Guild Wars 2

Isord.2751:

NightyNight, if you are so good on thief, why don’t you show the rest of us a solo Lupicus kill?

Until you do, thief is still going to be bellow warrior in terms of utility in dungeons.

I don’t even need to adress that , its self explanatory.

NightyNight.1823:

Isord.2751:

NightyNight, if you are so good on thief, why don’t you show the rest of us a solo Lupicus kill?

Until you do, thief is still going to be bellow warrior in terms of utility in dungeons.

I don’t even need to adress that , its self explanatory.

No sir, i don’t think it is.

Isord.2751:

NightyNight.1823:

Isord.2751:

NightyNight, if you are so good on thief, why don’t you show the rest of us a solo Lupicus kill?

Until you do, thief is still going to be bellow warrior in terms of utility in dungeons.

I don’t even need to adress that , its self explanatory.

No sir, i don’t think it is.

For you ,I bet.Its the most idiotic argument I’ve ever heard.

NightyNight.1823:

For you ,I bet.Its the most idiotic argument I’ve ever heard.

Please elaborate. Why would you pick a thief over a class that could solo the hardest boss in the game?

NightyNight.1823:

Isord.2751:

NightyNight, if you are so good on thief, why don’t you show the rest of us a solo Lupicus kill?

Until you do, thief is still going to be bellow warrior in terms of utility in dungeons.

I don’t even need to adress that , its self explanatory.

No, it isn’t. Do please share

In the warriors defense, he played that fight very well. he had great timed blocks, used whirlwind to evade though lupi and other things, used his real evades very well. He did a fantastic job with his warrior in the videos he has posted. I would love to be able todo that with my necro but well I cant get past phase 1, cant evade enough or block like him and in-combat LF gain is a joke so i cant use DS to soak up hits when i need to.

Writetyper.1985:

NightyNight.1823:

Isord.2751:

NightyNight, if you are so good on thief, why don’t you show the rest of us a solo Lupicus kill?

Until you do, thief is still going to be bellow warrior in terms of utility in dungeons.

I don’t even need to adress that , its self explanatory.

No, it isn’t. Do please share

Robert Hrouda.1327:

stof.9341:

Why should “Reckless Dodge” allow you to exit the bubble when the trait is just supposed to add some damage at end of roll?

That seems to be the issue at hand – is that wreckless dodge is cancelling out the behavior intended for the bubble.

Isord.2751:

NightyNight.1823:

For you ,I bet.Its the most idiotic argument I’ve ever heard.

Please elaborate. Why would you pick a thief over a class that could solo the hardest boss in the game?

Thieves can’t solo him because they depend on stealth. Plus, only certain proffesions can get out of the necrid trap with simple dodge.

haviz.1340:

Isord.2751:

NightyNight.1823:

For you ,I bet.Its the most idiotic argument I’ve ever heard.

Please elaborate. Why would you pick a thief over a class that could solo the hardest boss in the game?

Thieves can’t solo him because they depend on stealth. Plus, only certain proffesions can get out of the necrid trap with simple dodge.

Its beside point but no.It can be done both melee whit S/D and easier, range whit short bow.But again, its beside the point , just because you can or can’t solo Lupicus doesn’t mean anything.The whole game doesn’t run around Lupicus mechanics.Its just a boss , get over it.

NightyNight.1823:

Gab Superstar.4059:

NightyNight.1823:

XGhoul.7426:

NightyNight.1823:

XGhoul.7426:

NightyNight.1823:

XGhoul.7426:

Strifey.7215:

Never met a thf that brings more to the grp for dps then warrior. Fury, might, and banner from warrior + heavy armor and naturally high health is way better for speed running most things. And no way shortbow is high dps.

+1.
I’ve almost given up bringing ANY theifs because they play like their profession is “Ranger” and spam on short bow from a distance 24/7

Did you even read the previous posts?10k Cluster bombs and 62k melee damage in 3 seconds? Wow you people are so ignorant.

I never edited my post which was in relation to Fractals, if you want me to eat my own words show me some 30+ fractals with theifs dealing “insane” damage as you claim (then it comes down to “does every theif run the same build?” most that I have played with have been next to useless so I don’t even bother after giving pugs a 1 month chance*)

We’re talking about damage potential so if Thief does bigger dammage than other classes outside fractals ,logicaly ,it will do bigger damage inside fractals aswell.Now choke on your words.
And don’t say Thief is bad because people are bad at it , thats not even an argument.

A theif does more damage than ANY other class because it is meant for a burst dps, (which is not sustainable over long periods of time) now in relation to Fractals again, damage is only 1 criteria for being successful, and support comes into play. Support wise, most theif’s have nothing to bring besides stealth (as far as my knowledge goes, welcome to be proven wrong) this is why although they provide the better damage, party wise they are not viable for a team build meant to support each other (shout warriors/ boon guardians/ elementalist heals/ etc.) and it goes back again to why I don’t bring them to my parties.

Now go and do your homework , I’m not here to teach you about the Thief proffesion.Don’t discriminate if you have no idea what you’re talking about.The only thing that I’m going to let you know is that , it is not a burst.That 62k is sustainable damage every 3-4 seconds .

- Go into a level 80 dungeon.
- Find a boss that does very little to you that would interrupt your DPS.
- Wail on him as much as you can.
- Record and upload here.

Do this and we can judge how good your DPS is. I’m not gonna say you are bullkittenting but from my experience there is no way in kittenland a thief would do more DPS than a warrior, but then again you might be sitting on a super secret build with monstrous DPS that has passed the community by entirely. If you do please share it because I would love to be able to play more professions in dungeons.

Go play thief yourself and tell me otherwise.And read the stupid previous posts.Proof is there.When you’ll play both Warrior and Thief like me then you’ll come and say the same thing.

I read every post, and you have provided no proof at all as to why thieves are better than warriors. Yep, I do play thief. And I am not saying the same thing as you.

Please get off whatever thief high you are riding and either a) accept the fact that warriors are superior, or b) provide us with proof that points to the opposite.

The proof is to Thief doing more damage than Warrior.And I highly doubt you play a thief and even if you did you don’t know how to play it otherwise you wouldn’t have said that.

NightyNight.1823:

The proof is to Thief doing more damage than Warrior.And I highly doubt you play a thief and even if you did you don’t know how to play it otherwise you wouldn’t have said that.

Oooooooooooooo-k I am done here.

If you cannot even understand the basics of what a proof is, there is no point in trying to discuss anything here.

Gab Superstar.4059:

NightyNight.1823:

The proof is to Thief doing more damage than Warrior.And I highly doubt you play a thief and even if you did you don’t know how to play it otherwise you wouldn’t have said that.

Oooooooooooooo-k I am done here.

If you cannot even understand the basics of what a proof is, there is no point in trying to discuss anything here.

I presented an argument , I presented evidence(screen shots) and can be easily validated.If you’re having troubles defining proof I sugest a dictionary.The only one having troubles of comprehension its , sadly ,you.Now please ,you’re welcome to get lost.

NightyNight.1823:

The proof is to Thief doing more damage than Warrior.And I highly doubt you play a thief and even if you did you don’t know how to play it otherwise you wouldn’t have said that.

Well apparently I don’t know how to play thief.

Care to enlighten me on how you play it?

NightyNight.1823:

Gab Superstar.4059:

NightyNight.1823:

The proof is to Thief doing more damage than Warrior.And I highly doubt you play a thief and even if you did you don’t know how to play it otherwise you wouldn’t have said that.

Oooooooooooooo-k I am done here.

If you cannot even understand the basics of what a proof is, there is no point in trying to discuss anything here.

I presented an argument , I presented evidence(screen shots) and can be easily validated.If you’re having troubles defining proof I sugest a dictionary.The only one having troubles of comprehension its , sadly ,you.Now please ,you’re welcome to get lost.

But you yourself said that big numbers, which is the only thing you are presenting, does not mean high DPS, right? Furthermore your maths are off because you are not taking into account a lot of factors. For example you are trying to argue that using 5 skills would take the same amount of time to use as 1x 100b just because the total cast time is equal. This is not true because of factors such as lag and after casting. You are not taking into account the amount of time you are able to spam your abilities due to your severely lowered health pool, you are not taking into account the conditions and team buffs of a warrior.

Only through uploading a video of yourself pushing out your max DPS can we compare it to that of a warrior.

Ohh what you’re opened to discuss now?I thought you’re done here.
All other factors such as lag ,after cast and team composition are atribuited to both classes so you don’t have to necesarely take them into consideration.
I’ve been going through all the dungeons glass cannon whit both Warrior and Thief , and I never had any issue surviving.That leaves you down to Damage.Thief damage is far superior to Warriors . It might not be double in practice like in theory whit the screen shot but its still bigger.Thief skills have no cast time and they are almost instant.Anyone who plays Thief and Warrior will tell you that Thief dps is bigger.Don’t get fooled by the bigger numbers.

NightyNight.1823:

Ohh what you’re opened to discuss now?I thought you’re done here.
All other factors such as lag ,after cast and team composition are atribuited to both classes so you don’t have to necesarely take them into consideration.
I’ve been going through all the dungeons glass cannon whit both Warrior and Thief , and I never had any issue surviving.That leaves you down to Damage.Thief damage is far superior to Warriors . It might not be double in practice like in theory whit the screen shot but its still bigger.Thief skills have no cast time and they are almost instant.Anyone who plays Thief and Warrior will tell you that Thief dps is bigger.Don’t get fooled by the bigger numbers.

The total lag and after cast of 1 skill is not equal to that of 5 skills, no.

Nighty, I just tried out your rotation for kittens and giggles
I even used every +initiative trait, dual wield daggers on both slots for the +initiative on weapon swap and equipped Infiltrator’s Signet. Needless to say that the build is completely kitten and unusable…
Anyway, I went to town on some dummies and did what you do to outdamage warriors; [1,1,1 5 1 2] and, oh wonder, it was NOT sustainable, after a few rotations I ran out of initiative.

So, there you have it, your “evidence” (quotation marks, since providing no information about gear, stats, buffs and debuffs makes for questionable proof at best) of Thieves out-dpsing Warriors doesn’t hold up.

q.e.d.

Lag is not a factor.
I don’t lag.
And you can easily do C&D -BS-A round of Normal hits-C&D -BS roughly in the time it takes to do Hundred blades.And even if it takes 1-2 seconds longer its still much more than a Warrior and I can still continue while you need to wait for cooldown.
I’ve been competing whit my whit my fellow Warrior guild friends so I know for sure Thief DPS is bigger and you’re welcome to try for yourself.

Epic Cactus.9723:

Nighty, I just tried out your rotation for kittens and giggles
I even used every +initiative trait, dual wield daggers on both slots for the +initiative on weapon swap and equipped Infiltrator’s Signet. Needless to say that the build is completely kitten and unusable…
Anyway, I went to town on some dummies and did what you do to outdamage warriors; [1,1,1 5 1 2] and, oh wonder, it was NOT sustainable, after a few rotations I ran out of initiative.

So, there you have it, your “evidence” (quotation marks, since providing no information about gear, stats, buffs and debuffs makes for questionable proof at best) of Thieves out-dpsing Warriors doesn’t hold up.

q.e.d.

Of course its sustainable.You have plenty of ways to refil initiative.And you can always get the trait for 2 initiative each time you stealth and that way you never run out of initiative while doing that combo.

NightyNight.1823:

Of course its sustainable.You have plenty of ways to refil initiative.And you can always get the trait for 2 initiative each time you stealth and that way you never run out of initiative while doing that combo.

Which part of I used every +initiative and + imitative regen trait didn’t you understand?

Bull kitten.
Either you have no idea what you’re doing or you lied.Why I don’t seem to have those issues.You wont see a thief running out of initiative lol.
Only whit that 2 initiative on stealth trait I did 8 combos before I ran out of initiative and 1 roll for initiative and steal and my initiative is back to full.Shadow refuge also refils your initiative completly .Why do you talk bs?You probaly didn’t even tried.

NightyNight.1823:

Bull kitten.
Either you have no idea what you’re doing or you lied.Why I don’t seem to have those issues.You wont see a thief running out of initiative lol.
Only whit that 2 initiative on stealth trait I did 8 combos before I ran out of initiative and 1 roll for initiative and steal and my initiative is back to full.Shadow refuge also refils your initiative completly .Why do you talk bs?You probaly didn’t even tried.

What trait build are you using?

Glass Cannon of course .That means ..
30 Criticals strikes: 20% more damage under 50% , fury at 50% , and another 1 of your prefference , I preffer(for no reason) the 10% chance on critical to get quickness.I love the random quickness you get and you’d be surprised how often that is.You could go for might on signet but I don’t use signets in PvE because they are kitten.
20-30 Deadly Arts:Damage when stealing , its just amazing damage .40% for vulnerability on critical , very good.And 5% Dagger Damage.
Next you can go in Shadow Arts and get 2 initiative on stealth trait or blinds. Or trickery for 5% more damage from the back and sides or fury-swiftness-might for you and the whole party for 10s.Or both and less in DA.Up to you and the situation.

i don’t play warrior or thief..

but aren’t warriors better for trash mobs in dungeons? (aoe)

People underestimate the power of Short Bow but it has insane damage.On trash mobs it does up to 10k cluster bombs .I posted a screen shot on first page I think.Its certainly better than Warrior range and its aoe .Warrior bow seemed pretty good while leveling ,never got the chance to test it on level 80.I rarely see anyone using it so it must not be that good.But all in all , trash mobs are not important.

Wait, how did a thread about Guardians essentially being Monks 2.0 become a kitten contest between Thief and Warrior DPS?

I guess “the internet” happened.

I should be thankful I got here before we reached the inevitable discussion about Hitler.

Who needs support?Who needs tanks?Who needs Guardians?
Other than high level fractals I don’t see any use for 1.
Guardians are overrated.

Guys please stop posting screenshots where your WW does an abnormal amount of damage because it’s a bug where others instances of dmg are taken account. Unless you are able to do 25k dmg everytime.

Just here to say that I approve the op stating that guardian is one of the most (if not the) powerful profession in dungeons. I left my Mesmer for newer things and I now feel a lot more useful as a Guardian, also approved by my usual teammates.

Don’t debate on this profession has this but this one has that : it’s about team and Guardians have traits to enhance your party much more efficiently than others.

Define powerfull..
I’d take any DPS proffesion over Guardian , finish just as safe and good as whit one, only faster.

The reason warriors stand above the rest is the hp difference and the extreme damage difference. Their autoattacks blow the other classes’ autoattacks out of the water, and 100b has a very low cooldown for the damage it does.

A 12k hp glass cannon dagger ele can be 1-shot by the warrior mobs lv20+ in the ascalonian fractal. A warrior with 18k hp and better armor, even if glass cannon, has the error window of 6k more hp to live through the burst and reposition. Even warriors with a mix of toughness gear are landing 12k Kill Shots — I wish any of my ranged skills on any class hit for that number.

Guardians have low HP, but they have constant prot for 33% less damage intake, aegis, blocks, and offhealing. A greatsword guardian does decent damage, but his utility of pulling mobs together and providing boons to his team cannot be undervalued.

The same goes for a bunker ele with d/d and aura sharing. I can give my team on my ele all boons at nearly permanent uptime by attunement switching. Fury, protection, regen, aoe healing. My damage is mediocre and I have no option because glass cannon d/d at 13-14k hp in explorables and fractals is not viable.

Boons and raw damage are the answer to class imbalance. Boon uptime on some classes is so potent, while other classes like the mesmer and ranger and thief cannot keep boons up anywhere at such a rate, their HP pools are smallers, and in the case of the ranger and mesmer their DPS, particularly aoe, is inferior in dungeons (because minions and pets get quickly killed in dungeons from all the aoe and conal melee 2k autoattacks).

You bring a mesmer for time warp, or a thief for shadow refuge. They don’t offer anything else. Engineers and rangers are even worse off. My Blue moa has a15 sec cd if I pet swap to reset the F2 cooldown on a measly 4 second aoe protection. My ele with his earth attunement on a 10 sec cd gives protection for more.

The utility, base survivability, and damage differences between the classes is so vast when they had advertised that while differences existed such classes would remain competitive in all roles. They simply are not competitive.

Wrong facts 1 after another.

Their autoattacks blow the other classes’ autoattacks out of the water, and 100b has a very low cooldown for the damage it does.

Warrior GS auto atacks are slow and low compared to a Thief.

My damage is mediocre and I have no option because glass cannon d/d at 13-14k hp in explorables and fractals is not viable.

Wrong again .All proffesions can Go full Glass Cannon in Dungeons and have no troubles surviving once you’ve learned all the mechanics.I have D/D ele friends that does it all the time ,even easier than me.Even on my thief whit 10k hp I don’t have any issues surviving.Dungeons are down right stupid easy.

You bring a mesmer for time warp, or a thief for shadow refuge.They don’t offer anything else.

People that didn’t see things from every perspective shouldn’t be so careless stating things like that.
We’ve already established that Thief DPS is much better than Warriors so if thats nothing to you , sure.You should’ve read the previous posts.
And lol , Mesmer only good for Time Warp .LOL indeed.

We’ve already established that Thief DPS is much better than Warriors

Only in your delusional imaginary world. The next time you post your “proof” screenshots, make sure they weren’t taken on mobs who have 0 armor. You might as well as take screenshots on Arah2 endboss and “prove” Thief DPS is better than Warrior DPS.

Mesmer only good for Time Warp. LOL indeed.

As someone who used to main a Mesmer, this is 100% truth.

Ooo a e-p*nis competition, I’ll bite.

• I crit CoE p3 destroyer for 29k+ 100b, 20-24k+ is constant against most mobs.
• My gs auto crits up to 5k+, whirlwind 10k+ is normal, I constantly proc quickness, get bleeds from arms tree trait and increase overall dps further.

(And I’m 99% glass, I have some non berserker jewelry and runes aren’t full damage)

Thief can spike, but warr will outdps you and at the same time buff party’s overall damage aswell from FGJ, vulna stacks and fury.

Come at me, bro.

hi i play both a theif and a warrior and sorry ya all but theif out dmgs warrior with ease and with the right traits the health pool thing is neglagable now mind you i dont get dmg like that fella in previous posts but im also not even in full exotics yet on theif or warrior. so in light of this current argument if you folks want to send me gold so i can buy exotics i will do dps tests and videos at any spec requested on either toon on any boss or mob not inf ractle land as i have not taken the time to do fractles

My group often runs 2 glass cannon warriors, 1 glass cannon thief, 1 crit hammer guardian, 1 shout heal condition removal guardian. Pretty sure the thief gets downed more than either warrior but thats offtopic.

I agree with the OP for the most part, our cleave teams clear everything with ease and quite fast. My crit hammer guardian doesn’t “sacrifice” damage, actually does plenty while being nigh unkillable. Been getting quite bored of pve lately for this reason.

Its funny how people claim to Warrior does more damage than Thief but never played one.Anyone who plays both will tell you this , its ridiculous to even compare them.Its not even a debate.Go play one for yourself and stop being ridiculous.Warrior GS dps is so slow its pathetic.

For the record my engi can keep near full stack of vuln AND bleed on a boss these sigil days by himself.
Just the vuln stack alone is kind of a big deal.

Maybe you can all agree to disagree?

I’ve entered in this post to read about my class (Guardian) and endup reading only about Warrior vs Thief dmg.

So Warrior damage is low and Thief damage is op. Buff Warrior, nerf Thief. Sounds good to me.

Ye so lower health pool and defence ,lets take its only atribute left away , the damage.Good we don’t have you for balancing classes.

Guilhermezz.2601:

I’ve entered in this post to read about my class (Guardian) and endup reading only about Warrior vs Thief dmg.

Same ;< I smell moderators already lurking here.

NightyNight.1823:

Ye so lower health pool and defence ,lets take its only atribute left away , the damage.Good we don’t have you for balancing classes.

Instead we have to put up with Izzy and the rest of the team.

NightyNight.1823:

Ye so lower health pool and defence ,lets take its only atribute left away , the damage.Good we don’t have you for balancing classes.

Yes, remove stealth too.

The topic is about guardians being better than the rest.Warrior and Thief qualify as those rest.

Sry guy(troll), warriors are way better for groups in dungeons than thieves will ever be.

on topic: guardians are pretty low on my wvw tier list lol. however, they’re great for tanking/cleansing/protection/ retaliation in dungeons and damage/ bunker in spvp.

NightyNight.1823:

Who needs support?Who needs tanks?Who needs Guardians?
Other than high level fractals I don’t see any use for 1.
Guardians are overrated.

they make dungeons a hell of a lot easier. If not for my complete support guardian guildy showing me the light a few weeks back, I would still be doing stupid things like graveyard rushing CoF path 2 door

cough cough….off topic…there is no snowballs chance in hell a mesmer will ever solo gianticus lupiicous.

Iehova.9518:

Mesmer only good for Time Warp. LOL indeed.

As someone who used to main a Mesmer, this is 100% truth.

Lol, you guys never have seen a decent mesmer.
Mesmer > all in everything espacially support in PvE, i outperform every guardian by a lot.

Mesmer is the only must have class in this game for everything.