Guild Wars 2

Skady.5916:

As I stated before, I run Arah on a daily basis “making my own group”. Go ahead and re-read that part. I have no problems finding a group for any dungeon as of now.

You guys keep attacking me instead of answering to my statement (I can repeat it again, since you keep missing it for some weird reason).

Dungeon selling makes no good for community. It promotes exclusive gameplay and limits people’s experience.

Skady.5916:

Sarahfull.4930:

I don’t mind dungeon selling.

All I want to understand is this: " Sellers make no good for community "
I believe its false, but I want to understand why you think this

Dungeon selling is OK when its limited to a certain niche. Its a nice convenience feature for those with money to spare (myself included btw).

But if I open Arah LFG and all I see is 5 dungeon selling groups + Arah story group – this is NOT OK. This means that majority of players cannot experience content even if they want to.

And that exactly how it was up until the recent patch.

Hmm.

Troll much?

Skady.5916:

I never said you have no rights to sell dungeons. What I am saying is that you hardly have any right to demand some feature to be developed to support dungeon selling.

You have people wanting to buy dungeon paths from you? Awesome! Why you people crying on forums about hijacking your dungeons then? What you do and what you using LFG for is basically a scamming.

This is not just about selling. People have talked about kicking before many times. However now, even the opener and the author of LFG is not safe anymore.
And scamming? How the hell are sellers scamming anyone? Do you even know what that word means?

Don’t pull it out.

You know what will happen.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Mentors-Noob/first

Noob guild to get a mentor to teach you

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Weekend-Arah-Tour-NA-Sept-20-21/first#post4424176

Weekly Arah Mentor tours.

Again, players that want to learn have the help they need if they are willing to put in just a little effort to join up with either of these groups… or find their own mentors (which there are plenty).

Those that sell and those that buy are both getting what they want. The only people complaining are those outside of either of those groups. And I’d have to say, just calm down and mind your own business. Want to run Arah, make a group or join up with one if there is one in LFG. Nothing is stopping you.

Quit being whiteknights and trying to conjure up a problem when none exists. Again, I’ll point out, Noob Guild, and Jiyn’s (formerly Ivan’s) weekly arah Mentor tours. If you want to learn run with these people, it’s helped me a ton.

Michael Henninger.7451:

Hi guys!

I wanted to give you a quick rundown on what involvement Customer Support takes regarding Dungeons; specifically where trading wealth is involved. Let’s look at the two parts of this:

1. We do not reimburse wealth lost to other players for any reason if it is outside of the Black Lion Trading Post. This is because Customer Support can not duplicate wealth. With the volume of requests coming in we alone would damage the economy if we were to restore wealth lost when trading takes place.

2. We terminate accounts permanently for defrauding (scamming). If you are found to make a deal to trade (say, sword for gold) and not hold up your end we will investigate and terminate. If you are the victim of a scam you should submit a support ticket and provide what you lost and the time and date as accurately as you recall. This is usually all we need to research the event but we will ask you if we need more info. You do have a right to know the outcome of these investigations but be aware these take us a few days to resolve.

Please be sure to include the full details of your trade via game chat (any channel is fine) in Guild Wars 2
We absolutely must be able to see the deal being made to find guilt. Do not use voice chat software or other means to communicate while making a sale/trade.

Again; this will help us terminate accounts that are cheating other players but will not result in a recovery of your losses.

Please understand that you are allowed to trade outside of the BLTP – but you will not receive replacements for lost items or gold. The same goes for selling dungeon runs. CS will not suspend or terminate you for selling runs. We will, however, take action if you take payment and not fulfill your end of the bargain.

I’ll watch this thread for questions and clarify where needed. Thanks!

I think this belongs in Guild Wars 2 discussion/Black Lion Trading Co…
Or this: Find a dungeon seller, send gold, invite friends and kick the original path seller, report him/her for scam and get the account banned…

Thanks Michael for the clarification!!

I know there has been alot of confusion regarding dungeon selling and trading outside of the TP.

I hope this clears this up! At least it did for me.

Thanks again!

Skady.5916:

Nerevaarr.2840:

Skady.5916:

Which is the following: dungeon selling makes no good for community. You can advocate for ‘party leader’ feature and honestly you will get my support on that, but advocating for dungeon selling is very selfish.
I can repeat it in every post to make it crystal clear.

You guys should stop attacking me personally. It wont work – I am immune to trolls.

By “the community” you mean only people like you, right? Because there is plenty of buyers (some prefer to play wvw or PvP ONLY) but they want the tokens or achievements.
I have had people buying paths from me on a regular basis. They do not wish to do the dungeon. All they want is either tokens, achievements or leveling their alts. But then you show up and say that they have no right to do this. Its you who is being self righteous and wanting them to have no access to that content.

I never said you have no rights to sell dungeons. What I am saying is that you hardly have any right to demand some feature to be developed to support dungeon selling.

You have people wanting to buy dungeon paths from you? Awesome! Why you people crying on forums about hijacking your dungeons then? What you do and what you using LFG for is basically a scamming.

Either its too early in the morning or you are just holding a grugde.

I take it you or a friend were hurt/scamed and/or your holding on to a bad stigma about dungeon sellers.

Sarah

Thanks for your posts, Michael Henninger. I appreciate you speaking in a way covers a lot of bases and leaves little room for interpretation. This helps a lot when arguing with other players on what is not allowed/not allowed, and what is punishable.

+1 to what Tom said =)

It would help to know what action is taken against griefers who steal instances. In my mind, its such an obvious kitten-move that it would be worth of a ban first time around.

So say two buddies join a group on the LFG that is at the last boss, kick everyone out, then give the slots away to their friends.

1) What would be done to these players?
2) Would it matter if it was their first time?
3) Would it matter if the instance that they stole was listed by a seller?

If you could answer those three questions, I think it would clear a lot of things up. We’ve heard vague, sometimes conflicting answers to these, and it’d be great to have an clear-cut response.

Edit: One more thing, it’s great that the conversation is happening. I’d suggest including the players in such conversations. The current mess with LFG griefing was caused by keeping a conversation about fixing instance ownership behind closed doors. The exact issue that is happening now was brought up by players several times prior to the last patch — if we’d be included in some discussion on the topic, we can help catch these issues before they’re made live. Not to mention that this would help repair the lack of faith and trust issues that exist between the dungeon community and the development team. Just a thought.

Michael Henninger.7451:

ArenaNet agrees that communication is key. We’re diving into the forums a lot more than in the past with more freedom to candidly discuss our thought process. I can say that, for me, I’ve already had something brought to my attention today that I hadn’t realized was an issue.

Thanks to everyone that is constructively involved!

I’ve noticed that you guys are all over the forums since the feature patch hit. That plus the Adopt-A-Dev event is creating a great level of communication.

Woohoo! A fast, direct reply! =D

Thanks a ton, that really helps clear things up.

You’ll be the new Hrouda if you keep this up (meaning players will like you…not that you’ll get laid off…)

Michael Henninger.7451:

Thanks to everyone that is constructively involved!

It’s easier to be constructive when we know our voices are being heard. Keep moving in this direction

What happens if the kicker joins the LFG but stays outside of the dungeon? Because sometimes I like to give spots away on my dungeon runs and I’ve gotten kicked and lost my instance multiple times. In my case the kicker did not steal the instance, but rather removed it from LFG.

TheFamster.7806:

I think this belongs in Guild Wars 2 discussion/Black Lion Trading Co…
Or this: Find a dungeon seller, send gold, invite friends and kick the original path seller, report him/her for scam and get the account banned…

This one gives me nightmares

I am so confused. Is Michael now saying the complete opposite of what Chris said before? And wasn’t what Chris said a complete 180 from what they originally announced? Am I reading things wrong? What is going on?

Can Lilith come back now?

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

I am so confused. Is Michael now saying the complete opposite of what Chris said before? And wasn’t what Chris said a complete 180 from what they originally announced? Am I reading things wrong? What is going on?

Can Lilith come back now?

In my opinion Chris was being careful, he didn’t want people to think they will be actively supporting dungeon sellers since it’s not something they want to be part of. However from what micheal said, griefing is griefing and no matter what, will be punished.

Thanks Micheal, this is basically what this thread was all about, we were not asking for anything special, we just wanted dungeon sellers to be treated like any other person. I know the change affect more than just the dungeon sellers but they are probably the one being targeted the most.

And no I doubt Lilith is coming anytime soon, trust was broken, it will take time and/or boredom lol

Great news. Good thing Ive started to stream “every” run I do.

DonQuack.9025:

Great news. Good thing Ive started to stream “every” run I do.

Must be nice having a good connection, right?

:/

or a good computer for that matter. Mine screams at me when i try to play on mid-settings.

:*(

:( Perhaps fraps first couple o minutes? I guess this also depends on system performance and drive space. Otherwise screenshot like its the fappening? except you know with good looking people.

DonQuack.9025:

:( Perhaps fraps first couple o minutes? I guess this also depends on system performance and drive space. Otherwise screenshot like its the fappening? except you know with good looking people.

Fraps makes my game run with 5 fps while soloing with lowest settings :/

Michael Henninger.7451:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

I am so confused. Is Michael now saying the complete opposite of what Chris said before? And wasn’t what Chris said a complete 180 from what they originally announced? Am I reading things wrong? What is going on?

Chris Cleary.8017:

Dungeon selling is not something that will be officially supported. Listing a group on the LFG tool is opening it up to a public realm and you do so at your own risk.

Customer Service will not be able to support any interactions that involves group formation politics.

Yeah, Chris and I talked about this with others in the studio and we realized the wording just wasn’t sufficient to communicate our actual stance. Chris was referring to the agreements part – where we can’t replace losses. It wasn’t his intention to cloud the issue.

Basically, you steal, cheat, or be a general baddie and I’m coming with my Account-Focused Stun-Lock Cannon.

(Can someone please make me the aforementioned rifle for my engi GM toon? That’d be swell. I’d like purple lightning or fire, please.)

I like you and you’ve earned my respect.

I just want you to note this – I was planning on making an epic quit video this weekend wherein I would delete all my characters, my legendary, and give away all my things. But because of this post I am going to hold off.

Another way to put it – you may have just retained a future paying customer.

Thank you for your communication and your willingness to do what, in my view, is the right thing.

Cheers!

Gkitten Michael! I might have gotten some free loot but now I get nothing.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

I just want you to note this – I was planning on making an epic quit video this weekend wherein I would delete all my characters, my legendary, and give away all my things. But because of this post I am going to hold off.

No no no! All is vain yadda yadda, please send all your stuff to the Armory (mailing address: Zaxares.5419).

But on a serious note, thanks for the clarification, Michael. Basically, guys, while dungeon selling is not something ANet endorses, that still doesn’t mean that you can be a skritthead to sellers/buyers. Don’t troll/grief people, period.

Michael Henninger.7451:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

I am so confused. Is Michael now saying the complete opposite of what Chris said before? And wasn’t what Chris said a complete 180 from what they originally announced? Am I reading things wrong? What is going on?

Chris Cleary.8017:

Dungeon selling is not something that will be officially supported. Listing a group on the LFG tool is opening it up to a public realm and you do so at your own risk.

Customer Service will not be able to support any interactions that involves group formation politics.

Yeah, Chris and I talked about this with others in the studio and we realized the wording just wasn’t sufficient to communicate our actual stance. Chris was referring to the agreements part – where we can’t replace losses. It wasn’t his intention to cloud the issue.

Basically, you steal, cheat, or be a general baddie and I’m coming with my Account-Focused Stun-Lock Cannon.

(Can someone please make me the aforementioned rifle for my engi GM toon? That’d be swell. I’d like purple lightning or fire, please.)

Hello Michael, should we be creating a support ticket for every violator we encounter, or is reporting the violators with the in-game tool “lfg abuse” sufficient to get them on your Stun-Lock Cannon crosshair?

Oooh, is that how it works? Interesting.

It really feels good to have someone come in here and treat us like we are important players, with the 9 months of silence we got in this sub forum, this is a relieve. Micheal and Chris, what you have done may look little in your eyes but you have save the little trust I had left in GW2, and I am probably not the only one.

This may not be the content we are waiting for, but for the first time I feel like Anet hasn’t completely abandoned us.

Michael, you have just done a LOT to restore my faith in Anet, thank you.

Michael Henninger.7451:

The in-game tool is immediate whereas tickets take time. Go with the in-game report every time. It basically calls a GM to the location. You can’t see ‘em; but they’re there.

I hope I haven’t been followed to closely by invisible GMs… 0.0

Thanks for taking your time to clarify this, and reassure us that things are being done!! I really means alot!! You guys rock!

The last page on this thread made my day, thank you so much for your feedback, Michael! \o/

And aww, kitten, we missed the free loot. :<

Hi!

I normally don’t post on the forums but I today got scammed together with a friend. We were doing CoF path 2. Three other people joined us, kicked us out right before the end boss and then sold the dungeon for 2g/slot. Got all their names on a screenshot.

Now the BEST part of this: one of the guys (edited) has already been reported in this same topic here also for scamming. It’s clearly that he is doing this MULTIPLE times.

I reported him using the ingame feature for scamming. Please Arenanet, do something about this guy AND this problem. It’s not fun to put effort in a dungeon and then get kicked so other guys can profit from it.

Thanks.

Robbe,

Sorry that you had to experience this but you might want to remove the name of that guy from your post. Naming and shaming is not tolerable.

Removed the name, in the first few posts his name is also visible though.

Thanks for the feedback

To be honest, I believe those guys deserve no better than naming and shaming on forums and in game but oh, well, the rules say we cant

I’m assuming you mean this post?

Heh, did you read the reply the other guy got from CS? I don’t think they had a clue what the issue was. Their replies had nothing to do with the issue at hand, they just replied with generic responses about dungeon mechanics and ANet’s stance on selling. Nothing about kicking/griefing.

Michael, can you look into that, and make sure that the CS folks understand this problem? If we’re reporting these guys to CS reps that don’t pass the reports along to the correct folks and instead dismiss them as complains about dungeon mechanics, it’s a rather pointless exercise.

I wonder if part of the confusion with Chris’s earlier comments and Michael’s initial post is that players don’t have a better report option here than “Scamming”. It makes it sounds like the sellers were upset at losing gold, when in reality the problem is that they’re upset about having their time wasted.

That’s why Chris’s posts caused so much trouble — he was saying “We can’t give you the money you lost by getting kicked” but in the context it came across as “We don’t care if you get griefed while selling.”

I just have to say this…Michael, your upfrontedness ( yeah I know that is not a word) in making Anet’s stance clear here makes me almost giddy with happiness. I’d offer you my firstborn quaggan baby in return – but I don’t plan on having any.

Hm, interesting. Thank you, Michael Henninger. You’ve just turned a topic that prompted reactions ranging from sad/disappointed headshakes to ourtright rage into something worthwhile again.
Also, and more importantly, thank you for correcting what we thaught after initial responses to be Arenanet’s stance on this topic and pointing out what your actual intentions/reactions are.

Michael Henninger.7451:

The in-game tool is immediate whereas tickets take time. Go with the in-game report every time. It basically calls a GM to the location. You can’t see ‘em; but they’re there.

….I think I’m going to be more self conscious in the game now….

Michael Henninger.7451:

- #1 & #2
1st offense would be suspension.
2nd time would be bye-bye.
– #3
It wouldn’t matter outside of doing bad things. A seller being involved is irrelevant to the outcome of our investigation.

Also – any time an account has multiple notes for being a ‘bad seed’ we take those other things into account and make decisions on a case by case basis. That’s why you hear us spout that phrase so often.

Edit for formatting.

I understand this is the new policy. But can anyone (dev or player who has reported someone) confirm whether it’s currently being applied or whether its something that’s coming in the future?

Michael Henninger.7451:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

I am so confused. Is Michael now saying the complete opposite of what Chris said before? And wasn’t what Chris said a complete 180 from what they originally announced? Am I reading things wrong? What is going on?

Chris Cleary.8017:

Dungeon selling is not something that will be officially supported. Listing a group on the LFG tool is opening it up to a public realm and you do so at your own risk.

Customer Service will not be able to support any interactions that involves group formation politics.

Yeah, Chris and I talked about this with others in the studio and we realized the wording just wasn’t sufficient to communicate our actual stance. Chris was referring to the agreements part – where we can’t replace losses. It wasn’t his intention to cloud the issue.

Basically, you steal, cheat, or be a general baddie and I’m coming with my Account-Focused Stun-Lock Cannon.

(Can someone please make me the aforementioned rifle for my engi GM toon? That’d be swell. I’d like purple lightning or fire, please.)

Any chance you guys going to do this too WvW too and get rid of siege trolls exploiters and hackers? Would be very appreciated and makes the game a tad better then it is now. THanks in advance!

I was pretty surprised that the instance owner flag didn’t just pass to the next member of the party, by chronological order. Having no owner was bound to be an issue when you can vote people out of the instance.

I like that they started with a hands-off policy, but there does need to be more logging for reporting.

I was pretty surprised that the instance owner flag didn’t just pass to the next member of the party, by chronological order. Having no owner was bound to be an issue when you can vote people out of the instance.

I like that they started with a hands-off policy, but there does need to be more logging for reporting.