Guild Wars 2

Renn.8241:

Apologises we didn’t realise you owned dungeons.

The amount of ignorance you emit is painful to read. Are you really suggesting that a pair of players has the right to join a dungeon in progress and then purge the group of its players because it belongs to “no one”?

In actually good games, this kind of behavior is called griefing and offending players are harshly penalized. People are afraid to grief in other games – good games – because there are actual consequences to their actions.

What a surprise – they aren’t afraid to do so in Guild Wars 2.

Chris Cleary.8017:

Listing a group on the LFG tool is opening it up to a public realm and you do so at your own risk.

Customer Service will not be able to support any interactions that involves group formation politics.

So you saying players listing a party in the LFG resulting in two griefers kicking the entire group is a “risk” they took? And no consequences will befall those that do this?

Renn.8241:

KuroEight.3024:

Firstly, there is no party politics at all occuring. It’s just plain theft. Secondly, the LFG system was implement 1 year ago and to say it’s in beta is just an excuse on your part.

Apologises we didn’t realise you owned dungeons.

Im glad anet are taking steps to stop dungeon selling, its almost as bad as gold selling and they should be banned.

Actually, to be frank, yes I do own the dungeon instance, if I made it. Unfortunately you’re only considering dungeon sellers to be the only ones affected by this. I’ve heard from people not just from this forum, but in-game that express their frustration from getting kicked from the dungeon they made and is in the middle of completing (Most often coming from Fractals). Additionally, because now that there is no dungeon owner, this diminish the need to do story dungeon to be able to unlock explorable dungeon. Someone who doesn’t play with a guild or might not have friends online is risking himself/herself to opening a dungeon only to get kicked at the end.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

dlonie.6547:

Haha, then I don’t stand a chance xD

BTW, I edited my post, but you reply too fast :-P

LOL thats all true I guess.

But I mean if I can just tell my boss “That’s too hard” to not do something…. Well.

I was in the uncomfortable position of telling my boss that something was impossible to do with the current engine/implementation.

Except that it wasn’t… because the engine could handle it, but the implementation that customers got couldn’t. And I was only allowed to use what customers had.

And I was an Intern.

Funtimes. If you’re going to have a software position, make sure your boss isn’t in marketing or sales… even if they have hardware/software background.

Every time i post an LFG i start with “Stealing Dungeons is a bannable offense, griefers will be reported” then i still have some space for “LFlvl80exp@boss” … Griefers seemed to avoid me whenever i did this.
And you can always say a dev confirmed that its bannable.

Nowdays I just record the run and pm all the buyers with a * so they can’t escape justice. Also I started to list players for daily buy. They help me all the time kicking scammers.

Timer on a kick vote (lets say 5seconds), and the ability to choose “no” would certainly change things.
In this scenario, griefers would need 3 players in order to hijack the instance, not just 2, which would definitely improve our chances.
But the perfect solution of course would be the ability to choose if you want to become an “owner” of the instance and be unkickable or not.

How the system should be (or with minor tweek) :

• There is a group leader and he can’t be kicked
• The group leader can give leadership to someone else
• Group leader can leave the instance and it won’t close.
• If he leaves the group, the leadership will go the 2nd guy who entered the group. The instance won’t close in the process.

Now, for the vote system, when the leader create the group he could chose between different kick option and IT WOULD HAVE TO BE CLEAR IN THE LFG TOOL (so a revamp of the lfg tool please?) :

• 2 vote kick (default option, as it is now. Remember leader can’t be kick)
• No vote kick
• Leader only can kick

I think a decent idea would be forming dungeon sellers guilds where you’d have to have membership to that guild in order to purchase a run. You can even advertise the guilds you’re okay with in the LFG dungeon path description. Legit path buyers and sellers could do business that way and strangers would be turned away. If anyone that was a member tried to exploit, I think more documentation could be kept manually and they could be kicked and remembered as exploiters. It would reduce a lot of through traffic of random dungeon buyers, but the ones that are on that list would be considered reputable. The only cost is giving up a guild slot of the 5 you can be a member of. It’s all I got until Anet implements a more realistic system.

I think the system I’d like to see would be as follows:

1. The person who opens the instance is automatically designated as the party leader. The leader can transfer leadership to anyone else at any time.

2. A majority vote (3/5) is needed to kick anybody.

3. The party leader cannot be kicked unless it’s a unanimous vote by all 4 party members.

4. If the party leader leaves the party, leadership is automatically transferred to the next earliest person who entered the instance.

Joining into a dungeon using the LFG should work like joining in with a party: Players should have the option to deny or accept them.

johnsonade.9547:

I think a decent idea would be forming dungeon sellers guilds where you’d have to have membership to that guild in order to purchase a run. You can even advertise the guilds you’re okay with in the LFG dungeon path description. Legit path buyers and sellers could do business that way and strangers would be turned away. If anyone that was a member tried to exploit, I think more documentation could be kept manually and they could be kicked and remembered as exploiters. It would reduce a lot of through traffic of random dungeon buyers, but the ones that are on that list would be considered reputable. The only cost is giving up a guild slot of the 5 you can be a member of. It’s all I got until Anet implements a more realistic system.

Such guild already exists. We already have around 80 members, most of which are sellers.
PM me in game.

Typical MMO community. People complain about instance owners and how them leaving kicks everyone out, especially when the dungeon is almost done. Here comes Anet with a fix and we get these incredibly stupid topics over and over.

How many times do they have to say the same thing. Selling isn’t banned, but it’s not supported in any way. Anet simply does not care if seller’s dungeon’s are stolen. It’s not rocket science. There’s no hidden meaning. They dont. Kitten. Care. That being said, they DO care about normal, non-selling groups getting hijacked. Nothing has changed. Report it.

Griefers exist in MMO’s. That’s not even remotely new either so why is everyone acting like GW2 is the first MMO to have people griefing like this. Again, report it and move on. Granted, needing more than 2 for a kick is definitely needed, but until that can be implemented, take Chris’ advice:

“Dungeon selling is not something that will be officially supported. Listing a group on the LFG tool is opening it up to a public realm and you do so at your own risk.”

Don’t twist his words into something they aren’t. Opening your group via LFG leaves it open to some jerk or griefer(s) joining. You’re inviting people you don’t know to join your group. Of course there’s risk involved, whether your selling or not.

People complain because devs could have implemented a system which would both reduce griefing and support selling.

Instead of the current system which just seems to promote griefing.

The thing is, if a system prevents griefing or makes it more difficult to pull off, it will inherently support selling.

If they say they’re upgrading their system, I would expect improvement, not retrogression.

This feature pack seemed much more boring than the last, and as such I didn’t feel too excited for it, but I never expected it to make me want to play even less.

We really need a 3 vote kick, but the response here is pretty disheartening since griefers can take advantage of this pretty easily even outside of selling dungeons.

Created a hotw “p1 melee troll” today, when we got to troll I los’ed him under the roof of the gate, then got kicked out of my own dungeon. yay! i guess they really wanted to range him.

Thankfully the second group went fine. Please give me back my ability to own dungeons ty.

Wethospu.6437:

People complain because devs could have implemented a system which would both reduce griefing and support selling.

Instead of the current system which just seems to promote griefing.

Why on earth would developers support sellers? Sellers make no good for community. Part of the reason why it is so hard to find a group for Arah, especially for a new/semi-experienced player, is because all ‘veterans’ are too busy selling instead of helping other people. Frankly, you can make more money in Dry Top or whatever the best open world faming spot is right now. Hell yeah, I even make more gold in EOTM!

p.s. I agree on the grieving part thou Arah sellers are the true grievers

Skady.5916:

Wethospu.6437:

People complain because devs could have implemented a system which would both reduce griefing and support selling.

Instead of the current system which just seems to promote griefing.

Why on earth would developers support sellers? Sellers make no good for community. Part of the reason why it is so hard to find a group for Arah, especially for a new/semi-experienced player, is because all ‘veterans’ are too busy selling instead of helping other people. Frankly, you can make more money in Dry Top or whatever the best open world faming spot is right now. Hell yeah, I even make more gold in EOTM!

p.s. I agree on the grieving part thou Arah sellers are the true grievers

Is this a joke? Arah seller are offering a service to people who don’t want to bother with the path, but want the armors/dungeon master. It’s totally legit and you even see some people asking for seller in LFG sometime.

About Dry Top, seller actually enjoy the difficulty of solo’ing path rather than spamming 1 on guardian with staff, anyway selling is dying because of people like you. And there is no way you are making 30 gold an hour doing open world PvE on average, maybe in a lucky hour but the average is closer to 10-12 gold.

Trice.4598:

About Dry Top, seller actually enjoy the difficulty of solo’ing path rather than spamming 1 on guardian with staff, anyway selling is dying because of people like you.

Hey man, I never grieved anyone selling Arah. Are you sure you wanna put a blame on me? Any proof that i grieved somebody?

If you guys enjoying difficulty and challenge so much – how about u let other people join your group and maybe learn something from you? Instead you just scamming community and getting a feeling of a false accomplishment

+1 wouldnt read again

Skady.5916:

Trice.4598:

About Dry Top, seller actually enjoy the difficulty of solo’ing path rather than spamming 1 on guardian with staff, anyway selling is dying because of people like you.

Hey man, I never grieved anyone selling Arah. Are you sure you wanna put a blame on me? Any proof that i grieved somebody?

If you guys enjoying difficulty and challenge so much – how about u let other people join your group and maybe learn something from you? Instead you just scamming community and getting a feeling of a false accomplishment

I wasn’t assuming you were grieving Arah, I was talking about your hostility toward Dungeon Sellers. Accusing sellers of scamming is bold and wrong, this game does not reward players skills which is why they end up capitalizing the only thing they enjoy.

Also, most dungeon seller stop after a while and become one of those “mentor” you see in the [Noob] guild, they aren’t the vicious greedy person you think they are.

Don’t like it? Don’t buy from them, make your own group, why should good players be carrying people who don’t want to bother with learning the game? Any Arah party fills up in 2 minutes if you make one, Seller aren’t killing the LFG tool.

P.S. I know my post sound rude but that’s not my intention, you are entitled to your opinion, I am just trying to explain mine. I also don’t sell dungeon path anymore, everyday around reset, you will see my LFG for free arah path 1-2-3 sometime 4, but getting kicked out of a path I’m trying to give out for free is just upsetting.

Skady.5916:

Wethospu.6437:

People complain because devs could have implemented a system which would both reduce griefing and support selling.

Instead of the current system which just seems to promote griefing.

Why on earth would developers support sellers? Sellers make no good for community. Part of the reason why it is so hard to find a group for Arah, especially for a new/semi-experienced player, is because all ‘veterans’ are too busy selling instead of helping other people. Frankly, you can make more money in Dry Top or whatever the best open world faming spot is right now. Hell yeah, I even make more gold in EOTM!

p.s. I agree on the grieving part thou Arah sellers are the true grievers

Why would veterans need to help other people? Do they owe something to you?

How dare those toxic people do what they want to do, HOW DARE THEY! Everyone should be carrying other people instead of trying to get something for themselves, those greedy kittens.

Sellers are the only entitled and rude people on this forum. Its not like other people"dont bother with learning", the thing is that 95%+ groups for Arah are selling paths. Thats why 95% of population are still not experienced with dungeon, and that leads you to a false feeling that you “carrying everyone”.

Just stop selling, start runnign it legit and in a couple of months this dungeon will be as common as CoE

I’m so done here can any mod kittening ban me from this god forsaken forum already.

Apparently I’m entitled and rude

Also I heard 95% of all terrorists eat bread. Pls do something against bread.

Skady.5916:

Sellers are the only entitled and rude people on this forum. Its not like other people"dont bother with learning", the thing is that 95%+ groups for Arah are selling paths. Thats why 95% of population are still not experienced with dungeon, and that leads you to a false feeling that you “carrying everyone”.

Just stop selling, start runnign it legit and in a couple of months this dungeon will be as common as CoE

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Weekend-Arah-Tour-NA-Sept-20-21/first#post4424176

Been doing these for a while first with Ivan now with Jiyn. Through them I’ve met at least a dozen people to run Arah with and I’ve been getting steadily better at it.

You can make excuses or you can be proactive. For the longest time I didn’t run Arah much at all because I simply was too lazy to step up and really learn it. Now I can run it. I’m far from perfect but it is what it is and I’m constantly improving.

The reason it’s not like COE is because it’s not like COE. Never once have I gotten stuck in COE like I’ve gotten stuck on Lupi. Skips either need a thief/engi to make them easy, a mesmer to portal, or you have to lace up your running shoes nice and tight and learn to make it without an easy mode. That’s not something you have in COE.

Unfortunately, yes. You guys are rude

If you step out for a sec from the middle of the universe you can see how entitled and rude you sound.

- you are absolutely 100% sure that you are god’s gift to video game just based on the fact that you do duo warrior Arah paths
- you are absolutely sure that all other people “do not want to learn” and “only want to be carried”

I remember the days when CoE was a very hard place for a PUG group and only my guild/friend group could actually stack and dodge subject alpha. Now every single PUG group (with rare exception i believe) can do that. I remember the days when AC was incredibly hard and Kholer seemed to be a ridiculous boss to fight – now even you mom learnt how to dodge his pull and boss actually dies in 5-10 sec with all the ascended zerker gear.

The only real problem with Arah – lack of knowledge. Sellers are not helping community in any way. I hope developers won’t specifically support sellers or promote dungeon selling.

Skady.5916:

- you are absolutely 100% sure that you are god’s gift to video game just based on the fact that you do duo warrior Arah paths
- you are absolutely sure that all other people “do not want to learn” and “only want to be carried”

- you are absolutely 100% sure that a group of players that enjoy what they do (which doesn’t match with your own personal and selfish feelings) are entiteled and rude, just based on the fact that they are better than you.
- you are absolutely sure that this group of players conciders that other people “do not want to learn” and “only want to be carried”, despite the fact that there are being weekly arah runs, a whole [Noob] community to teach those willing the ways of dungeons and several guides and stickies made by those “entitled and rude” players for the sake of improving the community.

Read twice before you respond.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Skady.5916:

- you are absolutely 100% sure that you are god’s gift to video game just based on the fact that you do duo warrior Arah paths
- you are absolutely sure that all other people “do not want to learn” and “only want to be carried”

- you are absolutely 100% sure that a group of players that enjoy what they do (which doesn’t match with your own personal and selfish feelings) are entiteled and rude, just based on the fact that they are better than you.
- you are absolutely sure that this group of players conciders that other people “do not want to learn” and “only want to be carried”, despite the fact that there are being weekly arah runs, a whole [Noob] community to teach those willing the ways of dungeons and several guides and stickies made by those “entitled and rude” players for the sake of improving the community.

Read twice before you respond.

People kittenponded and defended dungeon selling so far did not sound like people who enjoy doing what they doing. Most of them sound toxic and tired from the game. I do understand the lack of challenging content and dungeon updates, but its not the reason to bash all other players who do not belong to “dungeon sellers” category.

And yes, most of the dungeon sellers on this forum absolutely sure that “they carry” and “others dont want to learn” – just re-read Trice.4598 posts. Oh well they already edited

Skady.5916:

The only real problem with Arah – lack of knowledge. Sellers are not helping community in any way. I hope developers won’t specifically support sellers or promote dungeon selling.

What stops you creating your own groups and start learning the paths? Why do you need someone to hold your hand? Do you think first persons, who soloed paths had someone telling them how to do it?

kuittaa.7360:

Skady.5916:

The only real problem with Arah – lack of knowledge. Sellers are not helping community in any way. I hope developers won’t specifically support sellers or promote dungeon selling.

What stops you creating your own groups and start learning the paths? Why do you need someone to hold your hand? Do you think first persons, who soloed paths had someone telling them how to do it?

Nothing stops me from doing that – I myself run Arah every day since Sept update, mostly with pugs.
And i dont need anyone to hold my hand.
And all your questions are irrelevant to my point.

Which is the following: dungeon selling makes no good for community. You can advocate for ‘party leader’ feature and honestly you will get my support on that, but advocating for dungeon selling is very selfish.
I can repeat it in every post to make it crystal clear.

You guys should stop attacking me personally. It wont work – I am immune to trolls.

Skady.5916:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Skady.5916:

- you are absolutely 100% sure that you are god’s gift to video game just based on the fact that you do duo warrior Arah paths
- you are absolutely sure that all other people “do not want to learn” and “only want to be carried”

- you are absolutely 100% sure that a group of players that enjoy what they do (which doesn’t match with your own personal and selfish feelings) are entiteled and rude, just based on the fact that they are better than you.
- you are absolutely sure that this group of players conciders that other people “do not want to learn” and “only want to be carried”, despite the fact that there are being weekly arah runs, a whole [Noob] community to teach those willing the ways of dungeons and several guides and stickies made by those “entitled and rude” players for the sake of improving the community.

Read twice before you respond.

People kittenponded and defended dungeon selling so far did not sound like people who enjoy doing what they doing. Most of them sound toxic and tired from the game. I do understand the lack of challenging content and dungeon updates, but its not the reason to bash all other players who do not belong to “dungeon sellers” category.

And yes, most of the dungeon sellers on this forum absolutely sure that “they carry” and “others dont want to learn” – just re-read Trice.4598 posts. Oh well they already edited

Way to twist what I said and make me sound like a kitten, I edited my post to add, didn’t remove anything. I did not say everyone wants to be carried and don’t want to learn, I said I wouldn’t carry people who don’t want to bother learning, those who do, watch video, create lfg and don’t come acting like white knight on the forum like the kitten you are.

Edit : We did not bash people who aren’t dungeon seller, you’re the one who comes here and act like they are the worst kind of people just for trying to get some gold for the hard work they put into solo’ing a dungeon path.

Makes no good for the community? What about those people asking for other to sell them path? Sellers don’t go out forcing people to buy their path, everyone can make a group, come on forum and ask for help if they want but those who wants to buy path shouldn’t be able to?

What about the dungeon selling community?

I don’t mind dungeon selling.

All I want to understand is this: " Sellers make no good for community "
I believe its false, but I want to understand why you think this

Sarahfull.4930:

I don’t mind dungeon selling.

All I want to understand is this: " Sellers make no good for community "
I believe its false, but I want to understand why you think this

Dungeon selling is OK when its limited to a certain niche. Its a nice convenience feature for those with money to spare (myself included btw).

But if I open Arah LFG and all I see is 5 dungeon selling groups + Arah story group – this is NOT OK. This means that majority of players cannot experience content even if they want to.

And that exactly how it was up until the recent patch.

Skady.5916:

This means that majority of players cannot experience content even if they want to.

Have you asked yourself if the “majority of players” wants to truly experience this content? If one wants to really do something, one finds a way. My first run in Arah was on path 3 and we spent nearly 4 hours inside but we eventually did it and this didn’t put me off, and yes, I put up my own LFG (wow, hax!). The fact that people don’t do something because of this and that doesn’t mean they cannon do it.

I also don’t do PvP and WvW but this doesn’t mean there’s problem with those, right?

Skady.5916:

But if I open Arah LFG and all I see is 5 dungeon selling groups + Arah story group – this is NOT OK.

Oh! It sounds like you don’t know this, but did you know you can make your own groups too? It’s true! You can make your very own group for Arah – or any other dungeon in the game.

Here’s how:

• Go to the Gates of Arah, enter it and select (Explorable Mode).
• Open up your Contacts & LFG window.
• Go to the second tab (from the top) for the Looking for Group [BETA] tab.
• Go to the DUNGEONS tab.
• Select Arah.
• At the bottom-right, you will see a button: Advertise Your Party.
• In the description, make sure you concisely describe the group and its objective.

It’s that easy! The only hitch is that you must have defeated Zhaitan in the Personal Story in order to unlock Arah (Explorable Mode).

Nokaru.7831:

• Go to the Gates of Arah, enter it and select (Explorable Mode).

Exploit.

You guys also forgot, the reason all you see is people selling is because it takes 10-20 minutes to fill a seller party while people who makes party get filled in 1-5 minutes. There is more PHIW group than sellers

As I stated before, I run Arah on a daily basis “making my own group”. Go ahead and re-read that part. I have no problems finding a group for any dungeon as of now.

You guys keep attacking me instead of answering to my statement (I can repeat it again, since you keep missing it for some weird reason).

Dungeon selling makes no good for community. It promotes exclusive gameplay and limits people’s experience.

Trice.4598:

I’m so done here can any mod kittening ban me from this god forsaken forum already.

I feel the same. Waiting for the sweet, sweet release of a forum ban. But I don’t want to just ask for it — I want to earn it :-P

So much hostility from people who can’t stay out of other’s business.

Skady, if you don’t like selling, don’t buy or sell. Easy as that. You’ve said yourself that you “make your own group” and don’t have trouble filling when you do. People who want to run the dungeon may still do so, and the sellers can just sit in their instances, waiting for buyers. No harm, no foul. Live and let live.

So what’s the problem?

dlonie.6547:

Trice.4598:

I’m so done here can any mod kittening ban me from this god forsaken forum already.

I feel the same. Waiting for the sweet, sweet release of a forum ban. But I don’t want to just ask for it — I want to earn it :-P

So much hostility from people who can’t stay out of other’s business.

Skady, if you don’t like selling, don’t buy or sell. Easy as that. You’ve said yourself that you “make your own group” and don’t have trouble filling when you do. People who want to run the dungeon may still do so, and the sellers can just sit in their instances, waiting for buyers. No harm, no foul.

So what’s the problem?

The problem is that dungeon sellers behave like a typical vocal minority demanding features just for themselves, ignoring everyone else.

This very thread is the quintessence of what “dungeon selling community” truly is.

- we cannot sell dungeons safely anymore! Waaaaaaa
- give me party leader so i can kick everyone! Waaaaa
- or I rage quit! Waaaaaaa

You could just not respond to or read posts from skady if it’s annoying you that much.

Skady.5916:

dlonie.6547:

Trice.4598:

I’m so done here can any mod kittening ban me from this god forsaken forum already.

I feel the same. Waiting for the sweet, sweet release of a forum ban. But I don’t want to just ask for it — I want to earn it :-P

So much hostility from people who can’t stay out of other’s business.

Skady, if you don’t like selling, don’t buy or sell. Easy as that. You’ve said yourself that you “make your own group” and don’t have trouble filling when you do. People who want to run the dungeon may still do so, and the sellers can just sit in their instances, waiting for buyers. No harm, no foul.

So what’s the problem?

The problem is that dungeon sellers behave like a typical vocal minority demanding features just for themselves, ignoring everyone else.

This very thread is the quintessence of what “dungeon selling community” truly is.

- we cannot sell dungeons safely anymore! Waaaaaaa
- give me party leader so i can kick everyone! Waaaaa
- or I rage quit! Waaaaaaa

Point is that strong leadership would solve problems for everyone.

- your instance can’t get hijacked (people kicking you at end)
- your group, your rules (for example if you start “all clear” or “beginner” group you won’t get kicked by elitists)
- leader going afk could be simply solved by requiring 4 votes to kick the leader
- while also supporting selling

Skady.5916:

Sarahfull.4930:

I don’t mind dungeon selling.

All I want to understand is this: " Sellers make no good for community "
I believe its false, but I want to understand why you think this

Dungeon selling is OK when its limited to a certain niche. Its a nice convenience feature for those with money to spare (myself included btw).

But if I open Arah LFG and all I see is 5 dungeon selling groups + Arah story group – this is NOT OK. This means that majority of players cannot experience content even if they want to.

And that exactly how it was up until the recent patch.

I don’t mean to move your words around and/or play with them or anything although to better understand it you are saying:

" The reason its not ok is because majority of players cannot experience content even if they want to"

so your trying to say there isn’t as much choice?

like a few people doing path 1, some others doing path 2, etc, etc? so you would have a choice in joining a path you don’t know and/or understand to experience it and work on it?

I guess you could mean, inexperience players might feel like they have to buy into it?

with all the selling as you say, people might think that you can do story but the other paths have to be brought because of [reason]. And they may never find out what the reason is, even if its stupid?

again, please don’t take this the wrong way, just trying to understand

Skady.5916:

dlonie.6547:

Trice.4598:

I’m so done here can any mod kittening ban me from this god forsaken forum already.

I feel the same. Waiting for the sweet, sweet release of a forum ban. But I don’t want to just ask for it — I want to earn it :-P

So much hostility from people who can’t stay out of other’s business.

Skady, if you don’t like selling, don’t buy or sell. Easy as that. You’ve said yourself that you “make your own group” and don’t have trouble filling when you do. People who want to run the dungeon may still do so, and the sellers can just sit in their instances, waiting for buyers. No harm, no foul.

So what’s the problem?

The problem is that dungeon sellers behave like a typical vocal minority demanding features just for themselves, ignoring everyone else.

This very thread is the quintessence of what “dungeon selling community” truly is.

- we cannot sell dungeons safely anymore! Waaaaaaa
- give me party leader so i can kick everyone! Waaaaa
- or I rage quit! Waaaaaaa

Nice. I’ve learned that it’s a pointless exercise to argue with someone who is this immature, so please ignore my previous posts and enjoy your day.

Sarahfull.4930:

again, please don’t take this the wrong way, just trying to understand

All there is to understand is that he’s decided that every dungeon seller is the same toxic caricature that he’s created in his head, and that a broken system shouldn’t be fixed because people he doesn’t like would get some benefit from it.

If I were you, I’d save my time and energy for something with a chance of being productive.

Skady.5916:

Which is the following: dungeon selling makes no good for community. You can advocate for ‘party leader’ feature and honestly you will get my support on that, but advocating for dungeon selling is very selfish.
I can repeat it in every post to make it crystal clear.

You guys should stop attacking me personally. It wont work – I am immune to trolls.

By “the community” you mean only people like you, right? Because there is plenty of buyers (some prefer to play wvw or PvP ONLY) but they want the tokens or achievements.
I have had people buying paths from me on a regular basis. They do not wish to do the dungeon. All they want is either tokens, achievements or leveling their alts. But then you show up and say that they have no right to do this. Its you who is being self righteous and wanting them to have no access to that content.

Nerevaarr.2840:

Skady.5916:

Which is the following: dungeon selling makes no good for community. You can advocate for ‘party leader’ feature and honestly you will get my support on that, but advocating for dungeon selling is very selfish.
I can repeat it in every post to make it crystal clear.

You guys should stop attacking me personally. It wont work – I am immune to trolls.

By “the community” you mean only people like you, right? Because there is plenty of buyers (some prefer to play wvw or PvP ONLY) but they want the tokens or achievements.
I have had people buying paths from me on a regular basis. They do not wish to do the dungeon. All they want is either tokens, achievements or leveling their alts. But then you show up and say that they have no right to do this. Its you who is being self righteous and wanting them to have no access to that content.

I never said you have no rights to sell dungeons. What I am saying is that you hardly have any right to demand some feature to be developed to support dungeon selling.

You have people wanting to buy dungeon paths from you? Awesome! Why you people crying on forums about hijacking your dungeons then? What you do and what you using LFG for is basically a scamming.