(edited by deSade.9437)
General Dungeon Discussion Thread - Part 2
I do: they’re great for roleplaying as monks.
Gonna make a set with monk runes, staff and monk outfit. Love the aesthetics too, they look badkitten.No more healer elly :/
Btw, help me pick up a name. Should I use my necro’s from gw1 or one of my monks’?
I’m considering buying an identity repair kit for my warr, steal her name (it was my monk’s) and put it on my revvie. Wurf!
I mean, when I have enough money <.<P.S. 2 more good things: staff 3 is amazing and I love staff 5 against a wall.
I love staff so far. They should ditch the healing on staff 4 and make it a power-based weapon instead of sword. With Ventari Tablet, we don’t really need any healing from weapons.
Watched Miku’s Arah bomb video again, got the itch to do some goating. First time in at least 4 months.
Spend about 15 minutes exploring, and … DC.
Alt+F4.
Now I remember why I stopped. I miss instance ownership :-(
I do: they’re great for roleplaying as monks.
Gonna make a set with monk runes, staff and monk outfit. Love the aesthetics too, they look badkitten.No more healer elly :/
Btw, help me pick up a name. Should I use my necro’s from gw1 or one of my monks’?
I’m considering buying an identity repair kit for my warr, steal her name (it was my monk’s) and put it on my revvie. Wurf!
I mean, when I have enough money <.<P.S. 2 more good things: staff 3 is amazing and I love staff 5 against a wall.
I love staff so far. They should ditch the healing on staff 4 and make it a power-based weapon instead of sword. With Ventari Tablet, we don’t really need any healing from weapons.
Yes! I never use staff 4, it’s bad and clunky, unneeded and locks you in place.
To dloony: it was immersion-breaking for players. Socialism, yay!!!!!!!!
…
Someone help me… Zeus, take away my ability to switch to other subforums! Jesus christ, the zerk hate is going too far.
“it’s not that the revenant has low dps, it’s supportive, it’s the other 8 classes that have too much damage with no drawbacks”. Yeah, let’s kittening nerf all the other classes instead of 1.
This is taking it too farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
(edited by deSade.9437)
So, what does staff 3 + 5 do?
3: a long duration block. If it blocks projectiles, it will blind the target.
5: a mini rush, 600 range, knock back and interrupt everything along its path.
3: a long duration block. If it blocks projectiles, it will blind the target.
5: a mini rush, 600 range, knock back and interrupt everything along its path.
Ah, I see. Thanks.
Hey Weth, if they add something like this, would gw2dungeons be able to put an interface on it?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/api/Dungeon-path-completion
I have added a manual version to http://gw2dungeons.net/dev/.
Does that look what you want? Any suggestions which images could replace those stars so it were more intuitive?
http://www.iconsdb.com/icons/download/green/checked-checkbox-512.png
A checkbox of that type. Then when you checked a path, it would Strikethrough the name of the path!
Example
Hodgins’s Plan (path 1) (empty checkbox, aka white square)
Hodgins’s Plan (path 1) (checked checkbox)
And maybe gray-out the name of the path a bit aswell?
Edit Checkbox symbols dont work on this forum
I agree with the checkbox. Two columns of check marks, one for all time and one for daily, would be a nice touch.
I’m not sure about the strikethrough idea. Is the plan to change the main page to have these elements on them? That might be unclear why certain paths are crossed out. The only path that should be crossed out is TAFU :P
A page with a more compact representation of this (e.g. all paths are visible at once) would be nice for determining what paths are left “at a glance.”
I’ll put an RFC for that API in this morning. It’ll be great if this can happen. Imagine, a world where someone asks “how do I know what paths I’ve done for DM?” and we can answer with more then “uuuummm….do you remember doing X? How about Y? Did you fight a Z?” xD
It would only cross out the paths you checked as done in the daily
RFC is up. Feel free to make suggestions: https://github.com/arenanet/api-cdi/pull/60
Now if you mark something with a gold star it will turn into a silver star tomorrow (indicating that it has been run once). To keep it compact, I would rather have only one column.
Cool, so long as the information is there, I’m happy
That last run suggestion is actually fantastic, it manages to encompass both whether I’ve done this path today and if I’ve done this path, like ever.
Speaking of Revenant in a non-gameplay mode for a second… does anyone else feel like the staff melee attacks have no weight to them? I play with camera shake off so maybe thats it, but in addition to the low damage numbers the animations just don’t feel weighty. Even Thief/Necro daggers “feel” like they hit hard. The staff hits like a wet noodle and it feels like it too.
www.twitch.tv/nike_dnt
Whenever I play revenant I feel like a victorian lady slapping someone lightly with a laced handkerchief.
Or, if we talkin about hammer, I feel like toying with a pinwheel.
Not that I don’t like playing…
/blows on pinwheel
Can we have a weapon that does soap bubbles?
(edited by deSade.9437)
Only if allies can pop the bubbles for cleansing.
GET IT? HA!
Only if allies can pop the bubbles for cleansing.
GET IT? HA!
Cleansing is boring, how about some classic female-ninja-WTF-bubble-magic instead?
Only if allies can pop the bubbles for cleansing.
GET IT? HA!
AHAHAHA OMG YOU SO FUNNY BAWAWAWAWHH… heeeeee…
/faints dramatically holding handkerchief
Only if allies can pop the bubbles for cleansing.
GET IT? HA!
Cleansing is boring, how about some classic female-ninja-WTF-bubble-magic instead?
Whaaaaat the kitten is that ?
Btw, we just got booted from a 40 scale fractal. Whole group got a dc at the same time. BugWars2 is back !
Only if allies can pop the bubbles for cleansing.
GET IT? HA!
Cleansing is boring, how about some classic female-ninja-WTF-bubble-magic instead?
Whaaaaat the kitten is that ?
Exactly! =)
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/I-want-nerf-to-waterfield-blast-finishers
Evil zerkers can heal. Witchcraft. Stop it.
Cloud of Sparrows [CoS]
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/I-want-nerf-to-waterfield-blast-finishers
Evil zerkers can heal. Witchcraft. Stop it.
It’s funny, I’ve been repeating this on reddit and Wooden Potatoes comment section for a while: if super hard content comes out that requires party healing due to ambient damage effects Berserker will still be the meta because with a coordinated set of blasts you can heal back to full and go back to DPS. A lot of people (same people I see commenting on Nemesis videos or anti-meta reddit threads) seem to think that if party healing becomes a mandatory thing that suddenly a role in your team for a clerics ele/guard/rev becomes optimal. It’s really hard to convince these people that berserker builds have tons of defensive tools already at our disposal we just don’t often have occasion to use them.
The other mind blowing thing for them is that if there are new challenging bosses who have “interrupt or wipe” mechanics that doesn’t mean we will have a dedicated control bot, it just means that each player will have to make a slight adjustment to bring some CC to get that interrupt done when needed. There won’t be a hammer warrior just spamming CC despite their fevered dreams.
www.twitch.tv/nike_dnt
If super hard content comes out, hopefully we’ll need more important things than a dedicated healer. All this healer-monk centric discussion is arbitrary and often the people who preach it don’t bring a single thread of reason to the discussion. If a boss suddenly does more damage or has heavy degeneration such as Old Tom in UC Fractal then all it takes is a water field and coordinated blasts like Nike said.
It’s not like we don’t favour bringing more roles or complexity into the game but making a healing role a necessity doesn’t bring any real value. Advocating team work is a far better approach in making challenging content and the meta as it is has a pretty solid amount of teamwork and variation, we’re just burdened by stale content and cheesy-easy encounters.
>>We have plausible mechanics we just need new and more difficult encounters. <<
It’s funny, I’ve been repeating this on reddit and Wooden Potatoes comment section for a while: if super hard content comes out that requires party healing due to ambient damage effects Berserker will still be the meta because with a coordinated set of blasts you can heal back to full and go back to DPS. A lot of people (same people I see commenting on Nemesis videos or anti-meta reddit threads) seem to think that if party healing becomes a mandatory thing that suddenly a role in your team for a clerics ele/guard/rev becomes optimal. It’s really hard to convince these people that berserker builds have tons of defensive tools already at our disposal we just don’t often have occasion to use them.
The other mind blowing thing for them is that if there are new challenging bosses who have “interrupt or wipe” mechanics that doesn’t mean we will have a dedicated control bot, it just means that each player will have to make a slight adjustment to bring some CC to get that interrupt done when needed. There won’t be a hammer warrior just spamming CC despite their fevered dreams.
IF they put hard content, IF they’d put ambient damage and IF healing scaling would be increased (lots of IFs) maybe it could be worthy to have one dedicated healer (cleric or apo to have damaging stats) rather than asking to everybody to contribute to the global healing…. but it don’t see that coming in that game, and I’m not talking about how it would mess up pvp balance.
i honestly don’t get why people want healers and tanks so much
having to sit around for ages as a dps looking for a healer and/or tank is literally the most boring thing ever in other mmos.
I wouldn’t mind encounters where you would require the party to blast fields other than fire, or even force more teammembers to bring more cc and coordinate it. That would be fun.
Would be hell in pugs though, but it makes pugging with engi even more worthwhile.
“ok, everyone blast now”
“area Retal”
“area Retal”
“area Retal”
“area Retal”
“area retal”
“…”
:D
i honestly don’t get why people want healers and tanks so much
having to sit around for ages as a dps looking for a healer and/or tank is literally the most boring thing ever in other mmos.
Old habits die hard, people want to stick to their old roles, they think GW2 is a generic MMO/there’s a classic trinity etc.
Mechanics that require teamwork and coordination go against their “put 5 random ubercasual snowflakes together and win” philosophy, though.
Remember: first and foremost, every encounter must be accessible to all and not make anyone feel frustrated or like they should improve their personal skill level. That’s not what GW2 is about. It’s about fashion and copious rewards for trivial “achievements” (Hey! You logged in! Here’s a chest with some shinies! GJ!!!!!!11!!!).
If people have to work together, communicate, or meet some skill threshold to complete content, it’s not appropriate for this game.
Watched Miku’s Arah bomb video again, got the itch to do some goating. First time in at least 4 months.
Spend about 15 minutes exploring, and … DC.
Alt+F4.
Now I remember why I stopped. I miss instance ownership :-(
Yeah it sucks when it happens, do you have a kittenty ISP like me too? I guess most of my internet related problems have been alleviated ever since I set up a few firewall inbound/outbound rules to stop problems related to streaming-related throttle from Time Warner, and also when I just sucked it up and dropped $100 on a new router. I now average between ~150-180 ping as opposed to the former 250-300 and sometimes even 320-400 ping that I formerly suffered through for nearly a year on EU servers.
i honestly don’t get why people want healers and tanks so much
having to sit around for ages as a dps looking for a healer and/or tank is literally the most boring thing ever in other mmos.
Tbh, this is exactly how I feel too except having played Archeage during the first few weeks I can say that playing trinity combat in dungeons honestly isn’t that much more enjoyable than waiting to play it was. Can’t even believe people cry about zerkmeta1111ing on here when it could be so much worse.
(edited by Purple Miku.7032)
Of course I have a kittenty ISP. Aren’t they all?
TWC all day, like a boss. My router is also about 6 years old and was a cheapo I bought from Comcast way back when…so I’m probably long overdue for an upgrade…
But yeah, I can count on roughly two DC’s for every 4 hours played on a good day. Makes doing anything solo obscenely frustrating.
(edited by dlonie.6547)
I wonder what phiws would do if anet ACTUALLY listened to them and made extremely harsh encounters with lots of “interrupt or die” mechanics, extreme degen that requires healing and lots of attacks which make zerk impossible to wear….
Paradigma: “Twinkleding: take unavoidable 1k damage p/s for 60s” or “Doodedoo: aoe unavoidable skill that does 25k dmg on a 1200 aoe if you don’t coordinate 5 interrupts within a 1.5 window. TWICE”.
Would there be… “YAY FINALLY I CAN PLAY REV VENTARI IN FULL CLERICS BWAHAHAH I FEEL USEFUL! Gear diversity!!!!!!!!!!!!!1” threads? Or… “Hammer warr OP!!!” threads? Orr..
“Omg this is too hard!”?
I wonder.
“omg this is too hard” has my vote. Followed quickly by the new “nerf defensive combos!” cries once they see coordinated full zerk/sinister teams clearing it faster than they can.
Just noticed this: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuvtest
There are a total of 20 threads in that forum, including the one that’s locked and the “Welcome to the subforum!” threads. Am I missing something, or does anyone else smell a flop? :-/
“omg this is too hard” has my vote. Followed quickly by the new “nerf defensive combos!” cries once they see coordinated full zerk/sinister teams clearing it faster than they can.
Just noticed this: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuvtest
There are a total of 20 threads in that forum, including the one that’s locked and the “Welcome to the subforum!” threads. Am I missing something, or does anyone else smell a flop? :-/
As I understand it they decided to make a map similar to EoTM… I can’t see how they felt that would turn out well.
At the same time though, it really should be the best option to solve a lot of the issues in WvW, namely giant zergs. If you want to cover the map you have to split up your forces because jumping across quickly to respond to an attack won’t be possible. However, as much as people complain about that, well, I think it’s just people trying to grasp at something deeper and just latching on to that suggestion that some people came up with.
The entire WvW system is just screwy and unbalanced. You will regularly find yourself either in an unwinnable situation where people throw their hands up and give up, making it even worse for those that decide to stick it out. Or you’re on the opposite, just mindlessly smashing across the world. In either case it’s not very fun.
I still want to see a map that’s just a strait open field, no place-able siege outside a few select “siege sites” on the outskirts of the area. One capture node in the middle. King of the hill style, giant battle in the middle with a few skirmishing teams capturing Siege sites.
But, wth why am I talking WvW in the dungeon forum? Wait, why am I thinking that WvW will ever get fun?
“Omg this is too hard!”?
I wonder.
That’s exactly what it will be. If you actually have to coordinate multiple things at the same time at a high level, no pug will be able to do it. and thats a GOOD thing, we need content that isn’t balanced around what bad pugs can do.
The other feeling is there is all this gloating from the tanky healer casual crowd. They think, for some dumb reason, like this will suddenly make like the hardcore experienced players bad or whatever and scrubs good. That puzzles me. Lets say by some crazy scenario 1 pure healer per team became meta. What would stop any organized dungeon guild from having someone respec to healer and continue to clear content? They act like its going to level the playing field and bads will suddenly be good at the game which I don’t get at all.
www.twitch.tv/nike_dnt
“omg this is too hard” has my vote. Followed quickly by the new “nerf defensive combos!” cries once they see coordinated full zerk/sinister teams clearing it faster than they can.
Just noticed this: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuvtest
There are a total of 20 threads in that forum, including the one that’s locked and the “Welcome to the subforum!” threads. Am I missing something, or does anyone else smell a flop? :-/
The beta was only a super small subset of players. Combining EU and NA total, still less than 500 people (more like ~300?), it shouldn’t be too surprising there isn’t many post on there. It was nothing at all like the Revenent beta weekend.
We also gave feedback to the devs and map designers directly when they joined us on teamspeak so not really a lot needs to be posted on the forums.
“omg this is too hard” has my vote. Followed quickly by the new “nerf defensive combos!” cries once they see coordinated full zerk/sinister teams clearing it faster than they can.
Just noticed this: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuvtest
There are a total of 20 threads in that forum, including the one that’s locked and the “Welcome to the subforum!” threads. Am I missing something, or does anyone else smell a flop? :-/
There were really few people in the test, mostly friends from press guy and twitchers. As I understood (cause I was bored after 10 minutes on twitch) they didn’t even fight but wanted to see the map for best screenshots. It was too few for people to actually comment on it or even be interested in it.
It is too soon to predict a flop I think, wait for a real beta test of the map and the kittenstorm coming with it
Tbh, this is exactly how I feel too except having played Archeage during the first few weeks I can say that playing trinity combat in dungeons honestly isn’t that much more enjoyable than waiting to play it was. Can’t even believe people cry about zerkmeta1111ing on here when it could be so much worse.
So much Yes.
Playing trinity games with a dedicated strait healer and tank just makes it boring. It’s like running dungeons with a full nomad’s team but maybe a little faster. Risk is simply removed outside of chaos mechanics that try to trip you up, but once you figure those out…zzzz
Top end teams in my old games didn’t do that though. Your Healers DPS, your tanks DPS and they even make sacrifices to their role to do more damage. Not only is it more effective, but it’s also more fun and breaks up the monotony of the tank n spank system. We used to have tanks and healers wearing DPS gear because we knew we could cover the base requirements and it made it more fun.
Am I missing something, or does anyone else smell a flop? :-/
The beta was only a super small subset of players. Combining EU and NA total, still less than 500 people (more like ~300?), it shouldn’t be too surprising there isn’t many post on there. It was nothing at all like the Revenent beta weekend.
We also gave feedback to the devs and map designers directly when they joined us on teamspeak so not really a lot needs to be posted on the forums.
I am missing something then Good. If there was really that little interest during a large scale test, it’d be a really bad sign. But for that small of a tester pool, it’s not so bad.
Tbh, this is exactly how I feel too except having played Archeage during the first few weeks I can say that playing trinity combat in dungeons honestly isn’t that much more enjoyable than waiting to play it was. Can’t even believe people cry about zerkmeta1111ing on here when it could be so much worse.
So much Yes.
Good thing you could solo most archeage dungeons on dps with heal pots. x)
That “plz nerf water fields thread” is amazing, and opens up so many possibilities…
Anyway, I wonder what they’d want from content, then! if a deadly boss isn’t acceptable. Perhaps for everyone to play celestial? :/ Hmmm.
But then they’d complain there’s no diversity.
I didn’t mind trinity games at all… well, I didn’t mind gw1’s trinity because I think monks were just awesome to play. I think it’s mostly nostalgia due to the fact that it capitalised on my strengths. Like, I’m not very smart (/cough understatement) nor great at positioning, but I used to have very good reflexes and performed well in the backline; all those short cd, short casting time skills and the energy management made it pretty exciting to “catch” a spike or predict where the damage would fall. Also the mentality of “save your party” or “play for your party” or “sacrifice for your party” was very easy to assimilate.
GW2 kinda put me at a loss, meaning that it used to feel more selfish. Everyone for himself, do damage and try to survive, run around like headless chicken with no care about positioning front/mid/back… I guess that’s where all these lost people come from: they have absolutely 0 knowledge and understanding of the game and don’t use their assets to the best of their abilities. Or perhaps they do; that’d make them inept.
Or dumb. Owell.
Everything in gw2’s support is more.. subtle, unless we’re talking about huge purple bubbles or whatnot – and even then, people don’t know what’s going on most of the time. I think it may be partially due to the absence of casting bars. God, I miss casting bars. But I can see why they were removed. More action, less reading.
So yeah, dunno, it’s good not to have to wait (I suppose? never had to) and I like doing damage and having things die quickly, but I don’t feel like gw2’s dungeons are so much more exciting than gw1’s. Playing trinity, despite the shortcomings, didn’t feel boring at all, at least there; it felt good to have a.. place in the world. Dungeons were fun, and unlike in gw2, you actually risked wipes and failure was a little more punishing.
Pre-conset era, of course… consets completely sucked the fun out of the game for me.
May also have been because of this thing called protection magic… and holy hell was it fun. Preventing damage instead of taking it? Guard, sign me in.
I’m glad we got at least this in gw2. Some protection.
I wish more classes had more original ways of preventing damage. Why do necros have to tank it with that stupid ds?
Then I wish we had longer, tougher, bigger dungeons to actually put the protective magic to use <.<
I don’t feel like gw2’s dungeons are so much more exciting than gw1’s. Playing trinity, despite the shortcomings, didn’t feel boring at all, at least there; it felt good to have a.. place in the world. Dungeons were fun, and unlike in gw2, you actually risked wipes and failure was a little more punishing.
How much of that was from just having something new to do from time to time?
Aside from Aetherpath, the GW2 dungeons were more or less created blind. They had an idea of what the classes would do, but the combat system was more or less a giant unknown — they were first generation content created before the combat in the game started to gel and before the players (and devs) really knew what the limits of the system were.
Aetherpath, for all of its warts, is a step up in terms of mechanics. Some are gimmicky, some aren’t great, but even then — they’re something new, they’re experiments. They are second generation mechanics — better, but still with some room to improve.
If there were still a dungeon team to create content and work with the players to push the systems and push PvE beyond those early iterations, I doubt we’d be saying that GW2 dungeons are boring.
Alas…que sera, sera…
I’m not sure why is aetherpath even brought into the equation? I’ve done it on release, and I’ve never been so bored, annoyed and frustrated at the endless gimmicks, the unskippable dialogues and just.. all those stupid things you had to do. You had to pull x thing to y so you could damage the boss, jump on z thing so you could avoid y effect… so freaking lame… never had so little fun in the game.
Well, ok, some jps take the cake.
In no way I’d call aetherpath better than anything, not even with a stretch of the imagination. It just sucks. I knew I would’ve hated the guts of it the moment there was that kittened part with the electrified floor. Figuring out what to do with that buggy thing while standing on those pillars… oh my god.
If that’s what the new gw2 dungeons would’ve looked like, I’m almost (almost!) glad they stopped. I want to FIGHT stuff, not jump over platforms and lure mobs to pressure plates and all that bullkitten.
Ok to some gimmicks, but they went completely overboard with it.
Also, there’s no smart way to use that – for example, no effects you can use to your advantage. You can only solve the puzzle in one way. It’s boring.
I redid a gw1 dungeon a few months ago, and no, it wasn’t because there were more, even though it helped a LOT. How many dungeons were in eotm? 13 or so? plus the élite zones. That helps, but it’s the sense of “kitten I wiped, we’re gonna get in trouble if I don’t find a way to fix this” that did it, for me (to hell with consets, I’m not counting them).
You know, now that I think about it, the mob packs in eotm’s dungeons were simply tougher. They could smoke your party in a few seconds, especially with heroes. Their skills had more variety, their ai seems to be a little different. Like, the enemy warriors trying to spike your squishiest party members et similia.
I brought it up as an exception to the “first generation dungeons” bit. It was very gimmicky in places, but they were at least trying something new. The community pretty consistently said “this isn’t a change for the better”, but instead of trying to iterate more, they just stopped.
Puzzles and gimmicks aside, some of the boss mechanics aren’t horrible, in my opinion. I’d take Slick and Sparki or Foreman Spur over Howling King or Rumbly any day, for instance. There was a step up in mechanics there, IMO.
Of course, that’s also looking at the neutered version of the AC bosses post NPE/Ferocity….they were a lot more fun before that, lol
Still, the main point was that if they’d continued iterating and investing in producing dungeons, there would be much more interesting encounters, and that the likely reason the ones we have feel so boring is because they are first generation, and created before the combat system was known.
I don’t really know what happened with Aetherpath. They weren’t really iterating at that point, because they just shoved it out, watched it flopped, and never even attempted to address any of the issues with it. I guess that’s what happens when there is no dedicated dungeon team…
Simple AI and lack of consequences for failure are good points too. Both could have been addressed in later generations, if they’d have cared to.
I do have the feeling they go like “You don’t like it, so we’re not playing with you anymore :<”, sometimes…
P.S. Make sure NOT to watch Kynodontos, if you don’t wanna have nightmares.
Puzzles and gimmicks aside, some of the boss mechanics aren’t horrible, in my opinion. I’d take Slick and Sparki or Foreman Spur over Howling King or Rumbly any day, for instance. There was a step up in mechanics there, IMO.
Take the Howling King, Rumblus and Ghost Eater mechanics and combine them into one boss. Now give that boss enough HP so that it takes 90 seconds to kill with full DPS Ice Bow Glyph of Storms panoply.
You instantly have the best boss in guild wars 2.
The mechanics for a good boss exist within those, but no one put the pieces together to make it.
www.twitch.tv/nike_dnt
I’d love to see that, Nike. Especially the “90s to kill with full DPS” bit.
I ran AC a few months ago with someone who hadn’t played since pre-ferocity. They laughed till they cried when the boss went down in 4 seconds during a 3-man run :-P
That could be a fun boss. On a side note it was interesting doing a three man with both the howling king and rumbles up at the same time….