Guild Wars 2

Dempsey.8760:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I like how you guys still haven’t figured out the basic concept behind “warrior support does not stack”. You want warriors for Empower Allies, FGJ, Banner of Discipline, Banner of Strength, and Battle Standard. A single warrior can take all of those so you don’t need more than one. The only thing a second warrior will bring to the party is 3 extra might stacks from FGJ and 150 extra power from Empower Allies (which, last I checked, actually does stack). The problem is, warrior DPS is actually pretty bad, so two warriors with Empower Allies (+300 power on each) actually deals less than, say, a warrior and a guardian.

You CAN get to 25 might and fury with 5 warriors but you are basically jumping through hoops to coordinate it. It will WORK, it just isn’t optimal. There’s a difference. The problem is that most people aren’t able to perceive it, because they base their impression on “this feels like it does a lot of damage because it made a big number” rather than actually objectively measuring their contribution.

The fact that 5-warrior runs in CoF tend, on average, to be the slowest runs is pretty much all the proof you need of this. I don’t even join the “$$$$$ FAST FARM DPS ZERK WARRIOR OMG SO GOOD” runs anymore, most take forever because warriors are honestly rather crap for DPS. They are more of a support class than anything, which is why they do such good solo damage. Self-support. Which is different from having a high base DPS.

Empowered allies does not stack. Warrior provides support to the group through DPS while still able to bring group might, vuln and group fury, better than any other class. It is very simple, high dps, group might, group fury, and vuln.
Having 3 banners on 1 warrior is just, well, I tried not to laugh. Then I laughed a lot.

How is 25 constant might with 5 warriors a huge leap in needed coordination? 2 war banners (these can be rotated each boss fight) 8 might, 5 fgkittenight, constant swapping-8might, actually, you dont even need war banners take signet.
Signet with good weapon rotation and FGJ spamming easily 25 might and full fury for the duration of every fight. Like where do you get the idea it would be so hard to do that with 5 warriors.

Okay, yeah, I just tested it and it doesn’t stack. I remember it used to. All the more reason to take a ranger for Spotter.

Also, ask yourself why you would go through that kind of trouble to get your party to 25 might when you could just take an engineer, get better DPS out of it, and get MORE might and vuln to boost. Then, since you are likely capped on might and vuln already, and Battle Standard/rangers can provide fury easily, you don’t even need to take any more warriors. You can either spread out your class distribution to take advantage of the other buffs (regen from elementalist’s Soothing Mist, etc.) or just stack up on guardians for max DPS.

I’ll say it again. Warriors are easy to throw together a pug group with but not very good if you are trying to minmax. It is very easy to test. Join any 4war1mes CoF group, time the fights (since most of CoF is just idling), then switch to ranger or engineer. You can usually shave a good 10-15% off the kill times, just from switching out a warrior for that one engineer or ranger. Switch out the other two warriors for guardian/ranger/engineer, it goes even faster.

Guardians honestly deal way too much damage considering they are supposed to be the defensive “knight” class. Though I guess they are kinda slow and don’t self-stack offensive buffs very well, is the tradeoff.

Dempsey.8760:

Empowered allies does not stack. Warrior provides support to the group through DPS while still able to bring group might, vuln and group fury, better than any other class. It is very simple, high dps, group might, group fury, and vuln.
Having 3 banners on 1 warrior is just, well, I tried not to laugh. Then I laughed a lot.
—

Care to educate me why 3 banners is funny on a Warrior?

Also have you guys considered cooperation? If Guanglai has an idea and you have the manpower then why don’t you just make it happen?

Wethospu.6437:

Dempsey.8760:

Empowered allies does not stack. Warrior provides support to the group through DPS while still able to bring group might, vuln and group fury, better than any other class. It is very simple, high dps, group might, group fury, and vuln.
Having 3 banners on 1 warrior is just, well, I tried not to laugh. Then I laughed a lot.
—

Care to educate me why 3 banners is funny on a Warrior?

3 banners = 3 rangers you can equip with a real weapon!

Wethospu.6437:

Dempsey.8760:

Empowered allies does not stack. Warrior provides support to the group through DPS while still able to bring group might, vuln and group fury, better than any other class. It is very simple, high dps, group might, group fury, and vuln.
Having 3 banners on 1 warrior is just, well, I tried not to laugh. Then I laughed a lot.
—

Care to educate me why 3 banners is funny on a Warrior?

My Ranger CoF video proves it’s a valid tactic.

swiftpaw.6397:

Wethospu.6437:

Dempsey.8760:

Empowered allies does not stack. Warrior provides support to the group through DPS while still able to bring group might, vuln and group fury, better than any other class. It is very simple, high dps, group might, group fury, and vuln.
Having 3 banners on 1 warrior is just, well, I tried not to laugh. Then I laughed a lot.
—

Care to educate me why 3 banners is funny on a Warrior?

3 banners = 3 rangers you can equip with a real weapon!

o.o why didnt i think of that before! thats sounds pretty broken, inb4 nerf.

Nikaido.3457:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

or just stack up on guardians for max DPS

This is getting delirious.

shhhh, just grab some popcorn and enjoy!

This thread is getting way to spicy to read for someone who just came home from work

Delay.6908:

Nikaido.3457:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

or just stack up on guardians for max DPS

This is getting delirious.

shhhh, just grab some popcorn and enjoy!

Pretty much this.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I like how you guys still haven’t figured out the basic concept behind “warrior support does not stack”. You want warriors for Empower Allies, FGJ, Banner of Discipline, Banner of Strength, and Battle Standard. A single warrior can take all of those so you don’t need more than one. The only thing a second warrior will bring to the party is 3 extra might stacks from FGJ and 150 extra power from Empower Allies (which, last I checked, actually does stack). The problem is, warrior DPS is actually pretty bad, so two warriors with Empower Allies (+300 power on each) actually deals less than, say, a warrior and a guardian.

You CAN get to 25 might and fury with 5 warriors but you are basically jumping through hoops to coordinate it. It will WORK, it just isn’t optimal. There’s a difference. The problem is that most people aren’t able to perceive it, because they base their impression on “this feels like it does a lot of damage because it made a big number” rather than actually objectively measuring their contribution.

The fact that 5-warrior runs in CoF tend, on average, to be the slowest runs is pretty much all the proof you need of this. I don’t even join the “$$$$$ FAST FARM DPS ZERK WARRIOR OMG SO GOOD” runs anymore, most take forever because warriors are honestly rather crap for DPS. They are more of a support class than anything, which is why they do such good solo damage. Self-support. Which is different from having a high base DPS.

In terms of weapon damage coefficients what other class can have a sustained dps like a warrior?
keep in mind trait bonuses gives warriors really high damage, and the axe to GS spam cycle’s dmg coefficient is really high.

you seem to not want to do a video, maybe it’s a hassle for you.

how about just showing us your spreadsheet or calculations, real data instead of just a few snippets of your claims?

Nikaido.3457:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

or just stack up on guardians for max DPS

This is getting delirious.

I thought we were finally at the stage where people were recognizing how strong guardians are for DPS? I know the official forums tends to be pretty behind the curve (and Guru slightly less so) but Guardian DPS has established for quite a while now. Let me explain it for those of us who aren’t really up-to-date on the meta.

1) Guardians have higher skill coefficients than warriors do. Compare the greatswords, for example. Guardian auto (296, 296, 442) hits harder than the warrior’s (259, 259, 333). Whirling Wrath deals 1421 over two seconds (710/second), while Hundred Blades deals 2030 over 4 (507/second). These coefficients are offset by the warrior’s ability to stack more damage-boosting traits (he gets about 10% more damage boosts than the guardian does) but that’s not enough to catch up to the guardian’s higher base damage, as you can see from the numbers above.

2) Guardians simply have more skills that deal high damage. They have Whirling Wrath, Symbol of Faith, and Binding Blade. By comparison, warriors have Hundred Blades, Whirlwind Attack, and Rush. Of those two, HB is the only one that can be used consistently; the other two are reliant on mob placement and size. Moreover, HB is a long 4-second channel, which drastically increases the likelihood of being interrupted for a substantial DPS loss.

3) Guardians have way better ranged DPS. That one is self-explanatory.

In objective numbers and an ideal situation, the guardian will hit about 9.25k/s, while the warrior gets 9.17k/s. That’s not a huge difference, but remember #2 above; the guardian’s damage is much more consistent overall, so he is much more likely to actually hit that 9.25k number in practice.

To make this even easier to understand:

Guardians can make lots of big numbers appear. Warriors can’t make as many big numbers appear and sometimes when you press buttons the numbers aren’t as big. The guardian numbers are bigger so they are gooder.

Why do you keep bringing up warrior’s GS auto attack damage when people who speedclear don’t use them?

• Guardian Whirling wrath is about <3 secs and >2secs and the damage is maximized IF you can get the full 15 hits (which is possible) but standard is 9 hits. The downside is the cooldown 10s. While he can burst, the problem comes after the burst. While guardian is auto attacking it’s losing the dps race against warriors using axe auto attack.

• Warriors should never complete and autoatk cycle on GS, save for the 1 or 2 slashes before swapping. Blade trail is also good for dps when there is no walls, if there is WW deals huge damage. Axe auto attack steals the cake for consistent DPS. Warrior also gives a 2 vuln for cyclone axe, and 1 vuln per autoatk on GS (which you do about 1 slash in a cycle)

• Traits – guardian traits aren’t laid out as well as warriors in terms of damage boosting and stat boosting synergy. Warriors give a huge damage boost on the % damage area whereas guardians have less. 20% on aegis uptime is huge but reality is you will not always have that consistently when stacking most of the time (maybe just some fights).

Please show real data and findings, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you might have found something but just like everything without proof and data, assumptions and claims do not matter.

In terms of raw dps guardian vs warrior, if you claim guardian to be the better we can easily test this out and i can record it. I can tailor whatever character you need to prove your point and test it.

Bread.7516:

In terms of raw dps guardian vs warrior, if you claim guardian to be the better we can easily test this out and i can record it

For the record, lets not include reflected damage in this dps comparison since we all know there are certain bosses that can have 250k+ damage reflected back into their faces.

Nikaido.3457:

> Warrior also gives a 2 vuln for cyclone axe, and 1 vuln per autoatk on GS (which you do about 1 slash in a cycle)

Actually, since the patch that buffed the guardian’s vuln duration a pure, 100% dps built guard could probably maintain more vuln now cycling between blinds and symbols.

Hmm, that’s good to know. I really like guardian and i’m personally testing things out on my free time. I’ll give it a look-see.

Ather.5091:

Bread.7516:

In terms of raw dps guardian vs warrior, if you claim guardian to be the better we can easily test this out and i can record it

For the record, lets not include reflected damage in this dps comparison since we all know there are certain bosses that can have 250k+ damage reflected back into their faces.

Reflect is situational, so i agree on this. I’m suggesting a dps test on a sandbag boss that cant really hit back and has a set duration on how much damage you can do to him. coe p3 evolved destroyer. imo it’s a pretty accurate meter given the tools we have to work with.

If anyone else has dps tests they are interested in doing with this method feel free to contact me, i’m always interested in it.

Nikaido.3457:

Because how could you make guardians look better if you didn’t use strawmen.

Guardians have good dps. They don’t have warrior-level of dps though. And lol@consistency of said dps, by using the greatsword guardian as an example.. whirling wrath is one of the most inconsistent dps skill in terms of how much damage it can do. It varies between good to bad in a constant manner and the only way to get decent damage out of it is to pretty much be permanently “inside” the mob (disable the melee assist). Which of course won’t give out decent performance as a cleave on groups of mob.
As for ranged dps there are so few fights that you range in a decent dungeon guild group that it simply doesn’t matter. Warriors could have the worst ranged dps and it wouldn’t change anything.

I’m not playing excel wars 2. Show us real world results. Where is this mythical group that stacks guards and get better times than groups that stack warriors.

If you are talking consistency of DPS, a warrior who is unable to hit Whirlwind Attack hits about 7.75k DPS, even if he is able to hit full HB and Rush. Meanwhile, a Guardian who does NOTHING but auto-attack still hits about 7.8k. So yes, guardian greatsword is always going to be more consistent that warrior greatsword.

As for damage using a swap rotation, the warrior’s axe hits about 9.3k, while the guardian’s sword hits 9.1k. The guardian’s cooldowns on greatsword actually rotate quite cleanly as well (even better than the warrior’s IMO) so it’s not like the warrior switching to axe between HBs is something only it can do. The guardian can switch to sword for auto-attack DPS just as well.

Incidentally, I actually play the game. The numbers are there to back up and confirm observations, because they are hard to argue with (although you guys sure seem to like to argue with them anyway). As a warrior, I end up having to interrupt HB pretty much all the time to dodge and the like. Meanwhile, as a guardian, I rarely, if ever, dodge mid-WW. That’s just a simple fact, a 4-second rooted channel is much harder to squeeze in safely than a 2-second mobile one. HB is also backloaded (most of the damage comes from the last hit) so being interrupted also hurts it a lot more than interrupting WW.

Dude, just post a video. Nobody cares about your ranting until you show actual video evidence.

And if you can’t do that, the guys on here seem plenty willing to test whatever conditions you want to use.

Can I trouble you with another question, Guang?
You sound like you’re using DPS, like, the actual meaning of the word and not just a blanket synonym for damage. That’s not something very common around here! And I wanted to jump at the rare opportunity to ask something that’s been bothering me mathematically.

I’m curious what your packet cutoff is for calculations? 30 seconds, a minute, two minutes? Or is there a Patchwerk somewhere?

I’m asking because in GW2 there just isn’t any standard slice of time or overarching time-based feature like enrage to help guide what a practical timelimit for a ‘battle’ consists of, and where you choose the cut off point can wildly swing a set of data in favor/against people whom are using high-cooldown utilities to generate bursts of damage versus more sustained outputs.

Guanglai, would you please stop talking (without showing any math so far) and start recording videos to prove use/me wrong? Im aware of the fact that guardians can deal more damage – it will simply (almost) never happen. And there still is the “engineer” thing. Their offensive support is nonexistent (party with 25 stacks might) and their base dps is really low. They can’t choose a melee weapon, just through utility that tool thing but it’s dps is crap. Grenade kit was what you were talking about (25 stacks vulnerability) and even that lacks of damage. Even if all your grenades will hit which often isn’t the case, at least when fighting ranged or against tiny enemies.

And please stop that “lets see how big a number i can get”
or CoF blabla, im neither impressed much on high 100b’s (even if it’s fun to deal 12k+dps while channeling) nor do i do any cof. What i care most about is solo-ability (so warriors outshine anything else by far in almost all circumstances) and secondly good dps in groups for contributing as much as i can.

PS: I hope in it’s actual meaning – damage per second. Good point you brought up with burst vs sustained damage by the way. Burst is everything you need in 9/10 situations.

Also 100b is not a 4 second channel, it’s 3.6 seconds.
And its dps does not lean towards the end of the attack.
And another thing: since LOD/DnT are using a dps guardian it should be pretty easy to see if he deals more damage than a warrior. Your calculations simply don’t include all traits and especially miss the likelyhood of traits triggering. Guardian has good dps in comparison to most professions but it doesn’t come close to warriors damage output.

My last lupicus pug took almost 10 minutes. Phase 1 was 1 minute and 15 seconds (soloed, they didnt want him to get grubs), phase 2 about 3 minutes and phase 3 was divided into two parts. First part (50-35%) took 3 minutes and 20 seconds, second took 2 minutes and a bit. In the second part they have all been dead…

like a ranger and pet relationship

Wukunlin.8461:

like a ranger and pet relationship

Well, I have offered various reasonable methods to test out his claims. From capturing a video dungeon speedrun, raw data calculations to see where those numbers popped up, to something as simple as getting that guardian build and ill do everything while giving credit to him.

I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt because I’m sure there are some things in the game that could be pushed further.

Probing for more information is always fun for me but at the end of the day claims without data that leads to it is all smoke and mirrors. Sort of like a ponzi scheme (correct my analogy if it’s wrong, im not very good at it)

I can pretty much figure out his intentions for posting, also it seems as if he has something to hide (related), so I think I’ll just sit back and enjoy the show now. Good day.

yeah uhh… wasn’t this originally about rangers? wuat happen?

Oh I forgot to add something about calculating damage. the tool tip base damage is said to be very inaccurate and you might want to take a look at this page regarding skill coefficients.

http://pvx.gw2buildcraft.com/Damage_Calculations#Skill_Coefficient

imo anet should be providing us with accurate data and not let us go through hoops just to get simple data. We even have to figure out how long it takes to use each skill manually.

All i can really say is, im absolutely amazed at how many people are blind on this forum, its pretty impressive. If you think ranger is useful or deals acceptable amount of damage, your theory is so wrong its laughable. GW2’s ranger is like a class from a completely different game, a class built in a game where high dps is not tolerated (Teletubbies MMO).

I’ll respec my Guardian and do CoE, record it, and then make a new thread about it. I’ll get the spec Guang is suggesting. I’m getting more curious as this thread goes along, I’m still skeptical for sure, but I’m going to make an effort and see what the results are. For now, though, I’ll leave some videos that have been posted in the past.

Guang’s Engineer VS Strife’s Warrior: http://youtu.be/EkdtCbTx_E8
Guang’s Guardian at the Slave Driver: http://youtu.be/Ac2NGGjjPsU
Strife’s Warrior at the Slave Driver: http://youtu.be/EUhUj1aL0yA

Has that really been him on guardian? Because i dish out more damage on my guardian and still don’t come close to warriors.

Dub.1273:

Has that really been him on guardian? Because i dish out more damage on my guardian and still don’t come close to warriors.

I believe it’s him, he posted it on Guru a long time ago. I hit 4k+ on a regular basis with my Guardian, sometimes over 5k on the first two attacks in the Sword chain. The last hit has gone over 9k as well, so I’m not doubting the potential if I do a GS / Sword Focus with something like 30/30/10/0/0 maybe. I’ll track down the build he suggests and give it a go.

My guardian is setup to maintain decent soloability while providing maximum (offensive) support possible to the party. Though im using scholar runes because there is no kittening sense to use 6x eagle or boon duration, lol.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

HB is also backloaded (most of the damage comes from the last hit) so being interrupted also hurts it a lot more than interrupting WW.

“Most” now means 20% I guess.

Guangmath.

Nice party bug

Interrupting 100b doesn’t hurt any more than interrupting whirling wrath.
The dps of the skill stays same.

HB is backloaded? The last hit of HB hits around twice as hard but also takes around twice as long. This guang guy reminds me of those 2 trolls in DB LA who talks about how eles and thieves are OP just to annoy people.

well, back then i had a very rough test (non-conclusive). but it implied that if you don’t land the last hit of 100b, you’re better off using axe auto atk. but due to the recent changes of axe it would be very different.

So back then, in a CoE setting, i usually wait for the aoe, then swap GS > WW> 100b to make sure my 100b landed

Team Contribution = individual_dps + team_damage_boons + enemy_vuln_stacks

This is why warriors are required for speedclear records and why rangers and engineers can never replace a warrior and still maintain record times.

Vox Hollow.2736:

Can I trouble you with another question, Guang?
You sound like you’re using DPS, like, the actual meaning of the word and not just a blanket synonym for damage. That’s not something very common around here! And I wanted to jump at the rare opportunity to ask something that’s been bothering me mathematically.

I’m curious what your packet cutoff is for calculations? 30 seconds, a minute, two minutes? Or is there a Patchwerk somewhere?

I’m asking because in GW2 there just isn’t any standard slice of time or overarching time-based feature like enrage to help guide what a practical timelimit for a ‘battle’ consists of, and where you choose the cut off point can wildly swing a set of data in favor/against people whom are using high-cooldown utilities to generate bursts of damage versus more sustained outputs.

I don’t use anything like time cutoffs. My general formula for calculating DPS is to find the total damage of any given skill and find the DPS advantage (total skill damage – auto-attack damage in same period of time) then divide by the skill’s effective coodown (channel time + cooldown). That gives you to the skill’s DPS over time, which you can just add with the other skills to get overall DPS.

After that, I multiply by crit and trait modifiers, factoring in average chances for procs and other stuff.

So for example, say you have:

1) Auto attack that hits 1k/s.
2) Skill #1 that hits 2k over 1 second with a 9s CD.
3) Skill #2 that hits 4k over 2 seconds with a 18s CD.
4) Skill #3 that hits 1k over 2 seconds with a 8s CD.
5) Skill #4 that hits 600 instant cast with a 30s CD.

1) Auto = 1000 DPS.
2) Skill #2 = 2000 – 1000 = 1000 damage advantage every 10 seconds = +100 DPS
3) Skill #2 = 4000 – 2000 = 2000 damage advantage every 20 seconds = +100 DPS
4) Skill #3 = 1000 – 2000 = 1000 damage loss, not factored into calculations
5) Skill #4 = 600 damage advantage every 30s = +20 DPS

So total base DPS in this example would be 1220 DPS.

Next let’s say this character has +916 power, +630 precision, and +30% crit damage.

1) Your power is doubled from base power (916 + 916) so your power modifer is 2.
2) Your precision gives you a crit chance of (630/21 + 4) = 34. You have a crit damage of 80% (base 50%) so your formula for crit damage modifer is 1 + (.34 * .8) = 1.272.

Next, traits. Say you have:

1) A trait that gives a flat bonus of 10% damage.
2) A trait that gives a flat bonus of 5% damage.
3) A trait that has a 10% chance to apply 10 seconds of vulnerability every second.

1 + 2) Damage boosts compound, so you get 1.1 * 1.05 = 1.155.
3) A 10% chance to apply 10s of vulnerability is an average of 1 second of vulnerability guaranteed. As such, this trait is treated as 1s guaranteed vulnerability.

Add all that up and you get:

Base damage * power modifier * crit modifier * trait modifier * vulnerability modifier = 1220 * 2 * 1.272 * 1.155 * 1.01 = about 1810 DPS.

There you go, basic math lesson. Now you can crunch your own DPS numbers.

Go play the game, realize engineer/ranger/guardian dps are kitten compared to warriors dps, come back and go take the walk of shame.

I play a lonely ranger
The only class that I have ever known
Don’t know why it’s bad
But it’s good to me and I walk alone

I walk this empty dungeon
On the Boulevard of Broken classes
When the forum sleeps
And I’m the only one and I talk alone

I talk alone
I talk alone
I talk alone
I talk a…

My pet’s the only one that walks beside me
My poor dps is the only thing that’s beating
Sometimes I wish someone up there will recognise me
’til then I pew pew alone

Ah-ah, ah-ah, ah-ah, aaah-ah,
Ah-ah, ah-ah, ah-ah

I’m walking down the line
That divides me from the reality that my dps is bad
On the border line
Of the edge and where I walk alone

Read between the lines
What’s kittened up and everyone’s dead.
Check my poor group utility
To know I’m still alive and carrying bad pugs.

ed: ^^^^ oh my sweet jesus lol

Excel Wars 2.

Still waiting on those speedclear videos.

Broadicea.8294:

ed: ^^^^ oh my sweet jesus lol

Excel Wars 2.

Still waiting on those speedclear videos.

He won’t make those videos. He will pretend you don’t even exist because he doesn’t want to prove himself wrong.

Boulevard of Broken classes. I really liked Boulevard of broken dreams.

I like how the response to overwhelming numerical evidence has always been “PLEASE GIB VIDEO”. Then the response to a video is always “I DON’T LIKE THAT VIDEO PLEASE GIB DIFF VIDEO”.

Based on my experience having this exact same conversation multiple times in the past, it always goes like this:

1) I say something which I thought was obvious, i.e. engineers being a broken class.
2) Someone thinks warriors are better (it’s always warriors for some reason).
3) We get into an argument where he cites HB numbers and posts a screenshot of a big number he once got on HB.
4) I give him numbers showing warrior DPS actually isn’t that good.
5) He ignores the numbers and demands a video.
6) I provide a video.
7) He ignores the video and demands a different one, and/or denies the obvious contents of the video.
8) I get bored of the conversation and leave, since it’s pretty much already settled.
9) About a month or two later, everyone realizes I was right all along. The guy I was originally arguing with does too but doesn’t want to admit he was wrong, so he pretends he was just playing devil’s advocate/trolling/saying something else.

I think right now we’re at about step 4. I’m going to save myself a bit of trouble and skip to step 9, if that’s alright with everyone.

What happens is, you come out with a video supporting your claims. If it outdoes the current view people accept it and we all shift to that. If it doesn’t, you are asked to provide proof or shift your own view. Unfortunately what usually happens is the person making the outrageous claims makes a video where he omits things out, makes excuses as to why he cannot meet the expectations of others or just doesn’t make a video and continues to assume the ’I’m right, you’re wrong lalalalala can’t hear you’ attitude.

Argh god why can’t you -1 a post

Haha, great new text for Boulevard of Broken Dreams, swiftpaw!

guang’s engineer test video

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I like how the response to overwhelming numerical evidence has always been “PLEASE GIB VIDEO”. Then the response to a video is always “I DON’T LIKE THAT VIDEO PLEASE GIB DIFF VIDEO”.

Based on my experience having this exact same conversation multiple times in the past, it always goes like this:

1) I say something which I thought was obvious, i.e. engineers being a broken class.
2) Someone thinks warriors are better (it’s always warriors for some reason).
3) We get into an argument where he cites HB numbers and posts a screenshot of a big number he once got on HB.
4) I give him numbers showing warrior DPS actually isn’t that good.
5) He ignores the numbers and demands a video.
6) I provide a video.
7) He ignores the video and demands a different one, and/or denies the obvious contents of the video.
8) I get bored of the conversation and leave, since it’s pretty much already settled.
9) About a month or two later, everyone realizes I was right all along. The guy I was originally arguing with does too but doesn’t want to admit he was wrong, so he pretends he was just playing devil’s advocate/trolling/saying something else.

I think right now we’re at about step 4. I’m going to save myself a bit of trouble and skip to step 9, if that’s alright with everyone.

In this case it has been:

1) You say something obviously wrong.
2) We all think warrior do better dps.
3) You claim that we think 100b is better because it makes a high number appear, which actually noone from us thinks.
4) You show incomplete math.
5) Since your calculations suck we demand a video.
6) You don’t show a video. Someone else posts a video of you showing that your guardians dps sucks.
7) We tell you your video does actually back up OUR claims and not yours. We demand another one.
8) You don’t want to get kitten by seeing that your claims have been nothing but kitten. You leave the conversation.
9) You will probably never see that we’ve always been right since you can’t even see it now that your claims are totally far away from reality.

We’re now at 4) but i’ll skip to 10) which is:

10) I get infracted for beeing rude or w/e by simply raging about how much kitten a person can have in his/her head.

And then i move to point 11).

11) I stop raging, drink a beer and simply troll from now on since everyone knows that your claims have been kitten. No more need to prove you wrong.

Lol @ broadicea, probably that’s really the math he did for engi dps.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I like how the response to overwhelming numerical evidence has always been “PLEASE GIB VIDEO”. Then the response to a video is always “I DON’T LIKE THAT VIDEO PLEASE GIB DIFF VIDEO”.

Numbers don’t mean much especially if your hitting a practice dummy. I offered this as somewhat of a joke for people to show us something that proves rangers are any better than it. The reality is that pets are pretty bad and rangers don’t do a ton of damage which they really need to do since they don’t offer much to the party. They can be a good source of fury but other classes do it with better dps and utility. They give the 150 precision but a warrior banner is a lot better than it. They have nothing else to give to the party except healing spring and the spirit which dies quick and you have to run out of combat to use it for it to stay alive and lose out on dps in return (shown in Chopps’s video). Sure they can stack might but it’s on themselves and a party can stack all the might you need.

I was called out by Chopps by he never bothered to respond back to my post of comparing his ranger show off video with terrible numbers and long fights compared to a group of better classes with big numbers and quicker fights. I gave him a challenge to show us that rangers are as good or better but I got nothing but silence as expected. Same with a couple other threads.

If you would like to take the challenge then go for it. Do it with 3+ rangers. I said 2 before but since you feel so strongly I will say 3 instead. More should be better right?

Beat lupi in under a minute
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4FyXNgX2CE

Fractal 48 (no lower)
(these were normal runs and not let’s get a record run like the lupi one.
they didn’t know I was even recording and we have done a bunch of them faster)
Captain Ashym 0:56 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18WL-QGZDsA
Mossman 3:00 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9cJWm-toi0
Bloomhunger 1:18 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAFxIG-3awM
Legendary Shaman Lornarr 2:30 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7EyabBIfmk
Archdiviner 2:20 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_CxZV3WYk8
Raving Asura 1:20 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EoSxlE2yCw
Jellyfish Beast 3:33 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-T1FZ61rcU
Legendary Rampaging Ice Elemental 2:41 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh8j6DRIOms
Legendary Dredge Powersuit 3:15 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDDPPsBnB8k
Legendary Imbued Shaman 5:15 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKdOMkq43OY
Champion Grawl Shaman 2:00 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvOlDiArL4M
Old Tom 1:00 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSYyqyW1cp4
Final Seal Archdiviner Fight 9:00 (spent 1m longer since we missed a charge) = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QD85exhKXcw

I guess it’s hard for the devs to balance the game from when I watch some footage of them doing the molten facility, they have a ranger spamming nothing but a bow and not using the elite, a guardian auto attacking with a staff the whole time, and the one commenting on it says they are doing pretty good so far. Compare that to the what we do in the videos I linked. It’s not a surprise that there is an imbalance given that.