Guild Wars 2

TheRandomGuy.7246:

STIHL.2489:

egotistical elitist entitled jerks

Could you please make a list of things they are entitled to? It would be very useful.

Complete Access to the game I paid for. In case you missed this, I paid for this game, and the Expansion that went with it. Any Skill, Any Time Investment is nothing, compared to cold cash that keeps their lights on.

If Anet does not want to make content for it’s Paying players like me, or wants to cater some other group, then they can expect me to stop paying into this game, Hope you all pick up the slack.

But, yah, I am entitled to Full Access to the Gear, Content, and Aspects, in a way that I enjoy, and if that means I don’t want to deal with elitist jerks, then so be it.

if you thought your investment into this game meant anything, you’re wrong, your skill is pointless, your time spent is worthless, the only thing that matters is dead presidents, which is something I had been providing.

If they want me to keep providing, they better start to build stuff that makes me feel like a special kittening snowflake.

Because, remember this well, I don’t owe them, or you a kitten thing, I don’t care how much you love raids, if what they make is not making me happy, I am not going to support your game mode with my money. Keep that in mind the next time you’re swiping the credit card, make sure to buy a whole lot more to cover what I’m no longer buying.

STIHL.2489:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

STIHL.2489:

egotistical elitist entitled jerks

Could you please make a list of things they are entitled to? It would be very useful.

Complete Access to the game I paid for. In case you missed this, I paid for this game, and the Expansion that went with it. Any Skill, Any Time Investment is nothing, compared to cold cash that keeps their lights on.

If Anet does not want to make content for it’s Paying players like me, or wants to cater some other group, then they can expect me to stop paying into this game, Hope you all pick up the slack.

But, yah, I am entitled to Full Access to the Gear, Content, and Aspects, in a way that I enjoy, and if that means I don’t want to deal with elitist jerks, then so be it.

if you thought your investment into this game meant anything, you’re wrong, your skill is pointless, your time spent is worthless, the only thing that matters is dead presidents, which is something I had been providing.

If they want me to keep providing, they better start to build stuff that makes me feel like a special kittening snowflake.

Because, remember this well, I don’t owe them, or you a kitten thing, I don’t care how much you love raids, if what they make is not making me happy, I am not going to support your game mode with my money. Keep that in mind the next time you’re swiping the credit card, make sure to buy a whole lot more to cover what I’m no longer buying.

This argument makes no sense. Arenanet are not stopping you from accessing the raid, you have as much ability to enter it as anyone else does. And painting all raiders with one brush makes no sense. I raid, with 9 other players, all of who like each others’ company.

Using your argument, I paid for this game, have access to the forum, should be have to not deal with people like you making inane arguments and insinuating all raiders are terrible evil villains, so what then? Arenanet needs to remove you?

Btw, I highly doubt Arenanet is too concerned about losing the few ‘mememememinime’ audience they’ve procured since launching raids. Every game has them, just like how every game has those people who shell out thousands of $ for in game stuff. Unless you’re that high roller you really have no high horse to sit on.

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Wait, and now here is the kicker. Just as you say how very much you don’t care about the progress or deeds made by another player because all that matters is you. Everyone else also has the capacity to give zero kittens about what you think, want, or need. Remember, this is still just applying your own argument against you. Nothing you say or do will actually influence anyone in any way that can be corroborated as your singular contribution to the direction of this game. So continue to wail as you might, because I’ve already applied more attention to this than necessary.

STIHL.2489:

I was raiding 15 years ago in EQ when death could cost you levels, and people could loot/kill steal. Blah, Blah, Blah, I all that and a whole bag of chips, look at how great I am, or some such.

You only lose time and a bit gold due to bufffood. You don’t lose levels and nobody can steal your loot. Raids in GW2 don’t work like that. I’m sure you knew that so it’s a bit confusing why you mentioned it here.

STIHL.2489:

I should also have the right to choose who I play with, and a part of that, should not be being forced to deal with egotistical elitist entitled jerks that think they are better then other people.

But sadly, Raids cater to that very exact demographic. Starting to see the problem yet?

That is absolutely not true. Yes, there are elitist lfgs out there like in almost every lfg section – mostly raids, dungeons and fractals but I’ve also seen them for many world bosses and even for story achievement groups. Just leave them out and take one of the other groups. Tbh comparing raid elitism to fractal elitism the elitist lfg entries have shifted to fractals these days but that’s just my personal experience over the last weeks.
Nvmd, till my last log out of the game there were many friendly raid lfgs and groups not doing a teaching run but still explaining the core mechanics again even though they were listed as an experienced one. And you have a big group of advertised training runs + guilds looking for even inexperienced raiders.

STIHL.2489:

Complete Access to the game I paid for. In case you missed this, I paid for this game, and the Expansion that went with it. Any Skill, Any Time Investment is nothing, compared to cold cash that keeps their lights on.

Here lies the problem. You have access to, the same access you have to PvP and WvW which in my case are things I don’t want to play but they have nice rewards. In your eyes I would be locked out from them.

But that’s wrong. I exclude myself from it with not playing.

I could but I don’t and so it is more than ok that I don’t get PvP and WvW titles and I won’t be in the favour of wearing the legendary PvP backpiece.

Vinceman.4572:

I’m sure you knew that so it’s a bit confusing why you mentioned it here.

It was to point out how worthless your efforts are in the scheme of things, how inane it is try and brag about game accomplishments to make yourself sound superior or better then someone else, no one cares if you raided in this game, or the last 20 that came out.

No one cares about what you have done, and they are not going to be impressed, that was my point. Why people continue to think this matters is beyond me, did you really think anyone cares what you have done? No one does, no one here cares what you have done on either side of the discussion the only thing they care about is their own loot and pride, if you raid, you’re just a tool that other people use to progress towards their own loot, thanks for showing up and not sucking so that I can get my loot.. whoever the kitten you are.

I played MMO’s since MMO’s existed, the last 17 years of them, and Been doing Text Based Online MUD’s since the AOL Days in 92. But do you care, does that suddenly mean something? Nope, not to you, so why do you think anything you have done, means something to me or anyone else?

I have seen first hand dozens of MMO’s rise and fall, I have I read everything all of you had said a hundred times over, sure, I’ve even said such stupidity myself when I started out playing MMO’s, realizing now, looking back how truly foolish I was to believe such nonsense.

I’ve said all I think I can say in this topic, but I’ll close with this, and you don’t need to believe what I am about to say, and frankly I don’t care if you do, But Let me clue you in, in the last 16 years, the arguments you’re using have not changed, and they are all bull kitten, because you’re trying to tell someone else to have fun on your terms, and it never works like that. Never.

STIHL.2489:

Vinceman.4572:

I’m sure you knew that so it’s a bit confusing why you mentioned it here.

It was to point out how worthless your efforts are in the scheme of things, how inane it is try and brag about game accomplishments to make yourself sound superior or better then someone else, no one cares if you raided in this game, or the last 20 that came out.

No one cares about what you have done, and they are not going to be impressed, that was my point. Why people continue to think this matters is beyond me, did you really think anyone cares what you have done? No one does, no one here cares what you have done on either side of the discussion the only thing they care about is their own loot and pride, if you raid, you’re just a tool that other people use to progress towards their own loot, thanks for showing up and not sucking so that I can get my loot.. whoever the kitten you are.

I played MMO’s since MMO’s existed, the last 17 years of them, and Been doing Text Based Online MUD’s since the AOL Days in 92. But do you care, does that suddenly mean something? Nope, not to you, so why do you think anything you have done, means something to me or anyone else?

I have seen first hand dozens of MMO’s rise and fall, I have I read everything all of you had said a hundred times over, sure, I’ve even said such stupidity myself when I started out playing MMO’s, realizing now, looking back how truly foolish I was to believe such nonsense.

I’ve said all I think I can say in this topic, but I’ll close with this, and you don’t need to believe what I am about to say, and frankly I don’t care if you do, But Let me clue you in, in the last 16 years, the arguments you’re using have not changed, and they are all bull kitten, because you’re trying to tell someone else to have fun on your terms, and it never works like that. Never.

It’s the same for your arguments. They are used over and over and there is still no proof that multiple difficulties are good for MMORPGs.
In fact the prime example WoW is on a decline since they introduced multiple difficulties.

The only thing that can keep players is content diversity. Forcing all players into the same content will always fail, not all players enjoy the same things.
Creating difficulties drains ressources that could be used for other content instead the same content in multiple versions.
More difficulty scales means the content is consumed faster while the ressources needed to create it are higher, if you need to complete multiple scales it promotes content burnout and makes people leave faster.

There will always appear content you don’t like. Should everything be altered to fit your needs? What about players that still don’t like it? Another difficulty scale? Where do we stop?

Miellyn.6847:

STIHL.2489:

Vinceman.4572:

I’m sure you knew that so it’s a bit confusing why you mentioned it here.

It was to point out how worthless your efforts are in the scheme of things, how inane it is try and brag about game accomplishments to make yourself sound superior or better then someone else, no one cares if you raided in this game, or the last 20 that came out.

No one cares about what you have done, and they are not going to be impressed, that was my point. Why people continue to think this matters is beyond me, did you really think anyone cares what you have done? No one does, no one here cares what you have done on either side of the discussion the only thing they care about is their own loot and pride, if you raid, you’re just a tool that other people use to progress towards their own loot, thanks for showing up and not sucking so that I can get my loot.. whoever the kitten you are.

I played MMO’s since MMO’s existed, the last 17 years of them, and Been doing Text Based Online MUD’s since the AOL Days in 92. But do you care, does that suddenly mean something? Nope, not to you, so why do you think anything you have done, means something to me or anyone else?

I have seen first hand dozens of MMO’s rise and fall, I have I read everything all of you had said a hundred times over, sure, I’ve even said such stupidity myself when I started out playing MMO’s, realizing now, looking back how truly foolish I was to believe such nonsense.

I’ve said all I think I can say in this topic, but I’ll close with this, and you don’t need to believe what I am about to say, and frankly I don’t care if you do, But Let me clue you in, in the last 16 years, the arguments you’re using have not changed, and they are all bull kitten, because you’re trying to tell someone else to have fun on your terms, and it never works like that. Never.

It’s the same for your arguments. They are used over and over and there is still no proof that multiple difficulties are good for MMORPGs.

This is not my Argument

The only thing that can keep players is content diversity. Forcing all players into the same content will always fail, not all players enjoy the same things.

This was my point. Good that we agree.

STIHL.2489:

Miellyn.6847:

STIHL.2489:

Vinceman.4572:

I’m sure you knew that so it’s a bit confusing why you mentioned it here.

It was to point out how worthless your efforts are in the scheme of things, how inane it is try and brag about game accomplishments to make yourself sound superior or better then someone else, no one cares if you raided in this game, or the last 20 that came out.

No one cares about what you have done, and they are not going to be impressed, that was my point. Why people continue to think this matters is beyond me, did you really think anyone cares what you have done? No one does, no one here cares what you have done on either side of the discussion the only thing they care about is their own loot and pride, if you raid, you’re just a tool that other people use to progress towards their own loot, thanks for showing up and not sucking so that I can get my loot.. whoever the kitten you are.

I played MMO’s since MMO’s existed, the last 17 years of them, and Been doing Text Based Online MUD’s since the AOL Days in 92. But do you care, does that suddenly mean something? Nope, not to you, so why do you think anything you have done, means something to me or anyone else?

I have seen first hand dozens of MMO’s rise and fall, I have I read everything all of you had said a hundred times over, sure, I’ve even said such stupidity myself when I started out playing MMO’s, realizing now, looking back how truly foolish I was to believe such nonsense.

I’ve said all I think I can say in this topic, but I’ll close with this, and you don’t need to believe what I am about to say, and frankly I don’t care if you do, But Let me clue you in, in the last 16 years, the arguments you’re using have not changed, and they are all bull kitten, because you’re trying to tell someone else to have fun on your terms, and it never works like that. Never.

It’s the same for your arguments. They are used over and over and there is still no proof that multiple difficulties are good for MMORPGs.

This is not my Argument

The only thing that can keep players is content diversity. Forcing all players into the same content will always fail, not all players enjoy the same things.

This was my point. Good that we agree.

It is your point. You said you are entitled to access/complete all content but on the other hand you think content diversity is good.
Content diversity always leads to content you don’t like or can’t complete.
You can’t choose both without creating the problems i wrote in the last post.

Harper.4173:

Let me clue you in friend – I was there on raid release. I put in countless hours into VG, then Gorse, then Sab and so on. I learned, I improved, I got better. We all did.

STIHL you really are a special case aren’t you? Where exactly did Harper say he’s in any way better than anyone else or anyone who has not raided before?

No one here claims they are superior just because we raid.

The only thing we are trying to communicate to players qqing about not be able to access raids is that they CAN access raids whenever they want. You want to learn the lore (however little there is) – go into a cleared instance (I can open one for you every week if you’re on EU) and read the notes to your heart’s content.

You want to go in and actually kill the boss? Well there’s options:

1. Click on the party panel – click on create squad – enter instance – (now the tricky apparently impossible to accomplish task) – post a LFG saying something in the likes of “new player looking to learn raids” – super hard right? (oh, there’s been text and video guides out since the raids released)
2. Go into LFG – click on Raids Looking for More – look for something like “raid teaching runs” – I see at least a couple of them every single day.
3. Go into the Looking for section of the forum – find a raid teaching guild – send a message – learn, try out, like/dislike

Raids are not exclusive, they are not hard, the gear requirement is void as has been proven x number of times.

Btw. yesterday I pugged daily tier 4 mossman and immediately noticed our necro and thief would get insta killed (not downed, killed) every time they got hit. This left me, another war and a guard to trio mossy. We did wipe once, so in the pause I asked the thief to honestly say if he actually had any AR, he said he said he had like 64 (104ish required) but he claimed to have done them before (he was ranging so go figure). Our necro was just afk auto attacking from max range. Did it bother us that we had to carry them, maybe, did we do something about it? no, because fractals are super easy. Raids are not, and I bet not everyone wants to carry 4 (20%) of their squad through a boss kill because they can’t be bothered to get the minimum required to attempt the content (thief said he was working on getting more AR so there’s a person I won’t mind tagging along with in the future).

STIHL.2489:

[quote=6200667;Harper.4173

I have a right to choose who I play with -and I choose to play with people that worked hard just like me – not ones that joined late and expect to be carried.

I should also have the right to choose who I play with, and a part of that, should not be being forced to deal with egotistical elitist entitled jerks that think they are better then other people.

But sadly, Raids cater to that very exact demographic. Starting to see the problem yet?

You aren’t being forced to deal with egotistical elitists. When you have to deal with them. You choose to join an elite groop. If they asked for experienced players and you are not. Then you are the problem not them. I know people who do every boss 2-3 times a week to help out friends. To learn new people how to clear the bosses. To train new people in specific mechanics. I do it myself to. But am I being selfish that i first want to secure the boss kills myself? Ofcourse not. try to search for training runs at the end of the week (friday/staturday/sunday) I see a lot of training runs on LFG just join them. Only requirement is that you have the right build for the character your going with (logic duh). Don’t expect to join a groop at the start of the week ( monday/thusday) because they first want to secure the kills for themselves. are they being selfish? No because a lot of those people are helping others later on the week.

STIHL.2489:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

STIHL.2489:

egotistical elitist entitled jerks

Could you please make a list of things they are entitled to? It would be very useful.

Complete Access to the game I paid for. In case you missed this, I paid for this game, and the Expansion that went with it. Any Skill, Any Time Investment is nothing, compared to cold cash that keeps their lights on.

If Anet does not want to make content for it’s Paying players like me, or wants to cater some other group, then they can expect me to stop paying into this game, Hope you all pick up the slack.

But, yah, I am entitled to Full Access to the Gear, Content, and Aspects, in a way that I enjoy, and if that means I don’t want to deal with elitist jerks, then so be it.

if you thought your investment into this game meant anything, you’re wrong, your skill is pointless, your time spent is worthless, the only thing that matters is dead presidents, which is something I had been providing.

If they want me to keep providing, they better start to build stuff that makes me feel like a special kittening snowflake.

Because, remember this well, I don’t owe them, or you a kitten thing, I don’t care how much you love raids, if what they make is not making me happy, I am not going to support your game mode with my money. Keep that in mind the next time you’re swiping the credit card, make sure to buy a whole lot more to cover what I’m no longer buying.

You are trying to say that raiders did not pay for the expansion and have less rights than you?
And no. You are not entitled to any of that. All you are entitled to is technical support and access to gw2 servers. Turns out you are the only real entitled elitist in this thread.

munki.6402:

Harper.4173:

The Zealous Templar.3861:

Thank you for clearly showing the problem here, see, anyone that wants to raid, has to deal with 9 other entitled jerks to do the content. See the problem now?

Or they could find like-minded people of which there seem to be plenty of on these forums and play with them instead? (Pretty obvious why they don’t want to do that but that’s a different matter).

If your “problem” is group content then MMO’s aren’t the genre for you, there are plenty of single player games where you don’t have to interact with anyone. Expecting an MMO to relinquish its group content is amongst the dumbest things you’ve said.

No – they can’t. Do you know why? Because somehow in the way he sees it if an inexperienced or new player wants to do the content I’m doing I’m somehow obligated to take him along and help and teach him.

In his confusion he’s mistaken me for a tutorial system that Anet never made. Because my playtime, satisfaction or enjoyment of the game don’t matter – what matters is that “new players get into raids lel”.

The raids are there – you can open them anytime.
The LFG tool is there – you’re free to use it.
The forums are here – you can look for a guild ( or use reddit, or google).

You have the tools to fix your problem – but do it yourself – don’t expect others to.

Wow … message received. I will continue to stay away from raids.

I’m glad to see that instead of understanding what I wrote and trying to put it in practice you have decided to take the easy route and just not do it.
Because telling people to work for themselves is a surefire way to make them understand to stay away from the content.

STIHL.2489:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

STIHL.2489:

egotistical elitist entitled jerks

Could you please make a list of things they are entitled to? It would be very useful.

Complete Access to the game I paid for. In case you missed this, I paid for this game, and the Expansion that went with it. Any Skill, Any Time Investment is nothing, compared to cold cash that keeps their lights on.

If Anet does not want to make content for it’s Paying players like me, or wants to cater some other group, then they can expect me to stop paying into this game, Hope you all pick up the slack.

But, yah, I am entitled to Full Access to the Gear, Content, and Aspects, in a way that I enjoy, and if that means I don’t want to deal with elitist jerks, then so be it.

if you thought your investment into this game meant anything, you’re wrong, your skill is pointless, your time spent is worthless, the only thing that matters is dead presidents, which is something I had been providing.

If they want me to keep providing, they better start to build stuff that makes me feel like a special kittening snowflake.

Because, remember this well, I don’t owe them, or you a kitten thing, I don’t care how much you love raids, if what they make is not making me happy, I am not going to support your game mode with my money. Keep that in mind the next time you’re swiping the credit card, make sure to buy a whole lot more to cover what I’m no longer buying.

Hmm aren’t you able to get in raids? Aren’t you able to join the HoT maps. You have acces to every bit of the game. If you do not want to go their. That’s your fault not theirs

You can get every piece of armor/weapons/trinkets. But does it mean that you have to be able to enjoy how you get it? No. I’m not going to buy a shooter game and then complain that I want only mellee combat in it. You bought HoT knowing their would be raids. Logically speaking their would be rewards entangled to raids So you knew their would be specific things you could only get through raids. So you bought this knowing this. And except if you paying a couple of 100 000 bucks to the game. I don’t think they will even notice if you stopped buying gems or expansions. Every player you see running around has bought HoT. Most of them bought the original gw2 so don’t think your the only funds Anet has.

munki.6402:

Razor.9872:

munki.6402:

Harper.4173:

The Zealous Templar.3861:

Thank you for clearly showing the problem here, see, anyone that wants to raid, has to deal with 9 other entitled jerks to do the content. See the problem now?

Or they could find like-minded people of which there seem to be plenty of on these forums and play with them instead? (Pretty obvious why they don’t want to do that but that’s a different matter).

If your “problem” is group content then MMO’s aren’t the genre for you, there are plenty of single player games where you don’t have to interact with anyone. Expecting an MMO to relinquish its group content is amongst the dumbest things you’ve said.

No – they can’t. Do you know why? Because somehow in the way he sees it if an inexperienced or new player wants to do the content I’m doing I’m somehow obligated to take him along and help and teach him.

In his confusion he’s mistaken me for a tutorial system that Anet never made. Because my playtime, satisfaction or enjoyment of the game don’t matter – what matters is that “new players get into raids lel”.

The raids are there – you can open them anytime.
The LFG tool is there – you’re free to use it.
The forums are here – you can look for a guild ( or use reddit, or google).

You have the tools to fix your problem – but do it yourself – don’t expect others to.

Wow … message received. I will continue to stay away from raids.

You don’t have to stay away from raids out-right. Just be sure to not join groups that are grouping for an experienced-only kill — unless you reach a point you are experienced yourself. You can do this by forming your own practice/teaching/learning runs, or joining a guild that is specialized towards such things.

Just try to think in their shoes; imagine that you are only really rewarded for beating something challenging, and need 9 other people to help you do it. You only have a couple hours to get it done, and success depends entirely on the competency of your group. So you post in lfg for people who can be on “your level” and beat the boss in 1-6ish tries. However, despite posting for those experienced, people join you who may not even know all the mechanics. You really don’t have the time to explain how everything works — you advertised for a group that could hit the ground running. So you kick that person or whatnot, and are called out for being “an elitist jerk.”

That is not to say there are not elitist jerks out there, but the problem is a two-way street.

I appreciate your response and I do not join such groups. But I simply don’t have time for this kind of vitriol, so I will opt to stay away.

So if I make a group that looks for experienced players and an inexperienced player joins – kicking him is somehow vitriol? Wow.

STIHL.2489:

I was raiding 15 years ago in EQ when death could cost you levels, and people could loot/kill steal. Blah, Blah, Blah, I all that and a whole bag of chips, look at how great I am, or some such.
Let me clue you in friend no one cares.

I care – I care about the time I put in. Putting in the time then means I have it easier now.
If you didn’t put in the time then it will be harder. It’s not my fault people weren’t there on raid day one.
I didn’t say that I raided on day 1 to brag – I said it to explain WHY I have it easy now. I have it easy because I’ve been doing it a long time.

I should also have the right to choose who I play with, and a part of that, should not be being forced to deal with egotistical elitist entitled jerks that think they are better then other people.
But sadly, Raids cater to that very exact demographic. Starting to see the problem yet?

You do have the right to choose who you play with – and as long as that right still respects mine you’re free to go about your business.
Being “forced to deal with egotistical elitist jerks” is just part of the “finding people” problem.
By your logic I have the similar right to not have to do with “carebear newbie beginners” that think that I owe it to them to play together.

There is no problem – you’re making it into one by showing up and demanding people want to play with you.

I read here on the Forum that a 3% of the WoW players do raids. I don’t know the exact number of the WoW accounts, but I suppose 5 millions can be an OK estimation. So, 3% from 5 kk means around 150 k raiders in WoW.
Let’s see an Anet statement (around 2 months ago) – they stated that in a month they had around 3 millions logins from GW2 accounts. That means around 100 000 per day. We can safely suppose that this is the hard core of the player base – the players logging daily into the game.
Again Anet – they stated (2 months ago) that the number of HoT licenses sold up to that date was between 300 – 400 k.
And now:
1. Considering that all the daily logins were from HoT owners, that means Anet lost already around 75% from the HoT buyers. But that 100 k per day does not means only HoT owners – that means HoT owners + F2P + nonHoT payed accounts. That means the HoT owners logging in the game is less than 100k. So Anet lost even more than 75% from the HoT buyers. This is the first conclusion.
2. Anet states that the percentage of raiders in GW2 is better than in other games. Using WoW as a reference (3%) we can say that more than 3% of players raids in GW2. How much more?? Unknown. Let’s suppose 5%. This 5% from 100 k players, translated in numbers, means around 5k raiders. Compare with 150k in WoW.
The statistics is good to explain some aspects. But without real numbers to make a real comparation, the percentage can give a wrong picture.
To go back to the first conclusion – Anet lost over 75% of the HoT buyers. Why? Well – HoT is a product different of what the traditional playerbase liked (and for this reason they come here from WoW and other games). I won’t write here again all the reasons – you can read it on the Forum. But I will remind one – the raids, because this is the subject of the topic. The raids :-)))
Looking at the percentage, you can easily see how many of the GW2 players have a good opinion about raids: around 5% :-)). The rest consider the raids as a bad thing, not only not helping the game, but moreover, destroying it (and dividing the community).
So, to repair this and to stop the game loosing players, Anet released (in the period after HoT) only raids. Sacrificing the Legendary weapons for the sake of the raids. Sacrificing the Fractals (the other end game content for HoT) for the sake of raids. Sacrificing the (filthy) casuals for the sake of the raids. And so on.
The result can be seen in the game already – the gem prices in gold is raising and raising. Why?
1. The percentage of players buying gems with gold is higher now – because a lot of the (filthy) casuals gave up and the hard core of the player base needs almost nothing involving RL from gemstore – they had a lot of gold.
2. The few (filthy) casuals remaining in the game are now more reluctant to spend RL money on gems – they are waiting a sign that Anet will repair what they destroyed. And what is Anet doing? Releases more raids, of course.
So, to conclude this long (I hope not boring also) post, let’s cheer Anet: For the sake of your 5% players (around 5 000), Anet, " Please continue with making more raids". Ignore the rest – they are whiners / weaklings / not interested in challenge / stubborn – they refuses to take GW as a job and to work HARD – with other words (filthy) casuals.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

You are trying to say that raiders did not pay for the expansion and have less rights than you?
And no. You are not entitled to any of that. All you are entitled to is technical support and access to gw2 servers. Turns out you are the only real entitled elitist in this thread.

There is less raiders than non-raiders, so non-raiders have all rights in the world to complain about endgame content being made only for raids.

I should also have the right to choose who I play with, and a part of that, should not be being forced to deal with egotistical elitist entitled jerks that think they are better then other people.

You do have that right, nobody said you didn’t.

Nobody is forcing you to play with them, why don’t you try find like-minded people and play with them instead, did they release a patch where only “elitist jerks” can search for groups on lfg?

Let’s break some things down shall we?

STIHL.2489:

Complete Access to the game I paid for. In case you missed this, I paid for this game, and the Expansion that went with it. Any Skill, Any Time Investment is nothing, compared to cold cash that keeps their lights on.

You have this – you can access any part of the game – Including raids- right now.
Open up your squad – make a squad – enter raid. See how easy that was? You can access the raid even as one person.

What’s that? You need 9 others to complete? Well there’s a problem.
You paid your cold hard cash to Anet and in turn they have provided you with access to the raid and the raid itself. You need more people though.
Unfortunately the vast majority of players do not work for Anet so the fact that you paid Anet doesn’t mean anything to me or them.
If you want 9 other experienced players pay them the same way you paid for the game to get access to Raids.
There are groups out there that sell raids – go ahead and get yourself a full clear.

STIHL.2489:

If Anet does not want to make content for it’s Paying players like me, or wants to cater some other group, then they can expect me to stop paying into this game, Hope you all pick up the slack.

Go ahead – don’t pay for the game – others will. You’re not the be-all end-all of GW2’s player base.

But, yah, I am entitled to Full Access to the Gear, Content, and Aspects, in a way that I enjoy, and if that means I don’t want to deal with elitist jerks, then so be it.

This part is just made up. You are entitled to the game – you own it – you play it. However you are playing a game with other people that don’t have to move an inch or lift a finger to do anything to improve your playtime.
Remember – you paid Anet your money – not the other players. We’re not your employees.
If you don’t want to deal with elitists – don’t – just find other people out there and do your thing.

STIHL.2489:

if you thought your investment into this game meant anything, you’re wrong, your skill is pointless, your time spent is worthless, the only thing that matters is dead presidents, which is something I had been providing.

Time and skill obviously matter because they gate some of the content in the game(time gated crafts for example or skill-gated raid rewards). If you think they don’t matter that’s your opinion but it’s wrong.
Also – if you want people to care about you or for your enjoyment to matter to them perhaps start providing them with these “dead presidents” and maybe your odds will improve.

If they want me to keep providing, they better start to build stuff that makes me feel like a special kittening snowflake.

Perhaps you alone are not so important to Anet after all. Or perhaps you should learn that not everything revolves around you.

Oh – you paid for GW2 and HoT? So did everybody else – why are you special again?

STIHL.2489:

Because, remember this well, I don’t owe them, or you a kitten thing, I don’t care how much you love raids, if what they make is not making me happy, I am not going to support your game mode with my money. Keep that in mind the next time you’re swiping the credit card, make sure to buy a whole lot more to cover what I’m no longer buying.

Sure -ok – no problem. Do you honestly think you’re single-handedly supporting the game here?

If you’re not happy – move on. The door is always open. If you decide to stay though you might want to realize that nobody is under any obligation to make your feel special and unique and make sure you have fun.
You have paid Anet – for access to the game (which you have) – you have’t paid the other players in the game though.

I do hope they continue with raids at a steady pace.

Most play anything but raids yet some play raids and nothing else.
Does that mean we should completely focus on the preferences of the majority?
Next thing we will ask for is to abandon any new character designs, armors, tools, outfits, etc which are not related to female human models. Isn’t that what the majority plays?

STIHL.2489:

But Let me clue you in, in the last 16 years, the arguments you’re using have not changed, and they are all bull kitten, because you’re trying to tell someone else to have fun on your terms, and it never works like that. Never.

I’m not telling anyone to do anything.
I’m telling this – I want to play with certain people that make the experience fun for me – I don’t care what others do as long as they don’t interfere. I don’t even care if you have fun or not. Or what you do.
I’m not telling anyone how to have fun or on what terms. I’m trying to have fun on MY terms. Is that a problem for you? Don’t play with me. Is it that hard?

There’s no point in telling us your “extended MMO history” – I pretty much assumed it from your posts.
Long-time genre veteran that was once good or “top dog” at the games he played but now has fallen behind in this game because of reasons. And is upset about it – wants to get back into it but people won’t have him because he wasn’t there from the get-go.
I wish I could say I feel for you – but if you truly are as experienced in MMOs as you think you are you should have known that not being there on raids day one would be a bad idea.

Cristalyan.5728:

I read here on the Forum that a 3% of the WoW players do raids. I don’t know the exact number of the WoW accounts, but I suppose 5 millions can be an OK estimation. So, 3% from 5 kk means around 150 k raiders in WoW.
Let’s see an Anet statement (around 2 months ago) – they stated that in a month they had around 3 millions logins from GW2 accounts. That means around 100 000 per day. We can safely suppose that this is the hard core of the player base – the players logging daily into the game.
Again Anet – they stated (2 months ago) that the number of HoT licenses sold up to that date was between 300 – 400 k.
And now:
1. Considering that all the daily logins were from HoT owners, that means Anet lost already around 75% from the HoT buyers. But that 100 k per day does not means only HoT owners – that means HoT owners + F2P + nonHoT payed accounts. That means the HoT owners logging in the game is less than 100k. So Anet lost even more than 75% from the HoT buyers. This is the first conclusion.
2. Anet states that the percentage of raiders in GW2 is better than in other games. Using WoW as a reference (3%) we can say that more than 3% of players raids in GW2. How much more?? Unknown. Let’s suppose 5%. This 5% from 100 k players, translated in numbers, means around 5k raiders. Compare with 150k in WoW.

You are comparing the 3% of the total number of wow active account (5M) vs the 5% of the daily logs of gw2 (100k).

That’s the moist fail attempt to math and deal with statistics of the human history.

Anyway holding your start numbers, even if they’re wrong (wow it’s under 5M account since a lot) we have:

Wow: 3% of 5M —> 150k

Gw2: 5% of gw2 of 400k —> 20k

Now let’s do that 5M/400k = Wow active account are 12.5x more times than gw2 hot buyer.

150k/20k= Wow raider are 7,5x times more than gw2 raiders

So using your numbers, compared to the active population who bought hot or pay a sub in wow, the raider ratio/population in gw2 in 2x better than the raider ration/population in wow

That means 3 things:

1- gw2 raid are a success
2- your assumption gw2 population is casual and don’t want raid is wrong. gw2 population is not as casual as you say, since every 10 hot buyer there are 2x more people interested in raiding compered to every 10 wow subscriver (that is raid based game)
3- you don’t know how to do math.

Sup

aelfwe.4239:

Cristalyan.5728:

I read here on the Forum that a 3% of the WoW players do raids. I don’t know the exact number of the WoW accounts, but I suppose 5 millions can be an OK estimation. So, 3% from 5 kk means around 150 k raiders in WoW.
Let’s see an Anet statement (around 2 months ago) – they stated that in a month they had around 3 millions logins from GW2 accounts. That means around 100 000 per day. We can safely suppose that this is the hard core of the player base – the players logging daily into the game.
Again Anet – they stated (2 months ago) that the number of HoT licenses sold up to that date was between 300 – 400 k.
And now:
1. Considering that all the daily logins were from HoT owners, that means Anet lost already around 75% from the HoT buyers. But that 100 k per day does not means only HoT owners – that means HoT owners + F2P + nonHoT payed accounts. That means the HoT owners logging in the game is less than 100k. So Anet lost even more than 75% from the HoT buyers. This is the first conclusion.
2. Anet states that the percentage of raiders in GW2 is better than in other games. Using WoW as a reference (3%) we can say that more than 3% of players raids in GW2. How much more?? Unknown. Let’s suppose 5%. This 5% from 100 k players, translated in numbers, means around 5k raiders. Compare with 150k in WoW.

You are comparing the 3% of the total number of wow active account (5M) vs the 5% of the daily logs of gw2 (100k)

That’s the moist fail attempt to math and deal with statistics of the human history

He must do his statistics casually.

Honestly raids are the only thing that keep me and a lot of people I play with in the game. Keep pumping out the content Anet!

Reposting from another thread: I get that GW2 is a game with a massive variety in player skill, but people that are asking for more accessible raids are completely missing the point of raids to begin with. Just like fractals used to be (they even made them easier for the more casual player!), raids are aimed at the (more) hardcore portion of players. On that note, GW2 is actually one of the most casual-oriented MMOs I’ve ever played, so I’m really glad that raids provide the perfect platform for those players who strive to excel at playing their class(es).

aelfe.4329:
" You are comparing the 3% of the total number of wow active account (5M) vs the 5% of the daily logs of gw2 (100k)

That’s the moist fail attempt to math and deal with statistics of the human history"

Well, I considered that the accounts logging in are the active accounts. And at 3 millions in 30 days you have an average of 100 k per day. So, it is safe to assume that THIS is the real playerbase (active accounts) in this moment. 100 k.
On the other hand, Anet only spoke about 3% of the WoW active accounts. No other data – so the 5 millions is my estimation and can be questioned. I accept this – it was only my estimation. To have a clear image we need to know how many logins are in a month in WoW. Unfortunately I don’t have these data and Anet keeps silence about it (even if Anet knows very well that number – otherwise the reference to the 3% is not real). But I suppose that telling the real numbers will not put GW2 in a very favorable light.

Still, I compared % of active accounts with % of active accounts.

Cristalyan.5728:

Still, I compared % of active accounts with % of active accounts.

No, you didn’t.
You compared % of active subscription (WoW) with % of logins per day (GW2)

Cristalyan.5728:

Still, I compared % of active accounts with % of active accounts.

No you estimated how many WoW accounts are active. You guessed 5M but what to they do? are there 5M players loggin in daily? I doubt that.

So why are you comparing 5M people who have an active wow acc ( i assume an active WoW account is an account that can be played on and not neccesarely be played on ) to 100k players who do login daily? you made your own mistake in comparing htings. You estimated to much. If you do a guess about a guess frome a guess that has been said somewhere on a forum by someone who just made up that number. How can that be Correct?

Ok i know the numbers i took are probably wrong. But it’s to make a point.

Why is it that somehow a lot of players magically keep ignoring or forgetting about all those clarifications from ANET recently? Raids are not blocking other content development. Fractals are being updated (cliffside), LS3 is being worked on. It’s not like the only ppl working at ANET is the 6man raid team who in the lunch breaks creates all those recent bandit events, bounties and other leyline related content.

The casual player who is not interested in raids is actually being provided with new content as we speak in preparation for a (huge I hope) LS3 update which is about to hit.

I too prefer HoT would have brought more with it, more maps etc, as I’m not even playing those maps anymore. But I got my replay value from them. Sure I’d wish there were at least 4-5 fractals coming soon cause after having run tier 4 fractals a number of times even these seem laughingly easy not given how RNG hates me after HoT I have little reason to do them.

vahleru.7891
" So why are you comparing 5M people who have an active wow acc ( i assume an active WoW account is an account that can be played on and not neccesarely be played on ) to 100k players who do login daily"

An active account on WoW means an account for which the user payed the monthly fee. It is not important if you play or not during that month – you pay a fee. So it is a common sense to think that after paying a monthly fee to play, you will actually play. This was the reason I considered the 5M active accounts as they actually play the game. But, playing or not is not important for WoW – the important thing is the monthly fee. Once you pay it, your account is considered active – and counts :-))
With GW the things are different – you pay once and you play when you want. This is the reason the daily login was the parameter I considered when counting the active accounts.

Cristalyan.5728:

But, playing or not is not important for WoW – the important thing is the monthly fee. Once you pay it, your account is considered active – and counts :-))
With GW the things are different – you pay once and you play when you want. This is the reason the daily login was the parameter I considered when counting the active accounts.

Sorry but these are not comparable statistics.

If I played both WoW and GW2 50% of the week, given your reasoning I would be counted 100% of the time in WoW as an active player whereas for GW2 I would be counted only an average of 50% of the time.

If I had 20 friends, a group of 10 log on and play raids mon-weds, another group of 10 different friends log on and play raids thurs-sun. So only 10 of my friends log on, on a given day.
I know that 100% of my friends raid, but from your reasoning that means only 10 people I know raid, whereas you can see that it’s 20.

Cristalyan.5728:

Still, I compared % of active accounts with % of active accounts.

Not at all.

You compered an estimation of the whole active wow accounts vs an estimation of gw2 hot daily login.

I will make it simple:

Wow —> sub based --> the single active sub last from 1 day to N months.

The less amount of time a wow account is active when you renew the sub is for 30 days, that’s why when blizzard was still giving info about sub they were always refering to a monthly base.

So basically you had the wonderfull idea to compare the (estimated) amount of wow player that raid on an average of 30 days vs the (estimated) amount of gw2 player that raid on a daily base.

As i told the moist weird math on human history.

aelfwe.4239
It seems that this is too hard for you to understand. I will try again (this is not what a real hardcore raider does – to try to teach a newbie):
- The accounts paying the monthly fee in WoW is X (let’s say 5M). Every account can login every day. That means you can have 150 M logins in a month. Why are we considering the players will logging in ? Because they pay for a limited use (in time) of the WoW servers. The paying players choose the period for the fee – according to the schedule and their availability to play. So, I repeat, it is common sense to consider they will play as much as they can for that fee.
- The GW: The number of logins in a month was 3 M. That means an average of 100 k per day. The players logging daily are the active players. This is the reason I compared 5M with 100k

Now, it is (again) common sense that when you disagree with something (that means that “something” is false) you know another variant – (the true one).
After disagreeing with my point of view, may I ask you to share with us your point of view, please?

But this post is not about the number of active WoW players. It is about GW2 raids.

At 5% raiders that means about 5k players raiding in GW2. I will reiterate here my words for Anet: Anet, " Please continue with making more raids". Ignore the rest – they are whiners / weaklings / not interested in challenge / stubborn – they refuses to take GW as a job and to work HARD – with other words (filthy) casuals. By doing so, only we, the raiders will continue to play this game and you (Anet) will be the first gaming company in the world having 100% of the playerbase raiding. Keep doing the good job of getting rid of the casuals! Is not important we are only 5 000. Sparta entered in the history with only 300 warriors. And I can swear that in the 5 000 GW2 raiders we can find 300 warriors at any time :-))

I seriously don’t care about open world content…
I’m not interested in being a casual…
I’m a raider and I want more raids. I want harder mechanics and longer boss fights.

Open world content requires a mindless zerg. I don’t want to spend my time running in a circle auto attacking, I want a challenge. If I wanted a casual game, I would be playing farmville.

All I want is:
Harder boss fights
Harder mechanics
More exclusivity
More raid gated equipment
More tears

Give me more of that….

" I seriously don’t care about open world content…"
Well, the open world content represents about 95% of GW2. At least this was the argument the raiders used when the casuals complained about raids.
And you just stated that you are not interested in the 95% of the GW2. But you have the guts to demand a lot of things :-))
How much is WoW paying you to poison the GW forums?
Keep a low profile, you saboteur.

Ok casuals, please collect your salt at the entrance of the wing 3 stronghold of the faithful. We have a stack for everyone.

Cristalyan.5728:

" I seriously don’t care about open world content…"
Well, the open world content represents about 95% of GW2. At least this was the argument the raiders used when the casuals complained about raids.
And you just stated that you are not interested in the 95% of the GW2. But you have the guts to demand a lot of things :-))
How much is WoW paying you to poison the GW forums?
Keep a low profile, you saboteur.

I stop saboteurs a lot, I can’t let them destroy the cage.

Cristalyan.5728:

1) It seems that this is too hard for you to understand. I will try again (this is not what a real hardcore raider does – to try to teach a newbie):

2) The accounts paying the monthly fee in WoW is X (let’s say 5M). Every account can login every day. That means you can have 150 M logins in a month. Why are we considering the players will logging in ? Because they pay for a limited use (in time) of the WoW servers. The paying players choose the period for the fee – according to the schedule and their availability to play. So, I repeat, it is common sense to consider they will play as much as they can for that fee.

- The GW: The number of logins in a month was 3 M. That means an average of 100 k per day. The players logging daily are the active players. This is the reason I compared 5M with 100k

3) Now, it is (again) common sense that when you disagree with something (that means that “something” is false) you know another variant – (the true one).
After disagreeing with my point of view, may I ask you to share with us your point of view, please?

on 1) If you havent noticed yet, YOU are the one who uses wrong math in the first place. I advise you to go back to school or take some classes somewhere.

on 2) the accounts playing x = 5M is right until there (approx, its prolly lower)
Then you make the very horrible mistake in believing every single account will login every single day. Which is absolutely wrong. You have a point in saying that players who play a MMO with a subscription based model will try to login more frequently than a f2p or b2p MMO, but to take all the 5M and is stupid.
You need data from Blizzard to know how many players login to WoW every given day, not just take all the 5M (<—- WTF how did you even think about doing this.)

Next big mistake you did was take the 3M (which is not the amount of players login in each month, but that was the number of copies sold i believe). then you divided this until you had the logins per day (which is wrong) = 100k.
You then had the atrocious idea to compare the wrong value of logins per day of GW2 to the entire guessed playerbase of WoW.
On top of that you then only took 5% of the again wrong number of players logging in per day as raiders and again compared it to 5% of the entire guessed playerbase of WoW???

Umh wat? pls teach me in what world this is a correct calculation.
Pls go learn how to evaluate the data given to you (or the data you entirely guesses) and take some math classes (no offense but this was just plain wrong and on the level of a 5th grader)

David.4821:

Cristalyan.5728:

" I seriously don’t care about open world content…"
Well, the open world content represents about 95% of GW2. At least this was the argument the raiders used when the casuals complained about raids.
And you just stated that you are not interested in the 95% of the GW2. But you have the guts to demand a lot of things :-))
How much is WoW paying you to poison the GW forums?
Keep a low profile, you saboteur.

I stop saboteurs a lot, I can’t let them destroy the cage.

pshh non-raiders wouldn’t know :P

GW2 is WoW clone now
All raiders are toxic
And loot > challange
:P

Raids have been such a healthy addition to this game …

How are raiders toxic by wanting a challenge? This game was created for casual players, ANet released content that’s “hardcore” and all these casual players are all up in arms over raids being inaccessible.

Most toxicity come from Non Raiders, look at all topics in forums that bash raiders, they far outweigh the amount of Raiders bashing Non raiders. most complaints are about Non Raiders complaining about pugs, Pugs don’t represent the majority of raiding community.

@Cristalyan
Also where is your statistic about the divide between Gw2 population, I think you are arbitrarily throwing out 95% open world Pvers with no proof of that percentage….

STIHL.2489:

But, yah, I am entitled to Full Access to the Gear, Content, and Aspects, in a way that I enjoy, and if that means I don’t want to deal with elitist jerks, then so be it.

This is pretty impressively myopic. ANet is not in any way, shape, or form obliged to create the game that you enjoy. You bought it fully understanding how it was, or how it was going to be, and if that isn’t good enough for you then you can ask for a refund. If you don’t want to buy future expansions for the sole reason that some of the content in those expansions is beyond your skill level, then so be it. If dealing with other humans (who will be cruel no matter how easy the content is) is too much for you as well, then I’d recommend playing single player games instead (or focusing on the content areas where you don’t need other people).

Harper.4173:

STIHL.2489:

But Let me clue you in, in the last 16 years, the arguments you’re using have not changed, and they are all bull kitten, because you’re trying to tell someone else to have fun on your terms, and it never works like that. Never.

I’m not telling anyone to do anything.
I’m telling this – I want to play with certain people that make the experience fun for me – I don’t care what others do as long as they don’t interfere. I don’t even care if you have fun or not. Or what you do.
I’m not telling anyone how to have fun or on what terms. I’m trying to have fun on MY terms. Is that a problem for you? Don’t play with me. Is it that hard?

There’s no point in telling us your “extended MMO history” – I pretty much assumed it from your posts.
Long-time genre veteran that was once good or “top dog” at the games he played but now has fallen behind in this game because of reasons. And is upset about it – wants to get back into it but people won’t have him because he wasn’t there from the get-go.
I wish I could say I feel for you – but if you truly are as experienced in MMOs as you think you are you should have known that not being there on raids day one would be a bad idea.

Actually, you could not be further from the truth if you tried, I’m older now, and I have the starting stages of arthritis (as well as other problems) with my hands, which means it hurts to try and play twitch based games, I can still pull off that epic encounter once in a while, but it causes me physical pain to do so and I need to rest my hands after and often can’t really play for a few days after the fact.

That is why I realize how stupid I was to say what you’re saying, all those years ago, I never took the time to realize that there were other players out there, people with hurdles that I had no idea what they are were dealing with. Some people for love of the game, suffer pain, they deal with disabilities, they struggle against their own bodies just to try and have some fun, playing an MMO. What a total scum bag I was to tell them to learn to play, and laugh when they felt that they should be allowed to enjoy the game equally to me, I put in the time and effort to be good, how dare they. Only took me 12 years to develop some minor physical problems to get that wake up call, and realize how foolish and greedy I had been over something so worthlessly insignificant.

I suppose I should have known better, I was you at one time, and I think back now over the years, of what others said to me, as I now say to you, and the cycle will be, what it will be.

You lose nothing if the game is made to be inclusive, yet others loose so much if the game is built to be exclusive, but some of us, in our childish desire to placate out our own greed and vanity, in of all things, a game, just can’t see that any game is a better game, when people feel included.

Go enjoy your raid.

yay more raid…. that i never will play……. i can’t lose 6 hour on a boss. you know…… real life

Acnologia.6934:

yay more raid…. that i never will play……. i can’t lose 6 hour on a boss. you know…… real life

Your own choices on how to spend your time are not the responsibility of the developers or any of the players.
Plenty of people can combine their work, social life and the raids without to much problems or sacrifices.

If your priorities leave you without the time to partake in difficult group content it’s not anyone else their problem.

munki.6402:

Razor.9872:

munki.6402:

Harper.4173:

The Zealous Templar.3861:

Thank you for clearly showing the problem here, see, anyone that wants to raid, has to deal with 9 other entitled jerks to do the content. See the problem now?

Or they could find like-minded people of which there seem to be plenty of on these forums and play with them instead? (Pretty obvious why they don’t want to do that but that’s a different matter).

If your “problem” is group content then MMO’s aren’t the genre for you, there are plenty of single player games where you don’t have to interact with anyone. Expecting an MMO to relinquish its group content is amongst the dumbest things you’ve said.

No – they can’t. Do you know why? Because somehow in the way he sees it if an inexperienced or new player wants to do the content I’m doing I’m somehow obligated to take him along and help and teach him.

In his confusion he’s mistaken me for a tutorial system that Anet never made. Because my playtime, satisfaction or enjoyment of the game don’t matter – what matters is that “new players get into raids lel”.

The raids are there – you can open them anytime.
The LFG tool is there – you’re free to use it.
The forums are here – you can look for a guild ( or use reddit, or google).

You have the tools to fix your problem – but do it yourself – don’t expect others to.

Wow … message received. I will continue to stay away from raids.

You don’t have to stay away from raids out-right. Just be sure to not join groups that are grouping for an experienced-only kill — unless you reach a point you are experienced yourself. You can do this by forming your own practice/teaching/learning runs, or joining a guild that is specialized towards such things.

Just try to think in their shoes; imagine that you are only really rewarded for beating something challenging, and need 9 other people to help you do it. You only have a couple hours to get it done, and success depends entirely on the competency of your group. So you post in lfg for people who can be on “your level” and beat the boss in 1-6ish tries. However, despite posting for those experienced, people join you who may not even know all the mechanics. You really don’t have the time to explain how everything works — you advertised for a group that could hit the ground running. So you kick that person or whatnot, and are called out for being “an elitist jerk.”

That is not to say there are not elitist jerks out there, but the problem is a two-way street.

I appreciate your response and I do not join such groups. But I simply don’t have time for this kind of vitriol, so I will opt to stay away.

But it doesn’t have to be toxic. Just knowing where/who to group with makes the whole experience amazing. It’s sad to see you give up on such great content

STIHL.2489:

Harper.4173:

STIHL.2489:

But Let me clue you in, in the last 16 years, the arguments you’re using have not changed, and they are all bull kitten, because you’re trying to tell someone else to have fun on your terms, and it never works like that. Never.

I’m not telling anyone to do anything.
I’m telling this – I want to play with certain people that make the experience fun for me – I don’t care what others do as long as they don’t interfere. I don’t even care if you have fun or not. Or what you do.
I’m not telling anyone how to have fun or on what terms. I’m trying to have fun on MY terms. Is that a problem for you? Don’t play with me. Is it that hard?

There’s no point in telling us your “extended MMO history” – I pretty much assumed it from your posts.
Long-time genre veteran that was once good or “top dog” at the games he played but now has fallen behind in this game because of reasons. And is upset about it – wants to get back into it but people won’t have him because he wasn’t there from the get-go.
I wish I could say I feel for you – but if you truly are as experienced in MMOs as you think you are you should have known that not being there on raids day one would be a bad idea.

Actually, you could not be further from the truth if you tried, I’m older now, and I have the starting stages of arthritis (as well as other problems) with my hands, which means it hurts to try and play twitch based games, I can still pull off that epic encounter once in a while, but it causes me physical pain to do so and I need to rest my hands after and often can’t really play for a few days after the fact.

That is why I realize how stupid I was to say what you’re saying, all those years ago, I never took the time to realize that there were other players out there, people with hurdles that I had no idea what they are were dealing with. Some people for love of the game, suffer pain, they deal with disabilities, they struggle against their own bodies just to try and have some fun, playing an MMO. What a total scum bag I was to tell them to learn to play, and laugh when they felt that they should be allowed to enjoy the game equally to me, I put in the time and effort to be good, how dare they. Only took me 12 years to develop some minor physical problems to get that wake up call, and realize how foolish and greedy I had been over something so worthlessly insignificant.

I suppose I should have known better, I was you at one time, and I think back now over the years, of what others said to me, as I now say to you, and the cycle will be, what it will be.

You lose nothing if the game is made to be inclusive, yet others loose so much if the game is built to be exclusive, but some of us, in our childish desire to placate out our own greed and vanity, in of all things, a game, just can’t see that any game is a better game, when people feel included.

Go enjoy your raid.

Yeah. I found your problem.
You have a physical problem that is preventing you from being able to play Guild Wars 2 at the optimal level required for raids. There it is.
It’s not your fault – nor does fault matter. What matters is that people will want you to perform up to par regardless of your real life issues.

I’ve had my share of physical issues – that’s really no big deal or an excuse. It’s prevented me from doing demanding sports like soccer and such when I was younger. And I didn’t blame others for not wanting to play with me because I knew I was a very poor player and a detriment to any team.
You know what I did? I accepted the situation – made peace with it and quit playing soccer.

What I didn’t do is call people “elitist entitled jerks” simply because they wanted to play without a team-wide handicap.

What I’m saying is not stupid. It’s the cold hard truth. Sometimes no matter what you want or how you feel you just can’t make the cut – sometimes it’s because of how you’re born – other times it’s a random act of chance that prevents you. This is called tough luck – we all face it one way or another.

Some people have arthritis and can’t raid. That doesn’t mean they’re entitled to have others carry them or accept them if they can’t perform.

Just because life deals you a bad hand doesn’t mean everyone else has to bend over backwards to make your time in a game ( or any other passtime) more enjoyable.
If you can – do it – if you can’t – find something else.

This is what I did – and I did it because being a bother to others is not what I want to do.

So don’t lecture me about physical issues and what difficulties arise from them – I am too well aware. It is not an excuse to feel entitled to other player’s time and effort.

I suppose I should have known better, I was you at one time, and I think back now over the years, of what others said to me, as I now say to you, and the cycle will be, what it will be.

You weren’t me. And you aren’t me now.
You and I think very differently. The cycle has already been for me – I know the other side of it too. It’s still not an excuse.

Harper.4173:

STIHL.2489:

Harper.4173:

STIHL.2489:

But Let me clue you in, in the last 16 years, the arguments you’re using have not changed, and they are all bull kitten, because you’re trying to tell someone else to have fun on your terms, and it never works like that. Never.

I’m not telling anyone to do anything.
I’m telling this – I want to play with certain people that make the experience fun for me – I don’t care what others do as long as they don’t interfere. I don’t even care if you have fun or not. Or what you do.
I’m not telling anyone how to have fun or on what terms. I’m trying to have fun on MY terms. Is that a problem for you? Don’t play with me. Is it that hard?

There’s no point in telling us your “extended MMO history” – I pretty much assumed it from your posts.
Long-time genre veteran that was once good or “top dog” at the games he played but now has fallen behind in this game because of reasons. And is upset about it – wants to get back into it but people won’t have him because he wasn’t there from the get-go.
I wish I could say I feel for you – but if you truly are as experienced in MMOs as you think you are you should have known that not being there on raids day one would be a bad idea.

Actually, you could not be further from the truth if you tried, I’m older now, and I have the starting stages of arthritis (as well as other problems) with my hands, which means it hurts to try and play twitch based games, I can still pull off that epic encounter once in a while, but it causes me physical pain to do so and I need to rest my hands after and often can’t really play for a few days after the fact.

That is why I realize how stupid I was to say what you’re saying, all those years ago, I never took the time to realize that there were other players out there, people with hurdles that I had no idea what they are were dealing with. Some people for love of the game, suffer pain, they deal with disabilities, they struggle against their own bodies just to try and have some fun, playing an MMO. What a total scum bag I was to tell them to learn to play, and laugh when they felt that they should be allowed to enjoy the game equally to me, I put in the time and effort to be good, how dare they. Only took me 12 years to develop some minor physical problems to get that wake up call, and realize how foolish and greedy I had been over something so worthlessly insignificant.

I suppose I should have known better, I was you at one time, and I think back now over the years, of what others said to me, as I now say to you, and the cycle will be, what it will be.

You lose nothing if the game is made to be inclusive, yet others loose so much if the game is built to be exclusive, but some of us, in our childish desire to placate out our own greed and vanity, in of all things, a game, just can’t see that any game is a better game, when people feel included.

Go enjoy your raid.

Yeah. I found your problem.
You have a physical problem that is preventing you from being able to play Guild Wars 2 at the optimal level required for raids. There it is.
It’s not your fault – nor does fault matter. What matters is that people will want you to perform up to par regardless of your real life issues.

I’ve had my share of physical issues – that’s really no big deal or an excuse. It’s prevented me from doing demanding sports like soccer and such when I was younger. And I didn’t blame others for not wanting to play with me because I knew I was a very poor player and a detriment to any team.
You know what I did? I accepted the situation – made peace with it and quit playing soccer.

What I didn’t do is call people “elitist entitled jerks” simply because they wanted to play without a team-wide handicap.

What I’m saying is not stupid. It’s the cold hard truth. Sometimes no matter what you want or how you feel you just can’t make the cut – sometimes it’s because of how you’re born – other times it’s a random act of chance that prevents you. This is called tough luck – we all face it one way or another.

Some people have arthritis and can’t raid. That doesn’t mean they’re entitled to have others carry them or accept them if they can’t perform.

Just because life deals you a bad hand doesn’t mean everyone else has to bend over backwards to make your time in a game ( or any other passtime) more enjoyable.
If you can – do it – if you can’t – find something else.

This is what I did – and I did it because being a bother to others is not what I want to do.

So don’t lecture me about physical issues and what difficulties arise from them – I am too well aware. It is not an excuse to feel entitled to other player’s time and effort.

I suppose I should have known better, I was you at one time, and I think back now over the years, of what others said to me, as I now say to you, and the cycle will be, what it will be.

You weren’t me. And you aren’t me now.
You and I think very differently. The cycle has already been for me – I know the other side of it too. It’s still not an excuse.

LOL Said the same things myself, even used the sports analogy, god those are so overdone. Hilarious.

I’m not asking you to carry me, in fact I don’t even want to play with you at all. You’re not the kind of person I would want to even share a game with anymore, much less an encounter where I have to deal with you directly.

But I see I have wanted my time, but none the less, I’ve already followed your advice and started to look for new ‘sport’ to play.

But see this is not a sport, it’s a product that needs paying clients to survive, hope you pick up the slack.

Just so we’re clear – it wasn’t an analogy – it might be overdone but in my case it was exactly how my life went. Sure – it makes for a good analogy – it also happens to be how it is for me.

This is not a sport – you’re right – but there are plenty of playing customers right now.
People leave – it’s inevitable.
Also I have no idea how much you spent on the game but I’m pretty sure you’re not that big of a part of Anet’s income.

Good luck in you future ventures. Remember – it’s nobody’s fault things are the way they are.
Nobody is “toxic” or “entitled” just because they prefer having a better teammate.
Nobody owes you anything – nobody is supposed to help you along – you help yourself.

If you can’t raid – don’t raid. Do other content – earn money – buy your runs – lots of people do. You can play the TP in this game with barely any effort mechanics-wise.
You’re only gated by your own choices.

Harper.4173:

This is not a sport – you’re right – but there are plenty of playing customers right now.
People leave – it’s inevitable.
Also I have no idea how much you spent on the game but I’m pretty sure you’re not that big of a part of Anet’s income.

I’m just going to talk about this for a small moment.

For the record, I used to spend around 40 a month, 10 a week. Just a small budget of money spent on a game, Nothing much really.

And I have to agree, One person is a drop in the bucket, but it’s never 1 person, it’s all about demographics.

So, just to play for a moment.

Taking a demographic that is hinged on two points, Spending around 40 a month, and Leaving due to the whole Hardcore/Elitism direction Anet is taking with Raids and HoT Content, and opted to follow your advice and Move On

Lets say that demographic of Players made up 1% of the players. A very small group of people no doubt. Well, I believe it was mentioned that GW2 has around 100K unique daily log ins, so 1% of that would be $520K loss a year, or put another way, That means the entire Raid Team’s annual salary, just walked out the door.

I don’t even want to think of how much they just lost if that demographic represents something like 10% of the Paying Clients.

But remember, you do play a role if the game does start to die, because you were the one that wanted to exclude people, and told them to get out if they didn’t like it.