Guild Wars 2

If you enjoy raiding, good for you. For real. I am not a type 3 player, I am both equipped well enough and not that naive to expect Anet to hand me everything for free.
I still find it sad that I have to deal with this type of content in my favorite game. I also don´t think that the skill bar is too high for most people if responsible raiders take the time to teach them the ropes.
And you will maybe forgive when when I find it equally hilarious and disturbing to see how many of the “git good” types of players this has attracted when you look in the forums(not including you).

Torolan.5816:

I still find it sad that I have to deal with this type of content in my favorite game. I also don´t think that the skill bar is too high for most people if responsible raiders take the time to teach them the ropes.

There are teaching runs

Sun Lian.4075:

We all paid for this game, I can’t believe some people actually think their in the fullest right having some sort of monopoly on end game content, only because they have all the time in the world to play gw2.

They need to stop setting the bar so ridiculously high all the time.

We all paid for this game, I can’t believe some people actually think their in the fullest right to try to eliminate the end game content other people enjoy, only because they don’t have the skill or the time to do it.

They need to stop setting the bar so ridiculously low all the time.

Neox.3497:

FrostDraco.8306:

Vinceman.4572:

Why should his group run training runs if they all have managed to clear the raid? Just to help others in the game and be the Good Samaritan? You can’t expect players to offer things for any other player in this game.

I never said he SHOULD. I asked him a question. Do you not know the difference between “How many have you?”, and “Why haven’t you?” I guess not.

He complained about people not putting in the effort to learn the raid. Yet he doesn’t offer any runs for said people to learn it, and neither does anyone else. THAT was my point. Watching fight video’s and looking up theory crafting about rotations only gets you so far.

Do you think my group got any training runs from experienced players? NO. We had to learn it ourselves. The only thing we had were some videos as you said and nothing more.

Now why is it our duty to help you?

It’s not. Like i said before. Straw man much? Don’t complain about people asking for help, when you are able to help, but wont offer any.

This is exactly what i was talking about. You completely ignored what i said to say I’m somehow ‘demanding’ help. Asking, is not demanding. Or would you just rather we not ask and ‘figure it out ourselves’, because that’s what it sounds like. You did it, so why not make everyone go through the same thing? Even when you can help us have an easier time than you did? Sounds salty, which is a toxic attitude to have.

Well, but there are enough experienced players offering teaching/training runs.
And it’s not toxic if you aren’t willing to spend your short time playing this game to teach people something you are able to do. It’s a gentle offer if you do so nothing more.

In the end you can watch video guides, use proper/meaningful builds/classes, take the right buff food but you have to play on your own. Yes, it can be very frustrating sitting in a group with 1 or more low performers. The amount of bad other players that will never beat the first raid boss in its current state is huge in GW2. You either realize that asap and change your roster or you won’t succeed. This is why I left some raiding groups and guildies I tried to play with. You have to make such hard decisions and of course, it’s kind of egoistic but comprehensible if you want to move on.

I can read guides and watch videos all I want, I’m still asked to show LI’s or that I’m full asc.

Sun Lian.4075:

I can read guides and watch videos all I want, I’m still asked to show LI’s or that I’m full asc.

Because you want to pug raid, that’s all. Look for a guild. In mine, we don’t mind bringing one or 2 new people and explain them our strats and the boss mechanisms.

FrostDraco.8306:

Neox.3497:

FrostDraco.8306:

Vinceman.4572:

Why should his group run training runs if they all have managed to clear the raid? Just to help others in the game and be the Good Samaritan? You can’t expect players to offer things for any other player in this game.

I never said he SHOULD. I asked him a question. Do you not know the difference between “How many have you?”, and “Why haven’t you?” I guess not.

He complained about people not putting in the effort to learn the raid. Yet he doesn’t offer any runs for said people to learn it, and neither does anyone else. THAT was my point. Watching fight video’s and looking up theory crafting about rotations only gets you so far.

Do you think my group got any training runs from experienced players? NO. We had to learn it ourselves. The only thing we had were some videos as you said and nothing more.

Now why is it our duty to help you?

It’s not. Like i said before. Straw man much? Don’t complain about people asking for help, when you are able to help, but wont offer any.

This is exactly what i was talking about. You completely ignored what i said to say I’m somehow ‘demanding’ help. Asking, is not demanding. Or would you just rather we not ask and ‘figure it out ourselves’, because that’s what it sounds like. You did it, so why not make everyone go through the same thing? Even when you can help us have an easier time than you did? Sounds salty, which is a toxic attitude to have.

Yes, that is EXACTLY what you should do. Everyone that is asking for LI’s and to ping your gear FIGURED IT OUT THEMSELVES. they spent dozens of hours failing, learning the fights with 9 other people who had never done it before and they figured it out.

They already did that, and don’t want to do it again. You have not done that and are asking for them to take you along and teach you. They have no obligation to do this nor should you expect them to. I’m sure some guilds will provide teaching runs and you should do those, but wanting players who put in the work to spend time training up countless random pug’s is quite simply a ridiculous idea.

This is not toxic, it is not personal, it is not mean, it is simply reality and common sense.

Sun Lian.4075:

I can read guides and watch videos all I want, I’m still asked to show LI’s or that I’m full asc.

I’m sorry, but judging by your comments I feel like you didn’t try to find a group more than a couple of times.
I already said it ~5 times but I’ll say it again: every week (!) I join so many PuG groups that never ask me for any LI! if I can find them without even looking, I’m sure others can too.

People here are saying there is no guidance and no one is willing to help, did you try to look for it??
just look a couple of posts below this:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Raid-teaching-runs-Proving-accessibility/page/2
and there are more guilds doing the same.

I saw an awesome starter raid guide someone wrote today on reddit.. you should check that out (don’t know if I’m allowed to link)

Seriously, all you have to do it try, if you fail once/twice and then go QQ in the forums, your problems will remain the same.

So 80 LI 6/6 cleared raider here that raided since the release of raids with a few weeks of hiatus to play other games and I’m going to tell you what I’m noticing about a lot of the complainers. On another note I also co-lead a raid training guild and we whipped up a team of complete raid virgins and got them 6/6 cleared in 6 weeks.

If you think about it this way, for every complainer crying about raids being inaccessible and unable to meet the strict requirements of high tier teams, there are 2 other people in the same boat trying to do something about it. Where did you think all of my guild’s recruits came from? They were in the situation as you, but instead of crying and complaining about the raid playerbase, they tried their hardest to improve and get good. If you can’t put in the effort to become the caliber of player that end-game content require, might as well not just bother doing it.

You need to put in effort to do end-game content and this is true for every game. There are tons of guilds that are willing to take in complete raid virgins and whip them into shape, so go find them. Listen to what they tell you to do and try your hardest to improve. You know what people like us did when raids first came out? We bang our heads against each fight trying to figure out tactics and team setups. Sometimes pug in the first few weeks of release go for like 6+ hours straight. You guys have it easy as optimal tactics and team setups are already established by people like us, so there really isn’t a reason saying it’s hard to get into raids because we’ve done most of the hard work for you. If you are not willing to put in the effort and still want the rewards, it’s just won’t happen unless you have a credit card ready….

Also the guild I co-lead only ask for full ascended and no experience is required. As long as you have TS+mic and willing to listen to what the leaders are telling you, you can join. Before you casuals are saying ascended requirement is too much, think of it as a proof of dedication. If you can’t even put in the effort to get the proper gear (it’s not hard at all to get a set by the way), why should we think that you will put in the right effort to learn the raids?

FrostDraco.8306:

It’s not. Like i said before. Straw man much? Don’t complain about people asking for help, when you are able to help, but wont offer any.

This is exactly what i was talking about. You completely ignored what i said to say I’m somehow ‘demanding’ help. Asking, is not demanding. Or would you just rather we not ask and ‘figure it out ourselves’, because that’s what it sounds like. You did it, so why not make everyone go through the same thing? Even when you can help us have an easier time than you did? Sounds salty, which is a toxic attitude to have.

And why should we offer our help? Like you said, you are asking not demanding. Well we can help if we want, but we are not obligated.

Think about it man. You are saying to other people that they have toxic attitude because they don’t offer YOU some help to make YOUR experience easier than ours. You don’t know anything about any of us except that we won’t offer you our help. I trained about 20 players of my group into raid. I think I did my part and I continue to do my part and I don’t think that I’m alone here. I bet plenty of people that are not help you are helping other. But in the end of the day we have limited time in the game and we can’t help everybody. So please keep your salty and toxic insult to yourself.

Coconut.7082:

Sun Lian.4075:

I can read guides and watch videos all I want, I’m still asked to show LI’s or that I’m full asc.

I’m sorry, but judging by your comments I feel like you didn’t try to find a group more than a couple of times.
I already said it ~5 times but I’ll say it again: every week (!) I join so many PuG groups that never ask me for any LI! if I can find them without even looking, I’m sure others can too.

People here are saying there is no guidance and no one is willing to help, did you try to look for it??
just look a couple of posts below this:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Raid-teaching-runs-Proving-accessibility/page/2
and there are more guilds doing the same.

I saw an awesome starter raid guide someone wrote today on reddit.. you should check that out (don’t know if I’m allowed to link)

Seriously, all you have to do it try, if you fail once/twice and then go QQ in the forums, your problems will remain the same.

Well maybe you just got lucky, or started raiding way earlier. If you would be in my position right now you’d think otherwise. Cause it really is elitist, there’s no question about that.

The groups you’re talking about are training groups, and they have no real intention on completing the raid, am I supposed to keep joining those a 100 times first and listen to the same explanations in TS until one happens to succeed? As if you would do that yourself.

Oh Snapalope.1378

And dedication? You think I’m not dedicated just because I don’t get to farm or play enough to have full asc gears? That’s the stupidest thing ever, and exactly the problem here. So I’m a “casual” just for having a job and having less time to play than you.
Why do you think I’m so annoyed with this, I’m dedicated enough and want to do raids, and I know I could do well but people like you just won’t give me the chance.

Sun Lian.4075:

am I supposed to keep joining those a 100 times first and listen to the same explanations in TS until one happens to succeed? As if you would do that yourself.

Some people are interested in improving. Other people are dedicated to improving. There is a difference. People who are dedicated towards a goal will do whatever they need to do, people who are merely interested will find excuses to fail. Don’t be confused about which one you are. If you took that as an insult, don’t: you can change which one you are right now by simply making a choice in the moment to be what you want to be and don’t suffer your own excuses.

Yea, right.

As if it’s really necessary and helpful to join a training group a 100 times, please…

Like that, I would have my first successful raid in about 4 months.
So that’s what those oh so dedicated people that now have 50+ LI have been through as well? I really doubt it.

Be a victim forever then. Live in a world of excuses. Whatever you need, dude.

Sun Lian.4075:

Yea, right.

As if it’s really necessary and helpful to join a training group a 100 times, please…

Like that, I would have my first successful raid in about 4 months.
So that’s what those oh so dedicated people that now have 50+ LI have been through as well? I really doubt it.

No, I did training groups 2-3 times until I knew what I was doing, then went and joined a normal group. Not that hard.

Sun Lian.4075:

Well maybe you just got lucky, or started raiding way earlier. If you would be in my position right now you’d think otherwise. Cause it really is elitist, there’s no question about that.

The groups you’re talking about are training groups, and they have no real intention on completing the raid, am I supposed to keep joining those a 100 times first and listen to the same explanations in TS until one happens to succeed? As if you would do that yourself.

Oh Snapalope.1378

And dedication? You think I’m not dedicated just because I don’t get to farm or play enough to have full asc gears? That’s the stupidest thing ever, and exactly the problem here. So I’m a “casual” just for having a job and having less time to play than you.
Why do you think I’m so annoyed with this, I’m dedicated enough and want to do raids, and I know I could do well but people like you just won’t give me the chance.

You keep ignoring half of the things I write.
Lucky? I must be the luckiest person in the world then.
I did start early, but also a bit late because I had a pretty long break some time after raids came out, so I had to PuG my way just as much as other people. But how is that related to the topic? do groups ask you when did you start raiding?? never had that.

I would actually do exactly that myself, I did that many times and I continue doing it today after I get my clear.
Why? because I care about improving, and I’d rather fail every attempt than go complain in the forums how mean everyone is.

Yes, they have no intention to succeed, they are TRAINING groups, but eventually after some time training they do! and even if not, you will at least gain more experience / confidence.

I won’t argue whether ascended is hard to get or not (though I do agree it should be a minimum requirement for END GAME content, however many groups will accept exotic armor), but, being dedicated enough to WANT to do raids is not enough, you have to actually do them.
There are plenty of awesome people like

Oh Snapalope.1378

, that give chances, and spend a lot of their time helping people for FREE, the fact that you are not willing to take them is not their fault.

I’m done here,
Good Luck.

Sun Lian.4075:

Yea, right.

As if it’s really necessary and helpful to join a training group a 100 times, please…

Like that, I would have my first successful raid in about 4 months.
So that’s what those oh so dedicated people that now have 50+ LI have been through as well? I really doubt it.

It took my group 12 hours to kill VG the first time. It took even more time, maybe like 20 hours to kill our first Slothazor.

Raid are hard and take dedication. It’s a team based content that need all 10 players to be on experience enough. So ya if you trained for 10 hours on a boss and you think your a good enough, you might have 1 or 2 players in that group that doesn’t have as much experience as you do. They might have just trained for 4 or 5 hours. So you complain about veteran group asking to prove you have experience because they don’t want to waste time with you, but you don’t want to waste time in training group where people there have less experience than you?

Sun Lian.4075:

Well maybe you just got lucky, or started raiding way earlier. If you would be in my position right now you’d think otherwise. Cause it really is elitist, there’s no question about that.

The groups you’re talking about are training groups, and they have no real intention on completing the raid, am I supposed to keep joining those a 100 times first and listen to the same explanations in TS until one happens to succeed? As if you would do that yourself.

WOW and you wanna tell us raiders are toxic while you are saying something like that?

“I don’t want to raid with new players because they are bad and we can’t kill the bosses. I only want to raid with good players so we can kill the bosses!”

You have the EXACT same mindset of those elite players you are complaining about.

Sun Lian.4075:

Yea, right.

As if it’s really necessary and helpful to join a training group a 100 times, please…

Like that, I would have my first successful raid in about 4 months.
So that’s what those oh so dedicated people that now have 50+ LI have been through as well? I really doubt it.

those dedicated people with 50+ LI probably did a lot of fail runs but what they had were other like minded people that kept showing up and figuring it out together.
if you really want to maximize your raid experience then join a guild that does raids. the are tons of casual guild with decent raid groups that don’t expect you to sped 20hr a week raiding

Oh my god would you stop thinking I’m a total noob that has never even joined a raiding group before..

This is what I mean, to you people it’s either you’ve got no idea what you’re doing otherwise you would’ve completed raids already, or you’re already there because you worked really hard. In between that doesn’t exist.

No.. I’m someone that knows what their doing, I’ve already joined quite some training groups and seen enough videos and stuff but I still get denied from the real groups because it’s incredibly elitist.
1 little thing off “meta” and you’re kicked, that’s how bad the end game is in gw2, not just raids. And that’s just a fact.

Sun Lian.4075:

Oh my god would you stop thinking I’m a total noob that has never even joined a raiding group before..

This is what I mean, to you people it’s either you’ve got no idea what you’re doing otherwise you would’ve completed raids already, or you’re already there because you worked really hard. In between that doesn’t exist.

No.. I’m someone that knows what their doing, I’ve already joined quite some training groups and seen enough videos and stuff but I still get denied from the real groups because it’s incredibly elitist.
1 little thing off “meta” and you’re kicked, that’s how bad the end game is in gw2, not just raids. And that’s just a fact.

every single mmo has a meta. this is not a gw2 thing. and honestly why not run the meta build? its the meta build cause it is the most effective so why not use it?

Sun Lian.4075:

Oh my god would you stop thinking I’m a total noob that has never even joined a raiding group before..

This is what I mean, to you people it’s either you’ve got no idea what you’re doing otherwise you would’ve completed raids already, or you’re already there because you worked really hard. In between that doesn’t exist.

No.. I’m someone that knows what their doing, I’ve already joined quite some training groups and seen enough videos and stuff but I still get denied from the real groups because it’s incredibly elitist.
1 little thing off “meta” and you’re kicked, that’s how bad the end game is in gw2, not just raids. And that’s just a fact.

Interesting when I play on a Thief(one of the least meta raid classes in the whole game) and didn’t start raiding till a few months after raids released, you have to find a group of people willing to accept you, but the toxicity you bring to the forum because of pugs and not actual organized raiders, (which there is a big difference.) is just very astounding and I am glad I haven’t had to raid with someone with your attitude. If you are as good as you claim you should have no problem finding a reliable group to raid with.

Sun Lian.4075:

No.. I’m someone that knows what their doing, I’ve already joined quite some training groups and seen enough videos and stuff but I still get denied from the real groups because it’s incredibly elitist.

Yet I can jump into groups all the time with a grand total of 10 insights on characters that are mostly exotic. I’m never even asked to ping gear, 99% of people just say “bring condi engi” or what have you.

Sun Lian.4075:

1 little thing off “meta” and you’re kicked, that’s how bad the end game is in gw2, not just raids. And that’s just a fact.

I get the feeling that you’re running super inefficient builds or are somehow sticking out as underperforming and you’re now blaming it on everyone else. You’re having all of these issues when most people don’t have problems pugging groups and don’t run into the awful, terrible elitists that seem to infest the game you’re playing.

Sun Lian.4075:

Oh my god would you stop thinking I’m a total noob that has never even joined a raiding group before..

This is what I mean, to you people it’s either you’ve got no idea what you’re doing otherwise you would’ve completed raids already, or you’re already there because you worked really hard. In between that doesn’t exist.

No.. I’m someone that knows what their doing, I’ve already joined quite some training groups and seen enough videos and stuff but I still get denied from the real groups because it’s incredibly elitist.
1 little thing off “meta” and you’re kicked, that’s how bad the end game is in gw2, not just raids. And that’s just a fact.

Just out of curiosity, what is that one little thing off “meta” you are running?

Sun Lian.4075:

Oh my god would you stop thinking I’m a total noob that has never even joined a raiding group before..

This is what I mean, to you people it’s either you’ve got no idea what you’re doing otherwise you would’ve completed raids already, or you’re already there because you worked really hard. In between that doesn’t exist.

And how comes that you NEVER joined a “in between” group?

Sun Lian.4075:

No.. I’m someone that knows what their doing, I’ve already joined quite some training groups and seen enough videos and stuff but I still get denied from the real groups because it’s incredibly elitist.
1 little thing off “meta” and you’re kicked, that’s how bad the end game is in gw2, not just raids. And that’s just a fact.

Again you act as if there are only “training groups” and “real groups”. Do you really think you are the only one in your position or what? Are there really no other players in your “experience” level or what?

How comes that others are able to get some progress without any LI? Are they liars?

Also don’t missunderstand I do think that requiring a meta build and LIs aren’t good things. But when experienced pubs want to have a smooth run and there are a lot of “bad” players there aren’t many other options. It’s not 100% bullet proof but it probably works most of the time.

Sun Lian.4075:

Yea, right.

As if it’s really necessary and helpful to join a training group a 100 times, please…

Like that, I would have my first successful raid in about 4 months.
So that’s what those oh so dedicated people that now have 50+ LI have been through as well? I really doubt it.

I had a static group of people who were also new and we played through the content together. Worked on VG for almost 24 hours (not straight, but over several weeks). Then moved to Gors for another length of time and then Sab.

Raids take time to learn. It’s been pointed that there are people willing to train. If you just want the kill you can even pay for that.

I have limited time, but I’m one of those 50 LI people you’re referring too. I have a full time job and family. I’m plenty busy. I just made a choice to use what time I do spend in game learning and perfecting my abilities in raids and guess what I’m decent now.

Ya this position amaze me too. It’s the dungeon thing all over again. Either Sun Lian is part of a almost non existent minority that can’t form any group so the discussion is pointless. Or there is a large enough portion of the player population in the same situation (which I think is the reality), which mean there is plenty of people like him, with the same mindset and they can form group together.

Sun Lian.4075:

am I supposed to keep joining those a 100 times first and listen to the same explanations in TS until one happens to succeed? As if you would do that yourself.

I tell you what and read my post earlier again. Trying for 100s of times and having that 1 success is exactly what people that started raiding on week 1 release did to get to where they are now.

At release we just pug over and over and over again trying to figure out optimal tactics and classes to run. Week 1 VG pugs that I in was took 5 straight hours of practice to finally got the kill. Week 2 Gorseval pugs that I was in literally went for 6 hours straight before killing it and don’t get me started on how many runs the pugs that I was in trying to kill sab at release. Also I played engi for 6 hours straight which isn’t the most fun, but hey this is what dedication is about.

What I said above was called hard work and most of it is already done by people like us. You just have to go in with the correct mindset, listen to what raid training leaders are telling you to run/do, and put in the effort to improve. You guys new to raiding actually have the easier job compared what we had to do before.

Sun Lian.4075:

1 little thing off “meta” and you’re kicked, that’s how bad the end game is in gw2, not just raids. And that’s just a fact.

If this were actually the case I’d get kicked from pubs a lot more frequently. Unless there are hard requirements up-front (ie. the LFG says ping gear and ping LI’s), then people don’t really judge and/or kick people unless they’re very clearly underperforming. And I don’t mean underperforming by ~10% or whatever, I mean underperforming on the order of downing/dying constantly, missing mechanics entirely, or not doing your designated job (ie. A druid that doesn’t heal people or a Herald that never uses F2).

Valik Shin.9027:

every single mmo has a meta. this is not a gw2 thing. and honestly why not run the meta build? its the meta build cause it is the most effective so why not use it?

Because I only have 1 main.

Fermi.2409:

I get the feeling that you’re running super inefficient builds or are somehow sticking out as underperforming and you’re now blaming it on everyone else. You’re having all of these issues when most people don’t have problems pugging groups and don’t run into the awful, terrible elitists that seem to infest the game you’re playing.

Playing condi reaper with viper gears, but apparently condi engi is the way to go now. Got ascended weapons and viper asc trinkets can only be obtained from the raids. Yeah, maybe it’s also because the gear requirement for condi is harder than berserker obviously, but people can understand that right? Cause I get the feeling they don’t with all the requirements, that’s why I blame them. Sorry that I didn’t hop on the berserker train long ago.

Coconut.7082:

Just out of curiosity, what is that one little thing off “meta” you are running?

I don’t know, you tell me. Maybe a lot of people just think reaper is useless.

Rising Dusk.2408:

If this were actually the case I’d get kicked from pubs a lot more frequently. Unless there are hard requirements up-front (ie. the LFG says ping gear and ping LI’s), then people don’t really judge and/or kick people unless they’re very clearly underperforming. And I don’t mean underperforming by ~10% or whatever, I mean underperforming on the order of downing/dying constantly, missing mechanics entirely, or not doing your designated job (ie. A druid that doesn’t heal people or a Herald that never uses F2).

It is the case, everything that’s worth to run is like that and has been all the time. I’ve noticed it since the day I got level 80 on my necromancer, it’s not even that you get kicked because of a wrong build. No, you get kicked for simply not playing the same thing as them, without questions.
The other day I joined a fractal 40 farm, instantly in chat “necro is so kitteng useless” and I’m out of the group. That’s how ridiculous the meta thing is, while it really matters nothing at all in this case. Can you get how annoying that is when you just like to play your class which is my main, and don’t really have the time or gold to get another character that is in meta, according to them?

the only time I have been kicked as a condi reaper is when there were 3 joining a raid at once.

additionally, in fractals, condi reaper carries so hard that smart people won’t kick you until you demonstrate an inability to know when your minions are a hindrance. so either you did that, or you found dumb people.

Sun Lian.4075:

I don’t know, you tell me. Maybe a lot of people just think reaper is useless.

That’s new..
I just finished a raid having two Reapers on all bosses..
Condi Reaper is one of the most desired classes, You can say that Engi is a bit more optimal on VG but 90% of groups these days run with at least one Reaper!
In SP having at least two Reapers is pretty much mandatory.
And in high level fractals, Condi Reaper is really great..

What trinkets are you using? if you have Ascended Sinister, or Exotic Viper (not including backpack) then your build should be fine. It’s not 100% optimized of course but I doubt any PuG group would kick for that.
FYI you can get Viper amulet from HoT achivs, and if you actually tried training you could easily cap weekly shards and buy some trinkets from the raid vendor.

You should really check yourself and stop blaming others.

Or they decided to be that one reaper who joined a group looking for DPS, and they were wearing Dire gear which means they would have to have the tank re-adjust everything.

Pretty simply put it’s easier to get a pug dps, than replace a tank.

You’ll hear a lot of kitten talk in low tier pve content like dungeons and low level fractals. This is because of general misinformation or outdated information. I’m sure people in higher level content are well aware of potential of each class. Only time I’ve had to change class was in a 3 warrior party and I volunteered to do so when they asked because I’m aware of the lack of utility and damage. All warrior being common at one point, now laughable.

Uhhh reapers are sort of broken right now? They down right make T4s a faceroll? Either you have the wrong gear and people found out, or that you simply got really stupid pugs. Most people are smart and know reapers are super broken right now though….

Sun Lian.4075:

It is the case, everything that’s worth to run is like that and has been all the time. I’ve noticed it since the day I got level 80 on my necromancer, it’s not even that you get kicked because of a wrong build. No, you get kicked for simply not playing the same thing as them, without questions.
The other day I joined a fractal 40 farm, instantly in chat “necro is so kitteng useless” and I’m out of the group. That’s how ridiculous the meta thing is, while it really matters nothing at all in this case. Can you get how annoying that is when you just like to play your class which is my main, and don’t really have the time or gold to get another character that is in meta, according to them?

I have not experienced this—even on my Necromancer—in a very long time. It doesn’t happen frequently, and if it does happen to you then you need to realize it’s the players’ fault and should never in any way be representative of the “community”. I have joined groups on PHIW ridiculous builds just for fun and as long as I wasn’t doing particularly terrible people didn’t care. Just keep trying and you’ll find good groups easy enough.

Sun Lian.4075:

The other day I joined a fractal 40 farm, instantly in chat “necro is so kitteng useless” and I’m out of the group. That’s how ridiculous the meta thing is, while it really matters nothing at all in this case. Can you get how annoying that is when you just like to play your class which is my main, and don’t really have the time or gold to get another character that is in meta, according to them?

While I won’t commenting the other stuff about the raiding issue because all the others here have said enough about it (and they are right, you are not), I’ll say some words about farming level 40 fractals.
Condi Necro isn’t useless for T4 fractals but it’s understandable you were kicked out of a farm run group. These groups want to be very fast to melt down the champion and the duo afterwards and repeat the whole thing over and over again. In this situation a condi necro is one of the classes you don’t want to bring in.
Yeah, this group could have made a more proper lfg (like most of the farming ones are doing) in which they state that they want to have certain classes but you really can’t blame them. And you also can’t take this as an excuse for a bad or toxic meta. Running fractals the usual way is working with a condi necro even if it is T4 or not. Nobody will kick you there at the moment. You just joined a very special one.
I recommend a PS warrior, herald, chrono or an ele to go farm level 40. You can go in with exotic gear and some asc trinkets to achieve enough AR for that level. And you also don’t need to have another main for that just know a good dps rotation, easiest here is warrior imho. In these farm groups there are a lot of players not playing their main and that’s for a reason. It’s just stupid farming, almost brain afk to get money.
Be a little flexible here and be smart that’s all. And don’t add this to a non-existent toxic meta environment.

Vinceman.4572:

Sun Lian.4075:

The other day I joined a fractal 40 farm, instantly in chat “necro is so kitteng useless” and I’m out of the group. That’s how ridiculous the meta thing is, while it really matters nothing at all in this case. Can you get how annoying that is when you just like to play your class which is my main, and don’t really have the time or gold to get another character that is in meta, according to them?

While I won’t commenting the other stuff about the raiding issue because all the others here have said enough about it (and they are right, you are not), I’ll say some words about farming level 40 fractals.
Condi Necro isn’t useless for T4 fractals but it’s understandable you were kicked out of a farm run group. These groups want to be very fast to melt down the champion and the duo afterwards and repeat the whole thing over and over again. In this situation a condi necro is one of the classes you don’t want to bring in.
Yeah, this group could have made a more proper lfg (like most of the farming ones are doing) in which they state that they want to have certain classes but you really can’t blame them. And you also can’t take this as an excuse for a bad or toxic meta. Running fractals the usual way is working with a condi necro even if it is T4 or not. Nobody will kick you there at the moment. You just joined a very special one.
I recommend a PS warrior, herald, chrono or an ele to go farm level 40. You can go in with exotic gear and some asc trinkets to achieve enough AR for that level. And you also don’t need to have another main for that just know a good dps rotation, easiest here is warrior imho. In these farm groups there are a lot of players not playing their main and that’s for a reason. It’s just stupid farming, almost brain afk to get money.
Be a little flexible here and be smart that’s all. And don’t add this to a non-existent toxic meta environment.

So I should make an extra character, maybe use the lvl 80 boost or tomes, transfer the trinkets over, make it berserker as my trinkets are also berserker and then use that char only for fractals, since I don’t really like to play berserker except on thief maybe. Definitely not warrior.

All so that the run is 10 sec shorter? Yea, really understandable.

And I know thankfully not everyone is like that but it happens more often than it doesn’t, maybe it depends on what server you’re playing on, I don’t know.

Sun Lian.4075:

Vinceman.4572:

Sun Lian.4075:

The other day I joined a fractal 40 farm, instantly in chat “necro is so kitteng useless” and I’m out of the group. That’s how ridiculous the meta thing is, while it really matters nothing at all in this case. Can you get how annoying that is when you just like to play your class which is my main, and don’t really have the time or gold to get another character that is in meta, according to them?

While I won’t commenting the other stuff about the raiding issue because all the others here have said enough about it (and they are right, you are not), I’ll say some words about farming level 40 fractals.
Condi Necro isn’t useless for T4 fractals but it’s understandable you were kicked out of a farm run group. These groups want to be very fast to melt down the champion and the duo afterwards and repeat the whole thing over and over again. In this situation a condi necro is one of the classes you don’t want to bring in.
Yeah, this group could have made a more proper lfg (like most of the farming ones are doing) in which they state that they want to have certain classes but you really can’t blame them. And you also can’t take this as an excuse for a bad or toxic meta. Running fractals the usual way is working with a condi necro even if it is T4 or not. Nobody will kick you there at the moment. You just joined a very special one.
I recommend a PS warrior, herald, chrono or an ele to go farm level 40. You can go in with exotic gear and some asc trinkets to achieve enough AR for that level. And you also don’t need to have another main for that just know a good dps rotation, easiest here is warrior imho. In these farm groups there are a lot of players not playing their main and that’s for a reason. It’s just stupid farming, almost brain afk to get money.
Be a little flexible here and be smart that’s all. And don’t add this to a non-existent toxic meta environment.

So I should make an extra character, maybe use the lvl 80 boost or tomes, transfer the trinkets over, make it berserker as my trinkets are also berserker and then use that char only for fractals, since I don’t really like to play berserker except on thief maybe. Definitely not warrior.

All so that the run is 10 sec shorter? Yea, really understandable.

And I know thankfully not everyone is like that but it happens more often than it doesn’t, maybe it depends on what server you’re playing on, I don’t know.

There’s also the option to make valkyrie gear and use vit to power food to do nice power dmg with your necro. On the other hand ele is the way to go but this build doesn’t do that much worse and is definitely better than condi necro in said content.

The thing about multiple characters is that some classes perform better in different types of content. Think of them as tools; you want to be the guy with the most versatile kit and also have the knowledge when to use those tools. If you only own a hammer you won’t be wanted to saw planks.

Man, if you’re not open for suggestions and criticism, why are you even here?

Thaddeus.4891:

We all paid for this game, I can’t believe some people actually think their in the fullest right to try to eliminate the end game content other people enjoy, only because they don’t have the skill or the time to do it.

They need to stop setting the bar so ridiculously low all the time.

Uhm… does existence of 1-25 fractals and those who running them eliminating T4 fractals too?

Rednik.3809:

Thaddeus.4891:

We all paid for this game, I can’t believe some people actually think their in the fullest right to try to eliminate the end game content other people enjoy, only because they don’t have the skill or the time to do it.

They need to stop setting the bar so ridiculously low all the time.

Uhm… does existence of 1-25 fractals and those who running them eliminating T4 fractals too?

Nope. The problem Rednik is that even if I agree that raid should have an easier mode with nerfed reward. Nobody agree on what should be done to create an easier mode and what should be the reward. And I saw plenty of solution by some poster that would destroy the current raid even if that wasn’t their goal simply because they don’t have the experience in the current raid to create a solid proposition. For exemple not so long ago someone proposed that the easy mode should be like the current raid but without a timer and that it should only give magnetide shard. Seem good enough proposition, but when you have experience in raid you know that almost zero wipe are because of the timer, it’s because of the pressure and the mechanics so that easy mode would solve zero nada for the people that are currently complaining. Right now the shards are 2/3 of the total reward of the raid because of the Infusion. If you allow people to get their shard from easy mode, there is very little incentive to run the normal raid.

Add to that people that want the same reward, other want to be able to get the skins or the legendary and you have a bloody mess of poposition. Some make sense and could work, but a lot of them would kitten thing out. And raider remember what happen in other game, when the easy mode is poorly implemented and they don’t want that.

So yes to easy mode with nerfed reward, but only if intelligently implemented and so far there were more proposition by inexperienced raider with unintended consequences.

Sun Lian.4075:

Vinceman.4572:

Sun Lian.4075:

The other day I joined a fractal 40 farm, instantly in chat “necro is so kitteng useless” and I’m out of the group. That’s how ridiculous the meta thing is, while it really matters nothing at all in this case. Can you get how annoying that is when you just like to play your class which is my main, and don’t really have the time or gold to get another character that is in meta, according to them?

While I won’t commenting the other stuff about the raiding issue because all the others here have said enough about it (and they are right, you are not), I’ll say some words about farming level 40 fractals.
Condi Necro isn’t useless for T4 fractals but it’s understandable you were kicked out of a farm run group. These groups want to be very fast to melt down the champion and the duo afterwards and repeat the whole thing over and over again. In this situation a condi necro is one of the classes you don’t want to bring in.
Yeah, this group could have made a more proper lfg (like most of the farming ones are doing) in which they state that they want to have certain classes but you really can’t blame them. And you also can’t take this as an excuse for a bad or toxic meta. Running fractals the usual way is working with a condi necro even if it is T4 or not. Nobody will kick you there at the moment. You just joined a very special one.
I recommend a PS warrior, herald, chrono or an ele to go farm level 40. You can go in with exotic gear and some asc trinkets to achieve enough AR for that level. And you also don’t need to have another main for that just know a good dps rotation, easiest here is warrior imho. In these farm groups there are a lot of players not playing their main and that’s for a reason. It’s just stupid farming, almost brain afk to get money.
Be a little flexible here and be smart that’s all. And don’t add this to a non-existent toxic meta environment.

So I should make an extra character, maybe use the lvl 80 boost or tomes, transfer the trinkets over, make it berserker as my trinkets are also berserker and then use that char only for fractals, since I don’t really like to play berserker except on thief maybe. Definitely not warrior.

All so that the run is 10 sec shorter? Yea, really understandable.

And I know thankfully not everyone is like that but it happens more often than it doesn’t, maybe it depends on what server you’re playing on, I don’t know.

I don’t think you understand how the f40 farm works (don’t understand something > blame others! .. I see a pattern here).
If you want to farm this fractal, you really have to finish it quick, and in order to finish it quick you have to kill the Molten Berserker very fast, before he starts shooting fire and teleporting around.
I don’t remember the exact time because I haven’t done this level in some time, but you have about 10 seconds to kill him after breaking his bar, so yes, 10 seconds do matter!
Unlike Berserker classes, Condi classes take some time to reach peak DPS (cuz they have to stack condis ofc), so by the time the Boss should be dead, you will probably not even reach your top DPS.
Of course it is possible to kill him in time even with 4 people, but because you never know what you get when PuGing, PuGs prefer to ask for zerkers to minimize the chance to fail.

Simple, no?

Thaddeus.4891:

For exemple not so long ago someone proposed that the easy mode should be like the current raid but without a timer and that it should only give magnetide shard. Seem good enough proposition, but when you have experience in raid you know that almost zero wipe are because of the timer, it’s because of the pressure and the mechanics so that easy mode would solve zero nada for the people that are currently complaining. Right now the shards are 2/3 of the total reward of the raid because of the Infusion. If you allow people to get their shard from easy mode, there is very little incentive to run the normal raid.

Again, fractals here can be good example. Pretty much best money farm available in fractals is f40 one, and yet majority of t4 runners don’t care about it at all. And T4 don’t really have lots of unique stuff available from them, except for random ascended box here and there and VERY rarely some gold skin (insert sad fractal tonic joke here).

Rednik.3809:

Again, fractals here can be good example. Pretty much best money farm available in fractals is f40 one, and yet majority of t4 runners don’t care about it at all. And T4 don’t really have lots of unique stuff available from them, except for random ascended box here and there and VERY rarely some gold skin (insert sad fractal tonic joke here).

I don’t see how that’s relevant? Fractal 40 isn’t better than Tier 4 in term of reward. It’s only good for farming AFTER you completed Tier 4. If I have only 1 hours to do fractal per day, I won’t be farming Fractal 40. I will be completing my daily Tier 4. Why? Because the reward is better and the content isn’t as boring since I don’t do 15 times the same fractal over and over.

That’s good because nobody choose Fractal 40 over Tier 4. It’s only a complement to the Tier 4 for people that want to farm. That’s how it should work or at least it’s a working system.

But remember just 2 weeks ago? Who were doing fractal 76+?? Ya that’s right nobody except for experiencing the content or completing the achievement.

See two reward system in fractal. One screw up the level 76+ that almost nobody was doing, making it extremely hard for ppl that wanted to play these level to find ppl to complete their group. While the other one incentive people to play whatever level they want.

If anet can screw up the reward so bad with Fractal and that we have to wait 4 months before they fix it, what make you sure that Anet won’t screw up the reward for raid if they add an easy mode? Anet have an history to have bad reward system that take months to fix, even Blizzard did the same mistake in WoW. So you can see why raider are afraid that it could happen right?

There is a real danger here, so are prudent. Can you blame us? We are not against easy mode just because we are kitten.

After debating them for the last months, I don´t think raiders are toxic by nature. The ones that are are real pains in the behind though and should be banned from everything involving other people until they come around. They just have other preferences of what to do with their free time, and that is legit.
Right now, they get what they ask for. Although that personally bugs me because it either forces me to bend over or boycott a part of my favorite game, it is the course Anet follows and I understand that.

I think that boycotting raids from a sustainable number of people, selfdestruction through too high requirements or some other reason will end this theme sooner or later on its own.

Thaddeus.4891:

FrostDraco.8306:

It’s not. Like i said before. Straw man much? Don’t complain about people asking for help, when you are able to help, but wont offer any.

This is exactly what i was talking about. You completely ignored what i said to say I’m somehow ‘demanding’ help. Asking, is not demanding. Or would you just rather we not ask and ‘figure it out ourselves’, because that’s what it sounds like. You did it, so why not make everyone go through the same thing? Even when you can help us have an easier time than you did? Sounds salty, which is a toxic attitude to have.

And why should we offer our help? Like you said, you are asking not demanding. Well we can help if we want, but we are not obligated.

Think about it man. You are saying to other people that they have toxic attitude because they don’t offer YOU some help to make YOUR experience easier than ours. You don’t know anything about any of us except that we won’t offer you our help. I trained about 20 players of my group into raid. I think I did my part and I continue to do my part and I don’t think that I’m alone here. I bet plenty of people that are not help you are helping other. But in the end of the day we have limited time in the game and we can’t help everybody. So please keep your salty and toxic insult to yourself.

Did you even read what i said? I guess not.

The toxicity is NOT someone not helping. Tell toxicity is someone getting there jimmies rustled just because I asked someone who DOES know something for help. Kinda like how in school you’d rather ask a tutor than stare at a book for hours. I personally never had to do that, but it does tend to be more fruitful for some.

You just proved exactly what i said. You think I’m an annoyance for asking for help. You are not obligated to help me, but you are not gonna make me feel bad for asking for information. If you don’t want to help, don’t. I’m happy to keep studying until someone else will. So you can kitten right off with that.

NikeEU.7690:

People who are dedicated towards a goal will do whatever they need to do, people who are merely interested will find excuses to fail.

So you are saying that everyone who ever wanted to become rich and famous and didn’t, wasn’t dedicated? Dude, seriously? Ascended isn’t that much of an investment tbh, but this line of logic is completely false, unless you are willing to break the law.

On a side note. I’ve dropped vipers completely and went back to power. I honestly hated playing viper already and the deathly chill change didn’t help. SO I’ll be happy to play another class if they won’t accept my necro, but i won’t be switching my necro to condi again. I hated it. And if a guild wants to kick me over that? kitten em.

How come still no one have said WoW raids are better? Well, I’ll do it.

WoW raids are better, scrubs.

FrostDraco.8306:

So you are saying that everyone who ever wanted to become rich and famous and didn’t, wasn’t dedicated? Dude, seriously? Ascended isn’t that much of an investment tbh, but this line of logic is completely false, unless you are willing to break the law.

I didn’t say everyone who tries succeeds, please re-read and pay attention to that. You can do everything correctly and put 100% effort and still fail to reach your goals. But the type of people who find excuses to fail will never try in the first place because anything worthwhile requires overcoming some amount of adversity and people who aren’t dedicated can’t overcome adversity.