Guild Wars 2

The lessened rewards make me to never want to help someone to do story mode again. Specially for dungeons like Crucible of Eternity and Ascalon catacombs.

So what’s current state of it ? I’ve seen little update this morning, but i assume there’s still no reason to log since patchnotes seemed rather cosmetic, and dungs. stay as they were – broken ?

Still a lot of rage on the forums… I’ll say this, it may be the majority of players who are still playin that feel abet messed up in doing what they did. It might also be the minority. However, in any situation it was the vocal minority that was asking for them to modIfy the mode in the direction it was modified in. Now they have no choice but to suffer the backlash.

Why does this even suppose you, honestly? Many MMOs do the same thing when they start getting the minority hat rushed to top level jumping up and down because it’s to eats for lower levels to level/get geared out. This is how People are….

Well rage is caused by situation where all fun/rewardings things [which, not really lying was only CoF near the endgame] has been took away for “opportunity” of endless ultra hard grind. With gear i had after reaching 80, amount of gold i’ve hit with 80 i basically have no reason to even log in game since only dungeon i could benefit off and not waste whole day was CoF idd. That’s where is hate from – casuall gaming has been killed.

As a casual player now (used to be somewhat hardcore back in the day) You effectively killed my desire to ever try dungeons in GW2 Anet. What’s the point of them?
The difficulty is stupid hard, the reward for the time put into them is laughable. The only thing left in GW2 that still holds my interest is WvW now, but because of the fact that gear gets broken from being killed in WvW sooner or later i’ll go broke and there will be nothing left.

I agree that no one should be all gear-up in a week, I like when we do things often and get some other rewards here and there while you are working on you full armor and weapon set.

I do not understand that we have so much need of golds while at the same time no real way of making profits from Dungeons, TP or even farming mobs, events.

At the end of the day, I only want to do WvW for the fun of it. The rest is just a big mess right now. My Tier 3 needs 120+ golds, no idea where and how I’ll get that much unless they change how the game works.

Oh no they nerfed the easy mode dungeon path, come on who didnt see this coming after the first time they ran it

defi.4127:

It’s cute that you believe that, it really is. Over 2 million sold and you count the most vocal complainers as majority. Many people already stopped after level 80, yet there are still queues to WvW and I enter LA queue first before server. Sure, some players will stop, but most probably not the majority.

Actually, he’s quite right with the guess of the 95%.
Like I already stated, google “GW2 dungeon update” and have the search tool be in the past week and go read the things that have been posted.
On many many gw2 fansites, Massively.com, Pcgamer.com, etc, people are really upset with the patch and are already telling others not to buy the game and to just hold off until things are better.

I don’t even mind the difficulty fix (though it sounds like it was a SUPER lazy and completely untested fix) to CoF #2. What I am ticked about is the fact that dungeons were already barely worth doing and now they give you less than the cost of a single waypoint use at level 80. That is unacceptable.

ANet, if your goal is to make people never run any dungeons again because the rewards are so pathetically bad, you’ve succeeded.

Logged in, went alt tabbed to troll here, bored, tab back in, inside DR whole time, about 45 mins, no chat except npcs and 2 diff gold spammers once each. And their prices have dropped literally over night…

defi.4127:

It’s cute that you believe that, it really is. Over 2 million sold and you count the most vocal complainers as majority. Many people already stopped after level 80, yet there are still queues to WvW and I enter LA queue first before server. Sure, some players will stop, but most probably not the majority.

I highly disagree, they attacked casual gamer’s who are the majority. If it were an attack on hardcore gamer’s this would be relevant. This game has a huge draw to casual gamer’s and now they are pushing them away.

DanZero.4956:

I agree that no one should be all gear-up in a week, I like when we do things often and get some other rewards here and there while you are working on you full armor and weapon set.

I do not understand that we have so much need of golds while at the same time no real way of making profits from Dungeons, TP or even farming mobs, events.

At the end of the day, I only want to do WvW for the fun of it. The rest is just a big mess right now. My Tier 3 needs 120+ golds, no idea where and how I’ll get that much unless they change how the game works.

I don’t know, do you know how ridiculously easy it was to skill up trade skills? If you didn’t want to buy fine material on the TP it was typically very mild level of farming to get to 400. You can then go across the high level zones and farm the resources quite easily. I just made an exotic bow from basically logging in every few hours in Frostgorge, gathering some resources and doing Jormag.

I could quite easily farm up the resources i need for my exotic armour, or I could pretty much just buy the components that will likely take the longest time to acquire, ie the ecto and get the money to pay for that from stuff I have no problems acquiring in vast quantities, like ore, wood and various T6 fine resources.

I think getting gear is pretty straight forward outside of dungeons. If people want to rush through it, then let them rush through it. Anyone trying to speed through the game is going to be long gone, one guy we know who speeds through MMOs and has no longevity is already gone from GW2.

You should never inflict changes on the majority based on how the minority operate.

I like challenges but don’t like activities that are not fun. GW2 dungeons are not fun and I just wont be doing them other than forcing my way through each one once to have a look at it.

I like WvW so I have something to occupy my time with besides doing events, farming and crafting and seeing the world. But, if I run out of fun things to do then the game goes back on the shelf.

People are going to get the gear they desperately want, if activities are not fun then they will stop doing them once they have what they need, if they run out of fun things to do then the game is done for them. I would hate if Anet were making decisions to try and slow people down, it doesn’t work and is a poor way to keep people interested.

If the experience was fun I wouldn’t care if there was no reward. Given how they designed characters and what they can deal with, the mechanics for dungeons are not fun to me and not fun to a lot of people I know in our guild and we have come from many MMOs, raided the hardest content there was.

To me dungeons feel like console type games, which lack substance and have twitchy gameplay mechanics as the only real challenge level, because they are so limited in scope and scale. GW2 with all it’s advances should have come up with something better imo.

Hate to say this but I have to coldly disagree. I can easily ‘beat’ that with spawning out of an area, coming back and re adding people to the party, and taking our time on the last boss of the run, and use 5 guardians and beat everything out there.
What I’m saying, Guardians are gonna rock dungeons all day right now and you can only make things harder and more experienced by doing something such as making the dungeons less farmable, yet still usable by all classes.
5 warriors, 5 elementalist, or 5 engineers cant do dungeons worth a flip. It’s almost impossible, however guardians work!
No matter what I can do, a guardian beats it. I love them for a lot of reasons, but having the ability to faceroll a dungeon and shrug damage only works on a guardian, id like to see something more of a challenge without defeating 5 man all one class teams.

No fun it deleted my reply.

Okay well point, guardians are gonna rock dungeons all day until you fix them and you all cant do it fast enough I guess, just fix the exploits and make the tokens worth the reward, or make drops worth it?
I can run a dungeon NO magic find+ and never get a blue ,why do I require magic+ gear to get a decent reward for a dungeon?

Vim.7318:

DanZero.4956:

I agree that no one should be all gear-up in a week, I like when we do things often and get some other rewards here and there while you are working on you full armor and weapon set.

I do not understand that we have so much need of golds while at the same time no real way of making profits from Dungeons, TP or even farming mobs, events.

At the end of the day, I only want to do WvW for the fun of it. The rest is just a big mess right now. My Tier 3 needs 120+ golds, no idea where and how I’ll get that much unless they change how the game works.

I don’t know, do you know how ridiculously easy it was to skill up trade skills? If you didn’t want to buy fine material on the TP it was typically very mild level of farming to get to 400. You can then go across the high level zones and farm the resources quite easily. I just made an exotic bow from basically logging in every few hours in Frostgorge, gathering some resources and doing Jormag.

I could quite easily farm up the resources i need for my exotic armour, or I could pretty much just buy the components that will likely take the longest time to acquire, ie the ecto and get the money to pay for that from stuff I have no problems acquiring in vast quantities, like ore, wood and various T6 fine resources.

I think getting gear is pretty straight forward outside of dungeons. If people want to rush through it, then let them rush through it. Anyone trying to speed through the game is going to be long gone, one guy we know who speeds through MMOs and has no longevity is already gone from GW2.

You should never inflict changes on the majority based on how the minority operate.

I like challenges but don’t like activities that are not fun. GW2 dungeons are not fun and I just wont be doing them other than forcing my way through each one once to have a look at it.

I like WvW so I have something to occupy my time with besides doing events, farming and crafting and seeing the world. But, if I run out of fun things to do then the game goes back on the shelf.

People are going to get the gear they desperately want, if activities are not fun then they will stop doing them once they have what they need, if they run out of fun things to do then the game is done for them. I would hate if Anet were making decisions to try and slow people down, it doesn’t work and is a poor way to keep people interested.

If the experience was fun I wouldn’t care if there was no reward. Given how they designed characters and what they can deal with, the mechanics for dungeons are not fun to me and not fun to a lot of people I know in our guild and we have come from many MMOs, raided the hardest content there was.

To me dungeons feel like console type games, which lack substance and have twitchy gameplay mechanics as the only real challenge level, because they are so limited in scope and scale. GW2 with all it’s advances should have come up with something better imo.

Thanks for the intelligent reply.
I’ll see what I can do with my trade skills, but I’m sure if we start using them to get gold, they will nerf it lol.

Inflicting changes based on the minority,
I mean I’m sure it was not 100% of people who were running CM over and over for money and the action they took for it was way overkill.

Anyways, I’ll stick to WvW and I’m not gonna buy a single gem until I feel the game is getting back on track.

I reformed a party, and instantly the diminishing returns disappeared. Should I do a bug report?

It honestly seems like their goal with this constant addition of diminishing returns to every part of the game is simply to ensure that none of us ever have any fun playing.

ANet: What!? You want to have fun? Quick, guys, this guy is trying to have fun in the game, we need to hotpatch the rewards into nothingness!

If that’s the goal, bangup job guys. Really brilliant. Otherwise, it’s a huge giant pile of epic failure.

@kenral:
you better or else they will ban you for exploits.

@danzero:
yea wvw is the only fun thing to do in the game anymore. trade skills are only worth money while the market thinks they are worth money. IE jewelcrafters make tons of money right now, until the supply becomes too big due to everyone and their mother becoming a JC. Same will happen for all the trade skills eventually until they all become generally pointless for money making.

people running CM story were NOT the minority of the level 80 players, most were either doing that or CoF runs exclusively once they hit 80, I know I did. These same people were then seeding that money back into the economy by purchasing exotic gear from level 400 crafters, thus giving the crafters ways to make more exotics, it really was a fine system. Just because people could grind for 10 hours in a day and get a piece of gear doesn’t mean the system is flawed. That took the person 10 hours! For one piece of gear! That means 60 hours minimum to get each piece of armor, another ~20 to get the money for runes (obviously depends on the rune), and then another 60-80 hours to get the gold to get legendary weapons. Obvi these are just guesstimates about the required amount of time. However you can see that this is a pretty fair amount of time that was needed to farm before this patch. Now multiply these values by an order of 10? Turns that 10 hours into 100 to get a single piece of armor, than 60hours in 600.

This move was made as an artificial inflation to the amount of end-game content without actually having to add anything new to the game. It is poor design, and kitteny development. Instead of removing the one thing players were having fun doing, they should have worked to ADD more interesting and compelling reasons to play the game once a player enters the End-Game.

It is still very easy Anet. It’s still childplay. It would be awesome if the difficulty, armor repair cost increase. Oh yes did I forget to mention reduce to rewards so elite skilled players appreciate the rewards more.

Hello,

I would like to address the other mechanism implemented in the recent update; the 30 minute threshold for diminishing return. I felt that it was necessary to make a separate post because the primary post turned into an incoherent mess, and anything worth reading is buried waist deep.

My group does dungeon runs for ~3 hours every night. We have people that work standard hours (8-5), so our time is limited and we have to be very efficient. Prior to the patch, we were able to squeeze in about 6-7 dungeons in a little over 3 hours. However, we ran into several issues during yesterday’s run.

Run 1- Honor of the Waves, Path 1- We got to the boss, and found that the end room is glitched (no floor, boss missing). We were unable to continue, and had trouble resetting the dungeon to run the path again to confirm the bug/try a different path. We move to Twilight Arbor.

Run 2- Twilight Arbor, Up- No issues with the dungeon. Cleared in ~30 minutes (basing timing on food buff), probably just under. Everyone got max reward except for one person, who got 19.5s (weird number). Just to clarify, none of us has completed a dungeon on that day (09/18).

Run 3- Twilight Arbor, Forward Up- No issues with the dungeon. Cleared in ~30 minute again, probably over this time as this route is just a bit longer with the mesmer boss (this path is definitely longer than the previous. I have no doubt about that). Everyone got diminished rewards (13s), and the person that got 19.5s last time, got 6s this time.

Run 4- Honor of the Waves, Path 1- After waiting 20 minutes because we are paranoid of the 30 minute threshold, we tried again to see if it’s a one time glitch. We got to boss, glitch again. No floor and no boss.

Run 5- Honor of the Waves, Path 3- We were able to reset the dungeon correctly by breaking pt, log off, log on alt, then log on main. Ran this dungeon in about 38-40 minutes. Everyone got full reward.

First of all, as the two parts of twilight arbor showed, we are being punished for being able to clear it in a respectable amount of time. I also think it’s safe to say that TA does not contain any exploit, and we are able to push for under 30 minute marks because we’ve done it enough to take high risk chances to clear faster. Unfortunately, we cleared too quickly, and received diminishing returns as a result. This also had an adverse effect in making us only able to clear 5 dungeons (we cleared 3, but were able to run through 5 paths) instead of the usual 7, due to having to either slow down or completely go afk to meet the threshold requirement. It is a major lose-lose for us at the moment.

Secondly, if the concern is having a fail-safe in place against future exploits, I believe 30 minutes is way too high. Clearing a dungeon in under 30 is not difficult once you analyze it and improve. We can clear at least 1-2 paths under 30 minutes for various dungeons, and there are two that we can push close to or under 25 minutes right now. If a threshold is to be implemented, it should be 20 minutes. I think it’s fairly safe to say if a dungeon is done under 20, it just needs to be harder or there is an exploit in play

If the threshold is (god forbid) here to stay, then I would request for a more clear description of how the penalty works.

-When does the timer start? Upon first person entering? Upon entire team entering? Upon first mob attacked, killed, etc? This could be clarified.

-If we clear dungeon 1 in under 30, are we punished for that dungeon, or for the next dungeon? I ask because we cleared TA Up in under 30, and was not punished, but was punished on the next one.

-I would like to see exact calculations for penalties implemented by both speed clearing and repeat clearing. This will help players plan out their dungeon run schedule. It is possible for us to just try to figure it out, but I don’t think it would hurt to have the exact rules presented to us.

Of course, ideally, I want to see this removed, and I hope it will be removed. I would think the devs would like to see the limit that their dungeon runs can be pushed, and add difficulty to it as the game matures. I strongly disagree with punishing players for being efficient with what they do. If devs feel that 30 minutes clear of a path is too fast, then please make it more difficult instead (and I hope it’s not a larger HP pool just to up the time to kill, or just more mobs for critical mass to force separation pulls). At the very least, a more difficult dungeon is something the player can overcome. We can’t overcome a penalty mechanism. We can only try to avoid it.

I would like to stress one last time: Time threshold in this manner is completely detrimental to the game.

Thank you,
TJL

datheway.8364:

It is still very easy Anet. It’s still childplay. It would be awesome if the difficulty, armor repair cost increase. Oh yes did I forget to mention reduce to rewards so elite skilled players appreciate the rewards more.

By ‘elite skill’ do you mean players who were able to get exotic tier gear before the nerfs to gold earning? There isn’t really anything that can be called ‘elite skill’ within the game since there are no roles for players to fill. ‘Elite Skill’ can be chalked up to using ctrl+T and T on top of using Evade when the game telegraphs it to you.

Essentially you are asking them to make the players who rushed to 80 before ANet nerfed anything better than they already are, and to have more of an advantage than they already did. Fail.

datheway.8364:

It is still very easy Anet. It’s still childplay. It would be awesome if the difficulty, armor repair cost increase. Oh yes did I forget to mention reduce to rewards so elite skilled players appreciate the rewards more.

Agreed, the 9s repair cost is too low at level 80. It should be at least 90s-1g per piece. The reward also should be 2 copper as 2 silver is a FORTUNE! We don’t want people inflating the economy by bringing 2 whole silver in every time they complete a dungeon, that’s just too much.

Clearly this update is not working as intended.
As you say, more details are needed.
Please Anet, give us more details like you used to. What happened to your transparency?
Why is efficiency being punished? I get the forced rotation, but I didn’t buy a game to stare at a clock and make sure another 3 or 4 minutes pass before playing the game.

Nah cant take a chance.

Anyways enough mindless spam…..I hope things get fixed. Meh

I dont see a reason to punish people who play effectively and dont take extended breaks 5 times a dungeon or wipe dozens of times because of being learning resistant.

This is a side note to your 1 person getting 19.5s on the 1st completed run, this happens in all of dungeons. I would out of dungeons for 2 days+ and doing a run that normally gets me 177k exp and 21+s I got 133k and 12s. Something is not right with the coding of this Anti-Farm change.

I did one boss. 10 minutes, few tokens. NO damaged gear. I still got 1.5 silver consistently, just as a test of this.
Either they are missing something or I am.

Mind you we did this as a test, 5 times in a row. No bathroom breaks.

@Kenral:
So you were able to go into CM story, kill first boss, then do relog dungeon reset?

If so, then don’t do it – ANet may ban you for exploiting.

He said tokens, so not story.

From the number of tokens, probably arah. That’s the only dungeon with a weird token count.

No actually, somewhere else. It was bugged. Anyways nope not doing it again, just stating.
Better patching + better level of reward = better dungeons.

kenral, report it and then carry on as if it doesn’t exist, don’t try and exploit it just ignore it. making parties is an essential part of the game, if they knackered that up and it’s causing issues with their rubbish “fix” then TS to them I say

Ah, my apologies

not intending to make it a grind?

lowering the XP makes it double the grind… -.-

dungeons are really time consuming, and the lowered XP is not woth it

i think you guys should go in game and see the diminishing numbers of people in dungeons

NP, just well the patch seems half baked and I do find it funny you can only efficiently get said tokens with a full team and essentially DPS spamming him/her/it to death before your party dies.

So after FINALLY beginning to start doing dungeons, and seeing all these people in cool looking gear. I do around 10 runs of Cof, Thoroughly enjoying myself and every aspect of the “speed run” I really enjoyed the part where we have to wait for Magg to detonate the bomb.It was very challenging and I liked it. Then when I found out I made 26s for completing it. I was like FINALLY i wont be going negative in my dungeon runs, cuz I actually was more careful in this dungeon and didnt die as often as say others.

Then I do this dungeon this morning and make 3s… 3s is about a fourth of what i spend on deaths in here. Yea I’m not a great player but I really enjoyed this. I love dungeons, and although the grind for gear is ridiculous for dungeon gear . It was going to be fun and not kill my bank.
I stopped playing D3 cuz of repair costs, so far Gw2 is heading in the same horrible direction. Im fine with u guys making it more difficult, but dont nerf the rewards, if anything increase the token rewards or lessen the cost of token gear.

For a game who prides itself on not being a farm game I feel like I’m farming mykitten off for little to nothing.. Please fix this. From all these replies youve got to understand your ruining any semblance of a good game for the players. RUINING. thank you for your game up until this morning where I continually run into bugged storyline modes/skill points and now its not worth it to even do dungeons.

3s doesn’t even pay the way point costs to the dungeon…

I expected dungeons to be in line with rest of GW2 in terms of “innovation” and new way of thinking about grind. Its going backwards and its making me think this game is not worth playing.

I expected that a player can sit down 1 evening and deside if he wanted to go WWW, do world events or go do few dungeons. Obviously not.

For me its so twisted that I will not even be playing GW2 any more. Thats how wrong I consider the devs have got it on dungeons. There is no need for this – SPECALLY since the game is saying its turning away from the holy trinity.

To me it sounds like GW2 is trying to hide that its not able to create stuff that is not based on the holy trinity – And the best way to do it is to make it so noone will bother doing it.

The game already has horrible rep on its PVE content on sites like Twitch and almost all the ppl there just refuse to do Dungeons cause they are so bad.

Great way ANet of killing the no trinity concept even before ppl got a chance to try it.

JonPeters.5630:

Let me clarify the change a bit since not everyone understands it.

If you run the exact same chain twice in a row you will have your rewards cut. This means you can bounce back and forth between 2 different chains, even in the same dungeon without ever hitting this change. This change is made to encourage people to try different chains.

If you speed clear dungeons at a rate of more than 2/ hour, and continue to do that for some time your rewards will slowly begin to degrade. It doesn’t kick in after running a single dungeon and it doesn’t immediately zero out rewards.

Finally we reduced the value of repeating the story mode, because they are built to be easier and we want to encourage those repeating dungeons to run explore mode.

I got measly 13 silver and 80k xp for doing TA explo mode for my very first time. Nor other dungeon today was done. Is this right? My teammates got 20 silver and it seems another one got 30 silver.

Did SE Inquest path, waited an hour, did SE Defeat the Military path. 26s, then 13s.

It’s bad enough the game now penalizes you to the point where we felt compelled to sit there for an hour doing nothing, but when that hour didn’t even stop the “anti-speed run code”…? How slow are we supposed to be running these things?

I could understand if it wanted you to go do events for an hour or something, but 10 minutes into event farming and you’ve hit the anti loot farming code, and a half hour later you’ve hit the anti event farming code where it starts ticking off 20c and a decent amount of karma per event. There really should not be systems in the game where your players feel like they HAVE to sit there doing nothing for an hour just to play your game without being punished. As for me, got my monthly done. Not going to touch GW2 any more than running a dungeon a day with friends that still want stuff.

Anon.3041:

I expected dungeons to be in line with rest of GW2 in terms of “innovation” and new way of thinking about grind. Its going backwards and its making me think this game is not worth playing.

I expected that a player can sit down 1 evening and deside if he wanted to go WWW, do world events or go do few dungeons. Obviously not.

For me its so twisted that I will not even be playing GW2 any more. Thats how wrong I consider the devs have got it on dungeons. There is no need for this – SPECALLY since the game is saying its turning away from the holy trinity.

To me it sounds like GW2 is trying to hide that its not able to create stuff that is not based on the holy trinity – And the best way to do it is to make it so noone will bother doing it.

The game already has horrible rep on its PVE content on sites like Twitch and almost all the ppl there just refuse to do Dungeons cause they are so bad.

Great way ANet of killing the no trinity concept even before ppl got a chance to try it.

They got the money so it doesn’t matter now. Devs did say that it’s suppose to be insanely difficult and not for everyone, totally go against Anet’s philosophy. They once said that anyone can solo the game without ever joining the group, guess what??? good luck with that. Oh you want to solo dungeon? here some god mode potion! As a casual gamer, I’m so disappointed wish I didn’t buy the game.

Okay, serious question here.
If I run a dungeon path with friends today and then we decide to run the same one tomorrow, do we get hit with this change?

Hey guys, if you hate the vast multitude of diminishing rewards/anti-farming systems that are constantly being added to the game, please chime in on this thread I made: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Get-rid-of-the-constant-diminishing-returns-throughout-the-game/first#post175191

Currently these systems are ruining the game for any normal player, while not affecting bots at all. I shouldn’t have to babysit this system in order to play properly, and I don’t feel that others should be forced to either.

Also, this is an issue that is affecting all of us players, so please go and try it for yourself so you can witness the utter frustration of suddenly not getting anything in return for your hard work.

These changes only serve to make the game harder for new players to get into, less fun for current players, and mind-numbingly frustrating in general.

These systems need to be removed immediately for the long-term health of the game.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/RE-JonPeters-Dungeon-Updates

Invisible Mods now….nice.

Well here goes my 2 cents.

I never knew how true my character’s creation line was going to be until yesterdays’ patch

“Im a common folk, my friends and I don’t seek fame or glory, we have hard enough time as it is making ends meet”

And with the crazy costs of Way Pointing and Armour repairing, It’s pretty tough for a level 80 to keep up with the bills.

Am I supposed to walk to Tarnished coast, then to Blazeridge Steppes and to Forstgorge to face the dragon champions because their reward is like 1silver and the chances of getting a rare is pretty slim even if you’re suited up with 3 sup runes of the noble, innit?

Im fine with you guys at Anet wanting to make Caudacus’ Manor harder, it was waaay too easy the first time around and I’ve done it after the patch, it was more challenging I like that, What I don’t like is that you decided that 26 silvers is too much so heres 3 silvers, then fine give us the same silver reward as you did for under people under level 80, with 13 silvers, atleast I can use a Way Point in the region 6 times.

Mind you if you break an exotic piece of armour that thing is worth just about 3 silver to fix and with the bad loot… You just made it so threes no incentive for more veteran players to help newer players through dungeons.

Why would someone whos level 80 randomly join a pug and help out newer players who wish to dungeon if the risk outweighs the reward? I wouldn’t, money is tight in GW2.

And this issue doesn’t just boil down to the Story Mode dungeon, if what I’ve been reading in other threads about CoF and the dungeon rewards diminishing, and as a person who does NOT find end game dungeon sets visually or aesthetically pleasing (talking mainly about medium armour) I have absolutely no reason whatsoever to do explorable dungeons and Ive already done a AC and CM explore with pugs, sure we weren’t the best of the best seeing the game was only about 5 days old, we werent 80s and theres no actual wikis to see how we’re supposed to do this, so we were one of the first few pioneers but with the rewards being that we can still fix our gear and then make some made it fun, I still Dungeon with 2 people I did explore AC with up till yesterday. That’s the power of the community at work when 2 strangers get together and bond over something they enjoy in the game, why ruin that?

Now that I know if I get stuck in a bad pug in Arah’s explorable mode which I had planned on doing to find out more about the dragon lore, I’ll be in serious debt… so… yeah goodbye to that, I’ll just wiki this a month later to read and find out about the how the Jotun, the Forgotten and the Mursaat fought the dragons instead of losing my all my money to fix my armour just to experience your story which are fantastic stories by the way. Don’t get me wrong the lore in GW2 is one of the things that keeps me to Tyria.

It’s not a grind if you actually enjoyed it.

Personally I did enjoy running the dungeons and seeing the different play styles that each person has to each profession and the combos you can come up with.
It was a good way to bridge the gap between those who are 80 and those who are not keeping the mix diverse and the social interaction you just dont get with the other parts.

Heres what I find grindy.

Discipline/Crafting – In every MMO thats ever had this system, I just cant be bothered to level up my crafting, I really really cant, its boring its monotonous, I’m guessing theres profit to be made here since people buy onnomnomberry bars and peach tarts. So hay look out crafters. I find this aspect in any game to be the most boring thing to do, Oh look I made an 8slot bag, I made an 8slot bag again! Woo (referring to the famous Collin Johansen I swung a sword line in the manifesto video) grind.

Hearts/Quests – I hope everyone realizes that Heart events are just another name for quests right? Now theres no talking to NPC, Predetermined amount of kill/gather XX of YY or backtracking to get reward and if you’re lucky the heart coincides with a Dynamic Event, I don’t mind doing them, but still not as fun as playing with 5 players and seeing each different play styles, so still grindy.

Dynamic Events – I remember when I was 24 to 27 there was not much content in kessex hills, so everyone started grinding the centaur bridge dynamic event it goes like this. Bridge – Overlord Camp – Champion overlord, repeat. It did not feel dynamic, it felt like a Routine Event another name for a routine…. Grind. (Yes I know not all DEs are designed poorly like this but if you start depending on them as a source of leveling thats a grind)

Dragon Champions – Theres even dragon timers that keep track of spawn times for dragons and people do grind them.

Map Exploration – By that I mean finding all the vistas, the pois, the waypoints and so forth, thats grinding to get a star by your name.

PVP – Thats right PVP is a grind as well if you don’t enjoy it and you want that pvp title, You’re going to have to… grind it.

SUMMARY for those TL:DRers
So to summarize. You say 26 silvers is too much of a reward?
Fair enough but is 3 silvers even a reward?

Your Risk and Reward ratio is unbalanced.
You’re closing the gap between people who level 80s and people who are just starting to experience dungeons by telling people who are 80 to go away, theres nothing for you here.

And I get you want your exp mode to be hard but you want it at a level where its only beatable by players who are really organized with teamspeak/vent/skype, why are you punishing casual players when your marketing is casual friendly? Casual doesn’t mean you lack gaming skills, It just means you lack the dedication to plan a dungeon raid 3 days in advance and clear your schedule for the next 30mins to an hour. A pug of casuals that notices what’s happening around them and take advantage of combo fields rallying downed players and organizing spikes on targeted mob without any vocal cue is far more skillful than an organized team and You’re punishing them for playing the game the way you designed, based on skill instead of cookie cutter team mechanics.

So if this trend keeps up where you fubar all aspects of Guildwars 2 PVE content. Guildwars2 is just going to end up like Guildwars for me.

In the sense that, I log on, I queue for PVP, I kill people for an hour or 2 and log out.

Guildwars had a nice story, game mechanics was sub par you normally end up playing with heroes anyways for PVE, I grinded PVE in guildwars was to get good looking armour to kill people in PVP with style. It’s a vanity thing.

So instead of telling us how to play and when to play Anet, why not just let us play what we want to play, what aspects of the game we find fun and focus on that until we get bored and move on, instead of taking our fun away.

I can assure you most people use that money at the end of dungeons to pay their bills and for upgrades.

You may have not noticed but your exotic set crafted versions are expensive as well.

Fixing one problem by creating another

This is not the way to go about things Anet.

There was a problem. True. Most people can acknowledge that. Even those taking advantage of it, not wanting to easily give it up, realize it wasnt meant to be that way.
However, the implemented solution to the problem, created a new problem.

That problem isnt “omg I cant farm tokens in 20 minutes”
That problem isnt “omg the game isnt a cake walk anymore”

The problem is simple. The changes have made things not fun. They have made things frustrating. And NOT because you cant get easy rewards. Here is a little formula:

Fun > Reward > Low Frustration level

What does this mean? Simple:
A game should have elements that are Fun. First and foremost.
If an element ISNT exactly fun, it needs to feel rewarding, to make up for it.
If an element isnt fun OR rewarding, it needs to not be frustrating (because it doesnt offer fun or rewards).

Certain dungeons, before the fix, like CoF, werent exactly fun. Speed runs, through the use of unintended ways of beating the challenges, isnt exactly fun gameplay. It WAS however, rewarding to those doing it (which is why they did it). Not rewarding in that “I just beat a hard challenge” feeling. Rewarding in the “I got tokens and gold” fashion, which for many, was enough to make up for the fact that the Fun level was low.
This fix gets rid of the unintended ways of beating the challenges. This removes the “reward” from the picture because now people cant speed farm it. This means “Fun” needs to step in and take its place.

Does “fun” replace it? No. Why not? Simple. Untested, unbalanced game encounters and mechanics. You CAN beat the dungeon. Yes. But many people cant. Bad or good, doesnt matter, Not being able to beat a dungeon, isnt fun. Its frustrating. Dieing over and over (even if that gets you past something), isnt fun. Its frustrating. Encounters and events NEED to be tested and balanced so that they are FUN while still being challenging enough to prevent speed running via “unintended” gameplay. Eventually players will say “this isnt worth doing. its not fun, or rewarding, so im just not gonna play it.” I really dont think this is what anet wants its players thinking.

Right now, aside for those uber geared, or small 1% of elite uber skilled gamers, CoF isnt something they can play through, even slowly, and complete in a FUN and REWARDING fashion. In fact, most people I talk with, walk away extremely frustrated. Not because they cant farm it 5 times an hour, but simply because getting through it even ONCE is not worth it. The effort and frustration put in, doesnt equal the fun and reward it puts out. Gaming really does come down to that simple formula. THIS COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED HAD THE CHANGES BEEN PUT ON A TEST REALM FIRST.

One last thing. Punishing good players, players who are skilled enough, and geared enough TO do dungeons quickly and more importantly, without “expoiting”, is the wrong way to go about things. Having diminishing returns on dungeon rewards based on how quickly you do them is just WRONG. Its like saying, “I know you are geared and skilled enough to get through this in 15 minutes, but you need to purposely slow down and take at least 30 to get through this, even if you dont need to”

Thats punishing good players. Even Blizzard realized this, as much as I hate to admit it. Its why their system limited the number of runs you could do in a specific time period. That let skilled, geared players rush through a dungeon as fast as they wanted, getting 100% of the rewards, but still managed to put a kind of soft cap on how often they could reap the rewards.

Question: They take out the ability to grind dungeons because they hate grinding. Isn’t running around finding waypoints and doing 100% maps considered a lesser form of grinding? I mean it’s worse than grinding because you’re not killing anything. So why not take that out? Oh, because the diehard fans who demanded that CM be screwed over are the only ones who grind maps like WoW players grind monster kills.
There’s grinding in EVERY MMO. The best part of GW2 is that we can choose to do different things to level. Or we used to be able to. Now they took out dungeons because some people were complaining about it because THEY didn’t like it.
So stupid.

ChairGraveyard.2967:

datheway.8364:

It is still very easy Anet. It’s still childplay. It would be awesome if the difficulty, armor repair cost increase. Oh yes did I forget to mention reduce to rewards so elite skilled players appreciate the rewards more.

Agreed, the 9s repair cost is too low at level 80. It should be at least 90s-1g per piece. The reward also should be 2 copper as 2 silver is a FORTUNE! We don’t want people inflating the economy by bringing 2 whole silver in every time they complete a dungeon, that’s just too much.

^Win. LOL

nicolebsb.5240:

Question: They take out the ability to grind dungeons because they hate grinding. Isn’t running around finding waypoints and doing 100% maps considered a lesser form of grinding? I mean it’s worse than grinding because you’re not killing anything. So why not take that out? Oh, because the diehard fans who demanded that CM be screwed over are the only ones who grind maps like WoW players grind monster kills.
There’s grinding in EVERY MMO. The best part of GW2 is that we can choose to do different things to level. Or we used to be able to. Now they took out dungeons because some people were complaining about it because THEY didn’t like it.
So stupid.

Because doing it effectively is not doing it right, it’s not the vision the dungeon designers had in mind.