Guild Wars 2

Player needs better gear.
Player equips magic find to try and get better gear.
Player ostracized for magic find.
Magic Find blamed for dragging performance down.
AFK people, idiots who don’t dodge, glass cannons that repeatedly wipe, people not smart enough to stay behind reflective wall, people not smart enough to stay in healing symbols, people too stupid to plant kegs at the gate, people that don’t res teammates, people that don’t kill adds in a boss fight (Vines vines vines), people that don’t repair their armor, and people that run crappy builds are not blamed for dragging performance down.

I use magic find in dungeons, and I really stack it on heavily on my Guardian. HEAVILY. I’m sorry if people need someone to blame, go ahead and blame Magic Find guy. But you know why I’m “Magic Find guy?” Because it’s SO EASY otherwise, and I at least want to at least be rewarded nicely for doing dungeons. Don’t ever party with me, because my extensive knowledge of dungeons, ability to listen, and ability to coordinate attacks will definitely bring down the performance.

If you really want to be a Nazi about your party members, you’re free to make them ping their armor to chat, and you’re free to kick them if you don’t like their gear, and you’re free to kick them if they don’t listen to you. But annoying little kitten who cry about gear not being optimized bring down performance, and fun, of the game a lot more than Magic Find Guy.

A guy spent 5 minutes crying about my “Luck” stacks, but the whole time I was fighting mobs, and he was auto-attacking while crying about it. Gear inspection is stupid. Play with guildies or friends who don’t use it if you don’t like it. Welcome to Life: You don’t have control over everyone else and you can’t control everyone else.

So heavily disagree and non-support for this suggestion. People have a right to use Magic Find, especially if they know how easy the dungeon is. I don’t do a dungeon just to “feel the overwhelmingly awesome feeling of completing the awesome dungeon with an awesome battle and triumphing with my awesome party.” I’m running dungeons to get tokens, loot, and money. That doesn’t mean I’ll be an idiot and ruin the run. Also, I carry my main armor around just for the very rare happening that we start to do bad. And if I do it, tons of other people do it. So judging people on magic find is absolutely ridiculous.

See, magic find is a glass cannon setup – well, let’s say glass gun. If you can run a glassy build and not die, by not running a proper glass cannon you are making the run slower, essentially wasting your own time as well, as you could get those tokens faster.
With all your knowledge, experience and ability to coordinate with people and not die without those extra hp/armor bits, you could dish out much more damage than you do using mf in the major stat slot.
And this exactly means dragging the general performance down. Not wiping, dying all the time or whatever – but consciously and willingly making the run slower than it could be, even for yourself.

What gets me personally annoyed is the fact of doing it consciously. If someone is new to a dungeon and dies at each group, they have the potential to learn and get better at it. If someone isn’t smart enough for something, probably they will understand their errors sooner or later.

It gets even more so silly now that we know that mf doesn’t work with chests. We don’t kill that many mobs in dungeons to make mf worth it even for the user, especially when compared to doing the run faster, aka making just a bit less money – or the same, as mf is still rng – but doing it considerably faster. This means more time for other dungeons, aka more cash and tokens in the long run.
It probably doesn’t affect you much if you run only one route per sitting – 10 extra minutes don’t make a difference then. However if you do all the routes, wasting extra 30+ minutes total because two people run mf instead of berserker (if they’re so super awesome with glassy builds indeed), is outright silly.

drkn.3429:

See, magic find is a glass cannon setup – well, let’s say glass gun. If you can run a glassy build and not die, by not running a proper glass cannon you are making the run slower, essentially wasting your own time as well, as you could get those tokens faster.
With all your knowledge, experience and ability to coordinate with people and not die without those extra hp/armor bits, you could dish out much more damage than you do using mf in the major stat slot.
And this exactly means dragging the general performance down. Not wiping, dying all the time or whatever – but consciously and willingly making the run slower than it could be, even for yourself.

It gets even more so silly now that we know that mf doesn’t work with chests. We don’t kill that many mobs in dungeons to make mf worth it even for the user, especially when compared to doing the run faster, aka making just a bit less money – or the same, as mf is still rng – but doing it considerably faster. This means more time for other dungeons, aka more cash and tokens in the long run.
It probably doesn’t affect you much if you run only one route per sitting – 10 extra minutes don’t make a difference then. However if you do all the routes, wasting extra 30+ minutes total because two people run mf instead of berserker (if they’re so super awesome with glassy builds indeed), is outright silly.

Doesn’t matter what we say, they will call us elitists and scum and get mad at us and etc.. these are the kind of people who come on here and complain about dungeons being too hard and so on. I am now just using this thread as a way to find out who go’s next on the block list so I don’t invite them by accident when I’m pugging and have to put up with it.

I advertise for people with a decent gear set and experience and yet they still apply so, best way to avoid it.. especially for Arah Path 4. They don’t understand it. ‘So it takes a little longer’, ‘so you have to res us every fight.. ’ blah blah blah. Guess what? I dont want to be in a dungeon for ages. Guess what? I dont want to have to res you every fight. Guess what? It’s none of your business who I choose to take in my group. If you want to run Magic find, it’s not going to be in my group, take it to another group or to your plinx farms.

Last night my CoE run that usually takes 25 mins took twice as long because 3 players thought it was a good idea to all run magic find. Needless to say they died about 5 times + each Alpha encounter, and me and the other player had to hold everything together till the magic finders ran back.

I’d somewhat understand mf in some dungeons if chests were affected – getting potentially more lodestones and specific skin rares might be not that bad. But as it is now, it’s not only silly, but also shows greed – something inherently bad in any human culture out there. It becomes a matter of principle, too – others are bringing everything they can to the table, even if it means less experience and general skill than you, and you run mf gear which only – potentially! – benefits you, while dragging the party performance down. GW2’s greed in its worst.

Now, i don’t pug but mainly because of people who can’t dodge, use 10 levels too weak fine equipment or just refuse to cooperate. Running mf is really far on my why-not-to-pug list.

drkn.3429:

I’d somewhat understand mf in some dungeons if chests were affected – getting potentially more lodestones and specific skin rares might be not that bad. But as it is now, it’s not only silly, but also shows greed – something inherently bad in any human culture out there. It becomes a matter of principle, too – others are bringing everything they can to the table, even if it means less experience and general skill than you, and you run mf gear which only – potentially! – benefits you, while dragging the party performance down. GW2’s greed in its worst.

Now, i don’t pug but mainly because of people who can’t dodge, use 10 levels too weak fine equipment or just refuse to cooperate. Running mf is really far on my why-not-to-pug list.

True. Ive seen alot worse in my pugging days, especially gear-wise.
My guild recently has stopped playing so I’ve had to start taking full pug groups and it can be very frustrating when they don’t cooperate.

swiftpaw.6397:

drkn.3429:

See, magic find is a glass cannon setup – well, let’s say glass gun. If you can run a glassy build and not die, by not running a proper glass cannon you are making the run slower, essentially wasting your own time as well, as you could get those tokens faster.
With all your knowledge, experience and ability to coordinate with people and not die without those extra hp/armor bits, you could dish out much more damage than you do using mf in the major stat slot.
And this exactly means dragging the general performance down. Not wiping, dying all the time or whatever – but consciously and willingly making the run slower than it could be, even for yourself.

It gets even more so silly now that we know that mf doesn’t work with chests. We don’t kill that many mobs in dungeons to make mf worth it even for the user, especially when compared to doing the run faster, aka making just a bit less money – or the same, as mf is still rng – but doing it considerably faster. This means more time for other dungeons, aka more cash and tokens in the long run.
It probably doesn’t affect you much if you run only one route per sitting – 10 extra minutes don’t make a difference then. However if you do all the routes, wasting extra 30+ minutes total because two people run mf instead of berserker (if they’re so super awesome with glassy builds indeed), is outright silly.

Doesn’t matter what we say, they will call us elitists and scum and get mad at us and etc.. these are the kind of people who come on here and complain about dungeons being too hard and so on. I am now just using this thread as a way to find out who go’s next on the block list so I don’t invite them by accident when I’m pugging and have to put up with it.

I advertise for people with a decent gear set and experience and yet they still apply so, best way to avoid it.. especially for Arah Path 4. They don’t understand it. ‘So it takes a little longer’, ‘so you have to res us every fight.. ’ blah blah blah. Guess what? I dont want to be in a dungeon for ages. Guess what? I dont want to have to res you every fight. Guess what? It’s none of your business who I choose to take in my group. If you want to run Magic find, it’s not going to be in my group, take it to another group or to your plinx farms.

Last night my CoE run that usually takes 25 mins took twice as long because 3 players thought it was a good idea to all run magic find. Needless to say they died about 5 times + each Alpha encounter, and me and the other player had to hold everything together till the magic finders ran back.

You named everything I wanted to say in one post. Very nicely said. I’m building my ignore list as well.

I’m okay with showing what kind of gear someone has on.
this is guild wars, not wow.
in wow, an epic item can have varying stats, depending on tiers and progression. they’re not gear gradelocked.
in GW2, all exotic gear has stats balanced to the exotic grade. and honestly, is it THAT difficult to get full exotics? really?

just leave it as is, however i would like a little stat bar near the others for “attack” and such that listed the current magic find for the player to see

I had a guy with Sigil of Luck. Asked whether he has mf gear or not (of course not!). But why would someone use Sigil of Luck if not for mf?
Anyways, he was disgrace to humanity. Seriously, standing few meters away refusing to revive people because it might be dangerous? Asked him to revive people and he said that he revives people by killing enemies. Ok nice idea but why I then spent 10 seconds reviving people under fire?

First time I have booted someone mid-run, and felt really good.

Remove MF gear from the game. Increase base drop rate to compensate.

(keep consumables and other non-gear MF buffs)

All MF gear in game becomes unequipped, converted to berserker (closest relative), and un-soulbound.

LOL I’ve run some MF on a toon or 2 and generally find in a majority of cases I tended to live longer than quite a few others who were specced out in non mf gear. If you’re aware of what’s going on around you it isn’t that much of an issue. I usually get together an alternate set of gear for specific things (like dungeons)over time of course but newer players prolly don’t have that option.

swiftpaw.6397

Doesn’t matter what we say, they will call us elitists and scum and get mad at us and etc.. these are the kind of people who come on here and complain about dungeons being too hard and so on. I am now just using this thread as a way to find out who go’s next on the block list so I don’t invite them by accident when I’m pugging and have to put up with it.

I advertise for people with a decent gear set and experience and yet they still apply so, best way to avoid it.. especially for Arah Path 4. They don’t understand it. ‘So it takes a little longer’, ‘so you have to res us every fight.. ’ blah blah blah. Guess what? I dont want to be in a dungeon for ages. Guess what? I dont want to have to res you every fight. Guess what? It’s none of your business who I choose to take in my group. If you want to run Magic find, it’s not going to be in my group, take it to another group or to your plinx farms.

Last night my CoE run that usually takes 25 mins took twice as long because 3 players thought it was a good idea to all run magic find. Needless to say they died about 5 times + each Alpha encounter, and me and the other player had to hold everything together till the magic finders ran back.

Where to begin…

First off, I vehemently oppose the suggestion. Secondly, I feel that dungeons are either balanced properly or too easy. It is a tough call, it really depends on where ANet wants the line to be; either way, I’m fine with the difficulty.

You want people with decent gear and experience and you get other people. These people are called “liars”. Assuming that you properly qualified “decent” to make it clear that you wanted combat-centric gear, they lied about their qualifications. I don’t want these people in my groups either. It has nothing to do with their choice of gear, it has everything to do with their integrity. If I can’t trust you to tell me “I’ve never done this before” or “I forget this fight” then why should I commit 30-120 minutes to working with you? I can’t, so I won’t. I support this idea, but I see the magic find crusade as a witch hunt.

I support your right to be an elitist, if that is the label we’re using this week. If you only want people that have certain qualifications, that is fine by me. I insist on qualifications in my dungeon runners too. Well, I should—I tend to cave, and I need to raise them, but that is a separate matter entirely—too many people are focused on getting 80 that they neglect their gear, then they become an under-geared liability thinking that wearing level 70 blues to AC will be fine because of the scaling.

What I resent are the calls to eliminate this as a viable playstyle—I will break out the MF gear when things are too easy or I’m carrying the rest of the group… also, it is much cheaper to repair than my good gear. I oppose any move that encourages the community to be misinformed—by publishing this information, you encourage people to screen out players in MF gear, not because they are a liability, but because they were trained to do so.

I’m sure that you know better, and I’m sure you are completely reasonable, but the world is a big place and not everybody is as reasonable as your or has the forethought to recognize how complicated assessing “capability” can be. I don’t care that you don’t want these people in your groups, what I care about is planting the seeds of prejudice based on misinformation.

Noticing that 3 defensive and/or offensive stats pumped up are better than 2, with the third slot wasted for greedy mf, is not really misinformation.

drkn.3429:

Noticing that 3 defensive and/or offensive stats pumped up are better than 2, with the third slot wasted for greedy mf, is not really misinformation.

Ineptitude is far more of a liability than stats. You know this. I know you do, you’re too smart not to.

The misinformation is that a player wearing MF gear must be worse than a player without. Why else would this be the only stat that matters? Why aren’t you looking at gear quality and level instead, that would tell you as much or more than simply the MF tally. To assume that this one little stat summarizes the whole of a player’s ability is to be willfully myopic, and to encourage players to do this is to spread misinformation.

The same player with the same level of ineptitude running mf gear is subpar to what he would be able to achieve when running a different setup, regardless of offensive/defensive choice, simply because they would get 3 useful stats instead of 2 useful and 1 greedy.

A bad player would be ‘less bad’ if they were running a 3-stat gear rather than an mf set; tanky gear would suit them best, as it’s most forgiving on mistakes. Mf setup is not tanky at all.
A good player, being really awesome with running glassy build, would be ‘more good’ if they were running a 3-stat gear rather than an mf set; the examplatory berserker/ruby setup would let them dish out more damage, aka contribute more damage to the overall party dps, aka get things done faster – for everyone, not just them.

I have nothing against taking lv35 people for my AC runs, or lv55 people into TA; i have not much against full glass cannon builds – i don’t trust people in general, and i don’t trust they will manage to pull the glass builds off, meaning everyone will have to res them all the time and we’ll just waste more time; but i am strongly against bringing mf into a dungeon first and foremost because it’s greedy and doesn’t contribute to total party efficiency in any way, defensive or offensive, while still not being as useful for the user as they might think given mf doesn’t work with chests (no higher chance to get lodestones etc).

Wasting a stat slot comes second to being a greedy, egocentric kitten, which is fine in open PvE, but not in a proper dungeon delving party.

e:
It all really boils down not to min-maxing everything, but to respecting your party members and their time. Bringing mf stat is unfair and rude, even if it doesn’t keep you wiping the floor all the time. It still takes the general party efficiency down, considering the same player with the same knowledge, experience and general skills, possibly bringing two gear sets – one mf and one not.
To add salt to the wound, bringing mf is a conscious choice – we may say that an elementalist running rampager set is not properly geared and stuff, but they’re probably not min-maxing stuff enough (or yet) to notice that condition damage sucks in PvE, especially on eles. It’s not about bringing the most efficient builds at all times, it’s about having respect to people you play with and bringing everything you humanly can, in the boundaries of your own skills and time, to the table.

happy.1248:

It would be nice to be able to see how much MF gear a player is equipped with when they are on your team. This will create a fairer and more enjoyable game-play when we form public teams.

I would like to know my own as well. I don’t care so much for knowing other people’s scores at all actually because there’s a reason why we can inspect, it’s called discrimination and it’s rampant in the mmo world. But knowing my total MF would be nice.

Altho while they are at it they need to effectively eliminate DR in open world events and they need to address MF’s malfunctions because the evidence that there’s something seriously wrong with it is mounting. I want them to address it properly before adding any more armor to the game.

‘Ineptitude is far more of a liability than stats. You know this. I know you do, you’re too smart not to.’

Hey you stabbed someone.. but you know what would have been worse? If you killed them. So it’s ok.

No. That’s just not how it works for me. You have the capacity not to take the MF to begin with and be even better. You take magic find, likelihood of bad player increases. Not everyone who wears magic find is bad. We know this. But there sure is a higher chance they will be when you are taking someone you don’t know. The only argument here is this:

-Same player-
-same scenario-
-Two different gear sets-

One set Magic Find
One set three stats that contribute towards performance.

The player does better in the set with the three stats. In many cases the set with the three stats compensates for the player’s ineptitude at playing the game.

This is not hard.

@drkn: We’re saying the same thing, except you want everyone to give 100%, and I want everyone to contribute 20% of the group’s effectiveness (assuming a 5-person team).

If I can match the contribution of everyone in my party while wearing full MF gear, why shouldn’t I be allowed to? Isn’t that my reward for being better at the game than they are?

Because you still could contribute more if you’re better than other players. The sole fact that you’re in a party with terrible players doesn’t mean you can slack off as well.

swiftpaw.6397:

‘Ineptitude is far more of a liability than stats. You know this. I know you do, you’re too smart not to.’

Hey you stabbed someone.. but you know what would have been worse? If you killed them. So it’s ok.

No. That’s just not how it works for me. You have the capacity not to take the MF to begin with and be even better. You take magic find, likelihood of bad player increases. Not everyone who wears magic find is bad. We know this. But there sure is a higher chance they will be when you are taking someone you don’t know. The only argument here is this:

-Same player-
-same scenario-
-Two different gear sets-

One set Magic Find
One set three stats that contribute towards performance.

The played does better in the set with the thee stats. In many cases the set with the three stats compensates for the player’s ineptitude at playing the game.

This is not hard.

If I can contribute more in my magic find gear than you can in your 3-stat gear, I am not the one that is screwing the party over. Yes, I could make the run go better for everybody, but I can handicap my own performance and still outperform you and everybody else (in theory). Don’t I deserve a little something for working harder and getting more done?

I get that you hate people that wear MF gear. I understand that. I undertand you have a bone to pick because somebody did something that screwed you over once. You’re looking at the wrong group—you’kittengeting the wrong aspect of play. You should be looking for a way to effetively combat people that don’t contribute to groups, as opposed to people that are contributing less than their theoretical maximum but potentially more than anybody else. You cannot claim that these people, even hindered by sub-par stat choice, are necessarily worse than anyone else.

The fact that you akittengeting magic find, and magic find alone tells me you don’t actually care about creating objective assessments of your potential group mates, you just care about being holier-than-thou.

drkn.3429:

Because you still could contribute more if you’re better than other players. The sole fact that you’re in a party with terrible players doesn’t mean you can slack off as well.

But they could work harder and get better to contribute more. Is it really so difficult to not dodge everywhere you go so that you have enough endurace to avoid some hits, or to trade out a DPS amulet for a tanky one? Possibly swap utilities ebtween fights or remember to use the ones you ahve when appropriate.

In the ideal world, you have a point. This is not ideal.

If you can contribute more but you’re consciously not doing it because you’re greedy, you’re a rude person not respecting my time and i don’t want you in my groups – even if you can run all dungeon routes blindfolded and never make a mistake.
On the other hand, if someone is REALLY trying, putting all the effort they’ve got, asking how to improve, trying out the best build and combos they heard of and on top of that never ragequit – i’d take them anywhere with me, even if they constantly die in the beginning. I’m willing to take more time to do something and allow them to learn, give them opportunity to improve.

It’s about attitude, too, you know, not just min-maxing stuff. A noob willing to learn and become better is much more welcome than a greedy pro.
Problem is – just like you can’t see if someone’s using mf gear, you can’t also grade another person’s attitude – when it’s right. You can, however, judge someone bringing mf into dungeons as greedy kitten consciously dragging the total party output down or just slacking off, and all for just personal gain. Single player games are for that.

e:
Bolded the important parts for you.

e2:
Inbefore possible comment on it: yes, a noob that brought EVERYTHING they had, even if it’s not much, and tries to improve everywhere they can, stays focused but just needs more practice – they respect my time, just needs to get through the rough beginnings of dungeon delving. We all were there.
I actually like bringing guild noobs (when it comes to dungeons) with me as long as they listen and are willing to learn. I do not, however, take anyone in their mf gear with me, guildie or not.

Fildydarie.1496:

swiftpaw.6397:

‘Ineptitude is far more of a liability than stats. You know this. I know you do, you’re too smart not to.’

Hey you stabbed someone.. but you know what would have been worse? If you killed them. So it’s ok.

No. That’s just not how it works for me. You have the capacity not to take the MF to begin with and be even better. You take magic find, likelihood of bad player increases. Not everyone who wears magic find is bad. We know this. But there sure is a higher chance they will be when you are taking someone you don’t know. The only argument here is this:

-Same player-
-same scenario-
-Two different gear sets-

One set Magic Find
One set three stats that contribute towards performance.

The played does better in the set with the thee stats. In many cases the set with the three stats compensates for the player’s ineptitude at playing the game.

This is not hard.

If I can contribute more in my magic find gear than you can in your 3-stat gear, I am not the one that is screwing the party over. Yes, I could make the run go better for everybody, but I can handicap my own performance and still outperform you and everybody else (in theory). Don’t I deserve a little something for working harder and getting more done?

I get that you hate people that wear MF gear. I understand that. I undertand you have a bone to pick because somebody did something that screwed you over once. You’re looking at the wrong group—you’kittengeting the wrong aspect of play. You should be looking for a way to effetively combat people that don’t contribute to groups, as opposed to people that are contributing less than their theoretical maximum but potentially more than anybody else. You cannot claim that these people, even hindered by sub-par stat choice, are necessarily worse than anyone else.

The fact that you akittengeting magic find, and magic find alone tells me you don’t actually care about creating objective assessments of your potential group mates, you just care about being holier-than-thou.

Omg it’s as if you don’t even read what I am saying.

*MY ONLY ARGUMENT IS THAT MAGIC FIND IS ONE STAT LESS WHICH = LESS PERFORMANCE ON THE SAME PLAYER. *

Oh the horror.
kitten that’s so hard to understand.
You then jump to assumptions.
You want to slack off in your teams, go ahead, but its not going to be my team, and dont spread all this crap around about Magic find sets being the same effectiveness as a set with 3 viable stats, because they aren’t. You cant argue around that, all you do is turn it into a personal attack on anyone who understands that. It’s a simple thing.

3 stats are better than 2. 3 stats are better than 2. 3 stats are better than 2. 3 stats are better than 2. 3 stats are better than 2. 3 stats are better than 2. 3 stats are better than 2. 3 stats are better than 2.

Not. Hard. To. Understand.

Had the 3 people in my CoE team decided to wear 3 stat sets, it would not have been anywhere near as painful. They would have had another stat to help keep them up.

These people in CoE, I’m sure they thought the same, they thought they deserved more for being ‘smart’ and wearing magic find. But who pays the price? The people who do the right thing, the people who do everything they can to make the dungeon run smoothly. They lose out.

You call this a one time event, I have done many many dungeons and trust me, I have yet to see a single person in a magic find set do equal or better than what they could be doing in a 3 stat set. I have however seen train wreck after train wreck of people who think they are so amazing that they don’t need a 3rd stat, who think they ‘deserve a little extra.’ At the expense of others.

You aren’t this amazing player that everyone aspires to be. You are a person who can survive in a magic find set and not drag the team down. wow. That must mean everyone can do that. No, they get the bad idea from you and then go and ruin my dungeon runs.

Yep I’m the horrible person. For telling people, that 2 stats are not as good as 3. I’m just a horrible elitist for telling people what common sense should have figured out, but is destroyed by people like you.

As I said, you have a case in the ideal world. Lets look at some real world exampels and how they fit into your mold. (italicized terms are anonymized-but-accurate)

I used to play a MMO with a ranger that would always get high right before a dungeon. This impaired his reflexes, severely enough that everyone noticed. He wore top-shelf gear. Clearly his attitude was off but he flies under your proposed radar. the onyl way to catch this type of person is to see them in action, which is exactly when you would catch somebody offering sub-par performance in MF gear, if they were in fact performing sub-par.

A relative of mine plays GW2 and, despite being 80, wears, at best, low-70s blues. His chestpiece is a mid-70s white, transmuted to match his other armor, with a rare rune in it—the only rune of any rarity he has. Just putting him in a group drops their effectiveness considerably. He tries hard to do well, but is so used to failure because he adamantly refuses to change his gear to something better, and he can’t farm level-appropriate areas because he has let it go for too long. You won’t hear me say he doesn’t try, but MF gear would be an improvement for him. If I spotted him a set and he put it on (he needs the money for repairs just trying regular open-world content), you would exclude him not because he is borderline inept, but because he is wearing gear that is better than anything he had been wearing to-date that is no the best he could have.

There are people that have never done the content before, or have never done it on the class they are playing. They are willing to try hard, but you’re not willing to take them because they don’t meet your “experienced dungeoneer” threshold. Who is willing to try harder? You’re consciously putting completion time ahead of other people, and that is greedy.

Your test does not achieve your stated objectives, therefore it should be rejected. You have both false positives and false negatives with real-world examples.

Fildydarie.1496:

As I said, you have a case in the ideal world. Lets look at some real world exampels and how they fit into your mold. (italicized terms are anonymized-but-accurate)

I used to play a MMO with a ranger that would always get high right before a dungeon. This impaired his reflexes, severely enough that everyone noticed. He wore top-shelf gear. Clearly his attitude was off but he flies under your proposed radar. the onyl way to catch this type of person is to see them in action, which is exactly when you would catch somebody offering sub-par performance in MF gear, if they were in fact performing sub-par.

A relative of mine plays GW2 and, despite being 80, wears, at best, low-70s blues. His chestpiece is a mid-70s white, transmuted to match his other armor, with a rare rune in it—the only rune of any rarity he has. Just putting him in a group drops their effectiveness considerably. He tries hard to do well, but is so used to failure because he adamantly refuses to change his gear to something better, and he can’t farm level-appropriate areas because he has let it go for too long. You won’t hear me say he doesn’t try, but MF gear would be an improvement for him. If I spotted him a set and he put it on (he needs the money for repairs just trying regular open-world content), you would exclude him not because he is borderline inept, but because he is wearing gear that is better than anything he had been wearing to-date that is no the best he could have.

There are people that have never done the content before, or have never done it on the class they are playing. They are willing to try hard, but you’re not willing to take them because they don’t meet your “experienced dungeoneer” threshold. Who is willing to try harder? You’re consciously putting completion time ahead of other people, and that is greedy.

Your test does not achieve your stated objectives, therefore it should be rejected. You have both false positives and false negatives with real-world examples.

It’s almost as if I’m talking in another language..

swiftpaw.6397:

You aren’t this amazing player that everyone aspires to be. You are a person who can survive in a magic find set and not drag the team down. wow. That must mean everyone can do that. No, they get the bad idea from you and then go and ruin my dungeon runs.

Yep I’m the horrible person. For telling people, that 2 stats are not as good as 3. I’m just a horrible elitist for telling people what common sense should have figured out, but is destroyed by people like you.

I don’t wear MF to dungeons, but I respect the right of others to do the same. I wait to see how the run is going and how people are working out before coming to conclusions about their preparedness and my willingness to group with them again.

I undertand that a player in MF is not at their peak. I get that. Read my kitten-loving post before saying I don’t understand this seemingly simple point.

Trying to attack my reading comprehension to make your point establishes your lack of ability to form a cogent argument or understand the perspectives of others.

If you cared about what a player does relative to their maximum, you wouldn’t care about their MF, because it doesn’t contribute, you would care about everything else because that is what you need to find out if their build actually works or is just a mess. The only conclusion is you don’t actually care, you just have a crusade to wage.

swiftpaw.6397:

It’s almost as if I’m talking in another language..

I replied to drkn. Lost the leading quote. 2 conversations, 1 thread.

If you cared about what a player does relative to their maximum, you wouldn’t care about their MF, because it doesn’t contribute, you would care about everything else because that is what you need to find out if their build actually works or is just a mess. The only conclusion is you don’t actually care, you just have a crusade to wage.

No crusade to wage here, just letting people know that 3 stats are better than 2.

I’m glad none of my parties have ever been like this forum.

Probably 2-3k worth of tokens all with using MF, no one has said a word. Sigil of Luck right beside my name.

All this would do is create a horrible system of armor discrimination. Not to mention that people who like magic find would just switch armors after they start the dungeon. I’m under the impression that everyone hating on players who use magic find are just looking for something or someone to blame for their own shortcomings.

happy.1248:

The purpose to not to ostracize people who wear some MF gear, but to let the team members know what they signing up for. If a person has say 30% MF no problem. If a person has 100%+ MF on a team of 5 it is still manageable. When say two or more people happen to be farming with 100%+ MF then it impact the other members of the team no matter how good you are. Time is a commodity. People should have a right to know if they are able to allocate x amount of time to an event; otherwise, they will avoid public groups or simple avoid doing dungeons. Furthermore, I doubt the GW2 community will need to ostracize people who wear MF gear. When members can see how much MF gear the other members are wearing they will adjust.

So you’d rather spend an extra 10-15 minutes with magic find discrimination than have to deal with the extra 2-3 seconds the person with magic find will cost the dungeon?

drkn.3429:

Try to run a power/toughness/vitality gear in dungeons, or really anything tanky rather than pure glass cannon or MF, and you will see real difference. A single distraction won’t get you downed; a single small error on your end won’t wipe the team if you’re properly geared.

No matter what gear you’re wearing, if you have a distraction that pulls you away from the computer for 15 seconds, and you’re being targeted, you’re going to die. Having 6% less critical hit damage on the other hand will not get you killed.

drkn.3429:

On top of that, keep in mind that MF does NOT affect loot from chests and there aren’t that many enemies to kill in dungeons – SE1 before the patches held the record with a whoopin’ total of 9~14 enemies to kill throughout the whole dungeon.

Those numbers are completely unfounded, I’ve seen several paths with 60-80 enemies.

drkn.3429:

MF also comes with power and cond dmg, but cond dmg sucks hard in PvE and whoever is running MF in WvW deserves a serious kick in the balls.

Condition damage can be great for builds that focus on it. And people running MF in WvW aren’t nearly as bad as the people just there for the exploration, or the jump puzzles, or the people who start gathering carrots in the middle of a fight.

EnemyCrusher.7324:

All this would do is create a horrible system of armor discrimination. Not to mention that people who like magic find would just switch armors after they start the dungeon. I’m under the impression that everyone hating on players who use magic find are just looking for something or someone to blame for their own shortcomings.
.

Of course they are, it’s not like anyone can accurately go, “Oh that guy… that guy must be using MF.” Based on his performance.