Guild Wars 2

In that case ele’s must be #1 because they can melt heavy golems in less than a second, even with cleric amulet and 0/0/10/30/30.

colesy.8490:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

This is a really stupid thread.

1) Ranger sword is one of the fastest attacks in the game. It hits a full chain approximately every 1.8 seconds, which means it hits at the same speed as the warrior’s axe chain. By comparison, a warrior’s greatsword chain takes 2.5s, which means the ranger attacks almost as fast as a greatsword warrior does with quickness on.

2) Rangers have immensely high crit rate by default. Spotter is now +150 precision to the entire party, which is worth 7% crit chance, and they maintain fury more easily than any other class. A ranger with Spotter, 30 in Skirmishing, and full zerker armor with Ruby Orbs will have a crit chance of 84.7%. Add in the Warrior’s Banner of Discipline and a consumable that gives +100 precision, and Sigil of Accuracy, and you have a crit chance over 100%. The guardian is the only other class that can achieve those numbers.

3) Rangers have a pet, which also contributes DPS. I see no indication of pet damage measurements in this post, but a pet typically contributes between 1-2k DPS. In terms of total damage, a totally decked out ranger (might, fury, vulnerability, banners, consumable, Spotter, Empower Allies) hits for over 10k DPS once you include the pet’s damage. That is almost identical to the guardian’s DPS and higher than the warrior’s DPS, which is about 9.6k.

tl;dr rangers are actually one of the strongest classes in the game. If there is a significant weakness on their part, it is the awkward movement on the sword chain. Then again, without that rooting effect, the ranger would insanely overpowered. That’s not hyperbole. The ranger does obscene amounts of damage and provide extremely strong group buffs that stack with the ones the warrior provides. Couple that with a guardian providing defensive buffs and an engineer stacking conditions and you have a pretty strong holy quadrinity.

On the basis of group buffs, DPS potential, and overall usefulness, at least in PvE, from best to worst:

Engineer
Guardian
Ranger
Warrior
Mesmer
Elementalist
Thief
Necromancer

Note how high ranger is on that list.

Are you insane?

And where did you pull those dps numbers, your backside?

Numbers from math, testing, and actually, you know, playing the game and using good builds, instead of spending all my time seeing how big a number I can make with HB.

If you’re still at the stage where a single big number is enough to impress you to this extent, you’re probably not ready to talk about game balance, anyway.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

3) Rangers have a pet, which also contributes DPS. I see no indication of pet damage measurements in this post, but a pet typically contributes between 1-2k DPS. In terms of total damage, a totally decked out ranger (might, fury, vulnerability, banners, consumable, Spotter, Empower Allies) hits for over 10k DPS once you include the pet’s damage. That is almost identical to the guardian’s DPS and higher than the warrior’s DPS, which is about 9.6k.

It’s in the second picture. Here is an unofficial test though for you. Snowballs must be OP.

I might repeat myself but you list is bullkitten. If you were honest or knew something about the game that list wouldn’t be so random.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

colesy.8490:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

This is a really stupid thread.

1) Ranger sword is one of the fastest attacks in the game. It hits a full chain approximately every 1.8 seconds, which means it hits at the same speed as the warrior’s axe chain. By comparison, a warrior’s greatsword chain takes 2.5s, which means the ranger attacks almost as fast as a greatsword warrior does with quickness on.

2) Rangers have immensely high crit rate by default. Spotter is now +150 precision to the entire party, which is worth 7% crit chance, and they maintain fury more easily than any other class. A ranger with Spotter, 30 in Skirmishing, and full zerker armor with Ruby Orbs will have a crit chance of 84.7%. Add in the Warrior’s Banner of Discipline and a consumable that gives +100 precision, and Sigil of Accuracy, and you have a crit chance over 100%. The guardian is the only other class that can achieve those numbers.

3) Rangers have a pet, which also contributes DPS. I see no indication of pet damage measurements in this post, but a pet typically contributes between 1-2k DPS. In terms of total damage, a totally decked out ranger (might, fury, vulnerability, banners, consumable, Spotter, Empower Allies) hits for over 10k DPS once you include the pet’s damage. That is almost identical to the guardian’s DPS and higher than the warrior’s DPS, which is about 9.6k.

tl;dr rangers are actually one of the strongest classes in the game. If there is a significant weakness on their part, it is the awkward movement on the sword chain. Then again, without that rooting effect, the ranger would insanely overpowered. That’s not hyperbole. The ranger does obscene amounts of damage and provide extremely strong group buffs that stack with the ones the warrior provides. Couple that with a guardian providing defensive buffs and an engineer stacking conditions and you have a pretty strong holy quadrinity.

On the basis of group buffs, DPS potential, and overall usefulness, at least in PvE, from best to worst:

Engineer
Guardian
Ranger
Warrior
Mesmer
Elementalist
Thief
Necromancer

Note how high ranger is on that list.

Are you insane?

And where did you pull those dps numbers, your backside?

Numbers from math, testing, and actually, you know, playing the game and using good builds, instead of spending all my time seeing how big a number I can make with HB.

If you’re still at the stage where a single big number is enough to impress you to this extent, you’re probably not ready to talk about game balance, anyway.

Please post faster clear times than anything Strife, Obal, or myself have posted. Show us that you are correct and we will believe you.

Ele is #1 PvP golem slayer

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

1) Ranger sword is one of the fastest attacks in the game. It hits a full chain approximately every 1.8 seconds, which means it hits at the same speed as the warrior’s axe chain. By comparison, a warrior’s greatsword chain takes 2.5s, which means the ranger attacks almost as fast as a greatsword warrior does with quickness on.

no one (war) autoatks with greatsword save for the momentary 1st GS#1 swing.

according to wiki the assumed times for ranger 1h totals 1.9s (.6 +.6 +.7) so pretty close to what you claimed

axe auto attack is 3.6 seconds for the whole sequence (again according to wiki) but the damage modifiers of ranger 1hsword is FAR from the damage modifier of warrior axe.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

2) Rangers have immensely high crit rate by default. Spotter is now +150 precision to the entire party, which is worth 7% crit chance, and they maintain fury more easily than any other class. A ranger with Spotter, 30 in Skirmishing, and full zerker armor with Ruby Orbs will have a crit chance of 84.7%. Add in the Warrior’s Banner of Discipline and a consumable that gives +100 precision, and Sigil of Accuracy, and you have a crit chance over 100%. The guardian is the only other class that can achieve those numbers.

Fury uptime shouldn’t be a problem to any party carrying a few warriors

spotter is nice.

food consumption for speed farm runs is usually omnom bars + 10% [enemy type] Potion.

Usually in dungeons sigils are 10% [enemy type] + 10% [sigil of night] OR 5% force maybe sigil of accuracy? (given you already have your bloodlust stacks)

I think sigil of accuracy is a waste if your crit rate is already high enough (have not personally tested dps differences). With high enough crit chance i would prioritize power because of crit dmg multiplier

conclusion

The only edge u claim would be from crit chance (spotter), but it is not as important as power when everyone’s crit chance is high enough. Not to mention the loss of dps when replacing 1 ranger for 1 war.

With tests i think that your claim would come out false, but ofcourse i haven’t tested myself.

tl;dr: you claim ranger to be better warrior than dps, but just a quick look at the numbers it doesn’t seem to be true.

Are rangers seriously able to hit for 24 damage in level 17 areas? My warrior usually onehits enemies with 1.5k damage in those areas.

Guang is one of those people that loves playing Excel Wars 2 but never actually offers any empirical data to back up claims. Engineer being top of the list for group effectiveness? Please.

Also, 10K DPS from a Ranger? Are you kittening kidding me?

http://youtu.be/ae5tkfiOT0U

This is before the June patch, so this is with the 20-25 build. Can a “10K DPS” Ranger do better?

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

On the basis of group buffs, DPS potential, and overall usefulness, at least in PvE, from best to worst:

Engineer
Guardian
Ranger
Warrior
Mesmer
Elementalist
Thief
Necromancer

Note how high ranger is on that list.

Engi OP, please nerf

I’ll just hold my breath over here waiting for those Engineer/Guardian/Ranger 30 minute Arah p4 runs. Or any path of any dungeon run as fast as a real speedclear group comp.

I love Guang actually. His conclusions are wacky but he is good at math and excel and I love a good pot-stirrer.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

I love Guang actually. His conclusions are wacky but he is good at math and excel and I love a good pot-stirrer.

He’s the hero Guild Wars 2 doesn’t need, but the one we have to put up with for now.

But I agree. He’s crazy (maybe), but he always contributes to a discussion and seems like a nice enough guy. I don’t think I’ll ever agree with him about class DPS, but I respect the effort he puts in to his calculations. Hopefully other people will look at him the same and won’t just point and say “TROLL!”

Well that’s what I don’t get, I mean they obviously understand things about the PvE meta, and will talk about gearing a team towards higher DPS output, but then they come up with ridiculous kitten like Engineer>Guardian>Ranger….

Spreadsheets are fun and all and useful in discussions but when your final conclusion is something so ridiculous as that it’s clear you’re either just joking, trolling, or stupid.

Broadicea.8294:

Well that’s what I don’t get, I mean they obviously understand things about the PvE meta, and will talk about gearing a team towards higher DPS output, but then they come up with ridiculous kitten like Engineer>Guardian>Ranger….

Spreadsheets are fun and all and useful in discussions but when your final conclusion is something so ridiculous as that it’s clear you’re either just joking, trolling, or stupid.

I think troll is the kindest conclusion we can come to for him.

Broadicea.8294:

Guang is one of those people that loves playing Excel Wars 2 but never actually offers any empirical data to back up claims. Engineer being top of the list for group effectiveness? Please.

Also, 10K DPS from a Ranger? Are you kittening kidding me?

http://youtu.be/ae5tkfiOT0U

This is before the June patch, so this is with the 20-25 build. Can a “10K DPS” Ranger do better?

“Let’s use all my elites and burst skills and see how big a number I make!”

There is something to be said how for stubbornly people want to believe warriors are good, but seriously, use a bit of a common sense.

In the meantime, name me one class that can:

1) Deal as much DPS as an engineer does
2) At 1500 range
3) While maintaining 25 vulnerability and as much as 15 might.

Just two of the three, even, for starters.

Can’t do it? That’s because engineers are downright broken in their current state. I don’t really see how this is even up for dispute. Warriors are nice for support (banners are really really good) but none of that support stacks (except Empower Allies) so stacking multiple warriors is like buying 20 cans of wax to buff up your beat-up old minivan; you can polish it all you want but you’re not going to get any better results after the first can and the guy with the brand new sports car will still look better.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Broadicea.8294:

Guang is one of those people that loves playing Excel Wars 2 but never actually offers any empirical data to back up claims. Engineer being top of the list for group effectiveness? Please.

Also, 10K DPS from a Ranger? Are you kittening kidding me?

http://youtu.be/ae5tkfiOT0U

This is before the June patch, so this is with the 20-25 build. Can a “10K DPS” Ranger do better?

“Let’s use all my elites and burst skills and see how big a number I make!”

There is something to be said how for stubbornly people want to believe warriors are good, but seriously, use a bit of a common sense.

lol ok, go do that on a ranger and get those numbers.

“Let’s use all my elites and burst skills and see how big a number I make!”
Burst skills used in this video: Frenzy. The end. Everything else has 10 seconds or less cd or a high uptime (banner/SoR)

1) Deal as much DPS as an engineer does
Show me how an engeneers grenade hits for 3k. A single grenade, btw

2) At 1500 range
Who wants to use range anyway?

3) While maintaining 25 vulnerability and as much as 15 might.
This is a team game. Its enough if your entire team together maintains 25 might/vuln.

… why again shouldn’t I call this guy a troll?

Mmmm. I’m guessing from the comments I should expect a ‘No’. But, Guang, are you willing to share some advice in the Ranger forum for how you achieve the numbers you’re talking about?

I’ve really yet to find a good power build I’m happy with, it’s always too situational. I think the closest I can really get is a Longbow build; but it’s pretty Fury dependent, completely gets derailed if a Cat dies, and the range ends up super duper awkward with Hunter’s Tactics and Spotter.

Tell me how an engineer provides 15 stacks aoe might while doing good damage.

And while you are on about it, duo arah path 2 with two engineers in less than 9 minutes.

Ohkitten, won’t happen, engineer damage sucks

Vox Hollow.2736:

Mmmm. I’m guessing from the comments I should expect a ‘No’. But, Guang, are you willing to share some advice in the Ranger forum for how you achieve the numbers you’re talking about?

I’ve really yet to find a good power build I’m happy with, it’s always too situational. I think the closest I can really get is a Longbow build; but it’s pretty Fury dependent, completely gets derailed if a Cat dies, and the range ends up super duper awkward with Hunter’s Tactics and Spotter.

I run 20/30/5/15/0 atm. Bird pet if you can keep it alive, otherwise Drake Pet is probably still best even with the nerf. I haven’t rerun the numbers based on the damage nerfs yet.

Dub.1273:

Tell me how an engineer provides 15 stacks aoe might while doing good damage.

And while you are on about it, duo arah path 2 with two engineers in less than 9 minutes.

Ohkitten, won’t happen, engineer damage sucks

Bomb Kit + Elixir Gun + Shield + Heal Turret, while throwing grenades the rest of the time.

I’m also interested in seeing this alleged 9 minute Arah duo speedrun video.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

“Let’s use all my elites and burst skills and see how big a number I make!”

Actually the point of that video is a rather small number- 10. Seconds, that is. And I’m not even that good, I’m sure others could do better. But not on a ranger.

If you don’t understand, then again it’s: joking, trolling, or stupid.

I just don’t want to feel bad for bringing my ranger into a dungeon. And the balance team doesn’t seem to want to help with that.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Bomb Kit + Elixir Gun + Shield + Heal Turret, while throwing grenades the rest of the time.

I’m also interested in seeing this alleged 9 minute Arah duo speedrun video.

I don’t really see the fire field here. If someone else gives you a combo field fire you could also take LH eles, who additionally grant fury and maintain much higher dps.
You might check gwscr.com if you are interested in screens or videos of records im talking about.

Anyway, are you EU servers? If so we can just duo some arah paths and we will all see how much better your ranger/engineer is than my warrior because i’ll fraps and upload it.

Dub.1273:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Bomb Kit + Elixir Gun + Shield + Heal Turret, while throwing grenades the rest of the time.

I’m also interested in seeing this alleged 9 minute Arah duo speedrun video.

I don’t really see the fire field here. If someone else gives you a combo field fire you could also take LH eles, who additionally grant fury and maintain much higher dps.
You might check gwscr.com if you are interested in screens or videos of records im talking about.

Anyway, are you EU servers? If so we can just duo some arah paths and we will all see how much better your ranger/engineer is than my warrior because i’ll fraps and upload it.

Fire Bomb is a fire field. Could you at least make an effort to wiki this stuff beforehand?

And no, I am US server. I don’t know what the current exploit is for skipping Lupicus anyway, if there even still is one.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Ele is #1 PvP golem slayer

Forget the golems, ele is the only class I’ve seen solo groups of the LA equivalent.

Back on topic, engis would be nice to have 1 of in a party except the rest of the party is already capping vuln stacks and if the CC an engi can provide wasn’t utterly pointless in PvE. Also turret revamp.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

10k DPS
…
Engineer
Ranger
Warrior
…
Note how high ranger is on that list.

0_0…

I’m definitely noting how high something is here….

Dub.1273:

I don’t really see the fire field here. If someone else gives you a combo field fire you could also take LH eles, who additionally grant fury and maintain much higher dps.

First listed skill has fire field.

Isn’t fire bomb like… a 3 second field?…

Ahh. You’re into might stacking. I would be interested to see how that fares post patch, I also just haven’t had the time to sit down and see if it makes up and exceeds the difference of the nerf. Thank you for sharing, Guang.

Staff Guard /w 2h weapon recharge discount if you wanna Might Stack.
12 stacks > 3 stacks

Stormphrax.5798:

CoF path 1 with Rangers in 7:45
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=In5w5wfVxLQ

Not sure if you know brazil or serious post…

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Warriors are nice for support (banners are really really good) but none of that support stacks (except Empower Allies) so stacking multiple warriors is like buying 20 cans of wax to buff up your beat-up old minivan; you can polish it all you want but you’re not going to get any better results after the first can and the guy with the brand new sports car will still look better.

only 1 warrior needs to bring empower allies and it doesn’t stack

Warrior utilities ive seen on speedruns
Banner of Disc
Banner of Str
Frenzy
FGJ (stacks)
On My Mark (10 vuln each) stacks till 25

I don’t see where warrior utilities overlap

Molch had a point in saying why does 1 single character need to maintain 25 vuln and 15 might for the whole team by himself? there are 5 people in the team so whenever other people overlap on certain aspects, it’s a dps loss

you seem to be very sure about your claims, how about some data such as dps tests, kill times etc.

ilr.9675:

Staff Guard /w 2h weapon recharge discount if you wanna Might Stack.
12 stacks > 3 stacks

We actually stopped using Empower. It turned out to be really bad in conjunction with Signet of Inspiration or redundant.

Usually we have 3 warriors using FGJ+ sig for 18 20s stacks. Or a LH ele with a fire field for 25 20s stacks. What we found is in either setup the short lasting Empower stacks overwrite the good stacks unless you’re careful about the order you apply the buffs (too must hassle in a normal run) and we maintained more Might in the long run by using exclusively 20+ duration stacks instead of the short ones.

As an aside, this is why Forceful Greatsword is bad on warriors in organized groups: the 5 second Might stacks chew up your 20 second stacks and you average fewer stacks in any fight longer than 9 seconds.

Basically, the duration of the Might stacks matters more than the amount because you’re trying to get a high average number over time rather than a huge number at the start and looks awesome but which will evaporate in 10 seconds.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Dub.1273:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Bomb Kit + Elixir Gun + Shield + Heal Turret, while throwing grenades the rest of the time.

I’m also interested in seeing this alleged 9 minute Arah duo speedrun video.

I don’t really see the fire field here. If someone else gives you a combo field fire you could also take LH eles, who additionally grant fury and maintain much higher dps.
You might check gwscr.com if you are interested in screens or videos of records im talking about.

Anyway, are you EU servers? If so we can just duo some arah paths and we will all see how much better your ranger/engineer is than my warrior because i’ll fraps and upload it.

Fire Bomb is a fire field. Could you at least make an effort to wiki this stuff beforehand?

And no, I am US server. I don’t know what the current exploit is for skipping Lupicus anyway, if there even still is one.

you can solo kill lupi.

im in the US server, ill offer to record your lupi tests or kills if you want.

else i know another way where u can test your dps purely without disturbances if you prefer. only requires a few people, ill record for you.

What does skipping lupicus have to do with a professions strength?

Just record whatever you want in this game on your engineer or ranger. I’d be doing it all with warrior in ~half the time and less effort.

Also i see one fire field in your combo that will let you stack 3 stacks of might. 3 != 15, you know.

Bread.7516:

you can solo kill lupi.

im in the US server, ill offer to record your lupi tests or kills if you want.

else i know another way where u can test your dps purely without disturbances if you prefer. only requires a few people, ill record for you.

Don’t like to play advocate but (probably) his spreadsheets assume team support so solo tests are invalid, just like every dps test made strictly for dungeons.

Broadicea.8294:

I’ll just hold my breath over here waiting for those Engineer/Guardian/Ranger 30 minute Arah p4 runs. Or any path of any dungeon run as fast as a real speedclear group comp.

https://www.google.com/search?q=skeleton+on+computer&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=8pXUUYGVL9D2qQHC44HoCg&biw=1360&bih=643&sei=9JXUUbWTA6i_ygHckIHQCw

Then put 5 engineers together and compare that to 5 warriors.

There is simply no situation in the whole game where i’d prefer an engineer over a warrior. Basically because warrior provides better utility (also including knockdowns, fear), more dps support and more raw damage.

Dub.1273:

Then put 5 engineers together and compare that to 5 warriors.

There is simply no situation in the whole game where i’d prefer an engineer over a warrior. Basically because warrior provides better utility (also including knockdowns, fear), more dps support and more raw damage.

You still don’t understand. Five engineers don’t give any teamsupport 1 or 2 could already give. What you should compare are whole team compositions.

haviz.1340:

Bread.7516:

you can solo kill lupi.

im in the US server, ill offer to record your lupi tests or kills if you want.

else i know another way where u can test your dps purely without disturbances if you prefer. only requires a few people, ill record for you.

Don’t like to play advocate but (probably) his spreadsheets assume team support so solo tests are invalid, just like every dps test made strictly for dungeons.

makes things a lot more simple then. he can get his friends to do the usual dungeon run, ill just fill in a slot and record. i have every class on 80 and geared anyway so i can tailor it to his request.

So with this setup we can see how fast the dungeon runs go.

In an organized the might stacks an engineer may throw out become meaningless. So the only thing to do is showing that warriors do more raw damage than engineers. Which is the case, everywhere, everytime.

He can do anything he wants with 1-5 engineers or rangers, replacing those with warrior is simply better.

I know Guanglai from another board, specifically an engineer PvE Board. Generally his posts are pretty good, and engineers are really good for the utility they can provide in a dungeon. The thing is, most dungeons in GW2 are stupidly easy and simply do not require any utility.

I will say that I absolutely hate ranger sword. All it took was 1 CoE p2 run for me to lock away my ranger for good. The auto attack chain disabling dodges is just crippling for me.

I like how you guys still haven’t figured out the basic concept behind “warrior support does not stack”. You want warriors for Empower Allies, FGJ, Banner of Discipline, Banner of Strength, and Battle Standard. A single warrior can take all of those so you don’t need more than one. The only thing a second warrior will bring to the party is 3 extra might stacks from FGJ and 150 extra power from Empower Allies (which, last I checked, actually does stack). The problem is, warrior DPS is actually pretty bad, so two warriors with Empower Allies (+300 power on each) actually deals less than, say, a warrior and a guardian.

You CAN get to 25 might and fury with 5 warriors but you are basically jumping through hoops to coordinate it. It will WORK, it just isn’t optimal. There’s a difference. The problem is that most people aren’t able to perceive it, because they base their impression on “this feels like it does a lot of damage because it made a big number” rather than actually objectively measuring their contribution.

The fact that 5-warrior runs in CoF tend, on average, to be the slowest runs is pretty much all the proof you need of this. I don’t even join the “$$$$$ FAST FARM DPS ZERK WARRIOR OMG SO GOOD” runs anymore, most take forever because warriors are honestly rather crap for DPS. They are more of a support class than anything, which is why they do such good solo damage. Self-support. Which is different from having a high base DPS.

Warrior’s aren’t crap for dps, pugs are crap for dps.

Still waiting on those Guardian/Engie/Ranger speedclear videos.

Aaaaaaaaany minute now.

Broadicea.8294:

Still waiting on those Guardian/Engie/Ranger speedclear videos.

Aaaaaaaaany minute now.

Not gonna happen. It’s one of those keyboard warriors with nothing to back up what they say.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

The only thing a second warrior will bring to the party is 3 extra might stacks from FGJ and 150 extra power from Empower Allies (which, last I checked, actually does stack). The problem is, warrior DPS is actually pretty bad, so two warriors with Empower Allies (+300 power on each) actually deals less than, say, a warrior and a guardian.

Ya… just tested this with another warrior, they dont stack. When I gives the buff to myself i get the 150 power, when the other warrior procs it he replaces my buff and im stil at 150+ power. Does not stack.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

They are more of a support class than anything, which is why they do such good solo damage. Self-support. Which is different from having a high base DPS.

Huh?…

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I like how you guys still haven’t figured out the basic concept behind “warrior support does not stack”. You want warriors for Empower Allies, FGJ, Banner of Discipline, Banner of Strength, and Battle Standard. A single warrior can take all of those so you don’t need more than one. The only thing a second warrior will bring to the party is 3 extra might stacks from FGJ and 150 extra power from Empower Allies (which, last I checked, actually does stack). The problem is, warrior DPS is actually pretty bad, so two warriors with Empower Allies (+300 power on each) actually deals less than, say, a warrior and a guardian.

You CAN get to 25 might and fury with 5 warriors but you are basically jumping through hoops to coordinate it. It will WORK, it just isn’t optimal. There’s a difference. The problem is that most people aren’t able to perceive it, because they base their impression on “this feels like it does a lot of damage because it made a big number” rather than actually objectively measuring their contribution.

The fact that 5-warrior runs in CoF tend, on average, to be the slowest runs is pretty much all the proof you need of this. I don’t even join the “$$$$$ FAST FARM DPS ZERK WARRIOR OMG SO GOOD” runs anymore, most take forever because warriors are honestly rather crap for DPS. They are more of a support class than anything, which is why they do such good solo damage. Self-support. Which is different from having a high base DPS.

Empowered allies does not stack. Warrior provides support to the group through DPS while still able to bring group might, vuln and group fury, better than any other class. It is very simple, high dps, group might, group fury, and vuln.
Having 3 banners on 1 warrior is just, well, I tried not to laugh. Then I laughed a lot.

How is 25 constant might with 5 warriors a huge leap in needed coordination? 2 war banners (these can be rotated each boss fight) 8 might, 5 fgkittenight, constant swapping-8might, actually, you dont even need war banners take signet.
Signet with good weapon rotation and FGJ spamming easily 25 might and full fury for the duration of every fight. Like where do you get the idea it would be so hard to do that with 5 warriors.