent & contradictory with their game design!

“we don’t want you to farm”

Contradiction – You must farm dungeons 50+ times for gear.
Contradiction – You must grind mobs for mats.
Contradiction – You must farm Orr dynamic events (which is impossible as a Mesmer as you have to re-spec to even tag the mobs!)
Contradiction – Map completion is often impossible due to the number of bugged skill points still in the game.
Contradiction – This is a casual friendly game, no sub so no need to pro-long the gear grind.
Contradiction – End game gear should be easy to obtain, yet I need to farm gold to be able to buy EXOTIC gear or farm dungeons to be able to join my friends who are already geared and now on the harder content.

The dungeon design was previously broken, you have stated yourselves that it hasn’t been fully tested by your teams yet you want us to sink our gold, gold we would have spent on WVW with our guild building community.

You should have; to meet your design brief – made each dungeon be run a few times to receive 1 item. Then make it really difficult. You are currently punishing the client for your own design failure -

‘Like apple when they announced the iphone4 and claimed clients were holding it wrong!’

This may well be the final straw for this game, I was happy farming and feeling like I was achieving something (all-be-it slowly) but now I have nearly no incentive to login to a game I spent money on and was building friends in. More worrying still, I know a lot of my guild who talk on Teamspeak (to protect themselves) are feeling the same way.

P.S. Side note, I cannot log into your forums from an iPhone, maybe I’m holding it wrong.

Honest question here: Do Anet feel that Ca 70 runs for full dungeon gear as the rewards are now, is a good idea?

I’ve yet to run into the drastically reduced results as of yet, in four consecutive CM runs.

We went: Seraph, Butler, Asura, Seraph
Seraph gave us full rewards
Butler gave us full token rewards, but half XP (89k for 170k or so)
Asura gave us full rewards
Seraph gave us full rewards, but only 5 tokens from the endboss

Aside from a few routes, I think dungeons are alright. Challenging but not overwhelming, though some mobs have far too much health. My only complaint is that I have hundreds of tokens I will simply never use. I’ve helped my friend get his CM vanity set, and I’m sitting on 400 of the tokens, but neither the look nor stats appeal to my class. They’re just going to sit there rotting in my bank.

If I could transmute them in the mystic forge into tokens for just about any other dungeon – even at a 50% loss – I would leap at the chance.

Mr. Peters,

I would love it you would post the metrics you guys have collected on which dungeons were run the most frequently prior to making these adjustements.

I think we all know which dungeons and which paths of those dungeons were run the most though don’t we? I think you guys (the devs) should sit down and have a longer discussion amongst yourselves on WHY players chose those dungeons. After you have a few possible answers ginned up think about why they avoid other dungeons.

You’re bound and determined to ignore player feedback so I hope that you guys can work it out internally and make the appropriate corrections.

1) Run the same exact chain over twice in a row
2) Complete multiple dungeons in 30 minutes or less each.

Both of these are a bad idea.

Offering variety is great but requiring people to play the way you want them to play is bad. Let people play what they want to play. If they are repeating a particular area over and over because the time/reward ratio is better then fix it.

Don’t punish people for being skilled and finishing something faster than you wanted them to. Forcing people to wait between dungeons is not fun.

How about this. First, either allow people to exchange tokens for other dungeons or just use one kind of token for all of them. Why? so you don’t punish people for choosing variety. Remember that people will do what you reward them for. Not necessarily what you might have hoped they would do but what you are actually rewarding them for. So, in the case of having different tokens you actually reward people for concentrating on one dungeon and then you get upset when they repeat it too much.

Second, instead of punishing people for repeating a dungeon. Why not reward them for choosing a variety? How about a weekly achievement in which at least 5 different dungeons need to be done.

Don’t punish people for playing the way they want to play.

darkehawke.1269:

Kogasa Tatara.1409:

Zay.6357:

If dungeons aren’t intended to be a grind, why exactly does it take over 50 runs to get a full armor set..?

Really confusing me here.

The game designers do not want you to do the dungeon over and over again in rapid period of time. Perhaps they want you to get the full armor set in, say, over 3 months of play, playing for a few hours a week. The rapid repeating penalty is probably to discourage players from rapidly doing a dungeon over and over. However, punishment is never a good answer, and thus the backlash from the player base, who doesn’t want to be punished.

tl;dr they want you to do the dungeon casually once in a while, not 9 times per day over a few days.

a lockout timer does a better job than this “fix”

No Please no lockout timers! Id rather be able to do a dungeon over and over with little reward when I want to, vs wait for a kitten week with nothing to do.

Guess im done with running dungeons

So today i ran CM Exp mode in 2 different paths

Path 2 took me like 3+ hours and got 19 silver and 133k exp as reward (was my first time)

Edit: im lvl 80
then after a couple of hours decided to do

Path 3 took me around 2+ hours and got 6 silver and 44k exp (was my first time as well)

so my question is ur system is bugged cuz u said the reward would only be diminished if you run the same chain 2 times (which i didnt) so im guessing you need to run 2 different dungeons so the exp wont be dimished? and then u can alternate beetween the 2 of em

Will keep researching and editing my post as i find more info.

Also want to say that i did HoW story mode in the morning took me around 2 hours and i got 16s and 110k exp (my first time, and was before doing CM Exp mode)

Hey Jon, can you do us a favor and shoot players an email when you guys come to your senses and make dungeons fun and rewarding for anybody other than a fraction of a percentage of insane masochists? Might be worth popping back in and checking this game out again when that happens, so a heads up would be good.

Acreedo.4398:

Guess im done with running dungeons

Yep, this is probably what most people are going to decide. Very few people will care about the dungeon gear enough to spend tons of gold running them (since it now costs money to run a given dungeon because of the terrible rewards).

Vargs.6234:

Hey Jon, can you do us a favor and shoot players an email when you guys come to your senses and make dungeons fun and rewarding for anybody other than a fraction of a percentage of insane masochists? Might be worth popping back in and checking this game out again when that happens, so a heads up would be good.

Agreed, I want to add my name to this list for Notifying Us When Dungeons Will Be Fixed To Not Be Worthless.

My suggestions for how to fix it:

1) Get rid of ALL diminishing returns systems (including the HORRIBLE anti-fun anti-farming system).

2) Increase rewards for dungeons to be on par with the time and cost to complete them (since they aren’t even close right now).

I’m fine with dungeons being harder (including CoF #2) but the rewards actually need to be halfway decent for it to be worth spending an hour or two (plus another hour or more getting a group) doing them. As of now they aren’t, and that just means that people will ignore the dungeon content altogether.

“kitten” exp
“kitten” rewards
“kitten” grindy feeling
“kitten” overtuned monsters in defense portions
“kitten” players claiming it’s better now

no fun, no point

You’d best start believing in ghost dungeons, you’re gonna be in one if you enter the instances!

so, now dungeons are all but worth doing them. ty for telling us

In order to get people to try different chains you need to have a MORE universal token system with payoffs being equal for time spent in the balancing of the dungeon paths.

There fixed.

Basically, all I’ve seen is people getting angry because other people were getting more for their time and effort in completing dungeons. This jealousy lead to these players bashing dungeons people were grinding because these players are so anti-grind that they intend to ruin it for everyone else. I mean, seriously. Who complains that other people are doing better simply because they took the time to grind?

I understand GW2 is very anti-grind, but you’re getting to a point where you’re making this game impossible. I do NOT support the changes you have made to the dungeons. They’re way too hard, they give little back, and there’s no point in playing them more than once. Just because you hate grinding doesn’t mean you have to ruin it for players who prefer it. My entire guild and I are livid with the fact that dungeons are now impossibly hard, make you spend money instead of gaining money, and now you can only complete them twice. This makes dungeons completely and utterly pointless.

It all boils down to players being jealous of other players surpassing them by doing something different then them. ‘Oh, that player got to 80 grinding a dungeon. Even though I had that choice, I’m going to whine about how hard I worked to get to 80 and they didn’t.’ It’s simple prejudice at its best.

But dungeons are important to MMO’s, and you’ve made yours pointless. Absolutely pointless. I don’t mind making dungeons harder, but making it so you get no loot, no money, and no experience and you can only play it twice makes it completely pointless to do. If you hate grinding, don’t do it. Don’t ruin it for other players, and don’t make your game have worthless dungeons.

Dear Anet,
I’m guessing you want a big thank you from the community, now that you have fixed these issues.

Allow me to give a big thanks from all the casual players, now we don’t have to bother with trying dungeons at all, we can be happy farming the zones, and doing our solo missions getting level 30 blues until our characters are finished gearing up to a full set of level 30 blues and a couple level 20 greens at level 80.

Oh, and I leave you with this enigma of a question; are the content designers completely re-t-arded?
Please take offense, because we do, when you try to pull this off and passing it on as changes for the better.

Sincerely,
All casual gamers

McSneaky.9037:

Not only did they nerf the rewards into making it a waste of time to replay story mode, but they also increased the difficulty.

cm story has extra champions, snipers, conditons, doggies upgraded to silver and do fear, and the whoppping reward: 1 silver 8kxp

Congrats, you can now travel to ONE Waypoint(In your same zone), hope it was worth your time :oP

Suddle D.9412:

McSneaky.9037:

Not only did they nerf the rewards into making it a waste of time to replay story mode, but they also increased the difficulty.

cm story has extra champions, snipers, conditons, doggies upgraded to silver and do fear, and the whoppping reward: 1 silver 8kxp

Congrats, you can now travel to ONE Waypoint, hope it was worth your time :oP

I wanna know what waypoints you’re going to at 80 that are only 1 silver. Traveling to a waypoint that you’re standing on costs more than that.

If there is going to be a 30 minute limit on how fast we can do dungeons, can you please make them take at least 30 minutes? Because it’s pretty dumb if we clear a path in 20 and then have to wait 10 mins to get standard rewards. It totally ruins the point of actually being good and clearing dungeons fast too.

My suggestion is to remove the time limit and make the dungeons hard/long enough so that they take a reasonable amount of time, which is indeed the initial problem.

I wish to also address the players who are pleased with Anet’s choice.

They seem to feel that nerfing the rewards from dungeons is a good thing. That it is an exploit. I would disagree.

Running dungeons should be harder than it was, they should also reward the players, maybe not in cash but in tokens. If Anet wish to move in the direction they are e.g a wow direction with dungeons, I’m ok with that, but they must not only take part of the dungeon grind system, they should take most of it.

After all GW2 does have a tank and healer in their holy trinity, it just so happens that it’s the same character (Guardian).

Vargs.6234:

Suddle D.9412:

McSneaky.9037:

Not only did they nerf the rewards into making it a waste of time to replay story mode, but they also increased the difficulty.

cm story has extra champions, snipers, conditons, doggies upgraded to silver and do fear, and the whoppping reward: 1 silver 8kxp

Congrats, you can now travel to ONE Waypoint, hope it was worth your time :oP

I wanna know what waypoints you’re going to at 80 that are only 1 silver. Traveling to a waypoint that you’re standing on costs more than that.

Yeah I did an edit to add “in your own zone” sine most WP’s cost more than this….and yes even ones you are standing next to…

This patch was rushed and untested.

The Fear Chain from the dogs at CM SM, just so happens to be one of the many aspects of how rushed and unprofessional this patch is.

I died in that fear chain, not from a challange, just beacuse of some developer not testing the inevitable fear chain that crushed my team and me.

Rushing things for a problem with the game doesnt solve the fun that was itented in the first place, if you want to punish your player database, because they had fun and felt rewarded beacuse of a dungeon, then something will be wrong with your ability to maintain that audiance.

this patch reminds me of diablo 3 and why it failed and i why i quit that game.

i hope you can attend your customers properly, and not make anet a blizzard like company.

i like a challange in a game, but not some unchallanged death to my tolls of repair lists

thank you.

This patch was rushed and untested.

The Fear Chain from the dogs at CM SM, just so happens to be one of the many aspects of how rushed and unprofessional this patch is.

I died in that fear chain, not from a challange, just beacuse of some developer not testing the inevitable fear chain that crushed my team and me.

Rushing things for a problem with the game doesnt solve the fun that was itented in the first place, if you want to punish your player database, because they had fun and felt rewarded beacuse of a dungeon, then something will be wrong with your ability to maintain that audiance.

this patch reminds me of diablo 3 and why it failed and i why i quit that game.

i hope you can attend your customers properly, and not make anet a blizzard like company.

i like a challange in a game, but not some unchallanged death to my tolls of repair lists

thank you.

I actually like the challenge this patch provided for CoF, but Anet needs to realize that 60% of their players are casual players to semi hardcore and another 20% are ones who came from Blizzard’s Diablo 3 which screwed them over with broken mechanics and grind fests…. Who will raise arms and abandon your game for the increased grind that you promised that you will never do to them.

This patch got me to post on a forum for the first time in years. I’m not going to decry this as the worst thing in the history of games, claim I’ll never do a dungeon again, threaten to never play again, or other hyperbolic reactions. The changes so far haven’t outweighed the enjoyment I get from the game. Instead I’m going to explain what I dislike about the system calmly and rationally. CM was too easy. Let’s be honest. I’m actually happy that you made it a challenge. However, reducing the rewards as well has created a situation where I see no benefit to playing it. In fact I often see myself paying to play the dungeon. If this was the intended result, fine, you did what you set out to do. However it does make me wary of your design philosophy. I was under the impression that “No grind” meant that content would be fairly accessible and you could reasonably achieve rewards at a steady rate just by playing. Instead I’m finding that it means that the dev team will actively shut down any attempts to gain more than a piddling amount of any item/token/material/gold by actively limiting rewards. Forcing me to stop doing an activity I enjoy and move to another in order to progress does not make for an enjoyable experience. Frankly it makes me worried for the longevity of this game as a whole. I enjoyed GW1 and I have faith in your ability to correct mistakes given time. I just hope that the process of balancing difficulty to reward properly does not take longer than my patience can withstand.

First, we had the people who bought karma,cultural and faction armor really cheap. They’ve changed it. Now we have people who have full dungeon sets. They’ve changed it. At the first sight of “too many” players having legendary weapons, they will change it. When too many people become commanders, they will change it. And Those of us who were taking our time to play the game, won’t have the same rewards, in fact, we are being punished for not rushing and getting everything done in the first 2 weeks. Now we are divided in 2 player bases. The ones who got 80 full before the “nerfs” and the ones who are now bleeding their eyes out to get to the same pedestal. Some players now have a major advantage over others. Marvelous, really.

GummyGator.2980:

This patch got me to post on a forum for the first time in years. I’m not going to decry this as the worst thing in the history of games, claim I’ll never do a dungeon again, threaten to never play again, or other hyperbolic reactions. The changes so far haven’t outweighed the enjoyment I get from the game. Instead I’m going to explain what I dislike about the system calmly and rationally. CM was too easy. Let’s be honest. I’m actually happy that you made it a challenge. However, reducing the rewards as well has created a situation where I see no benefit to playing it. In fact I often see myself paying to play the dungeon. If this was the intended result, fine, you did what you set out to do. However it does make me wary of your design philosophy. I was under the impression that “No grind” meant that content would be fairly accessible and you could reasonably achieve rewards at a steady rate just by playing. Instead I’m finding that it means that the dev team will actively shut down any attempts to gain more than a piddling amount of any item/token/material/gold by actively limiting rewards. Forcing me to stop doing an activity I enjoy and move to another in order to progress does not make for an enjoyable experience. Frankly it makes me worried for the longevity of this game as a whole. I enjoyed GW1 and I have faith in your ability to correct mistakes given time. I just hope that the process of balancing difficulty to reward properly does not take longer than my patience can withstand.

Stigma.7869:

I actually like the challenge this patch provided for CoF, but Anet needs to realize that 60-70% of their players are casual players to semi hardcore. Who will raise arms and abandon your game for the increased grind that you promised that you will never do to them.

I bought this game after seeing the trailer that said they didn’t want their players to grind.
They said it would be different and have a fun easy feeling to the game.
It would be different from the same old things in other MMOs.
I don’t have the pleasure of being able to be online all day like those hardcore players.
Making dungeons more of a grind is a horrible horrible thing to do and it’s not going to end well at all.
I don’t mind the buff for challenging at all.
I LOVE difficult dungeons, but when we have to put in hours of hard work just to LOSE MONEY, it’s no longer fun at all.
Who the heck wants to go into a dungeon and spend more on repairing than what you get as the reward?!
How stupid is that?
This is the first game (VERY FIRST) that i have ever seen that has done this.
Go into a dungeon, spend 2-6 silver repairing armor.
Get one silver as reward.
Profit? None at all.
Wow.

JonPeters.5630:

We also reduced the rewards of completing story mode, once you have already completed it, because the rewards for story mode were never intended to be a high as they were.

Right now we are working hard to make sure there are not any ways for players to circumvent the normal rewards in the game and then we will be able to look at the actual rewards and make sure they require a reasonable amount of investment.

Dungeons are meant to be difficult and we will continue to update them to try and reach a point where the time invested to XP/Gold/Tokens is similar for each dungeon. Some right now are just too easy to complete while others may be too hard. Moving forward we will try and post more clear change notes for those dungeons we do fix.

Thanks for your feedback, we really appreciate your desire to help us keep improving on the game.

Jon

Thank you very much jon for this post, it makes me feel like someone is actually reading our posts and complains, i really have high hopes in this game and are happy about some feedback from you.

This is the first MMO where i experience the developers to make a really good job and trying hard to get it better FOR REAL!

But

1. the thing you said about nerv the rewards as soon as you completed a dungeon, i hope this is only when the team really made it till the whole end and it wont get nerved when the team gave up in the middle of it!

2. Why already nerfing the reward after completing it once?
What about exp-mode in the dungeons, there are 3 paths, so it must be a full reward for each of them at least once!

3. Why making all dungeons same difficult? Shouldnt the first dungeon for lvl 30+ be a bit easier as the onces who come later? Or let me ask the other way around, the ones who come after a bit harder?

4. I really like that the dungeons are hard, but im dissappointed about the rewards they give even now are already poor! Couse they are usually for other proffessions anyway, make some detection of proffession or at least allow to choose what you want / need!

5. The highest problem is, that the reward for completing the dungeon doesnt allways cover the repair cost and you might end up even in minus!
There is my suggestion how to solve this:
Make a counter for each of the players how often they repaired in the instance, how often they tried to heal the teammates, how much damage did they do to the mobs and based on those numbers, calculate the amount of money they get at the end!

Ty