Guild Wars 2

^ Warrior is also an Easy Mode. I suggest trying something more challenging like Necro, Ranger or Engi. By the ways, why asking for healer-tanking when you actually play in easy mode?

klemen.8439:

To make bosses challanging, the trick is not by making insane damage attacks but to make attacks that you have to survive by harmonizing with others (aka. healer-tank).

Not really. There is nothing inherently skill-based about having to “tank and heal” damage. This is an active combat game. They can make bosses challenging by encouraging active defense and twitch skills.

The Archdiviner in fractals is a great example of this. Can’t dodge a telegraphed (but still quick) hammer bash? You die. Can’t react to him switching targets and hitting you with an auto attack in time? You die. Try to stack in a corner and burst him down without dodging? You die. There is a good reason why this boss and (to a slightly lesser extent) the Dredge Power Suit are the best bosses in fractals.

Yet you seem to not be mighty of the fabulous ability called “reading comprehension”.

Iris Ng.9845:

^ Warrior is also an Easy Mode. I suggest trying something more challenging like Necro, Ranger or Engi. By the ways, why asking for healer-tanking when you actually play in easy mode?

I don’t doubt it’s harder but they most likely use the same technique.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Not really. There is nothing inherently skill-based about having to “tank and heal” damage. This is an active combat game. They can make bosses challenging by encouraging active defense and twitch skills.
The Archdiviner in fractals is a great example of this. Can’t dodge a telegraphed (but still quick) hammer bash? You die. Can’t react to him switching targets and hitting you with an auto attack in time? You die. Try to stack in a corner and burst him down without dodging? You die. There is a good reason why this boss and (to a slightly lesser extent) the Dredge Power Suit are the best bosses in fractals.

I didn’t say anything about fractals because I don’t do them since ANet lowered my personal level from 50 to 30 and gave me no compensation for lost progress. I do know for the fact that it’s not wise to stack on bosses in fractals, however in fractals 10-30, you could still go full melee on most of bosses with a guardian that was providing blinds and blocks (berzerker guardian not healer) and with the maximized damage, bosses didn’t have time to unleash the high damaging attacks (eg. Fire shaman, you only needed to dodge aoe every few sec or if you had aegis that wasn’t even necessary, archdiviner same, with aegis he was unable to get you downed and you did the stages quick enough to avoid aoe attacks and agony (aprox. 20-30 seconds for getting through each stage).

As for the active combat game, you might want to try out some other MMOs like XXXX Online (I think you can find out the name yourself) which has combat mode with dodges and aiming – so much for active combat in GW2 – and yet it has BAM fights and no stack/kill/skip mode. Most bosses in GW2 have attacks which will either one-hit you or damage you really bad and the best way to avoid that is to either have guardian to give blind+aegis or to dodge – with that being said, you can do that with any kind of build. As a berserker you will have to dodge like 3 times in total due to the damage you deal as a whole party where as with more tanky/random build party you will have to dodge a lot more times which will make you much more vulnerable to wiping.

Yeah, I already said that I’m doing speed runs and they are the current meta for dungeons and for me it’s the only way to get money due to my account-bound ‘unlucky’ curse but I didn’t say I like it this way. Moreover, I said I want things to change to become actually challenging to kill but at the same time rewarding. If you make things challenging for yourself like doing Arah solo with necro, yes you will get more challenge but the time you spend doing so won’t be compensated by the reward you get and therefore it’s complete bs.

^ klemen, please. Look at the prime example of Marionnete champions. Have the healers and tankers contributed any thing at all?

By the ways, a friend and I had to carry two of such ‘healer Necro’ and support ‘mesmer’ all the way through Arah P3 last night. Healer Necro couldn’t make any skips, nor remove any conditions, nor tank Lupi long enough to rez the downed people. And the support mesmer couldn’t drop a port for the poor necro nor put any feedback during Lupi.

You are asking for the game to change in a way that the party viability would have to depend on healers and tankers. Yet, those healers and tankers I have seen in dungeons are all with sub-par skills and happily leech off their DPS members without a shred of guilt while fooling themselves with the thought that they are actually doing something. I don’t support that mentality nor believe the game would go to that direction either.

#JoshForemanForPresident

Klemen, so what are you criticizing? Ease of bosses, and Arah, or S/S/S or lack of rewards? If every player had your same level of virtuosity at GW2 then S/S/S and/or tank-healers is going to be trivial. You solo run every piece of PvE content with ease and grace, so regardless of mechanics players like you will master the game. I would argue that you’re the exception and not the rule. I dunno, run things at half-level or self-impose some limits to your available toolset. I really want to know your beef and how a trinity would fix things.

If Anet didn’t want you to use certain skills then they would just put up arbitrary barriers, i.e., invisible walls, FGS rush/WW will end as soon as you hit a wall, WoR fails or is removed, buff boss HP even more, remove dodges, etc. Then, like WoW, a tank will figure out how to gather mobs, whilst DPS AoE/Cleaves everyone down and a healer stacks Healing and just heals all day (assuming they fix boss damage/ CDs).

Iris Ng.9845:

^ klemen, please. Look at the prime example of Marionnete champions. Have the healers and tankers contributed any thing at all?

By the ways, a friend and I had to carry two of such ‘healer Necro’ and support ‘mesmer’ all the way through Arah P3 last night. Healer Necro couldn’t make any skips, nor remove any conditions, nor tank Lupi long enough to rez the downed people. And the support mesmer couldn’t drop a port for the poor necro nor put any feedback during Lupi.

You are asking for the game to change in a way that the party viability would have to depend on healers and tankers. Yet, those healers and tankers I have seen in dungeons are all with sub-par skills and happily leech off their DPS members without a shred of guilt while fooling themselves with the thought that they are actually doing something. I don’t support that mentality nor believe the game would go to that direction either.

#JoshForemanForPresident

I know I write a lot so I can’t blame you for not reading it all xD but I’m only including dungeons and not open world and I’ve also said that in dungeons atm it’s best if you run full berzerker team as you have less chance to wipe due to bosses/mobs getting killed very quickly – which I don’t like but you gotta adapt if you want $$$ right?

Perdition.5981:

Klemen, so what are you criticizing? Ease of bosses, and Arah, or S/S/S or lack of rewards? If every player had your same level of virtuosity at GW2 then S/S/S and/or tank-healers is going to be trivial. You solo run every piece of PvE content with ease and grace, so regardless of mechanics players like you will master the game. I would argue that you’re the exception and not the rule. I dunno, run things at half-level or self-impose some limits to your available toolset. I really want to know your beef and how a trinity would fix things.

If Anet didn’t want you to use certain skills then they would just put up arbitrary barriers, i.e., invisible walls, FGS rush/WW will end as soon as you hit a wall, WoR fails or is removed, buff boss HP even more, remove dodges, etc. Then, like WoW, a tank will figure out how to gather mobs, whilst DPS AoE/Cleaves everyone down and a healer stacks Healing and just heals all day (assuming they fix boss damage/ CDs).

I’m basically criticizing ANet’s approach to dungeons, bosses, rewards and combat mechanics.

They wanted dynamic combat, they got stack/skip/kill.

As it goes for making the game challenging for yourself, as I said before, you can if you want that but you aren’t rewarded for it. You can kill all bosses in Arah and get champ boxes that give you exp scrolls and fine/masterwork items or you can kill all bosses in AC and still get the same reward – no matter the effort you put in so the rewarding system sucks all through out – speaking on my behalf as I didn’t get anything worth more than 50g in 1 year and half where as others got 10+ precursors (people I know) with the same or less amount of effort.

What does this have to do with forming a guild or a group of of like minded individuals that do not wish to stack or skip in dungeons?

If you want to change the game’s system i’d suggest starting a thread with that topic in a different discussion forum and not focus entirely on dungeon centric gameplay because we all know how often those topics get looked at or at the very least responded to here in this subforum. OP has a completely different mission than what you’re talking about, that I for one support. If players who don’t wish to stack and skip start playing together then I have less change of pugging them in my runs.

You’re derailing the purpose of this thread, OP is playing the game as it is, you want to play a different game.

Anything in the dungeon forum naturally gets derailed, if you haven’t noticed the pattern.

klemen.8439:

They wanted dynamic combat, they got stack/skip/kill.

People stack because support has very limited range and it’s easier to cc mobs and they do skip because the reward for killing mobs is not worth it.

Nah, people skip because they are evil.

Wethospu.6437:

Nah, people skip because they are evil.

So if I don’t skip, I’m a good player?

wink

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

klemen.8439:

To make bosses challanging, the trick is not by making insane damage attacks but to make attacks that you have to survive by harmonizing with others (aka. healer-tank).

Not really. There is nothing inherently skill-based about having to “tank and heal” damage. This is an active combat game. They can make bosses challenging by encouraging active defense and twitch skills.

The Archdiviner in fractals is a great example of this. Can’t dodge a telegraphed (but still quick) hammer bash? You die. Can’t react to him switching targets and hitting you with an auto attack in time? You die. Try to stack in a corner and burst him down without dodging? You die. There is a good reason why this boss and (to a slightly lesser extent) the Dredge Power Suit are the best bosses in fractals.

As annoying as he is, Ginva is actually (in a twisted kind of way) a fun fight that promotes good reflexes. Sure, the 360 degree cleave on some of his attacks is just stupid, but keeping myself alive while meleeing I find quite enjoyable. If we used a hammer guard in knight gear or something we could probably co-ordinate burst phases where we just go balls deep with DPS until everyone runs low on HP and then go back to trying to hit him in the back while the player with aggro back pedals or something.

Lindbur.2537:

Anything in the dungeon forum naturally gets derailed, if you haven’t noticed the pattern.

I notice many things, for example you have a thread linked in your signature that contradicts what you just put into writing.

MastaNeenja.1537:

Lindbur.2537:

Anything in the dungeon forum naturally gets derailed, if you haven’t noticed the pattern.

I notice many things, for example you have a thread linked in your signature that contradicts what you just put into writing.

I could go and derail that now if you want.

J Eberle.9312:

MastaNeenja.1537:

Lindbur.2537:

Anything in the dungeon forum naturally gets derailed, if you haven’t noticed the pattern.

I notice many things, for example you have a thread linked in your signature that contradicts what you just put into writing.

I could go and derail that now if you want.

I don’t doubt your powers.

I contradict myself on a daily basis actually, I really don’t care as long as I get it done. If you’re referring to the mentor thread, I’m actually advertising for them, not mentoring or guaranteeing that the mentors skip trash or anything.

Speaking of which…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Is-AH-build-viable-Alternative/page/2#post3620703

I think the arguments for AH here will fit in perfectly with the no stacking philosophy.

When will stacking in dungeons be fixed?

There’s nothing wrong with it so no need to be fixed. If you want to do a fractal/dungeon without stacking then form your own group. Don’t force players to play how you feel they should play. Stacking is a legitimate technique and does not break any rules.

Stacking is for players who can’t handle the game and think it’s too hard, so they need something to make it easier for them. All stacking is is grouping is a corner and pushing buttons there is no skill involved. What is the point if that’s all you need to do?

We have a handy FAQ for this topic!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Forum-FAQ/first#post3472009

You can also group with these folks here, they also don’t like stacking and are happy to play without it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Players-Against-Stacking-Skipping-Stuff/first

Nothing wrong with it, and yet devs will listen to all those people, you will see…

Thanks for the links, it gave me some insight on what I already try to do in the game i.e “p 1 no stacking/no skipping”. It also just made my head hurt with all of the justification of stacking, it is clearly an exploit when players outright make bosses unable to use abilities and attacks. I honestly don’t know what Anet is doing allowing players to simplify their game down to such low levels.

Why did you limit stacking to dungeons? Remove stacking from the entire game.

Leo.8792:

Stacking is for players who can’t handle the game and think it’s too hard, so they need something to make it easier for them. All stacking is is grouping is a corner and pushing buttons there is no skill involved. What is the point if that’s all you need to do?

Stacking is for speed and yes you still need to dodge/aegis/block/blind/reflect/CC.
Solo is for skill.

Bread.7516:

Leo.8792:

Stacking is for players who can’t handle the game and think it’s too hard, so they need something to make it easier for them. All stacking is is grouping is a corner and pushing buttons there is no skill involved. What is the point if that’s all you need to do?

Stacking is for speed and yes you still need to dodge/aegis/block/blind/reflect/CC.
Solo is for skill.

There is no point to it if all you’re doing is standing in a corner hitting buttons, where is the skill in that? You might as well go play some point and click game because that’s all you’re doing.

Leo.8792:

Thanks for the links, it gave me some insight on what I already try to do in the game i.e “p 1 no stacking/no skipping”. It also just made my head hurt with all of the justification of stacking, it is clearly an exploit when players outright make bosses unable to use abilities and attacks. I honestly don’t know what Anet is doing allowing players to simplify their game down to such low levels.

How does positioning on top of eachother (=stacking) make bosses unable to use their attacks?

Leo.8792:

Bread.7516:

Leo.8792:

Stacking is for players who can’t handle the game and think it’s too hard, so they need something to make it easier for them. All stacking is is grouping is a corner and pushing buttons there is no skill involved. What is the point if that’s all you need to do?

Stacking is for speed and yes you still need to dodge/aegis/block/blind/reflect/CC.
Solo is for skill.

There is no point to it if all you’re doing is standing in a corner hitting buttons, where is the skill in that? You might as well go play some point and click game because that’s all you’re doing.

point is speed. running all dungeon paths in a day – time is of the essence.

your experience is probably from garbage parties, and dont point out AC please dont make spider queen an example again because the reason why people stack on that encounter is definitely not the boss herself

why don’t you solo if you want to keep testing yourself, cant handle it? duo/trio etc

This is an MMO and MMO’s take time to get through, this isn’t a little first person shooter that you can sit down and beat in two hours. Welcome to time sinker the MMO. What is the point of playing a game if all you want to do is get through it as fast as possible. You might as well just play another game.

Stacking is exploit. Stacking is evil. Stacking is bad. Stacking is cancer. Stacking is… Ima grab a beer.

Leo.8792:

This is an MMO and MMO’s take time to get through, this isn’t a little first person shooter that you can sit down and beat in two hours. Welcome to time sinker the MMO. What is the point of playing a game if all you want to do is get through it as fast as possible. You might as well just play another game.

Maybe other MMO’s are like that but GW2 is the facebook game of MMO’s. It’s casual and time gated at it’s very core. This is a game with very little actual content and not much in the way of meaningful permanent updates since it’s launch(eg fractals).

Telling others to play another game because you don’t like there playstyle. You’re as hypocritical as the people you’re criticizing. Stop complaining because other people want to do things efficiently.

Leo.8792:

This is an MMO and MMO’s take time to get through, this isn’t a little first person shooter that you can sit down and beat in two hours. Welcome to time sinker the MMO. What is the point of playing a game if all you want to do is get through it as fast as possible. You might as well just play another game.

Sorry if we dont play how YOU want us to.

…so dumb…

I stack how I want, even my money stacks.

We don’t play how the OP wants to play. We all should quit the game.
#logic

Brutal Arts.6307:

Leo.8792:

This is an MMO and MMO’s take time to get through, this isn’t a little first person shooter that you can sit down and beat in two hours. Welcome to time sinker the MMO. What is the point of playing a game if all you want to do is get through it as fast as possible. You might as well just play another game.

Maybe other MMO’s are like that but GW2 is the facebook game of MMO’s. It’s casual and time gated at it’s very core. This is a game with very little actual content and not much in the way of meaningful permanent updates since it’s launch(eg fractals).

Telling others to play another game because you don’t like there playstyle. You’re as hypocritical as the people you’re criticizing. Stop complaining because other people want to do things efficiently.

For one I’m not forcing you to do anything, I’m not holding a gun to your head saying that if you stack I’m going blow your brains out. Maybe you don’t understand how "meaningful Guild Wars can be because all you do is stack and skip and take the easy way out. You are so content with how things are that if someone tries to show you something different you have to get up in arms and attack the person showing you something new. Just to be clear I have stacked before and it’s boring as hell there is no enjoyment in it for me. When is the last time you full cleared a dungeon or did a boss with out skipping even though you knew you could. By calling Guild Wars 2 a facebook game you are insulting Arena net by comparing their game to such lows as farmville. How do you know how much content is in something if all you do is skim the top of what is actually there. Go on and gang up and attack the person who dares to voice his own opinion that does not fit with the masses of people. Shoot down my distant ideals of a game where people actually play and not mindlessly walk through rolling their faces on the keyboard.

Pros of stacking
- It bunches up the whole team, so boon sharing is guaranteed, this is especially important for guardians who need to apply Aegis to the whole team
- Smart use of line of sight pathing allows a coordinated team to bunch up a group of mobs that would otherwise take too long to kill individually, since cleave autoattacks basically deal ~3x the damage they normally would do (3 targets, so 3x damage)
- If someone goes down, the rest of the team can quickly pick him up
- Stacking maximises the potential of certain skills, eg. Whirlwind Attack, Fiery Rush, etc.

Cons of stacking
- Because the whole party is bunched up and in one spot, they are highly susceptible to cleaves and AoEs on the spot

Yeah, that’s about it, I think. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

You also mentioned the Spider Queen in AC and how stacking negates her attack. You are quite wrong that it is stacking itself that negates the poison AoE. The queen will use her poison AoE if and ONLY if her target is not in melee range. As long as her target is in melee, the rest of the party can safely range (cough cough)provided they do not attract her attention. This might seem like it needs a tank, but no you don’t, given the absence of a trinity it means damage always wins out, but that’s another topic the other regulars can fill you in on.

If you really believe MMOs should be slow, try something like RuneScape, I’m pretty sure it’s slow enough, and even there people will always be finding the fastest way as well. We will play how we want. Our interest is in faster, more efficient runs, not roleplaying and screaming “I have slain this vicious beast!”, or something like that.

Quoting from the other thread about stacking:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

A while back someone in this forum made a “Kill All Monsters” guild that was about this very same thing. Nobody joined and the guild died of inactivity.

What happens is a lot of carebears talk a good game about wanting no stacking, anything goes runs but when faced with the reality of a 1 hour AC path 1, they don’t show up. So really think about what you are asking for, and if you are really committed to the concept enough to keep such a guild alive.

Pros of stacking:
No skill is needed

Cons of stacking:
less fun and enjoyment of game.
No reason to even play the game if the main goal is to rush through it
A lack of skill

You could also try a game called WoW I hear that all you do is push buttons in that game too.

Leo.8792:

Pros of stacking:
No skill is needed

Of course stacking doesn’t require skill. It’s just standing on top of each other. What does require skill however is beating the encounter which you are employing stacking for. It’s a technique. Just because players are stacked doesn’t mean the mobs will not use their attacks, stacking actually makes it more dangerous to get hit because a single AoE can hit all 5 people in the stack, like Risen Illusionists and Mages in Arah. There are more reasons, but this is what I can offer right now.

Leo.8792:

Cons of stacking:
less fun and enjoyment of game.

This is subjective, see below. Also, I absolutely detest slow runs.

Leo.8792:

No reason to even play the game if the main goal is to rush through it

What is the reason we play games for? Fun. We have fun in our own ways, if it is not fun for you, it’s not our problem. You can go and run in groups without stacking too, but I believe the general consensus is that no stack groups actually cause more grief in their participants than stacking groups because of the higher chances of wiping. ArenaNet did not set down any goals for us players when they created this game, the goal of rushing through dungeons was created by speedclearers who wanted to test their mettle against what the devs had created. It’s just a time trial.

Leo.8792:

A lack of skill

See above.

Leo.8792:

You could also try a game called WoW I hear that all you do is push buttons in that game too.

I heard it was a MMO, not a piano.

This kind of thread always seems to come from players who haven’t graduated from AC. Try “stacking” on bosses without understanding mechanics on high lvl fractal with a group that is also not used to doing so. Also please livestream it.

Nikaido strikes again!

I am where you want me to be, namely here. What were you hoping to accomplish by directing me somewhere?

This is getting interesting.

Best thread of the week!

Ayrilana.1396:

There’s nothing wrong with it so no need to be fixed. If you want to do a fractal/dungeon without stacking then form your own group. Don’t force players to play how you feel they should play. Stacking is a legitimate technique and does not break any rules.

There is an activity you may find extremely exciting considering the way you think: Champion trains in Queensdale. Or it takes too much effort to do it, since there is no stacking but just spam #1? o.O

I’m always surprised by the people just barging into the dungeon forums for the first time and calling us bad…. Anyhow, we play how we want and expect not to be attacked because of it. If the OPs intention was really just to ask when it will be fixed, he would nothave felt the need to continue this thread, as it was answered ages ago. the devs are on our side today(I know, surprising, right?), respect their decision and leave it at that please.

Leo.8792:

Go on and gang up and attack the person who dares to voice his own opinion that does not fit with the masses of people. Shoot down my distant ideals of a game where people actually play and not mindlessly walk through rolling their faces on the keyboard.

I find it interesting that you say that people are ganging up and attacking you. You are the one to start with the inflammatory accusations.
“Stacking is for players who can’t handle the game and think it’s too hard” I do believe you said.

Leo.8792:

How do you know how much content is in something if all you do is skim the top of what is actually there.

The people of this subforum have run these dungeons countless times and explored a myriad of tactics. They probably have more in-depth knowledge of the run than you do.

Leo.8792:

it is clearly an exploit when players outright make bosses unable to use abilities and attacks.

If stacking to prevent Spider Queen from AoEing you is an exploit, then using Ranged attacks to prevent monsters from meleeing you is an exploit.

Leo.8792:

This is an MMO and MMO’s take time to get through

Certainly. But does that mean that the longer you take to get through a dungeon, the better the experience? If you took 4 hours to do CoF P1 instead of 7 minutes, did you have a better experience? It doesn’t mean that your experience was better at all.

One thing that you CAN do with games is improve your ability to play it. And an easy metric to measure your increase in skill is to cut the time in which you complete a dungeon run.

But seriously, why make this thread? ANet has never addressed stacking as an exploit. It’s wiser to live and let live. Make parties that are no stack/no skip and enjoy your game your way. Let other people enjoy their game their way.

Oooooh, looks like OP already made his own guild before coming here . Sneaky sneaky

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/guilds/recruitment/NSTX-The-no-stacking-or-skipping-guild

Leo.8792:

Bread.7516:

Leo.8792:

Stacking is for players who can’t handle the game and think it’s too hard, so they need something to make it easier for them. All stacking is is grouping is a corner and pushing buttons there is no skill involved. What is the point if that’s all you need to do?

Stacking is for speed and yes you still need to dodge/aegis/block/blind/reflect/CC.
Solo is for skill.

There is no point to it if all you’re doing is standing in a corner hitting buttons, where is the skill in that? You might as well go play some point and click game because that’s all you’re doing.

Not sure if you have realised this. But every video game involves just pressing buttons.