Guild Wars 2

Dear ANet,

As a dungeon seller I find the recent dungeon owner changes extremly annoying. People just can join me, kick me and finish the dungeon by themselves. I understand the changes for groups / parties. But I find it very disappointing to not be able to choose between:

• opener is owner
• no owner

It’s great to be protected by leavers and afk (who have to be kicked if you don’t want to finish a dungeon with 4 ppl). Yet you should really think about the others too.

Please give us a ownership option, and a little star at the party list for the owner.

Thx everyone
- Xyonon

Seems they changed the way you’re messaged for joining groups, you see a “Xyonon joined group” “Jerus joined group” so if you’re kicked you’ll have the names to report.

Now… I guess someone has been reported countless times for this in the past and nothing was done, so I’m not holding my breath, but the devs did ask that players report people doing this kind of thing and said they would be punishing them… again not holding my breath but /shrug.

i actually jus got kicked by two players when me and my friend duo’ed arah and trying to sell the path

it should take more than 2 people to kick

HyVent.6072:

i actually jus got kicked by two players when me and my friend duo’ed arah and trying to sell the path

it should take more than 2 people to kick

Did you write down their names and report them?

The problem is, if they join fast enough and kick you, you won’t see the party chat anymore. You don’t have any information. Also – this is the 2nd time this happened to me. I reported a scammer once before and the supports reaction is just … well not what I’ve expected to achieve with a repot :/

I’ll share the dialogue with you (no names):

Me:

Greeting dear Support team,

Today I’ve been scammed by 2 players, yet sadly I only got the name of one right now.
I was soloing caudecus manor path 3 with my engineer (of course without exploiting, according to the statement of this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Safespots-and-Exploits/page/2).
When I was done and tried to sell the path tonight (03:10 am, GMT +2). Suddenly two – excuse me – morons joined my party and said “cash or cick!”. I thought it was a joke, but I was able to pm one of them to keep the name in my chat. So they really kicked me from the party and annihilated my work.

The one who forced me to pay was “Mateusz.5786” with his caracter “Harems”. I don’t know the other ones name…

I’m a fair tradesman and I really enjoy the challenge and reward of soloing dungeons in this game. Yet this behavor is just unaccaptable! I’m not angry, I just want justice Take your time with a response, I’m in no hurry if you got more important requests at the time.

Greez Xyonon (Engineer: Ziggs Ironeye)

Answer:

I am sorry to learn of the issue you and your party encountered during your recent dungeon run. I certainly understand how frustrating this can be, especially when you have spent quite a bit of time in the dungeon.

Our development team frequently reviews issues related to the game, including potential issues with dungeons. In the past, they have made a few changes to dungeon mechanics and they will continue to make adjustments as necessary to resolve issues.

Should you have any other doubts or concerns, please let us know.

Me again:

Wait – so you tell me two can go into a party and force them to pay or kick without any punishment? o.O

And their answer:

For the time being, exchanging in-game currency or items for a party (in this case – a dungeon run) is not a violation to our Rules of Conduct or the User Agreement.

However, please keep in mind that the Guild Wars 2 Support Team cannot get involved in these player-to-player transactions. If you are victimized by another player, we will investigate the matter and take appropriate action against any individual found to be guilty of a violation of our User Agreement or Rules of Conduct. However, we will not attempt to uphold private agreements through such means as moving items or gold between accounts.

If you ask me, this is clearly scamming and should be punished. What protection do we have otherwise? Not only dungeon sellers, also other ppl! ONLY TWO MEMBER of a guild have to join a dungeon and can kick the other 3 at endboss for their guildies! If they won’t get punished, WHY SHOULD THEY STOP?!

ANet please do something about this issue, even a little sentence here that you’ve read this!

yea i reported them, i dont think anet will change anything about this in the near future.

i am just pointing out a flaw in the current system

clearly they are just abusing the LFG system for lulz

Xyonon.3987:

The problem is, if they join fast enough and kick you, you won’t see the party chat anymore. You don’t have any information. Also – this is the 2nd time this happened to me. I reported a scammer once before and the supports reaction is just … well not what I’ve expected to achieve with a repot :/

I’ll share the dialogue with you (no names):

---

Me:

Greeting dear Support team,

Today I’ve been scammed by 2 players, yet sadly I only got the name of one right now.
I was soloing caudecus manor path 3 with my engineer (of course without exploiting, according to the statement of this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Safespots-and-Exploits/page/2).
When I was done and tried to sell the path tonight (03:10 am, GMT +2). Suddenly two – excuse me – morons joined my party and said “cash or cick!”. I thought it was a joke, but I was able to pm one of them to keep the name in my chat. So they really kicked me from the party and annihilated my work.

The one who forced me to pay was “Mateusz.5786” with his caracter “Harems”. I don’t know the other ones name…

I’m a fair tradesman and I really enjoy the challenge and reward of soloing dungeons in this game. Yet this behavor is just unaccaptable! I’m not angry, I just want justice Take your time with a response, I’m in no hurry if you got more important requests at the time.

Greez Xyonon (Engineer: Ziggs Ironeye)

Answer:

I am sorry to learn of the issue you and your party encountered during your recent dungeon run. I certainly understand how frustrating this can be, especially when you have spent quite a bit of time in the dungeon.

Our development team frequently reviews issues related to the game, including potential issues with dungeons. In the past, they have made a few changes to dungeon mechanics and they will continue to make adjustments as necessary to resolve issues.

Should you have any other doubts or concerns, please let us know.

Me again:

Wait – so you tell me two can go into a party and force them to pay or kick without any punishment? o.O

And their answer:

For the time being, exchanging in-game currency or items for a party (in this case – a dungeon run) is not a violation to our Rules of Conduct or the User Agreement.

However, please keep in mind that the Guild Wars 2 Support Team cannot get involved in these player-to-player transactions. If you are victimized by another player, we will investigate the matter and take appropriate action against any individual found to be guilty of a violation of our User Agreement or Rules of Conduct. However, we will not attempt to uphold private agreements through such means as moving items or gold between accounts.

---

If you ask me, this is clearly scamming and should be punished. What protection do we have otherwise? Not only dungeon sellers, also other ppl! ONLY TWO MEMBER of a guild have to join a dungeon and can kick the other 3 at endboss for their guildies! If they won’t get punished, WHY SHOULD THEY STOP?!

ANet please do something about this issue, even a little sentence here that you’ve read this!

“For the time being, exchanging in-game currency or items for a party (in this case – a dungeon run) is not a violation to our Rules of Conduct or the User Agreement.”

What a kittening joke.

Edit:

Wait a second… I think support thought the two people who kicked you were the sellers.

I don’t think they “thought” anything, they just forwarded the generic response. “he mentioned selling, /copy generic_selling01, /paste, hit reply”.

I know now you get yellow text “soandso has left the party” when you leave a party. Hoping to have a few more friends log on in a few to see if it happens if you kick someone from a dungeon too. As long as we get names then that’s good. ANet still has to act on it, which again I highly doubt, but the devs did say they would in multiple threads. I’d really suggest that if people have this happen they add the people to friends lists, report them, and check in to see if anything has been done, if not give ANet a whole mess load of crap for failing to follow through on it.

Reporting people for griefing still won’t change the fact that people can still do this, it’s not a permanent solution. Additionally, while most people believe that this will only affect people selling arah paths, it also affect anyone who uses the lfg system. Since the lfg allows anyone to join a group without any kind of parameter (i.e. level restriction or solo join/party merge), there is no mean of preventing people from merging their party of 2 with another party that’s already made a dungeon and halfway thru and effectively kicking the original party to invite their own friends/guild.

Chris Cleary.8017:

Dungeon selling is not something that will be officially supported. Listing a group on the LFG tool is opening it up to a public realm and you do so at your own risk.

Customer Service will not be able to support any interactions that involves group formation politics.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t you all just post in response to these concerns a week or two ago saying that joining a party and kicking the seller would result in bans and that you had people working on new documentation so we could more easily see the names to report them? is this a full 180 or am I crazy?

Chris Cleary.8017:

Dungeon selling is not something that will be officially supported. Listing a group on the LFG tool is opening it up to a public realm and you do so at your own risk.

Customer Service will not be able to support any interactions that involves group formation politics.

Wait, so this means that customer support won’t be doing anything anymore if several people join my LFG posting and then proceed to kick me from the dungeon?

Take precautions. Build a list of trusted buyers and advertise appropriately.

Vix/Brazil/Crigger and I sold easily a few hundred runs and hardly even used the LFG tool. If you want to provide a service known to be ‘high’ risk, then put in the effort to mitigate it.

Chris Cleary.8017:

Dungeon selling is not something that will be officially supported. Listing a group on the LFG tool is opening it up to a public realm and you do so at your own risk.

Customer Service will not be able to support any interactions that involves group formation politics.

If that the case, then the use of the LFG system is more risk than help. Regardless of dungeon selling or not. Not to mention you also said that arenanet will be of no help if players get kicked from their own dungeon. Very disappointing to hear

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

IvanTheGrey.2941:

Mr. Whiteside, sorry to bring it up again, but can you clarify the changes in instance ownership? I believe that there’s a genuine concern for griefing, and I was hoping that you could put our legitimate worries at ease.

Thanks again for replying!

We have been discussing this for a very long time. Can you PM me so i remember to get back to this point when it is appropriate to do so please?

Chris

I could answer this! It is true two people could be invited and then boot out everyone else to “take over” the instance where as before two people could only kick the instance owner out closing the instance destroying it for everyone. While this isn’t ideal and something we need to look more into, the goal of this change was to reduce the more common case of the instance owner leaving. For now Ryan is looking into adding some logging (see post here) so people can report people abusing this.

Ryan Diederich.8179:

Asmodeus.5782:

As I mentioned in my thread on the topic, it would be great to have the number of needed kick votes increased to 3, to minimize griefing resulting from this change. Personally I always started my own dungeon parties to avoid kick-happy couples. Now there’s nothing to kep me safe. 2 votes have always been a bad idea, anyway. Not even a majority.

I actually agree with you. I would have liked to increase the vote count a majority with this change, but unfortunately not all the pieces of code around party votes are set up in a way to make this a quick and easy change.

We were aware of the possible issues with the instance ownership change, but felt that holding back an improvement to the base experience on account of trolls was unfair to users that are playing nice.

Stealing instances using the LFG tool, or booting people for no reason (or to give your buddy the rewards for no work) at the end of a run are bannable offenses and should be reported.

Ryan Diederich.8179:

Harny.6012:

Hello Ryan,
thanks for this information.

Any tips on how to get name of those trolls that kick you from your own instance quickly?
There usually isn’t time to write anything down or to make any screenshots.

Thanks in advance!

There appears to be some nice debug messages for party join/leave that I’m going to see if I can turn into “LFG Messages” in the chat log which should make this easier…

So, is stealing instances bannable, or is it bannable but customer service won’t do anything so in reality it doesn’t matter what the rules are?

my proposal to fix this change in a party of 5 would mean 4 members would have to votekick.

so if 4/5 in a party – 3/5 should be able to kick
3/5 in a party – 2/5 should be able to kick
even if it is a bannable offense and we report players, it is only a bandaid fix to the fundamental flaw of only requiring 2 people to kick the original members out of the party and stealing the instance

Chris Cleary.8017:

Dungeon selling is not something that will be officially supported. Listing a group on the LFG tool is opening it up to a public realm and you do so at your own risk.

Customer Service will not be able to support any interactions that involves group formation politics.

So as a dungeon seller, if i am kicked from my instance while selling, to bad? In fact, this statement applies to all LFG. If i am in a fractal, and 2 people kick me at the last boss, to bad? This is complete and utter kitten, you said several weeks ago when people where posting these very concerns that doing the things just mentioned were a ban able offence, and now its fine? WTF anet, this is rediculous.

HyVent.6072:

my proposal to fix this change in a party of 5 would mean 4 members would have to votekick.

so if 4/5 in a party – 3/5 should be able to kick
3/5 in a party – 2/5 should be able to kick
even if it is a bannable offense and we report players, it is only a bandaid fix to the fundamental flaw of only requiring 2 people to kick the original members out of the party and stealing the instance

I’d really just like to see LFG place you in a /join request instead of right into the group. That’d work ideally for sellers, name pops up, “pay now or you don’t get in”. And for non sellers, it’d let you screen your party “we said we didn’t want a 3rd mesmer…”

In one of the things I quoted it sounds like they don’t have the code ready to do the majority thing, it’d be nice if they took the time to do that but /shrug sounded like there are no plans to do so.

Chris Cleary.8017:

…

Customer Service will not be able to support any interactions that involves group formation politics.

What was even the point of the change to the chatbox that allowed us the ability to see who leaves and enters the group then?

This is an extremely disturbing red-post. You are pretty much saying that players who will abuse the vote kick feature to steal instances, or “group formation politics” as you call it, will get a free pass w/o any repercussions. We already knew you were not taking action to protect instance owners, but to see it in solidified with your post is beyond sickening. This applies to any situation, whether the instance owner is selling or not.

If this was a some sort of misinterpretation of your quote, you need to be a lot more responsible in the clarity of your words when discussing these matters.

Jerus.4350:

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

IvanTheGrey.2941:

Mr. Whiteside, sorry to bring it up again, but can you clarify the changes in instance ownership? I believe that there’s a genuine concern for griefing, and I was hoping that you could put our legitimate worries at ease.

Thanks again for replying!

We have been discussing this for a very long time. Can you PM me so i remember to get back to this point when it is appropriate to do so please?

Chris

I could answer this! It is true two people could be invited and then boot out everyone else to “take over” the instance where as before two people could only kick the instance owner out closing the instance destroying it for everyone. While this isn’t ideal and something we need to look more into, the goal of this change was to reduce the more common case of the instance owner leaving. For now Ryan is looking into adding some logging (see post here) so people can report people abusing this.

Ryan Diederich.8179:

Asmodeus.5782:

As I mentioned in my thread on the topic, it would be great to have the number of needed kick votes increased to 3, to minimize griefing resulting from this change. Personally I always started my own dungeon parties to avoid kick-happy couples. Now there’s nothing to kep me safe. 2 votes have always been a bad idea, anyway. Not even a majority.

I actually agree with you. I would have liked to increase the vote count a majority with this change, but unfortunately not all the pieces of code around party votes are set up in a way to make this a quick and easy change.

We were aware of the possible issues with the instance ownership change, but felt that holding back an improvement to the base experience on account of trolls was unfair to users that are playing nice.

Stealing instances using the LFG tool, or booting people for no reason (or to give your buddy the rewards for no work) at the end of a run are bannable offenses and should be reported.

Ryan Diederich.8179:

Harny.6012:

Hello Ryan,
thanks for this information.

Any tips on how to get name of those trolls that kick you from your own instance quickly?
There usually isn’t time to write anything down or to make any screenshots.

Thanks in advance!

There appears to be some nice debug messages for party join/leave that I’m going to see if I can turn into “LFG Messages” in the chat log which should make this easier…

Ty for this quote.

Looks like someone isn’t on top of doing their job.

My guess is that customers service do not want to interfere since it will always boil down to one persons word against another. “It was a regular LFG and he demanded money”, “I gave him money and then he wanted more”, “He said we could take his spot as well for a friend of mine”, “We merged groups so why should we have to pay”, “I don’t speak his language”, and so on. These are the politics that customer services want to avoid.

Regular dungeon runs will have the same problems but without the toxic complications from gold transactions.

Stooperdale.3560:

My guess is that customers service do not want to interfere since it will always boil down to one persons word against another. “It was a regular LFG and he demanded money”, “I gave him money and then he wanted more”, “He said we could take his spot as well for a friend of mine”, “We merged groups so why should we have to pay”, “I don’t speak his language”, and so on. These are the politics that customer services want to avoid.

Regular dungeon runs will have the same problems but without the toxic complications from gold transactions.

If I’m not mistaken, CSRs should be able to see a log of the LFG posting, who joined the party, and who initiated/voted for the kick.

I’m fully against of this kind of activity – selling a dungeon; but in this case – my concern is this:
Last night I started level 49 fractal. Me and guild mate + 3 random players reached the last boss of the last fractal when 1 of the randoms dc’d and a second one left for no reason. We decided to replace them with 2 other random players. Suddenly me, my friend and the 3rd random player got kicked instantly after the 2 new fresh reqruits. It was a pure theft of my run.
Chris what do you think?

in my case, 2 players joined quickly and kicked me instantly and my my friend.

not a single word was exchanged. my friend tried to join the party again as they didnt take it down yet but they both just kicked him out and whispered to him “wtf?”

there was no politics or drama involved in my case. just two guys wanted to steal the instance or trolling

Chris Cleary.8017:

I’ll go ahead and clarify since there has apparently been different information coming from different sources in the past. Customer Service is not able to support party politics unless they involve cases of targeted harassment in-game. This is because of the number of different reasons that certain party politics happen. Since CS only has access to actions that occur in-game, we are unable to verify specifics for incidents in a large number of incidents. Specifics are the most important part of these situations.

However, we do view player reports via CS tickets, and if a player can be verified as a habitual abuser of the LFG system or parties in general, we can take action against them.

What counts as targeted harassment? It seems like people who join parties specifically to destroy the instance of someone selling the run are targeting the seller for harassment.

What Chris said is that selling dungeons isn’t supported and if you get kicked while trying to sell it’s your own fault. However, if someone joins the group and kicks you out of a dungeon for any reason, that should be reported just in case that same player is doing the same to a lot of people, in which cause it should be banned due to community toxicity and griefing(is that a word in english?) players.

I believe that’s what he meant.

Chris Cleary.8017:

I’ll go ahead and clarify since there has apparently been different information coming from different sources in the past. Customer Service is not able to support party politics unless they involve cases of targeted harassment in-game. This is because of the number of different reasons that certain party politics happen. Since CS only has access to actions that occur in-game, we are unable to verify specifics for incidents in a large number of incidents. Specifics are the most important part of these situations.

However, we do view player reports via CS tickets, and if a player can be verified as a habitual abuser of the LFG system or parties in general, we can take action against them.

Firstly, there is no party politics at all occuring. It’s just plain theft. Secondly, the LFG system was implement 1 year ago and to say it’s in beta is just an excuse on your part.

This is so horribly stupid that I cant help but laugh.

Chris Cleary.8017:

I’ll go ahead and clarify since there has apparently been different information coming from different sources in the past. Customer Service is not able to support party politics unless they involve cases of targeted harassment in-game. This is because of the number of different reasons that certain party politics happen. Since CS only has access to actions that occur in-game, we are unable to verify specifics for incidents in a large number of incidents. Specifics are the most important part of these situations.

However, we do view player reports via CS tickets, and if a player can be verified as a habitual abuser of the LFG system or parties in general, we can take action against them.

It seems to me, regardless of the specifics, If I post a dungeon or fractal near the end and someone joins and steals my and my parties instance (let’s say I have 2 others and the newcomers kick all three of us to STEAL this instance) that they should be permanently banned from the game. It shouldn’t matter if is 3 were selling a trio Arah run or just needing help. That’s blatant harassment and should be punished without mercy the first time it happens, TO PREVENT IT FROM BECOMING HABITUAL.

Errant Venture.9371:

What counts as targeted harassment? It seems like people who join parties specifically to destroy the instance of someone selling the run are targeting the seller for harassment.

Someone that kicked the openers of at least 5 dungeons in the past 24 hours with no apparent reason, as example, would qualify to be banned in my opinnion. I hope Anet see them that way.

I kinda understand their move, though, it’s imposible for them to know if someone was kicked because it was playing poorly, giving players a bad experience, dying all the time or wiping the group, etc. However to check how many players a certain individual kicked in the past hours could probably be easy to check if there’s reports about that same player, so it’s encouraged to report kickers i guess.

I’m not trying to be rude Chris, I do appreciate that you’re here talking. But, that post doesn’t really clarify much. To me it just sounds like confirmation that stealing instances won’t be punished at all. Is that right? Was what I quoted just a bunch of smoke being blown?

I understand that in many cases kicking can have various reasons. For example:

• 5 people are in a dungeon, get towards the end, player is kicked, they report the rest as kicking them to get a guild member in. There’s no good way to prove this, the guy could have been a jerk, he could have been bad, there’s plenty of reasons to get kicked and there’s no good proof.

• 2 people join a group, they kick the rest of the group within 30s of joining the party which was already at the end of the dungeon. I don’t see how there is confusion there

Could you clarify how scenario 2 could be something other than abuse and “stealing an instance” which is “bannable”?

UncoolZeus.2136:

Chris Cleary.8017:

Elrey.5472:

What Chris said is that selling dungeons isn’t supported and if you get kicked while trying to sell it’s your own fault. However, if someone joins the group and kicks you out of a dungeon for any reason, that should be reported just in case that same player is doing the same to a lot of people, in which cause it should be banned due to community toxicity and griefing(is that a word in english?) players.

I believe that’s what he meant.

This is a good way to interoperate what I said.

So if they do it 5 or 6 times its okay, but if they do it a bunch its not? Such logic, its amazing.

Well I certainly hope so since another gameplay programmer said that. AND oh the inconvenience of the Guild Wars 2 Rules of Conduct https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/ Rule 1.While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game.
I have to say…I am VERY disappointed in the griefing that is allowed in this game. It is like Anet went to SLEEP compared to GW1. It literally took 3 hours, hundreds of complaints and a dev in our guild coming online to get a person banned for ruining marionette for our server. This is unacceptable. Now we have a broken party system that is SO easily fixed by reinstating party leader that is unkickable, unless they DC or leave party (then it simply goes to 2d person to join party and so on), and we have all sorts of other issues that are flat out ignored by Anet staff. I want to play an Anet game, not a blizzard hostile community game.

Reporting toxic players is only putting a band-aid on the whole issue. Even if said toxic player was to be banned, what’s to stop him from buying another account to do it all over again? It’s not a solution for the players, it’s a solution for arenanet.

Paladin.1279:

Well I certainly hope so since another gameplay programmer said that. AND oh the inconvenience of the Guild Wars 2 Rules of Conduct https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/ Rule 1.While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game.
I have to say…I am VERY disappointed in the griefing that is allowed in this game. It is like Anet went to SLEEP compared to GW1. It literally took 3 hours, hundreds of complaints and a dev in our guild coming online to get a person banned for ruining marionette for our server. This is unacceptable. Now we have a broken party system that is SO easily fixed by reinstating party leader that is unkickable, unless they DC or leave party (then it simply goes to 2d person to join party and so on), and we have all sorts of other issues that are flat out ignored by Anet staff. I want to play an Anet game, not a blizzard hostile community game.

Absokittylutely.

It’s okay to grief and harass if you don’t do it too often!

Whatever anet. And good job Chris. My 400+ dollars per month will go elsewhere.

ANet obviously caters to everything casual, even casual griefers.

i hope we have even more instance stealers and griefers in that case.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

gasp

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL11!!!!!111!!!

You even made lilith angry. Wow. Just wow.

This is very confusing. So about kicking people and inviting friends..basically hijacking instances..yay or nay?

robertul.3679:

This is very confusing. So about kicking people and inviting friends..basically hijacking instances..yay or nay?

From the sounds of it, nay, but you won’t ever get in trouble so technically a yay.

Welp, I’m so glad I started PvPing more often. At this point I no longer care. <:

Oh, and everyone saw this coming. Everyone. Pardon me, but to me it is either shortsightedness or plain negligence.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

ANet obviously caters to everything casual, even casual griefers.

+1
I smiled broadly.

I sometimes think it would be easier if ANet just came right out and said, “Selling or buying of dungeon runs is not allowed.” :/ I get why they don’t want players to do it (and I kind of agree), but leaving it open and letting this kind of toxic frustration build can’t be doing the game’s atmosphere any favours.

Zaxares.5419:

I sometimes think it would be easier if ANet just came right out and said, “Selling or buying of dungeon runs is not allowed.” :/ I get why they don’t want players to do it (and I kind of agree), but leaving it open and letting this kind of toxic frustration build can’t be doing the game’s atmosphere any favours.

This isn’t relevant to selling at all. There is no difference if the stolen instance is from a seller or from a new player looking for help.

edit: typo

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Paladin.1279:

Well I certainly hope so since another gameplay programmer said that. AND oh the inconvenience of the Guild Wars 2 Rules of Conduct https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/ Rule 1.While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game.
I have to say…I am VERY disappointed in the griefing that is allowed in this game. It is like Anet went to SLEEP compared to GW1. It literally took 3 hours, hundreds of complaints and a dev in our guild coming online to get a person banned for ruining marionette for our server. This is unacceptable. Now we have a broken party system that is SO easily fixed by reinstating party leader that is unkickable, unless they DC or leave party (then it simply goes to 2d person to join party and so on), and we have all sorts of other issues that are flat out ignored by Anet staff. I want to play an Anet game, not a blizzard hostile community game.

Absokittylutely.

It’s okay to grief and harass if you don’t do it too often!

Whatever anet. And good job Chris. My 400+ dollars per month will go elsewhere.

This is the saddest I have been in a while

Zaxares.5419:

I sometimes think it would be easier if ANet just came right out and said, “Selling or buying of dungeon runs is not allowed.” :/ I get why they don’t want players to do it (and I kind of agree), but leaving it open and letting this kind of toxic frustration build can’t be doing the game’s atmosphere any favours.

In most games, the harder the content the higher the reward. Even if designers don’t want to create some specially hard content, which would be catered to a minority of the playerbase, a classic reward system still allows players to complete regular content with a smaller group and getting a better reward for each one.

Nothing of this happens in GW2.
The loot system ensures everyone is going to be rewarded, so an extra hand (not stump) would be always welcomed.
Event scaling was supposed to counteract this, to keep fights interesting and prevent the biggest number from being always the best option, but in reality it did just the opposite. Event completion reward has always been terrible, monster loot being the real income source, and since scaling used to generate a higher amount of enemies, it actually encouraged people to zerg (which dumbs down the gameplay for the most part) for better rewards.
Some world bosses, which had a meaningful event completion reward, favoured small and efficient groups for some time. Since the release of megaservers, however, this is hardly doable anymore.
Dungeons do not scale, so they are easier/faster (thus more rewarding) with a full group, again.

I don’t like the idea itself of selling a dungeon slot.
I don’t want to sell anything to anyone, just a system that realizes I soloed/duoed a path and rewards it apropriately (enough to compensate, at least, the extra time it’s going to take me to complete the content with less people than intended), mostly because that’s the only way I have to tune the PvE difficulty of the game (which is incredibly low by default) to something fun without giving up rewards.
Dungeon selling is just the closest thing available to a system like this (which I really doubt we will ever have btw :P).

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Paladin.1279:

Well I certainly hope so since another gameplay programmer said that. AND oh the inconvenience of the Guild Wars 2 Rules of Conduct https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/ Rule 1.While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game.
I have to say…I am VERY disappointed in the griefing that is allowed in this game. It is like Anet went to SLEEP compared to GW1. It literally took 3 hours, hundreds of complaints and a dev in our guild coming online to get a person banned for ruining marionette for our server. This is unacceptable. Now we have a broken party system that is SO easily fixed by reinstating party leader that is unkickable, unless they DC or leave party (then it simply goes to 2d person to join party and so on), and we have all sorts of other issues that are flat out ignored by Anet staff. I want to play an Anet game, not a blizzard hostile community game.

Absokittylutely.

It’s okay to grief and harass if you don’t do it too often!

Whatever anet. And good job Chris. My 400+ dollars per month will go elsewhere.

I’m going to apologize right up front for this post but I am very frustrated at this point. People here throw money left and right at ANET but then ANET releases content at a snails pace. Now this might seem odd because I actually care about this game and I hope that ANET and NCSoft succeed but I’m very bored with having only 2 new maps since release (maybe another one coming after S2 mid break). I believe if people keep throwing money at ANET, things are only going to get worse, not better. I’m actually hoping a little bit that ANET starts having problems financially because I think that is the only way we are going see an actual expansion or “expansion’s worth of content”. You want new dungeons? You want more maps? You want the devs to finally listen to it’s player base? Quit throwing so much money in to the gem store, it’s actually making things worse at this point. Having said that though, I am actually happy that communication is improving and I hope it continues. I haven’t actually caught up with all the posts in the dev tracker since there was so many today but a post in a quote led me to this thread. Once again sorry for the rant, just frustrated.

Robert.4197:

. Having said that though, I am actually happy that communication is improving and I hope it continues. I haven’t actually caught up with all the posts in the dev tracker since there was so many today but a post in a quote led me to this thread. Once again sorry for the rant, just frustrated.

Sadly they are hearing us, giving us those politically correct answer but don’t be fooled, they aren’t listening. People spent hours and hours giving useful feedback in CDI thread, other spent hours organizing it so it would be easier to read for Dev/Mod. What did we get? more level gated content, 3 commander tag color? and more bug than fixes.

I am completely amaze at how much time and effort went into making the game worse. Good job, maybe if they Listened to the very nice suggestion people came up with, this game would be in a totally different shape.

Also, I want to rant about one more thing. WHERE IS THE BUILD TEMPLATE. Our build are already saved somewhere in a database, because if I log on my friend computer, I have the same utility/trait, which mean they could easily take 2 people, for less than a week to make a basic build template. We don’t care how awesome you want to make it, just make one already. Any dev could code that in 20 hours top.