Guild Wars 2

I don’t care about legendary armor at all, for me it is just an expensive skin (I said it in the other thread, i can only think of heal druid as the only build that benefits from it without changing the rune). They can offer a different set of legendary armor outside the raid, but with a different skin. Most people complaining about the armor won’t finish it anyway.

It may not apply to you, but it is something I’ve heard from many raiders in the past. Everybody’s different.

The World Eater change wouldn’t help at all. You still wipe if you fail to kill the souls and the occassions where someone fails to jump and stays on the plattform are pretty rare. Most people fall down and die anyway.

We had a few cases where players either failed to jump or were downed at the time the wave hit and so couldn’t jump. The point is, it should be possible to recover. I would remove the “no rezzing from defeated” limitation, and given the reduced DPS tolerances, a party could take the time to fully rez a downed player to continue the fight.

I don’t think every single part in the game needs an easy or hard mode attached to it just to please the biggest amount of players.

No, but it’s better when they do, because it pleases more players.

In an MMO this would just take too much developing time.

We still have no confirmation on that.

Plus I like to explore the game in its intended shape and form, regardless of whether this takes a long while or not.

Then you can stick to hard mode, but isn’t it great for people who don’t share that mindset to have other options?

If that means I don’t get all the rewards that’s fine. There’s no way I would be able to anyway, thus some exclusive rewards for those who pass the challenges is totally okay with me. They would have something to show for their accomplishments without feeling cheated when someone just does some easy mode.

I don’t think their right to be upset when someone else has something they don’t want them to have trumps that person’s right to have the thing that they want to have. If the first person can only be happy if the second person is lacking, then the first person does not deserve to be happy.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Blaeys.3102:

Know that we wouldn’t be making noise if we didn’t care about GW2.

Absolutely agree. I know this, and live this, every day. It’s a pleasure to serve a community of players who care so much about our game. Constructive ideas are welcome. Passion is deeply appreciated!

Please don’t give every single person more ideas to complain and Q.Q under cover of ‘’constructive criticism’’ or ‘’constructive ideas’‘. If it’s a bug or a glitch, report it so Anet staff can fix it, if it’s about the game and especially it’s DIFFICULTY, leave it where it is. We don’t have a say in it.

Probably same people cried over Spirit Vale difficulty when it came out and guess what. It can be cleared in under 30 minutes.

Raids overall are meant to be hardcore PvE content, don’t expect to clear it in a night. If you don’t have the time to do raids it’s completely your fault. Pick what’s most important in your life and sacrifice a bit of other things to reach the most important thing. Easy as that. But don’t try to change everything you touch for your personal gain.

if it’s about the game and especially it’s DIFFICULTY, leave it where it is. We don’t have a say in it.

But we do. We’re customers, and if they can make a change that would improve our experience with their product, then it’s worth considering. They might go on to decide that it’s not worth making the change, but they should always at least consider it.

Probably same people cried over Spirit Vale difficulty when it came out and guess what. It can be cleared in under 30 minutes.

Sure, but there are still plenty of can’t complete it in tens of hours, so that’s a moot point. It is still too hard for most players.

Raids overall are meant to be hardcore PvE content, don’t expect to clear it in a night. If you don’t have the time to do raids it’s completely your fault. Pick what’s most important in your life and sacrifice a bit of other things to reach the most important thing. Easy as that. But don’t try to change everything you touch for your personal gain.

Why not? You seem to be happy because you have a raiding experience that conforms to your personal tastes. That’s great, and nobody is trying to change that. We’re just looking to have a raid that’s as fun for us as yours is for you. Why are you opposed to that?

Ohoni.6057:

I don’t think every single part in the game needs an easy or hard mode attached to it just to please the biggest amount of players.

No, but it’s better when they do, because it pleases more players.

In an MMO this would just take too much developing time.

We still have no confirmation on that.

These two statements were supposed to be taken as a whole, not separately. On a bigger scale it most definitely would take too much time to make ALL the things that are now hard, easier and vice versa. I mean it’s slightly off-topic since this topic is just raids, so maybe just for raids it could be fine. But on a larger scale it wouldn’t be.

Plus I like to explore the game in its intended shape and form, regardless of whether this takes a long while or not.

Then you can stick to hard mode, but isn’t it great for people who don’t share that mindset to have other options?

I haven’t tried any hardmode yet. Kinda hard to stick to it. But I don’t deem it necessary to change the game because things might be too hard or too easy for that matter. Plus there are other options in just playing other content that isn’t raids.

If that means I don’t get all the rewards that’s fine. There’s no way I would be able to anyway, thus some exclusive rewards for those who pass the challenges is totally okay with me. They would have something to show for their accomplishments without feeling cheated when someone just does some easy mode.

I don’t think their right to be upset when someone else has something they don’t want them to have trumps that person’s right to have the thing that they want to have. If the first person can only be happy if the second person is lacking, then the first person does not deserve to be happy.

You can have that opinion, but I don’t believe that to be true. If I play a boardgame where only one player wins, then everyone else is lacking but that doesn’t mean the game needs adjusting. I know, that’s a totally different game setup, but it’s the same idea. I’m just not as spoiled into believing that I would be unfortunate when I don’t have some arbitrary piece of gear or some skin. I have enough things to strife for in the game, if I stop and stare at the things I maybe might never be able to get I would just get depressed. All the while it really doesn’t mean anything.

Something I wouldn’t find fun to do I just don’t do. This doesn’t make the rest of the game less enjoyable at all. At least for me. If I run out of things to do I take a break. ANd whether Anet then brings in a piece content rehashed from elsewhere to something I like or whether I play something entirely different that is focussed on things I like is all the same to me.

These two statements were supposed to be taken as a whole, not separately. On a bigger scale it most definitely would take too much time to make ALL the things that are now hard, easier and vice versa.

Well that’s true, but if you use the argument that “if taken to extremes not suggested by anyone, if for no other reason than to disprove that unasked for position,” then it would apply to just about anything. They might as well pack up development now because anything they might add in the future would be insane if taken to extremes that no one would want.

If we just stick to the matter at hand though, an easier raid mode for those that find the current one too hard, there are some clear and indisputable positives, some murky and suspicious negatives, and a dubious amount of effort involved, so it’s hard to argue that they definitely shouldn’t do it, at least not before they report back how much time it would actually take.

I haven’t tried any hardmode yet. Kinda hard to stick to it. But I don’t deem it necessary to change the game because things might be too hard or too easy for that matter.

Well, and that’s fine too. You say “I don’t like how this thing is, but I’ll just ignore it completely and do something else.” I say “I don’t like how this thing is, but here’s some ways to change it that I would enjoy a lot, and I think others would too.” These are both perfectly valid approaches, so long as you don’t assume that your apathy should negate my problem solving.

You can have that opinion, but I don’t believe that to be true. If I play a boardgame where only one player wins, then everyone else is lacking but that doesn’t mean the game needs adjusting.

That’s a tough example though, because the idea with a board game, done right, is that player A might win one time, but player B wins another, and so on, and overall everyone wins occasionally. A board game where only one player ever wins it isn’t something the other players are likely to want to come back to. So it’s a bit hard to compare to a persistent game with persistent rewards.

I’m just not as spoiled into believing that I would be unfortunate when I don’t have some arbitrary piece of gear or some skin.

It’s not “spoiled,” you just have different goals in the game, different things that allow you to enjoy it, and that’s fine, so long as you accept that other players have different goals, and theirs are equally as valid as your own.

Something I wouldn’t find fun to do I just don’t do. This doesn’t make the rest of the game less enjoyable at all. At least for me.

And that’s the important bit, that you recognize that what works for you doesn’t work for other people, and to want other people to get what they want as much as you want what you want, rather than insisting that so long as they have the same things you want, it’s all ok because you’re ok with it.

I am a bit confused though as to why you spend so much time expressing how apathetic and how much you very much couldn’t care less about anything, and yet spend so much time seemingly defending a status quo that you apparently couldn’t care less about because, whatever, right?

It’s not that I’m apathetic to it. I’m just realistic in my expectations. It’s not “needed” but it would be something nice to play, sure. But if they come with something completely different that also brings content to that targeted audience which possibly is way more worth their time, then that’s completely fine too. (Let’s say, Living world 1 story anyone?)

And that’s mostly the message I try to convey here. It can be a great thing to the game, but there’s alot of different aspects to it. Some which we understand, some of which we don’t know and some we don’t understand at all.

But you tend to colour the aspects you think you understand in a positive light and the things you don’t understand in a negative light and then deem to be right and that’s it’s obvious that this is a thing that NEEDS to exists, it’s obvious! Why don’t they do this! Omg stupid! Which is 1. not true, 2. subjective, 3 unrealistic. And you can twist and turn and twist and turn some more, but that’s what it is. And that’s why I can be at peace with something I might not immediately like or not immediately am unsuccessful with. It’s part of life.

It’s completely fine to say, easy mode is a great thing that could be a great addition to the game. But then to come with truths that are opinions and then facts that are choices and all that extra baggage it just doesn’t convey the message at all. Do people indeed want it? I’m sure there’s some people that would enjoy it, myself included. But considering you’re basically one of like a few people on here saying it’s better, I’m not convinced at all. It’s very likely developer time is spend better elsewhere.

In fact I think ArenaNet already discussed this themselves internally. And upto this point in time there’s either someone working on it, or they think it’s not worth their time because of the reasons stated.

It’s not that I’m apathetic to it. I’m just realistic in my expectations. It’s not “needed” but it would be something nice to play, sure.

I’m realistic too. This is something that may or may not happen, and I have no direct control over that, but I will do what little is in my power to influence what I believe will be a very positive change to the game.

And I agree that it certainly doesn’t have to exactly fit my own vision of it, but I believe that this version seems like the easiest method that would actually solve anything, easier than various alternatives suggested, and there are certain check-boxes that I would like to see that this covers. Some of those check boxes are very important to me, some of them less so, but if they release a “solution” that does not check enough of those boxes then I would be very disappointed with it. My most important features would include:

1. That it offers mechanics of similar complexity to the existing ones, but with a lower cost to failure, so that you can push yourself to execute perfectly OR ignore a lot of it and still complete the raid, up to the individual player(s) at any given time.

2. That it offers progress towards the exact same rewards, including Legendary armor, if at a slower pace than clearing the existing raids. Achievements, titles, nametag pips, various other frippery can be locked behind hard mode, but not armor or weapon customizations.

3. That it allows you to explore the raid map like in the normal one, which would be pretty much a given, but still important to point out.

Do people indeed want it? I’m sure there’s some people that would enjoy it, myself included. But considering you’re basically one of like a few people on here saying it’s better, I’m not convinced at all. It’s very likely developer time is spend better elsewhere.

I think you’re making an unreasonable assumption here. This isn’t the only thread discussing some level of dissatisfaction with current raid difficulty, there are several on this board, on general, on the HoT board, on Reddit, all discussing different flavors of the same issue (and no mods, that is not an invitation to collapse them all into an incomprehensible slurry). If they want to do some form of more scientific polling or something I’m all for it because I am confident it would bear me out, but for now we know loosely what elements of the game are enjoyed by the players, what elements tend to be abandoned by the players, I think it’s a fairly safe assumption that more players would appreciate an easier version of the raid than appreciate the harder version.

That’s not an argument to cease development of harder versions, so long as there’s a suitable niche, but there’s little reason to not broaden the likely potential audience. I think a fairly telling statistic, which only ANet would have, would be the number of people who have at least attempted a raid boss at least once, verses the number of people who have actually completed one, or all of the SV bosses. I imagine that there are a great many players who have attempted it and quit entirely after a few tries.

In fact I think ArenaNet already discussed this themselves internally. And upto this point in time there’s either someone working on it, or they think it’s not worth their time because of the reasons stated.

If this is true, then they need to make a better case to the players for their decision. They spend a half hour or more a week talking about the game, they could spend at least five minutes of that time on a topic like this one.

I don’t think we need easy mode raiding.

I find the most difficult challenge in raids is organizing the party. Finding 10 people who know the fight and can play at the same time.

I don’t have a set group of people I raid with. I always form pug groups. My pug groups can consistently beat the wing 1 bosses.

I’ve yet to beat wing 2 in a pug. It’ll happen eventually. People don’t really know the fight, and I’m still experimenting to find optimal compositions.

I really think it is an experience issue. Learn the fight. The fights are hard when you have 10 new people. But it’s perfect when everyone knows what to do.

Guys, you all know that Ohoni wants only one thing, the legendary armor. Since before HOT he was against raids beeing the only means to have it, and was hoping anet would give him another way to have it.
Since he realizes now that anet wont (probably) do it, his only solution is to make raids so easy that he can do it.
Dont believe him when he is saying it will be the best for the raids in the future, or for the raiding community. All he cares about is having legendary armor without doing actual raids…

Dungeons were hard when they first came out. People didn’t know what to do. But they learned, and dungeons became easy.

The same thing will happen to raids. Wing 1 is getting there. Wing 2 is hard right now because it’s new.

Learn the fight. It’s ok to have harder content in this game. Liadri was hard. Getting the pvp backpiece is hard. Raids are hard now. With practice, you can beat them. Don’t nerf something that is so new.

runeblade.7514:

Malediktus.9250:

It already is for most “skill levels”. You just need to put in effort to learn the mechanics of the bosses.

hahahahhahahahhahahaha, go tell that to every group that didn’t invite me/kick me out because I didn’t have an eternal title.

Eternal means nothing. Just yesterday we carried someone with 3k AP through the raids (for free because he applied to our guild).

The easiest implementation I can think of is giving the players a bit of control over their dynamic level adjustment. This then could be implemented across all of the game, and not just raids.

Want to make the encounter/area slightly more difficult? Adjust your level to 2 lower. Want to make the encounter/area a lot more difficult? Adjust your level to 5 lower (this would probably be the cap).

For raids specifically, the entire raid could be adjusted instead of each individual doing it.

~EW

Personally I’d rather ANet pick one difficulty for raids, stick with it, and have multiple content streams (dungeons/fractals/raids and open world content) which cover the breadth of difficulties.

Heibi.4251:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Ohoni.6057:

Here’s one reason: The developers have limited time and resources.

Yeah, we’ve covered this one. The time and resources it would take to implement something like this would be negligible, not remotely enough to counterbalance the benefits it would bring.

At this point, I need to interject. I am familiar with the process of changing to a multi-modality system of game presentation, having written about it long ago, when I was a journalist writing about another company and another game. For that game, too, players said “No big deal.” And they were absolutely wrong. They said, “Just tweak a few stats, lower a few spawns, and voila, you’ve got it!” No, that’s not how it worked. And that’s not how I think it would work for Guild Wars 2.

I will ask about this, and if we’re prepared to say something official, one of us will do so. But it’s counterproductive to have a discussion head down the path of misinformation and what seems to be a growing error in assumption. With all due respect, unless you’re a developer for GW2 you are not qualified to make a statement about the time needed, difficulty involved, or feasibility of such a feature.

You’re welcome to discuss the situation, and we appreciate that you want to do that. We welcome the conversation! But please participate by sharing what you’d like to see, and why, and don’t be misled by individual, external assumptions about the feasibility or practicality of such a request.

I actually do understand the difficulties this would create. But the issue at hand here is ANeT created something for a small percentage of the GW2 players. They ignored the rest and pandered to the few, who, as we see here and other posts about this, respond with pure venom to anyone suggesting anything that intrudes on their world.

I have played GW since GW1 beta and have never seen such elitism play out so blatantly. ANeT’s silence on the issue and refusal to address the 90% speaks in a much louder volume than anything else. All we see is us suggesting something and the players who have succeeded telling us to go learn to play better. It saddens me to see a two tier system created. The elites who have been successful even demanding payment to allow lesser skilled players success at the raids. Almost as bad as gold sellers. Not to mention locking new legendary armor behind the the raid. The question is “Why?”.

There’s nothing wrong with Anet releasing content gear toward a specific segment of the player population. Over 95% (guesstimate) of PvE in GW2 is relatively easy. There’s nothing inherently wrong about have some things in game for those that actually want a challenge.

I’m quite torn about this, I want other people to experience this content but adding difficulty settings won’t make it the ‘same’ experience as the original

What they should do is have mini-raids. One mini-raid per major tactic in the raid that players would need to learn. Gives 1 shard. Does not drop any of the legendary armor items, that’s the reward for graduating to raids. But it does have like 5% of the raid drop rate chance to drop the other items.

So it’s like the homework and the raid is the quiz/test to see if you’ve learned it.

And it would be useful to raiders looking to test strategies against specific bosses but don’t want to spend hours to get to the boss they want to test against.

Ayrilana.1396:

Heibi.4251:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Ohoni.6057:

Here’s one reason: The developers have limited time and resources.

Yeah, we’ve covered this one. The time and resources it would take to implement something like this would be negligible, not remotely enough to counterbalance the benefits it would bring.

At this point, I need to interject. I am familiar with the process of changing to a multi-modality system of game presentation, having written about it long ago, when I was a journalist writing about another company and another game. For that game, too, players said “No big deal.” And they were absolutely wrong. They said, “Just tweak a few stats, lower a few spawns, and voila, you’ve got it!” No, that’s not how it worked. And that’s not how I think it would work for Guild Wars 2.

I will ask about this, and if we’re prepared to say something official, one of us will do so. But it’s counterproductive to have a discussion head down the path of misinformation and what seems to be a growing error in assumption. With all due respect, unless you’re a developer for GW2 you are not qualified to make a statement about the time needed, difficulty involved, or feasibility of such a feature.

You’re welcome to discuss the situation, and we appreciate that you want to do that. We welcome the conversation! But please participate by sharing what you’d like to see, and why, and don’t be misled by individual, external assumptions about the feasibility or practicality of such a request.

I actually do understand the difficulties this would create. But the issue at hand here is ANeT created something for a small percentage of the GW2 players. They ignored the rest and pandered to the few, who, as we see here and other posts about this, respond with pure venom to anyone suggesting anything that intrudes on their world.

I have played GW since GW1 beta and have never seen such elitism play out so blatantly. ANeT’s silence on the issue and refusal to address the 90% speaks in a much louder volume than anything else. All we see is us suggesting something and the players who have succeeded telling us to go learn to play better. It saddens me to see a two tier system created. The elites who have been successful even demanding payment to allow lesser skilled players success at the raids. Almost as bad as gold sellers. Not to mention locking new legendary armor behind the the raid. The question is “Why?”.

There’s nothing wrong with Anet releasing content gear toward a specific segment of the player population. Over 95% (guesstimate) of PvE in GW2 is relatively easy. There’s nothing inherently wrong about have some things in game for those that actually want a challenge.

There is also nothing inherently wrong with being more inclusive and flexible.

Please don’t add this. It will ruin the only bit of good content this game actually has.

Swagger.1459:

Ayrilana.1396:

Heibi.4251:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Ohoni.6057:

Here’s one reason: The developers have limited time and resources.

Yeah, we’ve covered this one. The time and resources it would take to implement something like this would be negligible, not remotely enough to counterbalance the benefits it would bring.

At this point, I need to interject. I am familiar with the process of changing to a multi-modality system of game presentation, having written about it long ago, when I was a journalist writing about another company and another game. For that game, too, players said “No big deal.” And they were absolutely wrong. They said, “Just tweak a few stats, lower a few spawns, and voila, you’ve got it!” No, that’s not how it worked. And that’s not how I think it would work for Guild Wars 2.

I will ask about this, and if we’re prepared to say something official, one of us will do so. But it’s counterproductive to have a discussion head down the path of misinformation and what seems to be a growing error in assumption. With all due respect, unless you’re a developer for GW2 you are not qualified to make a statement about the time needed, difficulty involved, or feasibility of such a feature.

You’re welcome to discuss the situation, and we appreciate that you want to do that. We welcome the conversation! But please participate by sharing what you’d like to see, and why, and don’t be misled by individual, external assumptions about the feasibility or practicality of such a request.

I actually do understand the difficulties this would create. But the issue at hand here is ANeT created something for a small percentage of the GW2 players. They ignored the rest and pandered to the few, who, as we see here and other posts about this, respond with pure venom to anyone suggesting anything that intrudes on their world.

I have played GW since GW1 beta and have never seen such elitism play out so blatantly. ANeT’s silence on the issue and refusal to address the 90% speaks in a much louder volume than anything else. All we see is us suggesting something and the players who have succeeded telling us to go learn to play better. It saddens me to see a two tier system created. The elites who have been successful even demanding payment to allow lesser skilled players success at the raids. Almost as bad as gold sellers. Not to mention locking new legendary armor behind the the raid. The question is “Why?”.

There’s nothing wrong with Anet releasing content gear toward a specific segment of the player population. Over 95% (guesstimate) of PvE in GW2 is relatively easy. There’s nothing inherently wrong about have some things in game for those that actually want a challenge.

There is also nothing inherently wrong with being more inclusive and flexible.

Which the vast majority of the game is.

Absurdo.8309:

Dungeons were hard when they first came out. People didn’t know what to do. But they learned, and dungeons became easy.

The same thing will happen to raids. Wing 1 is getting there. Wing 2 is hard right now because it’s new.

Learn the fight. It’s ok to have harder content in this game. Liadri was hard. Getting the pvp backpiece is hard. Raids are hard now. With practice, you can beat them. Don’t nerf something that is so new.

5 and 10 people content are very different things. Also, all content you mentioned is soloable (except for few scripted encounters), so you can do it with any group if you are good. Good luck trying this with raids.

Absurdo.8309:

Dungeons were hard when they first came out. People didn’t know what to do. But they learned, and dungeons became easy.

The same thing will happen to raids. Wing 1 is getting there. Wing 2 is hard right now because it’s new.

Well Dungeons were hard then not only because People didn’t know how to play the few Mechanics of the Bosses but much more important, they didn’t know how to play the Game at all. GW2 was new back then and People were still learning to play this Game at all and not putting in their Standard MMO Thinking into the Game.

When Raids were put in most Poeple knew what their Classes could do and they got used to the GW2 way of playing. So it is a bit difficult to compare the Situation back then and the Situation now.

But you are right overall. Everything is a Matter of Practice. And I think that most People here in the Community have the capability to beat the Raid with enoug Practice and a bit of Determination.

Ayrilana.1396:

Swagger.1459:

Ayrilana.1396:

Heibi.4251:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Ohoni.6057:

Here’s one reason: The developers have limited time and resources.

Yeah, we’ve covered this one. The time and resources it would take to implement something like this would be negligible, not remotely enough to counterbalance the benefits it would bring.

At this point, I need to interject. I am familiar with the process of changing to a multi-modality system of game presentation, having written about it long ago, when I was a journalist writing about another company and another game. For that game, too, players said “No big deal.” And they were absolutely wrong. They said, “Just tweak a few stats, lower a few spawns, and voila, you’ve got it!” No, that’s not how it worked. And that’s not how I think it would work for Guild Wars 2.

I will ask about this, and if we’re prepared to say something official, one of us will do so. But it’s counterproductive to have a discussion head down the path of misinformation and what seems to be a growing error in assumption. With all due respect, unless you’re a developer for GW2 you are not qualified to make a statement about the time needed, difficulty involved, or feasibility of such a feature.

You’re welcome to discuss the situation, and we appreciate that you want to do that. We welcome the conversation! But please participate by sharing what you’d like to see, and why, and don’t be misled by individual, external assumptions about the feasibility or practicality of such a request.

I actually do understand the difficulties this would create. But the issue at hand here is ANeT created something for a small percentage of the GW2 players. They ignored the rest and pandered to the few, who, as we see here and other posts about this, respond with pure venom to anyone suggesting anything that intrudes on their world.

I have played GW since GW1 beta and have never seen such elitism play out so blatantly. ANeT’s silence on the issue and refusal to address the 90% speaks in a much louder volume than anything else. All we see is us suggesting something and the players who have succeeded telling us to go learn to play better. It saddens me to see a two tier system created. The elites who have been successful even demanding payment to allow lesser skilled players success at the raids. Almost as bad as gold sellers. Not to mention locking new legendary armor behind the the raid. The question is “Why?”.

There’s nothing wrong with Anet releasing content gear toward a specific segment of the player population. Over 95% (guesstimate) of PvE in GW2 is relatively easy. There’s nothing inherently wrong about have some things in game for those that actually want a challenge.

There is also nothing inherently wrong with being more inclusive and flexible.

Which the vast majority of the game is.

And nothing of what I suggested takes away challenging raid content, it just makes it more approachable and offers players the ability to challenge themselves even more.

Listen, anet wants to make more money and that is done by being inclusive. The more a particular section of the game does well, the more development dollars will be spent on it.

Wouldn’t raiders like it if anet had 20 people working on raids instead of a handful? Of course they would, so offering better paths to approaching content for all skill levels to participate and enjoy is just good business.

Also, raids were very obviously rushed out the door so I guarantee the devs would have done things much differently given more time. Unfortunately, though, they are playing catchup now and we will just have to see how this content takes shape.

Raids are opt in content. I agree with the comments above — there’s plenty to do if you’re looking for easier gameplay.

Swagger.1459:

Also, raids were very obviously rushed out the door so I guarantee the devs would have done things much differently given more time. Unfortunately, though, they are playing catchup now and we will just have to see how this content takes shape.

I would disagree with this. To the contrary, the bosses seem very polished. What do you find rushed?

Ohoni.6057:

A better LFG system would also increase the number of raiders overnight without splitting the community into 2 parts.

I really don’t think it could. Maybe by a very small amount, but not nearly as much as actually releasing the easy mode. The problem isn’t finding groups, people can find groups easily enough. The problem is that once you have the group together, the raid itself is too hard.

It is doable with less than 10 man, so it is not too hard. You, or your squad, simply doesn’t have enough experience with the bosses or the mechanics so you have to practice more in order to kill it.
You just want everything thrown after you.

Swagger.1459:

Ayrilana.1396:

Swagger.1459:

Ayrilana.1396:

Heibi.4251:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Ohoni.6057:

Here’s one reason: The developers have limited time and resources.

Yeah, we’ve covered this one. The time and resources it would take to implement something like this would be negligible, not remotely enough to counterbalance the benefits it would bring.

At this point, I need to interject. I am familiar with the process of changing to a multi-modality system of game presentation, having written about it long ago, when I was a journalist writing about another company and another game. For that game, too, players said “No big deal.” And they were absolutely wrong. They said, “Just tweak a few stats, lower a few spawns, and voila, you’ve got it!” No, that’s not how it worked. And that’s not how I think it would work for Guild Wars 2.

I will ask about this, and if we’re prepared to say something official, one of us will do so. But it’s counterproductive to have a discussion head down the path of misinformation and what seems to be a growing error in assumption. With all due respect, unless you’re a developer for GW2 you are not qualified to make a statement about the time needed, difficulty involved, or feasibility of such a feature.

You’re welcome to discuss the situation, and we appreciate that you want to do that. We welcome the conversation! But please participate by sharing what you’d like to see, and why, and don’t be misled by individual, external assumptions about the feasibility or practicality of such a request.

I actually do understand the difficulties this would create. But the issue at hand here is ANeT created something for a small percentage of the GW2 players. They ignored the rest and pandered to the few, who, as we see here and other posts about this, respond with pure venom to anyone suggesting anything that intrudes on their world.

I have played GW since GW1 beta and have never seen such elitism play out so blatantly. ANeT’s silence on the issue and refusal to address the 90% speaks in a much louder volume than anything else. All we see is us suggesting something and the players who have succeeded telling us to go learn to play better. It saddens me to see a two tier system created. The elites who have been successful even demanding payment to allow lesser skilled players success at the raids. Almost as bad as gold sellers. Not to mention locking new legendary armor behind the the raid. The question is “Why?”.

There’s nothing wrong with Anet releasing content gear toward a specific segment of the player population. Over 95% (guesstimate) of PvE in GW2 is relatively easy. There’s nothing inherently wrong about have some things in game for those that actually want a challenge.

There is also nothing inherently wrong with being more inclusive and flexible.

Which the vast majority of the game is.

And nothing of what I suggested takes away challenging raid content, it just makes it more approachable and offers players the ability to challenge themselves even more.

Listen, anet wants to make more money and that is done by being inclusive. The more a particular section of the game does well, the more development dollars will be spent on it.

Wouldn’t raiders like it if anet had 20 people working on raids instead of a handful? Of course they would, so offering better paths to approaching content for all skill levels to participate and enjoy is just good business.

Also, raids were very obviously rushed out the door so I guarantee the devs would have done things much differently given more time. Unfortunately, though, they are playing catchup now and we will just have to see how this content takes shape.

Sure they can give players an easy modes except there should be significantly reduced rewards and no achievement progression. It was clearly stated that raids were designed for those wanting challenging content. It seems that there are those players who want everything gear to their existing skill level and don’t want to be challenged.

Absurdo.8309:

Raids are opt in content. I agree with the comments above — there’s plenty to do if you’re looking for easier gameplay.

Swagger.1459:

Also, raids were very obviously rushed out the door so I guarantee the devs would have done things much differently given more time. Unfortunately, though, they are playing catchup now and we will just have to see how this content takes shape.

I would disagree with this. To the contrary, the bosses seem very polished. What do you find rushed?

A raid consists of more than just bosses, but ok, bosses that are pieced into the game are polished.

We only had 1 wing at launch, not an entire raid.

Promises of legendary armors without even a preview. Still no preview either.

Lfg channel should have been created at launch, but still nonexistent.

Minor thing, but not even a full compliment of white mantle weapons.

So let’s put the above into perspective…

Imagine if the devs only had Verdant Brink available to play at HoT launch. Then 5 months later they release Auric Basin. Then a few months after that Tangled Depths is released… Then finally Dragon’s Stand. Now take each zone release tied to legendary weapon progress steps without even a preview of said legendary weapons.

WvW received a single map unnecessarily, not a full wvw update because the rest is not ready…

Certain ascended stats to complete full sets are still not available.

The devs piece “things” together more than any mmo I have experienced, and raids are not handled any different. They devs play catchup a lot here and should work on dropping in fully created and feature/qol rich content instead.

Ayrilana.1396:

Swagger.1459:

Ayrilana.1396:

Swagger.1459:

Ayrilana.1396:

Heibi.4251:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Ohoni.6057:

Here’s one reason: The developers have limited time and resources.

Yeah, we’ve covered this one. The time and resources it would take to implement something like this would be negligible, not remotely enough to counterbalance the benefits it would bring.

At this point, I need to interject. I am familiar with the process of changing to a multi-modality system of game presentation, having written about it long ago, when I was a journalist writing about another company and another game. For that game, too, players said “No big deal.” And they were absolutely wrong. They said, “Just tweak a few stats, lower a few spawns, and voila, you’ve got it!” No, that’s not how it worked. And that’s not how I think it would work for Guild Wars 2.

I will ask about this, and if we’re prepared to say something official, one of us will do so. But it’s counterproductive to have a discussion head down the path of misinformation and what seems to be a growing error in assumption. With all due respect, unless you’re a developer for GW2 you are not qualified to make a statement about the time needed, difficulty involved, or feasibility of such a feature.

You’re welcome to discuss the situation, and we appreciate that you want to do that. We welcome the conversation! But please participate by sharing what you’d like to see, and why, and don’t be misled by individual, external assumptions about the feasibility or practicality of such a request.

I actually do understand the difficulties this would create. But the issue at hand here is ANeT created something for a small percentage of the GW2 players. They ignored the rest and pandered to the few, who, as we see here and other posts about this, respond with pure venom to anyone suggesting anything that intrudes on their world.

I have played GW since GW1 beta and have never seen such elitism play out so blatantly. ANeT’s silence on the issue and refusal to address the 90% speaks in a much louder volume than anything else. All we see is us suggesting something and the players who have succeeded telling us to go learn to play better. It saddens me to see a two tier system created. The elites who have been successful even demanding payment to allow lesser skilled players success at the raids. Almost as bad as gold sellers. Not to mention locking new legendary armor behind the the raid. The question is “Why?”.

There’s nothing wrong with Anet releasing content gear toward a specific segment of the player population. Over 95% (guesstimate) of PvE in GW2 is relatively easy. There’s nothing inherently wrong about have some things in game for those that actually want a challenge.

There is also nothing inherently wrong with being more inclusive and flexible.

Which the vast majority of the game is.

And nothing of what I suggested takes away challenging raid content, it just makes it more approachable and offers players the ability to challenge themselves even more.

Listen, anet wants to make more money and that is done by being inclusive. The more a particular section of the game does well, the more development dollars will be spent on it.

Wouldn’t raiders like it if anet had 20 people working on raids instead of a handful? Of course they would, so offering better paths to approaching content for all skill levels to participate and enjoy is just good business.

Also, raids were very obviously rushed out the door so I guarantee the devs would have done things much differently given more time. Unfortunately, though, they are playing catchup now and we will just have to see how this content takes shape.

Sure they can give players an easy modes except there should be significantly reduced rewards and no achievement progression. It was clearly stated that raids were designed for those wanting challenging content. It seems that there are those players who want everything gear to their existing skill level and don’t want to be challenged.

I mentioned reward scaling to match difficulty.

There are some players who would take the path of least resistance, but difficulty settings also make this content more approachable and manageable for others, while offering a great skill challenge progression system for all as well.

The devs do not want to create rifts intentionally in their community, but that’s exactly what is happening and should be resolved.

I find the most difficult challenge in raids is organizing the party. Finding 10 people who know the fight and can play at the same time.

Yes, but that will ALWAYS be an issue with the current raids. With easy raids it’s less of an issue, because if even half the group knows more or less what to do they could carry less experienced players through the hard bits.

Personally I’d rather ANet pick one difficulty for raids, stick with it, and have multiple content streams (dungeons/fractals/raids and open world content) which cover the breadth of difficulties.

I don’t see any advantage to this. The problem is that then you have situations where a player doesn’t like the difficulty of the encounter, “well that encounter is not for him then,” but he DOES enjoy the theme, the basic combat mechanics, all the things other than the difficulty. And yes, you could just write that player off, but ideally if a player likes some things about a gameplay mode, there would be ways that he could also enjoy ALL of it.

Making content where you deliberately write off large numbers of players, when you have the option of including them, is just a waste of resources, because it will always take less development time to tweak one piece of content to suit multiple tastes, than to create completely unique content for each of those tastes.

It is doable with less than 10 man, so it is not too hard. You, or your squad, simply doesn’t have enough experience with the bosses or the mechanics so you have to practice more in order to kill it.

Yes, and that’s the point of this thread. We’d like to see optional versions that do not require that level of experience with the mechanics to complete it.

Sure they can give players an easy modes except there should be significantly reduced rewards and no achievement progression.

Obviously.

It seems that there are those players who want everything gear to their existing skill level and don’t want to be challenged.

Exactly.

Guys, you all know that Ohoni wants only one thing, the legendary armor.

Incorrect. I do want the legendary armor, I do not only want the legendary armor. I also want to be able to play and complete the raids themselves without the constant repetitive head-bashing.

Dungeons were hard when they first came out. People didn’t know what to do. But they learned, and dungeons became easy.

So you are saying that the raids are no more difficult to complete than the dungeons? That has not been my experience with them. I spent three hours trying to clear Gorseval last night and didn’t get even halfway through it. I don’t recall ever spending that long on a dungeon boss.

What they should do is have mini-raids. One mini-raid per major tactic in the raid that players would need to learn. Gives 1 shard. Does not drop any of the legendary armor items, that’s the reward for graduating to raids. But it does have like 5% of the raid drop rate chance to drop the other items.

No interest. You’re designing a system for no one. What would be the point of that?

But you are right overall. Everything is a Matter of Practice. And I think that most People here in the Community have the capability to beat the Raid with enoug Practice and a bit of Determination.

Not true, but close enough to being true to not bother arguing it. The real issue though is that a lot of players don’t HAVE that determination or WANT to practice it enough. That is not gameplay that they enjoy, and there is no reason why they should. If people like that, hard mode is there for them and they can continue to play it, but for those that do not enjoy that sort of experience at all, why not offer a mode that is more to their tastes? Just because you enjoy something does not mean that everyone else should have to do it too.

Ohoni.6057:

Not true, but close enough to being true to not bother arguing it. The real issue though is that a lot of players don’t HAVE that determination or WANT to practice it enough. That is not gameplay that they enjoy, and there is no reason why they should. If people like that, hard mode is there for them and they can continue to play it, but for those that do not enjoy that sort of experience at all, why not offer a mode that is more to their tastes? Just because you enjoy something does not mean that everyone else should have to do it too.

Because such modes already exist.

You have Open World, Dungeons, and Fractals. Please go use them instead of trying to alter the other parts of the game you have no interest in.

@Ohoni

Please add a posters name when you quote them. Thanks!

Ohoni.6057:

Guys, you all know that Ohoni wants only one thing, the legendary armor.

Incorrect. I do want the legendary armor, I do not only want the legendary armor. I also want to be able to play and complete the raids themselves without the constant repetitive head-bashing.

Dungeons were hard when they first came out. People didn’t know what to do. But they learned, and dungeons became easy.

So you are saying that the raids are no more difficult to complete than the dungeons? That has not been my experience with them. I spent three hours trying to clear Gorseval last night and didn’t get even halfway through it. I don’t recall ever spending that long on a dungeon boss.

What they should do is have mini-raids. One mini-raid per major tactic in the raid that players would need to learn. Gives 1 shard. Does not drop any of the legendary armor items, that’s the reward for graduating to raids. But it does have like 5% of the raid drop rate chance to drop the other items.

No interest. You’re designing a system for no one. What would be the point of that?

But you are right overall. Everything is a Matter of Practice. And I think that most People here in the Community have the capability to beat the Raid with enoug Practice and a bit of Determination.

Not true, but close enough to being true to not bother arguing it. The real issue though is that a lot of players don’t HAVE that determination or WANT to practice it enough. That is not gameplay that they enjoy, and there is no reason why they should. If people like that, hard mode is there for them and they can continue to play it, but for those that do not enjoy that sort of experience at all, why not offer a mode that is more to their tastes? Just because you enjoy something does not mean that everyone else should have to do it too.

I designed it for you. You want easier raids. It’s easier raids when there aren’t as many mechanics to worry about. It’s less frustrating when you can figure out the last boss without having to spend long time at the other bosses.

And it is something that both the casual players and the hard core players would benefit from.

Ohani,

You need to go out and find a guild that is successfully progressing through the raiding content. It is obvious that the only reason you are reaching this conclusion is due to the fact that you are running with people who can not handle their responsibilities. You would literally flip your opinion if you were more successful.

Now, this may mean you need to dedicate 6-9 hours a week to raiding, but if you really want this then you will have no issue doing that. This is how raiding works. As for pugging. You’re relying on faith that your fellow pugs have already put the time into the content that is being cleared. This is more than likely not true though since pugs are generally less successful than full teams who practice together.

My personal story? I bought this expansion about a month ago after taking a year long break. I blew through the HoT story/exploration in the matter of a few days. I discovered that raiding would require a team so I set out to find a raiding guild. I found one the next day and began progressing through SV. I cleared the first wing within two weeks of buying the expansion. Now were working on Matthais in the second wing. It’s really not that hard. Just do the work. What you are asking for is a lazy alternative to raiding. It’s simply lazy because you do not want to put the work in. You wipe to Gors maybe 5-6 times and say TOO HARD I’M OUT.

Avarice.2791:

Ohani,

You need to go out and find a guild that is successfully progressing through the raiding content. It is obvious that the only reason you are reaching this conclusion is due to the fact that you are running with people who can not handle their responsibilities. You would literally flip your opinion if you were more successful.

Now, this may mean you need to dedicate 6-9 hours a week to raiding, but if you really want this then you will have no issue doing that. This is how raiding works. As for pugging. You’re relying on faith that your fellow pugs have already put the time into the content that is being cleared. This is more than likely not true though since pugs are generally less successful than full teams who practice together.

Now that’s where you’re wrong avarice.
Ohoni just want the raid reward, he himself isn’t interested in raid (like someone could dislike fractal but still do it for ascended trinkets). Even he has said that he dislike how he has to repeat the fight from beginning when he failed, because he supposedly has cleared the earlier phase. So I suppose after he cleared the wing, he’d expect to just be able to “press F to gain shard” since he has won against the bosses before.

I’ve been experimenting with areas I don’t go to, so far I’ve solo’d 1 dungeon and 1 fractal, in my most recent dungeon, I decided to put up a LFG announcement saying I’m was playing solo anyone welcomed to join – it got filled up with a friendly group and we all enjoyed it – wen’t super fast actually. I was a total noob had no idea what to do! lol

it would be nice if i could jump into a raid like that, it tends to attract like minded people in my experience – I was doing the same with hps and champs at first, and people dropped in fast. otherwise, i’m really not interested in waiting around for a group to form.

Because such modes already exist.

You have Open World, Dungeons, and Fractals. Please go use them instead of trying to alter the other parts of the game you have no interest in.

Those are entirely different things. They are not the same as an easy mode version of THESE raids.

I designed it for you. You want easier raids. It’s easier raids when there aren’t as many mechanics to worry about. It’s less frustrating when you can figure out the last boss without having to spend long time at the other bosses.

Well, setting aside that I think it would take longer to implement than my suggestion, I still assert that what I want is to have the same complexity of the current fights, just with less penalty for failing them. A fight that only involves the first phase of the battle would not be satisfying to me.

You need to go out and find a guild that is successfully progressing through the raiding content. It is obvious that the only reason you are reaching this conclusion is due to the fact that you are running with people who can not handle their responsibilities. You would literally flip your opinion if you were more successful.

To a point, but not really. I mean, you’re basically talking about having people carry me, and I don’t particularly want to be carried. I want to carry my own weight in the encounter, I just don’t want the encounter to expect me to carry more weight than I’m able, does that make sense to you?

Now, this may mean you need to dedicate 6-9 hours a week to raiding, but if you really want this then you will have no issue doing that.

That would definitely be an issue to me. I definitely do not want to spend remotely that long raiding. I want to be able to clear the raid weekly in under three hours, ideally in under an hour. If you believe that is an unreasonable expectation for the current raid difficulty, then I would agree, hence the suggestion for a less difficult version.

I found one the next day and began progressing through SV. I cleared the first wing within two weeks of buying the expansion. Now were working on Matthais in the second wing. It’s really not that hard. Just do the work.

Learning that what works for you may not apply to everyone else in the world is one of the first steps of maturity.

Even he has said that he dislike how he has to repeat the fight from beginning when he failed, because he supposedly has cleared the earlier phase. So I suppose after he cleared the wing, he’d expect to just be able to “press F to gain shard” since he has won against the bosses before.

That’s not really the point I was making. I used the jumping puzzle analogy. I don’t mind restarting the jumping puzzle from the beginning each time I want to complete it, but I don’t like missing a jump in the middle and that forcing me to restart it without having completed it. I would fully expect to have to re-clear the raid each time I wanted to collect a new reward, I just don’t like a failure in phase three of a boss fight to reset progress all the way back to the beginning of the fight, when I’ve already got that part down.

Ohoni.6057:

Those are entirely different things. They are not the same as an easy mode version of THESE raids.

Yes, they are different and yet they are the same. They are PvE area’s of the game that are geared and catered to the casual play your seeking.

Raids are not that, making them that is an affront to the hard work the Raid team put in.

Ohoni.6057:

I designed it for you. You want easier raids. It’s easier raids when there aren’t as many mechanics to worry about. It’s less frustrating when you can figure out the last boss without having to spend long time at the other bosses.

Well, setting aside that I think it would take longer to implement than my suggestion, I still assert that what I want is to have the same complexity of the current fights, just with less penalty for failing them. A fight that only involves the first phase of the battle would not be satisfying to me.

Yes, it would take longer to create.

I’d rather they take the time and design the best possible easy mode, than come up with something quick.

One mini-raid would have the mechanic for fight 1. Another would have the mechanic for fight 2. Etc. They can be toned down, they’re mini-raids. And the lock out would be specific to each mini-raid OR the maximum rewards you’d get from The Raid.

So someone learning it could do Mini-Raid 1 enough times until they learn that mechanic. And Mini-Raid 5 enough times until they learn it after being in the Raid and finding Fight 1 and Fight 5 to be the most difficult. Without having to do Fights 2-4 over and over and over again.

But it would also be something that hard core groups could use when testing new builds when new skills are released or balance patches are released.. Or raid guilds could use as part of the application process without having to dedicate several hours to. When the skills added or balanced would only affect the final fight.

And small guild of casual players who only play for a short period of time each day can do the raid in small little bites with the mini-raids, even if at less difficulty.

Miellyn.6847:

If you only want to experience the content you don’t need the loot.
If you need the loot as an incentive to do that content you don’t want to experience it.

I agree.

As such, all rewards should be removed from raids. That way, only the people that truly want to raid, will raid.

@Ohoni

I’m not talking about being carried. I’m talking about joining a group of similar skill and growing together.

It’s pretty simple. If you want to raid you need to dedicate at least 1-2 nights for a 3 hour raid sesh. It’s really not that bad and this is how you progress in raids. There’s no alternative. You put in the work or no reward.

Gene Archer.8560:

I agree.

As such, all rewards should be removed from raids. That way, only the people that truly want to raid, will raid.

I want recognition for the time I’ve put into raiding. That is awful logic. I don’t want people who put in no work to have recognition. The entire point of raiding is the reward. You don’t put in hard work for nothing. This is the trade-off between casual and hardcore. GW2 needs to cater to both.

Gene Archer.8560:

Miellyn.6847:

If you only want to experience the content you don’t need the loot.
If you need the loot as an incentive to do that content you don’t want to experience it.

I agree.

As such, all rewards should be removed from raids. That way, only the people that truly want to raid, will raid.

Remove rewards from all content. That way, only the people that truly want to do content, will do it.

Avarice.2791:

The entire point of raiding is the reward.

As Miellyn said:

Miellyn.6847:

If you only want to experience the content you don’t need the loot.
If you need the loot as an incentive to do that content you don’t want to experience it.

Take it up with them, it’s their words, not mine. I simply agree with those words and find them to be perfectly logical. As such, it only makes sense to remove rewards from raids.

If the only reason you’re doing raids is for the reward, then you clearly only want the reward and don’t care about the content, much the same as a lot of people here accuse Ohoni of. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

Ayrilana.1396:

Remove rewards from all content. That way, only the people that truly want to do content, will do it.

Absolutely correct. Agreed.

Yes, they are different and yet they are the same. They are PvE area’s of the game that are geared and catered to the casual play your seeking.

But they are different in ways that make them unsuitable solutions to this problem.

Raids are not that, making them that is an affront to the hard work the Raid team put in.

Nobody’s talking about changing raids, the existing raids would stay intact and all the devs’ hard work would be fully represented. This would just be an alternative for those players who will NEVER enjoy the versions currently available because of the difficulty involved. This would be a new option so that those player could appreciate the work those developers put in, rather than just ignoring it completely.

I’m not talking about being carried. I’m talking about joining a group of similar skill and growing together.

That’s an experience that I have zero interest in. That is not how I want to play. I play GW2 to get away from games that incentivize such things.

It’s pretty simple. If you want to raid you need to dedicate at least 1-2 nights for a 3 hour raid sesh.

This is currently true, and sounds truly awful to me. I have zero interest in doing that, which is why I have been suggesting they make an alternate form that would not require this sort of experience.

Ayrilana.1396:

Remove rewards from all content. That way, only the people that truly want to do content, will do it.

Hey let’s remove the rewards from everything. Let’s see how many people still play this game. /facepalm

That’s literally as ridiculous as telling someone to go play this game in all white gear. How long is it going to take for people to realize MMO’s are entirely about rewards and time. You do something for bragging rights. It is literally a community. This isn’t simply a RPG where you play through the content.

@Ohana

Let’s create this scenario. So, to get Twilight you can either do it the normal way. This way is viewed as extremely time consuming and it takes a lot of effort, commitment, and work.

Alternatively, you can run an easy meta event 10 times and get the same reward. Pretty much AFK to auto-loot. There’s no differential in the reward from the above scenario.

What path will you choose? This path of logic is absolutely absurd.

Hey let’s remove the rewards from everything. Let’s see how many people still play this game. /facepalm

That’s literally as ridiculous as telling someone to go play this game in all white gear. How long is it going to take for people to realize MMO’s are entirely about rewards and time. You do something for bragging rights. It is literally a community. This isn’t simply a RPG where you play through the content.

And yet several people in this thread have said that if there is an easy mode raid, it should not offer any rewards. . .

Let’s create this scenario. So, to get Twilight you can either do it the normal way. This way is viewed as extremely time consuming and it takes a lot of effort, commitment, and work.

Alternatively, you can run an easy meta event 10 times and get the same reward. Pretty much AFK to auto-loot. There’s no differential in the reward from the above scenario.

What path will you choose? This path of logic is absolutely absurd.

Yes, that’s why they call it “Reductio ad absurdum” when people do that sort of thing.

See, the problem with your analogy though is that you exaggerate every possible element to extremes that nobody is asking for, merely to make the underlying premise seem ridiculous. It fails because you fail to use truly equivalent elements.

For one thing, nobody is talking about being able to run 10 easy mode raids to gain the ultimate raiding reward. Every proposal has involved a lower loot payout. In my proposal, you would have to run the easy mode at least three times (taking at minimum three weeks, mind you), to get the equivalent of one run of the hard mode raid, and that’s not counting the pity-shards for failures, which easy mode would not offer.

So yes, easy mode would be the easier path, but also FAR more time consuming. Even assuming both started at the same time (and it’s already too late for that), if it took ten weeks worth of hard mode raiding to get a major reward, it would take seven months to get that same reward via easy mode. and since hard mode people could fit in a round of easy mode as a quick warm-up if they like, that would shave a couple weeks off their own times.

So basically do you take the easier, but much longer path, or do you take the steeper, but much shorter path? It’s entirely up to you, but it’s fair either way.

Avarice.2791:

Ayrilana.1396:

Remove rewards from all content. That way, only the people that truly want to do content, will do it.

Hey let’s remove the rewards from everything. Let’s see how many people still play this game. /facepalm

That’s literally as ridiculous as telling someone to go play this game in all white gear. How long is it going to take for people to realize MMO’s are entirely about rewards and time. You do something for bragging rights. It is literally a community. This isn’t simply a RPG where you play through the content.

I wasn’t actually being serious when I said it. Someone was using that argument against raids so I just responded back by applying to everything. So yes, it’s ridiculous.

@Ohana

So, you don’t want the rewards. You don’t care for putting in the time and work that is required for raiding. You simply wish to zerg down each boss in a boring fashion to see the environmental views?

You’re one in a million my friend. Here’s what I would suggest. Put some more time into this game. Maximize yourself in fractal/dungeon environments. Max out your masteries. Put some work in sPvP with a real team practicing real strats and builds. Challenge yourself in other places. Once you do this you will find that things such as raids are ridiculously easy.

Raiding is not for the new player. It’s not for the player who has put 100 hours into this game. GW2 Is literally catering to the dedicated player who has put over 1000 hours and actually knows a thing or two about optimization and theorycrafting. You don’t even have to really do that! Other people have literally done the work for you!

Then, once you have mastered all aspects of this game BELOW raiding, perhaps it will be time to move on to that. First, you must practice. What you’re doing is essentially throwing someone completely oblivious to FPS games into CoD: MW1 and expecting them to instantly conquer veteran difficulty. Nope, doesn’t work like that. You need to work up to that.

Raiding will be around forever. Simply work up to it first.

Ohoni.6057:

But they are different in ways that make them unsuitable solutions to this problem.

Nobody’s talking about changing raids, the existing raids would stay intact and all the devs’ hard work would be fully represented. This would just be an alternative for those players who will NEVER enjoy the versions currently available because of the difficulty involved. This would be a new option so that those player could appreciate the work those developers put in, rather than just ignoring it completely.

What problem is that, because the reasons you’ve come up with are all personal problems and not a core gameplay problem ?

Except you are changing the work they put in. By asking for and potentially getting an easy mode, you are making them not only change their basis for designing the raid but having them put in even more work to appeal to two distinctly different crowds. This is an affront to them, it’s like going to a high quality steak place and asking for dog food.

Raiding is not for the new player. It’s not for the player who has put 100 hours into this game. GW2 Is literally catering to the dedicated player who has put over 1000 hours and actually knows a thing or two about optimization and theorycrafting. You don’t even have to really do that! Other people have literally done the work for you!

I’ve put in 1000 hours on my main alone, another 2000 between my alts. I’ve got world completion, completed all the story chapters from launch to now, with achievements, completed each Fractal map at least once (though only low level versions because Fractal grinding does not appeal to me), I’ve beat Holo-Scarlet several times, the marionette, the Queen’s Pavilion metas in both variations, Vinewrath, T6 Drytop dozens of times, I have all the HoT masteries aside from the last Nuhoc one, I have 12 characters, all but one of them with fully mastered elites, have gotten as far as sapphire in both PvP seasons (probably ruby this time).

I’ve put in plenty of time in this game, I just know what activities I enjoy, and what activities I don’t, and the way the raids currently are, I do not and never will enjoy that sort of experience, no matter how much time I put into it. I know for an absolute fact that the sort of grind you speak of in loving tones is not the sort of gameplay that I will ever come to enjoy. And that’s ok, people are different. I accept that you enjoy something that I never would, all I’m asking is that you accept that I will never enjoy that activity that you love so much, but that there are other things that I very much do enjoy.

What problem is that, because the reasons you’ve come up with are all personal problems and not a core gameplay problem ?

By that standard nothing in the game is a “core gameplay problem.” Everything is just a “personal problem” that a certain number of people share. I’m saying that there are a lot of people out there right now who do not raid, and will never raid to any serious degree, but that if they released an easy mode raid similar to my proposal, these players would participate in that, and would enjoy the time they spend doing so. Depending on how much time it would take to implement, it is my assertion that it would be a good use of their time to make those players happy, and it would cost the people currently raiding nothing at all.

Except you are changing the work they put in. By asking for and potentially getting an easy mode, you are making them not only change their basis for designing the raid but having them put in even more work to appeal to two distinctly different crowds.

Again, the teams making the hard raid should not be significantly impacted. They will continue to design hard raids for hard people. If making an easy mode does take more than a few hours of work, it should come from people outside that team, and it would be well worth it for the tens of thousands of hours of joy that it would bring to the game’s players.

This is an affront to them, it’s like going to a high quality steak place and asking for dog food.

No, it’s like going into a steakhouse and asking for fish, because you don’t eat red meat. Which is why pretty much any steakhouse does have fish on the menu, and it’s usually pretty good too.

So, you’ve put 3k+ hours into this game. Instead of sitting on these forums wasting your time with ideas that will never happen for reasons you do not comprehend, why don’t you… oh I don’t know… find a raiding guild?

I’ve had HoT for almost a month now. I found a raiding guild at the end of the first week. The following week we cleared the first wing. Now salvation is out and my raid team is progressing to the last phase of Matthais. It’s really not that difficult. Go find a raid team of similar skill. I’ve only put about 800 hours into this time dump of a game.