Guild Wars 2

Lexandro.1456:

Cranked my point about the language was simply that people may join that dont speak english to great, or read it to well or at all but could speak it enough on TS to pass muster. You cant guarantee just because you write it its understood, so take a second to talk to them pre-whatever.

PS; And no I never use a bear, under any circumstances whatsoever.

This may sound harsh, but frankly, I don’t care if they can’t read or understand English. There is a reason you can put a description into the lfg system. If you cannot read it, then don’t join assuming it’s a party you are fit for. I don’t always put “speed run, exp only, know the path”, but when I do, I expect that people take the 2 seconds to read it and respect what I am asking for.

Why should anyone have to carry someone threw a dungeon during a speed run? It wouldn’t really be a speed run anyway if you have to stop and explain each and every section of the dungeon now would it? You are basically asking everyone to change the way they spend their in game time to accommodate people who can’t or won’t read the lfg and can’t or won’t respect other people’s time.

I never liked the idea of gear checking or having 500 options in the lfg to weed out only a small subset of people in a group. But, the more I read threads like this, I wish there was a way. Would be nice to put “Zerk only, know the path” and actually get people who fit the description instead of 80% of the time getting a cleric guardian build who spams staff 1 all day and doesn’t know what 1-4 is in coe p1.

I like the idea of being a more inclusive community.

There are days where I am not looking for a speed run that will have the following title in LFG: " X dungeon, X Path, newbies welcome". I have done a couple of those and most have been very kind and listened to what I have to say. Seriously, I have done Arah p3 runs where everyone just keeps wiping at Lupi, and p3 is not a 3-hour long run (Edit: It’s also 3-hour long because I do not rage quit and let the newbies decide when they have had enough).

When, I am posting something like “X Dungeon, X Path, please be experienced”, I probably do not have a lot of playtime available and would like to get things done quickly. I would not be in the mood to explain every single detail to newbies. I think it’s ok to refuse someone as long as it’s done respectfully and politely (something that the gaming community lacks (but that’s a whole other issue).

It has happened that noobs join (reflected by their very low AP). The only thing I ask is that they speak up so I know they are new and can at least go over the essential. It’s pretty easy to spot a newbie in a dungeon… them trying to pass off as “experienced” is just another frustration that I do not need.

I don’t believe I should simply accept everyone for the sake of being “inclusive” but I find time to help the community whenever I can or feel comfortable enough to do so.

I always post for lv 80 only. I just don’t feel like teaching every single group i run with how to do the dungeon. I usually run dungeons daily and if I don’t post lv 80 only, i get half lowbies. After running multiple runs through AC with lowbies and failing miserably, I opted to never run with them again. I don’t want to deal with it anymore.

If you want to learn a dungeon, join a guild and have them teach you. Also, I have 6 lv 80 characters and none of them ran any dungeons until they were lv 80.

I can see where the newbies are coming from on this one but frankly I cannot agree with it. Others have said it more in depth than I will, but basically it boils down to advertising your group. If I advertise a speed clear, and that’s about all I advertise if guild mates don’t want to run or we need a few adds, I expect people to read my LFG for ‘80, experienced, speed run, and zerker’. In my eyes, it is like a contract. Hit ‘join party’ and you agree that everything I put in my LFG describes you. When I find out it does not, I will know you lied to me and I will kick you…simple as that. Not only lied but basically said “screw you, I only want mine and I will waste your time to get it!”

You can argue all you like that lv 80 doesn’t mean skilled or zerker doesn’t mean skilled or that 6000 AP can still be bad. That’s fine but if that’s what I’m looking for, don’t try to deceive me. The ultimate annoyance with these sorts of scrub pugs comes from the way they join the group and try to stay silent and hidden. As if their lack of skill or failure to meet the criteria goes un-noticed.

The irony is that I’m a pretty laid back dude and will usually ask them a few questions in the hopes of keeping them around. As long as they are not very bad players, it won’t be the worst thing. I don’t expect perfection when involving a LFG add anyways. These folks though just stay silent and ignore you. What are you supposed to do?

Maybe I’m taking it too much to heart but it’s like “How dare you?” Haha you know? First they join the group without meeting the criteria. They don’t care about you or your group mission. Then they have the audacity to run mediocre builds, with poor understanding of game mechanics, and all the while stay silent as if they are fooling an expert dungeon player. I know if you have DPS gear on…I see what weapons and utilities you use. If you don’t know what you’re doing, speak up! That’s the only way folks will help you.

If LFG is full of elitists how come I can never find a pug group that is even slightly competent?

Seriously, 99% of this game is casuals who will take anyone if forums and map chat are to be believed, stop throwing fits about the remaining 1%. Worst case if casuals are trying to play at elitist just lie and say you’re an expert in the dungeon and you’re just on an alt account because you already beat the game on your main one, odds are no one else in the party knows what they’re doing anyway and won’t even be able to tell the difference.

I learned all my dungeon paths through guildies. You can’t expect strangers with no relations to you whatsoever to hold your hands on a dungeon run.

I remember when the LFG tool first started I was describing the “be experienced” tag in pretty much all my pickup groups. I want smooth, fast runs. This game is not “fun” for me when I have to babysit and watch 2+ players in a party get wiped just because they refused to stack in AC.

stopped reading at “Berzerker is the best gear”

Urque.6837:

stopped reading at “Berzerker is the best gear”

Well it is…

Urque.6837:

stopped reading at “Berzerker is the best gear”

It is.

Aberrant.6749:

Just take it upon yourself and go and watch a walkthrough video >.>

this actually isnt that great. WoW aside since addons play the game for you I have hardcore raided in Everquest as well as Rift. I could go into a totally new encounter I had never seen before and after 1 attempt I know it like I have done it 100 times. If I watch a video guide I never learn anything and half the time its narrated by some guy who has no clue whats going on. Or the raid/group comp is different. Or the phases of each fight are different. Nothing can prepare you for an encounter better than actually doing the encounter.

Romo.3709:

swiftpaw.6397:

Urque.6837:

stopped reading at “Berzerker is the best gear”

It is.

It is, for you. It’s no good to a player that just started playing and can barely stay alive. You played long enough that you can do what we see as natural and simple dodge at the right time. If the player is inexperienced, they need survivability over pure power. They’ll get to berserker “status” as they progress.

I actually started with berserker gear. I was then told by poor players to run PVT gear, needless to say things were more difficult when I wore this set as there was less dps in parties and thus fights took longer leaving a larger margin for error. People don’t ‘progress’ in pvt gear, they grow stagnant and garner a reliance.

However even even we entertained your notion it wouldn’t change the fact that the gear set is the best, most efficient set.

swiftpaw.6397:

Romo.3709:

swiftpaw.6397:

Urque.6837:

stopped reading at “Berzerker is the best gear”

It is.

It is, for you. It’s no good to a player that just started playing and can barely stay alive. You played long enough that you can do what we see as natural and simple dodge at the right time. If the player is inexperienced, they need survivability over pure power. They’ll get to berserker “status” as they progress.

I actually started with berserker gear. I was then told by poor players to run PVT gear, needless to say things were more difficult when I wore this set as there was less dps in parties and thus fights took longer leaving a larger margin for error. People don’t ‘progress’ in pvt gear, they grow stagnant and garner a reliance.

That worked for you. Great. But if you have a party where two people are competent and rest is learning, it is not the case. Sure the fight will take a minute longer, but I’d rather have one more minute than having to duo the boss since everyone is dead. Let them learn on their own pace.

Romo.3709:

swiftpaw.6397:

However even even we entertained your notion it wouldn’t change the fact that the gear set is the best, most efficient set.

It is not. It’s the best for DPS output, yes, But it is not “best” for every class and every build out there. Have an open mind…

Please show us a more efficient gear set for a class in a dungeon outside of berserk er/assassin’s pieces. The only thing I can think of is adding condition pieces to an engineer. I expect a new meta by tomorrow morning.

Romo.3709:

Let them learn on their own pace.

Simply stating that berserker gear is the better gear set does not somehow result in forcing people to play a certain way. It also has nothing to do with expecting people to use it as their first set. You can take that vendetta elsewhere.

Romo.3709:

Fortus.6175:

Explain to them kindly why berserker is the best gear, why it is necessary…

This is where you lost me and most of the dungeon players out there. YOU are the problem, not people that kick the inexperienced players. Berserker gear can be very good, but only if used properly. To someone that’s learning the game mechanics for the first time, berserker gear is a nail in the coffin. You give them the mindset of “well, if I can’t spike it down, I guess I can’t kill it”. Don’t spread that foolish message…

The quote states that berserker gear is the best and is necessary, not that it should be a starting point. While I agree that a new player would maybe be better served starting off with a set of knights armor, the quote remains true and is a valuable lesson that they should be working towards being able to survive with proper rotation of damage mitigation/evades and not with tankier gear.

boon guardian is a bad spec, condition necro is a bad spec, tank warrior is a bad spec. this is why berserker gear is the best; non-DPS specs are suboptimal in dungeon running and thus bad.

Beserker is not best for being bad.

Romo.3709:

guanlongwucaii.3162:

boon guardian is a bad spec, condition necro is a bad spec, tank warrior is a bad spec. this is why berserker gear is the best; non-DPS specs are suboptimal in dungeon running and thus bad.

It is bad, for you.

It’s bad for everyone.

Romo.3709:

J Eberle.9312:

Romo.3709:

guanlongwucaii.3162:

boon guardian is a bad spec, condition necro is a bad spec, tank warrior is a bad spec. this is why berserker gear is the best; non-DPS specs are suboptimal in dungeon running and thus bad.

It is bad, for you.

It’s bad for everyone.

Who are u to tell anyone that it’s bad for them? You are a book definition of Elitist. If it’s good for me, it’s good for everyone. Get a reality check…

Ah here we go, playing the elitist card. I believe that’s called Ad hominem when you lack an actual argument.

It’s really getting a little embarrassing for you.

Romo.3709:

J Eberle.9312:

Ah here we go, playing the elitist card. I believe that’s called Ad hominem when you lack an actual argument.

It’s really getting a little embarrassing for you.

/claps hands
/walks away

cya I guess.

It’s best that when you come in swinging you back up what you have to say with logic instead of insults.

Lol at Romo trying to push his naively wrong views on the rest of us. Zerker is the best gear for dungeons it’s not up for discussion.

clint.5681:

Lol at Romo trying to push his naively wrong views on the rest of us. Zerker is the best gear for dungeons it’s not up for discussion.

I’m not trying to push anything. If you believe that everyone should have zerker gear, good. I’m not saying you’re wrong that it is best gear set. It is if you know how to use it. Something that’s good for you, is not always good for others. You class is NOT best, nobody’s is. It all comes down to how everyone plays. Deal with it or not. It’s not best for all my toons, and I refuse to use it because someone tells me to.
But I guess I’m an Elitist now, because I’m not telling you how to play. Call me a troll or naive, but I do not believe zerker is good for everyone. If you feel that I’m trying to push it on you, the joke is on you I guess?
I’m just stating my point of view since OP is in my guild, and I’ll have to deal with people dying everywhere later, because “someone” told them to go full zerker. Not everyone can play zerker in dungeons, especially when you’re inexperienced.

PVT is the best gear for immersion.

I think that most zerker proponents will say that if you aren’t good enough to run full zerk mix in some knights gear till you are. Doesn’t stop zerk gear from being the best, it just means that if you can’t run it you should probably get some more basic 101 level practice in your class abilities. If you want to do group content don’t run with people who just wanting smooth/fast runs if you can’t manage the low skill requirements needed to survive dungeons with zerker gear. Making your own newbies/learning groups is always an option and better than forcing others to carry you.

Romo.3709:

swiftpaw.6397:

Romo.3709:

swiftpaw.6397:

Urque.6837:

stopped reading at “Berzerker is the best gear”

It is.

It is, for you. It’s no good to a player that just started playing and can barely stay alive. You played long enough that you can do what we see as natural and simple dodge at the right time. If the player is inexperienced, they need survivability over pure power. They’ll get to berserker “status” as they progress.

I actually started with berserker gear. I was then told by poor players to run PVT gear, needless to say things were more difficult when I wore this set as there was less dps in parties and thus fights took longer leaving a larger margin for error. People don’t ‘progress’ in pvt gear, they grow stagnant and garner a reliance.

That worked for you. Great. But if you have a party where two people are competent and rest is learning, it is not the case. Sure the fight will take a minute longer, but I’d rather have one more minute than having to duo the boss since everyone is dead. Let them learn on their own pace.

And that learning they are doing is learning how to not properly dodge, use skills, etc. They are rolling their face on the keyboard and then can’t ever progress to any meaningful combat play because they started with an unnecessary handicap.

To be fair to Romo, zerker isn’t always the best gear set. Assassin is better in some cases and in most other cases the difference is only a few percent in raw damage output and you get more on-crit procs. The only time it’s going to be substantially worse is if you’re a RH Strength Guardian and your party is already stacking tons of precision buffs, i.e. Spotter, Banner of Discipline, fury, OR if you’re a class that goes full into the precision line AND you’re not running with ascended trinkets (which are zerker only).

For any other class that gets significant non-power scaling damage (i.e. mesmers with their reflects) and/or gets good damage from their on-crit procs (mesmer, engineer) Assassin is just straight-up better.

I think it’s fair to use “zerker” as a catchall for any mix of Assassin and Berserker gear though.

I use Assassins on my new ranger because I’m too much of a scrub to afford Berserker.

I’ll be honest, I’m bad. I have my berserker set and use it the majority of the time, but there are times I have to slip into my Soldiers gear so I don’t… Fall on my face and embarrass myself.

#confessionbowbear

Lol

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I think it’s fair to use “zerker” as a catchall for any mix of Assassin and Berserker gear though.

Yep I generally do assume that now. Mostly because I’m going for a mix of zerk+ assassin myself. They sort of go hand in hand.

Somehow I think Romo is just as opposed to this as well however, because these remain purely offensive stats.

swiftpaw.6397:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I think it’s fair to use “zerker” as a catchall for any mix of Assassin and Berserker gear though.

Somehow I think Romo is just as opposed to this as well however, because these remain purely offensive stats.

And rampager? (Lol rampager)

I thought Romo’s only point was that new players who don’t really know their class in berserkers can be a bad thing… Which, sure, can be debated. But I think it depends on the pug. If you have AH guards and “support” specs around you, and a single pug who doesn’t know how to dodge is in berserkers, it can spell trouble for the group. Granted, these things wouldn’t happen in gear checked pugs, but I guess it’s possible that it could happen?

swiftpaw.6397:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I think it’s fair to use “zerker” as a catchall for any mix of Assassin and Berserker gear though.

Yep I generally do assume that now. Mostly because I’m going for a mix of zerk+ assassin myself. They sort of go hand in hand.

Somehow I think Romo is just as opposed to this as well however, because these remain purely offensive stats.

I’m not opposed to any stats. I don’t even know how it became that I’m anti-zerker. There are some great plays by people using pure zerker, assassin or mix of both. Hell, I use it on 3 of my classes. I’m just against the idea of forcing it upon new players that can barely stand on their feet as it is.
In none of my posts did I say that Zerker is bad, but let’s face the facts here. Some people just suck at being zerkers and having them equipped fully in said stats will very quickly turn into the scenario that I’ve been a part of over and over again. And that new inexperience player is laying dead and bringing a burden to the entire party.
I prefer people with zerker stats, but only if they know how to use it, otherwise use something that can at least keep you alive for a while.
It’s like giving a gun to a kid. It’s better off in hands of an experienced person.

Romo.3709:

swiftpaw.6397:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I think it’s fair to use “zerker” as a catchall for any mix of Assassin and Berserker gear though.

Yep I generally do assume that now. Mostly because I’m going for a mix of zerk+ assassin myself. They sort of go hand in hand.

Somehow I think Romo is just as opposed to this as well however, because these remain purely offensive stats.

I’m not opposed to any stats. I don’t even know how it became that I’m anti-zerker. There are some great plays by people using pure zerker, assassin or mix of both. Hell, I use it on 3 of my classes. I’m just against the idea of forcing it upon new players that can barely stand on their feet as it is.
In none of my posts did I say that Zerker is bad, but let’s face the facts here. Some people just suck at being zerkers and having them equipped fully in said stats will very quickly turn into the scenario that I’ve been a part of over and over again. And that new inexperience player is laying dead and bringing a burden to the entire party.
I prefer people with zerker stats, but only if they know how to use it, otherwise use something that can at least keep you alive for a while.
It’s like giving a gun to a kid. It’s better off in hands of an experienced person.

Firstly, nowhere did I state that we should force anyone (including new players) to wear zerker gear and not ‘let them learn at thier own pace’.

Romo.3709:

Let them learn on their own pace.

Secondly, you screamed elitist at someone because you didn’t want to have civil conversation. You have since deleted that it seems, hopefully because you realized it looked silly.

Romo.3709:

Who are u to tell anyone that it’s bad for them? You are a book definition of Elitist. If it’s good for me, it’s good for everyone. Get a reality check…

And thirdly, I am opposed to PVT gear if that was not clear enough. I recommend knights gear to people starting off. Not for the sake of efficiency, because it’s not efficient. For the sake of easing into the real efficient gear set that is zerker.

You took the statement that zerker was best and framed it in your own light so as to argue against it. That is why I start to wonder if you are just simply opposed to it. Perhaps you just misinterpreted what was said.

Zerker gear is the best set.

If the player is bad then it doesn’t matter what set they are in, they’ll remain subpar either way. This is not the fault of the gear.

Syn Sity.5826:

The quote states that berserker gear is the best and is necessary, not that it should be a starting point.

I’m not sure how to be more clear than what Syn has said already.

I never kick people who are new. I only kick people who don’t listen or are clueless. Even experienced players can meet this criteria.

Dabrixmgp.4758:

Aberrant.6749:

Just take it upon yourself and go and watch a walkthrough video >.>

this actually isnt that great. WoW aside since addons play the game for you I have hardcore raided in Everquest as well as Rift. I could go into a totally new encounter I had never seen before and after 1 attempt I know it like I have done it 100 times. If I watch a video guide I never learn anything and half the time its narrated by some guy who has no clue whats going on. Or the raid/group comp is different. Or the phases of each fight are different. Nothing can prepare you for an encounter better than actually doing the encounter.

I’ve never had your experience. Some walkthroughs are better than others, but it’s pretty well established how to do these dungs by now. Heck there is even a written walkthrough for each on the wiki if the narration is just THAT bad. Group comp doesn’t really matter that much in GW2.

I have had players in game that don’t know what the kitten they are doing try to tell me to do the wrong thing though…

swiftpaw.6397:

Syn Sity.5826:

The quote states that berserker gear is the best and is necessary, not that it should be a starting point.

I’m not sure how to be more clear here.

Sometimes it seems that you seek out hostility.

Syn Sity.5826:

swiftpaw.6397:

Syn Sity.5826:

The quote states that berserker gear is the best and is necessary, not that it should be a starting point.

I’m not sure how to be more clear here.

Sometimes it seems that you seek out hostility.

By quoting you to support what I just said? :/

ok.

On the original topic, when I read “experienced only” or “please know what to do” I read it as “I need to be carried”. From my experience “First timers welcome” is an indication of a party with a good attitude. If you want a leet party it’s only going to be a matter of luck on lfg regardless of what you put in the description.

Cormac.3871:

On the original topic, when I read “experienced only” or “please know what to do” I read it as “I need to be carried”. From my experience “First timers welcome” is an indication of a party with a good attitude. If you want a leet party it’s only going to be a matter of luck on lfg regardless of what you put in the description.

Or it could be “let’s not waste each other’s time” or “let’s get this done with and reap rewards asap”.

:)

swiftpaw.6397:

Syn Sity.5826:

swiftpaw.6397:

Syn Sity.5826:

The quote states that berserker gear is the best and is necessary, not that it should be a starting point.

I’m not sure how to be more clear here.

Sometimes it seems that you seek out hostility.

By quoting you to support what I just said? :/

ok.

Sorry, I misunderstood that part of your post thinking that your comment was directed at me. Perhaps I am the one who seeks hostility.

Syn Sity.5826:

swiftpaw.6397:

Syn Sity.5826:

swiftpaw.6397:

Syn Sity.5826:

The quote states that berserker gear is the best and is necessary, not that it should be a starting point.

I’m not sure how to be more clear here.

Sometimes it seems that you seek out hostility.

By quoting you to support what I just said? :/

ok.

Sorry, I misunderstood that part of your post thinking that your comment was directed at me. Perhaps I am the one who seeks hostility.

I suppose I should have said,
’I’m not sure if I can be more clear than what Syn has said already.’

bleh

For fractals I have started requesting experienced zerker with decent specs, and gear checking people.
Why? I’m sick of carrying signet rangers, cleric Warriors, etc. Why do players who Cba to read up on correct specs or want to ‘play how they want’ feel they can waste hours of my precious time? That’s ruder than a gear check.

For easy dungeons I’m not so fussed because they’re relatively fast even with bads/bunkers.

knives.6345:

Cormac.3871:

On the original topic, when I read “experienced only” or “please know what to do” I read it as “I need to be carried”. From my experience “First timers welcome” is an indication of a party with a good attitude. If you want a leet party it’s only going to be a matter of luck on lfg regardless of what you put in the description.

Or it could be “let’s not waste each other’s time” or “let’s get this done with and reap rewards asap”.

:)

Oh, I’m sure that’s what they think they’re saying. It’s just that from my experience people in these groups are no better on average, and less patient if something goes wrong.

Why do you blame the players? When I see a group advertising for heavies, lvl 80s, no X profession, I blame the developers and balancers. We should be able to have lvl 35s in our dungeon groups, we should welcome every profession and every armor class. But with our current state of balance that isn’t going to happen with the general population because seriously, bringing a lvl 35 with all lvl 80s is carrying the person…

People want to play the most efficient and have fun, why do you think people Q.Q about dredge fractal? Because it takes for ever and there are tons of trash mobs. I play arguably the 2 worst professions for PUG groups and what do I do? I MAKE MY OWN TEAM.

It all boils down to the party leader or the group your in….even if your in a expirienced group..Som times things can go wrong in dungeon runs.When somthing goes wrong a good expieriened party group or a leader knows how to handle those situation instantly. ive seen party groups who call themselves expireiced handle these situations very poorly…for example one mob gets aggroed right before going into lupi…. all we had to do was hold the line kill the one mob tats been agroed…but no……..This group who call themselves expirienced instanly panics start running off getting other mobs aggroed and we all die.yea..expirienced alright~nice job

Berserker is only good if you’re not drunk.

Or if you don’t have a cold, sneezing every 20 seconds and missing every single skill you can miss, getting squished by every single thing the game throws at you. I now realised it’s true that you can’t keep your eyes open while sneezing…
Fml.
Yeah, another sleepless night.
Apothecary pigbow FTW

Hey now I’m drunk and zerker in a lvl 1 fractal. Mann I played the flute instead of doing anything in huge weapons testing stuff.

:D

Just because its the highest DPS doesnt make it the best gear. If it was the best gear we wouldnt have other options and all gear would be zerker.

My cleric guardian doesnt do much dps at all but I keep my party alive. There is more to the game than DPS, to say otherwise is ignorant.

Oh dear lord.

I just wish that…

You know what? Never mind, I will say, folks should read the FAQ specifically about builds and such. Okay bye.

Welp, this thread is over. There’s no way to dispute that amazing argument.

Urque.6837:

Just because its the highest DPS doesnt make it the best gear. If it was the best gear we wouldnt have other options and all gear would be zerker.

My cleric guardian doesnt do much dps at all but I keep my party alive. There is more to the game than DPS, to say otherwise is ignorant.

I heard using dodge key keeps people alive too, and they don’t have to go full re- I mean cleric to do that. Do I need to screen cap every time I get in a pug and they all faceplant while I’m rocking an 11k hp zerk guard just to drive that point home? I’m seriously thinking of just compiling screenshots of zerk eles and zerk guards outliving tank spec players just to drive the point home.

Urque.6837:

Just because its the highest DPS doesnt make it the best gear. If it was the best gear we wouldnt have other options and all gear would be zerker.

My cleric guardian doesnt do much dps at all but I keep my party alive. There is more to the game than DPS, to say otherwise is ignorant.

If people would/could keep themselves alive, they would not need others to do it for them, you know, like… dodging at the right time..

Sure your cleric does dps. Even my PVT does dps. but the question is, of the total dps of your team, how much percentage is yours?