Guild Wars 2

Nikaido.3457:

Zenith.7301:

and unlike in your video where we saw a minimal spawn of spiders, the spawn rate for us easily had us dealing with 2-3 groups of them, when wall was down.

We did the run twice in a row, and it’s a post-patch video, not before the supposed dramatic change for this boss. We didn’t see any randomness involved in the spawn rate. We were overran by spiders every time the boss died, reflect went down and had to run out of the room before leaving the dungeon to avoid a quick death.

You might think the spawn rate is different but the fact is that the boss dies quickly enough for their spawn rate to not matter much.

This isn’t even a boss that discriminates against people who aren’t in zerk gear all that much, because he doesn’t.. take critical hits… so while there may be some difference in damage between our group and any random pugger in terms of base damage boost traits, overall, it’s NOT a massive DPS difference, and even in a group with 5 people wearing full PVT you should get this boss down in no more than a minute or two minutes at MOST as long as you melee this and cycle reflect.

This is one of the few bosses in this game that doesn’t discriminate half as much between zerk and other type of gear in terms of how much damage he takes so all the whining about how impossible that fight is.. ? sigh.
And the only class that doesn’t have any reflect/projectile absorb to share/cycle with the rest of party members is.. warrior. (necro too maybe? I don’t know a lot about necro) So any mixed group with : rangers, thieves, elementalists, guardians, ele, whatever should do fine. Smoke screen is down? Time for whirling defense. Whirling def is down? Time for swirling winds. Etc. If you don’t cycle skills and have some communication in your party.. well, explorable dungeons were not made for people who don’t communicate.

And they aren’t made for kittens who don’t adapt their utility bar for the fight too. Your guardian is not.. running shield of the avenger ? mesmer.. doesn’t run focus? it’s time for a kick.

Telling some people who normally stick to wvw, and whom you have to drag by the hair to even touch pve, what weapons to bring and what traits to use is a pretty good way of finding yourself PuGing more often. Yes, I’ll likely run more efficient groups with a PuG, but these are people whose company I ENJOY. And I want them to stop dismissing PvE so I have to get them to do it in the first place.

Warrior GS/rifle doesn’t compare to a competent warrior using axe/mace for the sustained damage.

Necro has no reflects, btw. The ranger can bring whirling defense, but then his damage drops to negligible levels, is a 5 sec reflect on a 25 sec cd. No reflects from other classes besides perhaps thief is even close to on par with the reflection uptime of guardians or mesmers. Any other class combo, and you’ll have downtime on that reflection much more, while having less DPS to boot.

It was a learning experience for them. Maybe PvE won’t seem so “easy” to them now.

Zenith.7301:

Telling some people who normally stick to wvw, and whom you have to drag by the hair to even touch pve, what weapons to bring and what traits to use is a pretty good way of finding yourself PuGing more often. Yes, I’ll likely run more efficient groups with a PuG, but these are people whose company I ENJOY. And I want them to stop dismissing PvE so I have to get them to do it in the first place.

Why would they refuse to change weapons or traits? That’s like going into WvW with my DPS dungeon build and then complaining I get destroyed in a zerg…

Zenith.7301:

Necro has no reflects, btw. The ranger can bring whirling defense, but then his damage drops to negligible levels, is a 5 sec reflect on a 25 sec cd. No reflects from other classes besides perhaps thief is even close to on par with the reflection uptime of guardians or mesmers. Any other class combo, and you’ll have downtime on that reflection much more, while having less DPS to boot.

5 seconds reflect on 25 sec cooldown = 20% reflect uptime.

Feedback (untraited) is 6 seconds on 40s cooldown = 15% uptime.

Traited it’s 8s on 32s which is a 25% uptime.

Guardian is more OP with 25% untraited and 34% uptime when traited on Wall of Reflection. And it also has Shield of Absorption, which will give you another 4s of safety on 40s cooldown, or 10% uptime.

Smoke screen is 7s on 30s = 23% uptime

Ele staff earth 3 = 5s on 30s = 16% uptime, but you’d be better off with Swirling winds, which is 6s on 30s = 20% uptime.

So, since your team was 2 ele, a guardian and a mesmer, you could effectively go for 90% reflection/destruction uptime without even traiting for it or using Shield of the Avenger, and I’m not even counting the fact that you could use Focus 4 on a mesmer, or Focus 5 to reflect as well (since you need to trait for that). If you traited for it (not using Shield of the Avenger) you’d have 104% reflect uptime, not counting mesmer’s extra stuff… You probably had one the safest group combo possible to do that fight, and the only reason you couldn’t do it is because your friends didn’t want to retrait/change their UTILITY skills, you know, those things that you change when they situation occurs?

I’m sorry, but I don’t believe how bad some of the playerbase of this game is. I mean, I complain about some things in the game, but at least I don’t complain about fights being too hard when I didn’t even kittening change my skills or traits to accommodate for it.

Ah good, melee still works. Just a bit kitten for pugs though. I dont really agree on the whole make a boss difficult but countered by reflects and projectile absorption though. It alienates the other classes even further. Would like some mechanics which dont rely on the same thing over and over again which only a few classes have good access to.

spoj.9672:

Ah good, melee still works. Just a bit kitten for pugs though. I dont really agree on the whole make a boss difficult but countered by reflects and projectile absorption though. It alienates the other classes even further. Would like some mechanics which dont rely on the same thing over and over again which only a few classes have good access to.

If you had read the numbers in my above post, you would have seen that the classes are about equal in base reflects. Mesmer can trait for having a lot more reflects, but it’s just that between a mesmer and a guardian, you can have pretty much enough reflect uptime.

The only class that doesn’t have access to reflect is necro, but they have 2 healthbars and the highest base health in game, so they’re kind of OP in a sense. Their damage is just bad.

With most random party setups you can easily achieve 60-80% reflect uptime, it’s just that people are too dumb or don’t bother chaining it.

Bright.9160:

spoj.9672:

Ah good, melee still works. Just a bit kitten for pugs though. I dont really agree on the whole make a boss difficult but countered by reflects and projectile absorption though. It alienates the other classes even further. Would like some mechanics which dont rely on the same thing over and over again which only a few classes have good access to.

If you had read the numbers in my above post, you would have seen that the classes are about equal in base reflects. Mesmer can trait for having a lot more reflects, but it’s just that between a mesmer and a guardian, you can have pretty much enough reflect uptime.

The only class that doesn’t have access to reflect is necro, but they have 2 healthbars and the highest base health in game, so they’re kind of OP in a sense. Their damage is just bad.

With most random party setups you can easily achieve 60-80% reflect uptime, it’s just that people are too dumb or don’t bother chaining it.

I did read your post. Doesnt change that reflects for mechanics is getting stale and stupid. Mesmer and guard have much better access to them than other classes even though they can get some form of it. I want something different. Reflecting damage is stupidly op, yeah its fun seeing those huge numbers but having almost every boss in the game made easier by having reflects is kittened. I want some new mechanics with a bit more creativity.

As for necro’s, the two health bars doesnt really help much in any dungeon viable build as they just get squished so fast its ridiculous. An extra health bar is not as effective as invuln or extra dodges. You cant absorb multiple hit aoes with DS because 1 hit removes all your lifeforce and then the next hit kills you. Only way having that second health bar helps more than other classes damage avoidance abilities, is by using PVT gear which really isnt a good choice for dungeons. Especially when you should be doing damage. DS can be used for absorbing single hit abilities and holding on for a few seconds more while you wait for your pathetic heal skill to come off cooldown. Overall its a class mechanic that doesnt work nearly aswell as it does on paper.

I’ve never, ever been able to convince a PUG to melee the tree, not even the easy as kitten turret or oakheart versions.

Broadicea.8294:

I’ve never, ever been able to convince a PUG to melee the tree, not even the easy as kitten turret or oakheart versions.

Going melee with a wrong team will cause a miserable fail, I’m afraid.
I usually run all 3 TA paths with 4 berserk warriors + 1 guard, and we melee everything, all final bosses take around 1 minute or less to kill with this setup.

The other day I had 3 Thieves (one was underleveled, and condition damage I guess) and a warrior + my guard, and we ran our of projectile protection while boss had still 20% HP left, and then we were flooded with spiders. So if you lack the DPS, melee is risky. Can’t be bothered to do it ranged, so long and annoying.

Nikaido.3457:

I deliberately fooled around in my video to prove a point (I even joined this TA run solely for the sake of parading against all this “the boss became impossible!” nonsense.)

Wow Nik, aren’t you a nice and helpful guild member.

All this dungeon does is further cement my lack of faith in pugs. T_T

Nikaido.3457:

And they aren’t made for kittens who don’t adapt their utility bar for the fight too. Your guardian is not.. running shield of the avenger ? mesmer.. doesn’t run focus? it’s time for a kick.

Preparing for a fight by changing weapons, skills or traits? What an elitist kitten habit! We don’t need it! This is a casual game, you are supposed to wipe 10 times and waste 30 minutes for this boss!

Jokes aside, examples from this thread prove that a significant portion of the playerbase is unable to execute effective strategies even under perfect circumstances.

Nikaido.3457:

Razzy.2741:

Broadicea.8294:

I’ve never, ever been able to convince a PUG to melee the tree, not even the easy as kitten turret or oakheart versions.

Going melee with a wrong team will cause a miserable fail, I’m afraid.
I usually run all 3 TA paths with 4 berserk warriors + 1 guard, and we melee everything, all final bosses take around 1 minute or less to kill with this setup.

The other day I had 3 Thieves (one was underleveled, and condition damage I guess) and a warrior + my guard, and we ran our of projectile protection while boss had still 20% HP left, and then we were flooded with spiders. So if you lack the DPS, melee is risky. Can’t be bothered to do it ranged, so long and annoying.

Do you even realize what you are saying ? You “ran out of projectile protection” in a group that CAN’T run out of projectile protection. With all three thieves picking up smoke screen, and the guard picking up shield of the avenger and wall of reflection, it’s literally impossible to run out of it. Cast each smoke screen once the previous one is 2 seconds from going down, then guard wall, then shield, and you can repeat this cycle for eternity.

You also lacked dps in a group that shouldn’t have lacked dps. I deliberately fooled around in my video to prove a point (I even joined this TA run solely for the sake of parading against all this “the boss became impossible!” nonsense.), was moving in and out of reflection (there is no need to move around that much in there, just stack inside the wall and stuff. For anyone wearing scholar rune losing HP means losing deeeeeeps.) and was running a war build that requires a specific guard build to accompany it to be efficient (no gs! less might stacking.) with a guard who didn’t run it yet. We had almost no might stacking going on and I wasn’t using GS to stack might on myself either, and I wasted a utility slot on banner of discipline rather than taking a much more useful utility like signet of might because you can’t crit damage on that boss so anything could be better than banner of discipline for the purpose of THAT fight. I actually cast a 100% useless banner here.
Thieves have inherently better single target dps than warriors, what makes them worse and less interesting to stack in a group is that they don’t bring perma fury (which is USELESS against a boss that won’t take crit!) and need combo fields for might stack. If a 2 warrior, 1 ele, 1 guard, 1 mes group can destroy that boss in 40 seconds with sub-optimal play how in the hell can 3 thieves, 1 guard, 1 war fail this? whatever disadvantages thieves might have for speedclearing (no perma fury for the group, lesser access to offensive boons, bad cleaving damage since it only has sword and it’s meh) are completely negated against this particular boss where you : have no use for fury, no use for cleaving, no use for anything but single target dps and it’s a boss that doesn’t even need full might stacks to bring down in under 40 sec.

Basically, trololololooooooo.

Very pro comment of you, much appreciated. Now I’m like all blushing and feeling like bowing down to you. Really.

Now to go back to my first line, “Going melee with a wrong team will cause a miserable fail, I’m afraid”, where wrong team also applies to players who aren’t familiar with the final boss/dungeon at all. There is a little bit of a difference between regular speed clear group and a random group put together consisting of three random Thieves.

Oh, and I’m yet to see a thief, that can outdps Warrior. I hear the legends all the time, and honestly, I get bored with that junk talk. Never ever seen a single Thief in dungeon that would be even a tiny bit more useful than a Warrior.

Nikaido.3457:

It’s your responsibility to tell them what to do if they don’t already know. Some players lack the curiosity and need to be told. If the one who knows doesn’t tell them, who’s going to? To get this run to go decently all you had to do is tell them to equip smoke screen and get some order as to who uses absorb first. If as a guardian you couldn’t get it to go decently it’s also a fail on your part here.

Here’s how it went the first time I tried to explain to a PUG how to properly do the Malrona fight:

Me: blah blah lengthy explanation of the poison damage multiplier and how we need to not clear the conditions and then cycle feedback from me (on my mesmer) and walls from guardian if we don’t get her down in one time warp
Captain Pugtastic: “we don’t need to do any of what you just said. just range and we’ll kill her eventually”

So yeah, dragging a PUG along doesn’t always go so smoothly as it seems to do for you.

Bright.9160:

Zenith.7301:

Telling some people who normally stick to wvw, and whom you have to drag by the hair to even touch pve, what weapons to bring and what traits to use is a pretty good way of finding yourself PuGing more often. Yes, I’ll likely run more efficient groups with a PuG, but these are people whose company I ENJOY. And I want them to stop dismissing PvE so I have to get them to do it in the first place.

Why would they refuse to change weapons or traits? That’s like going into WvW with my DPS dungeon build and then complaining I get destroyed in a zerg…

Zenith.7301:

Necro has no reflects, btw. The ranger can bring whirling defense, but then his damage drops to negligible levels, is a 5 sec reflect on a 25 sec cd. No reflects from other classes besides perhaps thief is even close to on par with the reflection uptime of guardians or mesmers. Any other class combo, and you’ll have downtime on that reflection much more, while having less DPS to boot.

5 seconds reflect on 25 sec cooldown = 20% reflect uptime.

Feedback (untraited) is 6 seconds on 40s cooldown = 15% uptime.

Traited it’s 8s on 32s which is a 25% uptime.

Guardian is more OP with 25% untraited and 34% uptime when traited on Wall of Reflection. And it also has Shield of Absorption, which will give you another 4s of safety on 40s cooldown, or 10% uptime.

Smoke screen is 7s on 30s = 23% uptime

Ele staff earth 3 = 5s on 30s = 16% uptime, but you’d be better off with Swirling winds, which is 6s on 30s = 20% uptime.

So, since your team was 2 ele, a guardian and a mesmer, you could effectively go for 90% reflection/destruction uptime without even traiting for it or using Shield of the Avenger, and I’m not even counting the fact that you could use Focus 4 on a mesmer, or Focus 5 to reflect as well (since you need to trait for that). If you traited for it (not using Shield of the Avenger) you’d have 104% reflect uptime, not counting mesmer’s extra stuff… You probably had one the safest group combo possible to do that fight, and the only reason you couldn’t do it is because your friends didn’t want to retrait/change their UTILITY skills, you know, those things that you change when they situation occurs?

I’m sorry, but I don’t believe how bad some of the playerbase of this game is. I mean, I complain about some things in the game, but at least I don’t complain about fights being too hard when I didn’t even kittening change my skills or traits to accommodate for it.

A percentage is meaningless. If you can kill the boss in 45 seconds in melee, the classes with the longest reflection win out. A mesmer is 6 seconds, throw in warden, and guardian spirit shield isn’t just 4 seconds of protection. The spirit shield trigger like every 1-2 seconds for those 4 seconds of protection, which is actually much longer.

It’s a learning experience for them because they might have to adjust their play and reconsider how they approach PvE.

Let me ask you, did anyone ever tell you how to play? Or, did you figure things out through personal experience?

The other elementalist and I carried them, but in the end they got their dungeon daily achievement done and got some tokens.

And if you’re grabbing this as some sort of wish for things to be nerfed, I think you missed my replies earlier where I said I thought the change added some depth, but in a mistaken way.

Reflection trivializes encounters anyways as it did with Lupicus. I prefer games where you are forced to constantly reposition instead of plopping a chain of skills that completely gut the encounter’s threat while you tunnel damage into an HP sack.

The whole point of adding adds and secondary mechanics to encounters is so you have to divert attention and resources to different tasks. And the way this game
s pve is designed, with a few broken classes you can simply remove those mechanics. Imagine a class in a WoW raid that completely took out the threat of an important ability or mechanic in a fight. I don’t like it.

I also don’t like mechanics that punish melee just because, don’t get me wrong. The ascalonian general with fiery sword or archdiviner can get a bit dumb sometimes with few tells — but by and large classes should be balancing their approach to encounters with different tools. And that’s not happening outside reflection. The most damage always wins out because there are no other mechanics and supportive/tanking classes are not necessary, and in fact they hinder the group while not surviving any better.

cbabd.8053:

The spawns weren’t infinite, before — they would eventually stop. Has this changed, too?

They were infinite, they just respawned in positions where you could no longer aggro them as long as you didn’t use AoEs. I guess the current method IS the “proper” way to do it.

While I have zero respect for elitists I have to agree that the spider tree is not particularly hard. Actually in all the pugs I’ve run, we’ve never had to run any abnormal levels of reflect (or any reflect) or melee it (which pugs won’t do). I’m sure it helps but it frankly just doesn’t matter. Even in the worst runs the spiders seem to run out eventually so I’m not entirely convinced that it is infinite in the first place.

The problem I see is that there’s a bit of a myth out there that spider spawns or aggro can be avoided somehow. Groups don’t wipe from fighting spiders, they wipe from trying to avoid fighting spiders. If you just bring a pile of AoE and roast all the spiders, even quite bad pugs will have a good (in my case, perfect) success rate.

Nikaido.3457:

snip

I usually do just bounce when I catch the whiff of an awful group that is unsalvageable. Most dungeons thankfully have a tell pretty early that will clue you in. The first run/vine room in TA, spider queen for AC, icebrood hallway and first Alpha in COE, etc etc. Usually if I’m in a pug that struggles early I do try to suggest how to fix what they’re doing wrong, and if I get resistance I just dip out cause of course it’s easier to just find another group or start my own so I can kick idiots out. Sometimes though, the true colors of the pug don’t come through until we’re already halfway through the run and by then I would just rather get it over with than spend the extra 10-15 minutes to assemble another group (especially with the less popular dungeons like TA) and do it again with potentially the same results.

Basically I think the lack of dungeon popularity holds a lot of us hostage, forcing us to play with crappier pugs than we’d like if we want to get things done in any reasonable time (time spent grouping up as well as doing the run). That’s less the case for stuff like CoE, CoF, or even AC. But if I’m doing one of the others, especially at off-peak hours, I sometimes have to take what I can get.

Jackums.3496:

The few times I’ve attempted F/U since the changes, the tree has been surrounded by silvers which respawn almost immediately after death, and in the video, there were seemingly none and there certainly weren’t ten of them swarming from all angles.

Maybe it’s random, but the ego stroking and elitist circle-jerking going on in this topic is hardly warranted considering that video isn’t an accurate depiction.

The thing they did right, and you did wrong was the fact that they rushed the tree from the start, when there weren’t any spiders yet. He doesn’t immediately start spawning them. If you know his animations, and you pay attention to the video, you’ll see the team chops away a good 20% of the tree’s health before he starts spawning spiders. And if you had read Nikaido’s comments, you’ll see he said that the room was overrun with them, and they had to leave the room ASAP once the tree was dead, because otherwise they would’ve died.

Jackums.3496:

I ran TA 60 times in the span of two weeks not that long ago and did F/U about a third of those times, and the spiders always came in waves and then stopped spawning after a certain point. Today I ran F/U with a perfectly good group and when we got to the tree, we initially tried to range it, of course. The problem was that silvers kept spawning on top of us endlessly, which never used to happen. This kept up for about ten minutes, then someone in the group checked online if the path had been changed and found a video (probably the one posted in this thread) where people just rushed the tree and kept reflects up. I had Feedback and a reflect-traited focus, and there were two Guardians with reflect skills on my team, also. Then there were the zerker Warriors.

The moment we even got within melee range of the tree, there were what looked like about ten silvers right on top of us. It was ridiculous. I have no idea how people pulled off what they did in that video, but it’s hardly an accurate depiction of the fight. The few times I’ve attempted F/U since the changes, the tree has been surrounded by silvers which respawn almost immediately after death, and in the video, there were seemingly none and there certainly weren’t ten of them swarming from all angles.

Maybe it’s random, but the ego stroking and elitist circle-jerking going on in this topic is hardly warranted considering that video isn’t an accurate depiction.

We did this path at least 5 times using this very method and never had a problem with us dying. The spiders do spawn but we dont get hit due to the reflects and even when the ele/warrior run of of the reflects due to the GS they still dodge enough to not die. This is a very realistic way on how the fight works since this is how we do it..

Spent the last couple of hours trying to beat that boss with guildies, not even the slightest luck. The other two paths, not problem.
Let’s just call it what it is, broken. Infinitely respawning anything, cannot be intended.

I’m guessing something just fell off the wagon when they tweaked it.
I’m just going to have to manage with the other two paths for my armor set.

Yoh.8469:

Spent the last couple of hours trying to beat that boss with guildies, not even the slightest luck. The other two paths, not problem.
Let’s just call it what it is, broken. Infinitely respawning anything, cannot be intended.

I’m guessing something just fell off the wagon when they tweaked it.
I’m just going to have to manage with the other two paths for my armor set.

If your doing it with guildies im assuming you know each others builds, try and chain reflects/ projectile protection and go into melee range. unless your running pure necro/warrior you should have enough to get through it no problem

Well, this sounds horrible. Why would they make an update to the Spider Queen Tree, when there are a ton of other dungeon issues to address? Thanks for the warning, folks.

So that video was informative, but didn’t improve my view of this boss much. It’s a DPS race. You have about 25 seconds before the spawns really start. Sure, after that you can block the spiderling shots with reflect/block walls and try to kite around the bigger silvers, (Does it summon Deathtouch spiders or whatever the stone-inflicting ones are?) but the adds will quickly ramp up to overwhelm any group that’s already having trouble killing the boss in under 35 seconds.

Would you like us to post a video to show how we kill this boss after waiting for spiders to spawn? I really do not understand whats so bad about killing stuff fast…

Ather.5091:

Would you like us to post a video to show how we kill this boss after waiting for spiders to spawn? I really do not understand whats so bad about killing stuff fast…

They don’t even have the excuse of gear.. you can’t crit on that boss.. PVT works just as well.. so killing this boss fast is pretty much only about using the right weapon set up. Not being a hammer warrior, a mace guardian, a staff ele, a shortbow thief, staff necro, staff or gs mesmer.. as long as it has Power (which knight and soldier gear have) it can do it. Just pick up an efficient weapon. Is it TOO MUCH to ask ? To have a decent weapon set in inv? Should any content in this game be friendly to people who want to run the worst build, the worst weapon set in the worst situation ?

The mentality that permeates this community renders me nauseous. Am I really playing a MMORPG or a theme park where people want to be able to complete content just by pressing 111?

I don’t understand how people are having so many issues with general dungeons mechanics. Sigh one of these days people will understand something. But the best advise I can give if just bring proper equiptment and utilities to said fights.

Ather.5091:

Would you like us to post a video to show how we kill this boss after waiting for spiders to spawn? I really do not understand whats so bad about killing stuff fast…

I’d actually be a bit interested in it, but I’m worried that the essential factor is: your group is heavily damage invested, so you can clear mobs very quickly. More on why that bothers me in a minute.

In a situation with perpetually summoned adds, your DPS has to cross a certain mandatory tipping point. If you can kill things more quickly than they summon, eventually you can win. If you can’t, it doesn’t matter how much support or control you have coming out of your allies, eventually the mobs will pile up too high and overwhelm your group. Which means that now damage isn’t a good strategy, it’s the only strategy, and that just seems boring. And also punishing to anyone that thought Control was a valid role in this game because apparently it isn’t?

I’m not trying to criticize players here: you have found the solution to the boss fight, good job. I’m mostly criticizing ANet because I’ve always thought that a DPS race removed the skill component from gameplay in favour of a subtle gear check. And weren’t we trying to get away from that with GW2?

Edit: I guess I have to address the “PVT gear is good enough” thing. Is that PVT exotic? And what about the armor sets in the game that don’t have power or condition damage as a primary? Do those characters just have to hope others can carry them through because there are no other strategies…?

Softspoken.2410:

Ather.5091:

Would you like us to post a video to show how we kill this boss after waiting for spiders to spawn? I really do not understand whats so bad about killing stuff fast…

I’d actually be a bit interested in it, but I’m worried that the essential factor is: your group is heavily damage invested, so you can clear mobs very quickly. More on why that bothers me in a minute.

In a situation with perpetually summoned adds, your DPS has to cross a certain mandatory tipping point. If you can kill things more quickly than they summon, eventually you can win. If you can’t, it doesn’t matter how much support or control you have coming out of your allies, eventually the mobs will pile up too high and overwhelm your group. Which means that now damage isn’t a good strategy, it’s the only strategy, and that just seems boring. And also punishing to anyone that thought Control was a valid role in this game because apparently it isn’t?

I’m not trying to criticize players here: you have found the solution to the boss fight, good job. I’m mostly criticizing ANet because I’ve always thought that a DPS race removed the skill component from gameplay in favour of a subtle gear check. And weren’t we trying to get away from that with GW2?

Edit: I guess I have to address the “PVT gear is good enough” thing. Is that PVT exotic? And what about the armor sets in the game that don’t have power or condition damage as a primary? Do those characters just have to hope others can carry them through because there are no other strategies…?

What??

Softspoken.2410:

Edit: I guess I have to address the “PVT gear is good enough” thing. Is that PVT exotic? And what about the armor sets in the game that don’t have power or condition damage as a primary? Do those characters just have to hope others can carry them through because there are no other strategies…?

Power doesn’t have to be primary although it helps. Having it as one of the three main stat though is absolutely essential.
If your gear isn’t one of these :
Berserker, Knight, Soldier, Rampager, Cleric, Valkyrie, Cavalier, Carrion.

The game tells you it’s time to rethink your build because it’s worthless in PVE (most of the ones I mentioned are too but just less than the ones not mentioned.). Totally worthless. This boss isn’t the only problem for you. If you’re one of these necromancers that are clad in rabid (precision, toughness, cond) with no power stat boost, you will be absolutely useless in parts like Ascalonian Catacombs burrows in Path 1 and 3. Your ability to destroy burrows is nil. More than one player in gear like shaman or rabid can make the run feel 10 times more painful.
If you absolutely want to do don “tanky” type of gear, you are free to do so within some reasonable limits. Which means at least having Power boosted, no matter what.

If you want condition damage then you can only really chose between rampager and carrion if you care about efficiency and not being dead weight to your party. Making the choice of running conditions is already a kitten choice in PVE, if you do so at least have the decency of picking the gear that boosts power too. And keeping a spare set of weapons that scale for power rather than condition when you need to fight things like this TA boss and destroy structures like in AC.

Since this thread is getting pretty pointless, lemme just sum it up:

ITT: People complaining a boss has mechanics and they have to adjust their build/playstyle to overcome them.

/thread

Bright.9160:

Nikaido.3457:

And they aren’t made for kittens who don’t adapt their utility bar for the fight too. Your guardian is not.. running shield of the avenger ? mesmer.. doesn’t run focus? it’s time for a kick.

This has always amazed me… The fact that some people simply refuse to change weapons according to situations and then complain it’s too hard/not doable…

Not to mention, the damage between a full zerk warrior and a PVT warrior is a whopping 0 because the only thing that matters on the boss (like Nikaido already pointed out) is power. Crit doesn’t hit, so doesn’t do extra damage either.

The only difference you might get is people not using Might stacks or stacking Bloodlust, but that’s it.

This is one the only bosses in game where you’re ‘better’ off running PVT gear and PVT will actually give you more survivability.

This boss does actually take condition damage doesn’t he? So having a Carrion or Rampager Build toon might actually speed it up, as it has max Power and Condition at the same time?

Ratty.5176:

This boss does actually take condition damage doesn’t he? So having a Carrion or Rampager Build toon might actually speed it up, as it has max Power and Condition at the same time?

Yes, it would speed things up, if you run something that does condi damage.

But, that gear would render you pretty useless in any other part of the game, so I don’t see why you would bother.

If you actually look at Nikaido’s video again, you’ll see the only conditions we apply is burning (from the ele’s Fiery Greatsword), Vulnerability, the occasional cripple/Chill/confusion (no idea where the chill comes from though), and a sometimes poison from the reflected projectiles.

So, yes, condi damage would make you kill the boss faster, but seeing how getting a condi set just for this boss is pretty pointless, I don’t see why bother when a bunch of power builds would kill him just as fast anyway.

Bright.9160:

Ratty.5176:

This boss does actually take condition damage doesn’t he? So having a Carrion or Rampager Build toon might actually speed it up, as it has max Power and Condition at the same time?

Yes, it would speed things up, if you run something that does condi damage.

But, that gear would render you pretty useless in any other part of the game, so I don’t see why you would bother.

If you actually look at Nikaido’s video again, you’ll see the only conditions we apply is burning (from the ele’s Fiery Greatsword), Vulnerability, the occasional cripple/Chill/confusion (no idea where the chill comes from though), and a sometimes poison from the reflected projectiles.

So, yes, condi damage would make you kill the boss faster, but seeing how getting a condi set just for this boss is pretty pointless, I don’t see why bother when a bunch of power builds would kill him just as fast anyway.

I would disagree on the full power build killing just as fast, A power build relies on Prec/Crit for most of it’s damage, a condition build though lower in damage does do far more damage than a Power build with crit removed.

I personally don’t have an issue with one condition build character in a team, as long as your not hitting cap your fine, and there are places where conditions are good.

My main feeling, it’s like anything there are places where things aren’t the best choice, It’s why I have all weapons available for my Ele. Most Condition users should be aware of this and possibly have a second set of gear for situations where their build doesn’t really work. The only real place being the burrows on P3 AC. Path 1 they can guard Hodgins, almost every class can do this job.

did it with 2 pugs today, took us like 45 min (reset fight 2-3 times cause we thought we aggroed spiders on the back by mistake, guess not).
Spiders actually stop coming after u kill like 10-15 silvers + trash, we used 2 guardians+mesmer+ranger for reflection and it was a very annoying and frustrating fight

Me and my guildies did this dungeon path earlier today, we tried:
1. having 2-3 guardians using wall of reflection and sanctuary (spiders ignored both)
2. hitting the boss from a range (aggroed the entire room as soon as we made contact with the boss)
3.Killing all the spiders (killed about 6 entire rooms full before deciding that they simply spawned endlessly)

None of which worked. The only way we could complete it is by having everyone circle strafe the boss while using some form of maintainable speed boost. If you do this, even if it’s only a 15% boost, you can out run the spiders’ attacks and focus on the boss.

striker.3704:

Me and my guildies did this dungeon path earlier today, we tried:
1. having 2-3 guardians using wall of reflection and sanctuary (spiders ignored both)
2. hitting the boss from a range (aggroed the entire room as soon as we made contact with the boss)
3.Killing all the spiders (killed about 6 entire rooms full before deciding that they simply spawned endlessly)

None of which worked. The only way we could complete it is by having everyone circle strafe the boss while using some form of maintainable speed boost. If you do this, even if it’s only a 15% boost, you can out run the spiders’ attacks and focus on the boss.

Whoru? 2-3 guardians and you couldn’t pull this off?

• Stand in melee range
• Chain wall of reflection
• Stand inside the wall
• Profit

It is interesting to see how some people in this thread are ranting about how easy the boss is to kill if you just do A, bring utility skill B, use weapon C, have trait D, have enough dps and melee the boss etc etc.

Its all very well and good if you are doing this as a coordinated guild run, but to expect a pug to meet all these requirements is simply unrealistic. This is especially true after a change in the boss mechanics when the new knowledge on how to effectively do the boss hasn’t filter down to the average player yet.

Cymric.7368:

It is interesting to see how some people in this thread are ranting about how easy the boss is to kill if you just do A, bring utility skill B, use weapon C, have trait D, have enough dps and melee the boss etc etc.

Its all very well and good if you are doing this as a coordinated guild run, but to expect a pug to meet all these requirements is simply unrealistic. This is especially true after a change in the boss mechanics when the new knowledge on how to effectively do the boss hasn’t filter down to the average player yet.

So why should people feel entitled to sleepwalk their way through any encounter without a bare minimum of coordination and group effort? All you have to do is pick a decent weapon and use a couple key utility skills. That’s it. If you can’t be bothered to do that, maybe you don’t deserve to complete the dungeon?

Broadicea.8294:

Cymric.7368:

It is interesting to see how some people in this thread are ranting about how easy the boss is to kill if you just do A, bring utility skill B, use weapon C, have trait D, have enough dps and melee the boss etc etc.

Its all very well and good if you are doing this as a coordinated guild run, but to expect a pug to meet all these requirements is simply unrealistic. This is especially true after a change in the boss mechanics when the new knowledge on how to effectively do the boss hasn’t filter down to the average player yet.

So why should people feel entitled to sleepwalk their way through any encounter without a bare minimum of coordination and group effort? All you have to do is pick a decent weapon and use a couple key utility skills. That’s it. If you can’t be bothered to do that, maybe you don’t deserve to complete the dungeon?

He has a point here, and it’s that pugs are kittened.
You may be doing all the right things, but how the hell can you get 4 other people you’ve never met before to do it? The thing is, these dungeons are supposed to be able to be done by any setup, but in this case, you’re asking pugs who, a great deal of, are rocking pvt sets, signets and magic find… to do something that requires them to get their kitten together. It doesn’t happen as often as it should T_T. Other day I just had to solo the tree because the rest of them are not willing to wear a decent set of gear or change up utilities. Imo they shouldnt cater dungeons to that slacker mentality, but they do for all the others, why make an acception for TA -.- now it’s only worth doing with a team of friends/guildies.

dude that path is impossible i have been there you just cant kill that tree with all those spiders… that is just drunk…. they need to nerf that thing

Biohazard.7523:

dude that path is impossible i have been there you just cant kill that tree with all those spiders… that is just drunk…. they need to nerf that thing

Its very much possible, just stand in melee range with decent weapons/ power based sets (even PVT works for this fight) and then coordinate reflects with your group, as long as everyone is protected its fine..

Bright.9160:

striker.3704:

Me and my guildies did this dungeon path earlier today, we tried:
1. having 2-3 guardians using wall of reflection and sanctuary (spiders ignored both)
2. hitting the boss from a range (aggroed the entire room as soon as we made contact with the boss)
3.Killing all the spiders (killed about 6 entire rooms full before deciding that they simply spawned endlessly)

None of which worked. The only way we could complete it is by having everyone circle strafe the boss while using some form of maintainable speed boost. If you do this, even if it’s only a 15% boost, you can out run the spiders’ attacks and focus on the boss.

Whoru? 2-3 guardians and you couldn’t pull this off?

• Stand in melee range
• Chain wall of reflection
• Stand inside the wall
• Profit

Yeah we did stand inside it, the projectiles still hit us.

striker.3704:

Yeah we did stand inside it, the projectiles still hit us.

I’m sorry but had to have done something wrong. If you are relying on Wall of Reflection or Temporal Curtain’s reflective abilities, you need to be on or directly adjacent to is (touching the little box on the floor on higher settings) to be fully protected from the projectiles. Other than that, it really is not that hard to dps down with adequate reflects/projectile blocks.

Delay.6908:

Its very much possible, just stand in melee range with decent weapons/ power based sets (even PVT works for this fight) and then coordinate reflects with your group, as long as everyone is protected its fine..

Not very much possible. The requirement since the new update does not sound like an ideal GW2 dungeon to me.

Geekfox.4267:

Delay.6908:

Its very much possible, just stand in melee range with decent weapons/ power based sets (even PVT works for this fight) and then coordinate reflects with your group, as long as everyone is protected its fine..

Not very much possible. The requirement since the new update does not sound like an ideal GW2 dungeon to me.

The requirement since the new update is that you use your skills and adapt to the encounter.

What would the ideal GW2 dungeon be to you then? Something you can run through spamming your autoattack and not bothering with your utility skills?

If you can’t handle the fact you have to prepare and adapt for a boss encounter in a dungeon, you don’t deserve to complete said dungeon in my opinion.

Bright.9160:

The requirement since the new update is that you use your skills and adapt to the encounter.

What would the ideal GW2 dungeon be to you then? Something you can run through spamming your autoattack and not bothering with your utility skills?

If you can’t handle the fact you have to prepare and adapt for a boss encounter in a dungeon, you don’t deserve to complete said dungeon in my opinion.

Thank you for replying by posting your unhelpful advise. Having been through several dungeon instances other than Twilight Arbor, I can proudly say that I deserve to complete other dungeons.

Geekfox.4267:

Thank you for replying by posting your unhelpful advise. Having been through several dungeon instances other than Twilight Arbor, I can proudly say that I deserve to complete other dungeons.

Well, since your reply to the helpful advise Delay gave you was “No, it’s not possible”, I didn’t think any constructive advise was going to help you.

After reading this I decided to run TA yesterday and spent a while in there on all paths. Forgot how fun of a dungeon it is.

On topic, wall, soa + feed back and burn it down. The tree on that path has very little health points and it should be dead before the reflect cycle ends. Once it’s dead there is a good chance that people will die unless they bolt for the exit but by then you have the prize.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

After reading this I decided to run TA yesterday and spent a while in there on all paths. Forgot how fun of a dungeon it is.

On topic, wall, soa + feed back and burn it down. The tree on that path has very little health points and it should be dead before the reflect cycle ends. Once it’s dead there is a good chance that people will die unless they bolt for the exit but by then you have the prize.

Yeah, they made a full video of one the F/U path they did to prove this thread wrong. It wasn’t the one that Nikaido posted, but at the end of the video they all start running and screaming ‘OMG GET OUT OF HERE’ because they’re getting murdered by the swamp of spiders…

I would post the full video, but I wasn’t on the run, and it has the voice recording of the players involved, so I don’t know if they are comfortable with that being posted on here.

Just to give you an idea, it was a 12min run with a couple of screwups. If that run were perfect, it would’ve been 10min ish.

Bright.9160:

Well, since your reply to the helpful advise Delay gave you was “No, it’s not possible”, I didn’t think any constructive advise was going to help you.

Hmm ok. I’ll go find a party with a Guardian, Mesmer, Elemental and a Warrior to replicate what’s been done from the blurry video posted above.

Geekfox.4267:

Bright.9160:

Well, since your reply to the helpful advise Delay gave you was “No, it’s not possible”, I didn’t think any constructive advise was going to help you.

Hmm ok. I’ll go find a party with a Guardian, Mesmer, Elemental and a Warrior to replicate what’s been done from the blurry video posted above.

I can give you a full video of the run in HD, but it has the voices of the people involved, so I don’t know if they’d like that. I’ll post on our forums and ask if they’re ok with it.