Guild Wars 2

Still dont understand why people think theres no support or control in the meta. We use it more than the average player. Because we actually know how it works. We understand defiant and when to interrupt bosses and when to strip those defiant stacks. We understand when to position mobs. We understand when to soft cc and kite. We understand when to use debuffs and buffs to reduce risk and speed up kill times.

Im not just making this up. I run full meta but I wont shy away from using a hammer on my warrior in fractals in certain situations. There are plenty of places where you should adapt. The problem comes that in regular dungeons its too easy to keep pretty much the optimal dps stuff and make it work.

spoj.9672:

The problem comes that in regular dungeons its too easy to keep pretty much the optimal dps stuff and make it work.

+1 on this. It’s the fact that full zerker is too easy that makes every other setup so obsolete in comparison. I don’t mind it being the most efficient way to do things; but it just also needs to be the most punishing way to do things to compensate.

Fenrir.3609:

DogCompany.1062:

Based on your statement, Guild Wars 2 has created every class as a Hybrid-Type to where each and every character has it’s own support capabilities. Yet, with all the flexibilities of each class, only one profession has found to be useful regardless of the stats designed for several variations of professions that are not used by, I would assume, a large majority of players. Now, why do you think that is?

What?

Basically, Guild Wars 2 created classes to where they are flexible to any profession they want to choose from, Healer/Tank/Berserker/etc, but non-Berserker-Type Gear/Items have been shunned and are rarely used in the game. That’s what I’m saying, in short.

Black Box.9312:

spoj.9672:

The problem comes that in regular dungeons its too easy to keep pretty much the optimal dps stuff and make it work.

+1 on this. It’s the fact that full zerker is too easy that makes every other setup so obsolete in comparison. I don’t mind it being the most efficient way to do things; but it just also needs to be the most punishing way to do things to compensate.

I should clarify. Its too easy. But its still easier to tank in clerics. And its only made easy because experienced players can make it work with utilities rather than being force to change to another weapon.

It’s only easy once you’re well experienced at the content. If you think you can get some random baddie and stick a meta build on them and expect them to burn bosses down you’re gravely mistaken.

And the thing is, being able to breeze content once you become experienced at it is a natural progression and shouldn’t be something we’re trying to fix.

MastaNeenja.1537:

Exactly people don’t ask to change the rules of golf (or any other random sport) they either learn and get better or they find something different to pursue.

Wait a sec. Golf is a 800 years old sport that change over the course of his existence. The sport was perfected as technology, culture and needed evolve with it. The Golf have a goal and the sport evolve to get the best game possible around that goal.

Now GW2 is a 1 years old game that is not perfected at all yet. Direct Damage DPS and only Direct Damage DPS was not intended by Anet i’m sure. Why put Healing Power in the game if its useless? Why put Condition Damage if it only viable in sPvP and Roaming? Why Clerics? Why put these things in the game if there were INTENDED to be freaking bad? Anet was only trolling? Or its a better explanation that they screw up a couple things that they didn’t intended. After all they had to balance 3 Game modes at the same time, which is not that easy.

Dual.8953:

The core concept of the pve in this game is…

1. Everyone does dps.
2. Everyone provides support (differing in capabilities by class)
3. No one is forced to choose between DPS or Support.
4. If you choose to neglect DPS (clerics Boon duration mesmer) you are suboptimal. If you choose to ignore Support (5 sig warrior no banners in group) you are suboptimal. Everyone is at their best when they maximize their DPS while bringing as much party support as they are capable of.

You are 100% right. This is how the game should be played now. But since this wasn’t intended by Anet. They can either embrace, eliminate the useless stuff, refocusing the diverse build around that, etc.

Or (and they seem to go more toward that options, only at a really slop pace) they can rethink how support, condition damage, etc work right now in this game and change some mechanics of the game so it get back as it was intended.

Personnally, i think that the first option would be safer. I like the current gameplay and the first option would only reinforce it while giving more depth in it.

The Second option would be more risky since they can really kitten the game pretty bad. But it’s correctly done, this could be make a better game.

Fror.2163:

To make things actually enjoyable, ArenaNet should simply remove non-Berserker gear from the game. Then the only “progression” left to people is to get more skills (as in play skills, not game skills).

Then we’ll get this kind of conversations:

- “But I can’t do that boss”
- “Well, try again until you get it”

- “But I play how I want”
- “You want to play bad?”

- “But I like healing people, I see I help them”
- “Actually you don’t because dungeon forum”

- “But I need to tank because the noobs need help”
- “They need to play better. The sooner they get good, the better.”

Then we’ll all be fine because people will know how to play, and GW2 will have become a better community \o/

I agree and appreciate your response. Berserker-Types have conquered all other stats of Gear/Items that people can simply ignore, Cleric’s/Shaman/Rabid/etc, all the other variations of stats in the game. With the amount of combinations you can make in the game regarding stats, they are all simply useless based on the Dungeons and the needlessness of other diverse professions.

Bread.7516:

DogCompany.1062:

Bread.7516:

Why people find it boring is not really due to the gear/build sets, it’s more of the boss encounters and AI lacking variety in their movesets and behaviour.

I appreciate your comment and this comment definitely stands out. My question for you would be; would you appreciate/enjoy a randomization of the Champions/Bosses forms of attacks instead of a continuous cycle of repetitive movements?

To answer that yes, action games have a certain RNG to their attacks but also have some sort of AI to detect player position and which set of attacks to execute. If you notice sometimes in action games, bosses just walk, wait, and see what you do before executing an attack/defense.

That is not all that is lacking, bosses in gw2 are not only dumb, they have no movement. Example they don’t back step / side step, they don’t step-in (leap/rush attacks to close gaps or to get out of danger zones), there are not many aoe “screw off” attacks or defensive abilities. Distancing and zoning should be something a player needs to be aware of (besides max cleave range).

Also to compensate for the slow attacks on bosses, most of their hits need to be Launch/Stagger attacks – a common trait seen in action games. This could be the answer to player’s complaints about 1-shots; skilled players can stay within proper zone, less skilled have trouble staying in it and have more difficulty. Zoning may also potentially be an actual solution to their ranged problem in pve encounters depending on how they balance out skills – don’t count on this.

The reason people like lupi so much is because he is probably one of the few bosses that his move sets emulate an action game boss but without the AI (he’s like action game boss ‘light-version’). Games like these need to be intuitive, if a boss gets a buff – an icon below their HP bar is not an acceptable indicator (make your animation team work).

Also try CoF p3 boss full melee, he’s sort of fun-ish if not bugged to cancel out is invul stages(imo instead of invul he should just immediately stomp from point A to B – no one likes waiting). You will see a change on people’s fighting patterns in gw2 – it’s more reactive.

Most appreciate your comment and using CoF Path 3, final boss, is a great example. When coming into contact with the boss, he has the desire to attack almost everyone in the ring. I think that boss is definitely fun and restricts the “stack and DPS” method most people use in Dungeons. I would like to see some Dungeon bosses to be considered a standard for other bosses. Again, I appreciate your response.

spoj.9672:

Still dont understand why people think theres no support or control in the meta. We use it more than the average player. Because we actually know how it works. We understand defiant and when to interrupt bosses and when to strip those defiant stacks. We understand when to position mobs. We understand when to soft cc and kite. We understand when to use debuffs and buffs to reduce risk and speed up kill times.

Im not just making this up. I run full meta but I wont shy away from using a hammer on my warrior in fractals in certain situations. There are plenty of places where you should adapt. The problem comes that in regular dungeons its too easy to keep pretty much the optimal dps stuff and make it work.

People watch record run videos and see big numbers and stuff dying fast . That’s all they know, they don’t know what else is going on so they just assume all it takes is dps and nothing else.

This same topic is going in General Discussion with even more people that don’t understand the game.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/LFG-tool-zerk-nerf

Thaddeus.4891:

MastaNeenja.1537:

Exactly people don’t ask to change the rules of golf (or any other random sport) they either learn and get better or they find something different to pursue.

Wait a sec. Golf is a 800 years old sport that change over the course of his existence. The sport was perfected as technology, culture and needed evolve with it. The Golf have a goal and the sport evolve to get the best game possible around that goal.

Now GW2 is a 1 years old game that is not perfected at all yet. Direct Damage DPS and only Direct Damage DPS was not intended by Anet i’m sure. Why put Healing Power in the game if its useless? Why put Condition Damage if it only viable in sPvP and Roaming? Why Clerics? Why put these things in the game if there were INTENDED to be freaking bad? Anet was only trolling? Or its a better explanation that they screw up a couple things that they didn’t intended. After all they had to balance 3 Game modes at the same time, which is not that easy.

The point being that both games have rules and you have to follow them, you don’t change them to suit some players, but maybe golf wasn’t the best example as I compared sports to a video game.

And yes you’ve basically answered your own question, there’s 3 modes of play. You can run full zerk in other modes but it’s much more difficult. The reason why all armor types are available in PVE is because it is the testing grounds to learn how to play in. The better you get at using skills and utilities to mitigate damage the less you need healing, toughness and Vit, that’s when you start moving into stats that give you more damage.

You know you can trait to deal damage, and run a more tank set such as Knights or Soldiers. When you master your profession you’re going to understand what utilities and skills work best in what situations. A good player doesn’t set a skill bar or weapon equips and then leave it that way. Eventually though you should move away from soldiers or clerics and into knights then eventually berserker.

Healing power, healing really only affects the caster for the most part, their heal skill. Now I know that professions have heal skills that can affect their allies but healing usually doesn’t scale so great with those skills, there are a few exemptions. Why is that? Why are there no healing skills that target a player specifically? Why do you have to go so far into healing before you start seeing results? This is to discourage heal bot (trinity play) There are no monks, or healing classes, but there are Guardians, do you now why they are called Guardians because they prevent (guard against) damage, not repair it.

DogCompany.1062:

Fenrir.3609:

DogCompany.1062:

Based on your statement, Guild Wars 2 has created every class as a Hybrid-Type to where each and every character has it’s own support capabilities. Yet, with all the flexibilities of each class, only one profession has found to be useful regardless of the stats designed for several variations of professions that are not used by, I would assume, a large majority of players. Now, why do you think that is?

What?

Basically, Guild Wars 2 created classes to where they are flexible to any profession they want to choose from, Healer/Tank/Berserker/etc, but non-Berserker-Type Gear/Items have been shunned and are rarely used in the game. That’s what I’m saying, in short.

1. There is no such clear delineation as you are suggesting.
2. You can encompass support and damage at the same time, because support is not tied to stats per say. Which is a fantastic thing.
3. Non zerk builds are used all the time, you realise there is content outside of dungeons right? They are used in lots of dungeon pugs, by lots of OW pve players, by lots of wvw players and by lots of spvp players. Do you think spvp warriors use the full glass dungeon meta or something?
4. If people want to be part of the speed clear meta, they should adopt the meta, learn that support is not tied to “muh toughness”, understand that heal spamming from the back is not needed and get on with it.

I just don’t understand the lolfacetank/healspammer mentality. We have a system which enables the likes of guardians the ability to provide awesome support and great damage. We have a system which allows them to wear PVT et al to learn on and then zerk as they improve their skills. We have a system which sees more tanky/condi/cc builds being the meta in the competitive aspects of the game (wvw/spvp) and also being able to do all the pve content. And yet that is not enough for some… They want to take their over 9000 toughness, no damage, heal spammer into elite dungeon speed run groups. I mean, really?

In short:

A. Zerker groups do use support.
B. More tanky specs are used extensively throughout the game.
C. Going back to the dark days of dedicated tanks and no damage heal spammers is not a good idea.
D. Complaining that a no damage facetank isn’t part of the speed run meta is a bit daft.

Play how you want, as long as you have the skills to back yourself up. I went ahead and asked a friend to solo Queen Spider in his own way. We all know the person is wearing zerk, and never an advocate for stacking :p He used his traits and utilities to their fullest potential. What I’m trying to say here is:

-The game is not that easy for an average player. It seems easy only to some who actually have perfected their skills and knowledge.
- Saying that dungeons are easy with berserker gears alone is completely delusional.
- Cleric or any supportive build/gears make dungeons easier, but zerker makes completing them faster.
- If you don’t want to follow the meta and want to enjoy the challenge, then don’t do it.
- If you want the game to change to encourage more support/control, chances are zerkers still triumph, because everyone has access to healing and utilities, remember?
- The only rational thing to do is playing the way you want but not messing around with others.

Disclaimer: I purposely died so that Sandy could solo. And yes, it was my monumental effort to help clear the arena of spider hatchlings and gargoyles. This picture is by no means an indication of my skills :’p

Iris Ng.9845:

Play how you want, as long as you have the skills to back yourself up. I went ahead and asked a friend to solo Queen Spider in his own way. We all know the person is wearing zerk, and never an advocate for stacking :p He used his traits and utilities to their fullest potential. What I’m trying to say here is:

-The game is not that easy for an average player. It seems easy only to some who actually have perfected their skills and knowledge.
- Saying that dungeons are easy with berserker gears alone is completely delusional.
- Cleric or any supportive build/gears make dungeons easier, but zerker makes completing them faster.
- If you don’t want to follow the meta and want to enjoy the challenge, then don’t do it.
- If you want the game to change to encourage more support/control, chances are zerkers still triumph, because everyone has access to healing and utilities, remember?
- The only rational thing to do is playing the way you want but not messing around with others.

Disclaimer: I purposely died so that Sandy could solo. And yes, it was my monumental effort to help clear the arena of spider hatchlings and gargoyles. This picture is by no means an indication of my skills :’p

You needed a PVT to scrape your lame zerker butt off the floor!

spoj.9672:

Black Box.9312:

spoj.9672:

The problem comes that in regular dungeons its too easy to keep pretty much the optimal dps stuff and make it work.

+1 on this. It’s the fact that full zerker is too easy that makes every other setup so obsolete in comparison. I don’t mind it being the most efficient way to do things; but it just also needs to be the most punishing way to do things to compensate.

I should clarify. Its too easy. But its still easier to tank in clerics. And its only made easy because experienced players can make it work with utilities rather than being force to change to another weapon.

The point I was trying to make is that it shouldn’t be easy, even for the most experienced players, to run a full glass party. Perhaps ‘impossible’ might be a bit too far on the other side of the spectrum, but it should never be easier to run with 5 zerkers than with 1 or more non zerkers in a party.

Black Box.9312:

The point I was trying to make is that it shouldn’t be easy, even for the most experienced players, to run a full glass party. Perhaps ‘impossible’ might be a bit too far on the other side of the spectrum, but it should never be easier to run with 5 zerkers than with 1 or more non zerkers in a party.

Well it not easier to run 5 full DPS compare to non full DPS party. At some point my guild had 2 new member and we did Arah with them. They were two friend using their WvW build in PvE. One was tanky and the other was an ’’healer’’. They simply tank Lupicus, while the rest of us DPS him. It was funny to watch as i can’t last that long against Lupicus attack. The fight was freaking long, but it was the easier Lupi run i had in a long time. In one pug, I had a guy that tank Alpha that didn’t dodge or die once. You can see Arah Cleric run with the guys disabling the dodge button. Its easier without zerker. Zerker can go seriously wrong if you do too many mistake or if you don’t have the skill to back it up. But Zerker is way faster and if you know what you are doing, it become easy enough.

laharl.8435:

Iris Ng.9845:

Play how you want, as long as you have the skills to back yourself up. I went ahead and asked a friend to solo Queen Spider in his own way. We all know the person is wearing zerk, and never an advocate for stacking :p He used his traits and utilities to their fullest potential. What I’m trying to say here is:

-The game is not that easy for an average player. It seems easy only to some who actually have perfected their skills and knowledge.
- Saying that dungeons are easy with berserker gears alone is completely delusional.
- Cleric or any supportive build/gears make dungeons easier, but zerker makes completing them faster.
- If you don’t want to follow the meta and want to enjoy the challenge, then don’t do it.
- If you want the game to change to encourage more support/control, chances are zerkers still triumph, because everyone has access to healing and utilities, remember?
- The only rational thing to do is playing the way you want but not messing around with others.

Disclaimer: I purposely died so that Sandy could solo. And yes, it was my monumental effort to help clear the arena of spider hatchlings and gargoyles. This picture is by no means an indication of my skills :’p

You needed a PVT to scrape your lame zerker butt off the floor!

But I had to clear the gargoyles :’(

I’m posting in a zerk thread!

On Topic:
@OP stop trying to tell me how to play. I play how I want with the people I want…

Full Zeker SUCKS. In my dream world you would have to mixmatch get to get an optimum dps output, and you would do better (sustained DPS vs theoretical DPS) if you added some survivability…. Just like in diablo 2, where you would add Attack Speed and/or Cast Speed until you hit the correct breakpoints, then either DEX to block or go without it altogether (adding VIT instead), and get DPS from +skills on gear. Also you had to maintain crushing blow on melee classes, and you had critical on gear / skills as well.

So there was no “dps gear” but the dps gear was a mixmatch of properties you had to balance, AND you got to be tanky with character points (STR for gear, rest DEX/VIT or VIT).

GW2 is “full zerk/scholar GG” which imho makes it boring and uninspired (it doesnt help that there’s 1 or 2 builds per class that are optimal and the rest is crap).

Maybe if they capped crit chance / crit damage and gave power diminishing returns the game would be better, so the best dps would be a mix of cavaliers / valk / zerker / zealot instead. But i guess i ask too much.

Dual.8953:

Like change healing power to boon power, and make is so base boon effects signicantly weaker, and make control duration scale with something like toughness?
Of course depending on this is handled, it could outright nuke the current dungeon meta, but in a meta where only one spec stands far beyond the others in terms of potential, is it really a bad thing to enforce the concept of giving up something to specialize in something?

Why toughness? It’s completely irrational, it should be power instead. After all, if you are stronger, you should launch your enemies further or stun/daze them for longer amount of time. If you are increase your toughness and hit like a wet noodle your controls should suck.

Wharrgarbl.9263:

Maybe if they capped crit chance / crit damage and gave power diminishing returns the game would be better, so the best dps would be a mix of cavaliers / valk / zerker / zealot instead. But i guess i ask too much.

And along with a cap to crit chance/crit damage and giving power diminishing returns, they could put diminishing returns on vit, toughness, healing power. Celestial new meta!

Master Yi.6129:

Simple answer: most enemies do so much damage it makes defensive stats mostly useless. It is a “kill them fast or get killed” situation. There is also a thing called “dodging” that exists in the game, where a timely dodge nullifies all damage that would otherwise kill you.

This pretty much answers the thread.

haviz.1340:

Dual.8953:

Like change healing power to boon power, and make is so base boon effects signicantly weaker, and make control duration scale with something like toughness?
Of course depending on this is handled, it could outright nuke the current dungeon meta, but in a meta where only one spec stands far beyond the others in terms of potential, is it really a bad thing to enforce the concept of giving up something to specialize in something?

Why toughness? It’s completely irrational, it should be power instead. After all, if you are stronger, you should launch your enemies further or stun/daze them for longer amount of time. If you are increase your toughness and hit like a wet noodle your controls should suck.

Two reasons.
1) We’re aiming to make a variety of specs desirable, as power is already highly valued, it doesn’t need anything extra.
2) If you read the control page on the wiki, it states that control was born of breaking the tank role down to it’s most fundamental elements. The ability to divert enemies from attacking the rest of the party.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Nike

I want to subscribe to your newsletter

Wharrgarbl.9263:

Stuff about D2 that isn’t true.

Sure, sure. Sounds about right.

Dual.8953:

Two reasons.
1) We’re aiming to make a variety of specs desirable, as power is already highly valued, it doesn’t need anything extra.
2) If you read the control page on the wiki, it states that control was born of breaking the tank role down to it’s most fundamental elements. The ability to divert enemies from attacking the rest of the party.

Toughness is already too strong, obligatory in 2/3 of game modes. It doesn’t need to increase one more thing. And even if so, why not vitality? Or maybe let new ferocity increase endurance regeneration (of course after decreasing base level)? Precision increase moving speed?

Plus, controls do not divert enemies, they stop them.

Bread.7516:

That is not all that is lacking, bosses in gw2 are not only dumb, they have no movement. Example they don’t back step / side step, they don’t step-in (leap/rush attacks to close gaps or to get out of danger zones), there are not many aoe “screw off” attacks or defensive abilities. Distancing and zoning should be something a player needs to be aware of (besides max cleave range).

Kholer would like to have a talk with you.
Can we please make a petition to ask for more quick, mobile and evasive bosses, with a few rapid attacks and deadly, telegraphed attacks? Like, super OP buffed results of Lupi mating with Kholer?
I’d like to see that.
No, not Kholer mating with Lupi, I mean that kind of bosses.
Ugh.
Other than that, another pointless thread visited, check.

I was thinking of Fyonna.

deSade.9437:

Bread.7516:

That is not all that is lacking, bosses in gw2 are not only dumb, they have no movement. Example they don’t back step / side step, they don’t step-in (leap/rush attacks to close gaps or to get out of danger zones), there are not many aoe “screw off” attacks or defensive abilities. Distancing and zoning should be something a player needs to be aware of (besides max cleave range).

Kholer would like to have a talk with you.
Can we please make a petition to ask for more quick, mobile and evasive bosses, with a few rapid attacks and deadly, telegraphed attacks? Like, super OP buffed results of Lupi mating with Kholer?
I’d like to see that.
No, not Kholer mating with Lupi, I mean that kind of bosses.
Ugh.
Other than that, another pointless thread visited, check.

But he’s quite dumb, that’s just ranger s/d skills being spammed. He didn’t backstep due to being mobbed and as soon as he uses hornet sting he immediately uses monarch’s leap.

That’s quite the problem with bosses, their AI is mainly – see enemy>chase enemy>spam skills on cooldown.

haviz.1340:

Dual.8953:

Two reasons.
1) We’re aiming to make a variety of specs desirable, as power is already highly valued, it doesn’t need anything extra.
2) If you read the control page on the wiki, it states that control was born of breaking the tank role down to it’s most fundamental elements. The ability to divert enemies from attacking the rest of the party.

Toughness is already too strong, obligatory in 2/3 of game modes. It doesn’t need to increase one more thing. And even if so, why not vitality? Or maybe let new ferocity increase endurance regeneration (of course after decreasing base level)? Precision increase moving speed?

Plus, controls do not divert enemies, they stop them.

I considered vitality, it may be a fair compromise considering how little love it gets among the player base. As for the other two, feels an bit weird. (I’ll admit, the boon potency and control potency ideas feel a bit off too because of how they’d complicate things) Crit and Prec are in the same boat as Power, highly sought after. Also altering endurance and movement speed feels like over complicating things.

Also, Control and Tanks both stop the enemy from hitting your allies. That’s it in a nutshell.

Mai Trin? Mossman? Archdiviner?

But yeah, bosses dont move at all.

the problem is that damage affect the mobs equally and scale with skills (power+ precision+ crit damage, condition damage+condition duration).

CC is very weak, due to defiant mechanics on bosses and very low duration’s on trash.
defensive traits have very little synergy and healing power scales poorly.

so you cant CC one mobs and focus the other.
you cant outheal mob damage even with full cleric.
all you can do is hit and dodge. who is the master of hit and dodge? yes, berzerker.

-it would be better if after implementing ferocity, they would double the base duration of all undamaging CC (cripple, immobilize, chill, stun)
introduce gear with condition duration as primary stat.

- make healing power affected by precision and crit just like damage.

- make all veteran mobs dodge occasionally and move out of AOE.
- make all veteran mobs use hard CC (knockdown, blowout etc) and soft CC ( cripple, immobilize, chill) and use more boons.
yes, that would make them annoying. but will make dungeons better.

Goes on the pvp forums, complains about cc spam, bunker meta and condies spam.
Goes on the pve forums, complains about a lack of cc spam, a lack of bunker meta and a lack of condies spam.

Lalangamena.3694:

the problem is that damage affect the mobs equally and scale with skills (power+ precision+ crit damage, condition damage+condition duration).

CC is very weak, due to defiant mechanics on bosses and very low duration’s on trash.
defensive traits have very little synergy and healing power scales poorly.

so you cant CC one mobs and focus the other.
you cant outheal mob damage even with full cleric.
all you can do is hit and dodge. who is the master of hit and dodge? yes, berzerker.

-it would be better if after implementing ferocity, they would double the base duration of all undamaging CC (cripple, immobilize, chill, stun)
introduce gear with condition duration as primary stat.

- make healing power affected by precision and crit just like damage.

- make all veteran mobs dodge occasionally and move out of AOE.
- make all veteran mobs use hard CC (knockdown, blowout etc) and soft CC ( cripple, immobilize, chill) and use more boons.
yes, that would make them annoying. but will make dungeons better.

I’d argue that CC is actually pretty effective. For example if you run a hammer guardian build you put a great sword on swap and you can pull mobs a lot more effectively

Painbow.6059:

I’d argue that CC is actually pretty effective. For example if you run a hammer guardian build you put a great sword on swap and you can pull mobs a lot more effectively

I would say this is more of an interrupt than a serious CC.
for example: elementalist want to put frozen ground on group of incoming mobs.
the skill is 40 seconds cooldown for 2 seconds of chill… i hope you understand what i am trying to say here…

haviz.1340:

Goes on the pvp forums, complains about cc spam, bunker meta and condies spam.
Goes on the pve forums, complains about a lack of cc spam, a lack of bunker meta and a lack of condies spam.

yes indeed; but the solution is to make the mobs more closed to players in AI and stats or split the game modes.

also: I am aware that 10 seconds frozen will be OP for PVP. so lets just split skills for PVE because 2 seconds effect on 40 seconds cooldown is a SAD joke.

Bread.7516:

deSade.9437:

Bread.7516:

That is not all that is lacking, bosses in gw2 are not only dumb, they have no movement. Example they don’t back step / side step, they don’t step-in (leap/rush attacks to close gaps or to get out of danger zones), there are not many aoe “screw off” attacks or defensive abilities. Distancing and zoning should be something a player needs to be aware of (besides max cleave range).

Kholer would like to have a talk with you.
Can we please make a petition to ask for more quick, mobile and evasive bosses, with a few rapid attacks and deadly, telegraphed attacks? Like, super OP buffed results of Lupi mating with Kholer?
I’d like to see that.
No, not Kholer mating with Lupi, I mean that kind of bosses.
Ugh.
Other than that, another pointless thread visited, check.

But he’s quite dumb, that’s just ranger s/d skills being spammed. He didn’t backstep due to being mobbed and as soon as he uses hornet sting he immediately uses monarch’s leap.

That’s quite the problem with bosses, their AI is mainly – see enemy>chase enemy>spam skills on cooldown.

Never call Kholer dumb, or I’ll have you sliced for dinner.
With tomatoes and origano.
… Seriously now, the ai of bosses, trash mobs, npcs and pets alike is so incredibly bad I think it’s beyond saving. I saw what anet did to “fix” some “problems” we currently have: they tweaked stat numbers.
By lowering dps, in a sense, it’s like you increased the hp of those gigantic hp bags, a.k.a. bosses in gw2.
So…
Since I wisely don’t trust them into doing any meaningful and well thought-out change, I limit myself to asking for more mobile and evasive bosses, yes, even if they’re dumb and spam skills randomly. AT LEAST I HAVE TO MOVE AN INCH TO FOLLOW THEM AROUND, when we’re not making them get stuck in a corner, of course. I don’t want every boss to be like Aldus, kitty me right?
And if you look at this thread and the countless others made before it… I mean…
Meh.
We will never have nice things.

deSade.9437:

We will never have nice things.

no..no we can’t…

on the bright side, dark souls 2 coming up.

Yeah, but I wanted this game. Well, what this game could be. I’ve been waiting for it for so long.
So much potential, man. So much potential wasted.
But we have flutes. And quaggan hats. And zergs.

Wharrgarbl.9263:

Full Zeker SUCKS. In my dream world you would have to mixmatch get to get an optimum dps output, and you would do better (sustained DPS vs theoretical DPS) if you added some survivability…. Just like in diablo 2, where you would add Attack Speed and/or Cast Speed until you hit the correct breakpoints, then either DEX to block or go without it altogether (adding VIT instead), and get DPS from +skills on gear. Also you had to maintain crushing blow on melee classes, and you had critical on gear / skills as well.

So there was no “dps gear” but the dps gear was a mixmatch of properties you had to balance, AND you got to be tanky with character points (STR for gear, rest DEX/VIT or VIT).

GW2 is “full zerk/scholar GG” which imho makes it boring and uninspired (it doesnt help that there’s 1 or 2 builds per class that are optimal and the rest is crap).

Maybe if they capped crit chance / crit damage and gave power diminishing returns the game would be better, so the best dps would be a mix of cavaliers / valk / zerker / zealot instead. But i guess i ask too much.

And everyone will be in full zerk until they hit those cap and stack P/T/V for the rest of the slots

That only achieves forcing runs to slow down and the same gear restrictions for min-max with the added bonus of not rewarding people who can survive without the Toughness/Vitality crutch from gear.

People will still min-max gear and you or someone else will complain about that setup too.

Lalangamena.3694:

also: I am aware that 10 seconds frozen will be OP for PVP. so lets just split skills for PVE because 2 seconds effect on 40 seconds cooldown is a SAD joke.

It already is 10 seconds, 5 pulses applying 2s chill each.

deSade.9437:

Yeah, but I wanted this game. Well, what this game could be. I’ve been waiting for it for so long.
So much potential, man. So much potential wasted.
But we have flutes. And quaggan hats. And zergs.

I know break ups are tough, but we all have to power through it and move on.

lol

Izaya.2906:

And everyone will be in full zerk until they hit those cap and stack P/T/V for the rest of the slots

That only achieves forcing runs to slow down and the same gear restrictions for min-max with the added bonus of not rewarding people who can survive without the Toughness/Vitality crutch from gear.

People will still min-max gear and you or someone else will complain about that setup too.

Have you actually played diablo 2? Who said anything about slowing runs?

In my scenario you’d hit 95% critical chance, 100% crit damage (50 base and 50 from gear) and a healthy ammount of power (2.5k soft cap?). The rest of your gear would be devoted to mf / boon duration / vitality / toughness / condition or whatever you want.

This means different META builds would use different gear set mixes to achieve the same “target” numbers.
Dungeon completion time is tied to mob/boss life and its easily tweakeable to last whatever anet decides it has to.

Of course the itemization doesnt really support what im saying (having 2 stat gears with a high and low stats would be much better imho. And no its not a nerf just increase them by the 3rd stat ammount so they give the same stat pts as now)

Clarification: go check gear on diablo 2. It allows plenty of customization, minmaxing and theorycrafting to obtain maximum damage output, and it STILL gives you wiggle room to add defensive / utility.

On gw2 is zerker scholar all slots, all classes. Thats LAME.

I think it’s easier to understand that if you want to do maximum amount of damage you should invest in maximum-amount-of-damage gear than to tweak your gear all the time because of meta changes or simple retrait like in case of guardian builds (fotm, dungs). Do you really want to constantly farm ascended gear? That’s lame.

The idea that you have to be in clerics gear to fill the “support” role is laughable. I had no idea that I needed clerics gear to run skills such as wall of reflect, purging flames and retreat as a guardian. It’s not the gear you wear but the skills you bring, and the individual skill that you have.

A zerker provides more support to the party through might stacking, fury, reflects, aegis, water fields etc. than any clerics bear bow ever will.

Wharrgarbl.9263:

Clarification: go check gear on diablo 2. It allows plenty of customization, minmaxing and theorycrafting to obtain maximum damage output, and it STILL gives you wiggle room to add defensive / utility.

On gw2 is zerker scholar all slots, all classes. Thats LAME.

In GW2 you add defense and utility through traits and skills. The guardian meta builds aren’t balls deep in DPS, they actually sacrifice some for utility.

I also don’t see how having to combine different stat gear for optimum efficiency makes things any different, you’re reaching the same goal, it’s just your gear will have different prefixes.

How much do we have to pay CC danicia in order to get this thread trash canned?

Dual.8953:

1) Glass Cannoning is supposed to be high risk, high reward. The fact that most parties run full zerk, to the point that you’re seen as a burden for not following suit, suggests that the risk factor isn’t there. Increasing the difficulty will do wonders, it’ll increase the importance of support, in increasing the difficulty they could rework control’s effectiveness, and if they make it harder to melee burn mobs down, ranged will become valuable again. To make things more clear, Zerker parties would still be possible, it’d just require much more skill to run one without wiping. Ideally most parties will consist of 1-3 dps and 2 other specs to support them.
2) Rather not this one, it’d just some abitrary challenge that’d artifcally make taking someone with a different spec important.
3) Dungeons are the way they are now because they’re became farmable. Farming them is what has caused the player base’s tactics to develop so rapidly that an optimum strategy was found. Farming is what drives this need for efficiency, and has driven the need to create universally optimum tactic. With farming gone, only people who actually want to do the content for fun will remain, the farmers will move onto the next farmable thing. That said this is probably the laziest, and least helpful solution.

1) Wrong- there’s a HIGH risk involved for NEW players. The whole concept of high-risk / high-reward is balanced for people that DON’T know the content by heart.
It WAS a VERY risky trick before everyone knew the dungeons.

How would YOU go about doing any dungeon path/ new content in full zerker gear if you didn’t know the run? Didn’t think you’d do too great.
Also – it’s risky if people don’t know the game, the dodges, their builds, etc.

If you think making mobs HARDER to burn down will do anything to improve the current state of the dungeons you are wrong. People want to get them done FASTER not longer.

Also ranged is valuable – for people who can’t dodge and melee.
When this game came out there were a TON of threads about melee being suicide.
What has changed? People got good at it. Now we can melee and have threads about ranged being useless.

Also 1-3 DPS and 2 support sounds a lot like a trinity set-up to me. Why not just have 5 DPS that know what they’re doing that can support each other as well?
Add more support oriented ( aka dedicated support player) if the others are bad and can’t handle their game – but don’t punish good players.

3)The only reason cof P1 farm was nerfed and other dungeon rewards were buffed is because Anet wanted the FARMERS from Cof P1 to go do OTHER dungeons as well.
If they didn’t want the farmers in other dungeons ( farming them) they wouldn’t have changed COF P1 and you’d have exactly what you want.
ONE dungeon that all the farmers farm for farm. And THE REST of the dungeons that nobody did except the " people who do it for fun " aka that dozen or so players.
I know how few did dungeons before there was any profit in them. I needed odd tokens for armor from like CM or TA and NOBODY – literally nobody did those. I had to ask friends to come specifically.

Also – moving the farmers isn’t easy – people are complaining about champ trains also.
Let’s face it – the MAJORITY of players here play to farm.
Legendary items, ascended gear, vanity gear – it all costs a TON of money.
The primary goal of ANY GW2 player is to make cash, with a few exceptions. So yeah – alienate the farming players, because they’re not like 80% of the player base.

DogCompany.1062:

Harper.4173:

Dungeons were designed to be medium-hard to complete ON release. Not 1+ years after.
You want harder content? Go do fractals at level 30+.

Dungeons are designed in such a way that NO MATTER HOW BAD YOU ARE you will still complete it if you keep trying. That means that a VERY GOOD GROUP will breeze right on through. Regardless of gear – but zerker will make it the fastest.

I am familiar with high level Fractals and my experience tells me that Fractals should be the standard of any Dungeon. In short, shouldn’t Arena Net consider creating, or reconfiguring, more difficult Dungeons in order to avoid such repetitions?

No. Because dungeons are for farming at the moment. Make them more difficult and the majority of players who run them will quit doing them.

Lalangamena.3694:

the problem is that damage affect the mobs equally and scale with skills (power+ precision+ crit damage, condition damage+condition duration).

CC is very weak, due to defiant mechanics on bosses and very low duration’s on trash.
defensive traits have very little synergy and healing power scales poorly.

so you cant CC one mobs and focus the other.
you cant outheal mob damage even with full cleric.
all you can do is hit and dodge. who is the master of hit and dodge? yes, berzerker.

-it would be better if after implementing ferocity, they would double the base duration of all undamaging CC (cripple, immobilize, chill, stun)
introduce gear with condition duration as primary stat.

- make healing power affected by precision and crit just like damage.

- make all veteran mobs dodge occasionally and move out of AOE.
- make all veteran mobs use hard CC (knockdown, blowout etc) and soft CC ( cripple, immobilize, chill) and use more boons.
yes, that would make them annoying. but will make dungeons better.

I appreciate your comments and I would like to see more bosses in Guild Wars 2 become more challenging. As I mentioned regarding Lupicus, Arah Dungeon, become an excellent standard for other bosses within the Dungeons. Again, most appreciate your solutions in towards this subject.

Harper.4173:

DogCompany.1062:

Harper.4173:

Dungeons were designed to be medium-hard to complete ON release. Not 1+ years after.
You want harder content? Go do fractals at level 30+.

Dungeons are designed in such a way that NO MATTER HOW BAD YOU ARE you will still complete it if you keep trying. That means that a VERY GOOD GROUP will breeze right on through. Regardless of gear – but zerker will make it the fastest.

I am familiar with high level Fractals and my experience tells me that Fractals should be the standard of any Dungeon. In short, shouldn’t Arena Net consider creating, or reconfiguring, more difficult Dungeons in order to avoid such repetitions?

No. Because dungeons are for farming at the moment. Make them more difficult and the majority of players who run them will quit doing them.

In your opinion, would you prefer Dungeons be developed for competitive purposes in the future?