Because characters below level 80 are significantly worse then characters at level 80, meaning that they can’t contribute to the group nearly as much as a normal level 80 and people don’t feel like carrying someone through a fractal
Well. You miss gear, therefore damage and agony Infusion slots.
But more importantly: You can make up for your Level by being a good and experienced player…but how is your team supposed to know that you can?
If someone of a low Level joins, you will naturally assume, that they dont even know, how fractals work and go in their with their first char, as some people do for dungeons during leveling.
Soo: You are, in fact inferior in what you can do. And you seem even worse than you actually are. A nice Team wont ever just kick you, but you shouldnt be suprised if they are wary of you either.
Fractals are not an appropiate place for lvling. You can do it, but you should not. At least not with pugs. If you have a group and they are ok with it: no Problem.
But if a pug group chooses they dont want to have a low Level to ‘carry’, dont blame them.
ye, you live longer, but u deal 25% of an 80 lvl player
[…]You can do it, but you should not. At least not with pugs. If you have a group and they are ok with it: no Problem.
But if a pug group chooses they dont want to have a low Level to ‘carry’, dont blame them.
That’s the only relevant answer. Sub 80 chars are less powerfull than lvl 80 characters. Period. If you play with randoms they simply can not know wether your individual skill will make up for it or not. So don’t be surprised if they kick you on sight. If you want to level your toons by doing fractals, find some friends or a guild that doesn’t mind and you’re set. Blaming PUGs won’t solve your problem nor change facts.
ye, you live longer, but u deal 25% of an 80 lvl player
a player who is dead cant dps
fractals are made for lvl 80 characters
music choice aside..
you answered your own question with your post. Fractals are for level 80’s. You also chose the easiest fractal to solo. Either lfg your own group, or Continue to solo.
music choice aside..
you answered your own question with your post. Fractals are for level 80’s. You also chose the easiest fractal to solo. Either lfg your own group, or Continue to solo.
Yes because kiting Mai on engi is easier than fractals like Swamp, Molten Duo or Urban Battlegrounds, right?
Kappa
ye, you live longer, but u deal 25% of an 80 lvl player
a player who is dead cant dps
fractals are made for lvl 80 characters
Absolutely not. From day one the low level fractals were intend to be accessible to all players regardless of thier character level. If it was intended for only level 80’s then they would not up-level them to 80. Orr, Malchor’s, Southsun, Dry Top, Silverwastes and the new HoT maps are not made for level 80’s. Any level character can do the low tier fractals. If you can 1-4 man any fractal then there is no reason a level 50 who is up-leveled can’t join. We helped 2 guildies level from 50-80 doing the 1-19 fractals.
OP, you just need to find some friends to play with, who will help you level.
From the November 14, 2012 news post:
“Unlike the other dungeons, your party can be any level. We’ve employed World vs. World-style sidekicking to make this dungeon accessible to all players. But keep in mind, our aim was to challenge level 80 players. Going in at low levels is not for the faint of heart!”
Fractal are not meant for people below level 80 is why. Level some other way, make you’re own group and put what level you are in the description or ask your guild mates to help you level with fractals.
And before this kitten starts up again: no, expecting players to at least be level 80 is not elitist.
ok heres the thing: youre trying to pug level 80 content on an immediately and clearly inferior toon. expect to be kicked. as an engi, youre extremely useful in fractals in an invisible way that is especially unapparent in low levels where your blinds and might dont matter. even experienced people will be hard pressed to discern how good you are in such easy content, but the fact is that its clearly level 80 content and you arent 80 and a pug will not want to take a chance.
you might have better luck as a support class, but the only useful sub-80 support is ps warrior. if you give that a shot, make sure you say something like “hi im sub 80 but i can ps war just as good as 80, is ok?” and perhaps you wont be kicked as often. (other support: rev needs herald, mes needs chrono, ranger needs druid, and every other class is just dps [in low fractals] and clearly inferior to being 80)
ye, you live longer, but u deal 25% of an 80 lvl player
a player who is dead cant dps
It’s very easily possible for someone to die and still more damage then someone who stays up all fight
Ehmm next to the hate, nice solo =)
In the low level fractals there are really no reasons for a good player to kick underlevels ‘cos the low levels are such a faceroll anyway. If they kick you from low levels they don’t wanna carry you or they’re not confident in their skills/are terrible at the game.
kitten , never seen harder encounter
ye, you live longer, but u deal 25% of an 80 lvl player
not true. If you have yellow+ weapons and gear appropriate for your level, you can do at least like 60% of an optimally geared 80
if you have those crafted exotics that have stats higher than their level, you can probably do just as much dps as an 80
Fractals are level 80 content, if you enter at a lower level than 80 you should be prepared for this, do not forget will also have 1 less spec if you are less than 71, which can go a long way to improving your survivability and or damage.
If you want levels use a tome or go to eotm and join an exp train.
Now that there are new f2p users people are less likely to trust taking a lower level through, someone tried to do a level 40+ fractal with almost no ar, claimed they could defend a point and full died in seconds causing a goo player to leave.
That person had mastery points so can you see why someone may not want to take someone who does not have the level and armour expected of fractals?
Anyway if I wanted to level an alt in fractals, I’d just mention to the rest of the party that I know what I’m doing (noting that I have a personal reward level of 100 and have completed all fractal achievements) and that I have decent gear on and am quite able to pull my weight.
On the other hand, if you don’t know what you’re doing or don’t have decent gear, the rest of the party is fully justified in not taking you if they don’t want to.
music choice aside..
you answered your own question with your post. Fractals are for level 80’s. You also chose the easiest fractal to solo. Either lfg your own group, or Continue to solo.So which fractal wud you advise to solo?
none ;p, your video was to show that you could do it. But it is an easy fractal to solo. Regardless of skill, you would become a burden for a group in content that requires you to be lvl 80. you could MAYBE do 1-9. But you would need to start your own group and prolly with friends. If you plan on doing tedious things, map completion and story missions are the route you should take. PvP is quickest(tomes).
You can not expect a party to keep an under level in content that is lvl 80.
I’m going to go a different direction than most replies in this thread.
First off, why would you want to level via fractals especially on one of your first characters? You are essentially depriving yourself of:
- lore
- immersion into an awesome game world
- a lot of basics as far as map completion, event chains, etc.
It makes absolutely no sense to run fractals on sub 80 characters. Not to mention severly worse geared players compared to 80s. Yes, that is true even for the usual moron pub n00b who plays while being semi afk and having not loged into the game for over a year.
Now if this is a followup character and you absolutely must force rush to 80 (again, not advisable unless this is your 4th character or beyond), why fractals with pugs? Get some friends and have them rush you through some fractals, use cooking, crafting and levelup tomes to get to 80. There are tons of ways to get to 80 asap without having to rely on players you do not know to get to 80.
No one has to take you along, especially if they do not know you. No one has to waste their time giving you a fair chance when you enter their group if they are expecting at least a level 80.
Make life easier on yourself and instead of telling other players what to do or not to do, adapt. In this case, make some friends who know they can take you along on sub 80 characters in low level fractals for example.
I’m usually a very tolerant person when I make groups (no requirement for perfect runes, bare minimum ar for high level fractals, will take along just about any class) but I’d definately kick a sub 80 for fratals. I’d be polite about it, but I just wouldn’t want to waste my time.
(edited by Cyninja.2954)
The question is we can, but why would we?
I have no elitist restrictions on any of my lfg parties, but I do expect the bare minimum. Have adequate Agony, ask questions if you’re unfamiliar with the fractal, and apparently don’t be under leveled. I’ve seen many low level fractals where the people who just want their daily done fast leave when inexperienced players trip on certain mechanics in low level fractals. I just sigh and reopen lfg as I think spending an extra moment to teach the fractal helps with my personal goal of also getting my dailies done. As I not only increase the amount of players who know what to do, but players who saw how I taught it.
Anyway taking a low level person is just out the question, because you just can’t know what kind of time commitment it will be. Plus the giant amount of other ways to level in the game. I think the option for low level players to join fractals is just there so that guilds can show their members what a fractal is like at any time and for them to not feel excluded when they here them talking about it in guild chat.
So I hope you find groups that are fine helping you level, but since I don’t agree I unfortunately can’t help.
And then people cry out that GW2 is dying. If people weren’t so selfish and helped out others by teaching them mechanics we’d have a much nicer/larger community.
Same as always….
If you want to get into a party of your choosing
START YOUR OWN GROUP.
People have a right to play however they want and nobody is obligated to play with you.
You may be lvl 80 full asc 500k AP and have soloed Sabetha and Matt and people might still kick you because they want to and don’t owe you anything!
If you wanna play as a low level/nomad gear/all whites in any content, you can do that, but you can’t force other people ot agree with you.
So stop complaining and start your own group with your own req.
MMOs are a free society and people are entitled to their own opinions.
No offense but grow up.
And then people cry out that GW2 is dying. If people weren’t so selfish and helped out others by teaching them mechanics we’d have a much nicer/larger community.
You do understand though that your comment can be read in multiple different ways right?
Possibility A:
- people should obsess less about lower level players joining their group and instead carry them and explain the game mechanics to them. Thus be less selfish as far as their own desired group composition goes
Possibility B:
- people should be less selfish in their demands to get carried by others. Instead they should have others explain the game mechanics to them (or educate themselves) so all are on the same page. After all, every one has a right to play with people he wants to play with and no one should be forced out of his comfort zone
Question is, who is the more selfish person?
Plain and simple. Low level fractals are designed for all players regardless of level. It is the choice of the group to not allow the people they do not want in the runs.
music choice aside..
you answered your own question with your post. Fractals are for level 80’s. You also chose the easiest fractal to solo. Either lfg your own group, or Continue to solo.So which fractal wud you advise to solo?
Ascalon is pretty easy to solo at low fractal levels if you want to try that.
When most pugs make an lfg they want a smooth, fast run with little stress. They do not owe you a fractal run. They do not owe you a carry. They put up their lfg with the assumption that those that join will be level 80. While the fractal will scale your base stats up to 80, your armor and weapon will still be your standard level. Your traits will still be your standard level. You are asking people to cater to your needs, while being unable or refusing to cater to theirs.
If you want to underlevel or underman fractals, then find some friends and do it with them. Pugs owe you nothing.
I’ll be honest, I mostly run dailies, and If you can step up and hold your own with everyone else and I can’t even notice if your slacking, I have no reason to kick you. So I would not kick you at the start.
If I have to pick you up after every encounter, I would want to kick you, not being rude, I’d want to kick anyone, level would not matter to me.
So I would not vote to kick, unless I saw you being really bad, which is hard to do in a single run fractal.
But, and I gotta be truthful, sadly if someone else opted to kick you, I would most likely second it, because I would wager they had a good enough reason.
I am not going to assume you play something like Soldier Bearbow (just an example, I know you said engineer). Those will indeed manage to stay alive and yet do less than someone else who died at 75%.
The fully geared level 80 can and most likely will do a lot more than you do as a low level player. If he was infact not good enough to outdo a low level player then he should be replaced as well.
You might be big exception here and yet how are pug groups supposed to know that?
I will never agree with those who complain that pugs wish to finish to content as quickly and smoothly as possible. People can set whichever rules they wish in any case.
(edited by Henry.5713)
Stop kicking low level Players from Fractals.
No.
Fractals are bad enough to pug as it is (which is why I usually don’t do it).
If you join a fractal party with a <lvl 80 character you want to be carried. Why? Because it’s level 80 content. You won’t do the damage a fully leveled character does, not even if you had exotic gear – and no kiddin’, who has exotic gear below lvl 80 if it didn’t drop from the story?
You do about nill damage, you die easily, and the other players basically have to do the work for you.
If it’s a party of friends/guildies it’s something else, but I won’t carry people who can’t be bothered to level in other game modes like everyone else does. I’d rather do a low level frac with 3 or 4 people than carry a lazy random.
Same goes for people without AR btw. No AR = instant kick.
I recognized while leveling my Char Engineer that Fractals give alot of Experience but people kick you 90% of the time. Can anyone tell me why?
At the end of this video you can see that i got 1.5 levels for one Fractal!
Can you please not be dumb…
Fractals are not only level 80 content, get that out of your heads. It’s the players claiming it to be. Being level 80 only makes them quicker. I provided proof its not designed for only level 80’s in a post above, where is yours?
Many people don’t want low levels in their parties as you saw. Players are completely free to do this.
Just create your own group for low level players. Perhaps then you’ll understand why you were kicked and why people prefer not to play with them.
Fractals are not only level 80 content, get that out of your heads. It’s the players claiming it to be. Being level 80 only makes them quicker. I provided proof its not designed for only level 80’s in a post above, where is yours?
Do them as level 10 characters.
Solid Ocean is the only fractal I can recommend soloing beyond scale 10. After that, enemies get too much health for the endeavor to be worth your time. Jade Maw’s health, on the other hand, does not increase much with the scale. It’s also one of the shortest even with a group. by far the quickest solo
Fractals are not only level 80 content, get that out of your heads. It’s the players claiming it to be. Being level 80 only makes them quicker. I provided proof its not designed for only level 80’s in a post above, where is yours?
It can be done by characters with level lower than 80, no one is denying that as far as I understood. What we are denying ist that it was designed for anything below level 80.
There is a gap between upscalded 80 characters and normal 80 characters.
1) You have no propper build when upscaled because you lack traits.
2) If you are below level 60 you have no access to Superior Runes.
3) If you are below level 62 you have no access to exotic gear.
4) If you are below level 80 you have no access to ascended gear.
Upscaling works best if your gear matches the level of your character. A level 55 character for example gets the max out of upscaling if they wear level 55 gear.
Therefore a player would have to be above level 62 (Superior Runes + exotic gear) and also have said gear on the exact same level as they are currently to come close to a full exotic level 80 character in stats – if you ignore the build that is.
That means an upscalded player in fractal is a subpar player at best, and permanently dying glasscannon with no damage at worst.
How high is the chance that if groups would allow <80 characters to join them in fractals to get the first categroy of players, and how high is the chance to get the second? I can guess, and it’s not pretty.
Also: from level 10 upwards you need agony resistance to survive in a fractal. Since a character below level 80 can’t have AR they will die instantly. That kinda makes it obvious that they are not supposed to be in there.
So yes, you can go in there … but you can’t expect other people to take you with them when they most likely will have to carry you.
(edited by Ashamir.9574)
So yes, you can go in there … but you can’t expect other people to take you with them when they most likely will have to carry you.
Exactly that. People are as fee to bring you with them or not as you are free to play fractal as a low level or on a level 80. The liberty go both way.
With how much power creep Elite Specializations have introduced, sub80 characters are even further behind max level/geared characters than they’ve ever been before, especially when it comes to straight up arbitrary damage numbers and certain classes like Elementalist and Guardian.
If someone is so far behind in terms of arbitrary damage numbers, then you’re almost purely being carried by the other players. Not many people PUG because they want to carry random people, that’s one of the most central things about PUGs.
(edited by Surbrus.6942)
Fractals are not only level 80 content, get that out of your heads. It’s the players claiming it to be. Being level 80 only makes them quicker. I provided proof its not designed for only level 80’s in a post above, where is yours?
It can be done by characters with level lower than 80, no one is denying that as far as I understood. What we are denying ist that it was designed for anything below level 80.
There is a gap between upscalded 80 characters and normal 80 characters.
1) You have no propper build when upscaled because you lack traits.
2) If you are below level 60 you have no access to Superior Runes.
3) If you are below level 62 you have no access to exotic gear.
4) If you are below level 80 you have no access to ascended gear.Upscaling works best if your gear matches the level of your character. A level 55 character for example gets the max out of upscaling if they wear level 55 gear.
Therefore a player would have to be above level 62 (Superior Runes + exotic gear) and also have said gear on the exact same level as they are currently to come close to a full exotic level 80 character in stats – if you ignore the build that is.That means an upscalded player in fractal is a subpar player at best, and permanently dying glasscannon with no damage at worst.
How high is the chance that if groups would allow <80 characters to join them in fractals to get the first categroy of players, and how high is the chance to get the second? I can guess, and it’s not pretty.
Yes, you can go in there … but you can’t expect other people to take you with them when they most likely will have to carry you.
My point was, that there are multiple people in this post claiming that it is designed as “Level 80 only content” and that if you are not 80 you shouldn’t be there. It was designed for all players regardless of level. If they want the pain and suffering thats up to them and the group, but it uplevels to 80 to help. Is it wrong for someone to randomly join a group as a level 50, no it’s not. It is also not wrong for a group to kick a level 50 because it’s their group. If a group wants to help a lower level player, that’s up to them. But people shouldn’t tell the OP they should stay out of fractals and as well, the OP shouldn’t get mad if he gets kicked from a group.
(edited by Gator.5729)
There was a recent topic similar to this, the guy got kicked from a pug AC explorablE path so he got upset and post a clip of him soloing the spider boss. It is not a good idea to join a pug fractal on a low level. Nobody knows how experience you are in this game or your build/gear with a low level character. Keep in mind, most of the pug LFG are experienced players who want to finish their fractal quickly for rewards. If they think you would slow them down, it is their right to remove from the group. There are many ways to level up in the game, you chose to get carried in fractal, it is all your fault OP.
My point was, that there are multiple people in this post claiming that it is designed as “Level 80 only content” and that if you are not 80 you shouldn’t be there. It was designed for all players regardless of level.
I would like to interject a minor bit of technicality into this, Fractals are 80th level content, this is indisputable, as there are no, for example, 60th level fractal.
Now, I can understand the issue with Up-level mechanic offering a lot of confusion on this subject, in fact, on another topic I had a similar discussion on this very problem with content not having a deliberate and established deftness of intention by the Designers. But unlike that content, the Designers of Fractals, made it very clear exactly what Fractals were designed for by putting in Agony and Agony Resist, which requires level 80 gear, and more of it, to progress higher up the scale.
Ergo, just from that, we can safely surmise that the content was in fact designed for 80th level characters, and that the up-level mechanic in place to allow players who were curious and wanting to experience it with friends to do so, but there is a hard mechanic in place with Agony that should make it very clear, that this content was not in fact designed for anything less then an 80th level character.
Just wanted to put that out there.
My point was, that there are multiple people in this post claiming that it is designed as “Level 80 only content” and that if you are not 80 you shouldn’t be there. It was designed for all players regardless of level.
I would like to interject a minor bit of technicality into this, Fractals are 80th level content, this is indisputable, as there are no, for example, 60th level fractal.
Now, I can understand the issue with Up-level mechanic offering a lot of confusion on this subject, in fact, on another topic I had a similar discussion on this very problem with content not having a deliberate and established deftness of intention by the Designers. But unlike that content, the Designers of Fractals, made it very clear exactly what Fractals were designed for by putting in Agony and Agony Resist, which requires level 80 gear, and more of it, to progress higher up the scale.
Ergo, just from that, we can safely surmise that the content was in fact designed for 80th level characters, and that the up-level mechanic in place to allow players who were curious and wanting to experience it with friends to do so, but there is a hard mechanic in place with Agony that should make it very clear, that this content was not in fact designed for anything less then an 80th level character.
Just wanted to put that out there.
You are right for the fractal levels that require AR, as that is the “drawn line” between level 80 designed content. The fact that it was specifically stated on release by the developers that it was “designed for players of all levels” is a deliberate and established deftness of intention. There is no confusion on the up-level mechanic, it up-levels characters that are not level 80, so that the lower level fractals (19 & under) can be experienced by all players.
How is this even a thread.
My point was, that there are multiple people in this post claiming that it is designed as “Level 80 only content” and that if you are not 80 you shouldn’t be there. It was designed for all players regardless of level.
I would like to interject a minor bit of technicality into this, Fractals are 80th level content, this is indisputable, as there are no, for example, 60th level fractal.
Now, I can understand the issue with Up-level mechanic offering a lot of confusion on this subject, in fact, on another topic I had a similar discussion on this very problem with content not having a deliberate and established deftness of intention by the Designers. But unlike that content, the Designers of Fractals, made it very clear exactly what Fractals were designed for by putting in Agony and Agony Resist, which requires level 80 gear, and more of it, to progress higher up the scale.
Ergo, just from that, we can safely surmise that the content was in fact designed for 80th level characters, and that the up-level mechanic in place to allow players who were curious and wanting to experience it with friends to do so, but there is a hard mechanic in place with Agony that should make it very clear, that this content was not in fact designed for anything less then an 80th level character.
Just wanted to put that out there.
You are right for the fractal levels that require AR, as that is the “drawn line” between level 80 designed content. The fact that it was specifically stated on release by the developers that it was “designed for players of all levels” is a deliberate and established deftness of intention. There is no confusion on the up-level mechanic, it up-levels characters that are not level 80, so that the lower level fractals (19 & under) can be experienced by all players.
Fair points, but, it’s still up to the group to decide if they want to run with someone, I had someone flip out on a ranger in the group because they used a shortbow, like full on nerd rage and then quit the group over it.
As I said above tho, I would not kick someone outright just for being below 80th, but that does not mean I am offering charity either, everyone needs to pull their weight, even in the sub-20 fractals.
Maybe for every one like you there’s a 100 if not a 1000 players either not having gear or having combat skills down to a point where their game is viable for group play.
So I’ll just remember fractals lvl 80 dungeon.
I think I’ll continue to exercise my right to play with whomever I choose, and not play with others.
kthxbye
Smurfland [hc/hP] all you can expect are arguments on why others don’t want to pug with their lowbies or low aps while they solo stuff. Magic.
Quality bait thread m8
Quality bait thread m8
Exactly what I though when I saw OP’s msg, the fact that other guildies including you rushed to this thread simply leaves me thinking all OP wanted to do is to get some flaming over lowbies vs pugs while showing off with the vid.
Reminds of that other thread a while a go, lvl 40 something ele soloing AC p3 cos people normally learn all burrows while pugging on their 400ap account.
yes i am thrilled when a lvl 60 joins a cliffside above lvl 50 with 0 ar and 0 idea what to do.
just other day i had to kick a guy who was lvl 80 with 1k something AP despite we stated 5k ap in lfg. Reason was arrogant behaviour and taking whisps whithout even saying go to other players or saying anything really. After kick he whispered me why kick? Well little fella, i explained, there is something called common curtesy and respect to other 4 people who are in the team with you. He kept joining lfg and we kept kicking him it was really awkward.
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