Guild Wars 2

In Twillight Arbor:
First up-up path I got 60 tokens
First forw-up path I got 45 tokens
Second up-up I got 15 tokens
Third up-up I got 8 tokens
First forw-forw (dont remember but I think 4 tokens)
Second forw-up path I got 5 tokens

What is up with that? O_ô

Well meanwhile some people (most of the party) are getting 60 even on second runs. Better fix that.

P.S.

They said you should get 60 on every first run on a path right? Not seing that.

the DR system lasts for how long? like 30 mins? 1-2 hrs?

Diminished returns? I haven’t ran a dungeon in over a week. Tried AC explorer path 2 and only got 15 tears. Went to CoF explorer path 2 and only got 6 carvings. Either these diminishing returns last longer than a week or there is a flaw in the system. How can you answer a post with 3 words and no further information? To the thousands of other players out there wondering why they are now getting even less tokens with this “improved system”. There is still (over 7hrs) no answer on what is going on other than “Diminished Returns system.”

Edit: Also, If 3 other people in my group got 60 tokens, why am I the only one that got 6?

Seems to me like a whole day. And it doesn’t work as they said in update notes. I didn’t get 60 tokens for every first path.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Diminished Returns system.

Shouldn’t this system only work if you are doing the same path over and over again?
Whats the point in doing a new path, if you still get less rewards?

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Diminished Returns system.

You mean to tell me you’re applying DR AND the new system?

So now people are punished for clearing a route too quickly and get their daily bonus tokens reduced because they’re too proficient at every path of a dungeon?

I still dont get it. DR or not. Did you guys get 60 for every first path?

ccastiel.6931:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Diminished Returns system.

Shouldn’t this system only work if you are doing the same path over and over again?
Whats the point in doing a new path, if you still get less rewards?

Pretty sure the patch notes stated exactly that. No idea what is up with Robert’s response.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Diminished Returns system.

Sure it is working like intented? We were doing Arah for hours (because we took a break to eat and whatnot) and it was all of our 1st try on the path yet one of us got 15, 3 of us got 45 and one got 60 shards.

Yes, patch notes said if you can complete all 3 chains in one day you will recieve 180 tokens. So something is wrong

spreadsheets.9805:

ccastiel.6931:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Diminished Returns system.

Shouldn’t this system only work if you are doing the same path over and over again?
Whats the point in doing a new path, if you still get less rewards?

Pretty sure the patch notes stated exactly that. No idea what is up with Robert’s response.

Perhaps he’s exasperated from getting assaulted on all sides over the current makeup of dungeons.

JonPeters.5630:

All rewards are susceptible to our code that is dealing with people who are speed clearing dungeons. If you find yourself getting less rewards consider whether or not your rate of dungeon completion is extremely high. This did not get reset with the patch.

If you think you are running at a fairly reasonable pace post all of the chains you have run and the times to complete and we will file it to try and figure out if it is a bug. Please post accurate times, otherwise we cannot determine if there are in fact bugs in the system.

Thanks,

Jon

There is some miscommunication then. Roberts patch notes said we can get 180 tokens from the 3 paths of a dungeon in one day. So is this a false statement? If not how long is the duration until you get the full reward?

Thanks for your help.

I just ran CoF explore (Magg path) and received 45 tokens for first clear. I know we cleared it in under 30 minutes, because food buffs were still up. Does this mean that we cleared it too fast and were penalized 15 tokens?

Tharjax.9068:

Yes, patch notes said if you can complete all 3 chains in one day you will recieve 180 tokens. So something is wrong

Maybe thats exactly what they meant – ONE DAY. So if you run three paths one after another you won’t get 180 but 60+45+15 or something like that based on DR system.

So i guess run one path, take 2 hours break, run another, take 2 hours break run third… Hmm. Is that how it works?

I haven’t tried the changes yet, but from what I see in these forums, even if the DR system is working as intended, the fact that it’s confusing so many players may be indicative of another kind of problem with the system.

Mightili.2514:

Tharjax.9068:

Yes, patch notes said if you can complete all 3 chains in one day you will recieve 180 tokens. So something is wrong

Maybe thats exactly what they meant – ONE DAY. So if you run three paths one after another you won’t get 180 but 60+45+15 or something like that based on DR system.

So i guess run one path, take 2 hours break, run another, take 2 hours break run third… Hmm. Is that how it works?

This is why we need clear communication on the DR system.

JonPeters.5630:

If you think you are running at a fairly reasonable pace post all of the chains you have run and the times to complete and we will file it to try and figure out if it is a bug. Please post accurate times, otherwise we cannot determine if there are in fact bugs in the system.

Arah path 3. We did not speed run at all (took hours). I’ve explained this on 2 posts already but here you go again. One of our party members got 60 shards along with achievement. One only got 15 shards, rest 45 and none of us got the achievement for completing that path. First dungeon of the day and never done that path before.

oh wow so I guess we only should do 1 run of ea path to get the full reward everyday so we can actually get the 60 of the next day and dont get DR? oh noes

Shouldn’t this system work 100% if:

1. I haven’t ran a dungeon in over a week
2. Everyone else in the party received 60 tokens
3. Story mode has been completed

I qualified with all of the above. Still received 15 tokens out of my first AC Explorer and 6 tokens on my CoF explorer run immediately after. So rather then going in circles here, can we get an actual answer as to what is going on?

JonPeters.5630:

All rewards are susceptible to our code that is dealing with people who are speed clearing dungeons. If you find yourself getting less rewards consider whether or not your rate of dungeon completion is extremely high. This did not get reset with the patch.

If you think you are running at a fairly reasonable pace post all of the chains you have run and the times to complete and we will file it to try and figure out if it is a bug. Please post accurate times, otherwise we cannot determine if there are in fact bugs in the system.

Thanks,

Jon

I am a bit confused here. Which one of this is correct:

4) Last week, to limit the most extreme cases of dungeon speed-clearing, we introduced a system to limit rewards for rapidly repeating dungeon clears. However, a bug in that system caused it to impact more players than intended. This week, we’re updating the system to not impact clearing different chains of the same dungeon. We’ll continue to evaluate this system in coming weeks.

DR wont impact different paths, or if our finishing rate is fast, it will? Your post says the second, patch notes, say the 1st.

Why penalize people who are skilled and steamroll through a dungeon? Why penalize people who like to play the same dungoen over and over? Its their time. Noone gets hurt if they get some skin a few days earlier than people who play less. This is one of the most redicilous mechanics I found in a MMO so far.

Our runs were atleast about 40 minutes apart (finish time), with the first run (The second of the day counting the story mode CM I did around 2am) netting me 45. The second one netting me 30 while the entirety of the rest of my party got 60 on both. So no speed clears, first time on every route, pretty much first run of the day too.

Just did all 3 paths of twilight arbor: (Up → Up. Forward → Up. Forward → Forward). I received 60 – 45 – 30 as well. The runs took 40-45 mins each so I would not expect diminished returns, especially having done separate paths. I thought that it would be 60 per 1st path per day?

Other people received the full 60 each. Except 1 person who received 6 tokens per path…

Did 3 paths just now, all 3 paths of Twilight Arbor, one after the other.

Two people in the party got the full 180 tokens, two people got 60+45+30, and one person got 18 (6+6+6).

There is definitely a bug. Also why would you put diminishing returns on the first clear of a path? That’s so unfair… Basically saying we should afk for a while before we kill end bosses if we’re too fast.

Why are you punishing players for being proficient at the game and “clearing things too quickly”… this is a very stupid thing to put in a video game.

“Hey bro, you’re too good at the game… I’m going to penalize you for that.”

… huh???
-
I’m very disappointed in this decision.

Jasher.6580:

Why are you punishing players for being proficient at the game and “clearing things too quickly”… this is a very stupid thing to put in a video game.

“Hey bro, you’re too good at the game… I’m going to penalize you for that.”

… huh???
-
I’m very disappointed in this decision.

It wasn’t so much being skilled at the game that was letting people clear CoF Path 2 in 20 minutes. It was exploiting.

Jasher.6580:

Why are you punishing players for being proficient at the game and “clearing things too quickly”… this is a very stupid thing to put in a video game.

“Hey bro, you’re too good at the game… I’m going to penalize you for that.”

… huh???
-
I’m very disappointed in this decision.

My point exactly. If I have an awsome group I want to have an advantage not be punished.

Wouldn’t it be helpful to make the Diminished Returns system a part of the UI that players can actually see, rather than an invisible flag that is effectively hidden information until the dungeon is over (by which point a player has invested a significant amount of time and effort, and really doesn’t deserve to be penalized for it)?

I think it would help with bug reports and prevent a lot of player frustration/anger if there was, say, a small status effect applied to each player on entering a dungeon, with a tooltip that said something like: “You will receive [xx]% of the full reward for this dungeon. Further Diminished Returns will take effect if the dungeon is cleared in less than [30m, counting down to zero].”

As a player, I can only even make a guess as to whether or not I’m receiving diminished rewards due to the system as intended or due to a bug. And I have no way of knowing whether my diminished rewards are being diminished by the correct amount. Even in the ideal case where there are no bugs with the system, I think that it’s only fair to let the player see what reward they can expect to receive at the end. Nobody should have to wait until after they’ve already completed a dungeon to find out whether they qualify for full or partial rewards.

SinDantes.3417:

It wasn’t so much being skilled at the game that was letting people clear CoF Path 2 in 20 minutes. It was exploiting.

So because there is an exploitable loophole which they can’t seem to figure out how to “patch”… they lambaste you for being efficient? Right now, only the last chest drops tokens… I see no reason for them to keep this awful system of diminished returns on “speed clears”.

It’s an abominable system and it punishes good players which is short-sighted and pointless.

SinDantes.3417:

Jasher.6580:

Why are you punishing players for being proficient at the game and “clearing things too quickly”… this is a very stupid thing to put in a video game.

“Hey bro, you’re too good at the game… I’m going to penalize you for that.”

… huh???
-
I’m very disappointed in this decision.

It wasn’t so much being skilled at the game that was letting people clear CoF Path 2 in 20 minutes. It was exploiting.

Don’t be so ignorant. Cof is/was not the only dungeon being cleared in under 30 minutes.

I do say that the game could really benefit from some pubs being in closer contact with the dev team, to report exploits as such. I myself have been sending bug reports for the CM exploits for example, but I’m willing to bet 99% of the people are either to lazy, ignorant of the fact that it is an exploit, or selfish to report it. Thats why you get some testers!

Jasher.6580:

SinDantes.3417:

It wasn’t so much being skilled at the game that was letting people clear CoF Path 2 in 20 minutes. It was exploiting.

So because there is an exploitable loophole which they can’t seem to figure out how to “patch”… they lambaste you for being efficient? Right now, only the last chest drops tokens… I see no reason for them to keep this awful system of diminished returns on “speed clears”.

It’s an abominable system and it punishes good players which is short-sighted and pointless.

It reminds me of a certain stress system from a certain Korean MMO. In other words artificially lengthening the game by reducing rewards, punishing you for going to fast, and adding trash mobs that are tougher than bosses.

Can we get exact specifics about the intended behaviour of dungeon rewards? It seems like the “alternating between two chains” or “do no more than 2 runs in 60 minutes” is not really the intended behaviour? I’d like to see times and exact details about when you start getting reduced rewards, and by how much they should be reduced.

There is no reason to punish people for clearing your content too fast. If you can’t design dungeons that take a decent amount of time while not using large hp pools as a crutch, then you should probably be replaced by a more competent designer.

Brutal Arts.6307:

Jasher.6580:

SinDantes.3417:

It wasn’t so much being skilled at the game that was letting people clear CoF Path 2 in 20 minutes. It was exploiting.

So because there is an exploitable loophole which they can’t seem to figure out how to “patch”… they lambaste you for being efficient? Right now, only the last chest drops tokens… I see no reason for them to keep this awful system of diminished returns on “speed clears”.

It’s an abominable system and it punishes good players which is short-sighted and pointless.

It reminds me of a certain stress system from a certain Korean MMO. In other words artificially lengthening the game by reducing rewards, punishing you for going to fast, and adding trash mobs that are tougher than bosses.

Rewards have been increased.

DaedalusDragon.3754:

There is no reason to punish people for clearing your content too fast. If you can’t design dungeons that take a decent amount of time while not using large hp pools as a crutch, then you should probably be replaced by a more competent designer.

I’ve done all of AC/CM/TA so far, which of these only uses large hp polls as a crutch?

This system is so broken and stupid. Way to turn off people from your game. I am sorry but I will no longer spend 2-3 hours on each path just to go from 60 to 45 to 15. F that! I can just craft my exotics and look generic.

ref.8196:

Brutal Arts.6307:

Jasher.6580:

SinDantes.3417:

It wasn’t so much being skilled at the game that was letting people clear CoF Path 2 in 20 minutes. It was exploiting.

So because there is an exploitable loophole which they can’t seem to figure out how to “patch”… they lambaste you for being efficient? Right now, only the last chest drops tokens… I see no reason for them to keep this awful system of diminished returns on “speed clears”.

It’s an abominable system and it punishes good players which is short-sighted and pointless.

It reminds me of a certain stress system from a certain Korean MMO. In other words artificially lengthening the game by reducing rewards, punishing you for going to fast, and adding trash mobs that are tougher than bosses.

Rewards have been increased.

DaedalusDragon.3754:

There is no reason to punish people for clearing your content too fast. If you can’t design dungeons that take a decent amount of time while not using large hp pools as a crutch, then you should probably be replaced by a more competent designer.

I’ve done all of AC/CM/TA so far, which of these only uses large hp polls as a crutch?

Every trash mob in all of them. How many of them involved a strategy that required more than everybody attacking at the same time and dodging attacks?

DaedalusDragon.3754:

There is no reason to punish people for clearing your content too fast. If you can’t design dungeons that take a decent amount of time while not using large hp pools as a crutch, then you should probably be replaced by a more competent designer.

+ 1 million

ANet, if your goal with these DR systems (the dungeon one, but also the loot and event ones) is to make the game much less fun, bravo. You’ve succeeded admirably.

If not, get rid of them because the only thing they’re doing is making people hate the game and making it much less fun.

i’m Necromancer LV 80 race syvali
name : Madame Mushroom

In Twillight Arbor

First round : answer 1 > 1 – I got 45 tokens

Second round : answer 1 > 2 – I got 30 tokens

Third round : answer 2 – I got 30 tokens

but my friend got 60 token all round -0-

plz fix

DaedalusDragon.3754:

Every trash mob in all of them. How many of them involved a strategy that required more than everybody attacking at the same time and dodging attacks?

Quite a few encounters with non-boss Elite enemies are more easily won when you choose to attack different targets to split their focus and dilute incoming damage, choose to soak up attacks so that the rest of the party can focus a bunch of AoE on them, sometimes it’s more effective to ball up and defend/heal/buff/debuff through the attack, sometimes it’s more effective to drop back to ranged and kite/snipe, etc. All of this is dependent on your party composition/playstyle, what sort of enemies you’re fighting, and the specific situation from moment-to-moment, rather than a predefined “Do this, then they do this, and then you do that, and then you win” sort of ‘strategy’.

I mean, ranged focus-fire and kiting works, at least most of the time, and you can certainly use it as a crutch to make it through encounters without much risk of dying, as long as you don’t get overrun. But it’s rarely the most efficient or most effective way to clear an encounter. I think most fights with Elite enemies average out to something like 20-30 seconds per enemy, in most (good) groups I’ve played with – longer, if you’re on the backfoot, and shorter if you’re running like a well-oiled machine. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable amount of health for enemies to have in an Explorable dungeon.

I don’t understand why people are punished for clearing dungeons in a timely manner. If it’s not from some bug or skipping content I don’t see a reason to punish people for using teamwork and ability to speed through your dungeon.

Sonork.2916:

I don’t understand why people are punished for clearing dungeons in a timely manner. If it’s not from some bug or skipping content I don’t see a reason to punish people for using teamwork and ability to speed through your dungeon.

I’m not going to explain this in every thread posted about it..

I only received 45 dungeon tokens for completing HotW (butcher path) the for the FIRST time today. I didn’t even do any OTHER dungeons, just logged on post-patch, ran the whole instance, and ended up with only 45 tokens.

Crater.1625:

DaedalusDragon.3754:

Every trash mob in all of them. How many of them involved a strategy that required more than everybody attacking at the same time and dodging attacks?

Quite a few encounters with non-boss Elite enemies are more easily won when you choose to attack different targets to split their focus and dilute incoming damage, choose to soak up attacks so that the rest of the party can focus a bunch of AoE on them, sometimes it’s more effective to ball up and defend/heal/buff/debuff through the attack, sometimes it’s more effective to drop back to ranged and kite/snipe, etc. All of this is dependent on your party composition/playstyle, what sort of enemies you’re fighting, and the specific situation from moment-to-moment, rather than a predefined “Do this, then they do this, and then you do that, and then you win” sort of ‘strategy’.

I mean, ranged focus-fire and kiting works, at least most of the time, and you can certainly use it as a crutch to make it through encounters without much risk of dying, as long as you don’t get overrun. But it’s rarely the most efficient or most effective way to clear an encounter. I think most fights with Elite enemies average out to something like 20-30 seconds per enemy, in most (good) groups I’ve played with – longer, if you’re on the backfoot, and shorter if you’re running like a well-oiled machine. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable amount of health for enemies to have in an Explorable dungeon.

Yeah, this @ DaedalusDragon

name : Nomad Ya

In Twillight Arbor

First round : answer 1 > 1 – I got 60 tokens

Second round : answer 1 > 2 – I got 45 tokens

Third round : answer 2 – I got 45 tokens

but my friend got 60 token all round -0-

plz fix

Crater.1625:

DaedalusDragon.3754:

Every trash mob in all of them. How many of them involved a strategy that required more than everybody attacking at the same time and dodging attacks?

Quite a few encounters with non-boss Elite enemies are more easily won when you choose to attack different targets to split their focus and dilute incoming damage, choose to soak up attacks so that the rest of the party can focus a bunch of AoE on them, sometimes it’s more effective to ball up and defend/heal/buff/debuff through the attack, sometimes it’s more effective to drop back to ranged and kite/snipe, etc. All of this is dependent on your party composition/playstyle, what sort of enemies you’re fighting, and the specific situation from moment-to-moment, rather than a predefined “Do this, then they do this, and then you do that, and then you win” sort of ‘strategy’.

I mean, ranged focus-fire and kiting works, at least most of the time, and you can certainly use it as a crutch to make it through encounters without much risk of dying, as long as you don’t get overrun. But it’s rarely the most efficient or most effective way to clear an encounter. I think most fights with Elite enemies average out to something like 20-30 seconds per enemy, in most (good) groups I’ve played with – longer, if you’re on the backfoot, and shorter if you’re running like a well-oiled machine. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable amount of health for enemies to have in an Explorable dungeon.

The problem I see with that is that those are all “deal damage and don’t get hit” strategies. Those strategies are fine if they aren’t going for the challenging aspect and instead want their dungeons to be hard in a more simplistic fashion. I’m talking about strategies like separating enemies more effectively, LoS the enemies for some attacks, moving enemies into traps, focus shifting the enemy, and many others that don’t revolve around dealing damage for ten minutes and dodge attacks… that was pve up until that point, and I would like a more interesting challenge.